Why are bisexual men so conflicted (and homophobic)?

They're probably not in a hurry to proclaim their man-lust side because they know they're going to end up with a woman anyway.

Becauses they see a stigmata about being gay so they would rather say they're bisexual. Less stigmata and more acceptable to society at large.

how about this - - they can easily introduce their girlfriend(s) to their family and friends... but their boyfriend(s) have to be kept a secret. As a guy who has dated more than a few bisexuals, that's been my observation. I love my bi guys - - they were very sweet, very sexy, but just don't expect them to integrate you into their lives. You'll always be their secret. Secrets can be hot, but hard to build a future on a secret. Until our society has zero negative repercussions on a guy for being with a guy, I think most bisexual guys are going to remain this way.

Hey see a stigmata. . .

Oh, DEAR!

Because they can't just be

[quote]Secrets can be hot, but hard to build a future on a secret. Until our society has zero negative repercussions on a guy for being with a guy, I think most bisexual guys are going to remain this way.

I think you mean most gay guys are going to identity this way.

Right, r6. Because all gay guy love to fuck women as well.

Oh please, no one loves to fuck women except straight guys.

R2 they don't use the word bisexual either, read gain.

This article has fuck all to do with Frank Ocean.

Why the conflict?

Gays say we don't exist.

Straight's don't want us to.

Because when we show up to a party, feeling good, we're the most fascinating person in the room. And the most threatening (to their programmed psyches).

You got that backward. They are bi because they are conflicted. Except for the real bis who will fuck any hole if it's lubed and holds still for a moment.

As for their conflict, who knows, who cares?

Gay men should stop ascribing femininity and non-masculinity to same-sex identity, and stop trying to thrust largely feminine "gay culture" on same-sex oriented men. Most same-sex oriented men want nothing to do with femininity, but so many gay men try to couple male-male interest with male femininity or non-masculinity. NO wonder bi dudes eschew gay/bi identity and associations.

Please, it's not "bi-phobia" on the part of gays, it's homophobia on the part of straight women. They don't want to date guys who do guys, so bisexual men have to live a lie. That is why bi guys are even more likely to be closeted than gay guys.

what's wrong with femininity ,R13? Intolerance!!!!!

True, R14. Much harder for a woman to 'manage' a guy when he's got serious options! lol

R16, it's not about "managing" - thanks to homophobia they see men who screw men as less masculine and "not a real man" regardless of whether he identifies as gay or bi. Plus they are afraid he will give them an STD

"Bisexuals" and closet cases are cowards. The end.

...and R18 supplies the evidence. Thread closed.

It is about masculinity. Anything that is seen as less than manly or masculine is disfavored and eschewed.

R20 That is right.

bump

People wrongly assume that all bi guys are gays in denial, many really are bi or straight with a slight anomaly of sexual desire in some form towards other men or what they can experience and feel by sexual activity with another man.

b

If you like closet cases, you'll love bi guys!

There's a difference between being genuinely conflicted, and realizing that passing for straight is both beneficial and easy.

The latter is very, very common.

This thread really didn't have to go further than r1.

scary creeps

R1 and R14 are right . Once you admit that you suck cock or occasionally stick your dick up a guy's ass, women are going to stop viewing you as an option for the most part, whereas a lot of gay guys actually fetishize bi guys. Therefore, it's much easier to marry a woman and find male hook-ups on the side than to do the opposite. Plus, most guys want biological children and straight social privilege...it's really not difficult to see why this happens. I'd bet there are still a significant number of gay dudes who would choose to be straight if they could do so.

Jake Gyllenhall, I'm talking about chu

Frank Ocean? He kinda came and went, didn't he?

I only date bi dudes. More masculine and mainstream.

R32 shut the fuck up you ingrate! Trolling or not that is one if the dumbest things I've read

I understand that most gays are cynical in regards to bisexuals since so many closet gay guys claim to be bi when they are really just gay, so it makes it difficult for genuinely bisexual men to get respect/acknowledgement.

But don't be ignorant and claim all bisexuals are closet cases, that's one of the stupidest generalizations made by usually by miserable gays who can't stand the thought of someone having it easier than them. Grow up!!

At the end of the day we live in a homophobic ass society so why be so butthurt and bitchy just because a bi guy chooses an easier path in life (straight path) and settles down with a woman. There are lots of gay guys that would choose to be straight if they could since it makes life EASIER!!

because "bisexual" is simply the greatest marketing scam ever invented (other than religion). It's basically gay guys who feel more "masculine" by pretending they could fuck a woman at any given moment. Please.

Well, as a porn fan, I can say those gay-for-pay fuckers (i.e., bisexual men who are too pussy to admit it) have ruined gay porn with their shenanigans. For that reason alone, I view them with contempt.

Haha I love all you gays saying I don't exist. I like to fuck pussy and ass why is that so hard to accept. Why are you gays so threatened and scared by bisexual guys.

We are more threatened by your poor grammar, R36. Your poor grammar makes me feel like I'm translating a second language.

I've met, and even had sex with, plenty of men who self-identified as "bisexual."

However, all of them were men who were married or involved with women, and were cheating on them with men.

I have NEVER met a man who was involved with a man, cheating on him with women on the side.

So-called "bisexual" men want the approval of everyone now: they want social approval by being visibly involved with women, but they want to be able to screw around with men as much as they want to. And now they seem to want approval for that.

Consequently, I have but a dim view of these guys, who always seem to be playing all ends against the middle.

(And don't get me started on the guys who have actually said that, if they cheat on their wives with men, they're not really cheating. I've several who have actually said just that.)

R34 and R35 for the win!!!!

Thread closed, so now all you tired, lame ass bisexuals (read deeply closeted queens) can go peddle your bullshit elsewhere.

I think it's because of the discrimination bisexuals phase in society. We should ask why they mostly always choose the straight life, or even refuse to even identify as bisexuals. Maybe society makes it too difficult? We need more openly bisexual men to come forward. Only then can we get rid of the stigma surrounding bisexuals.

Society is defined by labels, there's almost always a dichotomy, like big/small, tall/short etc. I think it's really hard for people to grasp that sexuality is not just either or.. there's something in the middle. It's "scary" for people, they just don't get it. Also.. it doesn't help that bisexuality encompasses everything from 1 to 5 on the Kinsey scale. You could be mostly heterosexual, and still bisexual, or mostly gay, and still bisexual. The scale is misleading, to say the least.

Our society is based on order. For a lot of people the idea that there is a grey area between black and white is a direct path to total chaos.

Now, because of this whole black and white (everything's got to have be correctly categorized and labeled!) a great deal of people feel the need to conform and commit to, well established group identities while there are others who resent these established group identities and create their own. Now, this is a very important development, because it creates a bigger appreciation for diversity. Decades ago what were the labels for sexual identity? Straight and ... degenerates. With time new labels have been created and it surely wasn't an easy process to introduce and establish these new labels. Bisexuality is just a new label that has been introduced and it faces opposition.

I dated a bi guy and never again. If a guy tells me he is bi, or mostly gay, I run a mile. The truth is, as suggested in the article, bi guys even the k5 mostly gay ones never value gay sex or relationships with the same joy and worth as they value straight sex , relationships.

Even the mostly gay ones would gladly throw away a LTR with a guy in a nanosecond so they spend 5 minutes fingering a chick in the back of a taxi.

I think bi guys should just own up to that and just repress their same sex attractions and stay straight.

R43, it's not always like that though. I agree that most bi men seem to choose the heterosexual lifestyle, but some actually do choose monogamous gay relationships. Andy Mientus is bisexual and engaged to be married to Michael Arden. Also.. that RJ guy from youtube is bisexual and engaged to Will.

If r43 is anywhere near as insufferably insecure irl as they come across in their post, I'd say bi men are well to be free of them. That kind of paranoia is hardly conductive to a healthy and meaningful relationship with anyone, be it gay or bi.

r44 Isn't Alan Cumming bi and married to a man as well? Doesn't look like he values relationships with men any less.

"Even the mostly gay ones would gladly throw away a LTR with a guy in a nanosecond so they spend 5 minutes fingering a chick in the back of a taxi."

ROFLMAO. It's the opposite. All the "bisexual" guys are running to the t-rooms to bang guys behind their wives' back - these guys always cheat with men and never any women. I never met a bisexual guy who preferred women to men....they call themselves bi because they slept with one woman and 300 guys.

b

I think that in many cases if the fear to be clasified and/or thought of as flamboyant/effeminate and be made fun of.

They don't want to be forcifully grouped into the flamboyant category by homophobic society.

bi guys are hot as fuck i dont care if they are messed up i like messed up

R49 How does sexual orientation determine attractiveness exactly? o.O

This is a good explanation of what it means to be bisexual.

Neither Alan Cumming or especially Andy Mientus is bisexual. This is one reason for the bias that bisexuals face. That people who are famous come out as bisexual but they are really gay. I know people who know both men and have always known them to be gay even during the time they claimed to be bisexual and were only with guys.

umm.. just because they're with guys doesn't mean they're gay. Just like Billie Joe in Green Day isn't magically straight now that he's married to a woman, he's still bisexual. Andy Mientus and Alan Cumming are probably bisexual with a preference for men.

I strongly believe that bisexuals are the actual majority of the human population. Both exclliusively homosexuals and exclusively heterosexuals are minoroties.

Because of social/cultural prejudice most define themselves as heterosexual for fear of being mistreated by society so they forcifully cling to stereotypical premises about being a heterosexual male to fit in and for mental relief.

I might be wrong, but I still believe bisexuality is the majority.

R54, you might be right, and it is a reasonable thing to assume. People rarely fall in the "extremes" - people who are exceptionally talented or don't have any talents, people who are very intelligent and people who are severely mentally disabled, people who are very tall or very short... etc, are always a minority: the majority of people fall somewhere in the middle. It would be safe to assume that the same could be applied to sexuality: some people are int he extremes, while most are somewhere in the middle.

Still, that doesn't make me get over my strong prejudice against bisexuals (I have never met one who wasn't despicable, and I have never met anyone who had had a relationship with a bisexual person, who didn't end up being betrayed, exploited and mistreated), but the fact that I have a negative perception of them doesn't minimize the fact that they may very well be the majority of humanity, and deny, repress or negativize their feelings due to social pressures.

Also, I agree: the more visibility they have, the more the rest of us will see that the sleazy, despicable and duplicitous types are not necessarily the norm; or else, they will not have to lead double lives anymore, and no one will get hurt in the process.

I don't think bisexuality determines personality traits.

I think that many gay guys are prejudiced against bisexual guys because of many reasons, for example, the fear that he could fall in love with a woman and break up with you.

Most guys, gay or bisexual, are afraid of the effeminate and flamboyant stereotype because once heterosexual people picture you as the stereotype it is like you lose power and heterosexual people feel the right to treat you as the clown of the party everybody can laugh at. If some are homophobic, it probably stems from this.

R54, studies show most men are not bisexual. Most straight men get aroused looking at women and only women, gay guys are the same except with men. Studies linking pupil dilation to arousal prove this.

Most "bi" guys would never leave you for women, most of them have never been within a 1 mile radius of a vagina

I identify as homosexual, but I have had crushes on girls before. My very first love was the girl next door when I was ten. After that I have kind of fallen in love with like two other girls, but my attraction to guys is much stronger. That apparently makes me bisexual to some degree despite the fact that I dientify as homosexual because I feel much more attrated to guys.

Probably, most men feel more attracted to women, but there is still room for some mild attraction to the same sex... 98% towards women; 2% towards men. Something like that.

Bisexuality is much more common in women than men. This is a fact, backed up by studies. That's not to say bisexuality doesn't exist in men too, just that it's much more rare. That again leads me to believe only a few of those who say they're bisexual are actually bisexual. Most bisexual men are either into women or men, but for some reason say they're bisexual. I think it would be more fruitful to ask why they feel the need to lie.

Come on, it's simple. They yearn for the cock but they're terrified to admit they're actually homos. It's their way of making themselves believe they're better than those dirty faggots.

Then how do you explain those bisexuals who get into monogamous relationships with other men? That doesn't fit into your theory, does it, R60?

most women want nothing to do with bisexual men, heck, even most bisexual women do not want to be with a bisexual man but bitch on why many lesbians won't date them. i say that most women are bi anyways

i am real bitches

[quote]Then how do you explain those bisexuals who get into monogamous relationships with other men? That doesn't fit into your theory, does it, [R60]?

Monogamous/schmonogamous, they still boast that they're "BI" even after they hook up with another man full time. They never admit they're just run of the mill homos.

Why would they if they aren't gay, R63? They don't suddenly become gay just because they're in a relationship with another man. They're still bisexual.

I think there are much more bisexual men than any study can tell you. Unfortunatley, we still live in a prejudiced world so we cannot see the actual percetange of bisexuality among men.

Bisexuality scares gays and lesbians because if we as a society acknowledge it exists then gays and lesbians will be looked at as even bigger freaks seeing as the can't reproduce, whereas straights and bisexuals can. If we acknowledge bisexuality then we also have to ask why exactly do a small minority of people only become attracted to the same sex. From an evolutionary point of view lesbians and gays are a freak of nature. That is why gays and lesbians are so biphobic.

[quote]I think there are much more bisexual men than any study can tell you.

Nah.. when studies measure arousal and bisexual men are aroused only when they see a guy or a woman.. that pretty much confirms that men claiming to be bisexual in reality aren't.. they're either straight or gay.

I call bullshit on R67. I love when DL "experts'" quote nonexistent studies.

OP, we just had a thread on bisexuals this week. You don't have to look any further than DL to see how much ignorance and parochialism there is on this topic--and this is a gay site. Why should bisexuals expect any more tolerance or understanding from straights?

[quote]I have NEVER met a man who was involved with a man, cheating on him with women on the side.

Well you should meet my childhood friend. He's been in a 14 years+ relationship with a man, but the two last persons he (emotionnally + sexually) cheated on the guy with are female colleagues. (and when he wants just sex he uses Grinder, with men). The last woman he fell in love with didn't love him back and had him in a train to Paris crying his eyes out for two hours while on the phone with me.

He says he's gay but he's aware that his actions don't match what he believes is his identity. I've told him many times that there's really nothing wrong with being "bi" and I don't understand why he wouldn't identify that way? He says it would cause an identity crisis and he can't handle that after all this time. We are all in our early 30s.

Isn't it puzzling that some gay men insist on the bisexual label because of their own homophobia, and that some bisexual men insist on the gay label because of their own biphobia?? Male problems.

And then men say we lesbians are dramatic!

I'm 34 and up to about two years ago I have always only ever been attracted to men, but recently I've started having feelings of a libidinous nature towards certain women. Also, I've been a bottom all my sexual life, but I've started becoming more of a top too. I don't like to use the term "bisexual" though as I'm not into labels. I think of myself as a Transorientationist.

to r70 i am 25 years old and have always been attracted to women until my 20th birthday, still am, and i am a man. I am into certain types of men too. That makes bi in my opinion and i don't feel ashamed of it.

There is a reason the gay/straight scale exists

You want proof, R68? Here you go..

[quote] In general, bisexual men did not have strong genital arousal to both male and female sexual stimuli. Rather, most bisexual men appeared homosexual with respect to genital arousal, although some appeared heterosexual.

Yes r72, out of the 7+ billion people in the world, the 33 in this study are going disprove bisexuality once and for all!

So you interview all 7+ billion people in the world, R73, and then get back to us.

It's called statistical sampling, moron.

And it's still to small of a sample to dismiss an entire orientation, r74. But it makes you feel better about your own narrow world views, then by all means cling to your flimsy study!

Oh dear R75.

My world view is quite large and expansive, R73/R75. However my view of deeply closeted queens like yourself trying to pass as straight or bi is quite narrow.

R77 So large and expansive that the simple idea that one is capable of being attracted to both men and women is unfathomable! They MUST be cowardly closet cases, because someone having an experience different to your own is too much for you to process!

For an alleged bisexual, R78, you certainly spend a lot of time on a GAY message board. Shouldn't you be out trying to score some primo pussy (LOL)?

These studies are bullshit. You know they also showed women are apparently turned on by monkeys fucking, but I don't think most women want a nice hard gorilla cock up their cunt.

r79 hates sharing spaces with their queer fellows, it seems.

You know how gays say all bi men are fucked up and evil. What is this being based on, give me some stories of fucked up bi men, give examples.

r82

they can't

r82 A lot of people -- gay and straight -- feel threatened by bisexuality. The possibility of having to compete with more than one gender appears to be too much for their insecurities to bear.

I have two really bad relationships with bi guys, of course I've hard break up with gay men, but I was never made feel more worthless than when with the bi break ups. yeah a part of that is because the had both been cheating on me with chicks, and they were very cold about it.

It also adds to the fact, they were more open about the women they left me for, I guess bi guys feel more comfortable being more socially open about their straight relationships, and I think that made me feel a lot worse and more worthless as a gay man. A lot of gay guys insecurities are also bi guys insecurities, so when a bi guy leaves them for women it does draw out a lot of gay men insecurities, we live in such a homophobic society, it's had for gay and bi men not to have baggage.

Also most gay friends who have dated bi guys told me nightmare stories about relationships, so all in all while I wish bi guys happiness I think for me it's not worth the risk or the feelings of worthlessness. It's not so much biphobic but experienced self preservation.

The study @R72 actually doesn't indicate that bisexuals don't exist, it implies what most of us have said all along: It's not a 50/50 proposition; most bisexuals are more strongly attracted to one gender or the other.

Of course, that study is worthless due to the sample size, as R75 correctly pointed out.

There's also a built-in bias in trying to obtain subjects for this type of research: many bisexual men self-identify as straight, especially if their primary (or entire) romantic history has been with women, regardless of the number of sexual contacts with men.

Thus, it's likely the vast majority of men who've had sex with both genders aren't closeted gays, they're bisexuals who simply don't see themselves as such due to their stronger attraction to women.

[R85] what nightmare stories I want to hear more. Anyone with stories of really messed up bi guys. What did they do

bump

You, as a colletive, are expecting bisexual men to embrace a homosexual identity, but they can't because they are not like us, they are bisexual.

Some of you are afraid of them potentially falling in love with a woman and leave you.

Bisexuality doesn't come with any personality traits, they are not any more mean than you might be. Porbably many bisexual men have had bad experienes with gay guys too.

Don't make sweeping generalisations. See things through rationality.

I say drop the "B" in LGBT. At least the trannies are willing to fight. B's are too busy chasing dick and pussy.

Bisexuality is an Islamic Brotherhood Conspiracy to dilute the gay rights movement with heteronormativity!

All I know is, the world of the heterosexual is a sick and boring life. Queers are just better.

i like messed up guys

Most bi guys probably don't identify as such. They're straight guys who occasionally like to mess around with other guys, or gay guys who can occasionally get it up for a woman.

I had plenty of encounters with guys in college and in my 20s who later went on to get married to women (As did many of my friends.). I suspect for most of them what happened between us was the exception, not the rule, an experiment to satisfy their curiosity. Are they bisexual? Depends how you define it. I believe the Kinsey scale pretty accurately reflects sexuality, that it's not black and white and that people are more curious and open when they are younger.

I think most bi guys are afraid to self-identify as such because there is such stigma to it, especially with women. The old "suck one dick and you're gay" theory (somehow women can have ten year lesbian relationships and go back to liking men, but if a guy has a single gay experience, he's gay for life.) There's also the fear of HIV and that he's less of a man because he also likes men. And then there is the fact that many 100% gay men say they are bi if they've ever been with a woman because it makes them seem less femme, I find it is sometimes used as a synonym for "masculine" or "straight-acting" on hook-up sites.

Finally, you have a lot of guys who were afraid to acknowledge they were gay or had an interest in men because until very recently Gay=AIDS=death and if you could pass it was just easier to ignore the gay thing and identify as straight or bi

I like telling guys I'm bi so they suck me off. Then I make up an excuse and leave before I have to suck them off.

[quote]I like telling guys I'm bi so they suck me off. Then I make up an excuse and leave before I have to suck them off.

But apart from that and spending your time on a gay gossip site you're 100% straight?

Oh, I don't like labels, r96. Wanna play around?

Yeah that notorious study that concluded male bi= liar has been totally and famously refuted. If you wanna bigot effectively then at least do your fucking research.

[quote]Thus, it's likely the vast majority of men who've had sex with both genders aren't closeted gays, they're bisexuals who simply don't see themselves as such due to their stronger attraction to women.

Link proving this.

And, is R86 actually R75 agreeing with himself?

I miss trolldar.

You can clear your cookies and avoid with yourself evading the ignore button too. You would be able to do this with trolldar too. Oh, well. If posts agreeing with other posts seem suspicious, just ignore them.

It’s not bi men who are mentally fucked-up liars -- it’s y’all pussy gay men pretending to be bi.

*You can clear your cookies and avoid the ignore button...

Bisexual men are fine. It's those "straight men who have sex with men" types I can't abide.

R105

"Straight" guys doing gay porn you mean?

r106 No, they're everyday guys who identify as "men who have sex with men". So, not gay (or "gay for pay") or bi. Maybe it was just a blip these people tried to make into a thing a few years back, as I don't read so much about them anymore.

Lke R70, I didn’t become attracted to women till my early 30s. I feel as if I had some sort of stunted sexual development and I just took longer to “get it” . I remember exactly the moment too: getting off to a porno and suddenly consciously realising there had been no guy around for the last 20 minutes. Wow. Talk about cognitive dissonance. And it accelerated from there ..like a second puberty.

Of course with hindsight there were pre-teen nascent het stirrings and some enjoyable teenage experimentation. But also a LOT of guilt, and compartmentalism -- I’d been regularly sexually active with older guys (often much older) since 14 years old; and feelings of inadequacy -- I just *knew* I could never compete for girls with heterosexual boys “the real deal” when I was fighting with one arm tied behind my back, my gay side. Plus being young and cute in the gay world I was treated like a fucking king.. *they” bought *me” shit and I did the choosing and rejecting! Those were the days. Oh well.

So I kinda painted myself into a corner..and here I am at 40 where it would be frankly fucking ridiculous and humiliating to seriously consider dating women because : 1) I’ve probably got less experience with da ladeez than ya modern twelve year old boy 2) I only want sex not a relationship; probably still protecting myself because I know the chances of finding a women accepting a bisexual is infinitesimal small and I’m too proud to lie.

[quote]And, is r86 actually r75 agreeing with himself?

How ludicrous, r100. I don't need to resort to replying to my own posts to get a point across, I'm just not the only one in this thread who isn't a complete idiot about sample sizes. A pity that there seem to be so few others who understand this that someone agreeing with me would raise that kind of suspicion.

Then post a better study R109.

The poster @ r98 has already done so.

[quote]Thus, it's likely the vast majority of men who've had sex with both genders aren't closeted gays, they're bisexuals who simply don't see themselves as such due to their stronger attraction to women.

Where's the study that proves this?

Indeed so, R111. And refuted by the self-same team too!

No, I'm not R75. But he's still right about the sample size.

R99 and R112 ...a link to prove an opinion? (Please note the use of the word "likely.")

If you read my post, I think I explained the paucity of research in this area.

However, if you'd like to fund a study, or series of studies, I volunteer to write the research proposal(s).

R108 -- a bit older than you, but ditto.

This whole thread is a great summation of the gay experience in America in 2015.

In order to get across the point that being gay is not a choice (it's who we are, not who we decided to be) we need to offer up a very black and white concept of sexuality: you are either gay or straight, no middle ground.

But our own experiences tell us that there's plenty of gray, plenty of guys who experiment, plenty of guys who have sex with men and with women. But in order to admit that, we have to admit that being gay is not an either/or thing and that feeds into the bigots who claim we "chose" our "perverted lifestyle"

[quote]If you read my post, I think I explained the paucity of research in this area. However, if you'd like to fund a study, or series of studies, I volunteer to write the research proposal(s).

Huh.

r98, that link said that only SOME of the men who identified as bisexual were really attracted to both men and women. Most were attracted to men only.

I’m a bit older than me too LOL! 44 actually. Blame it on my age-obsessed sneaky lying gay side ;)

R119 was for R115

R108, you "chose" to be gay because of stunted sexual development, and you didn't dare to date girls when you were a teenager because your "gay side" was a handicap? Mate, you sound like those incredibly creepy yestergays and hasbians who say that being gay is a biological abnormality and something defective. You should be in one of those Outstraight forums instead of in here.

The reason why most women don't want to have anything to do with men like you is because you are sleazy, hypocritical and devious, and they have too much dignity to put up with such a situation. In fact, your rather repulsive little rant makes you sound like a bisexual stereotype brought to life, and I'd find it surprising if ANYONE in the right mind wanted you at all. But don't worry, many gay men are desperate to get anything they can find and, also, there's the self-hating sub-set who find the idea of a man being bisexual or straight arousing.

However, you shouldn't despair: there are lots of fat, lonely middle-aged women who are desperate to find validation by "turning" a gay man "straight" while allowing him to give into his stunted sexual development and fighting with one arm tied behind their backs, or their "hay side". You should try them! They are just as appealing as you, and equally repulsive.

R98, Are you referring to the actual study’s break down via a NYT link? I haven’t had time to read the study. Otherwise I think that was just acknowledging the confusion elicited by the last study as well as the needlessly all-too-obvious truth that SOME gay men are lie about being bi. But sexual research is notoriously murky and not at all clear cut. If I recall correctly that earlier study had a gay guy classified “straight” on the basis of his responses, and self-identified bis who didn’t react to the gay porn when really they had no incentive to lie.

For that matter I don’t know how I would fare in these tests using porn of same-sex couplings -- I’m not turned on by “lesbian” sex (bizarrely with exception of tribbing or scissoring) and generally find sexually dominant women unattractive (yeah I know that makes me a sexual hitler); and I’m entirely turned off by gay porn, which at no point have I ever had a desire to watch (and yet I find guys kissing hot so it’s not simply internalised homophobia at work)

Desire is fucking complicated ..much more so than either science or statistics

R122 > R118

Some guys repressed whatever, even slightly Kinsey 5 ish, bisexual feelings they may have had back in the 70s/80s under the "one drop rule" where if you were at all hot for the peen, you were home. Bi didn't exist as an identity then, but gay was starting to not the doomed existence of before. Most guys in this situation aren't identifying as "straight" or ashamed to like guys. Stop accusing all bi guys of that!

R121, i’d like to answer you points or rather deliberate distortions of my words, but, alas, it’s evident you’re here for a witch burning session rather than an opportunity to understand a fellow human’s life experiences

Be well

[quote] generally find sexually dominant women unattractive (yeah I know that makes me a sexual hitler

No, just one of those repulsive jizzsacks who think sex is a fight that has to be won aka a TERRIBLE lay. "Sexually dominant" ? Very good thing that you're gay because men like you are the plague in women's lives.

R124 -- see, I think that did start to happen some in the late 70s/early 80s, but then AIDS came along and there was an extreme stigma to being gay, so most of those kin of guys stopped admitting to being bi. There were a bunch of cases where women were infected by bi guys so it became even more of a stigma and that's still sort of where we are now.

R116 -- interesting point. Bi does kind of make it seem like it's a choice.

R116, honey bunny, I had sex with women, a few times, but that was because we had too back then, it surely didn't make me bisexual.

I'm possibly prejudiced but when I hear of bisexual men I ink of my own experiences, they are simply not ready to come out yet.

It's a "stigma" now largely with gay male bi-phobia. As for straight women, they can't get enough of this MM romance crap! In that regard, they're as bad voyeurs as straight men and lesbians.

But isn't that the point R116? That many on DL want to say that a few experiences with the same sex make a straight guy a bisexual?

There are guys on here who will tell you that you are bi because you were able to get it up and fuck a woman, even if you were thinking of Brad Pitt the whole time.

^^Meant that for R128, not R116

A guy who has had sex with women out of a sense of obligation, shall we say, is not bisexual.

A guy who is specifically open to the idea, and doesn't regret it later, even if he is strongly peen-centric, is bisexual.

The best indicator of your sexuality are J/O fantasies and what porn you’re naturally drawn to watch when alone with no one to impress or convince

R116 - I'm fully aware of dictionaries and their definitions, thanks. I'm not convinced that they apply to the vast majority of those who use the label "bisexual male".

R116, I disagree with your notion. Many gay people are averse to bisexuality because of very negative experiences shared by many members of the community, as well as the fact that the constant threat of potential heterosexuality is forced upon us: the proverbial "you haven't found the right girl/guy yet" or "it's just a phase that you're going through, and then you'll be normal again" or "effin' faggot/dyke, let's teach them a lesson by raping them!" are things that might be seen as distasteful and ignorant by some, but are not openly expressed by many out of fear of condemnation. The truth is that we live in a world in which being gay is a stigma, and we constantly have to defend our identity from attacks that range from relatively mild "careless" comments to violent attacks.

Bisexual people don't really face these dangers and when they stupidly say "I am straight/gay because it's a choice", they are allowing our enemies to strengthen their resolve in humiliating us and renew their efforts to "steer us to the right path". It's irresponsible of them to claim an identity that isn't truly their and simplify it as a matter of choice, because it isn't a matter of choice for many - just as it isn't a matter of choice for them to be bisexual, even if they are scared of admitting it to themselves out of fear of rejection. Then again, if bisexual people do not have the courage to become more visible, how are they going to be able to fight biphobia and bi-erasure? We homosexuals have had to bear the brunt of fighting for Queer acceptance and, as such, we know the price that you have to pay in order to force others to at least respect you. It is sort of offensive that we are carrying bisexuals on our backs, when bisexual people don't want to do anything for us and desperately want to cling on to heterosexual privilege.

So no, the situation is more complex than you present it. Also, "gay" men who have sex with women are not gay. They are bisexual and they are contributing to strengthen the absurd notion that we can be "turned" with their dishonest actions. That's why there should be separate bi and trans movements, because they have their own issues, all of which are very independent from what we homosexuals need and want.

[quote]Also, "gay" men who have sex with women are not gay. They are bisexual and they are contributing to strengthen the absurd notion that we can be "turned" with their dishonest actions.

Sing it, sis.

[quote]I'm possibly prejudiced but when I hear of bisexual men I ink of my own experiences, they are simply not ready to come out yet.

Yes, you are predjudiced, and therein lies a big part of the problem re: bi-erasure. Stop projecting your issues onto others. No two people are the same, so your experience is not going to be a universal one.

And r135 is delusional if they really think that bisexuals are just piggybackers who haven't fought as hard for Queer acceptance as the rest of their LGBT fellows.

Unless you personally experience attraction to both sexes you can have NO insight into the phenomenon at all; no more than a homophobe that because he can’t imagine how homosexuality feels therefore deems it illegitimate and unnatural. So either be open to learn from those who are bisexual or STFU

Learn what exactly, R138? How different we are? How uncomfortable most bisexual people feel being close to gay people, or thought of as gay? How exploitative they are against gays?

Also, if you bisexuals have different issues, maybe you should create your own spaces and stop polluting ours with your issues, don't you think so? After all, you have very wisely stated that we are completely different and no, we cannot understand each other.

[quote]Stop projecting your issues onto others. No two people are the same, so your experience is not going to be a universal one.

pretty palavers but not practical. I've just met FAR too many closeted "bisexuals" - and I have met not closet cases too, but maybe one out of a hundred. when I see odds like that, my mind starts to close.

Oh R139 *sigh*

Learn to challenge your own distortions, victim complex, and gross generalizations -- you personally polled “most” of those bisexuals? .... Sorry, I stopped reading at that point..but I advise you to seek help

Well r140, I'm sorry to hear that challenging your own prejudices requires far too much brain power. Carry on, I guess.

Yes, R141 - every gay man in this thread has trashed bisexuals, but we're crazy and have a victim complex. Sure, sweetie. Sure.

Everyone is crazy, evil and irrational but you and your ilk.

Also, what could we learn from bisexuals? To whine about how evil gays are and how all heterosexuals accept and respect you? To exploit gay people and uphold heterosexuality as the epitome of human development?

No, thank you. Also, what the hell are you doing in a GAY message board?

R143 Well heterosexuality is the epitome of human development seeing as if we didn't have children the human race wouldn't exist. Gays and lesbians are freaks of nature. If society accepts bisexuality then we have to address why do some people end up being excursively attracted to the same sex. Honestly gay men have huge issues with women look at the way you talk about women on this site and lesbians have huge issues with men too, the way they talk about men is disgusting. Straights and Bisexuals don't have the issues its gays and lesbians with the major issues.

I’m bi and don’t see having children per se as the epitome of human development..any louse or cockroach or Perez aHilton can breed

If anything society would probably accept homosexuality before bisexuality because most people are black and white thinkers. Heterosexuality and homosexuality are two sides of the same coin while bisexuality lies in the uncomfortable gray area.

So what do we think of ASEXUALITY!?

R147 That doesn't exist any way back to fucked up bi guys

[quote]they were very sweet, very sexy, but just don't expect them to integrate you into their lives.

Oh, so you've met my last boyfriend, I see.

Apparently, there are gay and straight asexuals; which I don't understand. If you're asexual, how can you have an orientation???

Look at Tom Daley - he's a bisexual who's in a LTR with a guy. Who, according to Daley, is also latently bi.

r144 "Freaks of nature" is a poor choice of words, I think.

r150 Asexuality is just a lack of sexual desire. Asexuals are still capable of romantic attraction.

Asexually tends to be found in women who were sexual abuse victims or have zero sex drive and men who can't deal with their homosexuality and are repulsed by themselves, othe gay men, and gay sex.

[quote]Asexuality is just a lack of sexual desire. Asexuals are still capable of romantic attraction.

Thanks, that's interesting. Going back to bisexuality: I've been with two guys who were definitely bisexual (both had mostly been with women in the past - one is married to a woman now) and in both cases I would say that they were fine with being sexually attracted to guys but seemed to have problems expressing (or even feeling) any kind of romantic attraction to men.

I do think the difference between sexual and romantic desire is fascinating and not something we tend to talk about much.

The pupil dilation study also showed that bisexual men had pupillary dilation both for men and women. I do believe bisexuality exists. I also believe there are gays who say they are bisexual because they feel it is more socially acceptable.

[quote]I have NEVER met a man who was involved with a man, cheating on him with women on the side.

Well someone on this very forum described a relationship he had like that. So just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean that it's not possible.

[quote]So just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean that it's not possible.

No r155, hush hush!!! You can't bring that kind of logic in here, heads will EXPLODE! Their lone experience is the ONE and ONLY, totally universal experience! Any others that might contradict it are IMPOSSIBLE!!

R144, gay men and women can still procreate - not just by "traditional" means, as hets would, but throughout history many gay people have been forced to marry and yes, they had children. So no, a biological impulse and the ability to procreate doesn't elevate heterosexuality above anything else, because sexuality goes beyond mere reproduction. If that were the case, sex among human beings would be confined to very restrictive patterns, as it happens with most mammals. If recreational heterosexual sex is not conductive to reproduction, should be also present it as and "abnormality"?

However, your little display of homophobia made it clear: bisexual people are NOT gay, and they don't have a right to pollute the spaces we have fought so hard to build with our effort and suffering. if you don't want to be with the "freaks of nature" and are so proud of your reproductive abilities, go somewhere else. Also, do same sex impulses make bisexuals like you half freaks? Are you saying that bisexuality is a partial anomaly, or does that not fit well into your "straights and bis are better than faggots" little theory, and so you only condemn people who exclusively feel attracted to the same gender? Also, how do you explain animals who engage in same sex activity, either exclusively or periodically? Are they also "freaks of nature", or is that solely reserved to people who do not fit into your homophobic vision of the world?

Oh, and allow me to remind you that there isn't a human race - it's a species, separated into races. Maybe you could start from there, and try to build a theory as to why if society accepted bisexuality, the "gay and lesbian" problem would need to be addressed... Well, maybe because, in your opinion, we are "freaks"? LOL!

Finally, there are misogynistic men everywhere, and there are misandric women everywhere. I have heard heterosexual men refer to women as "holes", "cunts" and "bitches", and heterosexual women refer to men as "pigs", "a piece of dick" and "bastards". Does that mean that they don't have severe issues, or is it just that fags and dykes have them? Also, SOME gay men resent women because they stupidly see them as a competition, and there are groupuscules of gay men obsessed with hyper-masculinity who hate anything to do femininity, including effeminate gay men - does that mean that they have issues with women, or also with queens and twinks? Also, heterosexual men who feel disgusted at femmy gay men hate on women because they see femininity as being lower than maleness and thus, unworthy in a man, or is it just us faggots who are prejudiced against women?

Similar arguments could be used regarding lesbians and men - there are heterosexual and even bisexual (GASP!) women who are misandric, and that doesn't mean that they are necessarily defective or maladjusted or freaks.

However, allow me to remind you that there are many gay men who feel extremely comfortable and at ease among women and have (unbelievable, I know), lots of female friends, and there are lesbian women who feel at great ease with men and have lots of male friends.

In short, your arguments are poor, which is to be expected from YET ANOTHER bisexual bigot who thinks that his potential/partial heterosexuality places him above defective gay people. As I have said before, neither you nor any other bisexual person should be here. You are obviously not comfortable and allow me to let you in on a little secret: WE DON'T WANT YOU.

Go hang out with people who are the epitome of human development because they can reproduce (by the way, what happens with heterosexual people who don't want children or are sterile? Are they freaks as well?), and leave us alone.

Also, R150, there are bisexual people who are coalescent (they can experience both romantic and sexual desire for both genders, although in differing levels of intensity depending on context/period in their lives/person/main preference/etc), and bisexual people who are dissociative (they can experience sexual AND romantic attraction for one gender, but only EITHER romantic OR sexual desire for the other - never both). On top of that, you get bisexual people with disjointed sexualities who experience romantic attraction to one gender, but sexual attraction to the other.

These are very interesting issues that you could all analyze in great depth in a space of your own. I am sure that there are plenty of forums for bisexual people out there. This is a forum for GAY people, so you know - take the hint and go with your issues somewhere else.... Preferably a place with plenty of people who are the epitome of sexual development. They will understand you better than us, freaks of nature who have issues with the opposite sex and can't reproduce.

r157

you don't want anything to do with a bi man until he is all hot and naked.

Ummm R135, you just restated R116's argument, just in a lot more words. And I agree with both of you. The existence of bisexuals freaks a lot of gay men out because it does make it seem like being gay is a choice and we just haven't met the right woman yet.

Although this has nothing to Frank Ocean,Frank is gay not bisexual.I DK what he has to do with the original article.

R160, I said that R116 was oversimplifying the situation, not that I agree with him.

Personally, i think that bisexual people should leave the gay and lesbian movement, and create their own spaces.

And many gay people react badly to bisexuality because of a myriad of things, but yes, the false bisexual discourse that reduces homosexuality to a personal choice is very harmful. Still, most of us reject bisexuals due to their very negative and abusive attitude towards gay people. Just look a few posts up and you will see someone calling gay men freaks of nature.

But you do agree with what he's saying R162

No. What I said that: 1. Gay people present sexuality as a binary because for us, IT IS a binary. 2. We reject the notion of people "choosing" to be either gay or straight because this is a fallacy that can have very detrimental effects on the achievements that the gay rights movement has obtained. 3. The dishonesty of bisexuals is harmful to us all, because it reinforced the notion that certain bigots have that sexuality is a matter of choice, when in reality it isn't. 4. Transsexual people and bisexual people have very different issues from those faced by the gay community, and they should have their own separate movements - we gay people have carried them on our backs for far too long. In the past this was necessary, but now they are visible and OUR HARD WORK has enabled them to achieve visibility without facing reprisals, so they should start their own movements, each of them separate from ours. 5. Instead of whining about bi erasure, bisexuals should have the courage to get off their lazy arses and do something about it, instead of hiding in heterosexual relationships and complaining that gays are not willing to do the heavy lifting for them anymore. 6. Supposedly "gay" men who are actually bisexual should stop latching on to the gay movement because they are not gay.

R116 says that sexuality is neither either/or, when in reality this is only applicable to bisexuals, not gay and straight people. If you want to discuss whether there are more bisexual people than it is indicated in the statistics available, or that many people will refuse to identify as bisexual because they fear being shunned and losing their social networks, that is an entirely different matter altogether.

So no, I do not agree with him. He tries to justify them and blames gays for reinforcing the polarized view on sexuality that society has, while I am saying that for us this polarity is real and it is not our obligation to fight the battles of those who are in the middle.

He also says that gay people feel threatened by men experimenting and being somewhere in the middle, when I say that, in reality, we feel threatened by the constant invalidation that we face from a society that has only started to begrudgingly accept us. Also, we do not feel threatened by ambiguity, but by duplicity, exploitation and misrepresentation.

Now, is that clear enough for you?

Way too much to read R164. I still think you agree with him.

TROLL alert for R160/R163/R165.

Bisexual men are superior

Because they hardly exist

R168, And yet somehow bi men happen to DOMINATE your “gay”’ porn and, in truth, have done so for generations, forming the foundational sexual fantasies of generations of developing gay men. Gay men must really despise themselves and that perceived lack of authentic masculinity, non? And is it really just perception? The billion dollar porn industry must know something, right? Porn customers vote with their dicks and clicks. BOTTOM line: an OVERWHELMINGLY greater portion of gay men than bisexuals are likely to be effeminate (not that theres anything wrong,,,) and you gay men the MAJORITY are not interested in them sexually. First sort your own fucking house and self-esteem problems before you attack others.

(N.B. This is not aimed at the sane and rational gay men who make life such a joy, only at the hysterical bigot martyr-complex loons )

[quote]And yet somehow bi men happen to DOMINATE your “gay”’ porn and, in truth, have done so for generations, forming the foundational sexual fantasies of generations of developing gay men. Gay men must really despise themselves and that perceived lack of authentic masculinity, non? And is it really just perception? The billion dollar porn industry must know something, right? Porn customers vote with their dicks and clicks. BOTTOM line: an OVERWHELMINGLY greater portion of gay men than bisexuals are likely to be effeminate (not that theres anything wrong,,,) and you gay men the MAJORITY are not interested in them sexually. First sort your own fucking house and self-esteem problems before you attack others.

I have a Psy.D and this gives me an edge...So is this poster:

A.) A seriously deranged tranny, as in Dressed to Kill

B.) An odd troll who likes CAPS

C.) A transgender person, angry over life's unfairness

D.) A vicious SJW who'd throw gay men under the bus to prove a point.

If you ask me, I would say about the entire human population:

10% exclusively homosexual. 10% exclusively heterosexual. 78% bisexual. 2% asexual.

Most bisexuals attracted to women more than to men. Social/cultural prejudice, stigmatization and condemnation of same-sex attraction leading most bisexual people to identify as heterosexual. In this pool you will find most homophobes who react by the fear of being perceived as non-heterosexual (reaction formation).

No way is the percentage of the population that's gay the same as the percentage that's straight. If that much of the population was bisexual, you'd see far more instances of same-sex hook-ups in places like the army or prisons, etc (a lot goes on already, but not in a majority of cases; nowhere near). It's a nice idea and I wish it were true, but my guess is that the basic notion we have now of how much of the population is gay/straight/bi is roughly accurate; ie. 2% gay, 1% bi and 97% straight.

Bisexual men are superior. They can reproduce and enjoy having sex with men. The fact that a gay man doesn't want to stick his dick in a vagina means you're a freak of nature seeing as you don't want to breed. Same goes for lesbians who don't want a dick in their vagina. Bisexual men are superior to all other men and all women. Women can never fuck, they can only get fucked. Sure they can have a strap on but its fake, they will never no what it is like to fuck someone. Gays hate bisexuals because then they are freaks of nature and women hate bisexual men because they can't control bisexual men, simply because we have too many serious options.

LOL R173, shots fired, muthafukin SHOTS FIRED!!!!

r173 Your assertion that bisexual men are superior because they can procreate "and enjoy having sex with men" is negated by your other assertion that men who are attracted to men are a "freak of nature". If your second assertion is a given then bisexual men are inferior because they too are attracted to the same sex.

However, if you have an intelligent view of how a species maintains itself, you would realize that a group filled only with breeders would be unhealthy as it takes a great deal more than just that to support any culture. With this in mind, breeders procreate, those who can't or don't want to will support the culture in any number of ways... while bisexuals are too busy trying to work out what exactly they are to either procreate or do anything productive. That's why only 1% of the population is bisexual, thankfully.

"People who have only one leg are a FREAK OF NATURE! But even though I only have one leg I am superior to everyone because I have 17 TOES ON MY ONE FOOT!!!"

R175 No bisexual men are superior to gays because they can breed and they are superior to straight men because they can enjoy having sex with men as well, we have more avenues of pleasure. Having sex with men doesn't make you inferior it only makes you inferior if that is what you want exclusively. Humans need to breed otherwise we would go extinct. If you can't or don't want to breed you are a failure in evolutionary terms. Also there are a lot more bisexuals than 1 per cent of the population and more men are bisexual than women. It is just most bisexual men don't come out and most bisexual women are only fooling around for attention. R174 yeah my cum shot up your ass. R176 Oh shit look it is another insecure faggot. Also why are you fags so scared and threatened by us bisexual men. Its funny how insecure we make you.

r177 That's nice, dear. Your posts are reeking of pseudo-confident virgin. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you've probably never even spoken to a girl and we all know what you think about when furiously pumping that tiny sausage of yours. Anyway, be well, hun. Good luck getting laid. x

R178 I've fucked both men and women and my 'sausage' aint small but you keep telling yourself that I am just like you if that makes you feel better.

To be fair the OP did rather set the tone from the get go. Something tells me this thread possibly might not have been designed to facilitate greater understanding and fellowship

Anyone dated a bisexual man? What was he like? Is OP right are they homophobic and conflicted?

You are falling for R177's pointless incendiary statements, the aim of which is to offend. Several people have given him very good responses, but he's just trying to be as offensive as possible as a reaction to the negative things that are being said about bisexuals (many of which are true, by the way).

Just laugh at his childish little tantrums and continue discussing the subject freely.

The conflict comes from the married bis. Just as conflict ensues from affairs with supposedly monogamous gay men. Just as conflict occurs as a result of being in a relationship a closeted gay man.. a religious gay man..etc etc etc

R182 Haha my childish tantrum. Sorry your so insecure mate. Also many of which are true? What ones are true?

[quote]Your posts are reeking of pseudo-confident virgin.

Certainly does not sound like a sexually active bisexual man. I assumed troll at first, but I think you're right on the virgin point.

The guy saying bisexuals are superior sounds pretty much like he's trying to find some comfort to fight an iferiority complex. Any heterosexual guy could tell you you're inferior for being bisexual and not heterosexual. Some heterosexual women might reject you because to some of them you're not a "real man" if you're not heterosexual.

Some, if not most homosexual men, might reject you for considering them inferior to you. You end up alone.

The more queeny a guy, the less likely his ability to get it up for pussy; therefore the less likely his ability to get it up for pussy means the more unambiguously masculine he presents; the more unambiguously masculine he presents, the less likely he is mistaken for a female; gay men prefer males not females. Do the math, girls.

oops fucked up a line (must have been thinking about boobs)

* The more queeny a guy, the less likely his ability to get it up for pussy; THEREFORE THE *MORE* LIKELY HIS ABILITY TO GET IT UP FOR PUSSY MEANS THE MORE UNAMBIGUOUSLY MASCULINE HE PRESENTS; the more unambiguously masculine he presents, the less likely he is mistaken for a female; gay men prefer males not females. Do the math, girls.

Well, R182, I'm secure enough to say that I don't care about bisexuals either way, even though as a gay man, I've only had awful experiences with them, and I've never met anyone who had something positive to say about them. Of course, I am mature enough to understand that the negative sticks out, while decent people normally go undetected because no one ever has anything awful to say about them.

However, with your attitude, you're just adding fuel to the fire for those who want to attack them. I understand that you probably feel attacked and misunderstood, but your attitude is just childish and the equivalent of saying "oh, you're talking sh*t about me and saying that you're unhappy about people like me? Well, you're just jealous because I'm better than you fags, na-na-na-na!". I get it if you're offended, but you're doing very little to dispel the negative perceptions that many have of bisexuals.

Anyway, supposing that you're really bisexual and not just doing this to rile people up, I just want to say good luck with everything you do in your life.

R189 what negative experiences. All you fags keep saying Bisexuals are so fucked up and no one has another positive to say about us, yet when asked for examples you don't say shit. Go one give examples what do people say what are your negative experiences? Did a bi guy break your poor weak feeble heart is that why you go around hating bi guys.

Can’t we all just get a dong?!

R190, I have come to the conclusion that you're just a troll. You don't want to discuss anything, but insult people for no reason. If you're so unhappy with what people are saying, simply open a new thread presenting the positive aspects of bisexuality and trying to engage in a productive debate, or leave this thread and move on to better things.

However, than wouldn't be nearly as fun as behaving like a pouting little child, so stay here spewing nonsense. Goodbye and good luck.

If I could I’d hook up with a bisexual every time. 80% of gay guys don’t cut it as men.. always something is “off” -- isn’t that precisely what gaydar is picking up on?

To be fair 10% of bi guys don’t cut it as masculine either

A flamer bisexual is the equivalent of a black dude with small dick or a fat chick with no tits

I'm actually enjoying this troll XD.

Don't take it seriously.

Bi men typically screw over everyone they're involved with, men, women, doesn't matter. Bi men don't place any value on gay relationships and keep them a secret, and women involved with bi men are going to get cheated on constantly. Nobody has a good experience with bi men, that's why bi men are hated. A lot of bi women are attention whores and fakes, but bi men are the most sociopathic group on the planet.

Hush, R197, you just need a good dicking down by a real man with some bass in his voice and a child safety seat in the rear

Whenever I see a gang of loud screechy homosexuals acting out and, as all too often witnessed, attempt to intimidate the lone straight guy on the subway with their crude sexual innuendo or worse, I frequently want to get up punch them. For some reason I never feel the same way about bisexual men.

I've never witnessed that in my entire 47 years, where the hell do you live? Oz?

R200, is inured...or else an offender!

R200, London, baby. But I’ve also lived in Atlanta

I'm the average bisexual male: I'm married to an unsuspecting woman who think that our life is perfect because she doesn't know that I like random men to tear my hole to pieces while I squeal like a little girl. I love it when they breed me, because that means that I can pass all of the disgusting STDs I catch to my wife!!!

But no, I'm not a piece of shit 'cause I'm married to a woman (I married her after a 2 year engagement, during which I was in a relationship with a guy who never knew what hit him when I announced that I was leaving him to marry my long time fiancee!). Whoa! I'm such a MAN. Now, let me to to Craigslist and post dick shots and married ring shots, so that some other skeezy creep like me can come and blow my hole to smithereens...

You probably think that I'm a piece of shit and a cheater, but NO. I'm married to a woman and got kids, which means that I'm PERFECT and a REAL MAN, and fucking around with men isn't cheating because they are freaks of nature who can't get pregnant... Only, I wish I could get pregnant because, secretly, I'm a tranny who hates everyone 'cause she can't be a woman.

R203 thanks for proving gays are freaks. I'm more of a man than you'll ever be queer

WOW, R203, truly spectacular! Yep, fuck subtlety. Spray us ALLL wit’ yo big ass scattergun of hate: Biphobia, transphobia, homophobia, self-hatred, animus toward concision, wit and literary style.

Oh my, you really have a problem with that durrrty, filthy anal sex doncha!

The idiot troll in this thread is the same one from the "Why Do Straight Men Love Transgendered Women" thread. He is clearing his cookies. He's a "straight" man into tranny porn. The poor ignorant basement dweller has been trolling for days. He really hates lesbians, gays, and well women in general. Talk about mommy issues!

Bisexual men have proven they hate gay men all throughout this thread.

I'm assuming that the guys who go on about hypermasculinity and bisexuals are bottoms who enjoy being used and treated like a woman during sex? I've never been able to relate to this. I couldn't care less if a bottom is a little femme as long as he looks like a guy and has the physical attributes I prefer. I don't have any fantasies about bisexuals and couldn't care less if you're bisexual, gay or whatever as long as you are a bottom and hot I'm fine ( of course it takes much more than that for a relationship to develop) . So I've always wondered if the obsession with bisexuals and hypermasculine men that some gays seem to have is related to fantasies of being dominated and treated like a woman in bed?

R207, Nah, just that they’re cleverer, funnier and more chill :)

No one can take this seriously. This is simply online trolling.

No one's taking it seriously. We're just aware he's a virgin who's having trouble reaching climax. He's been at it for hours now. Give the lad a chance...

No, R208. It has to do with internalized homophobia, and the assumption that gay men are somehow less manly because their behaviour and identity is "feminized". These self-hating men view heterosexuality as proof of real manliness, or at least a model of masculinity that complies with the attributes that society indicates that a "real" man should possess.

The gay men who obsess about straight/bi men consider that the only valid manifestation of masculinity is adhering to traditional, rigid notions of what is acceptable in men, not realizing that they denigrate themselves by denying that being a man has many aspects, and that you don't need to be married, have children and be stereotypically aggressive and emotionally distant in order to be a man.

Brilliant question, R208 ! Probably wasted here.

HYPER-masculinity is a parody of masculinity that no one but a clueless queeny fem would take seriously.

I’m bisexual and neither a bottom nor top but masculinity is EVERYTHING to me above even looks or dick size. Dude must have some swagger. Perhaps even potentially offer a psychical challenge; and therein lies the appeal as we subtly or not so subtly vie for unspoken dominance.

Personally, I can’t fathom how any man with androphilic tendencies could value feminity in a man -- obviously that’s because being bisexual I can readily seek out the authentic versions of said qualities in a relationship with a woman

Interesting r212. These are people who have internalized the belief that gay men aren't real men because they sleep with other men which is something only women should be doing while straight and bisexual men are real men because they have sex with women. These guys just aren't comfortable with being gay. And I suppose that bisexual men are the closest thing to straight that these gay men will get.

Actually , R218 I think your own attitude towards bottoms and prescribed roles betrays an attitude which could be described as “problematic”

oops redirect to R208

What attitude do I have toward bottoms that you were able to surmise from a brief post on a gossip site that specializes in bitchery r215? If you want to know what I think then ask me but don't assume that you know anything about my personal beliefs.

I endured r157 's post to the end and of course it unintentionnally underlines why bis and the straights/gays should avoid each other like the plague. You can just see it dripping from his post, the world of the STRAIGHTS/GAYS is all about hatred and rejection, gay and straight hate bis, fags hate women, lesbians hate men, straights hate gays, gays hate straights, misogyny, misandry, everybody is a victim, hate, hate, hate, blah blah blah. And that's what different with bisexuals: we don't have those exhausting pathologies. Maybe that's why you loathe us so much.

Straight and homos systematically have that list of people or group they hate, and they're just ready to explain to you at great lenghts how those ennemies ruin their life and oppress them. You're all ready to pick up a fight and hopefully you do it with each other, because we bis need to stay away.

You start dating a gay or a straight and they expect the worst of you, because you know, you're HALF on the team of "the ennemy". Or maybe you'll get them sick with an STD. Or they realize you won't join them on the hatred of the other gender. Or maybe you're three minutes away from cheating. In any case they're already a victim, and you, a bully.

I have no team, I have no care for all those pathetic insecurities and rage. You stay away from us, we do the same, then everyone's happy! The bi pool is big enough. At this point in my life you couldn't pay me to spend a week end with a straight or a homo. Get me a bi who's civilized and actually capable of happiness.

Two closeted bis in a relationship would be funny, fucking around on eachother, giving each other STDS, while dating women on the side in the hopes of living their dream het life. Bis stay together. Leave gays alone.

R218, Bravo , General. Made me moist of eye -- should dry on my hairy inner thigh.

I will follow you anywhere. Lead on

r61, you must admit that's a very small percentage of bi men. I'm not judging them, why wouldn't you take advantage of the easier route and the greater dating pool? But let's be honest, the vast majority of bi men are in relationships with women.

R218, I have read the same post as well as many others, and it doesn't look like gays and heterosexuals hate bisexuals, while bis are wonderfully tolerant, compassionate and noble human beings. Just look at the posts that call gay people freaks of nature or defective and present heterosexual people as more evolved by merit of their supposedly unique ability to reproduce. All of these things have been posted by bisexual people. And now you have the nerve to say that bis are tolerant and kind?

By the way, that same post mentions how some gay men are more at ease with women, and some Lesbians are more at ease with men - which is true. Generalizing is always dangerous, don't you think?

I think that some people's responses to bisexuality and bisexuals on this thread, are way over the top, but you cannot expect to come to a forum where the majority of people are gay, say that there is something seriously wrong with us and that you are better just because you are bisexual are "half hetero", and get pats on the back and have the crowds cheering you on. Sorry, mate, but things don't work that way.

I think, however, that maybe reminding people that sexuality in itself isn't good or bad, and that the actions of particular individuals shouldn't condition our responses, would be the wisest approach. Then again, when you have a discussion based on 'we're more enlightened than you and you're wrong because you don't admire us', things are bound to go unwell.

Have a great time going elsewhere, though. I think that, given the prejudices shown here, neither gay nor bisexual people are ready to share the same space.

Seeing as two men or two women can't have a baby, from an evolutionary perspective yes gays and lesbians are defective. Bisexuals can reproduce and also are free to enjoy pleasure from men and women. Bisexuals are more highly evolved than straights and gays although at least straights can reproduce. The idea of a 'man' being freaked out by a vagina and calling women fish sorry you're a freak. Same goes to lesbians who are freaked out by men. Humans need to breed otherwise we would be extinct. If you don't pass on your genes in evolutionary terms you are a failure.

F AND F r223

[quote]The idiot troll in this thread is the same one from the "Why Do Straight Men Love Transgendered Women" thread. He is clearing his cookies. He's a "straight" man into tranny porn.

Ah, that makes sense. So he identifies as bisexual because he's attracted to both men and men-dressed-as-women. He's been beating his little chipolata on here all day. I wonder if he knows you can't procreate with a tranny. :(

Oh my GOD can this homophobic evolution troll be banned, please?

You have to be a little slow to think that homosexuals are unable to procreate and haven't been procreating throughout the history of our species. Being attracted to the same sex has nothing to do with the ability or desire to reproduce. I mean most of the lesbians I'm familiar with have biological children and so do many gay men.

R224 - gay people can reproduce as well. Our sexual organs don't function in a different way and we're not sterile. So, we are not defective. However, going by your judgement, people who are sterile or don't want to have children (as would be the case with some bisexual and heterosexual people), are somehow freaks of nature because they can't or won't reproduce.

Also, if homosexuality were defective from an evolutionary perspective, there wouldn't be any gay people because we would all have died (which would make you happy, I am sure). Anyway, thank you R227 for stating the obvious and reminding everyone that gay people can and do reproduce by many different means.

As for you, Bi troll, this is just tiresome. You're obviously come here to offend people you despise because we have a different opinion, when I am sure that there are dozens of other places where you could go to exchange impressions with people who will be able to understand you, or care for your opinions at all. At the moment, you're just insulting and antagonizing people for the sake of it, even though many of us haven't offended you.

If these are the sort o views you have on homosexuality, why are you in a forum created by and for gay men? Just leave and go somewhere where you can be happy and stop insulting people for sport.

Hahaha I hate trannies. The idea of fucking some tranny freak is disgusting. Also R228 exactly the 'gay gene' doesn't exist which just proves men ARE NOT born gay and women ARE NOT born lesbians. This is my whole point on how gays and lesbians are freaks. That means you must have become gay because of your issues with women and lesbians because of their issues with men. Also like I said earlier about gays calling women fish (See you have issues with women). See it all links up, thanks for proving my point.

Why are bi guys conflicted easy? Simple, because we live in an anti gay culture. Form our earliest days we are told same sex attraction is bad, opposite attraction good. Straight relationships are rewarded with total acceptance. A bi guy when with a woman can hold hands in public, be affectionate in public, be as open about their relationship as the want and no one will take any care. But you simply cannot do that with another man.

As gay man when out in public with a bf, there is always a fear we will be bashed, attacked or insulted. It's constant in our minds. It dictates how we behave in public. There was that speech by an Irish Drag Queen, who said that it is impossible to live in such a homophobic world and not be affected by it, we are all homophobic to a degree.

And so are bi men, when it comes to their same sex attraction they are as loaded with the same insecurities and fears gay men are. No matter what they say, they are, we can all put on a brave face, but living a society where we are constantly barraged with graphic heteronormative media and either passive aggressive insidious homophobia or out right anti homosexuality it does twist us in a way.

Bi guys are much more open with women, and in a way their opposite sex attractions are their " get out of jail free card". When a gay man, already dealing with anti gay crap daily from the world, has to face a partner or a man he cares about leaving him for a woman, or cheating on him for a woman, well you bi guys will never know how much that hurts, because it is not just a rejection of us a individuals but also our socially scorned sexuality.

I know it's not fair on you bi guys, but you'll never really get how worthless that makes us feel, how it cuts us right to the bone and scars us in a way you as bi guys cannot understand. Because unlike you we don't have that option to hold hands and kiss our girlfriends while at the grocery store with the same carefree attitude you do.

R230, that was a very well put response. Thank you :-)

Personally I’ve had lots of good, nurturing experiences with bi men. This thread was intended from the outset, as is explicit from the tendentious preamble onwards, to deliberately offend bisexuals and only a batshit bi-phobe would say otherwise.

r230 don't waste your breath on bi men. They are sociopaths.

People if you can’t tell that it’s the same nutcase bi-phobe trolling back and forth with his mustache-twirling bi sock puppet theres no hope for y’all

R233 How are we bisexual men sociopaths what have we ever done to you?

R228 exactly the 'gay gene doesn't exist. Which means gays and lesbians have some kind of issues which turns them gay. You are not born gay. Thank you for proving me right that you are a bunch of freaks.

A bisexual man ruined my life and will be the reason for my suicide.

R236, Actually all indications are it occurs in utero...the same for MOST bisexuals too; -- although arguably theres a greater case for childhood environmental factors for a percentage of bisexuals

R237, I told you, bitchboy, it’s only suicide if you VOLUNTARILY impale yourself on my massive tool. I’m gonna fuckin murder you!

R236, if you're not born gay, then you cannot be born bisexual, either. If homosexuality happens due to trauma or inner conflict, how do you explain bisexuality? Do bisexual people only experience traumas with half the intensity as gay men and women? What a preposterous argument! Also, heterosexual people also have issues - or are theirs legitimate because they "can reproduce"?

R236 is right. With that said, you're just tiresome. Grow up, little girl. Your whiny tantrums are becoming exhausting and you're ruining a perfectly interesting thread.

R237 What did he do. I keep hearing about how bisexual men hurt gay men, well what did they do. Details.

Kinsey 1, 2, 2, 3* : bad bisexual -- VS -- Kinsey 3*,4,5 : good bisexual

*Kinsey 3: equally split between evil and saintly

So bad evil bisexuals are the ones that prefer women. See gays have issues.

So, the Kinsey scale is 1, 2, 2, 3, 4 and 5, R242? I didn't know that some bisexuals were so twice! LOL!

We don't give a damn about bisexuals liking women. We just have our community and are kicking you out of it. Stay away and stop being annoying, pathetic fence-sitters.

More like why are gay men so conflicted, they talk shit about bi men but also have a fetish of having sex with bi men.

You chaps mind if I start posting juicy vaginas? No coin slot pussy mind, only leathery-pterodactyl-looking -piss-flaps-looking pussy

They're probably a troll, r241. Or they're like that one poster who keeps prattling on about his crippling lack of self worth and how he lives in constant fear that a bi guy will just up and leave him out of the blue to live up the het life. I guess being ditched for another man would be much less offensive than some lowly woman who couldn't possibly offer any sort of meaningful relationship other than providing the Evil Bi a means to bask in straight privilege.

[quote]More like why are gay men so conflicted, they talk shit about bi men but also have a fetish of having sex with bi men.

Most gay men don't have a fetish about bi men for the simple fact that most gay men think that bi men are just semi-closeted gay men. A fetish for straight men, yes.

247 replies so far...and for such an inconsequential group of guys!

Somebody is popular round here ;)

Sorry I, I don't pay attention to Gawker. They support extortionists

249 exactly gays are obsessed with bi guys

Fair enough. Straight men are your gods..and their het power is exercised over you through us your masters..your demi-gods

[quote]Straight men are your gods..and their het power is exercised over you through us your masters..your demi-gods

Well, gay virgins are very appealing to us but I wouldn't say you are our demi-gods, no.

Not being able to additionally experience the atavistic natural urges and exquisite tingles when watching a pair of big natural boobs bounce or the beauty of a glistening pink spread open pussy... must be like.. I dunno... being colorblind or missing one of your five senses or something. I pity you

I'll stick with gay men for the time being, thanks anyway.

R254 Exactly

Wow! The bi men on this thread are ANGRY!!!

I guess that only being drooled over by the ugly, fat and old gay men who are obsessed with hetero and bi men and love G4P, must hurt. Really hot gay men don't give a damn about you, and that stings. That's why you need to talk about tits and pussy and attack gay men, because you're all just bitter that no one actually worthy of attention likes you.

By the way, we gay men don't care about vaginas because we came out of one when we were born... Although some of you bi turds appear to have been shat by your mothers.

But do not despair. I am sure that ugly, desperate women who wouldn't be touched by a straight man with a ten foot pole, will be willing to have relationships with you, the total losers of the sexual orientation lottery who are idealized and wanted by the leftovers of both gays and straights.

I do pity you, because no one likes you and it must be painful to know that you're repulsive from head to toe. Dishonest, creepy, aggressive, twisted, ignoble, treacherous and nasty cheaters.

'Bye, losers. Good luck finding someone with a self-esteem low enough to want your horrid selves.

Bisexual orientation is widespread. Bisexual preference is limited only to sociopaths.

Is that actually true or are you just being snarky or throwing shade? I read something about sociopaths tending to be bisexual or not really having a set sexual preference but I'm not entirely sure if it's true or not. However it might explain same sex sexual intercourse in prisons.

r258, there is no evidence to prove that

"I read something about sociopaths tending to be bisexual or not really having a set sexual preference but I'm not entirely sure if it's true or not. However it might explain same sex sexual intercourse in prisons."

I don't think sociopathy has anything to do with a person's actual orientation, but you could argue that they have fewer inhibitions than most people

You girls wanna meet up and clean my wife’s pussy juice off my dick.... it’ll give you some virility

Meanwhile there is this scandinavian bodybuilder (the golden one) on youtube speaking against non-heterosexual men. Oh, I forgot to mention he is a nationalist.

You will not have any chance against nationalists, bisexual people.

R263 Bisexuals can pass for straight, you fags can't. You should be worried.

LOL at impotent gay-rage currently being projectile-vomited at Tom Daley....and all because he has the temerity to live his “authentic fabooolus self, hunty!” by publicly reasserting his bisexuality -- NOT homosexuality--BISEXUALITY! Not that we want his lame twinky ass.

Bonus. Fucking. Gift: DLB -- *THE* (longass) face of the glitter rights movement (hollywood branch) -- has even lowkey disowned ya’ll asses.Lo0o0o0o0o0L!.

D(ustin) L(oves) B(itches) too.

Hiss away!

[quote]LOL at the impotent gay virgin who keeps bumping this thread pretending his bisexual

I agree, r265

"By the way, we gay men don't care about vaginas because we came out of one when we were born... Although some of you bi turds appear to have been shat by your mothers. "

How pathetic... Another representation of mental health in our community. Sad.

R267 all fags and dykes are mentally fucked.

Yes, r268, you've made your homophobia quite clear and your trolling has long since become tiresome.

Most men want nothing to do with anything associated with undermining their masculinity or manhood. It takes a rare male to embrace anything that is viewed as less than manly. Unfortunately, gay male identity is associated with femininity, and by extension, bisexual males are suspected of being like gay males in this respect. Therefore, bisexual males tend to want to keep a distance from men who identify as gay and gay culture.

That is actually true, R270. Thank you for reminding everyone that the negative perception of femininity in our androcentric patriarchal society, is the main driver of homophobia. Being exposed to ridicule, hatred, violence and systematic rejection isn't pleasant for anyone, and many people will try to avoid it as much as they can - it's a natural response.

Than again, when you hide, it's ever more difficult to be seen and, if you are not seen, the chances of you being understood and accepted greatly decrease. This is also one of the reasons why being within the gay community and having purely homo-centered social networks is so important for many of us, because as gay people we can be ourselves in these spaces.

As for bisexual people (men in particular), I guess that it can be both scary and frustrating to be seen as half-homosexuals or latently homosexual, but then again it is their responsibility to go out into the world and explain how things are for them. Gay people can't do that.

Yeah, men are born with considerable male privilege, even if they are also a member of an oppressed group. Male privilege is one of the highest commodities in our society. However, it is fragile, and can be undermined by anything not considered "manly." Most men protect their privilege and avoid anything that threatens it.

R270 Most men don't care who you fuck what they do care about is if you are running around acting like a woman and no not because they are sexist towards women, the majority of men value femininity in WOMEN just not in men and surely a man acting like a woman is sexist towards men. Loads of gay men talk shit about men and masculinity and seem to praise femininity isn't that sexist? R271 R272 Yes patriarchy oppression sexism homophobia everywhere. Please get a fucking grip.

bisexual men are superior to faggots your all a bunch of freaks

If you admit that patriarchy is everywhere, r273, then how can talking shit about masculinity be sexist? Surely it's obvious that gay men talk shit about masculinity and praise femininity precisely because society already expects men to be masculine and when they aren't they are singled out and for a very long time were dismissed as not being "real men" because of it. If you're trying to break down these ingrained attitudes in a patriarchy then one obvious way is to praise that for which we have been routinely mocked (ie femininity) and dismiss that for which we have routinely been found lacking (ie masculinity).

R275 i was being sarcastic, i was mocking you and the others. femininity is mocked in men not women. Women are praised for being feminine and masculinity is praised in men not in women. Men should be masculine and women feminine. I don't want to fuck some feminine man and I don't want to fuck some butch woman. I appreciate masculinity in men and femininity in women.

All the bisexual men I have known are cheaters and liars. They are all psychopaths who don't care who they hurt.

Bisexual men are fucking hot and better in bed even if they are fucked up.

[quote]i was mocking you and the others.

Well, you were trying to, dear; but the point of my post is that unless you have an IQ less than 10, the utter stupidity of a statement like "Men should be masculine and women feminine" coming from an apparent gay/bi man should be patently obvious. But, as they say, ignorance is bliss!

Yes the statement @ r273 is idiotic. Demeaning unmasculine/feminine men is inherently sexist/misogynistic as it implies that feminity is a negative attribute, that to be feminine is to be weak and lesser.

[quote]Demeaning unmasculine/feminine men is inherently sexist/misogynistic as it implies that feminity is a negative attribute, that to be feminine is to be weak and lesser.

I think that's far too complex a thought for r273 to process, unfortunately.

R280 it is a negative attribute in MEN not in women. Even women don't find feminine men attractive are they being sexist. According to you women who aren't turned on by feminine men and want a real man are also sexist.

[quote]According to you women who aren't turned on by feminine men and want a real man are also sexist.

Good God, are you really this stupid!?

[quote]Even women don't find feminine men attractive are they being sexist.

Err, have you ever actually met or spoke to any women, dear?

R283 You clearly haven't if you think women like feminine men. Take Emma Watson banging on about feminism and saying men don't need to be studs and then who does she go out with a rugby playing masculine stud. Even women who say they don't care, do really. If you think women prefer feminine men over masculine men you are seriously deluded.

Also R283 many women don't like bisexual men because they consider them to not be masculine enough because they fucked other men, so are those women sexist as well. You are seriously retarded if you think women like feminine men.

Nowadays the masculine is complimented and preferred in BOTH men and women. Straight women who are tough and manly have never been in more demand.

I tremble for the delicate, feminine touch. If it weren't for Filippinos, this country would be as coarse and vulgar as Russia.,

Bisexual men should stay away from gay men. Fucked up the lot of them.

[quote]Also r283 many women don't like bisexual men because they consider them to not be masculine enough because they fucked other men, so are those women sexist as well. You are seriously retarded if you think women like feminine men.

I'm sorry, hun, but your view of what women think and feel is hilarious. Why not stop worrying about femininity and masculinity and actually go and talk to a few women, find out what they're really like. And don't worry so much about them not finding feminine men attractive. You've been grossly misinformed.

Yeah, Ruby Rose is celebrated as a stud who kicks butt. There is no equivalent of an effeminate man that is widely celebrated in that way.

[quote]I think that's far too complex a thought for [R273] to process, unfortunately.

It would appear so, r281. They seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that fem women are only appraised for conforming to the rigid gender roles, but are by and large belittled for it. Have they ever ventured outside of their mother's basement, I wonder?

R290 AND R288 HAHA I love how you bunch of faggots are now experts on women. The majority of women find feminine men unattractive. You have been hanging out with too many fag hags. Also Ruby Rose is not attractive. If you think women don't like feminine men how do you explain them reading and watching 50 shades of grey in their millions. It is you two who are deluded you obviously spend way too much time in the gay community rather than around most normal men and women. Just because you live in a ultra liberal area full of white people who go for brunch and surround yourself with fag hags, don't think the rest of the world is the same. You are deluded if you think it is.

R288, you appear to be deliberately ignoring that the width and depth of human experience go far beyond the rigidly imposed notions of masculinity and femininity that our patriarchal society upholds as valid. Just because you prefer these traits and identify with them, it doesn't mean that they are the only acceptable ones to be had by every man. It just means that they are the best and most adequate traits for you, and men who think and experience life as you do. As I bisexual man who had, I am sure, experienced rejection from both heterosexual and homosexual people, you ought to be more away of the importance and wealth offered by diversity, don't you think?

Moreover, many among us gay men have lots of female friends, and know what they think and want in men. Some of them like very masculine men, some of them like feminine men and some of them like a million other things. Women experience femininity in very particular ways that sometimes clash with what other women think, do, want or need, and that's OK. The same is applicable to men, as you can imagine. Reducing everyone to the same two rigid roles is absurd.

However, since you appear to be hell bent on insulting, mocking and denigrating gay men, I guess that you are one of the two or three trolls who have taken over this thread.

As for the people who were asking everyone to give example of why gay men hate bisexuals, see no further than the thread below: The OP's boyfriend lied to him about being bisexual and eventually cheated on him with lots of women (which he denied all the time, even though it had happened often). Then, he didn't even bother to properly break up with the OP, and expected him to take the hint.

So yes, many gay men have had awful experiences with bisexuals. Does that mean that all bisexual men are awful? Of course not. But it's telling that so many people have horror stories about bisexuals, don't you think?

r291 I am an expert on women because I just so happen to be one. One does not have to be a women to understand how pervasive misogyny is. However, you have proven yourself to be a complete and utter idiot all over this thread and have no authority to dictate what women may or may not find attractive.

R293, don't waste your time on him. He is obviously deeply troubled about his same sex attraction and wants to release his anger and frustration on everyone he considers to be inferior, as a means to purge the shame he experiences due to his bisexuality.

Anyway, thanks for your participation. It's nice to have a wider perspective and have everyone chime in in this discussion. :-)

R292, R293, R294 I never claimed to speak for all women. I am saying the majority of women find masculine men attractive, if you think the majority of women find feminine men attractive you are deluded. Like I said just look at how successful 50 shades of grey was. I will ask again are those women who prefer masculine men sexist? You seem to keep cherry picking the points I have made and ignore others I have made. Also many women do not see the world as some horrible misogynistic patriarchal place with oppression everywhere, Margaret Thatcher was the first female prime minister of Britain and the most powerful women of the 20th century as well as one of the most powerful women in human history, however she was not a feminist in fact she hated feminist and she didn't go around bashing men all the time ore crying misogyny every 5 seconds. If you want real misogyny and homophobia go to Saudi Arabia, if you want real oppression go to North Korea.

[quote]I never claimed to speak for all women. I am saying the majority of women...

THIS DUDE IS COMEDY GOLD! He then goes on to tell an actual woman that she's deluded because she has a different (ie more informed) view of what women actually think and feel than he does.

[quote]Margaret Thatcher was the first female prime minister of Britain

She was the ONLY female Prime Minister of Great Britain. And of course she hated feminism; she physically changed her own voice to sound less feminine because she knew that being feminine would be seen as a weakness. That's why she ended up talking like a Dalek, dear. Not the best example of how the world is so equal and free of discrimination.

R295, Margaret Thatcher was a radical reactionary regarding social issues, and a fanatical neoliberal technocrat who is directly responsible for the environmental and economic catastrophes that we're living, and shall live in the next decade. However, she was also a hypocrite who benefited from the freedoms and opportunities that feminism afforded her, in spite of the fact that she rejected it. Do you think that if the brutally conservative and androcentric social order that she favoured would have ruled society, she would have ever had the opportunity to become the Prime Minister? She was an execrable woman who destroyed the UK's once proud industry, plunged the working classes into abject poverty, created a tenuous, every-struggling and pretentious middle class. She might have been extremely powerful, but she was also an evil person who sacrificed millions of lives in her quest for political and economic dogmatism. No one should ever put her as an example for anything.

Regarding your point about cherry picking what you've said, that is impossible, because your arguments are centered around gay=bad, masculine=straight/bisexual=good, gender conformity and fags are not as good as you because they are not attracted to women, so they are inferior and don't know anything at all about important matters. Your arguments are pure, unadulterated bigotry, and that's the end of it. No one is cherry picking: you are showing yourself to be a prejudiced individual, and that is all.

Also, as I have told you before, there are degree to everything. Just because women are not forced to wear burqas in the West (at least for now), and gay men are not thrown off buildings or hanged, it doesn't mean that there isn't oppression. That's why laws protecting women and gay men have had to be re-enacted and have to be constantly expanded and reinforced - because there is discrimination. The fact that people do not have to endure extreme behaviours doesn't mean that these things do not happen, and are not a reality that affects people's lives.

Again, you are free to think and experience what you want, and if it makes you happy and doesn't harm anyone, all the better for you. However, you don't have a right to try to impose a single view on others in your quest to prove that you are better than homosexuals. Also, women like lots of things and yes, many women like very masculine men. Some of them like other things, and some of them have tastes that change depending on both context and the people they are dealing with. So what? It's good that you have experience with women and are happy about it. However, other people know women at other levels and can also share their insights, because we know them as friends and yes, we have shared things with each other that we wouldn't tell our partners, as friends often do.

So good for you on feeling happy about your masculinity and liking women who feel a strong attraction to masculine men. Good for you (sort of), on admiring a hypocritical, dishonest, dogmatic and execrable woman like Margaret Thatcher and, quite obviously, spousing right wing ideas yourself. However, I cannot congratulate you for using these ideas to denigrate others, and try to present them as inferior in any way.

People come in all shapes and sizes and it's downright nasty to deny their inherent worth just because they don't comply with what makes you happy, don't you think? It would be just as horrible as if I called you a liar and a cheat who doesn't know anything about gay men just because I experience life differently than you do.

Contrary to popular opinion Margaret Thatcher was actually very feminine. Many people who met her said she was very feminine and charming. She even used the fact she was a woman to appeal to housewives by saying if you know how to run a household you know how to run a country. Also again if you think the MAJORITY of women find feminine men attractive you are deluded. And AGAIN seeing as you seem to think that disliking feminine men is misogynistic and sexist are women who find feminine men unattractive and prefer masculine men also sexist and misogynistic? You keep cherry picking my points and failing to answer them so maybe I should ask TWICE if disliking feminine men is sexist and misogynistic are women who dislike feminine men and prefer masculine also sexist and misogynistic?

[quote]Many people who met her said she was very feminine and charming.

Of course they did, dear!

[quote]THIS DUDE IS COMEDY GOLD! He then goes on to tell an actual woman that she's deluded because she has a different (ie more informed) view of what women actually think and feel than he does.

LOL tell me about it, r296. His lack of self-awareness only proves my point. Femininity is so despised that women aren't even qualified to talk about what they may or may not like!

r298 Yes, women being unattracted to fem men on the basis that masculinity is superior (and anything deviating from it is inherently weak and inferior) is born from internalized misogyny.

And using 50 Shades of Shit to gauge what most women look for in a man? Please.

R299 AGAIN YOU IGNORE MY MAIN POINT. If disliking feminine men is sexist and misogynistic then are women who prefer masculine men over feminine men also sexist and misogynistic??????????? and yes Margaret Thatcher was actually quite feminine

*sigh* Women can be sexist against other women and they can be homophobic against both men and women. So yes, they can be misogynistic. We should not forget that women are crucial in transmitting to their children the notion of "adequate" gender roles, race relations and class prejudice so yes, if a woman is prejudiced, her views will have an impact on her children's beliefs and behaviour - even more so than the beliefs of their husbands.

Does that mean that women who don't find feminine men attractive are misogynistic and homophobic? Well, if they dislike feminine men because they think that men who are effeminate are disgusting and gays are sick and evil pedophiles, then yes. If it's only a matter of personal preference that doesn't stem from prejudice, then no. Again, there are a thousand things that women can find attractive, and citing a widely panned book in which a psychologically unbalanced woman wrote about her fantasies of being raped, mistreated and abused by a psychopathic man who changes for her and only her, is not a good guide about what women want. The book was successful because it was miss-sold as an example of feminine sexual liberation, but many people didn't even bother to finish reading it because it was so bad.

Those '50 Shades' books are the domestically abused version of Cinderella, and they were shamelessly plagiarized from a slightly less awful collection of books about female abuse, princess-in-distress and 'if he loves you, he will change for you' fantasies. proof of that is that literary critics hate these books, the S&M community hates them, lovers of literature hate them and women who are educated and balanced, hate them as well. Just go to any forums if you don't believe me.

The only women who consider those books awesome, are the same ones who think that Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton are legitimate celebrities and feminist icons who have changed history. The rest, are unhappy about their lack of quality, demeaning representation of male/female relationships and normalization of stalking, sexual violence and abuse.

So there you have it, your answer. Happy now?

Also, you seem obsessed with the idea of insulting anyone who doesn't squarely fit into your idea of what men and women are supposed to be and behave like. I'm glad that you are happy with your life, but there is no need to try to offend anyone. You have your own experiences and I'm sure that they are great, but other people can offer a wider perspective and there is no need to mock them at all, just for the sake of it.

Thank you.

R300 HAHAHAHA are you listening to yourself so if a woman dares to prefer masculine men to feminine men she actually hates herself. So basically what you are saying is no one is allowed to prefer masculine men surely that is sexist against men. If you despise masculinity so much why don't you do a bruce jenner and chop off your cock. R302 you are the one who has the issue with what most men and women want and behave like, most men are proud of their masculinity and most women are proud of their femininity. Also are butch lesbians also misogynists and surely aren't effeminate men guilty of misandry?

I can't believe this has to be explained to a dude who claims to be bisexual, but then he does appear to be a fan of that paragon of femininity Margaret Thatcher, so what does that tell you?

In the context of a patriarchy where women are treated as less than men purely because they are women and gay men have traditionally been treated as less than men because they're seen as falling short of the masculine ideal (even so-called "straight-acting" gay/bi men are less than men purely because they aren't 100% straight) , then the value system of that kind of society will of course place masculinity at the top, femininity beneath and homosexuality/bisexuality at the bottom. The attitudes of that system are, by their very definition, misogynistic and homophobic. Derision of feminine men in that context is, by it's very definition, homophobic and misogynistic. A woman not being attracted to feminine men in that context is neither misogynistic or homophobic.

Is that simple enough for you, my love?

You're still talking to a woman, r303.

I never said that ~no one is allowed~ to find masculinity attractive. Some are more naturally inclined to, some are not. Different folks, different strokes, as they say. However, that only goes so far when you take cultural/social conditioning into consideration.

Excellent post, r302! A shame that it's wasted on this sad little troll.

R305 so in reality everyone hates masculinity and everyone loves femininity its just are culture and social conditioning that makes us prefer masculinity. Seriously are you listening to yourself. And AGAIN YOU MISS OUT SOME OF MY POINTS. So are butch lesbians sexist? and also AGAIN are effeminate men guilty of misandry. If you think masculine men are all raging misogynists surely feminine women and feminine men are all raging with misandry and hate men.

How old are you, r306?

I'm assuming you're quite young and inexperienced?

R305 so in reality everyone hates masculinity and everyone loves femininity its just are culture and social conditioning that makes us prefer masculinity. Seriously are you listening to yourself. And AGAIN YOU MISS OUT SOME OF MY POINTS. So are butch lesbians sexist? and also AGAIN are effeminate men guilty of misandry. If you think masculine men are all raging misogynists surely feminine women and feminine men are all raging with misandry and hate men.

How old are you, r308?

I'm assuming you're quite young and inexperienced?

Impeccably put, R304 and R305.

Sadly, we are wasting our efforts on this individual(s), because there appear to be two or three of them who keep making highly offensive comments just for the sake of riling people up. it's best if we all leave them to their own devices, because they don't care about engaging anyone in a real discussion: they just want to have the pleasure of creating tension and conflict.

Thank you for your great contributions anyway. :-)

My oh my are you tedious, r306.

R306 shouldn't be in a high school classroom right now?

Bi dudes are so hot, especially black and Latin ones.

Interesting and timely topic topic personally since i'v been dating a bi guy the last couple of months. It can be a complicated issue. When those close to you have always known you as str8 ( or just made the assumption that you were) and your previous relationships have always been with the opposite sex it can be confusing for all involved. We're just reaching the point two months in he's going to have start introducing me as his bf. Will be interesting to see how it goes. He's had sex with a couple of other dudes before but i'm the first he's gotten seriously involved with. I've decided my best approach is to keep an open mind about the whole thing and see where it leads us. I'm sure there will be interesting things ahead since he is a true bi and not a closeted gay. It's oddly hot actually hearing about some his opposite sex experiences and likes. Definately far different than anyone i've dated before.

I like bi dudes because they tend to be more masculine and don't think they have to adopt some effeminate subculture to bone dudes.

Good pussy eating skills translate into being a great rimmer. Licks it for 20 minutes as a go. Those women trained my man well

if a biguy dumps you, it may not be because he's conflicted or homophobic maybe he's not that into you.

I have yet to see my bf licking some clit but i think that will be hot to watch. The challage will be finding a kinky call who's cool being watched BF is totally on board with the idea. He seems quite proud of skills down there

Men don't want be associated with anything perceived as unmanly, especially effeminate men.

gay men want to fuck bi men yet hate on them

Generalisations are annoying.

[quote]

He generalised

Because they don't want to be associated with male effeminates

I would like to know where the anger against bisexuals stem from.

Do you people want bisexuals to be stereotypically gay or something like that?

Many bisexuals will be thrown out of the 'straight club' if they ever express or show their gay feelings: no family gatherings, no neighborhood barbecues, no golf dates with the guys, etc. Their acceptance in the straight world is paramount to their mental and emotional stability (ego, self-worth, etc all play a major part.), and if they're getting cock on the side, why rock the boat? I don't agree with this scenario, but I think it applies to most bisexual men.

I've still never heard of a "bisexual" man, involved with a man, who's cheating on him with women.

All the "bisexual" men I've met, or heard of, have been men in relationships with women, and cheat on them with men.

r326 My friend was involved with a guy for twenty years who cheated on him with several women. He even left him for one of them at one point. So yes, it does happen.

With a bisexual man now for almost a year and the most drama free relationship either of us has had. He's had to go through a coming out process as it progressed but that proved less a concern than i originally had about it. I was always the skeptical one it could ever work but so far i've been proven wrong. Fortunate i expect in the just kinda of man he is. Not a game player in the least.

And bisexual men complain about gay men being drama queens, everything is a drama.

Why don't most of you guys understand the difference between behavior and orientation? You can fuck 1000 women and no men and still be homosexual. Fucking women does not make you bisexual. It makes you a liar.

bump

bisexual men are like gawker

they don't exist

Bisexuality in men is a mental illness.

Bump

Compared with gay men and lesbians, bisexuals have a different perspective on their sexual orientation and a distinct set of experiences, according to a 2013 Pew Research Center survey of nearly 1,200 lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender adults. Bisexuals are much less likely than gay men and lesbians to say that their sexual orientation is an important part of who they are. Only 20% of bisexuals say being bisexual is extremely or very important to their overall identity. The shares of gay men (48%) and lesbians (50%) who say the same about their sexual orientations are much higher. (Due to the small number of transgender adults in the survey, it’s not possible to break out their responses. However, they are included in the total LGBT shares reported here.)

Bisexuals are also much less likely than gay men or lesbians to have “come out” to the important people in their life. Only 28% of bisexuals say all or most of the important people in their life know they are bisexual. By comparison, 77% of gay men and 71% of lesbians say the important people in their life know about their sexual orientation.

Relatively few bisexuals report that they have experienced discrimination because of their sexual orientation. When we asked about six specific types of incidents – ranging from being subjected to slurs and jokes (the most common experience among all LGBT respondents) to being treated unfairly by an employer (the least common), bisexuals were significantly less likely than gay men or lesbians to have experienced most of them.

[quote]Are we gays so biphobic as many pretend that we are?

I am not "biphobic." I am "bi-sensible." I have been fucked over twice by 'bi's. May they all rot in Bischwitz.

R336 I am gay and I refuse to date bigoted idiots like you. People who refuse to date bi guys usually have larger issues and insecurities about themselves that you should run far away from as fast as you can.

R333, hypocritical much? The same thing was said about us gays and lesbians up until the 1970s and Fundies in the USA still claim this BS about everyone that's not heterosexual.

R43 so you want people who are bisexual to go into the closet or pretend to be "straight" or "gay"? LMAO Some of the worst homophobia I have ever experienced came from gay men, not bisexual men.

R337, You're the one bumping up all these bi threads? Get a life, honey.

Listen

R339 ???

R339 I tried playing the video but I could not hear any sound.

[quote] Becauses they see a stigmata about being gay

Probably because the thread is 5 years old, R341. You've been Bump Bitched. Isn't it great?

If you don't like it, write the sysadmin at Mediapolis, and tell them that bumping threads has several negative effects on the site and on users. Ask Mediapolis to lock all threads after a short period of inactivity, such as one month, so bump bitches can't use old threads to generate karma for their sockpuppets; and so you don't have to put up with dead or trojaned links and out-of-date news.

In my experience bisexual men are not conflicted or homophobic, they are low key, super chill, and real. The most homophobic or anti-gay/anti-LGB people I have met were trans people and then other gay men-not always queenie guys either.

[quote]r2 Becauses they see a stigmata about being gay

[quote]r4 Oh, DEAR!

[quote]In my experience bisexual men are not conflicted or homophobic, they are low key, super chill, and real. The most homophobic or anti-gay/anti-LGB people I have met were trans people and then other gay men-not always queenie guys either.

Like this site but, it’s hard to determine who posts here.

R333 funny that's what heterosexuals and Trans people said about gay people for decades! Look it up, Christine Jorgensen the first transwoman was super homophobic.