HANDMAID'S TALE, THREAD 2: Off-Season, Awards and Season 2 Discussion

I know -- I'm a cunting cunt worse than Twitler or Lisa Rinna fir that typo.

[quote]Will the Commader or Nick believably emote?

While I like Fiennes as the commander, they both are people who are better acting without trying to put on an American accent.

I can't remember, was there a bitch fest in the last thread about how the cast has a lot of people pretending to be American?

Joseph Fiennes, Yvonne Strahovski, O. T. Fagbenle, Max Minghella. Usually DL is good about bitching about that.

Okay, my $0.02 on racism and "Handmaid's Tale"....

Granted, the current crop of conservative GOP politicians are racist AF. And many many dominionists among that crowd are. But these particular dominionists appear to be stamped from a different mold - the lack of racism, the heavy environmentalist angle, etc.

If people can no longer reproduce, perhaps these christians decided to let their racism go for the sake of survival.

[quote]If people can no longer reproduce, perhaps these christians decided to let their racism go for the sake of survival.

Agree with this. There are hardly any children being born, so if the baby is mixed race they don't care. Most of the handmaids are white though and the few black there are, they look like Samira. Excuse this, but you don't see any fat ghetto Mo'niques.

I don't think so but it's never to late for a DL bitchfest

That's was directed to r2.

R4 to be fair, nor any Huckabee Sanders types. Mooooooo

[quote]I can't remember, was there a bitch fest in the last thread about how the cast has a lot of people pretending to be American?

I don't remember there being a bitch fest about non-Americans playing Americans. I have seen bitch fests about that in other show threads.

We are on Episode 3 of this in the UK.

I know the book well and am really enjoying it, especially the extra lesbian scenes.

Offred's nose in profile is just grim, though, and distracts me from what they're saying. There's no need for a big hooked nose like that in 2017 when rhinoplasties are two a penny.

Serena Joy will never rule Gilead. I can see her trying to get some leadership role when the war happens and the men abuse her.

I hope Atwood is involved in Season 2. Maybe she will write a sequel to THT.

Does Atwood have a producer cred on this?

R11 supervising producer

The old thread seriously hit 600 posts? Man, the finale must have generated quite a bit of discussion.

I too liked the race-neutral take.

I agree it would happen that way, but I don't care if it's realistic, I care if it works in the world of the story.

And it made the story even creepier.

I also don't mind the change regarding race from the book. I do wonder about why the Hulu producers decided to make June's husband black.

I have a feeling Moss will win the Emmy.

I want to see Aunt Lydia's backstory, I see her as a trainer in a big corporation, or some sort of New-Age Goddess type (there was some Goddess imagery in Gilead). I also hope we see June's mother, because she was a fairly big part of the book.

[quote]It's great to see a show where race is not a factor at all.

It's a stupid misstep. That a terrorist splinter group, the sons of Jacob, based on puritan ideals would abandon their traditional racist ways in a few short years is unbelievable in the extreme. The Atwood book makes it clear that it is all about White fertility, not general fertility. It's my one bone of contention with his series.

[quote]perhaps these christians decided to let their racism go for the sake of survival.

Yeah, right, like world wars and all other calamities in the past century helped wipe away traditional racism. Right? Wrong.

[quote]Maybe she will write a sequel to THT.

She DID write an additional part of the final lecture from the year 2195, and it was acted out by two actors and broadcast on NPR.

R15, maybe because mixed race babies are known to be stronger, more healthy and more likely to thrive.

The Symposium in the Epilogue of Atwood's novel features professors with Native American names like Running Deer. I wonder how they will work that in.

Crescent moon too. The symposium occurs in Nunavut too, a place with no known university in our timeline.

The scenes in the deserted maternity hospital were so powerful.

When was that?

[quote]I have a feeling Moss will win the Emmy.

I think she should, though Claire Foy from "The Crown" will be stiff competition.

they should have Claire Foy play a role in Handmaid considering how many brits there are in the show

It's an allegory. It doesn't have to be the way it "would". It's talking about the way things are.

the book varies in that one key way though.

I think Atwood is going to write a sequel to THT and the screenplay will be the first step towards that. She LOVES her dystopian world building, although THT is still the best world she created - over 30 years ago. It all got a bit complicated in Oryx and Crake, and practically incomprehensible after that.

I loved that trilogy. but Handmaid's tale is functionally better

Alexis Bledel will be back for season 2.

They left her fate open ended so I figured she would be back.

I guess this means she wasn't shot after all. Having her die off-camera seems odd for a show that doesn't flinch at violence.

She will be converted into an auntie

I'll admit that I liked how it ended.

Tonight is the season finale for those of us who watch the show on Bravo.

I saw it

this dropped out of sight

The Epilogue also states that Waterford was killed in one of the Great Purges, if I remember rightly.

indeed, it does

I will watch the second season just because I'm waiting for Aunt Lydia to get what's coming to her. She is such a great evil villain.

will she be slapped?

Why any woman would want to be a handmaid is beyond me!

The alternative was prostitution or the labour camps in the novel, R44.

or death

Well, the labor camps ARE death, since what they're doing there is cleaning up toxic (probably nuclear) waste. I doubt they get much in the way of protective equipment while doing it, either...

We are still watching the first season in the UK - it's on about Episode 5 or 6.

Looking forward to her meeting up with Moira again at Jezebel's. Hope they haven't cut that scene or changed it too much.

nope, you're in for a surprise

I love the way they've expanded it and brought in all the peripheral characters like June's husband.

I regret that they have moved so far beyond the scope of the book

Season 2 will have 13 episodes

If Luke is still alive, won't June have a big crisis about who to be with? In the book it makes it clear that she's fallen in love with Nick and she forgets about Luke. She's pregnant with Nick's baby, too.

I'm sure that will be a big part of the plot in season 2 as June was indeed pregnant with nick's child at the end of season 1.

This is the first major "prestige" success for Hulu isn't it? I loved the show

I've read the book and watched the series, but, by far, my favorite iteration of THT is Claire Danes reading the audiobook. SO good. I can't recommend it highly enough, especially if you're a fan of either the book or the TV series.

Hi Claire!

Claire looks like an auntie

Claire and Elisabeth - both successful actors despite having huge hook noses.

Looks like Elisabeth Moss, Ann Dowd and Samira Wiley have all been nominated for an Emmy

13 noms for the show including dramatic series

Yvonne Strahovski deserved more than Wiley. I would've chosen Brewer over Wiley too

I agree R60, especially Madeline Brewer

[quote]Yvonne Strahovski deserved more than Wiley. I would've chosen Brewer over Wiley too

Yes, agree wholeheartedly. Wiley had trouble sounding out all the notes required of Moira - great at the brash aspects, stumbled a bit with the quieter stuff. What was asked of Strahovski was more complex, and she nailed it completely. Brewer was also devastating in her role.

give them all a hand

Have any DL'ers on this thread seen Top of the Lake with Elisabeth Moss? Is it worth the binge?

I've watched it R64 and thought it was ok....Elisabeth Moss is good in it but it got a little slow sometimes imo. It's only like 6 episodes though so worth a try! The second season will also feature Nicole Kidman

I wish Moss would have a nose job. Her nose is too distracting in profile and you can see them trying their best with lighting and angles to make it less obvious.

Thanks, r65, will do!

[quote]Yvonne Strahovski deserved more than Wiley. I would've chosen Brewer over Wiley too

I agree. Strahovski and Brewer deserved nominations more than Wiley. I was really happy to see Ann Dowd get a nod.

I really need to see Moss win. She's due to win ; past due in fact

she really needs this break

Why does Moss keep her nose the way it is? It's all you can focus on when she's filmed in profile and makes her look way older and scarier than she is.

I like it, it reminds me of a friend

Would she look better if she had her nose fixed? Absolutely. But in this era of so many actresses hopelessly mucking up their faces, I actually admire Moss for not having anything done to it, since you *know* she's been nagged relentlessly throughout her career to do something about it.

she's a tough cookie

Where exactly ARE "the colonies"? Puerto Rico and other Caribbean islands?

No, R75, they're parts of the continental United States that have been affected by fallout from nukes/bioweapons/pollution.

R76, I don't think there were any nukes used in the formation of Gilead. The Congress, Justice Department and White House were apparently wiped out, though, but it was never specifically detailed.

[quote]The world Atwood has created is a radiation-soaked one with chemicals all over the air and the water. The causes of this are wars (especially the use of nuclear weapons), pollution, and a general collection of irresponsible actions against nature.

Yes, R78, but that was in the book. In the series there's no indication that there's been a nuclear conflict. The Gilead "commanders" seem to have gotten into power through use of conventional weapons.

In the book, the regime takes advantage of the plastic money culture to disenfranchise women. This would be even easier these days. All they would need to do would be take over the internet. In 1985, when the book was published, there were still 'money in the mattress' types around who would have had savings at home.

In her speech to the Mexicans Serena Joy made a big deal about how the regime had significantly reduced pollution, specifically the carbon footprint. This would not have been possible if a nuke had been set off. I think they're purposely holding off the possibility of a nuclear strike until the last few episodes of whenever the series will end.

I'm pretty sure Moss already has had a *subtle* nose job. Go back and take a look at her in "Virgin", if you can find it.

Anyway, her nose doesn't bother me. I think it's great that a non-Hollywood-pretty actress got the lead. I've noticed this actually more and more lately and it's about time, in a world were Will Ferrell and Jeremy Renner are allowed to be leading men.

R82, she still wouldn't be chocolate box pretty if she got a nose job, but at the moment it's distracting and you can see the director trying to film around it and blur it out.

Alexis Bledel won a guest star Emmy. I wasn't expecting her to win. I guess this might might mean than Moss and Dowd will win in their categories next Sunday.

Alexis winning is a sign this show might clean up come up the main Emmy Show.

In the second episode, I thought I saw a man, hanging, with a hood over his head, with a Star of David on it. Do they execute Jews, too?

[quote]Alexis winning is a sign this show might clean up come up the main Emmy Show.

And this proved to be true.

R86

"In the early days of Gilead, Jews were accorded special status as “Sons of Jacob,” and they had the choice of converting or emigrating to Israel. Some people pretended to be Jewish and escaped Gilead that way. Many Jews left, but others pretended to convert or refused to convert; now those who did not truly convert are hanged when caught."

Thank you, R88.

It's very Trumpian, but there isn't a megalomaniacat the center of every episode.

This is the only TV show I know of, except Orange is the New Black, maybe, with a majority female cast. Just different, not complaining.

Though, I did enjoy Spartacus, with a majority male, half naked, cast. Hmm. Maybe I shall binge watch that again.

People smoke a lot there. Does that mean anything?

[quote]In the second episode, I thought I saw a man, hanging, with a hood over his head, with a Star of David on it. Do they execute Jews, too?

Yes, if they won't convert to Christianity, they must either self-deport to Israel - or be executed.

Is there only one season so far? I'm disappointed as I binge watched the first season.

Yes, just one season, R93, so far. I stopped watching after the 5th episode. Does it get any better?

R94, I liked it, so I would say "yes". I generally like alternate histories, though.

It is disturbing, though. Especially with recent history. The current President fetishizes the police and military. The police are already militarized with all the equipment. Trump simply states whatever he wants; he lies all the time, and he gets away with it.

Now we have an extended travel ban. I would support a N. Korea travel ban. But not the other countries unless I learned more. Those countries need help from wealthy Americans. Everything Trump does is suspect, as he is, simply, a jackass.

Can someone provide a link to Thread One? there are a zillion Handmaid's Tale threads when a search is done.

Link to Thread One:

I’m so behind but I just finished watching the first season. It was truly excellent and a very worthy adaptation of a great book. Elisabeth Moss is fantastic. She reminds me a lot of Jodie Foster in her Accused days. The whole cast was really good—Strahovski, Dowd, Wiley, Bledel. And I love Max Minghella. I want him to impregnate me.

The only less-than-great aspect to the show for me is the music selection. It feels obvious and uninspired. Simple Minds, Tom Petty. It often took me out of the story unnecessarily.

Haunting first look at Season 2; now with 25% more bleakness.

That pic looks fucking creepy.

i cant watch anything remotely attached to the fuckery of scientology....

as miss moss is.

weird.

I love it, despite it diverging so much from the book

[quote]The only less-than-great aspect to the show for me is the music selection. It feels obvious and uninspired. Simple Minds, Tom Petty. It often took me out of the story unnecessarily.

I agree with this. I recently did a rewatch of season 1 and I sometimes muted some of the songs.

First trailer for the new season.

Marisa Tomei to Guest Star in Colony-Set Episode

I just binge-watched this and it's one of the first shows in eons that lived up to all the hype.

Absolutely addictive and perfectly rendered. I even bought the book... we'll see if I read it (all).

Not a Moss fan (hate her Scientology connection) but she was quite perfect. Ironically, I think Erika Christensen could have made an equally good June/Offred... no? I mean, in TRAFFIC she did Oscar-worthy work and certainly can "go there" dramatically. I'm actually still haunted by her scenes in that, 20 years later.

Anyway, every single actor really brought it and made this something special. Ditto set design/direction. There's nothing quite like it (that I know of, at least).

BLACK MIRROR remains the best show on TV, but this was excellent and worthy of the accolades. Bravissimi.

Another teaser.

Premieres April 25th.

I LOVED the book but don't like this for a few reasons. Most significant of which is that the book had a much more nuanced take of the women. Serena Joy, Aunt Lydia, and women in all the castes were trapped and hated the system in their own way. A key theme of the book is that in a patriarchal world, no woman can thrive, even ones with unique privilege.

The book is a much more black white tale of how all religion is evil and all women who don't support the handmaidens are evil

Full season 2 trailer.

Reviews of season 2 are coming in, and they are quite good.

Sepinwall was a fan

[quote]‘The Handmaid’s Tale’ Gets Even Darker — And Better — In Season Two

[quote]'The Handmaid's Tale' expands bleak vision in searing new season

'The Handmaid’s Tale season 2 remains as difficult to watch as it is to resist'

The AV Club gave it a B+ for the first six episodes and that title is exactly how I feel about this show.

I hope Serena Joy gets mutilated by the one eyed chick.

The first two episodes of the season were really good. I felt quite sad after watching the second episode and seeing how the gays and lesbians were treated.

There are two to watch r114? Nice.

R113, I thought she jumped off a bridge?

The character is still alive r116, I haven't watched season 2 yet but the promotion for this season made that clear.

yeah, Janine survived the jump and her execution (death by stoning) that was supposed to take place for attempting to harm her child

R115 Yep, there are two episodes released. Since there are 13 episodes this season, the remaining episodes will be released one a week and the season is dragged out into July.

Ann Dowd was terrific in the premiere and if she is consistent- I see her getting another Emmy. Alexis Bledel in episode 2 was terrific, but I'm guessing she won't be considered a guest star as it seems her character will have a bigger role. She might end up competing against Dowd in the supporting category.

So far so good. The second episode was hard to watch though

Damn, the first two episodes are good, and upsetting as expected. This show makes my body numb it’s so intense. I happen to love Elizabeth Moss. She’s really so fucking perfect in this show.

Alexis Bledel steals the show for me, she's wonderful and that second episode, just heartbreaking.

In the second episode, I wish they would have explained more about Emily's son. I'm guessing it was the wife's egg. Or, was it an embryonic adoption?

If it was Emily son from her egg, that meant she could get pregnant and become a Handmaid. They weren’t gonna let her leave the country.

Episode 2 of Season 2 was absolutely brutal, and I totally agree with the earlier comments about Alexis Bledel. She is such a terrific actress and never overplays her role, which makes her scenes all the more powerful.

[quote]I will watch the second season just because I'm waiting for Aunt Lydia to get what's coming to her. She is such a great evil villain.

I don't think she'll get what's coming to her this season. I suspect that the writers of the show will drag it out until the series finale and same with Serena Joy. I think the event at the colonies in episode 2 was done by the writers to give the audience some satisfaction about certain people in the Gilead getting what they deserve. It will be a long wait for Lydia, SJ, and the Puntnam wife to get what they deserve.

I had no clue that the Gilead wife that Emily killed was Marisa Tomei until I rewatched it

I thought Aunt Lydia was turning good.

Why did she cut her ear when she cut her hair?

I don't think I can take a whole season of women being treated horribly. A uplifting musical number is needed...

She removed her tag, R129. When June was first brought in to be a handmaid, she was tagged like a farm animal. At the time I assumed it was also a tracking device, but that’s apparently not the case. It just identifies her.

I have a bad feeling about June’s cute little boyfriend. I don’t think he’s going to make it out of this season alive. I also have a hunch that she’s going to be given an opportunity to escape, but turn it down at the last minute because she’s afraid to leave without her daughter.

[quote]I thought Aunt Lydia was turning good.

Aunt Lydia is a true believer, one of the few we've seen on the show - when she does horrible shit to the handmaids, she truly believes it's for their own good, in the service of what is right. That's how she can hit them with a cattle prod one minute and show the gentlest concern for them the next. By her definition, she IS 'good'. But if you mean that somehow she was coming around to seeing things the way June and others do, to having sympathy for their plight - I doubt that will ever happen.

I think you're right about Aunt Lydia, r131. I can't wait to hear her back story. Considering the way she is now, I bet there's got to be some powerful born-again shit in her past life.

I don't like watch it any more

depressing and boring, same old downer shit.

plus ms moss is a $tologist,,,,ugh

My theory is that when there is some Mayday vs Gilead war, the Mayday people will kidnap Aunt Lydia and stone or beat her to death. I beat she'll begging for her life.

Hey guys: quick question (I haven’t read the thread because I don’t want spoilers, and am about to start watching S2 in a few hours).

I watched S1 during a binge weekend. Hulu had already completed airing all of S1, so all the episodes were available on Hulu, just like Netflix. Can I also binge S2, or does Hulu add a new episode every week?

TIA!

First 2 are available. After that a new episode every Wednesday.

Thanks, R136. I was just reading about their distribution model. I’ll wait until they have more episodes added, and binge on Homeland.

I’m in quite a lazy mood today and plan on spending the day zoning out in front of the TV.

Oh. Brandy is the daughter and Ruby just appeared.

oops. Wrong thread. You guys should have watch Ash vs The Evil Dead.

[quote] I want to see Aunt Lydia's backstory, I see her as a trainer in a big corporation, or some sort of New-Age Goddess type (there was some Goddess imagery in Gilead).

She was originally much beloved Datalounger Nan Michiganwomyn, aka The Mainstay of Michfest.

For years her fearsome will was directed only towards not tolerating lateness towards breastcasting seminars for wimmin of color and towards clearly stating boundaries for Rainsong to heed; but when the revolution of Gilead came, she decided she had a new calling, and became Aunt Lydia.

[quote]I want to see Aunt Lydia's backstory, I see her as a trainer in a big corporation

Funny I saw the first ep of the season last night and thought she was probably an HR person.

I remember a scene from season 1 where June and her friend pass Lydia in the street before shit went down. They were in jogging attire and Lydia gives them a sneering side eye thinking “whores”.

Were the aunts recruited from groups of older unmarried women? The Martha who lived in the Waterford house had a son who died, but I can't remember if she was married or not.

When does that cunt Cherry Jones show up this season? She's only doing this show for Emmy bait.

Unsurprisingly, the show has already been renewed for a Season 3.

Episode 3 was a wild roller coaster. Anyone watch?

You're an early bird, R145. I plan to watch Episode 3 tonight.

[quote]Were the aunts recruited from groups of older unmarried women

I would assume that were unmarried women who were drawn to the Sons of Jacob movement even before they took over. The true believers.

I just got finished watching episode 3. I had mixed views on it. It was good to see how Moira was doing in Canada and I was sad when the former soldier told her his story.

I don't watch scientology actors/actresses in anything. ms moss is one.

I liked this ep. I thought it was interesting seeing how the "normal people" live in this world. I knew there was no way June could actually escape this early into the show, kept waiting for that foot to drop. Powerful ending still.

I can't stand most celeb Scienos. But, Moss isn't as bad as people like Kirstie Alley, the Masterson family, and Jenna Elfman.

What class is June’s daughter? She wears a pink cloak in the few seconds we see her. Is the the child of a rich couple who just aren’t at the political level of the Waterford’s? (The commander ‘s wives wear blue).

Also, one thing I wondered about, in both the book and show was, What happened to celebrities? Those that didn’t leave the country in time. The Kardashians would all be brood sows in this world.

R152 There could be different scenarios for the celebrities. Reality trash type celebs with scandalous histories might have been kept from leaving the country. I could see Gilead executing many of those people or sending them off to the colonies for similar excuses like they did with that commander's wife. TV or movie actors who also had reputations of adultery, drug use, etc may have also been kept from leaving and then executed.

I think American citizen celebrities with decent reputations might have had an easier time to leave the country as the Gilead might be ok with them buying their way out of the country.

There are quite bit of celebs who don't have American citizenship and those ones might have had an easy time leaving Gilead land and going to back to their native countries. I do think in a shit scenario like in the show, a few of the non-American celebs might have left way before the wars.

I LOL’d when Aunt Lydia was showing them slides and there was one of Cherry Jones in the colonies

r143 hmm Sarah?

but she still a member of the $ church, and half her money goes to support them

that's fukd.

TAX ALL CHURCHES, AND WANNABE CHURCHES TOO

[quote]I LOL’d when Aunt Lydia was showing them slides and there was one of Cherry Jones in the colonies

I did too. It was nice seeing that smug cunt Cherry's character being punished.

[quote]Unsurprisingly, the show has already been renewed for a Season 3.

I wonder when they will end the show. I think a four season run would be ok.

I'm glad that the show has been renewed for season 3 because the writing and acting have been superb so far. But, on the other hand, I do hope that there'll be some character development to sustain the drama. Maybe, for instance, Serena Joy can begin to see the light and secretly join the resistance. Otherwise, I think it'll be just too grim and depressing to continue watching if all we see are June's repeated failed attempts to flee from Gilead.

I saw Episode Two last night. Can we discuss the lack of common sense shown by June when she was in the family's apartment? Staring out the window with armed soldiers, who are obviously trained to look at everything considering the paranoia of the society, in the street below. Seemed like one of them noticed her too. That poor guy and his wife were executed, I guess.

I was also wondering that wondering about that R159. There has to be a set time for this to end. They can't sustain June's story forever. In a real Gilead, I imagine she would be allowed to give birth, then executed or sent off to the colonies for her little escapade.

Yeah, r160, June was already beginning to annoy me because, after that family risked itself for her, she does something stupid like stare out the window when there are armed soldiers about.

It is infuriating but realistic. Even though someone knows they shouldn't, they have so much anxiety they can't help looking to see what is going on.

[quote]I was also wondering that wondering about that

Oy, sorry.

My dog barked at one point and I missed something. Who was at the apartment door forcing her to get under the bed?

[quote]I saw Episode Two last night. Can we discuss the lack of common sense shown by June when she was in the family's apartment? Staring out the window with armed soldiers, who are obviously trained to look at everything considering the paranoia of the society, in the street below. Seemed like one of them noticed her too. That poor guy and his wife were executed, I guess.

Yeah, June pissed me off by looking at the window when the Guardians could have easily spotted her from the street. I was also kind of annoyed with that couple. The guy could have told June to stay in one of the rooms with curtains closed. I do feel bad for the guy's wife and kid if they were killed or punished. June's actions likely screwed up the resistance/"Underground Railroad" movement and the people involved may no longer want anything to do with her or Nick.

[quote]What happened to celebrities? Those that didn’t leave the country in time. The Kardashians would all be brood sows in this world.

We know that "trouble-makers" like journalists, intellectuals, and gay people were getting targeted for slaughter.

I'd imagine celebrities would be considered very sinful figures and a lot of them were killed. At least the ones who weren't smart enough to pack up and flee the country before it was too late.

[quote]Maybe, for instance, Serena Joy can begin to see the light and secretly join the resistance

I don't see her changing. She is desperate for a baby. I think there was some foreshadowing to Serena's fate in episode 2 where Marisa Tomei played the commander's wife was sent to the colonies. My prediction is that will be revealed that Nick is the father of the baby and evidence of Serena recruiting him to impregnate June is also revealed. The other commanders will be pissed that a commander's wife did that for a child and they will see Serena as traitor to her husband and they decided to send her to the colonies.

Now that would really hold my interest for quite a few episodes, r167, especially if Serena were placed at the same site as Emily and Janine.

Is Emily the one who got her clit removed?

Yes Emily has no clit. Will she and Janine survive the colonies?

[SPOILER ALERT] I think (hope) that at least Emily does, R170. She's my favorite character, although I am worried that she might be spiraling downward and losing her humanity after she poisoned Marissa Tomei's character.

Emily and Janine are being exposed to radiation and other things which will cause health problems and death later on. My hope is that they are freed from the colonies and can live the rest of their days in peace and maybe Emily sees her wife and son before she dies.

I would LOVE to see that, R172 -- Emily being reunited with her wife and son.

Its too depressing.

Pass.

Depressing is a mild word. Its the biggest downer on tv.

'Oh but such good acting..."

I feel like June isn't necessarily being recaptured by the Guardians. Perhaps Mayday.

We must rescue ms moss from the evil cluthes of the $tology creep a zoids.

I do agree knowing that Elizabeth Moss is a Scientologist really does hurt the show. June would hate Moss for being part of that cult.

In her past life Aunt Lydia was [bold]TOTALLY[/bold] HR.

The path from HR to Nazi camp guard is infinitely small.

[quote]I do agree knowing that Elizabeth Moss is a Scientologist really does hurt the show. June would hate Moss for being part of that cult.

I had mixed feelings watching this show in season 1 due to Moss's Scieno connections. But, over time I really liked some of the cast members especially Ann Dowd so I became ok continuing to watch into this season. To a certain extent, I can cut Moss some slack because she was born into Scientology. I get more annoyed with celebs who joined COS as adults like Tammy Cruise, Kirstie Alley, and John Travolta.

I aint watchin no show that puts money into the pockets of the scientolo furds...

I'm with R72. I really wish I weren't because everybody's talking about it and it's so well done, but I just can't watch something that unrelentingly dark.

I think it's a great show whose timing is perfect, given the current political climate, but I find that sometimes veers a bit too much into the torture porn territory. Also, I am a bit apprehensive about the fact that the show is starting to diverge from the book, out of necessity, mind you, since they've done everything they could with Atwood's source material.

I cannot look at Moss' face

Screams sado/maso who wants to castrate all men.

[quote]Screams sado/maso who wants to castrate all men.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I aint watching no scientology show !!

What is the point of keeping fertile women alive if they're going to send them to the colonies? They won't be getting pregnant because there aren't any men and because they will be rendered infertile from polluted waste anyway. Might as well just kill them if you're not going to use their ovaries and wombs.

Something that bothers me - I can see this turning into a Walking Dead situation where it just goes on for years and years of her being captured, tortured, befriended, then tries to escape, then gets caught again. Rinse. Repeat. Many shows have a great first season, get really popular and then go meandering around for years.

[quote] In 1985, when the book was published, there were still 'money in the mattress' types around who would have had savings at home.

On 9/11 my husband ran down to the bank at the bottom of the hill we lived on in manhattan. They let him in - he's a very friendly type, e.g. he knew the names of all the workers -- and immediately locked the door and wouldn't let anyone else in. He withdrew $2k. After that we've always had at least $2k in cash in the house. He's probably got more stashed around. One of the reasons he got the money on 9/11 was to pay bribes if need be.

[quote] to be fair, nor any Huckabee Sanders types. Mooooooo

Isn't food rationed in Gilead? I thought crops had failed because of contamination and food wasn't at all in abundance. But I could have gotten it wrong,

Episode 4 was fucking bleak.

You mean, unlike the rest of the show which is feel good television.

Is Nick getting married in the next episode?

Looks like it r193.

I really liked the scene where Serena Joy went nuts trying to strangle June and June just stared back in scorn, as if to say, "You are so stupid that it hasn't dawned on you that if you would really hurt me you would kill your own baby."

I was a bit surprised June would be so cocky as to talk back to Serena Joy and contradict her at the baby shower. that just seemed so stupid now that she's in Aunt Lydia's care.

Ann Dowd is really earning her Emmy. Her character is so complex--she really does seem to care about June (at least until the baby is born), but she is thoroughly ruthless. And she also will not hesitate to correct Serena Joy if the latter is endangering the baby's health or future.

I'm hoping they let us see more of what Gilead is like this season and how it operates outside of "Cambridge" (which looks absolutely nothing like real Cambridge). I would like for the action to move to wherever the capitol of this new republic is to see more about how it operates, although I know that would be extremely expensive. To be honest my least favorite part of the show is the flashbacks to before the Sons of Jacob took over the US--I find the lives of June and her husband before the coup very boring and predictable.

Not sure I should be watching this show while crippingly depressed.

My prediction is that Nick and another Mayday member are getting married as a trick to the Gilead.

Moss is so fucking good. And they were smart to bulk up Dowd's role.

I can understand why they'd want to be part of the production, but the cameos by Tomei and Jones seemed beneath their worth. The complicated relationship between June and her mother was nicely woven. And it was a nice twist that June rebelled by being more conservative than her mother.

The rest of the casting is what keeps this from being excellent. The girl who played Rory Gilmore's student sounded like she was reading cue cards. They should have fired that girl and re-shot that scene. And Poussey is just consistently god awful. And no one else is doing work a hundred other actors couldn't pull off as well or better. I wish they'd spent a little more time and energy on nailing down the right cast.

And that shit with the shoes was so heavy handed I wanted to throw one at the tv.

So...was the guy playing Moss' husband cast because his name is 'O-T' as in 'Operating Thetan'?

[quote]My prediction is that Nick and another Mayday member are getting married as a trick to the Gilead.

According to a spoilerific article I read, Nick's bride to be is 15. I doubt she's a member of Mayday.

People::: the clams get half her paycheck!!!

rescue the maiden.....

I'm watching a 1962 password show with allen luden and the gang. so fun...bill Cullen and rita Moreno!

I never seen the hand maids tale.... looks way turgid.

Okay dumb question alert. Why did June’s relationship cause her to be a Handmaid. The guy was broken up with his ex wife for three months when they got together. Right?

I don’t like when shows start bringing on too many celebrity guest stars. It feels shark jumpy. I am not a huge Cherry Jones fan and felt like it was an odd casting choice for her mother.

R203, I believe that June was still considered an adulteress because only first marriages are recognized in Gilead.

[quote]I am not a huge Cherry Jones fan and felt like it was an odd casting choice for her mother.

Cherry only did this show for Emmy bait. She was still upset that her part as Oswald's mother on 11.22.63 was reduced and she didn't get an Emmy nomination. Jones is nothing but Emmy hungry cunt.

r204, yes, that's right; she's considered an adulteress.

She's sort of regressing in time, first blaming herself for not seeing the signs of how serious the situation was sooner, then blaming herself for not heeding her mother's advice, and now blaming ever having gotten involved with Luke for her current predicament. I wonder how far back she'll go with the misplaced blame game.

Moss has such an usual face. Most people, depending on how attractive and/or photogenic they are, either look like themselves in a good picture but not in a bad picture or vice versa. Depending on the angle and the lighting and the emotional context, Moss goes from stunning to hideous and somehow always still looks like herself.

Thanks - good observations R206. Completely agree on Moss.

Watching Episode 4 last night I realized the attraction of becoming "born again." When you've done a lot of past shit and are burdened by guilt, you can then become born again and leave (or try to leave) all that bad stuff behind. Gotta hand it to Aunt Lydia -- she really knows how to manipulate people.

[quote]I'm watching a 1962 password show with allen luden and the gang. so fun...bill Cullen and rita Moreno!

[quote]I never seen the hand maids tale.... looks way turgid.

WTF? I'm not really a grammar troll but the writing on this site has gone to shit the last few months. Are these illiterate Millennials or English second language visitors?

[quote]According to a spoilerific article I read, Nick's bride to be is 15. I doubt she's a member of Mayday.

I found that article and the child bride storyline sounds gross and the writers are just putting in to amp up the drama.

I haven't read the article, but it makes sense that in this society they would push women to try to get pregnant as soon as possible. It is hard to achieve and they are in desperate need of new children. Marrying someone off at 15 doesn't surprise me in Gilead.

Aunt Lydia is a closet dyke right?

According to that bathtub scene

Yes r212

r213, Lydia didn't respond to June's attempt to either turn her on or embarrass her. I think her orientation is still as much of a mystery as the rest of her backstory, which I'm really looking forward to finding out.

I'm not sure June was saying they only met once they separated but rather they were now separated. I believe they were having an affair and that led to the end of his first marriage.

I know the book was written in the 1980s before a lot of today’s technology existed, but how does the 2017 tv show explain the lack of things like computers, GPS, security cameras, tv, radio?

r216, what? Luke and Annie were each other's firsts and got married and were married when Luke met June. Luke and June began an affair. Luke fell in love with June and separated from his wife. Luke and Annie had been separated for three months when Annie confronted June. Luke left Annie that horrible voicemail. Luke divorced Annie. Luke married June.

r217, they could barely keeps the lights on in the last episode; presumably, Gilead did something asinine to the power grid to keep information in and other information out. GPS requires satellites. Satellites require scientists. Science is in direct conflict with biblical law. What would they play on the radio after all the musicians had been murdered or turned into broodmares? The small group of men in charge certainly have no interest in broadcasting 'the news'.

They could have sports on the radio.

They don’t mind using motor vehicles.

I see Aunt Lydia as either an HR bitch, or an earth-goddess type, maybe a midwife or doula. I noticed in the third episode in June's mother's house there was a goddess symbol that looked similar to one for the handmaiden's centre. Aunt Lydia the midwife noticed men taking over midwifery, and realized if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. It was either that or the colonies for her.

I like Elisabeth Moss, but I feel like she has Sarah Polley's acting career. Polley would have been fantastic as June.

r220, huh, you're right: Polley would have been a wonderful June. I wonder if the exile of Weinstein is making the idea of being in front of the camera again more attractive to her.

I feel like Aunt Lydia and June's mom must have known each other.

I love how Lydia bosses Serena Joy around.

I don’t think she was a doula. Season 1 showed her in a business suit. HR all the way or maybe insurance.

r22, maybe she was in a business suit because she was coming from court, having been charged with some protest related offense. HR would be a very uninspired choice. I want to see her do a stunning about-face from her original beliefs to what she became, in order to survive. Perhaps, she was brainwashed with the same 'the old you isn't you anymore and the old you is to blame, the new you is sinless' she used on June.

I haven't heard anyone mention that ripping June out of the plane was a metaphorical birth and that she's been reborn as Offred.

What about the symbolism of the skeet shoot and the red spraying everywhere when hit?

I'm actually getting a little annoyed by tbe symbolism and artsy camera shots. It's starting to take me out of the story. I'm starting to see the show as a production, not a story I'm immersed in. A little subtle symbolism is good bit overt symbolism is trying too hard. How many times do I need to see Elizabeth Moss's head brightly backlit, face turned away from the camera?

The shoe thing was as ham-fisted as Spielberg's girl in the red dress.

What shoe thing? Watched the episode twice too! 😬

[quote]They could have sports on the radio.

Sports doesn't exist anymore as they are using places Fenway Park to torture people. But, I would think some of the commanders probably miss a world without professional sports to watch on TV or attend in person.

I don't understand what people mean here by "the shoe thing" either.

[quote]maybe she was in a business suit because she was coming from court, having been charged with some protest related offense. HR would be a very uninspired choice.

There could have been other reasons for the business suit and the court thing is a good guess. One possibility is that she had some lower level job in an office and she had several supervisors and was subjected to verbal abuse which hardened her over time. If she was given the chance to be an aunt- she may been happy at the chance to have power over other people. I like the scenes of her bossing around Serena Joy. I think Lydia knows that Serena may be secretly pissed that she doesn't have the same power as a commander and Lydia is using that against her.

[quote] Sports doesn't exist anymore as they are using places Fenway Park to torture people. But, I would think some of the commanders probably miss a world without professional sports to watch on TV or attend in person.

They haven't taken over the whole world. The Republic of Gilead doesn't even cover the entirety of the United States. I am sure people are still playing sports in Canada and other countries. For all we know, the commanders may secretly watch them in private.

While Gilead doesn't cover the US, professional sports leagues would have been impacted as teams in areas of the Gilead would be pushed. The NHL would probably set up more teams in Canada and maybe other leagues would do the same. I'm guessing NFL players would end up in the CFL.

[quote]WTF? I'm not really a grammar troll but the writing on this site has gone to shit the last few months. Are these illiterate Millennials or English second language visitors?

I do feel like I'm seeing more ESL types here in recent months, but in the case of that particular poster, I think it's probably the former and not the latter. It keeps posting on this thread to tell us it hasn't ever watched the show and will not because of Scientology...yet it has also said that it used to watch it but not anymore. Whatever. Ignore is our friend.

[quote]I found that article and the child bride storyline sounds gross and the writers are just putting in to amp up the drama.

While I agree the child bride thing is not going to be fun - to be fair, everything is there to amp up the drama. And it makes sense that Gilead would get girls in the breeding mix as early as they can manage - it's not like education or a career awaits them.

There are already two major league baseball teams in Canada IRL, I would suppose others would be formed up there with the exiles from the US. And there's a US government-in-exile in Anchorage in this timeline too--there might well be professional sports teams up there too.

grammar cunt: ima English lit teacher in college, but its amusing for me to play huck finn and talk like a misfit of language.

DOES THAT GIT UR GIRDLE INTO A SNIT?

most grandiose apologies sir, may the goddess of participles and adverbs bring thee licentious glee and zest.

p.s::: was mr ludden really gay? I know ms white loved her gays....

Most of the people who would be interested in watching sports wouldn't be allowed to watch sports and playtime, even for the elite cabal of men, doesn't seem to be allowed to be fun. You can either skeet shoot, while very carefully trying to not betray any information about your internal life to the 'pals' who'd be happy to take over your job and see you strung from a lamp-post, or you can engage in an empty pantomime of flirtation with sex slaves in a speakeasy. No one is having a good time. Except maybe Aunt Lydia, because she has a really fucked up idea of fun.

What the series has been doing exceptionally well is that it's showing how *everyone* in Gilead is oppressed, albeit in different ways. I read the book ages ago but, as I recall, the book didn't really convey that because it was written just from June's perspective.

I don't need to see no series of gloom doom and oppression. Get enuf of that in real life. Plus it has the taint of Sci Tology all over it. Miss Moss how could u???

Tom Cruise is off his meds and found a WiFi connection ^

R238 Read the book it's more about Christian fundamentalism. But, I do think Christian fundies are just so loony as hardcore Scienos.

Why is our grammatically challenged ignoramus commenting on a show he claims he doesn’t watch over and over?

Starved for attention. Ignore was made for people like it.

Yeah that poster is the worst. I first go to know him in the Versace threads, incredibly fucking annoying and always has terribly written posts.

The problem R242 is that horrible writing makes it difficult for intelligent people to read. It's so bad it's painful to the eyes and makes the writer's words meaningless because people assume he/she is an idiot for not learning proper English.

I'll give a pass to ESL.

I wonder if there will ever be an episode about the US government in exile in Alaska. I could see it being a very depressed area congested with too many people who had escaped from the lower 48 states.

In what way would that differ from the Alaska of today r244?

I kinda feel after the south and Midwest, Alaska would be among the first states to fall in line with the Republic of Gilead. The Mormons might put up a fight because Mormonism would surely land people on the wall or in front of a firing squad.

In the book Jews and Blacks are offered passage out of Gilead but more often than not their ships were sunk offshore.

R246 [quote]The Mormons might put up a fight because Mormonism would surely land people on the wall or in front of a firing squad.

A state like Utah would put up a good fight fight for the Mormons in that area. Mormons living in other states would be easy targets for Republic of Gilead.

I don't know. Aside from their whole insane belief-system and the polygamy of the fundamentalists, Mormons would be fucking Ace at Gilead. I mean, they're basically already living in Sci-Fi Gilead.

gosh, all dis attention.... I'm .... blushin.... if u only knew how many likes I get yu would hide ur vag in shame...

IM FAMOUS MOMMY

R248 There would be some clashing between Mormons and some of Gilead Christian fundies due to Book of Mormon doctrine.

r250, Mormons are obviously pretty gullible people so I don't think it would be that difficult to convince them that a new golden tablet was discovered that changed the dogma to Fundamentalist Christianity.

[quote] I kinda feel after the south and Midwest, Alaska would be among the first states to fall in line with the Republic of Gilead.

That's not what happens in the book, though. Alaska is independent of Gilead. i think it's the same in the series.

Its so dreary, love to see it dubbed in by some nutty comedian, who would be good?

john mulaney maybe

Anyone watch the latest episode ?

R254 I did. The Nick taking a wife is just eww. I liked the colonies scenes more than the rest of the episode. I just saw the promo for next week's episode and looks like more backstory on Fred and Serena Joy.

After this week's episode I'm hoping Nick will somehow bring down Serena Joy and reveal that ain't Fred's baby. It will be hilarious if Nick revealed it to Aunt Lydia. I would love to see Lydia go after Serena Joy for going behind her husband's back to get someone else to knock up June.

[quote]That's not what happens in the book, though. Alaska is independent of Gilead. i think it's the same in the series.

Yeah, it was said early in season 1 that the remaining US government is based in Alaska.

SPOILER ALERT: Just finished watching it, R254. I loved that there was no June voiceovers, signifying that June was gone and only Offred was left. But then the ending left us with some optimism, not only for Offred becoming June again, but also for Emily retaining some sense of her humanity.

I would think once a man is given a wife they would be given their own house in Gilead, seemed odd to me that Nick and his bride are still just part of the Waterford's household. Of course that makes for better drama though.

I saw the preview for next week's episode, it showed a flashback to Serena Joy riling women up at a rally while Fred watches, then later Serena Joy gets shot in the lower abdomen. I wonder if Fred orchestrated the shooting, to knock his wife down a few pegs and make her compliant. There is no room in Gilead for uppity women, regardless of their status.

I still want to know Aunt Lydia's back story.

[quote]I still want to know Aunt Lydia's back story.

The increased screen time Lydia has now makes it clear this will happen eventually.

I hope the Aunt Lydia back story scenes are done this season. I see a scenario in which Serena Joy gets tired of Aunt Lydia's involvement and being around their house that she finds dirt on Lydia's past and confronts her. I'm starting to think that the show just make Lydia a closet case dyke and she knows if exposed-she would be sent to the colonies.

[quote]I would think once a man is given a wife they would be given their own house in Gilead, seemed odd to me that Nick and his bride are still just part of the Waterford's household. Of course that makes for better drama though.

The teen bride will probably love living in the same house as her hero Serena Joy. Yes, it's going to cause drama especially if teen bride also gets preggers.

I get the feeling Fred is trying to get rid of Nick. I also think the child bride is going to be trouble but I don’t know if it will be Nick and June or for Serena Joy and Fred.

I’m done. I really don’t care about Aunt Lydia or anything anymore. I’m tired of torture porn in a gray-green world. And the blood juxtaposed with the red handmaid garb....yeah, I get it. I got it. Then I got it again. And again....

I think ur on t something r263

Janine and Emily will escape duh.

We follow fan favorites Emily and Janine to the colonies but not to watch them croak. And I see ‘Ruby’ still using her hooker name lol. June gonna gut Serena Joy with Lydia’s gay assistance and go free too. Shit..

She lost a fuckton of blood. She pissed to wake up, rather than have bled out.

I really dislike junior wife's face so I hope she's gotten rid of quickly.

I warmed to Serena Joy in this episode. I think she, actually, cares for June, despite herself. And I think she and Fred would have divorced by now, if they hadn't help to destroy reality as they once knew it.

June's going to be under 24/hr surveillance now, until the baby is born. This'll give Serena a chance to snap at Lydia, since she already found her invasive. I think Serena gets punished.

[quote]I really dislike junior wife's face so I hope she's gotten rid of quickly.

She'll be there through the end of the season, at least. I think she's going to be trouble for everybody.

[quote]Janine and Emily will escape duh.

To what end, though? Both are dealing with toxic waste on a daily basis without anything approaching protective gear or effective medical care - Emily is already suffering so badly from radiation poisoning that her teeth have begun to fall out. Janine might have a better chance, but there's a reason why the Colonies are the end of the line for these women. Unless they choose to abandon all realism, they are going to die due to being there. Maybe they'll get to escape and die somewhere else shortly after. But one really doesn't live long after what they're being put through.

[quote]I think she, actually, cares for June, despite herself.

I think she cares about the BABY, and the life she'll have once it arrives. June is the means to an end. June is being a downer these days, and that's harshing Serena's baby buzz, thus the trying to be gossipy with her and prompting her to be chattier, etc. Serena never liked other women anyway - and June is her rival for Fred in her eyes, even though June wants nothing to do with him.

The Tale of Maid Xenu's Hand.

r269, no, she was relieved when *JUNE* woke up. The baby was fine. The baby was being monitored. They could have kept June in a coma til the baby was cooked and then disposed of her. Serena was overwhelmed with relief because June came to.

I agree that Serena seems to be caring for June and not just for the baby. I think Serena finally realizes that, in this hellish society she helped create, men rule and *all* women are oppressed, albeit in different ways.

Good recap

one thing is for certain, the baby jessica or who ever that Wife's neglected baby is named with die within this season or become the BIGGEST BITCH that Gilead has ever seen.

Serena Joy has really bad skin. I'm surprised she has a career.

she's Australian, she MUST have a acting career

I would love it if Bat Shit crazy Janine escaped the colonies and hunted SJ down and took out an eye.

Janine will get loose, no doubts.

r273, That recap sucked. The reviewer didn't even get basic facts correct. How do people get paid for that crap?

I think June will be removed from Serena Joy and the Commanders household. She’ll either be put back in chains are moved to the red center where Aunt Lydia can watch her.

I think Nick, June and Serena are going to unite against the Junior Wife and Fred is going to start fucking her.

I don't see Serena teaming up with Nick and June. But, I can see a storyline of Nick pretending to unite with Serena Joy, but he'll play her to find a way to keep SJ from getting her hands on the baby.

What happens to men who are considered whores like the male version of The Handmaids? Or is that not a thing? Do they become valets like Nick? What if they're old whores? I don't understand where the rest of the men are.

R283 I'm guessing some of them are forced into valet or servant roles. Some of them might have been executed along with gay men and Jewish men.

You don’t really see any old men. There are a lot of armed guards, but they all look pretty young.

We know the older woman are either Martha’s or Aunt (or go to colonies)

Speaking of Martha, do you think she plays any major role? She got viciously slapped ny SJ on a previous episode. Maybe she ultimately helps June escape.

R285 The Martha will probably play a bigger role later on as she probably read those letters and her son died in the war. She might feel that she has nothing to lose and will help June escape and she could escape as well and get to Canada.

Some of the other Guardians and Marthas are probably get treated like shit by the commanders and their families and I can see them joining up together and viciously taking revenge on the commanders and their families. I think Nick probably has other motives for being in Mayday, maybe the Gilead executed his friends or family.

r286, probably his mother.

R285, or people even with glasses. did every citizen of gilead get lasek?

Are there nursing homes in Gilead?

maybe not, maybe they just shove them all in the river

Started watching the first episode last night as it premiered in the UK on C4 Sunday night. Wasn’t impressed with the opening. A show as grim as this doesn’t need to pull its punches and that Kate Bush song...that’s used on so many commercials over here including one’s for cancer and child abuse charities - I’m surprised she cleared the license for this! All in all, a real turn off. Went to bed after 10 min.

Her husband’s hotter this season though,he’s been to the gym. Don’t know how they’ll continue to flash back as her daughter just gets older in real life.

one season was enuf to have to look at the scient olo gy lady....ugh.

Do people generally think Season 2 is worth watching? I don’t want to read the entire thread for fear of spoilers. Thanks.

The new episode is the best one so far.

Yes r293, if you liked the first season you should definitely watch the second.

For some reason, S2 is not grabbing me as much as S1.

I think S2 is slower moving, less pivotal moments or action, more grim. But it’s worth watching. I find with many series, I love season one. Then two loses me. There’s been a few exceptions. Anyway.. like everyone else I hope to see Aunt Lydia’s backstory soon.

I like the costumes

Loving Nick in this espisode. He looks good.

That ending was something and this episode was the best one this season

Yvonne Strahovski really delivered in this episode. And the last minute! Loved it.

she's got style

It doesn’t make any sense at all to send women who can have babies to the colonies. They’ve already shown pregnant women bound to a bed a few times, so why not just chain Janine and Emily to beds, have men fuck them and get them pregnant? It’s a waste of a perfectly good womb to send fecund women to the colonies. Bad plot device.

[quote] one thing is for certain, the baby jessica or who ever that Wife's neglected baby is named with die within this season or become the BIGGEST BITCH that Gilead has ever seen.

English translation?

I think Baby Angela could possibly be turned over to Serena Joy at some point. She seems to dote on it and the "mother" seems to dislike babies in general. She'll get caught neglecting it and will be sent to the colonies. I think her husband was executed wasn't he?

When June asked Serena to see Hannah, and Serena reacted so oddly - cold and cruel but crying at the same time - I thought Hannah must be dead, probably killed at Serena's orders when June ran away.

The photo makes me question that, but then again, it could have been taken earlier.

^^^^I don't remember that. I don't even remember who Hannah was.

[quote]one thing is for certain, the baby jessica or who ever that Wife's neglected baby is named with die within this season or become the BIGGEST BITCH that Gilead has ever seen. Translations?

one thing is for certain, the baby jessica or whoever that wife's neglected baby is named, will die within this season or become the BIGGEST BITCH taht gilead has ever seen..

Ah, I remember. Hannah is June's daughter. No way would they kill a child. They are too valued in that society.

[quote]waste of a perfectly good womb

Now you're talking to the DL demographic.

I hope they do a scene or entire episode back at that sleazy speakeasy/hotel/brothel this season... by far my favorite episode of last season and it would be fun to see what the Jezebels are up to these days, even without Moira. I'd actually love a whole spin-off series about what goes on there day-to-day... could be cool.

[quote]She'll get caught neglecting it and will be sent to the colonies. I think her husband was executed wasn't he?

No, the husband wasn't executed. Last season, his punishment was that he had to have an arm amputated.

[quote]Yvonne Strahovski really delivered in this episode. And the last minute! Loved it.

She deserve an Emmy nomination. Hulu needs to push a FYC campaign for her.

I hope Nick's child bride gets killed off. She was annoying as fuck in the new episode.

I think I figured out why I preferred S1. This season feels more soap opera-ish at times. The first season was less sentimental since Atwood's original material isn't such.

I find the character compelling r313 personally. I don't like her of course, but you aren't supposed to.

I didn't see that ending coming, so kudos to the show, caught me completely off guard.

Also for someone who supposedly *really* didn't want have sex with his bride, Nick apparently had no problem instantly getting hard.

[quote]Also for someone who supposedly *really* didn't want have sex with his bride, Nick apparently had no problem instantly getting hard.

He was probably imagining that the child bride was June.

[quote]I thought Hannah must be dead, probably killed at Serena's orders when June ran away.

I don't think Serena is that powerful in Gilead and as another post mentioned they wouldn't kill a child. I wouldn't be surprised if Serena later goes nuts and tries to harm Hannah and then the Eyes or commanders find out. Serena's craving for more power will be her undoing.

r315, he could have done anything and, as a virgin, Junior Wife wouldn't have known the difference.

I want to know how Serena became Nazi Barbie. Oh shit I bet Fred hired the gunman to radicalize SJ and also so she would be to blame for their (his) infertility.

Did I see right? Was Nick fucking the child bride through a hole in a sheet? That's some pretty puritanical shit there.

Those college kids who were screaming at SJ when she was trying to do her speech did their movement no favors. I thought they were all assholes. At least let the woman speak. Funny thing about that freedom of speech thing. You don't have to agree but you should allow them to speak and then call them out on it.

[quote], Nick apparently had no problem instantly getting hard.

they aren't allowed to jerk off in gilead. instant-hardon

[quote]At least let the woman speak.

really?

I didn't see Aunt Lydia at the ceremony at the end, but doesn't she always accompany her "girls" at all official events?

r322, as far as I can recall, yes. But it seemed that the power broker dudes inside may have parked their Handmaids outside the door like motorcycles at a high desert biker bar.

The motorcycle analogy is brilliant, R323.

If you kick one over do they all fall?

LOL, R323.

I flagged R323 for WW. It’s rare anyone on DL makes me laugh out loud these days.

When will June realise she needs to be a little more subtle when trying to manipulate Serena Joy?

The Handmaids brunch scene was hilarious ‘what do you two talk about in your walks?’ Oops...

[quote]The Handmaids brunch scene was hilarious ‘what do you two talk about in your walks?’ Oops...

I cracked up at the part. I wish Rita would have face palmed SJ.

Poor Rita looks and acts shellshocked. SJ is truly a monster.

I have feeling Rita is gonna go psycho on SJ

I do have a feeling they are going to have SJ regret Gilead. But I'm not sure she's worthy of redemption. Hopefully she gets a knife in her heart.

SJ should be sent to the colonies and grovel like Marisa Tomei's character.

R329 Rita should drug SJ's food and then have Mayday pick her up and take her hostage.

[quote]I do have a feeling they are going to have SJ regret Gilead.

nope, she likes the perks too much, the look on her face is always, "I got mine, I know it's wrong, but fuck all of you"

the posters who up thread whine about "they should have let SJ speak" miss the irony completely that these hacks want free speech, but to do away with democracy and free speech after they get their way, just like the trumptards.

Too depressing. Gave up on it. Moss is Queen of Downers. couple of cute guys on it yes.

with todays headlines of grief/trumpyness,etc I don't need this show to accentuate my depression.

[quote] It doesn’t make any sense at all to send women who can have babies to the colonies. They’ve already shown pregnant women bound to a bed a few times, so why not just chain Janine and Emily to beds, have men fuck them and get them pregnant? It’s a waste of a perfectly good womb to send fecund women to the colonies.

Next time we'll let you run the next misogynistic totalitarian theocracy.

r335, you sound very damaged

R302, although the handmaidens are just seen as wombs with legs, sending some to the colonies is a good way to keep the others in line. Also now that Gilead has been in existence for a few years, they can probably spare a few wombs (look at the size of the Rachel and Leah Centre).

look at it

That ending was FREAKING perfect and so unexpected. Best episode of the season so far.

I can't wait to see the FUNERAL

Interesting side by side comparison video of the show and the 1990 movie

the music is great

I thought the leaves looked so realistic.

2 hell with anything or one remotely connected to s tology….

txt spk iz 4 stooopidz

I agree, immediately invalidates the comment

I like handmaids

I just saw the new episode. It was ok, but I didn't like the sudden changes with one character. It's probably a trick.

This episode was definitely not as satisfying. Too many things didn't add up:

All of a sudden Moira wants to find the fiancee she never mentioned once in two seasons?

It never occurred to any of the handmaids to share their real names with each other? Ever?

Nick and June feel free to make out passionately in the hospital hallway just outside Commander Waterford's room with soldiers everywhere?

Would Gilead really bring handmaids who'd been exposed to high levels of radioactivity back to Boston?

And am I the only one confused by the shooting of the Martha? Based on the way June explained it to Nick, I wondered if it was their Martha who'd been killed.

Serena's treatment of June is becoming too erratic. Serena wrote books - does she really need her handmaid's editing skills? Is there some other reason for her to involve June?

On the other hand, I did like how the focus on the pen mirrored the shot of the grenade in the last episode. And I still love the show. But this episode, not so much.

[quote]Would Gilead really bring handmaids who'd been exposed to high levels of radioactivity back to Boston?

I thought the same thing when Janine and Emily appeared at the store. I can sort of see Janine being brought back as she hasn't been at the Colonies. But, Emily has been there longer and was showing signs of decreasing health in a recent episode.

^ I meant to type that Janine hasn't been at the colonies that long

I thought this episode was probably the best directed and shot of any so far.

It was stunningly beautiful.

[quote]And am I the only one confused by the shooting of the Martha? Based on the way June explained it to Nick, I wondered if it was their Martha who'd been killed.

I was confused for a second and also thought it was their Martha Rita who was killed. Then June said it was the Websters' Martha.

I do think Rita is plotting something and may been involved with Ofglen2 aka Lillie Fuller's plot.

I still want to know why no one in gilead but fred waterston wears glasses

Fred is probably like those Erudites in the Divergent books/movies who wear glasses just to make themselves look smarter.

[quote] And am I the only one confused by the shooting of the Martha? Based on the way June explained it to Nick, I wondered if it was their Martha who'd been killed.

It wasn't.

[quote] Serena's treatment of June is becoming too erratic. Serena wrote books - does she really need her handmaid's editing skills? Is there some other reason for her to involve June?

All writers need editors, especially non-fiction writers.

I've been watching it on Hulu. I cannot see it happening in the U.S.

That said, I think Aunt Lydia is gonna get her clock cleaned by June/Offred.

I want the handmaids to stone Aunt Lydia to death.

[quote] I've been watching it on Hulu.

How unexpected!

I just saw the promo for the next episode and I think someone's prediction about baby Angela might come true.

PURGE THE SHOW OF ITS TOLOGISTS

Didn’t Moira mention getting engaged in a season one flashback? I think she bought a bottle of champagne to celebrate? I didn’t mind the flashback to Odette now, she never had chance to talk about giving away a child either. it was all about June’s backstory and how Gilead was created. Now they can look into the other characters a little more. The girlfriend was gorgeous.

I have a suspicion Serena was in on the bombing. Not because she's completely anti-Gilead but rather because she resents her lack of power in it. I also think she wanted Fred dead.

She wants those fucking banana pancakes at that brunch place

And a trip to Antigua r366 - sea glass

indeed

The brunch place was probably burned to the ground.

to those who ask about the scope of the gilead republic in prior shows, offred mentioned sectarian war in chicago reducing it to rubble, and saint patrick's cathedral being deconstructed and sent to the bottom of the hudson river. another time handmaids while shopping remark about the available oranges, "the war in florida must be going well" - which happens to be a quote from the book. the fallout and poisons that unwomen are forced to clean up appear to be in the plains states, the implication was that nuclear silos were detonated as to take them out of the hands of the new militants. so. . .

gilead might extend from coast to coast. in the appendix to the book has future academicians remark that GIlead changed the political map of north america forever.

What was the deal with all the bodies hanging from houses? Collaborators or just killing them as a warning? One of them looked like a wife in blue. Were the guys other commanders or drivers like Nick?

All of the above, it seemed. Clothing options being so limited as they are

Moira was so *moist* in this episode! I really would have preferred to have found out who all those people hanging were and why than spend time with that terrible sweaty actress' flashbacks.

Are they getting rid of Joe Fiennes because of the #metoo rumors about him?

Elisaclam Moss had some great tiny moments in the interrogation.

I agree that the making out in the hallway was absurd and the name game hokey.

Serena Joy's C-storyline was really the only thing to move the plot ahead at all since all that time was wasted watching sweaty cry and grin unbelievably. She seriously can't even manage to smile with any honesty. I'm surprised SJ was willing to make such bold moves and wish we'd gotten to see her coming just a little more undone before daring to say, "fuck it!" I did appreciate that June & SJ are going to try to write themselves out of this story and into a better one.

And for fuck's sake when do we get Aunt Lydia's backstory?

The Commander who was promoted after Cmdr. Price's death was going on a purge after the bombing. That's why the people were hanging. He was pretty much killing anyone who looked at him with side eye. He was consolidating his power and Serena knew her family was next. Most of those people hanging were probably "innocent".

In the book's afterword they mention that Gilead went through 3 (I think) purges of which this is the first. The Commander was a victim of the first purge.

indeed, that was the supposition of the academians in the book's afterword

Of course, in the book it is not even certain that this Commander is actually Offred's commander. It could be another Commander "Fred".

I was surprised that more Handmaids died in n the kids explosion than commanders. It looked like Ofglen ran to the middle of the place and the Handmaids seemed to be running away.

Have no idea how the word “kids “ got in my post.

Agree r378. Ofglen ran right in the middle of the room. Unless the Handmaids were killed after the bombing as being accomplices

Sorry but I read the book decades ago and I don't recall why people in Gilead don't use in vitro fertilization or artificial insemination instead of relying on their bizarre handmaid impregnation ceremony. They seem to be okay with some technologies, like sonograms and computers, but not others?

You are asking why the men that made the rules gave themselves the right to fuck more women r381?

You can justify it by "it is way God intended, men lay with women, not some scientist test tube baby", but really...of course they would.

But, r382, the men have to fuck their handmaidens in their wives' presence, which can't be all that enjoyable except for a small fraction of them.

Since when was in vitro fertilization part of GOD'S PLAN R381.

I suspect r381 is a gender traitor.

I really do.

Yes, unrepentant gender traitor here.

If you believe life begins at conception, in vitro fertilization involves wasted embryos. Adamant pro-life factions are against it.

the book sounds very technology-averse. I don't recall anything at all like sonograms and other fancy methods of medicine. I believe birth occurred via an auntie midwife old-style

the book also mentioned that live births would occur, even in "good " families, and the child was not viable, was a "shredder"

Which begs the question r388, just exactly what did those denizens of Gilead do with the "shredders"?

I had to rewatch this episode and I'm guessing the woman hanging in a blue dress was Baby Angela's "mother"? They mentioned a Commander who had his whole household killed.

[quote]They mentioned a Commander who had his whole household killed

I think that was the Commander whose handmaid (Ofglen) was responsible for the bombing. Baby Angela's 'mother' is Ofwarren's wife

I meant Commander Warren's wife...Ofwarren=Janine

I can't keep track of all the commanders. Serena Joy was sneaky, sneaky and I think quite content to be back behind a desk and in charge of the house again.

The wives wear blue? It’s green on my tv. I thought it signified money. But I guess I just need to redo my settings.

R394, I don't think it's your TV. In the episode that showed the multiple-marriage ceremony, I noticed that some of the women in the audience had dresses that were more blue than green, and you could clearly see the difference because they were standing next to each other. So, yeah, I was wondering about the difference between blue and green. Serena definitely wears green, so maybe you switch to blue after having a child? Or maybe green denotes a higher-status wife? I don't know the answer, and I don't remember a difference in the book, although I read the book ages ago.

I didn't see green but different shades of blue. Some wives wear a more madonna blue, some wear a darker shade. Are we all color blind?

The wives wear blue. The Marthas wear green. I think you might need to adjust the settings on your televisions.

[quote]Are we all color blind?

I am a bit. Wives wear blue in the book. on the show it looks peacock or something. marthas wear almost khaki green. aunties brown

I've noticed Serena Joy's clothes looked more green until recently and now look blue, too.

Serena has always been in blue. No green at all. The Marthas wear khaki grey. No green. Seriously, your tv or monitors or whatever you're watching on has not been calibrated correctly. Go into the settings pane and fix it.

I think it's definitely a greenish blue...maybe because of the lighting/filters they use

I see this as green

And this

And..

There were handmaids inside the building on the upper tier, R378. You could see their red cloaks crash against the glass upon the explosion. But I bet some handmaids were also executed after the fact for being alleged accomplices as said above.

R402 that is Madonna blue. Are you color-blind for real?

Here are some color blindness tests you can take:

I see it as green too!

I should have worn green... like the last time.

I see Serena's dress as greenish blue at r401, r402, and r403, and as just green as r404.

I wish I had a photo of the Commander's wives during the multiple-marriage ceremony, because some of those women were in dresses that were much more blue than green and the color was different from the green of Serena's dress.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

one has kids, they others don't

I was thinking that might be the reason, r413, but I couldn't recall if she had the same color as Serena before Janine gave birth.

Totally green

In the book it said the Wives wore blue to signify Mary (Madonna) and the Marthas wore a dull green. The Hulu show has definitely put the Wives in a more Greenish Blue than a true Madonna blue (especially in season 1 it looked almost entirely green). But this season it’s more blue.

I wonder why

R417 Maybe, Margaret Atwood bitched about the colors. The producers and writers consult with her on the show.

she's a famous shrew

Ugh, gross they want us to feel sorry for Serena Joy's injured ass.

R412 I noticed that too. My guess is that the wives are afforded a measure of choice in what they wear: they can personalize their clothing to a degree (different fabrics or neckline) as long as it remains blue/green and modest.

We’re worrying about the future of professional sports in Gilead?!?!

On Datalounge?

We should be discussing how Gilead would affect Broadway!

Two by Two and Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat would be the only shows open.

Well - also Cats.

But that’s it.

Jesus christ superstar would work too

the real question is, would Tim Gun have work in the Gilead?

A lot of people working on Broadway would be hung for being gender traitors.

I have both last and this weeks episodes to watch tonight, can’t wait.

I watched the new episode and it's my least favorite so far of this season.

"Starlight Express" might also survive a Gilead purge.

r425, hanged, dear, hanged.

the laundry is hung by the marthas. the traitors are hanged by the guardians

Speaking of Marthas, I felt sorry for the Martha that was introduced in this episode. She had a good career and then was forced to be a house servant. I hope we get more backstory on Rita and what she did before the Gilead took over.

Who was the woman shot in the street as Offred watched from the window?

R431 She was a Martha for a neighboring household.

From the sound of it, is season 2 going downhill?

I have so many questions: where did the Martha of Offred's household end up? I didn't see her in the kitchen scene.

What about Nick's young wife?

Did Serena Joy give Offred the job of looking through resumes?

What? Have you read this thread? It has been wonderful, and of course incredibly depressing.

Still the best drama on TV right now, by far.

I didn't love last week's episode and this week's went even further off the rails for me:

The behavior of both Serena and Aunt Lydia felt way off and out-of-character. Serena is suddenly far too willing to break her own rules and collaborate with a woman she's mostly hated. Aunt Lydia is now nurturing and willing to entertain out-of-the-box behavior from Offred, basically giving in to Offred's demands. In one episode these women have gone from being June's oppressors to being her colleagues, and it's not believable.

June meanwhile is amused and impressed by Serena's transformation, somehow able to be friends and overlook that Serena is enslaving her and holding her daughter Hannah hostage.

June has no problem screaming at the soldier who tries to intervene during Janine's meltdown - and she isn't shot on the spot. Emily rants about bombs and rebellion at the market without concern.

The lighting budget for this show must be very low. Do the Waterfords ever turn on an overhead light? Also, did Gilead outlaw digital music players? Turntables are back in fashion, and pristine copies of old LPs are readily available.

And the biggest What-the-Hell of all - Janine is welcomed back to spend time with the baby she kidnapped and nearly killed. Serena pushes for this! Aunt Lydia allows it! The Palmers and Lydia all go to sleep with Crazy-Eye Killa Janine in the room!

Get it together, "Handmaid's Tale"!!!

r433, it's getting a bit more soap opera like, less internal monologue

[quote]The lighting budget for this show must be very low. Do the Waterfords ever turn on an overhead light?

that's called "dramatic lighting" it contrasts greatly with the OVERlit interiors of government and medical buildings

A lot of movies and tv shows are dimly lit. Drives me crazy.

Dimly lit = covering up for weak script by trying to appear sinisterly dramatic

I wanna know who choreographs the handmaids. No matter the situation, them gravid bitches know the moves.

June Taylor comes to mind, but she's dead.

[quote]June has no problem screaming at the soldier who tries to intervene during Janine's meltdown - and she isn't shot on the spot.

She wasn't shot because she is pregnant.

I laughed when Serena got whipped.

Is this from the newest episode released today R443? I don't remember Serena getting whipped last week.

R444 Yes, it's the new episode.

Wonder what’s going to happen in Canada next week. Hope the Commander has a bad time.

I really don't want to sympathize with Serena but the producers seem hell bent on making her transform into a sympathetic character. Maybe she will regret Gilead but she still needs to be raped and strung up in a square when this series finally concludes.

[quote]I really don't want to sympathize with Serena but the producers seem hell bent on making her transform into a sympathetic character

I feel the same way. But, I think Serena will be punished if it becomes revealed that Nick impregnated June.

I think the very slim role of neonatal doctor was done perfectly. And she was right, no pathogen or outside force was killing the baby, it’s the neglect of a shitty mother than was.

The scofflaw nature that affects the characters now is seriously in opposition to the world that Atwood created where people are forced to hang themselves to cover up nasty details and no one confesses errant thoughts to others for fun like, “I detest knitting”.

From the previews,it looks like Nick goes to to someone in power and tells on Commander Waterford beating Serena Joy.

[quote]I think the very slim role of neonatal doctor was done perfectly. And she was right, no pathogen or outside force was killing the baby, it’s the neglect of a shitty mother than was.

I wasn't a fan of this episode. But, I liked the parts with the doctor. It showed one of the other ways Republic of Gilead is making people suffer by forcing a successful female doctor to become a Martha.

R451 I kind of think the Gilead would be ok with men beating their wives under the excuse of discipline.

[quote]It showed one of the other ways Republic of Gilead is making people suffer by forcing a successful female doctor to become a Martha.

We had been shown this aspect of Gilead before, last season - when we were told that many of those at Jezebel's were formerly successful and powerful women like lawyers, CEOs, etc. They were singled out to work there, put in their place at last. Ugh.

[quote]From the sound of it, is season 2 going downhill?

For me, yeah. I'm still watching and there is still good stuff in the show, but the writing has taken that soapy, WTF turn that so often happens when a TV series based on a novel goes off-book.

[quote]Wonder what’s going to happen in Canada next week. Hope the Commander has a bad time.

Of course, he's going to have a bad time. Some of the American refugees will protest and heckle him.

I'm also betting Serena Joy will fuck the guy that she's talking to in the promo.

She’s gonna fuck that black Martha postnatal doc

^^ Could be! Serena's screaming fit at the hospital will be channeled into hot passion.

That will make them the third lesbian bi-racial couple on the show.

HA!!!

I think the beating is going to turn Serena against her husband and Gilead eventually. She was a successful, independent businesswoman before and being beaten for being disobedient is going to eat at her. Her husband has changed for the worse and I think her eyes are opening to the horror he helped create.

I wish the writers would have left Serena Joy as a villain. With Aunt Lydia, she had her nice moments in season 1. But, I couldn't stand how nice they made her in the latest episode. I also don't like that crazy Janine seems to have no hatred towards Lydia who ordered that her eye cut out. There has to be other handmaids who would love to kill Lydia if given the chance.

We have seen Emily kill that Commander's wife at the colonies. I wouldn't be surprised if she kills a Commander's wife back in Gilead. I could see some storyline where June tries to protect SJ from Emily.

[quote]I have so many questions: where did the Martha of Offred's household end up? I didn't see her in the kitchen scene.

She was in a couple of short scenes. There was a scene where she told June that she lent something to Nick's child bride.

The writing for Season 2 occasionally feels....really fucking soapy, though I'm still enjoying overall. Certain scenes have felt like the classic "we have to argue here! why are we arguing?? I don't know! But the showrunner needs more conflict!! argue argue argue!" scenario.

"I LOST MY EYE!"

"I LOST MY CUNT!"

[quote]Her husband has changed for the worse

he shot a man's wife in front of him for revenge, he's hardly worse now

Some people are being too quick to turn Serena into a big victim. She was a big part in pushing for Gilead, don't pretend like she was some bystander going along with her husband. The exact details might not be how she planned, but this was her dream as well. And lets remember it was Serena who made clear Fred needed to respond to her attacker with murder.

exactly, she's cunt through and through

The promo for the next episode from an Israeli network is slightly different from the Hulu one and is a bit more intense. You have to be logged into Facebook to see it.

^ That's not going to work sorry. Search Hot Vod Israel on Facebook and the promo is on the page.

Oooh, war between Canada and the Gilead regime looks eminent

R436, I really enjoyed reading your comments. Are you a writer?

I finally caught up (on the last two eps) and agree the last episode felt like quite a diversion of personalities - like they had different writers than all previous eps. Serena Joy and June’s “friendship” is satisfying though, like when characters who have sexual tension finally get together. I can’t help but like Serena Joy just a bit. I think she’s always instinctually wanted to be close to June but couldn’t.

Zero interest in Moira and Nick/child bride.

Agree; loved the scenes with the doctor - very powerful.

[quote]Oooh, war between Canada and the Gilead regime looks eminent.

Yup. This Mashable article has a good theory on that. I think there will some surprise ally country that will help kick it off.

Mashable article

[quote]I wish the writers would have left Serena Joy as a villain.

To me, any redemption arc that they try to push through is pointless in the end, because she owns this shit. She is one of the architects of Gilead - her responsibility for the untold human misery it has caused can't be overstated. No matter what she does or how she changes, she CANNOT come back from that. The damage is done.

The Canada theory is fairly plausible but it probably means that Gilead is extremely weak and probably doesn't possess nukes or that somehow Canada got very strong. I hope June murders Nick's child bride, she's trouble.

She was an architect for Gilead but she did not think she would be reduced to knitting placidly alone in a house. In Season 1 she was going to present a speech to the newly formed government, possibly about how their society should be structured and was told since she was a woman that she could not. I don't think she realized how extreme the misogyny was going to be.

She just thought it wouldn't apply to HER, R475. She didn't care what happened to other women.

I'm not arguing about that R476. I still don't think realized how extreme it would become once the men took over and kicked her out. I'd actually like to know how much of Gilead was her idea. At one point, when they were showing her and Fred at the beginning of their relationship, they seemed fairly normal and loving. The Sons of Jacob definitely changed him and I think Serena Joy is really seeing that now and Fred looks miserable most of the time.

And that, r476, is the typical Republican callousness -- they don't care unless something affects them directly. I loathe the Serena Joys of the world, and yet I find her to be the most interesting (and tragic) character of The Handmaid's Tale.

R476, this wasn’t a religious regime but an elitist. She considered herself better than others, fit to rule over others, like her husband.

Serena Joy needs to be shipped off the colonies forced to dig up the radiation crap.

What is June’s strategy when she’s flirting with the commander? I know it’s about “keep your enemies closer” but I’m curious where she’s going with it

she's in shock, maybe stockholm syndrome

I believe June thinks she can manipulate the Commander. Mostly to see her daughter.

But this is odd timing, no?

[quote]I loathe the Serena Joys of the world, and yet I find her to be the most interesting (and tragic) character of The Handmaid's Tale.

I'm also starting to view her as a tragic character. I hated her the most in season 1 and still do. But, now I see that she never intended for Gilead to be that extreme. I still want her to pay for the awful shit she has inflicted on other people. I really hope there is no storyline of her fleeing to Canada or another country.

Offred is the only compelling character

This season is really veering towards the (very dark) soap opera territory.

I agree

Canada episode tonight . My dream would be for the Commander tied to a tree in the Canadian wilderness doused in maple syrup and left animals to attack him.

Or tied to a tree and fucking Celine dion singing all of her favorite hits to him at top screech nonstop

I enjoyed the new episode a bit more than the previous ones. The Canada scenes were great, however the writers used some of those scenes as additional attempts for us to feel sorry for Serena Joy. I think we will see the US government guy again. I wouldn't be surprised if he had people spying on the Waterfords and the security detail.

The Serena Joy pity party/redemption arc rolls on, and I'm calling it now: she is going to have an affair with US Government Guy and end up getting pregnant herself. The comment from him about the scientific proof that the fertility problem mostly lies with the men and 'that's not your baby' feel like serious foreshadowing to me...

I loved the scene of SJ being stared at by the little girl and the mother being a bitch to her.

I loved the face slaps

This was a *much* better episode than the last two.

Only quibbles: Nick finding Luke in some random Toronto bar. How'd that happen?

And Joseph Fiennes doing too much of that "menacing" Game of Thrones Littlefinger whisper talk.

But a lot of good stuff too:

Serena being an object of scorn and ridicule (yes, R493, that was perfect!) and also, her meet-up with the American.

June's requests of Rita and Aunt Lydia to be godmothers. Aunt Lydia's behavior felt much more in character this week and the little cracks she showed in revealing her previous life ("He died at four days but it wasn't my fault") make me think her backstory episode is going to be intense and bananas. Hope it's coming soon.

The Canadian protests and the final morning slap-down of the Waterfords by Canada's leaders.

The show continues to eerily parallel our own Trump nightmare with the Commander's sneering insult that the Canadian leader was weak.

Elisabeth Moss continues to pull so much emotion into every scene. I wasn't sure about all of the narration at the beginning, but it worked as a counterpoint to finding her resolve again at the end.

(Thanks R470. Not professionally but do some in my day job.)

you ought to be in showbiz!

Love the latest episode. The US Government guy was good-looking. Hope he comes back

Spoiler:

Hope Janene is ok. That hard smack in the mouth looked brutal. Hope the don’t cut her tongue out.

The Canada scenes were eerie considering the timing, and not knowing when they filmed them what was going to happen at the G7. My only question is, if America does exist in Hawaii and Alaska, are all the refugees staying in Canada because they are working to get others out? Any of them getting to return to the new mainland? Didn't even realize that "America" still existed till this episode.

I'm starting to enjoy this season more and more, not as some vision of a dystopian future but as "Gilead Place".

[quote]The Canada scenes were eerie considering the timing, and not knowing when they filmed them what was going to happen at the G7. My only question is, if America does exist in Hawaii and Alaska, are all the refugees staying in Canada because they are working to get others out? Any of them getting to return to the new mainland? Didn't even realize that "America" still existed till this episode.

I don't think all of the American refugees are in Canada. There were probably some people who were able to get to Hawaii or Alaska. It's possible that the refugees in Canada are probably staying put for different reasons. Some of the refugees may have already started careers in Canada and they might not have career opportunities in Hawaii or Alaska. I also think that some refugees are probably trying to get Canadian citizenship because they have given up on the US government getting back the states taken over by Gilead.

On a related note, I wonder what would happen to US territories like Guam or Puerto Rico in this kind of universe.

I loved the gay Canadian's smackdown to Waterford.

I thought the Canada episode provided a wonderful syllogism to the whorehouse ep last season... a big breath of fresh air, especially coming after that epic downer of an episode last week. My fav ep of the season so far. Also, I think DLers will get their wish for a Aunt Lydia flashback... I was on the edge of my seat hoping they'd pop in a flash or two when she was revealed her sister's son dying at 4 days old to June/Offred. Fingers crossed. Great season (as good as S1 to me).

I think Aunt Lydia was a neonatal nurse (probably nursing director). She probably seen a lot babies.

June is playing Aunt Lydia and planting seeds hinting at Waterford being abusive.

they need to leave

R179 made me laugh so hard.

I like this season, but there are definitely flaws. They don't have enough material for 13 (?) episodes, so the episodes are dragging way too much. Lots of unnecessary draaaaaawing out of scenes, slow motion shots, music interludes, etc. The first episode hanging scene was practically torture porn it lasted so long. Also, some of the setups are unrealistic and it takes you right out of the story. Most glaring example--Nick's very young wife confiding in June. That girl has clearly been trained/brainwashed into being the perfect bride, no way in hell she's going to talk to a lowly handmaiden about her (lack of a) sex life or hint that she suspects her husband is a gender traitor. (Now if it turns out she's an eye or Mayday, that would make more sense, but it also would be a ridiculous stretch.)

Moss, Bedel and Dowd are all killing it again though. So is Strahovski. There needs to be more group cast awards. And we need Aunt Lydia's backstory (HR or otherwise).

R503, I thought that or either some kind of anti-abortion advocate. Probably ran a one of those "crisis pregnancy" centers that lies to women.

^ either that or

Strahovski was amazing in the most recent episode. Her subtle expressions revealed so much of what she was thinking. I am now finding Serena Joy to be the most interesting character, although I think she is beyond redemption.

Serena Joy is interesting because she's almost a literal representation of so many conservative female outrage pundits. And of course they are all media darlings. If the US really became Gilead, the face of the movement would be a skinny blond white woman.

Pretty much

That's a fascinating comparison, R510. I actually don't think Coulter believes half the shit she spews. I think she says things just to be provocative and to sell books. It would be really interesting if that was how Serena Joy first became prominent -- by saying wild, provocative stuff that she really didn't believe -- only to watch in horror as the Gilead men took that shit seriously. Now *that* would have been a really fascinating character arc.

Well, Serena Joy clearly made a name for herself exploiting a real emergency--the fertility crisis. So she wasn't just being provocative for kicks. But what's left ambiguous is to what extent she really believes the religious BS that underlies the Gilead solution to the crisis. She may have been a provocateur who used the cover of evangelicalism to spew crap and then hit the jackpot when this crisis came along. She may have been a person of genuine faith who became radicalized in response to the crisis. She may have been an all out evangelical nutjob who fantasized about precisely this dystopian world until, you know, it came true. And so on.

What's interesting is any one of those are all possibilities based on real-life pundits. We saw all these variations in the aftermath of 9/11.

I think it's cute that we think of Coulter as blonde.

[quote] She may have been a person of genuine faith who became radicalized in response to the crisis. She may have been an all out evangelical nutjob who fantasized about precisely this dystopian world until, you know, it came true. And so on.

atwood states that none of the leaders of gilead are true believers, she just constructed a totalitarian society that could conceivably come about in the US - one based on christian fundamentalism

my biggest problem with this series is that Fred waterford comes across as FAR too earnest and not nearly venal enough

^ Yes, but the series is going well beyond Atwood's source material. We didn't have much of a backstory for any of these women in the book and it's clear the series is going in it's own direction by constructing them.

By far the biggest apostasy from the book is the lack of overt white supremacist structure in the show's Gilead.

^ its own direction

[quote]By far the biggest apostasy from the book is the lack of overt white supremacist structure in the show's Gilead.

indeed

[quote] Now *that* would have been a really fascinating character arc.

Hm..Some of us would call that 'cliché' rather than 'fascinating', but perhaps they are synonyms to you.

I think Lydia was probably an infamous abortion clinic bomber or shot a planned parenthood doctor or something like that. And/or I think she was totally responsible for her nephew dying. She's too vicious to be a nonbeliever.

Lydia was the wife of a former Vice President.

A couple of big missed opportunities from my vantage point:

This unrealistic coddling of June because of her pregnancy. (Yes, I know coddling is a really weird word to use in this context.) There are so many ways June could be punished for her intransigence while still protecting the baby. One horrific example from history is how enslaved women were beaten when they were pregnant (to protect the future very valuable "property")--a hole was dug in the ground for her belly and she was whipped on the back while she lay face down. It would have been an awful but apt link between 2 societies that value pregnancy but treat the women themselves as disposable.

Another was really drawing Serena Joy's patriarchal bargain. She was fine with oppressing women so long as she got her status out of the deal. Fred's beating her finally brought to head all the signs that her status has little real value. The show has been hinting at it and Yvonne Strahovski is doing such a great job of giving us cues into Serena's revelations, but that kind of point really needs to be hammered home. I was hoping for a scene where Serena subtly hints to Fred that the beating was a bridge too far and he overtly confronts her along the lines of: "Really? When I talk about women's submission, did you think somehow you were exempt? When you wrote 'A Woman's Place' were you not writing about your own?" That scene could have been so powerful.

R521, so Aunt Lydia used to be Mother Lydia?

Whatever their motivations and regrets, I hope Aunt Lydia and Serena Joy are lynched when the revolution comes.

No, they should spend some time in the colonies first.

I hope Aunt Lydia gets it soon and by Emily's hand or Janine's.

I can see Emily killing Aunt Lydia. She isn't forgiving of people who have assisted in the horrors of the Gilead. She had no mercy for the Commander's wife that she killed at the colonies. Another scenario that I can see is that one new war starts some of the younger American refugees will train to fight and will return with Canadian troops and their allies and will kill some of the Aunts, Commanders, the wives, and the guardians.

Janine in her loony mind somehow doesn't hate Aunt Lydia and also Aunt Lydia stood up for Janine with SJ didn't allow her to attend that dinner in that episode last season. But, I can see Janine killing Commander Putnam and his wife and reclaiming her baby.

I suspect that Ofglen 2 had some allies who helped her make that bomb and they are still alive and are possibly planning to get revenge on Aunt Lydia for cutting out Ofglen 2's tongue.

They must be building up to an invasion in the finale. They explicitly pointed out that the Canadian troops had been joined by British troops (ie. nuclear armed), plus there'll be Free American forces too.

I liked it, very good acting. Serena joy is still a cunt, she’s shunting offred off to the colonies after this birth, but she’s super conflicted. I like that Toronto gets to look unapologetically torontonian, not fake Cambridge. I also liked that the Canadians got to act like Canadians, very pleasingly polite and helpful - at first, then resistant and passive-aggressive later. Super Canadian.

Also, the cigarette thing was an interesting plot twist, but lighting up in a bar seems such a distant memory to me now, do torontonians smoke in bars still?

There are four more episodes this season. I have the feeling that last two will either show the planning of an invasion or the Mayday resistance people do a major revolt on Gilead.

[quote]Moss, Bedel and Dowd are all killing it again though. So is Strahovski. There needs to be more group cast awards. And we need Aunt Lydia's backstory (HR or otherwise).

I think Strahovski deserves an Emmy nomination. she's not a favorite with critics or Emmy voters. She likely won't get one because she doesn't have the popularity of Dowd and Bledel in the supporting actress category. But, again Emmy voters can throw out some surprise nominations.

[quote]This unrealistic coddling of June because of her pregnancy.

After next episode (episode 10) I doubt you'll continue to feel that June is being 'coddled'.

The Israeli promo for the next episode is at the link (the Israeli promos have been showing different scenes than the American ones). BIG SPOILERS.

We see that Serena joy is a true bitch, she can’t have a real life, so she will ruin all others

SJ needs a beatdown by a group of handmaids with Emily leading the charge.

Thanks for posting r532. Yikes! Poor June

Something has to happen in the finale. I can't imagine June giving birth and letting the baby be taken away from her. Perhaps a Mayday revolt and she gets rescued?

Maybe there'll be a civil war.

They've definitely set up the possibility of war with Canada and what's left of the US, or some kind of major international incident/scandal. The show also hasn't made it completely clear what happened to the US' nuclear capability (the colonies suggest some kind of nuclear or chemical warfare occurred) so there are all kinds of directions they could go with that as well. If they are looking for longevity with the series, it would make sense to go down a more realistic sanctions and isolation route. Leave Gilead with no allies except maybe some extreme Islamic groups. A timely parallel to North Korea.

R538, I think they discussed sanctions against them in S1. They are already isolated and cut off from trade. That's why the Canadian meeting was so important.

The link for r532 doesn't work now. What did it show?

R539, I may be remembering it wrong but the impression I had was that Gilead is not so much cut off yet as it is a new country just coming out of war and are starting from scratch with the US' former allies. The events of the series start not all that long after the US government fell, a few years at most. The Mexican summitt, much like the Canadian one, was depicted as the older nations being very skeptical and uncomfortable but at least willing to talk. (Although the show still leaves open the possibility that each country is secretly working with what's left of the US.)

In that context it's very realistic to show Gilead still scrambling for trading partners and economic development. The former Soviet republics struggled for years after the dissolution to get their economies in order, even with NATO powers eager to work with some of them. With that much difficulty after a (relatively) peaceful revolution, you can only imagine the mess Gilead is in.

R540 If you have Facebook search for Hot Vod and the page will have the promo. The scenes shown in that promo are very spolerish.

Thank you for that spoiler.

Jesus, just when you think they have gone too far.

Apparently Hulu will be including an additional content warning with the next episode, alongside the usual one.

Yeah, it's going to be rough.

Well, the spoilers at r535 link are rough. I won’t give anything away, but it’s bad

Oh dear!

I need an extra midol

[quote]Something has to happen in the finale. I can't imagine June giving birth and letting the baby be taken away from her. Perhaps a Mayday revolt and she gets rescued?

I think something major will happen in the finale. I'm leaning towards a Gilead vs. Canada/remaining US and allies war. Mayday is somewhat limited and after the bombing of Rachel center or whatever it was called, the Mayday movement probably got derailed when that other Commander went nuts and starting ordering random people to be killed. It's possible Mayday could somehow carry out another attack that could be targeted towards the Commanders and their families. Canada and other allies have much more access to weapons and other resources than Mayday does.

I think there is small chance that Rita will somehow get June's baby away from the Waterfords if they take it away after birth. She is clearly fed up with being a servant and we have seen SJ mistreat her. We know her son is dead and she may feel that dying for a cause would be worth it to be out of the oppressive world of Gilead.

R548 good post. I think you’re right about Rita. And SJ didn’t just mistreat her, she used physical violence. .

I hope SJ goes down hard. Hate her more than Aunt Lydia.

Me too, she has been prettyfied up from the book, which shows her to be a vicious elitist crone

This video/article summed up why the showrunners changed Serena Joy for the show and made the character younger.

If the Hulu showrunners had kept Serena Joy a bit older kind of like the in 1990 movie- I wonder late 40s/early 50s actress from today could have play SJ well.

R551, Laura Linney.

I see Francis Macdormand

Frances could kill it, but I'd rather see her playing a resistor.

LauraLinney is a good choice

[quote]Laura Linney is a good choice

I agree...I could see Frances McDormand more as Aunt Lydia

Aunt Lydia I see as YOUNGER than Serena joy.

This was an intense episode with great acting. Loved the opening with Emily. But, the way the episode ended totally pissed me off. It looks like one of the predictions made here will come true.

No nitpicking on this one... they really knocked it out of the park, with great work from everyone involved.

And once again, an episode filled with sequences that look like they were specifically made to spotlight what's going on in our own current reality, with immigrant children ripped from their parents.

Awful that the TV show that best reflects America 2018 is "The Handmaid's Tale."

It’s horrid

Agree with r559.

What is everyone’s opinion on whether June escapes or not? I’m on the fence.

June-bug bump

I don't think she'll escape. How's an unaccompanied, 9 months pregnant handmaid going to pass undetected?

I reckon she finds her way back to the Waterford's house but now Cmmd Waterford and Serena Joy are under suspicion for allowing their handmaid such illegal 'freedom'.

Plus if the writers allowed her to escape it'd be the end of the road. Unless June is in Gilead, they don't have a story.

I love Emily. I was seriously expecting her to pull some kind of dick-poisoning device out of her vagina after that first scene. Those kicks were very satisfying to watch.

June's escape (or going "missing") may somehow be the triggering event for war. Gilead accuses Canada of abducting or harboring a pregnant handmaiden. I'm actually more curious about what happens to the Waterfords. No way they can get away with having a pregnant handmaiden disappear twice.

I think Fred will probably be punished for setting up that meeting between June and Hannah.

I wish there would have a bit more on that younger Commander whose wife is pregnant. I wonder if there is a chance that the younger Commander is a double agent in league with the remaining US government.

[quote]June's escape (or going "missing") may somehow be the triggering event for war. Gilead accuses Canada of abducting or harboring a pregnant handmaiden. I'm actually more curious about what happens to the Waterfords. No way they can get away with having a pregnant handmaiden disappear twice.

I hope the Waterfords don't get away this time. But, I'm guessing Fred will weasel his way into avoiding trouble. The war with Canada should at least start at the end of this season.

I looked through Handmaild's Tale subreddit and someone has the theory that June will escape into Canada and the following seasons will be about them trying to get Hannah and the war with Gilead.

I can't see how she could escape. Her main ally has just been arrested and she's left in an isolated location, nine months pregnant and in full Handmaid garb. Where's she going to go? What's she going to do? It'd be completely unrealistic for her to somehow make her way to Canada in her current situation.

I can only see the Waterfords realising she's missing and bringing her back.

R565, I can't believe they would introduce a character like that and then not use him, especially since he didn't seem bothered AT ALL about not having a handmaiden. They could do a lot with that storyline. What if this is the beginning of then end of the fertility crisis? What happens to Gilead if there if the justification for handmaidens arose? Will the men just accept it or demand them anyway? What if the men of color start showing higher rates of fertility than white men? Maybe this leads to civil war as opposed to or in addition to war with Canada.

She's in the cold with no transport or food and a seemingly abandoned/empty home.

Stillbirth? Baby dies?

I completely mangled a sentence in R568. It should read: "What happens to Gilead if the justification for handmaidens ends?"

R569 - Exactly. She's in the middle of nowhere with nothing. She's hardly jumping on a plane to Montreal.

Certainly not anytime soon, R571. Which is why I wonder if she's stranded long enough to have the baby and the baby doesn't survive. But there are plausible scenarios for her to get to Canada, or at least somewhere far. Nick has been taken in, and he no doubt knows higher ups who are in MayDay. He can send someone to rescue her even if it takes a while for him to get the word out.

I just remembered though that presumably Waterford knows where this meetup happened. I don't think they said for sure, so it's possible he doesn't just to give him plausible deniability. But June is going to assume he knows and there's no way she is just going to stay put.

Waterford arranged it. Of course he knows where she is.

They already mentioned the fact she should be back in three hours. They didn't just chuck that in out of nowhere.

Here's the preview for next week's episode, it looks like the Waterfords don't know where June is

Ah so she manages to steal a car.

I can't see her getting very far though. Where's she going to go? The first checkpoint she comes to they'll realise within seconds she's a pregnant Handmaid and women aren't allowed to drive in Gilead.

Fred probably knows the general area of where that house is located at. Maybe he doesn't know the exact address.

Three more episodes. I think June will be found at the end of the next episode and maybe gives birth in episode 12. The season finale could be the Watefords taking the baby, but a Mayday attack happens and Mayday gets the baby away from them and June gets sent off to another district.

Fred gave Nick a piece of paper with the address of the house, Fred knows where it is.

I hoping June escapes for real this time. The story needs to move forward. This back and forth is getting a bit tedious.

I reckon June gets picked up by the Guardians/Eyes and questions are asked of the Waterfords as to how and why she was there, thereby showing their guilt in breaking the rules.

Oops wrong thread.

That was a great cliffhanger.

[quote]Where's she going to go?

Canada? if she goes on back roads, ditches the car before the border and then hikes through the woods, she may be fine. Massachusetts is only a few hours from Canada.

I think it might be interesting if she makes it to Canada, and then next season has to sneak back in again as an agent of the new US govt. in Alaska & Hawaii to get more info. She would want to get back to get Hannah/Agnes out anyway.

The closing aerial shot of this last episode, with June isolated in her red outfit in all the white snow, was really stunning.

SPOILER ALERT: Thanks for posting that, R574. I can't quite make out what Serena says when Fred is choking her, something like, "You've..... nothing." Can anybody make that out?

Could Nick's arrest have been set up by Waterford after June told him it wasn't his baby?

That's in interesting thought, R584, but I don't think Waterford would have risked leaving June stranded like that. If the arrest was staged, the Guardians would have grabbed her and either returned her or gotten rid of her.

We know Nick is in The Eyes. I think there could be a scenario in which other Eyes have been keeping tabs on Nick and the Waterfords. We know that there are power struggles between the Commanders and I could totally see some other Commander trying to bring down Fred and SJ.

Spoiler:

She said “you left me with nothing”

Thanks, R587!

The Israeli promo

Hope Hulu knows when to stop the show.

Season 3 is confirmed and I'm sure all involved may want to continue beyond that but can the quality be sustaine? Might be best dramatically to finish with season 3 but financial considerations may work against that.

I think it should have four seasons and then end.

I don’t see June’s husband waiting much longer for her. If they do finally reconcile, I think it will be strained.

The Israeli promo got taken down from youtube. To view it look at the Hot Vod page on Facebook.

Can’t view the promo at r589 link. Says can’t view in your country

Can you tells what the promo shows?

The Israeli network Hot Vod seems to have taken down their Facebook page which had the previous promos posted. I'm guessing Hulu got pissed that Americans were viewing different promos which had some big spoilers.

I checked again the Hot Vod FB page is up. The promo for the current episode isn't there.

Continued on a new thread--this one is almost maxxed out.

----

....

----