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Tibby Schlegel from Howards End: Gay or Straight?

Present evidence from either the film and/or the book to support your position (or his, so to speak).

by Maurice Hallreply 7412/23/2015

He's British, so my gaydar is blocked. But I absolutely love you for asking this question, OP.

by Maurice Hallreply 111/27/2010

Thanks, R1. Given that you love me for asking this question, I wish I could start dating you. We could make great reading together.

by Maurice Hallreply 211/27/2010

He was definitely a Foodosexual:


"Ah, there's Martlett with the Apple Charlotte!"

"Is Cook doing the Mackeral the way Tibby likes it? I know his whole day is spoiled if his breakfast isn't right."

by Maurice Hallreply 311/27/2010

Reading together? OP is Leonard Bast to r1's Helen - how sweet. Watch out for those fatal bookshelves!

by Maurice Hallreply 411/27/2010

Leonrad's the one who leaves his umbrella at the girls' house, right? But which one is Tibby?

by Maurice Hallreply 511/27/2010

"But which one is Tibby?"

He's the Schlegel sisters' brother.

And, yes, I've been the Leonard to Helen too many times as well as the Helen to Paul.

by Maurice Hallreply 611/27/2010

Now you sound like Ruth Wilcox, OP - too apt to brood! You just can't win you poor dear. Are you thinking about your house a great deal? Shall I be your Margaret?

by Maurice Hallreply 711/27/2010

"Shall I be your Margaret?"

Hmmm. A question regarding Ruth and Margaret brings up swords and canes, love of a cozy home in a place that's not the country but certainly not the town, butch housekeepers who mysteriously never married, and impromptu, yet thwarted trips, away from the company of men. That is an entirely different thread, I believe.

by Maurice Hallreply 811/27/2010

Let's get into it, r8 - meanwhile, have a scone that Tibby hasn't yet consumed!!!

by Maurice Hallreply 911/27/2010

With those two sisters he'd have to be.

by Maurice Hallreply 1011/27/2010

This thread is one of the reasons I still bother coming here. A tiny beacon in the vast darkness of stupidity that is the normal Dl.

by Maurice Hallreply 1111/27/2010

earrings, caftans, fraus, and freepers!!%0D Oh my!!

by Maurice Hallreply 1211/27/2010

I haven't read the book, but based on the movie I always thought he was gay. Wishful thinking perhaps as I thought the actor that played him was awfully cute.

by Maurice Hallreply 1311/27/2010

First time I saw Howards End, I actually thought River Phoenix was playing Tibby. I thought it was genius career movie to go from playing a homeless narcoleptic rent boy in Portland to an Oxford educated Edwardian glutton. Alas!

by Maurice Hallreply 1411/28/2010

Maybe Tibby grew up to be Monty in Withnail & I? Stranger things have happened.

by Maurice Hallreply 1511/28/2010

Heart-ing OP heaps too. Margaret is one of my favorite characters - pre-existential, exhibiting that we cannot live this life without contradiction, no matter how hard we try and how wonderful we are.

Tibby was likely a GUG: Gay Until Graduation. See Brideshead Revisited or Maurice for the composite story.

by Maurice Hallreply 1611/28/2010

True, r16, but I would definitely say that Forster implies that Tibby and the Schlegels are sort of "the end of the family line," at least in terms of traditional upper class European/British inheritance. The inheritors at the end are the non-traditional family of the Schlegel sisters and Leonard's "posthumous" baby. It's implied that Tibby is unlikely to produce heirs or have a career or even a wife; he has no interest in it.

gay, gay, gay, even after graduation imho.

by Maurice Hallreply 1711/28/2010

Do we bow or cut them dead?

by Maurice Hallreply 1811/28/2010

Who goes there? Saxon or Celt?

by Maurice Hallreply 1911/28/2010

I took you for Ruth Wilcox! You have her way of walking.... round the house....

by Maurice Hallreply 2002/01/2011

He probably was gay but i doubt he ever acted on it. He was very smothered by the two sisters so was probably never out of their sight for any length of time i do agree he was cute. it occurs to me he might have been suduced by one of the servants but lets hope he wasn't blavkmailed.

by Maurice Hallreply 2102/01/2011

During the scene when Charles nearly rams him into the bookcase in order to extract the name of Helen's seducer, Tibby looks like he wouldn't mind a bit of extraction himself.

by Maurice Hallreply 2202/01/2011

Do you think Tibby ever went off to a remote part of the Empire and engaged in the love that daren't speak its name?

by Maurice Hallreply 2308/12/2011

Tibby used to hang out with Anthony Blanche. 'Nough said?

by Maurice Hallreply 2408/12/2011

'Allo 'enry! Fancy seein you 'ere.

by Maurice Hallreply 2508/12/2011

I didn't know Leonard Bast was played by the son of Prunella Scales, who played Aunt Julia in the film and played Sybil Fawlty in "Fawlty Towers."

by Maurice Hallreply 2608/12/2011

I imagine poor Tibby would be, in a few years, lying dead in a field in France or on a beach in Turkey.%0D %0D Hopefully, he had the chance to lose his virginity to some brooding but handsome poet-soldier.

by Maurice Hallreply 2708/12/2011

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.

by Maurice Hallreply 2808/12/2011

What was the message of Howards End? That the rich kill the poor in many ways? That humanism ends up in societal ostracism? That Emma Thompson will never be fabulously rich?

by Maurice Hallreply 2908/12/2011

"Only connect . . ."

He spelled it out for you.

by Maurice Hallreply 3008/12/2011

Lah-ti-dah...a layyydy!

by Maurice Hallreply 3108/12/2011

What is it? What's wrong? Is Tibby ill?!?!?!?!

by Maurice Hallreply 3208/12/2011

There are so many unattached and pretty young men in Victorian lit who I presume are gay. %0D %0D I'm reading Austen's Persuasian right now and wondering about William Elliot, the presumptive and ne'er do well heir.

by Maurice Hallreply 3308/12/2011

Ello Enry!

by Maurice Hallreply 3408/12/2011

The actor that played Tibby didn't have much of a career. I wonder why?

by Maurice Hallreply 3508/13/2011

I thought the actor who played Tibby was doing an imitation of a young Jeremy Irons.

by Maurice Hallreply 3608/13/2011

r24 Savoring the 26 flavors of Chartreuse as it rolls down the tongue.

by Maurice Hallreply 3708/13/2011

EM Forster was an uncanny prophet. Look at what happens when passionate people like Leonard Bast are deprived oppurtunities by the Henry Wilcox types for over 100 years - they riot on the streets on London. That passion has not been given an outlet, so it goes to violence.

by Maurice Hallreply 3808/13/2011

It's the Jackie Basts, not the Leonard Basts who are rioting.

by Maurice Hallreply 3908/13/2011

I'm saying that it takes 100 years for a Leonard to turn into a Jackie, r39.

by Maurice Hallreply 4008/13/2011

Everybody is so happy and serene at Howards End after Leonard Bast is killed. Is that the English solution? Kill the aspiring working class and everything will be fine? I assume Jackie Bast goes back to turning tricks, which worked out well for her before.

by Maurice Hallreply 4108/13/2011

What about Freddy the hot younger brother in A Room With a View? Was he gay, too? Or just played like that by young Rupert Graves.

by Maurice Hallreply 4208/13/2011

[quote]EM Forster was an uncanny prophet. Look at what happens when passionate people like Leonard Bast are deprived oppurtunities by the Henry Wilcox types for over 100 years - they riot on the streets on London. That passion has not been given an outlet, so it goes to violence.

I don't follow. Leonard was not a violent man. And his son inherits Howards End, so Forster was hopeful about a breakdown of class barriers.

by Maurice Hallreply 4308/13/2011

But what about Jackie? The lower class woman will have to return to a life of prostitution. Any children she bears will be ostracized.

by Maurice Hallreply 4408/13/2011

"There is certainly no rest for us on the earth. But there is happiness, and as Margaret descended the mound on her lover's cock she felt that she was having her share." -- Chapter 26.

by Maurice Hallreply 4508/23/2011

What?!?! R45, you've provided a line from Chapter 26 of what book? Sounds like "Lady Chatterley's Lover." Certainly no Schlegel woman would be so disposed. I'm not sure Tibby wouldn't be though.

by Maurice Hallreply 4608/23/2011

Coincidentally, I have just read A Room With A View. %0D %0D Can anyone familiar with it explain the scene in which Freddy, Reverend Beebe and George Emerson suddenly go skinny-dipping in the family pond? Is their sudden impulse supposed to be shockingly modern for the times? Is that all there is to it? Is Beebe gay? Freddy?%0D %0D And is Miss Lavish, the lady authoress, a lesbian? And for that matter, are we to assume that Cecil, Lucy's fiance, is gay and that's why he is so hostile towards Lucy?%0D %0D

by Maurice Hallreply 4708/24/2011

I never really thought about it but Tibby probably is a self-portrait of the author as a young gay smothered by female relatives. I don't know why he couldn't have had a sex life. He might have traded suck jobs with one of the footmen or something.

by Maurice Hallreply 4808/24/2011

You are pleased about Ba-beh, aren't you?

by Maurice Hallreply 4908/24/2011

Does Tibby's taste include both snails and mackeral.

by Maurice Hallreply 5008/28/2011

"Why didn't you make that young man welcome, Tibby? You must do the host a little, you know. You could've coaxed him into stopping... instead of letting him be swamped by screaming women."

by Maurice Hallreply 5110/15/2011

What's the verdict?

by Maurice Hallreply 5208/26/2012

I wonder if he might have gone the way R27 suggested, or perhaps survived to be invited out to Kent to attend a couple parties at Philip Sassoon's Port Lympne (where he might space himself apart at a suitable distance from the other Lytton Strachey-thin wallflowers against the murals in the exotic Painted Room), or perhaps he tiled away for decades, fussing for a couple decades over an ambitious cataloguing project for the National Portrait Gallery.

by Maurice Hallreply 5308/26/2012

Yes, the teeth of a pig.

by Maurice Hallreply 5408/26/2012

Howards End 2: Tibby Goes to War and Dies from Malnourishment

by Maurice Hallreply 5509/22/2013

It's been a while since I read those books, but the only one I can think of that doesn't have a young man raised in a household of women is Passage to India. Again, it's been more than 20 years, so I'm probably wrong.

by Maurice Hallreply 5609/22/2013

I also love you OP.

As for Tibby? Probably gay. He must do the host a little.

by Maurice Hallreply 5709/23/2013

What would have happened to the half German, half English Schlegals during the First World War?

by Maurice Hallreply 5809/23/2013

I just watched "Howards End" for the first time in 22 years and I thought it was lovely. I'm so happy that it was nominated for 9 Oscars (and won 3 of them), but I wonder if some of the fine acting that didn't get nominated should have been? Emma won, of course, and Vanessa was nominated, but what about Helena, Anthony, and Samuel West, who did such a nice job as the doomed Mr. Bast?

In answer to OP's question, I do think Tibby was very much into the gentlemen. Adrian Ross Magenty had such a cute young bum (displayed in a deleted scene from Maurice).

by Maurice Hallreply 5907/26/2014

{quote]What would have happened to the half German, half English Schlegals during the First World War?

They would have been ostracized by some people (mostly the conservative types), but probably very few of those were in their progressive intellectual wealthy circle. Otherwise, not much.

p. s.-- "S C H L E G [bold]E[/bold] L S"

by Maurice Hallreply 6007/26/2014

[quote]And for that matter, are we to assume that Cecil, Lucy's fiance, is gay and that's why he is so hostile towards Lucy?

R47 I agree with you the Cecil may be gay. In fact you get that feeling in the movie version as well.

by Maurice Hallreply 6107/26/2014

Regarding the other EM Forster novel A Passage to India, and its counterpart movie, did anybody else sense a gay subtext between Dr Aziz and Fielding?

by Maurice Hallreply 6210/04/2015

R62, I, myself, did not.

by Maurice Hallreply 6312/21/2015

I agree with the post which stated that it's so damn hard to tell with British men. I've seen the film at least 30 times, and I certainly THINK he is gay, but then again...British academic upper middle class gentleman ??? He may just not be terribly sexual.

by Maurice Hallreply 6412/21/2015

It's EM Forster R62, so, yes.

by Maurice Hallreply 6512/22/2015

"I'm afraid that in nine cases out of ten Nature pulls one way and human nature another."

by Maurice Hallreply 6612/22/2015

Christmas shopping! Margaret is first on Mrs. Wilcox's list. Hooray! I still think this is Thompson's best film.

by Maurice Hallreply 6712/22/2015

Is the actor who played Tibby gay?

by Maurice Hallreply 6812/22/2015

It is ET's best film, she's glorious in it.

by Maurice Hallreply 6912/23/2015

[quote] It is ET's best film

She phoned it in.

by Maurice Hallreply 7012/23/2015

I always feel a tinge of sadness when I see or read tales of life before WWI. It's just so likely that all those strapping men will end up rotting in the charnel house of the trenches. England was so eager to send them to the meat grinder. J.R.R.Tolkien famously wrote that only one of his friends survived the war.

And then, of course, there's the Depression and Hitler to look forward to.

Freddy Eynsford Hill, I'm sure, was an early casualty. And I wouldn't be surprised if even Professor Higgins and Colonel Pickering ended up in the ooze.

As for the Shlemiels, it's very possible they could have been interned as "enemy aliens." Many were.

But I do love the novels, and films, of E.M.Forster. Such a civilized man, with a grace of expression never seen today. (Can you imagine these characters enmeshed in their i-Phones?)

by Maurice Hallreply 7112/23/2015


I wrote "Shlegels," and computer check wrote "Shlemiels."

(Although, when you think of it, perhaps not entirely inapt.)

Also wanted to mention appreciation for Samuel West. There's a film he made around that time, "Reunion,"(1989) about the non-sexual, but intense friendship between two young men, in 1933 Germany, which is heartrending. Script is by Harold Pinter. Well worth seeing, though it was only available on VHS and laser.

by Maurice Hallreply 7212/23/2015

[quote] As for the Shlemiels

I think they made it to the intro of Laverne & Shirley, John Spike.

by Maurice Hallreply 7312/23/2015

Well, Margaret wouldn't have had to worry about losing Henry to the war considering he had collapsed into feebleness by the end of the novel. I wonder if Henry's murderous son would have been conscripted from prison? Surely, his daughter's new husband would have been sent as well as his other callow son who led on Meg's sister.

by Maurice Hallreply 7412/23/2015
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