The Alienist

He is absolutely gorgeous !

I thought it was directed by Cary Fukunaga.

It was, R2.

However, Fukunaga had some "scheduling conflict," so it was taken over by Verbruggen.

Strange, but no one would guess what the series is actually about, just based on the title.

I read the book years ago. It was good but basically just another serial killer story and there have been way too many of those.

What channel this be on?

It's on TNT, R6.

They've been promoting it like crazy, but there doesn't seem to be a date set for the premiere.

All I know is that Jakob Verbruggen is smoking hot!

Is he gay?

Is he uncut?✂️

Hopefully, R9!

He's like a mix of Jerry Oconnell and DJ from Roseanne.

This is kind of raunchy subject matter for TNT.

I'm surprised that they're airing it.

I wonder if that's what's causing the delay in the premiere?

I enjoyed the book and the sequel. I'm not sure if the author wrote a third book. I'm not sure if this needs to be a series though. A good 5-6 episode miniseries, yes.

It is a mini series, R13.

8 episodes.

Thanks, r14. The trailer I saw for it before "IT" made it seem like a regular series.

I love Luke Evans. I'll be watching

More discussion at the link.

Loved the book. Not sure if the material can be addressed on regular cable TV. Excited to Watch.

Love Luke too. And this high is h a f. Post dick pics please.

I'll be watching

The first episode aired as a "sneak preview" after the SAG awards. It's well made, but (despite the novel having been high original at the time) feels totally derivative and like a million other things I've already seen.

R21 loved the book when it came out but you're right the whole serial killer thing's been done and overdone now.

And who is that washed up has been as the female lead? She looks familiar in a loserish kind of way.

Dakota Mainning. I don’t think she is a fave but she is well known here, dear.

Not to give away any spoilers...but there's stuff in the novel's plot the (ignorant) public will see as re-emphasizing outdated (and incorrects) gay stereotypes...

That makes me uncomfortable.

Will definitely be watching. For once, I’ll skip the book as I want to be surprised at the final revelation. Thanks for posting this thread to put it on my radar!

Fanning. Fanning. I’m so dumb.

Premieres tonight!

Preview last night. Looking forward to hearing what you all think.

I just want to see Luke Evans.

I'm so surprised that he's not in the starring role. He's by far, the biggest star they've got on this show.

R30 Maybe they offered it to him, and his schedule didn't allow it.

Gorgeous filming, but the acting is really baaaaaaad.

terrible reviews.

bad casting: miss fanning as usual is a tragic bore, and the lead guy as well....the young one. evid after such a big build up thru the series, the ending and reveal of killer is very meh.....

R24 reread R23 carefully.

The show wasn't bad on the whole, but Dakota is so miscast. She looks and acts so out of place - like a little kid playing dress up.

I'm very impressed by the recreation of 1896 New York City. Wow.

I thought Luke and Daniel Bruhl had great chemistry

Luke was good, at least he has some charisma, as intended by the role, but Daniel Bruhl looks like he's auditioning for the mummy or maybe an extra on The Walking Dead. Dakota is just reading lines and staring into the camera. I loved the book, so I'll continue watching and I also love the recreation of old NY.

I'm a geek for NYC history and based on my research and reading of that period it is exactly what I pictured in my mind. That area beneath the 2nd Ave elevated line in the Lower East Side was where the brothels and prostitutes lived at the time. I like Bruhl and Evans, and am mildly intrigued by the storyline. But I'll be staying just to look at the sets and costumes.

Wasn't expecting much from the cast, but as r39 said, the sets and costumes are spot on. Both of Carr's books are a love letter to New York. If they do the Angel of Darkness as the 2nd season, I think it will be better, as they'll have a more interesting female lead than that leaden Fanning.

Always concurrent threads about a topic to make things confusing.

As to the cast: Evans is spot-on, it's the clever and slightly seedy rich boy from the books, with enough of Evans' personal charisma to make you want more of him.

So far Bruhl hasn't impressed me, he seems lifeless. But he's been so good in other things that I'm not going to write him off, maybe he'll get Dr. Kreizler to grow on us.

Fanning is completely and totally off the mark. The Sara of the book was a smart, tough, daring, fearless, fiercely feminist adult woman in the books... and Fanning plays her as a insecure little girl trying to act tough.

[quote]he'll get Dr. Kreizler to grow on us.

I have an ointment for that.

R35 Shit. A brilliant witty charming yet ball-busting Sara is a huge part of the charm of these books.

I may not even watch....because I don't want the image of the flaccid Fanning ruining my fond memories and imagination.

I'm sort of hoping that Dakota Fanning's interpretation of the character improves. OK. It probably won't.

could someone post the killer's identity so i don't have to watch

R46 The casting agent for the TV show, apparently.

I'll watch. It looks good.

I watched it and will continue to watch.

Is Daniel Brühl uncut as well?

I wonder if this will fill the void Penny Dreadful left?

They better show Daniel and Luke and the guy who plays Theodore nude pretty soon, it moves kind of slowly.

Wouldn’t mind seeing Douglas Smith naked, either.

Jakob has directed London Spy ! I Loved it a

I'd never heard of Luke Evans but I do vaguely remember seeing his name around here. I just watched The Girl On The Train and he was on that and then I watched The Alienist and there he was again, didn't know he would be on it. I read this book years ago and have forgotten who the killer was so it's like watching something new. Didn't recognize Dakota Fanning at all - she reminds me of the girl who plays Angela on Mr. Robot.

It’s been a while since I’ve read the book, but I don’t think the murderer is an already established character. Their identity is not a plot twist. I could be wrong, though.

Scheduling problems, my ass. Cary must have figured that Caleb Carr is due for his #MeToo moment.

[quote] I thought Luke and Daniel Bruhl had great chemistry

I agree. And now I understand why Luke was cast as John Moore. He's a quirky nice guy, which suits Luke's personality. Bruhl is more serious and methodical, which suits his character, as well. Luke is perfect as Bruhl's sidekick.

As for Dakota, she is absolutely wrong for the part. Her acting ability is non-existent, and her accent is so wrong for the period. Completely unbelieveable.

In fact, none of the younger actors are able to muster any sort of period accent. Neither Fanning, nor the Jewish brothers helping Kreizler in the investigation (although one of them is really cute), nor the younger kids playing the various parts in the movie. They're just so unbeileveable as 1896 New Yorkers.

However, the story is very suspenseful, and I do like how they captured the grittiness of the era.

So far, I'm not disappointed with the show, with the exception of the above mentioned issues.

I'm curious as to who the killer will be. I'm thinking the former police chief. When the reporter asked him how he's "spending his time after retirement," there was a brief pause before he answered. He's also very creepy.

Wonder if this will be available on any of the Norwegian streaming services. I think I'll wait and see.

All of the lead actors look really good for their age.

Luke is 38 going on 39, and he looks about right.

But Bruhl is going to be 40 this year. He looks at least 5-10 years younger.

And the actor who plays Roosevelt (Brian Geraghty) is going to be 43 this year! He has such a baby face. Plus, he's really hot.

Brian Geraghty is adorable.

Is he gay also? No mention on his wiki of a wife or girlfriend at 42.

If he is, I wonder if he and Luke hit it off? Although Luke is into latino guys, so Brian might not be his type

I found the premiere quite dull. Something is off about the show but I'm not quite sure what. I liked Evans but I was a bit disappointed with Bruhl's character. And it's really the characters (not the actors) and the writing itself I'm having trouble with. Likewise with the cinematography and the music. Nothing seems very original, and the show's atmosphere is not as distinctive as one might have hoped. I'm not really sure what I'm watching.

I read the novel over two decades ago and like someone mentioned there are certain homophobic elements involved. Especially right at the end. Then again it became apparent already in the premiere that the show itself is certainly not homophobic.

The acting is [bold]FUCKING HORRENDOUS[/bold]. 14-rate telenovela actors attempting gritty period drama, and failing miserably.

Looks great. Not sure yet if the writing's as bad as the acting.

R62, the acting is not horrendous. The show just doesn't know what it wants to be, and the characters suffer from that.

[quote] super stud

Seriously? Sorry, my eyes just rolled out of my head.

You sound like a jealous hater, R64.

I read the book a couple years back and was os looking forward to it. the Dakota character was actually a lot of fun in the book. Too bad someone decided to put Fanning in the role as she's nothing but dull and dullard.

Also all the added brothel storyline involving the Luke character, I don't remember being so prominent in the book so it's just added to spice things up. I don't remember the book being homophobic although some characters were as they didn't want to investigate the murders of dress wearing boy prostitutes.

But the author, Caleb Carr do have some issues as his dad, Lucien Carr, killed a man in 1944 and used the gay panic defense and got his charges reduced from murder to manslaughter . Caleb Carr today vigorously disputed the fact that his dad was gay in a sexual relationship with the guy he killed. He's very defensive about the whole thing so it's clear he has issues with homosexuality so perhaps it comes through in the storyline.

R56, what scheduling problems? And you’re not wrong about the #metoo thing.

After this book was written and it was a big hit, Carr was a writer or director on a short lived series about a family homesteading on some other planet. There was a young girl playing the family’s daughter on the set, very pretty and very young. Like 13-15.

I read in the comments on some website that Carr had gone to her parents and said he loved her and would wait for her to be old enough to marry. Supposedly the parents humored him in some way and played along. The show was cancelled after one season and it seemed like the network found out about this and pulled the plug. The girl continued to act and is an adult actress now. She’s not a big star and still very pretty, but she was incredibly beautiful as a young girl. That comment was later scrubbed BTW as this one may be.

Later Carr said there had been a big fight about the Alienist, he had been trying to make it a movie but they basically wanted to cast it badly and make Sarah Howard the town bicycle for the cast. He was so angry they could never come to an agreement, it dragged on for years and finally the studio gave up. He never would have wanted any of this cast. He must be livid.

I noticed they are carefully not mentioning his name or even that he wrote the book in the promotional materials. In the early 2000’s Carr had botched surgery that ruined his health. My guess is he needs money and sold the rights outright.

The girl is still an actress. Will she out him? Maybe they paid her off so they could go ahead. Anyone with any curiosity must realize it’s very odd that they never mention the author in any interviews.

Carrr’s father was one of the beatniks that hung around with Jack Kerouac back in the 50’s. The father and his wife were constantly drunk and on drugs. They ignored the kids and didn’t feed them. Some of those guys molested their children. I don’t know about Carr but the father picked him out and abused him the most. He talked back and was beaten often. I think it’s likely he may have been sexually abused by someone in that group, if not his own father. He hinted something like that went on in an old interview from years ago. A daughter of another beatnik in that group said her father molested her for years. All the parents were on hard drugs. I read an old comment once from somebody that knew the family. They said all the kids were screwed up but were nice people for the most part. Carr himself has a reputation for being very argumentative but means well. He seems like an Aspie.

The reason I know this stuff is because years ago Carr ran for city council or some such post in his small upstate NY hometown and lost. It got an article or two in The NY Times at the time. I thought that was interesting and googled him to see if he won (he didn’t). But I stated getting hits about the above story. I couldn’t believe it.

Then I started googling his dad. He’s Lucien Carr, who murdered a man and got away with it by claiming the man had made a pass at him and he killed him in a “gay panic” defense, in 1944. He weighted the body and threw it in the Hudson River.

He served a very short sentence. The newspapers at the time made a big deal about how the victim was actually to blame by making a pass at a straight man, but later it was said the victim was probably not gay at all and Carr made it all up. Nobody knows why he really killed him.

The more you read about this family and their circle of friends at that time (the Beats), the more you realize they were all screwed up and all their children suffered. I’m not old enough to remember the Beats, but they sound like some very fucked up and destructive people who were highly glamorized at the time. I know Caleb Carr and other children of the Beats have done numerous interviews saying they despised their parents.

Wow, that's an amazing story, R67. Thanks for sharing.

It would really explain why The Alienist would come across as homophobic. Especially if he was sexually abused as a child.

Some people might be misinterpreting his intentions with this book, although I never actually read it, so I couldn't say.

Caleb Carr was quite handsome.

Carr is (or was) one of those Aspie-type people that has problems keeping a girlfriend and was very retiring. When he was a kid, he and his family would go to their grandparents’ farm every summer where the kids would get enough to eat. There was lots of room to run around and the parents were hungover and slept all day, so the kids loved it there.

When the grandparents died, the next generation inherited the farm I believe. Carr built a house nearby, in the same small town. His relatives lived nearby, at least as of the early 2000’s. He is a historian and built the house the old fashioned way, even the nails were squared shaped like they were in the olden days. He found an architect that specializes in building reproduction houses and had this very nice house built in the middle of nowhere. There was an article about it in the NY Times archive, although I don’t know if it’s still there.

If you want to know what was going on in his life at the time, read the acknowledgements at the ends of his books. He thanked his doctors that helped him through a serious illness. Also read the dedications. I think in one of his later books he thanked the young lady I mentioned at R67.

I also read today he’s working on a sequel to the Alienist.

R71 Thank you for all of this info on Carr...

I guess it makes sense that such a book filled with pain and anger and violence would come from someone who experienced it. I certainly hope he has gotten some help...

Carr has been working on that third book for decades. The Alienist series was always supposed to be a trilogy. The Alienist is told through the voice of John Moore. The Angel of Darkness through Stevie. And the third book (unwritten) is supposed to be through Sara's point of view.

I hope some day we will get it.

Thanks for the gossip on Carr, R-above!

And yeah, I'm reading his "Surrender, New York" right now (NOT impressed so far), and I'm not one bit surprised to hear he lives in small-town upstate NY. Among its other flaws, it absolutely drips with contempt for the small-town locals, who are described and shiftless and useless for generation after generation, and grossly inferior to the narrator's own illustrious and prosperous ancestors. I'd bet real money that Carr's neighbors hate him even more than he hates them, and with better cause.

all the actors are dull as dirt, cept for luke, he has personality.

the youngun playin teddy roosevelt is ridic??? and the alienist is plain vanilla....

how they get these roles???

dumb ass casting

IIRC, he did go to therapy.

If you recall, the premise of The Angel of Darkness was that women also aggressively committed murders and acts of violence. Carr’s theory was that they did it just as often as men, but society refused to admit it and cast women solely in the role of mothers and nurturers. It was common back then for men to take the rap for women attacking and killing their children or husband. It was said a man led the weak willed woman to do it. Carr’s Kreizler theorized that there were secretly child murdering women out there everywhere that had gotten away with it because they just couldn’t believe women would do that.

I wondered if this was a commentary on his own mother standing by and letting her husband mistreat Carr and not leaving him or sending the kids to stay with their grandparents permanently. Carr seemed to be exorcising some ghosts with that book after I read his bio. And books he wrote afterwards weren’t as good. It’s as if he had something very specific he had to write out and get rid of. I think the young street boy Stevie’s background might be him writing stuff out too.

Carr himself looks a lot more like the book description of Kreizler than the actor they cast. Kreizler is described as having pale skin, long black hair, dressing in black and looking like a raven.

R73, about Carr’s neighborhood, they have a small local paper that discusses local issues. No jobs, the local teens run wild destroying things, and there’s a lot of drug use. I don’t think he’s exaggerating that part.

[quote]R55 It’s been a while since I’ve read the book, but I don’t think the murderer is an already established character. Their identity is not a plot twist. I could be wrong, though.

Jeez....SPOILERS, anyone?

R76, a big part of the book is “who is the murderer?” Having said that, the book is really about tracking down the murderer, using scientific methods. It’s not so much about the idea that the murderer’s identity is a revelation, it’s more like why he did it is the revelation.

[quote] the book is really about tracking down the murderer, using scientific methods. It’s not so much about the idea that the murderer’s identity is a revelation, it’s more like why he did it is the revelation

If they don't throw us a bone, and reveal the murderer by the end of the series, I'll be PISSED.

its revealed but not explained much like its no big deal

dint like that

Guy who play Roosevelt was not on Chicago P D for 3 years. Hot body.

I suppose Carr's background would give him a lot more insight into the lives of 19th century poor children than most modern, civilized writers, or humans.

Back then the children of the wealthy were coddled in nurseries and the children of the middle classes were carefully educated, but poor children were told to forget about schools and get full-time jobs before they were ten years old, and as likely as not to get out of the house and support themselves when they should have been in grace school. Others just ended up on the streets, where the age of consent was 12 or thereabouts, not that the corrupt NY police gave a rat's ass. Carr's second book was told from the POV of former urchin Stevie, and how kids like him had to grow up far too soon. Some of that was undoubtedly personal, not that Carr had to go out and get a full-time job when he was an abused little kid.

[quote]He is a historian and built the house the old fashioned way, even the nails were squared shaped like they were in the olden days.

I hate that shit.

New episode tonight..

I really want to love this but the direction is awful. Dakota's character was spunky in the book, but she's playing it like one of the corpses she's investigating. Daniel Bruhl is playing it like a parody of an Agatha Christie film. Luke is good, supporting players are all good and the sets are fabulous

And my wish us granted!

This is very boring. The only good thing was seeing part of Douglas Smith's ass. I hope they keep that up throughout the show.

only watchin it cause of luke evans

piss poor directing and casting otherwise.

dakota? the alienist?

lousy

Luke is gorgeous. I love the timbre of his voice as well.

[quote] Luke is gorgeous. I love the timbre of his voice as well.

I agree! He's the best thing about this show.

How did they ever score him for a television series?

Someone must have called in a favor.

[quote]R82 I hate that shit.

Oh, you would have [italic]loved[/italic] childrens book author Tasha Tudor. She had her son build her a farm house like that (THANKS, MOM!) and only used candles, sewed her own clothes, milked goats, etc.

It's a bit batty....

Re: R90

The practical thing, though, is Tudor then used her house and grounds when doing her illustrations, and all the details were then correct.

watchng pt 2 now

god dakota is like a dead rock talking....

weird directorial effort eh...

the camera loves lukes face...

they gave him good lighting , etc

very nice

Did they dub the voice of the alienist dr ?

sounds like it

Fanning has cow face.

hilarious, every shot, looks like a young cow face.

When does the alien appear?

I'm getting bored...

LOL

The whole thing is starting to resemble a turn of the century soap opera, that u would see on Lifetime f gods sake...

The sound is quirky, does sound all dubbed later. voice tinkering: ye gads.

Truly amazing sets and costumes. Fanning in her napkin blouse....(good sewing

I LOVE WINTER!!!!

so cute !!!

It seems very slow tonight....like a play in the village that never ends..

I can see Sat Night Live doing a sketch on this show

if they havent yet.

I WANT THE ALIEN TO EAT THESE PEOPLE!

they may very well be dead already.

getting good.

chicken tranny whore house as arrived.

[quote] chicken tranny whore house as arrived

lol, what does that even mean??

R106 If you put on your thinking cap, you'll realize the poster meant to write [italic]"has[/italic] arrived."

It refers to a location in the series.

what is the accent of the alienist dr??

where is he from. his voice changes from scene to scene...

Bruhl is trying to speak with an American accent but he's German-Spaniard.

Luke pretending to be disgusted by the touch of a man - now that's acting!!!!

I believe Dr. Kreizler is a German immigrant, so a German inflected English would be fine. I haven't seen the second episode yet, but if they're ADRing lines (dubbing), either they had a crap sound guy, or they had a lot of modern world sounds they couldn't get rid of if they were on location (rather than a stage). In one of their featurettes, they built a giant street with buildings in Budapest to replicate New York.

Bruhl should be trying to speak like a German who's been in New York a long time.

I am not impressed so far, even though I love historical dramas and the production design is worth watching. Evans is the only one bringing any life to the character, and Fanning is just awful! Sara is supposed to be a fearless tough bitch, she's a little mouse kind of trying to act tough but not understanding what toughness is.

[quote] Bruhl should be trying to speak like a German who's been in New York a long time

I'm curious what Bruhl's real accent sounds like.

It must be a mish-mash because his father is German, but born and raised in Brazil, which would mean that his speech is influenced by Portugese.

And then his mother is Spanish from Barcelona.

Sounds like his accent would be all over the place.

I suppose a vaguely European accent, which it is.

Roosevelt is way too skinny and doesn't have the force of personality that TR did.

The Lucius sex scene was superfluous (but the boy did some convincing pounding).

And was that Sean Young in the preview for Ep. 3?!

I liked the second episode better than the first. This show can still be saved.

I do think Luke Evans have been consistently good in the show. I'm on the fence on Daniel Bruhl. They're supposed to play out like a Sherlock Holmes & Watson but I think their chemistry needs work.

Luke is a gorgeous homosexual!

Are there nude photos?

Holding steady in the ratings

Fanning in this reminds me of the surprise-lesbian on L&O.

I love it. I love the slow pace that makes you enjoy the visuals (sets, costumes, etc.). I love that the lead is forming his own squad and invites them to gather, for the first time, at a private dinner in a restaurant.

Delmonico’s !

Such insanely dull TV acting. Like watching children play oldey timey dressup.

I guess the second episode wasn't as good as the first?

No, I thought the second episode was better. Loved the freaky boy brothel

So those prostitute boys molested an unconscious Luke Evans at the end of the episode? Did I see that correctly?

That was actually found footage from Bryan Singer's last costume party.

R115 Marcus was the brother that was having sex. I loved his curly hair when he sat up. He's cute.

Did someone say boy brothels?

I’d like to get to know Marcus. Very cute fucker.

Watch Big Love. Douglas Smith had a couple of nude scenes in that, too.

How old is he, btw? BL had to be almost a decade ago. He still looks like he’s 18.

Douglas Smith was born in 1985, so he's going to be 33 this year.

He does look young, and he's the "cute brother" referred to at R57.

Has Douglas show peen?

Douglas has beautiful eyes.

Too bad he can't act for shit.

He has major gayface at r132

They were clearly going to do a gay storyline with his character in Big Love. There was that weird scene in the pilot where he and his best friend (Kyle Gallner, I think) were comparing morning wood. But they clearly dropped that idea.

I saw a few episodes of that show- did Douglas' character ever get it on with the youngest sister wife?

I’d like to compare morning wood with him.

hell no one in the thing can act for shit!

(dubious directing......

Marcus D'Amico, the original "Mouse" from TALES OF THE CITY, was listed as "Charlie" in the end credits of tonight's episode! I don't recall seeing him. Who was he?

This is the #1 new cable show, so I guess I got to watch it.

its on 2nite?

Monday nights, R140.

But they re-run it quite often on TNT.

MEMORABLE LINES:

[quote][italic]I wouldn't step foot in that molly house full of rich pansies...[/italic]

Impression from Episode 1:

BAD acting, BAD dialogue, some bad direction and casting...what could go wrong??

Marcus is cute.

A shame that they hid Jack Kesy's beautiful face with syphillis boils and scars. He played Henry Wolff who was accused killing two people (a guy and the boy prostitute). He played Niecy Nash gangsta boyfriend in Claws.

Falk Hentschel plays the gay brothel owner. He played Hawkman in the first season of CW's Legends of Tomorrow.

R66 There was a lot of John Moore going to the brothels in the book, but, as the narrative was from his perspective, he didin't actually say it, rather the other characters referenced his "evening outings".

R68 Lucien Carr, Caleb's father, is the main character portrayed by Dane Dehaan, in the film "kill Your Darlings", which includes the gay panic and the murder.

I always imagined Sara Howard as being dark haired, spunkier and more frustrated.

I do like Legend of Tomorrow's former Hawkman as the the gay pimp/Paul Kelly (and what was that awful singing?!)

[quote]I always imagined Sara Howard as being dark haired, spunkier and more frustrated.

I have not watched the series, as I do not get TNT, but I always pictured her looking like Jane Adams, from Relativity. I have now seen Dakota Fanning in a few pictures. I do not understand how she has gotten work as an adult. She must have excellent technical skills.

Boring, boring, boring

Why "gross," r148?

R81 Caleb Carr was abused by his dad but his dad, but his family was well off/rich, and Caleb Carr went to private schools and universities. But I can see why he would do things like leave the house or get a job so he could avoid his drunk abusive dad.

I got a job as soon as I could to avoid my drunk, abusive dad at the dinner table. I even had a paper route.

Thanks for that, R145.

I recently commented on the "Claws" thread that I thought Jack Kesy was so hot (especially with that naked butt shot in episode one), and I had no idea that he played Wolff in episode one.

Even with the hideous makeup, you could still see that he was attractive.

Another one of Jack Kesy...

[quote]R146 I always imagined Sara Howard as being dark haired, spunkier and more frustrated.

I imagined a young Julianne Moore when I was reading it.

So Jack Kesy played gay in a movie called Morgan?

Anyone see it?

Yes, please!

Sean Young!?!

Buffalo Bill needs to get his Irish accent sorted. It wasn't there at all in his first scene. Now it's back.

I want a silk dressing gown. Or would I look too much like a lounge lizard?

Still don't get what Fanning is doing with her character. She's such an emotionless blank.

the approach by the major actors is bizarre....

had to order the book, cant find out who the killer is anywhere on the net. dammit.

tho they say its some very minor character which makes the whole mystery seem like one big red herring/fake ruse.

NOT FAIR ACCORDING TO MYSTERY RULES. THERE ARE NO REAL CLUES TO BE FOLLOWED.....SHIT.

the doctor/alienist's voice sounds like he is recoveriing from throat cancer....

to the above: i also hate when the killer is not to be figured out, but some minor nothing, takes away from the 'can i guess it' factor.

R161 NOT FAIR ACCORDING TO MYSTERY RULES. THERE ARE NO REAL CLUES TO BE FOLLOWED.....SHIT.

Celia...calm yourself! It's structured like [italic]The Silence of the Lambs,[/italic] where an organization is profiling and honing in on a killer who's at large. It doesn't have a surprise ending like some murder stories, where it's like, "Oh my GOD....you mean all along, it was AUNT MABEL??"

What made the book a success wasn't the plot, but the way it presented a very well researched olde New York.

like a perry mason mystery, its a blast to try figure out who done it.

this is not one of those evidently, the whole thing seems lite....

maybe it should have been a one time movie thing on hbo

Its beginning to resemble a soap opera

everybody scolding everybody

barking dogs, o what shall we do

looks of horror and benign fatigue...

I switched to IFC, paranormal activity 2

those movies scare the waddle outta me.

yea, a soap opera without Jill.

[quote]R165 everybody scolding everybody / barking dogs, o what shall we do / looks of horror and benign fatigue...

It's like DataLounge!!

The lighting is kind of dark so details are hard to see. Love the sets kinda steampunk. Dakota is awful. I saw her in some HBO movie few weeks ago as some pioneer woman with no talking since her tongue had been cut out. She acted just the same , just blank faced. She might as well not talk in this too. Luke is the only interesting character, he was great in Girl On The Train ,too.

i know who the killer is

anyone wanna know?

make a guess....

yes !!!

(aint gunna tell......

Was there no new episode on Monday? It was just re-runs.

Or did I miss it?

R153 he's handsome in that picture, is he bisexual or gay? Or is he cut or not cut?

I feel like the Jewish brothers should have more New York-ish accents. They sound too flat. In fact, I find most of the accents (or lack of) distracting. One of Teddy Roosevelt’s daughter said of him ‘he wanted to be the baby at every christening, the bride at every wedding, and the corpse at every funeral’ , not getting that from this character portrayal at all.

[quote]‘he wanted to be the baby at every christening, the bride at every wedding, and the corpse at every funeral’ , not getting that from this character portrayal at all.

Perhaps an interpretive dance?

I guess that they had to go with a more subdued Roosevelt, R175 in order to not overshadow the two main characters.

It was a smart move, because if they had chosen an actor who was like the real Teddy Roosevelt, it would have been too distracting and would have overtaken the story.

Plus, it's serious subject matter, so a boisterous and funny Teddy Roosevelt would have been inappropriate.

In this series, Luke Evans reminds me of the late British actor Jon Finch who was in Hitchcock's "Frenzy".

All these boy whores make for such a sordid experience!

I don't know what makes this series so unengaging....I think it's that the whole thing is done too straightforwardly.

There are some lovely touches...like the way they handled the people swimming at the baths...but it's almost like they created this elaborate Victorian setting and then dropped casual modern actors and a director from SVU into it. There's no sense of...artistic grandeur, or even grime, to it.

It's so flat.

The one good thing they did is play down the role of the book's narrator, who's the young street urchin protogee of Dr. Whatshisname. You still see him in the show, but at least he's way off on the sidelines.

the reveal of the killer is not really the point of the book, which is to study the beginnings of forensics in police work. The horror of the crimes is merely to keep the reader involved. Now that so many shows are about forensics, this show comes off banal to avid watchers of the modern day dramas. The overuse of limited to no lighting makes the damn thing hard to watch, so the gore factor of the novel is gone. As a whole, it's a pretty costume drama with bland characters.

R180- bingo!

The scene in episode 2 when Evans walks into the boy brothel looked like a steal from Visconti's THE DAMNED.

I like the grittiness of it all. And where else can you see a period show about boywhores getting killed?

[quote]It's structured like The Silence of the Lambs, where an organization is profiling and honing in on a killer who's at large.

Which makes Ted Levine being in this even more badass.

Dakota Fanning is soooo pie-faced...

Lol... who is Dakota Fanning again?

This is the first I'm hearing of her.

Hmmm... so is the Luke Evans character supposed to be questioning his sexuality?

Not sure if it's just me, but there seems to be some ambiguity there.

I get Daniel Bruhl's and Dakota Fanning's characters. Those are pretty straight forward. But Luke's character is still a bit of a mystery to me.

Yes, Roosevelt wanted to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral, but in both the book and the show they show him preoccupied with a huge and hopeless task - trying to clean up the NYPD of the 1890s. Which he didn't stick at long; if I recall correctly, he got a lot of publicity for trying to fight corruption and basically used the job as a springboard into national politics. I think Carr was correct to show him as not too involved, from what I've read about the man he had enough of a moral sense to care about boy whores being killed (not guaranteed or a man of his class), but he wouldn't see any personal gain in being involved with something so sordid. So yeah, he'd delegate.

And yes, Fanning is terrible. She literally has no idea how to play a tough woman, she seems to think that looking extremely tense is enough.

I missed episode two. What happened to Luke? Was he roofied by a boy whore?

Haven't we all?

Just the cute ones r191.

I loved when the boy whore was talking to Kreizler and Moore in the alley, and after Kreizler paid him for the information, he walked past Moore and said, "see you around..."

Hahaha. Luke's expressions everytime he gets propositioned or flirted with, by another guy, just cracks me up.

And what's funny is that he's always getting propositioned. First by the gay guy in the jail who murdered his lover, and then by "Sally" the boy whore. And he always acts repulsed, but you know he just loves it!

So was Luke gang raped by the boy whores or not?

I highly doubt that the boy whores are tops, R194.

Then did the boy whores bounce on Luke’s dick?

[quote] Then did the boy whores bounce on Luke’s dick?

Probably not if he was roofied and passed out.

It was strictly about robbing him, and maybe getting a look at his willy.

Idk r197 didn't one of the whorehouse owners (maybe the guy who roofed Luke) say something to the retired cop like 'he won't be sitting down for a while'? Maybe they did rape him.

[quote] didn't one of the whorehouse owners (maybe the guy who roofed Luke) say something to the retired cop like 'he won't be sitting down for a while'?

You're right! I missed the beginning of episode three and started watching right at that point. But I missed who they were talking about. I assumed it was one of the boy whores, and not Luke!

I’m sure it wasn’t Luke’s first gang bang.

To those whining that the main suspect isn't obvious, suspects never are in real life killings or realistic murder mysteries.

In murder mysteries there's usually a small group of suspects, even if the author has to bend over backwards and create oddly isolated circumstances to keep the number if suspects down, it's a cliche of the genre. In realistic stories, the murderer could be anyone in New York. I give Carr credit for doing his story the hard way, and giving his detectives no limit on who to suspect.

Who was the guy in the pool, watching all the boys swim?

They didn't show his full face, but I swear it looked like Luke.

I assumed that was the murderer.

That's what I'm saying, R203.

Just from the little bit they showed of his eyes and face, it looked like Luke, who might also be the murderer?

Poor Luke. Raped by boy whores and now a murderer.

Maybe the former, but not the latter.

Is the Alienist a book series? Might there be another season (hopefully with sexy Luke) or will this be it?

Dakota Fanning's character is dull dull dull. I can't imagine Luke's character would be interested in her. he should stick with the mute lady.

[quote] Might there be another season (hopefully with sexy Luke) or will this be it?

This is it. It's just a special limited series.

10 episodes ending on March 26.

Very frustrating to watch Dakota butcher the character. In the book, she was turn of the century fierce! It's nice to watch Luke though. Daniel Bruel or whatever his name is reminds me of Dieter, an old Mike Myers character from SNL. I expect him to start screaming TOUCH MY MONKEY after his breathy monologues.

R208 I've never seen the Dieter character, but that made me lol. How weird and funny would it be to see Laszlo scream touch my monkey randomly? It would probably fit right in with this show.

Here's Dieter, R209.

I don't agree with R208 about Bruhl coming across like Dieter, but it's still funny.

The Sprockets comment is funny and TRUE!

The book got mixed reviews at the time, the main complaint being it was short on heart, emotion, character, despite all the fabulous historical details and brilliant initial scene-setting that had you expecting to be drawn in and involved.

watching episode 4

it continues to amaze with sets and costumes, and the mystery deepens...

i am however so put off by the portrayl of the Alienist by Mr Bruhl that its quite distracting. he sounds as if he is ill with the flu. is this his voice?? he appears to be over his head, what movie does he think he is in?

Fanning and Evans are quite good. and lots of lesser characters are delightful.

That actor, bruhl, is a mess.

i dont get him at all.

he sounds like men ive known who have false teeth.....

daniel "can i ask u to button my boots?" bruhl

o brother...

luke 'button your own boots' evans.

yay

its way better with mute on.

sub titles only.

they all sound like soap opera actors....

Episode 4 - I hate that they found a major clue just lying in the grass at that stone building. I know criminals inadvertently leave things behind...but come on, that could have been handled a little smarter, writing wise. Anything but, "Oh, look! What's [italic]this??"[/italic]

That's about the level of this show, mystery wise.

yes, its beginning to resemble Cabot Cove.....

paging angela to the alienist's office.

who knew that ted levine, who played buffalo 'it puts the lotion on the skin' bill in silence of da lambs, is in the alienist, he plays thomas bynes, retired policeman i think or some kind of detective. gr8 character actor

That "button my shoe" scene was enough to start the slash fiction flying.

will the fuk scene of luke in daniel be on the dvd?

Luke sure likes hanging around the boy whores.

Looks like he found himself a new little friend.

so kinky 2nite

cannibalism for gods sake.

whee

I hope r223. I don't think all laszlo's pissiness towards Luke this episode was due to him taking the girl on a date and losing his notebook. He wants to tap that. He may not know it yet- a few more visits to that madam we saw at the beginning of the episode should clue him in. He seems like he'd enjoy the 'pain and pleasure'she was talking about.

So is the rich guy with the mean mother and father the real killer?

Or is it just a red herring?

I'd be happy if silver mouth was a real killer, because then that part will be resolved, and I can just focus on the main characters and see if they come to some sort of resolution of their "issues."

You guys bring up an interesting point about the dynamic between John and Laszlo, and I wonder if sexuality is going to play any part in the outcome of this series. I doubt it, but it would be interesting.

FYI, there will be an Alienist marathon on Wednesday night, for those who want to catch up on the show.

TNT will be airing all four episodes.

So at Evans is the only one who's delivering a good performances. He's doing what really good actors, putting in little looks or actions that make his character more likeable and the series more fun; he's improving scenes without changing a word of dialogue!

I'm very disappointed in Bruhl. He's been that good in other films, and he isn't here. And Fanning, is terrible, and none of the other actors are making an impact. So I hope this does wonders for Evans's career, I do like watching him and he's carrying the series single-handedly.

I agree R229.

And I think that the "20,000,000 viewers making it the highest rated cable program" that TNT keeps bragging about, are pretty much all tuning in for Luke.

I said it all along, he was a major "get" for this cable television series, because the guy is an A-list movie star.

Honestly, Cary Fukunaga must have called in a huge favor from Luke.

I didn't like the first episode but it's getting better with each episode.

I don't agree about Bruhl. I like him. He's repressed and that's why he's attracted to the dark parts of the psyche. He's brilliant but almost autistic. I've know quite a few people that became psychologist or psychiatrists because they were troubled individuals.

The very last scene was chilling. The hunters are not the hunted.

Don't forget, there's an Alienist marathon on TNT tonight, but there's a lot on television going on with 9-1-1, Versace murder, Amazing Race, Celeb Apprentice.

If you don't have a DVR, you're screwed.

The rich guy killer is just a red herring.

The real killer will be a surprise.

Douglas Smith is such a cutie. I want to lick him all over.

The wealthy couple having pudding for dessert are Luke’s parents?

No, R235.

They're the supposed killer's parents.

The guy with the silver smile isn’t the real killer. It’ll be revealed soon that it’s actually a character that we've already met. And then we'll find out that this character is actually an interdimensional being from a parallel universe. Cuz these stories are supposed to have shocking twists, right?

Was that Sean Young as the rich matron, the mother of the killer?

There's no twist here.

I think they're identifying the killer early on in the series, so that other aspects of the story can be developed.

As others have mentioned here, it's more about HOW they got to the killer, and not WHO the killer is.

All I know is that I had to laugh at the ending of episode one, when Laszlo is giving this very dramatic speech, he means to say "wretched," but instead it comes out RATCHET. That was fucking hilarious!

I didn't know that they spoke street slang a hundred years ago.

Next, he'll be saying, "gurl, bye!"

the director should have played the Alienist, very HOT

bruhl's acting style is beginning to really get on my nerves. is he a human robot???

but such a georgous production. kudos to the cinematographer, costumer, set design, all high production values indeed.

almost better than the book.

'button ur own shoes" love luke evans.

versace/alienist

im obsessed

theyr both so pervy fun

stars in porn....

Kreizler needs to be played by an actor who is more adept at playing an obsessive, idiosyncratic character. Bruhl is too earnest, really. He's not bad, but he's not that compelling either. If this had been made soon after the novel came out (and was a theatrical film), DDL would have been ideal in the role. You need someone like that in the part.

The casting with the exception of ‘it puts the lotion in the basket’ and ‘man raped by the boy whores’ is horrible. It seems the whole point of the Jewish twin police officers is for them to run around town and one of the brothers to graphically fuck a shiksa. One of the brothers sounds very modern and the other (shiksa fucker) kind of has a Jewish accent. Not knowing how these thing work, couldn’t the director advise the actors on their accents? It’s like they blew the budget on sets and costumes and had nothing left for a dialect coach.

[quote] One of the brothers sounds very modern and the other (shiksa fucker) kind of has a Jewish accent.

If I'm not mistaken, they're supposed to be fraternal twins, which makes it even worse.

[quote] couldn’t the director advise the actors on their accents? It’s like they blew the budget on sets and costumes and had nothing left for a dialect coach

It's all of the Millennial actors. They couldn't do an accent to save their lives. They still sound like they're from 2018.

R245 is one of those Republican geezers who bash "millennials" for no reason. There are plenty of old actors who can't do accents, either.

So you're saying that they're actually good actors with correct time-period accents, R246?

rofl

r247, you missed the point. Being talented or untalented has nothing to do with being a "millennial" - you are just a grumpy old fart looking to attack young people (the actors aren't even all that young anyway, but when you're old as hell anyone under 70 seems young, I guess)

Forget the accents- what episode does the good doctor fuck Luke you think? Nine? Ten?

I want Luke to fuck Douglas Smith. That would be pleasant to watch.

Indeed, R250!

But the way that Douglas was fucking that girl, it seems that he's horribly straight.

R251, it's called acting

"It's all of the Millennial actors. They couldn't do an accent to save their lives. They still sound like they're from 2018. "

American actors have been shitty at accents since the beginning of sound films, if not earlier! I hope the theater actors o the 20th century were better at accents and historical portrayals than film actors, because film actors have always sucked at both. Clark Gable was always Clark Gable to matter what era or nationality he was supposed to be, same for 90% of the major American actors who've ever been filmed.

So yeah, this is not a new problem.

r253 Well, Daniel Brühl's American accent leaves a lot to be desired.

Kreizler is supposed to be from a rich German family and speak with a German accent.

I think this book would have made a better feature film that some long, drawn out miniseries.

I must be in the minority because I really like Bruhl in this.

I do too, R257. I think he plays the role very well. He's cold as ice, rude, and arrogant, which I'm guessing is how Kreizler is supposed to be.

Despite the fact that he comes across as a dick, he's somehow still likeable.

So who actually had sex with Luke?

Was it one or two of the older boy whores, or was it the owner of the brothel? He seemed to take a liking to Luke, as well.

Everybody Tapped Luke.

R258, I've seen Bruhl in other roles and in interviews and he's opposite of this character so it is written.. Kreizler is all about science but can't handle close adult relationships or his own emotions, this is why he asked those off the wall questions of his friends as he has no clue. He has Asperger's, bordering on genius.. Cary Fukanaga wrote this episode and it was one of the better ones.

[quote] Kreizler is all about science but can't handle close adult relationships or his own emotions, this is why he asked those off the wall questions of his friends as he has no clue. He has Asperger's, bordering on genius..

Funny you mention this, because that's exactly how Daniel Bruhl plays the character, in my opinion.

I didn't read the book, but without any prior knowledge of what you wrote, that is the Kreizler I'm seeing on the show.

So it is a testament to Bruhl's acting ability, that's he's pretty spot-on in his portrayal of Kreizler.

[quote]R260 Everybody Tapped Luke.

The new tee shirt...

What is the deal with Kreizler and his maid? Why does he employ people have killed? I can see mute Mary attempting to stab Sarah.

"employ people who have killed"

I think that Jewel's cousin (Q'orianka Kilcher) who plays Mary is quite beautiful.

She's half Swiss on the Kilcher side, and half Peruvian Quechua Indian. Very exotic looking.

Luke's acting cracks me up.

He reminds me so much of DeForrest Kelly (aka Dr. McCoy) from the original Star Trek.

It's just his exclamations of disgust and revulsion, that are so hilarious.

It's like he's saying "Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor not a miracle worker!"

{quote] his exclamations of disgust and revulsion, that are so hilarious.

I notice that too but I really enjoy watching him. I wonder if it's because he's trying so hard to sound "American". I also find Bruehl having difficulty speaking like an American, his German accent comes through. Of course, Dakota and the American actor playing Roosevelt sound much more natural than the European actors.

Here is one of my favorite scenes and Luke is doing one of his Dr McCoy impressions. I love Dakota's reaction to Lazlo's inappropriate questions.

Again, Bruhl isn't playing an American, he's playing a German who's lived in New York a long time.

R269

Sometimes I wonder if people here actually watch the show or just complain about it. Bruhl's American accent is bad! He sounds German!

enter my web of warm deceit, mr alienist......

Someone said Fukunaga must have called in favors to get Luke Evans. However Garrett Hedlund was announced to play that role in the Fukunaga version. When Fukunaga left, so did Hedlund.

Garrett Hedlund would have been great in that role and nice eye candy. I like Luke but I don't see any chemistry between he and Fanning. Hedlund has chemistry with anyone.

I'm ready for my urine test Dr Alienist

he plays one of the jewish detectives, so fukkin hot

Hot, yes....if you dream of having sex with Kate Moss...

luke at the brothel.....

I kind of can't wait for this thing to be over....HOW many more episodes to go?

pussy for Sir Alienist

Just please....let the killer off them all, and put us out of our misery!

Dakota "Third Wheel" Fanning

I was watching episode 4 for the 2nd time tonite....

its like they are robot, the Alienist especially, very odd show.

one loves the sets, outfits, etc

but when they speak, its like.......DEAD.

lets get it WOKE!

Douglas Smith's American mother is Jewish. But he does't "look Jewish." Unlike the other guy. In fact, they don't look like brothers at all.

Okay, but would you want to see someone who looks like the other brother having hot, nearly nude sex scenes?

The effervescent Miss Fanning

It's amusing to see how her balloon sleeves are as big as her head. It's like she has three heads.

"Garrett Hedlund would have been great in that role and nice eye candy. I like Luke but I don't see any chemistry between he and Fanning. Hedlund has chemistry with anyone."

Actors as inert as Dakota Fanning don't have chemistry with anyone

If Winona Ryder was younger, she'd be perfect for the role of Sarah.

I’m just researching my Grandpa Otto, please don’t hate me; but anyway, he was hoofing-it around the Bronx and Manhattan at this time. The other side of my family was in Brooklyn. So, I’m watching it through their eyes, I am imagining.

One thing I noticed. In the parlor game of murder (episode 2, I think), two jovial players “die” and fall on the floor in jest. Laughs all around, such good sports. Except, all their shoes and the bottom of all the gall’s dresses would have horse manure on them. Nobody would lay on the floor like that, on purpose, as a joke.

I recoil, as if from a flame!

[quote]R289 Nobody would lay on the floor like that, on purpose, as a joke....I recoil, as if from a flame!

You need to BLOCK this show ! ! !

And call TNT...

Did her costars find Dakota Fanning to be as big a drag as we do?

I wonder...

who?

I just hope they don't try to turn it into a rollicking Broadway musical.

[italic]ALIENIST![/italic]

This was a good episode. I liked that they focused on Roosevelt. Corruption was rampant in the Gilded Age and he fired a lot of police chiefs and officers and tried to clean up the department, although it was said, even it was too much for him. He took office at the age of 35. Brian Gerharty (sp?) looks like him although Roosevelt probably had more charisma. Wish we had more leaders like Roosevelt.

SEAN YOUNG!!!

All of the deadpan reciting of lines while just staring at each other is getting on my last nerve

wants to be painted by luke....

If I were a boy whore, I'd want Luke on my client list!

R296, then don't watch it. I find it is getting better.

Luke's flirtation with Dakota lacked chemistry again because he looks too old for her. There's more tension between Kreizler and Sarah.

They've veered from the book which is a good thing.

mmmmmm

new episode now!

getting good isnt it.

the mystery thickens.

dakota looks good in her outfit in the opening scene

how many episodes are there?

wonder what the significance of luke evans' ring is...

Having trouble understand the words Bruhl speaks as the Alienist, too craggy , from cigs or is it dubbed in some fashion for effect..... offputting.

Too

many

god dam

commercials. god, tnt is horrible bout that....ads, ads ads

[quote]R295 SEAN YOUNG!!! — love her

Poor thing. She'll never be a good actress, but it's nice to see her again.

I'm glad someone threw her a bone.

indeed!

she lent gr8 fun to the show

hope her part gets bigger....

MOMMA ! WHAT HAVE U DONE....

(quite a while ago, unfortunately) (by Matthew Rolston)

Matthew Rolston was one of THE photographer to the stars for a couple of decades....

Okay...this is the last one. BACK TO THE 1880'S!

is there a sequel to the book?

same characters? anyone know the plot?

i presume they will film it, this one seems to be a hit...

im quite enjoying the production value, tho the casting is spotty.

sean young is delightful......very under rated

superb in BLADERUNNER, one of the gr8 est films.

Huge fan of her.

Always put her all into it....

GEORGOUS

[quote]R311 superb in BLADERUNNER

Playing a fucking [italic]robot!

R304, put on your closed captioning.

It is much easier to read the dialogue.

I hear in the sequel, the alienist trains a therapist who becomes New York's first alienrapist!

r311, it's "The Angel of Darkness", which I think is a superior book. It's told from Stevie's viewpoint, and the big bad is a terrific villain. If they plan to do this in series 2, might as well put a mop in Dakota's place, because the villain is SO much more interesting than Sara.

German actress Liv Lisa Fries has the same kind of role as DF's in Tom Tykwer's BABYLON BERLIN (on Netflix): spunky, intrepid office girl challenges misogyny and prejudice to become a female detective in a world of urban corruption.

Fries is everything DF is not.

r306 Nice to see that eyeliner back in the 1890s.

Looks like Sally is back next week. Miss Luke seems to like Miss Sally...

I been binge watching and I love it. I think DANIEL Bruhl is spot on as an arrogant, impetuous doctor. Sets looks amazing.

Considering how many times this episode winked at Silence Of The Lambs, I thought its title, "Hildebrandt's Starling", was quite appropriate.

If you’re interested b the sets, there are a bunch of short behind the scenes clips on On Demand about the sets, another is about the costumes, the era, etc. They really did a lot of promotional material for this.

The Angel of Darkness has another interesting character, Stevie’s thirteen year old burny-sniffing (cokehead) prostitute girlfriend. She makes him look like a nun.

The main story is about a widowed Frau, respectable and stodgy. Tragically, her child dies. Then, she becomes a private nurse and tragically, the child she cares for in a private home dies. Then..

You get the picture. But! she is so caring and devoted! So respectable! It must be a series of unfortunate events! Poor unlucky, tragic, motherly woman!

They spend that one trying to prove this poor, innocent, respectable matron, is anything but.

The Angel of Darkness has a lot of heart. I’d like to see them do that one.

I like it. But I'm a little disappointed, too. I don't think it's as good as Ripper Street was, though they have similarities. And I don't think it's quite as beautiful one of my recent favorite period pieces, Penny Dreadful.

I wish that they would put this series on HBO, Netflix or Amazon Prime. The commercials ruin everything.

[quote] . I think DANIEL Bruhl is spot on as an arrogant, impetuous doctor.

I agree and think he's a lot sexier than Luke's character. Maybe because his character is more fascinating, brilliant and unpredictable. Also, Luke Evans looks a lot older even though both actors are almost the same age; Evans has all these wrinkles from so much sunbathing!

Dakota has more chemistry with the doctor than with Evans. Her character and the doctor are equal in intellect and appear intrigued by this.

But she called ME handsome!

(and indolent, but who cares about that?)

I'm binging on the far superior but tragically named "The Frankenstein Chronicles" with Sean Bean. early 19th century London and they get all the details right.

I hate it when posters advertise other tv shows. GO away.

I don't. I passed by that on Netflix tonight, r328. I thought it looked like another crap Sean Bean movie. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

R299 I don't agree. I thought Moore's flirting with Sara in the last episode was very charming and I think they have good chemistry. Not saying I'd necessarily want them to end up together but it wouldn't be terrible. Moore seems like he's a sensitive person, yes with some issues, but he comes across as probably the most sensitive character of the main ones. Makes for an interesting dynamic - where the man is the more "delicate" than the woman, kind of a little flip on gender roles. I like Bruhl as Kriezler but I mind games are NOT what you want for a romantic relationship on. Even if she calls him out on it, it's still what he does very frequently.

Yes, but I think Sarah has the hots for the doctor.

He looks like DJ Connor as a grownup.

I love Bruhl in this. He is very hit or miss for me as an actor, but here he has such an alien vibe about him that is very fitting. Evans is nothing special, tbh.

one wonders how this would have been if it

had been in the hands of someone who know how to cast a movie

only luke evans shines, the rest seem to be floundering in a muddy puddle.

sean young is gr8 fun tho, and the one who playes luke's granny.

It plays like the director is on Qualudes...tho not as fun.

awfully fun to look at tho

kudos to the costumer and set designer...

it makes the piece very watchable.

What's kind of stupid about it (and this does go back to the source material) is none of the characters are ABOUT anything. They have about as much depth as Nancy Drew.

In the novel, the girl was more invested in proving herself so she'd be added to the police/detective force. Here she's just kind of along for the ride.

So, we have a bad script, and a bad director directing bad actors.

What could go wrong?

pleasant soap opera is it.

only bit of nudity is missing....

who chose the director?

mr carr?

What the hell is going on? Who is this strange person who shits on all actors except shining mister Evans? What show are you watching? Daniel Bruhl is amazing in this. He is perfect as repressed individual. Dacota is not as good, but she is decent. I like Evans, but there is no way in hell he is the only good actor on this show.

R342, are YOU watching the show? Dakota sucks the life out of every scene she's in.

R343

She is miscast and very different from the book character, but she is bearable. I don't like how directors relies on close ups with her. She often looks like a deer in the headlights. I don't like her, but she doesnt ruin the show for me. Bruhl is amazing, Evans is very good.

I don't like how she pronounces the letter 'w'. Who, what, where, why- she does that little breathy whisper thing before she says the letter. I've always hated that.

The guy who plays the police chief named Roosevelt, I think, throws me off. They should've had a more forceful actor playing him - this guy seems a little unconvincing. The one Jewish detective who's always having sex is the worst of the miscast bunch although I don't really have a problem with Dakota or the other main leads.

I read the book ages ago; I hope they explore the relationship between Kriezler and Mary. NO SPOILERS, please!

Yes r345, Roosevelt had charisma and a leadership quality for days, so much so that he became president. The actor playing him is very milquetoast.

[quote] Daniel Bruhl is amazing in this. He is perfect as repressed individual.

Agree, about Bruhl. His character uses his friends' histories to explore motive but he refuses to indulge his own. I loved that scene where he had a pissy tantrum at Sarah's theory of a negative female influence. The next episode explores his background and what really happened to his arm.

I hope they have a second season and do the book sequel called Angel of Darkness.

The reason I like this series so much (and The Knick) is that the stories are based in the late 19th and early 20th century in America. I've seen plenty of movies and series set in England during this period countless of times and it's not as interesting anymore. This period in America was an exciting period-- the industrial revolution, the medical and scientific discoveries and the reform movement, the rising power of a young country-- has not been explored enough in movies or television.

I agree with some of the above posters

the show needed more forceful actors in most of the parts

its nice to look at, but oy vey, the casting is bizarre.

Do we know why Fanning's character was so set on working for the police? It's not like she needs money.

her part as written is incomprehensible.

the whole thing is dubbed in some weird way.

what else has the director done?

its a mystery.

has done a few german tv stuff

and a movie: 2nd assist director, scout locater, etc

Because she's interested in that? She has a passion for it? She was raised by her father to think independently despite what society thinks.

"Do we know why Fanning's character was so set on working for the police? It's not like she needs money."

Because she's a Mary Sue and not a character who acts the way a real person would

I think the plot is beyond 'figuring out' or its characters motivations.

She's based on a woman who became the first female detective in the late 1800s.

do Dakota gots thyroid problems?

her eyes is kinda buggy...

will the deleted scene of the alienist in the glory hole of the brothel skooching up to a whores fat cock be in the xtras of the dvd?

this and this alone can save us from the tediosity of his wimpy life.

Dr Kreizler

suk my fat cock u fame whore.

why do you

type like that

and whine non stop

?

Fanning was better in this last episode. Her exchange with the doctor where she challenged him was nearly riveting...

That poster always types like that and whines r362. They are the same in the Versace threads.

Their poorly formatted posts can't help but be noticed.

[quote]Their poorly formatted posts can't help but be noticed.

Which makes them remarkably easy to disregard.

Stopping spamming the thread with porn shots

Ooh they're using Stevie as bait. This should work out well...

Fanning got slapped!

And it still didn't improve her acting!

Her acting is akin to nada. Her googly eyeballs make me quiver with glee.

Well they really fucked that up, didn't they? Should've just waited in Stevie's room until the guy came in through the window. Could've hid under the bed or the closet and then attacked him.

At least the silver tooth perv is dead.

kill joy. I don't get it for another hour and fifteen min. Spoiler! .... But I don't really give a shit.

Stevie didn't have a room. The guy was going to buy a room.

Well, that slap should kill any interest on Sarah's part. Overall, John is looking more desirable for Sarah. At least he has consideration for others.

don't hate me

cause

I'm so purdy.

The best scene was Connor following the Silver pervert and all three walking up the Brooklyn Bridge in a slant while NYC twinkles beneath them.. ( I've never been to NYC so I assume this is when they constructed the bridge, alert me if I'm wrong.) The guy who plays Connor is so good because he's downright evil, like a Trump Deplorable.

Overall, the production of this series is amazing-- the bridge scene and the one in the park. I was in Budapest in the summer and I recognize some outer exteriors they used.

Will the alienist reveal his fat cock this evening? Get blown by silver tooth fairy?

R31 I, for one, do not find this to be in the proper 1880s mood.

Take it over to that trampy brood mare VICTORIA'S thread!

It jumped the shark tonite. Storyline is beyond belief . Yes glad he slapped bug eyes.

Well, E05 was at least the first one with a genuine SCARE in it.

I jumped[bold] : o[/bold]

its starting to drag..

I laughed when Kreizler slapped her. He's such a bitch!

He just need to have angry sex with mute Mary. I bet she's a real wildcat.

John and Sarah together would be boring. And he looks 15- 20 years too old for her.

Stone Face Bug Eyes is reminding me of a plainer Drew Barrymore, without makeup.

[quote] John and Sarah together would be boring. And he looks 15- 20 years too old for her.

Agree, physically, Sarah and Kreizler look like a better couple together.

I don't get why Luke Evans looks so much older than Bruhl who is a year old than he. I know he spends a lot of time in the sun (so many pics in the beach and in the pool) but does he smoke?

I'm not remembering ANY of this Sean Young/Park Avenue-style subplot from the book. Is this new??

[quote]R316 "The Angel of Darkness", which I think is a superior book.

Much agreed.

sean young is the BEST PART OF THIS THING SO FAR...

Well, she's the most unexpected thing. She is keeping me awake in her bits.

And she is better than I initially feared she might be.

Can someone please explain the ending to me?

When the group is on the rooftop, and they are all wondering why the killer would draw attention to himself by attacking Cyrus, Moore says, "Unless......" Then they all stare at the open window.

What was that all about?

I wonder what Kreizler is hiding?

At first I was thinking that he stole the "Laszlo Kreizler" identity from someone else, which is why he had the congenital birth defect, but the guy in the newspaper did not.

But then I realized he actually did know how to play the piano, so I guess it just means that someone hurt him when he was older. Perhaps his father?

Also, the look that he gave the homeless children sleeping on the street, must have meant something towards the plot. Could he have been homeless himself? It's all so confusing.

It did get me thinking, though, of the deplorable conditions that children must have endured in those days.

Aside from being forced into child labor, they were probably also made to be prostitutes, and many of them were probably cast on the streets by poor parents who couldn't afford to take care of them.

It really must have been awful for kids who weren't born into privilege.

After Kreizler solves the murder mystery, I think that he is going to end up with Mary.

The young police detective Sergeant will marry his fuckbuddy girlfriend, and John and Sarah will eventually fall in love, and adopt Joseph as their child.

The end.

So how long before Jakob and Dakota annouce they’re getting married—to each other.

Jakob seems like that type of opportunist, and Dakota...well, she needs all the handouts she can get.

Sorry to see Josef Altin written out of the series already. He's fantastic in the role. (He's 35, but looks and acts half his age in the show).

R389 while they were all distracted checking on Cyrus, the killer was able to go back to the brothel, climb up to a window, and abduct a child. Whom he later murders. (I think it was the same little kid who was talking to the young sergeant, but I may be wrong)

About attacking cyrus, Luke was saying 'why would he do this, unless...he wanted us over here, so he could go back over there.". And it worked.

[quote] Sarah will eventually fall in love, and adopt Joseph as their child.

I think Joseph was the one who was killed.

How does the killer go into the window on the 2nd and 3rd floor and carry a child with him? They need to look for someone who attends church or is a religious fanatic, is an athlete or used to be a mountain climber, likes heights....not go into his brain to find out why he does this. They're crazy!

Thanks for the explanation R394.

What made it confusing was that I thought it was all happening at the same time, but I guess the sunrise at the Statue of Liberty was the clue that the body was lying there hours later.

As for Joseph being killed, I was thinking it was the younger boy, and not Joseph. I thought it was the boy who taught Stevie to bat his eyelashes. I hope it wasn't Joseph, because I still think he is going to be adopted by Moore.

the script is very muddled. I have to watch each episode several times to get at what the director is doing. still, its a bit indechiperable wtf theyr up to...

I don't think it was Joseph, either. He'll most likely be adopted by Moore, join Kreitzler's house as a ward like stevie, or be the last boy killed.

I agree that it was not Joseph. I guess it was the younger boy. I am guessing Joseph will be an intregal part in the solving of the murders.

The scene in the boy whore house was funny and campy.

Detective Sergeant: "How old are you?"

Little boy: "How old would you like?"

Joseph: "You mean people can make money from drawing? Why doesn't everyone do it?"

Is this the first time in the history of television that a boy whorehouse was the central setting for a show? It just has to be.

Forgot his name, but he bluntly asked marcus "want to go upstairs?" and Marcus was like "let me recite some raunchy poetry for you instead, kid."

Hope it's not him, he was plucky.

I bought the book to find the killer, which was reavealed but I still doont know who he is/.....so many red herrings oy

The only other show that was centered in a "boy whorehouse" was a very special two hour episode of "Green Acres." Oh that Mr. Haney!

Speaking of boy whorehouses, someone should do a miniseries about the Cleveland Street Scandal

there were some lifetime movies located in male whore houses....

I am so in love with the curly haired cop who has shown his delightful ass.

I really like Stevie. It was a hoot watching him trying to be a girl.

R345- they all do it with the ‘wh’ sound.

I want to see luke evans get in drag on that show.....and sell his ass on the street.

So many canards in who the killer is. Have kind of lost interest. More Sean Young less alienistica....

Luke and mr alienist should come flying out of the closet in final episode and rescue all them poor whore boys in the brothel. jump in the buggy and hi tail it to California.!!!! become the Kings of Castro..

Were boy whorehouses really so open and accepted in the late 1800's?

The show makes it seem as though they were as normal as regular brothels.

I thought that people back then were extremely conservative?

yes they were around, brothels of all sorts were on every corner, mayhem ruled! homeless kids were kidnapped right and left. cops were in the hands of the criminals..

[quote] Were boy whorehouses really so open and accepted in the late 1800's?

Yes, in fact, there really was a gay nightclub/whorehouse called The Slide.

Sex, vice, prostitution was rampant from 1850-1920 and NYC was the biggest whorehouse in the nation. Here is a really good web-site that examines the history behind The Alienist. Orphaned children ran wild in the streets, they didn't have welfare or any social programs for the poor so children and even soldiers turned to prostitution.

[quote]R143 Were boy whorehouses really so open and accepted in the late 1800's? The show makes it seem as though they were as normal as regular brothels.

No. They were raided and the attendees prosecuted if they didn't buy someone off. You were sent to prison for gay acts.

It's also pretty sill when they show the boy whores out on the street in drag. It's not like you could just walk around back then, crossdressing. At the very least, people on the street would be outraged. If they didn't beat you to a pulp.

^^ "silly," not sill.

My great grandpa was a street whore in nyc in 1918....he said it was the best time of his fukking life. he was real cute and Teddy Roosevelt was his best client...LOVED EATING YOUNG ASS.

[quote]Teddy Roosevelt was his best client...LOVED EATING YOUNG ASS.

And his demonstrate that in excruciating detail.

It's a gorgeous, engrossing show. I almost hate deleting the episodes off my DVD after watching them.

I watch them over and over. The sets , etc are awesome. Hate to see it end. Hope they do his sequel to it. surely they will. can they recast it?

That slutty little boy whore was hilarious. I think that he was the one that got offed at the Statue of Liberty.

He went straight for the hottest guy in the room, aka the young Detective Sergeant.

"Buy us a bottle of champagne?"

"How old would you like (me to be)?"

"Lets go upstairs."

What a dirty little slut!

I never saw this scene.

Did Luke hook up with a boy whore?

Luke is the queen of the boy whores.

Luke IS a boy whore!

Douglas Smith isn't as cute as I thought he was...

R425, he has a cute butt. I’ll take him.

Douglas Smith looks like a young Christopher Walken, including the eye color.

Smith is more cute than hot, but I certainly wouldn't kick him out of bed! I think he's pretty tall, too. Like 6'2" or so. I dig it.

The producers have been playing a little trick with us.

When they first showed Willem in the pool watching the boys, they showed just his eyes and profile, and I swear it was Luke Evans' eyes and profile, which I assume was to throw us off.

Now they did the same thing with the real killer in the whorehouse.

When he was talking to Stevie, they only showed his profile, which was a scruffy beard, and I swear it looks like Kreizler's profile!

Am I crazy, or are they really doing this?

well, I didn't notice R429 but it's obviously not Kreizler since he's sitting in a carriage arguing with Sarah.

The dark peacoat and slightly long hair -- it looks like a sailor.. The killer likes heights and sailors climb the masts of ships to adjust the sails. I hadn't read the book in a while so I'm only guessing.

luv see luke take it up ass from that hot douglas

luke and his dirty hot asshole hungry fer chicken cock

there must be a way to view it while deleting the blonde ladys face when she comes on the screen. ugh.

It would be quite strange for Moore and Sarah to adopt Joseph.

Can you imagine when he gets older, how they would view him?

"Hey son, remember when you were a slutty little boy whore in your younger days? Boy, you used to turn tricks like nobody's business! My, how time has passed."

I don't think that there's going to be a happy ending for Joseph. How could there be?

R422, that's a girl whore, I think it's from the first episode.

The intro reminds me of the intro to HBOs Carnivale.....

am I wrong for wanting to eat Bruhls ass out?

On tonight's episode, Luke gets roofied again!

Well, more like he gets chlorophormed and kidnapped.

But does he get assraped again, like he did the first time? Poor Luke.

Tune in!

[quote]R421 That slutty little boy whore was hilarious. I think that he was the one that got offed at the Statue of Liberty. He went straight for the hottest guy in the room, aka the young Detective Sergeant..."Buy us a bottle of champagne?" / "How old would you like (me to be)?"/ "Lets go upstairs."..What a dirty little slut!

How very dare you. The poor little urchin just wants to make some money! He probably gets a commission on each bottle of champagne he sells, and surely for each customer he brings upstairs. He would most likely prefer to be playing ball in the street : (

The slutty little boy whore's name is Rosie. Get it right!

How much for a lap dance?

More boy whores!!!!

What Kevin said.

Kreisler is such a prissy bitch

This episode was a big crock of nothing! I want more action and (living)nudity!

God the direction and acting were parody level BAD in this last episode. I mean how many pregnant pauses can you have in one hour? It's either the background characters chewing up the scenery or the leads all trying very very hard to pronounce one word at a time while staring meaningfully into space.

It was an uneventful episode but they have finally focused on the killer. Not everything can be action and nudity, although Luke got beaten up again. Poor guy.

Luke shoulda been sucking on conners gun when it was in his face like the fairy he is

The soldier in next week's preview looks hot. Hope we get to see a lot of him.

How did I not notice that Ted Levine (aka Jame Gumb) is playing the policeman Byrnes?

Also - how did I not notice that this week's episode was written by the great John Sayles, who is also listed as a "consulting producer?"

This series is VERY good; TNT should be proud of itself.

I just checked imdb, and John Sayles is listed for either a writing or producing credit. However I am CERTAIN I saw his name in tonight's credits as "consulting producer" and "teleplay written by". Can someone who has it on DVR please verify? Thanks -

Make that "is NOT listed" - sorry!

I am really enjoying this series. Is it On Demand? I was half paying attention to the last two episodes due to important phone calls.

Were there two killers or was the wrong guy shot last week? The creep with the silver teeth, was he also a child killer?

episode 7 so goooood. will be sad when this xcellent show ends.

sequel!!!

Silver teeth was not the boy-whore killer. He was just a creep.

This show seems to be getting good ratings. You guys think they'll make a second season with the next book?

And for those who have read it- is John Moore in it? No other spoilers, please!

I hope so R455. I never read the second book but heard it's better. .

I just read TNT spends $5 million per episode. If they want to complete with AMC and Fx, it would be a good investment. But I remember Cinemax spent a lot of money on The Knick (set in the same period) and it only lasted 2 seasons.

I got the 2nd book in mail today from amazon: angel of darkness. seems to have same 3 major characters....his writing is kind of 'da vinci code' syle, "....but a page turner. kind of high school level tho....

why was the silver mouth van buren boy going to the docks?

not very good policemen. while the killer is chatting with the cop ho, the 2 cops are dilly dallying. and the 2 in the carriage are chatting...lousy cops!

And how did the killer drag Rosie to the top of the statue of liberty and throw her off so quick????

Love the jp morgan scene....was he in the boy brothel? looked like him in previous episode.

So many top rate actors in it. Cant get behind Bruhl's approach though, weak..

Yea, he talks like a ventrioloquist dummy.

the show comes to a crashing HALT WHEN HE IS ON.

R460 was Rosie thrown off the top? I thought he was killed and left at the base of the statue.

I had to watch it again. I am now thinking that the guy Marcus was chasing isn't the killer. How can he go back into the club and pick up Rosie, then go across the street, run to the top of the roof, hit Cyrus on his way to the Statue of Liberty? He would have to be Flash, the fastest human on Earth.

Remember when Moore said, "Unless,,,," at the very end of the episode? He's looking at an open window at the Slide which is opposite the building where Cyrus was hit. He didn't finish his sentence so maybe he meant "unless he's not the killer". The killer may have been watching them from that window and took his chance when everyone got distracted.

I don't know why some of you were saying that this was a boring episode. I thought it was a good one, and gave us a lot more information about the killer.

I guess some of you just aren't happy unless it's all boy whores, all the time.

[quote]all boy whores, all the time

Seriously considering this for the new DL motto.

cant get enuf of this show...compelling and georgous....acting aside, the look of it is rich and amazing. luke is gr8 as alwys

If I'm not mistaken, I thought that I actually saw someone walking a Labradoodle in one of the street scenes.

I didn't know that they had Labradoodles in 1896!

Oh, for CORN'S SAKE!

Luke actually is really good in this. Moore is struggling with his problems a bit but he comes across as a caring sensitive person overall, more so than pretty much any of the others. Honestly Kriezler is pretty mean to him considering he's a "psychiatrist"(or the early version of it) and they are supposed to be good friends , he's always putting him down.

I read the book when it first came out and honestly can’t remember much. Has this been faithful, thus far? The fake-out on the killer? Kreitzler's inner demons? Cyrus's niece?

I don't remember Cyrus niece. That's a 2018 SJW, a black woman in those days would not speak like that to a white man-- you kidding? Even if she were a woman today, that's downright rude. She had her education paid for, what more does she want? And Cyrus told Kriezler he didn't need to apologize. I don't know why that scene was put in there other than to make Kreizler look like a jerk.

the alienist actor is a missed opportunity, he is very muddled this one...when he on I go refill the bong.

fanning is ok..she is growing on me, full of surprises...

I thought I was going crazy, because I think Bruhl is genuinely terrific in that, but people here shit on him all the time. But hey, thanks, trolldar - it's just one person talking to him/herself.

I like Bruhl in this. I don't think Laszlo is supposed to be that exciting or sympathetic- unlike John Moore- he's more of cold fish type character and that's what we're getting.

Is the book Laszlo completely different? Bruhls doing fine.

[quote]R473 Has this been faithful, thus far? The fake-out on the killer?

I don't remember that being in the book. I think they added it to pad out the series, because actually, not a whole lot of solid PLOT happens in the book. It's more like a grownup HARDY BOYS / NANCY DREW escapade.

HOLE OF THE MURDERER

Does anyone know why Kreizler asked everyone to clear the room, and then took the scalpel and stabbed Rosie's corpse with it?

And then he said something in German.

Can anyone explain these two things?

R472, it makes sense that Kriezler is ‘mean’ to Moore; he is completely jealous of him, his position, his looks. You can sense the secret delight in Kriezler when he tells Moore that he is merely handsome and useless, or at least that’s what Sara thinks of him. He, as a psychologist, knows Moore is a conflicted and insecure person, and that this assessment would wound.

R480, he always speaks of getting into the killers mind, and I think he was trying to glean from the experience of stabbing...

I assume r479’s pic is Luke after the boy whores are done with him.

R481 It does make sense, but it's still pretty awful considering he's supposed to be his friend. Just another example of "Doctor heal thyself" I suppose.

[quote]And for those who have read it- is John Moore in it? No other spoilers, please!

Yes, he’s in it. I hope they make the sequel book too. Different story but arguably a more interesting one.

I’ve read and reread both books over the years so they’re still pretty fresh in my memory.

*SPOILERS* I guess... Cyrus’s niece is entirely an invention of the show. I guess they felt they had to address Kriezler employing a black man through our modern lens but there’s more backstory to all of his employees in the book. Kriezler met Cyrus, Mary, and Steve while serving as an expert witness in their various criminal trials; all were without family or means. He took them on as employees but they are much more like a family in the books.

Stevie would make a great boy whore.

He should consider other means of employment.

I think the young actor who plays Stevie is very good, has a career ahead of him.

Whomever wrote bruhl's dialogue don't like him. sounds like he underwater

I agree R486, he's been really strong and impressive.

I agree. his portrayl is a diss ass ter.

His voice kills me. Sounds like his throat is full of cumwads.

"His voice kills me. Sounds like his throat is full of cumwads."

It often is.

Yes,

Luke is a smoker which is why his face looks so old.

bruhl's marble filled mouth sounds like he is a candidate for throat cancer. alas...

CHAIN SMOKER

Tonight's a new episode. How many are left?

I really hope that they pick up the pace!

There are three episodes left, including the one tonight

Oh no! Only three? I really love this series and hate to see it end.

Best show on. the sets: omg. be used in the sequel I presume.

RATINGS SO FAR AHEAD OF VERSACE ITS PITIFUL. FAIL

I love this show, too!

I"m going to miss seeing Luke on my screen every week.

Up until now, I haven't really gotten to know him as an actor, aside from his Bard character in Lord of the Rings.

I've grown to like him.

Luke is truly a terrible actor.

Only according to you, r499

Wow. Interesting episode...

oh, Mary!

Happiness so so fleeting.

I liked that they had outdoor scenes. Beautiful outdoor landscape, imagine it was filmed in Hungary or Romania.

How long did it actually take to travel from NYC to Little Big Horn in Montana? I imagine it was a month's journey, it would be unrealistic for the brothers to show up next week.

Not in the 1890s. A one way NYC to San Francisco trip would’ve taken about three days then. Yes, Montana is more remote but even on a regional line it would be around five days.

The Indian Wars didn’t completely end until the 1920s, IIRC. FYI.

MARY!

indeed. luke makes the show and acts the pants off all the other men...whom are fugs.

new episode on now!!!!

yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gawd. The kid playing Roosevelt is too young and green.

Icky

The actor is over 40- so he's not a kid. But he does look young, like 34 or so How old was Roosevelt at that time?

Is Bruhl trying to effect some kind of British accent? I cant understand half his lines....

Connors needs to die slowly. He's such a creep.

What actor are you talking about, R510? Roosevelt was 38 years old when he became Police Commissioner.

I think I followed tonight's episode but tell me if I'm wrong- Japheth (sp?) Dury killed his preacher father and overbearing mother and the guy who raped him-George something (I forgot). Then changed his name to John same-last-name-as-his-rapist, joined the army, stabbed a kid to death in Chicago (and had a boner while doing so), got discharged and sent to the mental hospital in DC. And then he was released from there? Or did he escape?

But he went to NYC and started killing boys. Cutting off their hands and taking out the eyes like the Indians, whom he hated because his mom told him he was one of their bastards. Or does he like/respect the native Americans b/c he hated his mom and identified with them? Actually, he probably just copied the pictures his father used to show him...

Regardless, it was neat to see everyone figure out who this guy is.

'drenched in blood....his cock stiff as a flagpole'.....wow its nasty wild 2nit....

yea, the Roosevelt guy another miscast lad in the show.....looks 18.

WHAT THE FUKS WRONG WITH BRUHL'S THROAT???

Yes, R514. That's what I deduced. Japeth changed his name to Robert or Richard Beecham.

Sounds right, R514.

That's pretty much what I got from the episode, too.

John Beecham, not Robert. He was released from St Elizabeth's, he didn’t escape. He used habeas corpus to secure his release.

John’s father took photographs of the Indian murders to use in his ministry. That’s how the child John saw them during why he copied them. You’re spot on about the rest r514.

I'm so sad about Mary.

I was hoping that there would be a happy ending with her and Kreizler, but I guess not.

There’s something about Mary?

Did Cyrus get stabbed? Or did he stab the other guy? I thought I heard a squelchy stabbing sound.

Cyrus got chloroformed, Stevie got chloroformed, Mary got tossed off the second floor, John and Laszlo got shot at, and Laszlo got a broken leg.

Damn!!

For once John wasn't the most beat up person in the episode. :) He's such a nice guy, Luke plays him very well.

loving this. There is something oddly European about the interiors (I actually have been in some of the rooms these scenes take place and they just seem off. Minor quibble And I mean the Morgan Library, not the whore houses

I feel the same way, R523!

I want to be friends with John. He's such a nice guy. And that's all Luke, by the way.

I enjoyed the book, but this series feels lackluster to me. I think a 2-hour film would have been better.

526 = Scott Rudin

I keep reading the title as “The Allergist”. That doesn’t seem like an anteresting show. Sometimes I see “The Analyst”, which seems richer in potential.

When I look up the Alienist on IMDB, it says Season 1, Episode (whatever).

Maybe there really will be a season 2 because it was so successful.

Was it ever explained why John stopped drinking?

That whole aspect of John's story was really clear. All I know is that he was a heavy drinker in the first few episodes, and then he quits cold turkey.

I mean, what really was the point of the drinking part of his storyline? It didn't do anything to advance the plot of the series.

There are a weird amount of subplots that don’t seem to actually figure into the main story. John's drinking, Douglas Smith's girlfriend's baby...

Douglas needs to show his twink ass again.

[quote] Was it ever explained why John stopped drinking?

I assume because he has a thing for Sarah. After he joked about proposing to her, he realized he really likes her.

I broke up with THE ALIENIST.

It was coming for a while; it got stale. I though Sean Young would save our relationship. She didn't.

The whole thing became a mockery and I am moving on. I can see where it's going and it isn't pretty. Now, with a few weeks distance, it doesn't hurt any more. I occassionally wonder what's going on with him, but he's better for someone else. I GAVE HIM SO MANY CHANCES.

It just stopped working...And looking back, honestly, it [italic]never[/italic] worked.

John stopped drinking after he got ass raped by the boy whores.

I mean, who among us hasn't had one of those nights where we woke up the next morning and said to ourselves, "I've got to fucking quit drinking."

That's probably what happened to John.

If I’d been raped by a cadre of boy-whores, I imagine I’d be drinking more.

I thing [italic]The Golden Girls[/italic] solving this case would be more interesting.

[quote] I thing The Golden Girls solving this case would be more interesting

I think that Aliens from outer space solving the case would be interesting.

At least the title of the show would make sense.

If I had been raped by boy whores I’d be going back for more.

r539, you forgot to sign your post as Bryan Singer!

Tonight is the second to the last episode.

I'm so bummed! Really have loved this series.

I would love to marry a man like John Moore. Or Luke Evans. Or both.

He's so cute.

I'm curious how this is going to end.

Laszlo is going to be devastated about Mary's death.

[quote]Laszlo is going to be devastated about Mary's death.

Yes, but how will we be able to tell? Will he breath a little harder in his scenes or something?

Maybe Laszlo will discover that he was really in love with John all along, and they'll live together in that big house, happily ever after.

Now that's MY kind of ending!

Laszlo and John are quite the "dandy" couple...

Gurl!

They can raise Stevie together.

[quote] They can raise Stevie together.

And don't forget Joseph the boy whore!

Stevie and Joseph need a spin-off sitcom of their own: Boy Whores. Someone hire Alan Thicke to write the '80s theme song.

Ugh, that was pretty bloody.

People got away with murder in those days. The guy was butchering people and made a bloody mess. And the people who killed Mary are getting away with murder. I think Doyle, the younger cop helping Connor is kinda hot but he's an ugly racist.

What is the deal with Lazlo stabbing himself? Is he a cutter?

I'm surprised John let Sara leave the clubhouse alone at night. Where was he or the brother cops? I may have missed something.

Uh oh Joseph. I have a feeling he's a goner even if the team find him alive.

No, not Joseph!

He's supposed to live happily ever after.

Ah, so Kreizler deformed his own arm because he hated his father, who was abusive?

He has something in common with the murdered boys, but I'm not sure if that has any significance.

And to think, Joseph probably would've been alright had John not given him the money.

So is it Spring time, Summer time, or Fall, or what?

Last episode when they went upstate, the leaves were changing colors, which implies Fall.

This episode, the kids are playing in the streets with the fire hydrants and water, implying Summer.

But the holidays they are circling on the calendar are all taking place in Spring.

Can the show really be this careless with the details?

Maxie the boy whore seemed kind of old for the killer.

The first three were much younger.

r555, in the book, Kreizler's father throws him down the stairs, which damages his arm. There is a comparison on how Kreizler and how "John Beechham" coped with their abuses.

This is a better show than the production team think.

If a UK network bought it and edited it into five one hour episodes shown in one week Monday to Friday (or even seven Mon - Sun) it would be a huge hit.

Nobody takes those kind of chances now though.

Would Kreizler be the same name as Chrysler, except that it's "Americanized?"

[QUOTE] R557 So is it Spring time, Summer time, or Fall, or what? Last episode when they went upstate, the leaves were changing colors, which implies Fall. This episode, the kids are playing in the streets with the fire hydrants and water, implying Summer. But the holidays they are circling on the calendar are all taking place in Spring. Can the show really be this careless with the details?

I think that the production is pretty clear on the dates as all of the murders take place on Christian feast days. This week's murder was on The Feast of Saint Barnabas which is June the 11th, in Summer. They are at great pains to point out the date in every episode.

Pretty certain that the events occur over several years not just one, so you will see Spring,Summer, Fall and Winter.

That's kind of a stretch, R562, but if you say so.

The way that they point out the holidays on the calendar make it seem that they are consecutive, which means that they would fall roughly within one or two seasons.

The show has made it pretty clear that the murders are taking place one after another, in the span of a few weeks. So I don't buy the "over the course of a few years" argument.

A couple of weeks (at least) passed by just in the course of episode 9. I'd agree that they didn't make it clear when exactly Mary died and was buried, as I haven't (yet!) read the book I can't add any info.

I don't get the impression that it is delineated that the murders took place over a very short space of time though.

I had read the book years ago when it came out and had totally forgotten it. It has some long slow stretches but has a boffo ending. This series is great, and I'm sure they will do justice to it.

Anyone remember the details of the sequel, THE ANGEL OF DARKNESS?

I haven’t read this whole thread.

I watched two episodes of the show and was bored. Should I continue or will it be a waste of time?

Honestly, if you didn’t like the first two episodes, you should probably give the rest a pass. It’s been consistent, if nothing else; pretty much on par with itself, week to week.

I really like the book and at first was disappointed but it's grown on me. The awkwardness of Dr. Laszlo now seems to suit the character. And I can just laugh at moon face Sara aka Dakota Fanning as she gets slapped around, sometimes literally, by the insane doctor. Also I'm enjoying Luke Evans in this and the whole New York setting.

Too bad they were unable to shoot in NYC, the series was shot in Budapest. Then again, the buildings etc would have had to be fixed in CGI, that NYC is long gone.

It's cute how much John loves Joseph. Joseph better not die!

Spoiler alert: Joseph turns out to be the boy whore who does all the raping.

SPOILERS

It didn't make sense that Kreizler insisted on going to the opera and to another area where he thought the killer was without telling Roosevelt and Sarah. It was a messy way to wrap up the other sub-plot that involving Byrnes and Connor.

R572 I didn’t get the opera thing either. And the clinking of the glasses at the end to denote friendship seemed rushed.

I did like that Sarah and Lazlo resolved their differences. Despite John proclaiming his love for Sarah, I think she still has a a thing for Lazlo as she's into rescuing people. But will never know as nothing has been confirmed for season 2.

I think a better ending would have been Laszlo murdering the young cop involved in Mary’s death, partly out of revenge, but mostly out of his obsession to understand the mind of a killer.

I can’t see the second season using the 2nd book unless they make the period between books 1 and 2 the next year rather than 20+ years later.

A second season seems likely. They built a 10 block set in Budapest so it’s easy enough to start filming again. My guess is the script is ready to go and filming will happen late spring through the summer.

It was a well acted scene with Sarah and Lazlo where they opened up about their childhood horrors.

So after all that "We got to find Joseph!!" stuff after he was found they went to dinner and never mentioned him again.

Moore lamented that he could’ve taken Joseph in after he went missing, so it seemed inferred that he took care of him in some way once he was saved..

Book readers- did Mary die in the book? Was there a Joseph character? any good subplots left out or major changes for the show?

I thought this was a good miniseries. Maybe 'slow' for some people, but it looked great and had an interesting plot. Plus I greatly enjoyed seeing Luke Evans. The finale could've been maybe ten minutes longer- it felt a little rushed at he end for me. I'm glad Sara and John didn't end up engaged or together.

I'd love to have another season.

Netflix has bought it to air but not sure if it will become a Netflix series. They have the resources and we don't have to be exposed to endless commercials on TNT.

Really enjoyed this series! It was miles better than anything I would expect to see on TNT!

I found the staging of the climax with Joseph underwhelming. It's been a long time since I read the novel, but my recollection is that in the book, Joseph was holding the boy with a knife to his neck and Kreizler, Moore, and Sara had to talk him down and overpower him. But maybe I remember it incorrectly.

Thank God our heroes stopped the killer. Now the boy prostitutes can have sex with all the pedophiles safely again. Praise Be! It was difficult for the boy prostitutes to focus on pleasing the pedophiles with that pesky Beechum about. Whew!

SPOILER: Joseph dies in the book. Mary Palmer's backstory is as the series portrays it, however in the book she is described as having piercing blue eyes, and can also speak a few words and make sounds.

r580, Yes Mary dies and yes there was a Joseph character, but he dies in the book. They were fairly faithful to the book. I would love to see, "Angel of Darkness" because the villain is so much more interesting.

So wil Joseph and Stevie live happily ever after together now?

r587, well in the sequel, Stevie get entangled with a female coke addicted prostitute.

More prostitution, [R588]? Wow, you’d think the writer (and the team now doing the series) might want to move away from more prostitution themes in the sequel and if they do a new season...

Muddy and messy ending. The book was much clearer about the sequence of events.

I enjoyed the finale overall and thought it was pretty solid, but like you, [R590], I thought it felt bit muddled and messy (as well as rushed towards the end).

I really think a 2 hour finale would have been much better and given the show the time it actually needed to tie up all the loose ends properly (and not in a jumbled, rushed way) and make the ending and character interactions more satisfactory.

r589, it's more of a diversion than the main plot. The novel is told from Stevie's point of view- The Alienist was told from John's.

Great show. Just binge watched from episode 5 to 10. I have not yet read the book and at first I didn't like Dakota Fanning's performance at all, but I do think it does make sense that she is this emotionally stunted shrew who acts like the boys, because that's how she was raised and how she feels she has to be in order to be part of the police force (also because of how her father died).

Just finished the finale of this great series and I miss it already. The episode prior to the finale was exceptionally creepy toward the end in the bathhouse or whatever it was. I had no problem with Dakota Fanning' s performance and Luke Evans as Jon was gorgeous and he played his role really well. I agree with the commenter who said Angel of Darkness should be next - I'll never forget the villain in it.

What was wonderful about the books was the great detail they went into about NYC at the time. The majority of the first book takes place in the east Village, Astor Place and Union Square areas. So many of the buildings that are in the books still exist. i went and searched them out. The sequel takes place in the West Village. So much detail, I lived on West 11th street at the West Side Highway and my block was in the book. It made it so real to me. The area was very rough in the 19th century. It consisted of warehouses, prisons, saloons and brothels. There was a railroad along the west side highway back then. If the rich people living in those brownstones only knew that whores walked the halls over a 100 years ago!

reading the 2nd book, angels of darkness, is such fun....as I imagine luke, Dakota, etc in the parts...running around trying to find the baby killer.

wish the 3rd book, surrender ny, could be part 3, but it takes place in modern day, dammit.

Is there really talk of replacing bruhl as his voice/zombie mode of acting was a disaster?

R597

He was awesome, so stop with your insane attacks.

Agreed, r595. I read both books shortly after I moved to NYC and one of my favorite things to do in my downtime (and at the time, I had plenty of it) was hop on the subway from Inwood and seek out all the buildings/landmarks in the books. To this day, I'm a sucker for any book or movie set in NYC during this period.

Part two, if interested