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Desperately Seeking Susan [1985]

The quintessential NYC 80's film?

St. Marks Place, Danceteria...

And the cast!

Rosanna Arquette (never better)

Madonna (should have stopped after this film)

Aidan Quinn (gorgeous)

Mark Blum (still good looking)

Robert Joy

Laurie Metcalf (pretty much unknown at the time)

Will Patton

Steven Wright (the comedian) t John Turturro (also unknown) t Anne Carlisle (of Liquid Sky fame)

Rockets Redglare

Annie Golden t Richard Edson (was in Stranger Than Paradise and the band KONK)

Ann Magnuson

John Lurie

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 23203/13/2015

I'll never forget that naked shot of Arquette through the fish tank. She looked just like a Barbie doll.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 108/31/2010

You forgot "Into the Groove."

The best dance song of the 80s according to Billboard.

Sorry Pete.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 208/31/2010

One of my favorite movies of all time. I must have seen it a dozen times when it came out.

Certainly captured the downtown groove of the mid 80s perfectly.

And yes, "Into the Groove" is probably the quintessential dance song of the period.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 308/31/2010

Ann Magnuson: Susan! We all thought you were dead!

Susan: Nah. I was just in New Jersey

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 408/31/2010

I once saw a double bill of this and "After Hours" 80's heaven

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 508/31/2010

"Then take a valium like a normal person!"

Loved Anne Carlisle from "Liquid Sky" in her brief part.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 608/31/2010

did anyone read that article on John Lurie in the New Yorker a couple of issues ago?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 708/31/2010

Laurie Metcalf was mid-20s, playing a character 10-15 years older.

Brilliant costume design, across the board.

Great casting. Good score. Wonderful use of the Battery, Chinatown, St. Marks, and other NYC locations.

And it's a cute story.

Love it.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 809/01/2010

I'd forgotten Will Patton was in that. He's a great character actor.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 909/01/2010

I'm not a huge Madonna fan, and I don't know if this movie is actually that "good" but I really like it nonetheless. I love Rosanna Arquette's family.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 1009/01/2010

[quote]And yes, "Into the Groove" is probably the quintessential dance song of the period.

Yes, for a specific audience, but not across the board.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 1109/01/2010

Cute movie, in spite of the fact that it made Madonna think she can act. It's still her best performance.%0D %0D

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 1209/01/2010

I saw it in the theater a few times and tried to see Aidan Quinn's hot body when the blanket fell off him as he tried to knock out the person breaking into his home.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 1309/01/2010

I think it's morally reprehensible for Madonna as an actress to be dancing in a club to a song by . . . Madonna as a singer.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 1409/01/2010

You forgot the late Shirley Stoler, longtime Chelsea resident and star of "Seven Beauties" as the jail matron: "You, in the tutu, come on!"%0D %0D And the version of "Into the Groove" is an early version, stripped down, like a demo. %0D %0D The two hot Italian twin boys standing on St. Marks. %0D %0D Love Saves the Day on 2nd Ave., now closed. "Stay on the carpet!"%0D %0D "After Hours" is also very good and captures NYC just as well from this period.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 1509/01/2010

When did Love Saves the Day closed?

I'm VERY familiar with NYC in the mid 1980s considering I was at NYU at the time.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 1609/01/2010

Dont forget John Turtoro (Spelling is not right!)

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 1709/01/2010

It closed maybe 6 yrs. ago, I'm guessing. This was NYC at its artistic peak for me, the early to mid 80s. So many clubs, the downtown art & music scene. God, I miss it. All my friends from then are gone or moved away.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 1809/01/2010

"Omigod, I just read that 80 percent of all prostitutes are lesbians!"

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 1909/01/2010

Love Saves the Day closed in Jan. 09. OMG, that I thought it was SIX YEARS AGO, LOL!

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 2009/01/2010

I saw it when it came on Showtime or Cinemax many years ago. It was a weird film when it came out. I don't think Madonna likes to talk about that film.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 2109/01/2010

It's brilliant. My brother took me to see it in the cinema.

I love Gary Glass "You bought a used coat, what are we poor?"

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 2209/01/2010

Originally a vehicle for Rosanna, but Madge's star was rising on the club and radio scenes. Initially pissed, Rosanna grew to love Madonna as we all do. Limbo Lounge, Tier 3, Boy Bar, where else did we go?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 2309/01/2010

Love the scene with Mark Blum and the Hispanic maid about the shopping bag (may be a "Love Saves the Day" bag): "Mrs. Glass give to me! You cannot have! No, nooooo!"

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 2409/01/2010

Susan Seidelman directed a couple "Sex & the City" episodes, and her follow-up to this, "Making Mr. Right" totally bombed.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 2509/01/2010

I've seen them together...looks like a real greaseball to me.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 2609/01/2010

Love this movie. And it's definitely a glimpse into what New York (at least downtown) was like in the 80s.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 2709/01/2010

Kind of OT, but did the movie 'Basquiat' feel like it showed the real NYC art/music scene in the early 80s?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 2809/01/2010

This movie is way superior to "Basquiat". Don't hijack the thread.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 2909/01/2010

Madonna was good in this movie precisely because she WASN'T acting. She was playing herself. And very convincingly too.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 3009/01/2010

Slaves of New York is another movie that tries to capture the same era. Not a great movie at all but you do get a feel for the downtown art world at the time.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 3109/01/2010

Liked "Slaves" - although Bernadette was miscast, too old and not downtown hip enough for that character. Also, good songs on soundtrack "Good Life" and Boy George's "Girlfriend" (still have the 45). Also last "Slaves" was the last time Jake Ryan a/k/a Michael Schoeffling worked.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 3209/01/2010

"Desperately" drinking game, you drink whenever "Roberta" (Arquette) says: "I'm sorry!"

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 3309/01/2010

Tama Janowitz was my downstairs neighbor on W. 71st Street. She was always typing (before computers) and had two little fluffy dogs. Always had male suitors, too.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 3409/01/2010

Rockets Redglare was an E Village thug with a stupid-ass name and delusions of grandeur. Thought he was gonna be a big star.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 3509/01/2010

I though Bernadette Peters was actually very effective in the roly. She was too old, obviously, and not of that world. But she captured the character's loopiness, vulnerability, loser-ness, and, ultimately, strength perfectly.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 3609/01/2010

Didn't Rockets Redglare murder someone?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 3709/01/2010

Oh, rumor was that he murdered Nancy Spungeon.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 3809/01/2010

[quote]Rockets Redglare was an E Village thug with a stupid-ass name and delusions of grandeur. Thought he was gonna be a big star.

I actually preferred his younger brother, Bombs Bursting, who was a far more capable actor.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 3909/01/2010

And there was Wendy Wild, John Sex, Ann Magnuson, The Fleshtones, The Drongoes, Dizzy & the Romilars, Dean Johnson & the Weenies,

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 4009/01/2010

Used to see Robert Joy around HK all the time. He also worked with Tracey Ullman on her show.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 4109/01/2010

"Jimmy!" the way Madonna says that when she see him.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 4209/01/2010

First part of the movie.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 4309/01/2010

That article in the New Yorker about John Lurie was bizarre. Lurie seemed like a lunatic and that guy who was "stalking" him like a massive closet case.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 4409/01/2010

No one speaks of Tama Janowitz any more and that truly saddens me...

Is Steve Buscemi in this? I feel he should be. Playing some bad guy, no?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 4509/01/2010

Tama Janowitz moved to Brooklyn with her husband and child. She writes about that now.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 4609/01/2010

Everyone but Buscemi's in this, Will Patton has the bad guy role. Marshall Crenshaw's on the soundtrack, "Someday, Someway" plays in the diner scene where Madonna and companion are thrown out.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 4709/01/2010

I don't get the love for this movie. Lame 80s comedy, made slightly more interesting and sexy by Madonna's it-factor/star-power of that moment (and I'm far from a Madonna fan).

And it shows a very mainstream, middle America vision/fantasy of what Manhattan life is like.

Meh.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 4809/01/2010

And I bet you're a helluva lotta fun, Meh Queen. It's a comedy for chrissakes, if you want a downbeat gritty look at NYC life, rent "Panic in Needle Park" or any number of drug themed movies.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 4909/01/2010

Hey, this film was my life trying to make it as a pop star in NYC downtown in the early 80s. It's realistic to the wannabe's of that era. I recognized motivations, characters, actors, situations, locations. It's got it all, definitely Seidelman's best work and Madonna's too.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 5009/01/2010

r48, you're not getting it. The story is cute, entertaining, and actually *mixes* middle American perceptions of Manhattan with a genuine downtown perspective and vibe.

It's a slice of real life, with real downtown players acting out their real selves. That is why Madonna is such a force in this film. It was made before anyone was famous, and therefore it's not self-aware.

Btw, OP forgot Richard Hell.

It also has a killer soundtrack that actually adds to the story, instead of just being a pretentious accessory. The film is well directed, edited, and costumed/designed.

Finally, Madonna stepping off from that bus, and later drying her armpits in that bathroom, are two of the most empowering moments in 80s cinema.

It's a classic film that effortlessly achieves what so many other films have tried to do but failed.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 5109/01/2010

Very watchable, the nighttime scenes of Rosanna with the birdcage running and getting arrested are well lit and photographed and funny.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 5209/01/2010

DSS, After Hours, Tootsie, and Hannah and Her Sisters came out around the same time. I think together with Working Girl (and maybe Fatal Attraction and Romancing the Stone), those films captured NY the best. Like a puzzle, each representing a different aspect of the city.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 5309/01/2010

"Romancing the Stone" captures NYC how? Isn't it mostly shot on some tropical island?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 5409/01/2010

I remember thinking Will Patton was so hot in this with that bleach blond hair !

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 5509/01/2010

r54, the first part of the film takes places in NYC, and has a great 80s feeling to it. Especially the scenes with Kathleen Turner and her editor.

But you're right, the rest of the movie is about Colombia. I shouldn't have included it.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 5609/01/2010

Weird jacket:

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 5709/01/2010

I fucking LOVED this movie.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 5809/01/2010

"I go have my feet scrape."

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 5909/01/2010

I kinda love Liquid Sky for a more authentic vibe about the same era.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 6009/01/2010

f

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 6109/02/2010

Liquid Sky isn't authentic, it's more like a dream or sci-fi. Desperately gets 80s NYC life right.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 6209/02/2010

I'm with R48.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 6309/02/2010

I saw this years after it was released just because everyone said this was the one movie where Madonna acted well. Well I thought she sucked in this one too. I have no idea what people are talking in regards to M's performance. But I do love her music.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 6409/02/2010

So many people involved in this masterpiece couldn't top it: Madonna, Rosanna, Susan Seidelman and even beautiful Aidan Quinn....his career went absolutely nowhere. Why was that?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 6509/02/2010

"and even beautiful Aidan Quinn....his career went absolutely nowhere. Why was that?"

He did "An Early Frost". A brave thing to do in the 80s but it killed his career.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 6609/02/2010

[quote]I have no idea what people are talking in regards to M's performance%0D %0D It's not really a performance. It's just Madonna being Madonna. She's enjoyable in it precisely because she's NOT trying to act. She's loose and funny and cool. It's a reminder of when she was .... loose and funny and cool.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 6709/02/2010

r64, you've said it yourself. Madonna is not acting in it, but giving a performance. That's why she's good.

Her role is all about projecting an image - to Roberta, to her bf, to the audience. She is downtown NY personified, and nobody else could have done it better.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 6809/02/2010

r65 & r66: to be honest, his acting is a bit bland in DSS. He was pretty, but maybe not the greatest actor.

The reason it didn't get noticed was because everyone else is so good in the film.

The real question is: why didn't Rosanna Arquette have a bigger career? She was fabulous in both After Hours and DSS. Instead, her less interesting sister had the career.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 6909/02/2010

Wasn't there going to be a stage musical of this movie? The score was going to be made up of Blondie songs.%0D %0D I'm guessing that idea went nowhere.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 7009/02/2010

Into the Groove?%0D %0D You're welcome.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 7109/02/2010

So many of these films like DSS or After Hours are richer older peoples view of downtown life and just do not reflect the reality.

(I remember one film of the period--either After Hours or a Woody Allen--with a scene in a downtown club featuring guys with mohawks and piercings sitting quietly at tables while some punk band played.)

The only one mentioned that felt accurate is Liquid Sky. In spite of it being a fantasy, it really captured the feeling of downtown nightlife.

Why has Anne Carlisle had more of a career? I watched this film recently and she was amazing in her dual role. How many other actresses could believably give herself a blow job on screen?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 7209/02/2010

[quote](I remember one film of the period--either After Hours or a Woody Allen--with a scene in a downtown club featuring guys with mohawks and piercings sitting quietly at tables while some punk band played.)%0D %0D That was Hannah and her Sisters. It was the scene where Woddy goes on a date with Dianne Wiest and she snorts coke at the table and they don't get along.%0D %0D To be fair, downtown wasn't really Woody Allen's comfort zone.%0D %0D DSS and After hours are movies, you have to remember. Comedies. They're not gritty documentaries.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 7309/02/2010

Another downtown movie that I always loved is Party Girl. Stars Parker Posey and features a few real downtown people. The It Twins are in it.%0D %0D It was made in the 90s so the downtown it portrays was already on the wane. Parker Posey even said that it felt kind of retro. %0D %0D Mondo New York is a performance film that features real downtown characters as well. Joey Arias, Dean Johnson, Karen Finley, John Sex, etc. It's the real thing.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 7409/02/2010

r70

It did actually play the West End. Didn't last long.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 7509/02/2010

"Liquid Sky" plays like a European's view of NYC, doesn't have any likeable characters as I recall. It has a cold feeling and no energy, whereas "Desperately" has funny lines and characters. The person who prefers it must be a heroin addict. Another good one that captures 80s downtown is Seidelman's "Smithereens."

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 7609/02/2010

r70, DSS is so intertwined with Madonna, the notion of having Blondie music in it spells failure to anyone with half a brain. No wonder it didn't last long.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 7709/02/2010

Talent and ambition are not always synonymous. In fact, in many cases, it is just sheer ambition that makes a star. Arquette, Quinn et al could have gone on to better things with all the stardom that comes with it if they put themselves out there on a 24/7 basis. You sit and wait for the jobs to come to you and you wil quickly go into obscurity no matter how talented you are. Say what you want about Madonna, but her ambition was/is 100% sociopathic. Everlasting Stardom is about making it your entire life, breathing it and doing whatever you need to to get it. Perhaps Arquette, Quinn et al do not have that kind of monstrous drive.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 7809/02/2010

I might add that '200 Cigarettes' is a great downtown film. Yes, it was filmed in 1999 (set in 1982), and has just a few real downtown players in it (Elvis Costello makes an appearance), so it's guilty of being 'constructed' or 'unauthentic'.

However, it knows its stuff, and really gets the vibe right. Many inspired scenes, and Martha Plimpton is a very believable neo-Susan of sorts.

The film is a great afterthought to DSS and its contemporaries, imo.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 7909/02/2010

yes, because box office determines if a film is good or not.

it's you who knows nothing about movies, fuckcake.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 8109/02/2010

200 Cigarettes is a pretty enjoyable film. A guilty pleasure of mine and yeah it does capture the 80s downtown vibe.

Yes it sucks but no more than Slaves of New York.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 8209/02/2010

I'm saying that you're the only person I've ever heard that liked "200" - so....you must be fucked.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 8309/02/2010

The ugly no-talent skank Courtney is in "200" another reason to avoid it.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 8409/02/2010

That Lurie article was freaky, but I thought his friend/stalker/enemy was hot.

Anyone remember John Kelly? His Joni Mitchell performances at the Pyramid were amazing.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 8509/02/2010

"I'm saying that you're the only person I've ever heard that liked "200" - so....you must be fucked."

You need a broader diversity of friends and acquaintances.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 8609/02/2010

[quote]This was NYC at its artistic peak for me, the early to mid 80s. So many clubs, the downtown art & music scene. God, I miss it.%0D %0D Hey, me too, didn't AIDS just add to the excitement?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 8709/02/2010

I thought John Kelly sucked. Who wants to listen to some ugly queen sing just like Joni Mitchell? Ridiculous, some of the people on the downtown scene who are revered for no good reason.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 8809/02/2010

I loved this movie and After Hours, I could not get enough of the downtown 80's movies after this too bad there were so few. I was young- late teens- but I knew that these films were offering me a glimpse of a life I wanted, they have a really fun, seductive quality. Into the Groove made me ecstatic! Brings back great memories of summer in the 80's.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 8909/02/2010

God, I LOVE this film! It just had every element of things that I was so in love with at the time. The music, the fashion, the shady characters, gorgeous Aidan Quinn. Even Robert Joy, who since then has played nothing but nerdy characters was cute. I visited NYC every chance I got around the time of that film and spent most of my time down in the village, so this was my world.

Danceteria, the Kit Kat Klub, CBGB's. Man, I had some fun.

"This must be yours. Rum & Tab."

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 9009/02/2010

Robert Joy was so horribly miscast as the romantic lead-he's so frickin' homely.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 9109/02/2010

He was barely in it and he was sexy back then. He's hardly the romantic lead, that would be gorgina Aidan Quinn go back and watch the film again, douchey.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 9209/02/2010

Ah, Love Saves the Day, Canal Jeans, Alice Underground, Screaming Mimi's, Antique Boutique. .

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 9309/02/2010

And you can dance!

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 9409/02/2010

I always wonder what people like Anne Carlisle do to earn a living (provided she has to...) after a film like LIQUID SKY and that tiny role in DSS?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 9509/02/2010

Other great films that capture the spirit of New York:%0D %0D "Times Square" (with a kick ass soundtrack) %0D %0D "They All Laughed"%0D %0D "Bright Lights, Big City"%0D %0D "Ms. 45"

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 9609/02/2010

Robert Joy may not have been the nominal male lead but he did play Madonna's boyfriend so presumably SOMEBODY thought he had a lot of sex appeal back then.%0D %0D

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 9709/02/2010

"Gaaaary! She is [bold] taking [/bold] the [bold] car keys! [/bold]

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 9809/02/2010

R72 I guess I expect artistic representations to have some sense of the reality of what it shows.

Liquid Sky is not a documentary either, but is much more credible.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 9909/02/2010

Ooooooo!

We have one of those "likable character" trolls here. The kind who only can enjoy films about nice people.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 10009/02/2010

[quote]Weird jacket:

Oh, wow! I'd forgotten about that jacket. The conspiracy theorist in me wants to go and see what that was all about!

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 10109/02/2010

I never understood how Rosanna Arquette ever got anywhere as an actress. She's terribly unattractive.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 10209/02/2010

Susan! We all thought you were dead.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 10309/03/2010

I watched this in the theater as a 17 year old living in the midwest and I wanted to be Madonna. Whenever it is on TV I can't resist watching some of it. Loved Laurie Metcalf, I especially appreciate her bitchiness as I am older. "Beauty Fades".

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 10409/03/2010

What makes "Liquid" credible? It doesn't capture the fast energy of 80s downtown that was on display in DESPERATELY SEEKING SUSAN. I recall it having a cold, slow, almost dull pace.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 10509/03/2010

You repeat yourself, Barf.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 10609/03/2010

Both the movie and Madonna herself are symbols of the death of punk downtown and the rise of the ambitious, moneymaking crowd which moved into downtown NY and onto the stage.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 10709/03/2010

All I wanna do when I wake up in the morning is see you eyes, Rosanna, Rosanna

I never thought that a girl like you could ever care for me, Rosanna

All I wanna do in the middle of the evening is hold you tight, Rosanna, Rosanna

I didn't know you were looking for more than I could ever be

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 10809/03/2010

The song was actually about her, r108.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 10909/03/2010

I agree with R107.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 11009/03/2010

I love this movie... I was 10 when it came out - my friends and I were so excited to see it. Afterwards we would play games where we were characters from the movie.

I haven't seen it in a long time, either. I need to rent it, I guess.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 11109/03/2010

Rosanna is stunning.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 11203/26/2012

How is it that Susan Seidleman never duplicated her success?

I've only seen SUSAN (which I love) and MAKING MR. RIGHT, which is pretty terrible.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 11303/26/2012

Desperately Seeking Susan was the Hollywoodized New York 80s. Smithereens was much closer to reality.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 11403/26/2012

[quote]I think it's morally reprehensible for Madonna as an actress to be dancing in a club to a song by . . . Madonna as a singer.

Ha, I saw this in a rough cut in a screening room and it was funny because there no music at all. The club goers were dancing to nothing and when I saw the finished print the song worked so well.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 11503/26/2012

"Both the movie and Madonna herself are symbols of the death of punk downtown and the rise of the ambitious, moneymaking crowd which moved into downtown NY and onto the stage."

Thanks so much R107, I was just about to post this!

Someone like Madonna had NOTHING to do with how great the late 70s to 80s NYC downtown music and art scene really was. She did NOTHING to contribute to the downtown vibe at all. Copying Danceteria's elevator girl's outfits and rubber bracelets, doesn't count!

Besides, the local punk and New Wave bands, not to mention avant garde bands like James White & The Blacks, playing clubs like Danceteria, Tier 3, Limbo Lounge, The Continental and the great art scene at Area, a lot of the downtown scene was dominated by so many great British bands of that era constantly playing in the city.

Madonna did not help any of that scene in the least. Her hits were pop hits which had nothing to do with the NYC club and punk scene. Perhaps outer borough clubs played her hits, but she wasn't a dominant force on the downtown Manhattan club scene as so many here keep going on about.

There also was a whole other music scene going on, with avant garde free jazz at downtown lofts, with people like Carla Bley, Sam Rivers etc. There were so many music and art scenes going on which Madonna had absolutely NOTHING to do with.

Reading this thread many might assume Madonna was some guiding downtown NY music force back then, it's downright laughable.

Madonna, her blind ambition and minimal musical talent spelled the death knell for downtown musicians who wanted to be respected mainly for their talent! She created this horrible need for the visuals to be more important than actual talent. Madonna and MTV, they both ruined rock and pop music!

Some of the best concerts I ever saw were at Danceteria and The Ritz, these were amazing shows with bands such as The Specials, Liquid Liquid, The Jam, The Fleshtones, The British Beat, The Higsons, Sade, The Police, U2 (yes, U2 before Bono started acting like a saviour) The Pretenders, Yazoo and so many more.

Madonna had nothing to do with the diverse rock music going on in downtown NY at the time.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 11603/26/2012

[quote]How is it that Susan Seidleman never duplicated her success?

She had the three flops in a row (Making Mr. Right, Cookie, and especially She-Devil) and then people seemed to stop asking her to direct.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 11703/26/2012

"She-Devil" rocks!

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 11803/26/2012

R116 Before Madonna was MADONNA, she and her new wave bands The Breakfast Club and Emmy would play at CBGBs and Max's Kansas City. They may not have been very memorable, but they were definitely a part of that downtown scene. Later, Madonna became Jean Michel Basquiat's girl, and became a periphery character in the Manhattan art scene before moving on to commercial success, so in a way, she does represent that bygone era of NYC nightlife.

Madonna at Max's Kansas City:

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 11903/26/2012

Doesn't anyone remember the "no-wave" movement? There were plenty of films that captured the spirit and music of the E. Village punk/new wave era from the mid-70's to the mid-80's. None of them were glitzy or mainstream. Directors like Amos Poe, Beth B and Scott B Vivienne DIck, Eric Mitchell, Charlie Ahearn, and many others.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 12003/26/2012

[quote]I actually preferred his younger brother, Bombs Bursting, who was a far more capable actor.

Their little stepsister Purple Mountains Majesty was stripping for a while in Chelsea.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 12103/26/2012

[quote]And the version of "Into the Groove" is an early version, stripped down, like a demo.

I love the stripped down version. It's the best one.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 12203/26/2012

Laurie Metcalf (sp?) is a pretty good actress. Around the time of DSS she also had a one episode part as Sam Malone's love interest on Cheers.

The makeup artists on Roseanne must have been instructed to ugg it up because even recent pictures of LM look radiant, pretty. A totally different vibe than the harpy parts she usually plays.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 12303/26/2012

Ooh I'll have to listen to the bare version ^ of GITG.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 12403/26/2012

Love this movie too! Laurie Metcalfe and "Gary!" (don't know his real name!) were the best part of the film.

God, I remember "Personal Ads" were big in the 80s - of course way before Internet dating!

And She-Devil does rock -great movie! Straight men hated it because of the hard-edge feminist message.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 12503/26/2012

Yes Meryl Streep was funny in She Devil, as was Roseanne's hairy mole. I remember my mom howling with laughter at it, my dad was quiet. Great movie.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 12603/26/2012

Actually, the version I like best is what plays at the end credits. It's a small detail, but instead of a fade out of the vocals they end with the chorus and Madonna singing one final "yeah" and then the music fades out.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 12703/26/2012

"I think it's morally reprehensible for Madonna as an actress to be dancing in a club to a song by . . . Madonna as a singer."

Jeez, Mary, overreact much? Morally reprehensible? You need to get a grip, dear!

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 12803/26/2012

Love this film. God how NYC was edgy then.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 12903/26/2012

To like this movie, you have to buy into the ridiculous notion that Madonna and Arquette were practically identical and easily mistaken for one another.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 13003/26/2012

r116 is hyperventilating over nothing.

No one actually thinks that Madonna was guiding the downtown music scene in the early 80s. She was a PART of that scene, however. That is why she - and this film - feel so genuine.

Btw, Seidelman hired Madonna because she knew her as a 'character' of said scene.

Madonna embodied the vibe and energy of early 80s downtown New York, and that's why she's perfect for this film.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 13103/26/2012

"Doesn't anyone remember the "no-wave" movement? There were plenty of films that captured the spirit and music of the E. Village punk/new wave era from the mid-70's to the mid-80's. None of them were glitzy or mainstream. Directors like Amos Poe, Beth B and Scott B Vivienne DIck, Eric Mitchell, Charlie Ahearn, and many others."

Try explaining this to R119.

Max's was no longer happening by the time Madonna appeared at there. It's cool factor was dwindling down, with crappy bands booked to appear there, case in point Madonna.

Max's had lost it's exclusive factor too, Max's Mickey Ruskin who usually manned the door, never just let anyone in, the club had a door policy. It wasn't quite a Club Kid style they were looking, but you had to look artistic or different. Mickey actual had nothing to do with Max's by 1974. IIRC, Danny Fields took the club over, he started to book anyone and everyone.

The Max's I remember was when Warhol was holding court in the 'back room' and then a bit after that, when The NY Dolls and then bands like Television were playing upstairs.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 13203/26/2012

Loved this movie when it opened and saw it three times in the theatre. Recently caught up with it again on HBO and it hasn't aged as well as I hoped it would. The thinks I liked about it the first time around (like Metcalf, Blum and the long lost world of 80s NYC) still are amazing to behold. However Madonna and Arquette (both of whom I loved way back when) are really crappy and drag the movie down. Speaking of Seidelman just saw a review of her newest movie in the Times on Friday and it was treacherously bad. It has something to do with wheelchair dancing competitions and such. Actually it sounded so bad it might actually be great.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 13303/26/2012

I had the 45 picture disc of Into the Groove. Gawd, I was such a gayling. Still, it's so cool (see link).

"I like her but I just wish she'd sing songs that help people." -- Rosanna on Madonna

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 13403/26/2012

I think "After Hours" is a more quintessentially 80s film.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 13503/26/2012

[quote] actually preferred his younger brother, Bombs Bursting

I thought he was called Burstyn N. Ayre

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 13603/26/2012

"I like her but I just wish she'd sing songs that help people." -- Rosanna on Madonna

What the hell did Rosanna mean by that?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 13703/26/2012

[quote]I thought he was called Burstyn N. Ayre

That family was never THAT clever.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 13803/26/2012

"Beauty fades" - loved Laurie Metcalfe.

Still a favorite movie, Madonna was at her best in it.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 13903/26/2012

I think it has aged really well.

Rosanna is charming, and Madonna doesn't need to act well here. She has amazing presence in this film.

Great, great score and soundtrack. Wonderful direction... there's not a frame that isn't fun to watch.

I have seen it many times, and it always transports me.

Definitely one of my favorite films ever!

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 14003/26/2012

R130 - yes, Madonna had a good 20 lbs on Rosanna.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 14103/27/2012

Laurie Metcalf is so good as Sheldon's mother on BBT. She is warm and intelligent and doesn't make a mockery or satire of the role.

She is actually far more talented than people realize because she brings a subtle depth to her characters. She was great as Roseanne's troubled sister, but never played a victim or played it for laughs/tears. Not easy.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 14203/27/2012

Laurie is wonderful in almost anything she does.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 14303/27/2012

It really is a decent movie, and I agree that it's aged well. That surprises me.

Madonna was fine. As written, the role played to her strengths. Like someone said, she didn't have to be Streep to do well in that role.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 14403/27/2012

R116, thank you for writing that. It's great to hear the perspective of a native downtowner. I just moved to NYC 4 1/2 years ago; boy did I miss out.

I love this movie and like this period of Madonna's career (not that I would count her among my favorites by any stretch), but appreciate your take on it.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 14503/27/2012

This movie was supposed to be the beginning of Madonna's brilliant movie stardom. Hah!

An ass-kissing article in Rolling Stone (the cover was of Madonna wearing that short, vanilla-colored hairstyle) claimed that she was certain to be one of the "most bankable" actresses of the eighties. Again: hah!

Madonna's attempt to be a movie star went the same route as Oprah Winfrey's. They both made a big splash in their first major roles and it was all downhill from there, probably because neither of them had any acting talent or movie star quality. But I guess that being megalomaniacs they both thought that would be no hinderance.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 14603/28/2012

R146, so Madonna and Oprah are big failures because they made their mountains of money being performer/moguls who controlled their own careers? I don't particularly like either one of them, but c'mon.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 14703/28/2012

"so Madonna and Oprah are big failures because they made their mountains of money being performer/moguls who controlled their own careers?"

They failed as actresses/movie stars and both of them really, REALLY wanted to be admired, successful actresses. Winfrey even stated that she wanted to be a GREAT actress and win an Oscar. Since both of them have egos bigger than the world, it's amusing that they both so dearly wanted to succeed in the world of acting, and both failed miserably.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 14803/28/2012

Loved the movie. It was really Arquette's movie as far as the female leads go. Madonna was fine for what she was had to be.

I thought Aiden was gorgeous and I loved the character.

It did capture the downtown Manhattan alternative scene in the 80s.

They totally should have scrapped the Madonna song at the end which was a precursor to all her other sucky songs that followed. It violated the whole counter-culture theme of the movie which is what made the film cool to begin with.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 14903/28/2012

"Madonna (should have stopped after this film)"

Save your editorial, jackhole.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 15003/28/2012

"You looking for a job?"

Yea, yea I think I am!?"

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 15103/28/2012

Madonna at the DSS premiere

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 15207/22/2012

Get into the Groove

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 15307/22/2012

r149 makes no sense as 'Into the Groove' is played in the middle of the movie as well (in the Danceteria scene).

In any case, it's a great song, and fits the mood of the movie very well. And thematically, the film juxtaposes the NY counter-culture with middle America. Madonna's song is the perfect bridge between both worlds.

The Shoop-Shoop Song plays during the opening sequence - does it violate your downtown ethics too, r149?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 15407/22/2012

R154 is right, GitG is a great dance song.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 15507/22/2012

I wish I could have been a part of the downtown NY scene that we saw in this movie, but I was about 10 years too young. I didn't move to NY until the mid 90's for college and that whole world was already gone by then. Too bad.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 15607/22/2012

R156, I was about 3-5 years too young.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 15707/22/2012

r155, the song is actually called 'Into the Groove', not 'Get into the Groove'.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 15807/22/2012

Suzanne Vega was almost Susan. Luka awaits, on the second floor.

Anne Carlisle where for art thou?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 15907/22/2012

Well, they sure don't make movies like this anymore.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 16007/23/2012

Never got that into it. Madonna was annoying as fuck. Bitchy and constantly chomping gum like a cow (pet peeve) if I remember.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 16107/23/2012

Even with Madonna's gum chewing, it's a great movie.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 16207/23/2012

Get into the Groove

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 16312/08/2012

Bloopers

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 16412/08/2012

Rockets Redglare is supposedly the murderer of Nancy Spungen.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 16512/08/2012

r116 I applaud you. Thank you for that after so many decades of Madonna bullshit. . . that made me feel clean. I remember that era well.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 16612/08/2012

Well we know who is running her career:

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 16712/08/2012

bump

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 16812/08/2012

I just saw this movie the other day for the first time in years and forgot what a fun movie it is. I remember always wanting a circle suitcase like Susan had.

[quote]And the version of "Into the Groove" is an early version, stripped down, like a demo.

I noticed that too - it was very flat and demo-like.

[quote]I don't think Madonna likes to talk about that film.

Why? It's one of the very few things she was decent in (because she was basically playing herself).

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 16905/04/2013

It's the only Vadge film I like and I'm a hardcore fan. If she stopped here her film career might have been remembered fondly.

1985 was her year, this was when straight guys found her hot. The film is quintessential 80s like you say, a classic 80s movie.

And she has never bettered "Into the Groove".

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 17005/04/2013

[quote]It's the only Vadge film I like and I'm a hardcore fan. If she stopped here her film career might have been remembered fondly.

Exactly. Or she just should have stuck to small supporting roles like in Dick Tracy and A League of Their Own and let the REAL actors stick to the leads. But Vadge's ego always insisted that she should be a lead, which is her movies where she was the lead were such flops. She doesn't have the talent to carry a film on her own. And the only reason "Evita" was OK was because it was mostly singing and dancing - what she's used to.

If Vadge had just stuck to supporting roles in films, her film "career" may not have become such a joke.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 17105/04/2013

Ten Greatest Movies of the 80s:

1. Desperately Seeking Susan (1985)

2. Xanadu (1980)

3. Yentl (1983)

4. Pretty In Pink (1986)

5. Flashdance (1983)

6. Footloose (1984)

7. Beat Street (1984)/Breakin' (1984)

8. Streets Of Fire (1984)

9. Dirty Dancing (1987)

10. Fame (1980)

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 17205/04/2013

Uh, R172, I can see I won't be attending movie night at your place. I hate every movie on your list (lol). That list must be a joke. Joke?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 17305/04/2013

I agree R171

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 17405/04/2013

For some reason I thought Gary Glass was hunky back then. Totally the kind of 80s douche I was into...

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 17505/04/2013

I see this all the time on cable. It's actually pretty enjoyable.

I was a pre-teen when it came out, and I hadn't really associated Madonna with the gay community yet. Madonna was more of my sister's thing, and I saw the movie with her. Didn't love it at the time (thought it was okay), and enjoy it much more now. It's just quirky and funny and works.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 17605/04/2013

I loved Swept Away.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 17705/04/2013

The Next Best Thing is considered the nadir and what killed off her career. I haven't saw it or the Swept Away remake (original is brilliant) and nor do I want to, clips were enough.

The fag hag Will & Grace knock off yoga instructor character (she had it changed to that), the fugly orange hair, Rupert Everett, American Pie, the bit where she pulls back her face and says "I'm not 24 anymore (no kidding!)", the British accent, the ever present halo glow she has thanks to the backlight which she no doubt insisted on. The once highly respected Oscar winning director died shortly afterward.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 17805/04/2013

While at the time I rolled my eyes at Desperately Seeking Susan for trying (and failing) to portray a NYC Downtown scene that was already dying.

Compared to what life in a sanitized NYC (downtown or anywhere, really) now, the film is priceless.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 17905/05/2013

[quote]While at the time I rolled my eyes at Desperately Seeking Susan for trying (and failing) to portray a NYC Downtown scene that was already dying.

What year did the NYC Downtown "scene" start dying?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 18005/05/2013

This really was Rosanna's film.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 18105/05/2013

R116 Madonna uses to play drums and guitar for a new wave band called The Breakfast Club you idiot!

A few years back there was grainy footage of her rocking out and playing guitar in some Long Island biker bar with brunette hair in 1981.

She dated Jean-Michel Basquit and was good friends with Andy Warhol, he mentions her a lot in The Andy Warhol Diaries.

She was definitely part of that scene.

She also knew and hung out with The Beastie Boys and RUN DMC, who both opened for her on her Virgin Tour.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 18205/05/2013

R182 And Madbot is back!

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 18305/05/2013

Into The Groove is definitely one of the greatest dance songs of all time. Steve Bray came up with a KILLER baseline and Madonna herself said that she wrote the lyrics thinking about a cute Puerto Rican boy who lived across the street from her.

Susan Seidelman said that when filming started she was kinda famous and a teen idol, but when filming ended she had become an overnight superstar and they needed extra security on the set to keep the crowds away.

After this movie came out and was a huge commercial and critical success, Madonna was offered a bunch of starring roles in big budget movies including the Bette Midler role in Ruthless People which even Rolling Stone reported that RP would be her next film.

Madonna was also attached to star in The Witches of Eastwick but dropped out due to scheduling problems

She turned down the Jennifer Grey part in Dirty Dancing because she thought the script was "fluff".

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 18405/05/2013

The biggest film that Madonna turned down was the Julia Roberts part in Pretty Woman, at the time the script was called 3000.

In his book director Gary Marshall said that he really wanted Madonna for the part of Vivian, but after thinking it over she turned it down and decided to do Dick Tracy instead.

DT was a hit, but it wasn't nearly as big or as culturally impactful as Pretty Woman.

Big mistake, HUGE mistake

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 18505/05/2013

r14 needs to get laid .. or get a job.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 18605/05/2013

r71 in an interview she did a few years ago in Rolling Stone, Madonna gave credit where credit was was due for ITG - namely, Stephen Bray.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 18705/05/2013

I have to disagree with r116 too - he obviously doesn't know anything about Madonna's pre-stardom NY days. She went pop to get famous, but her music was much harder and edgier when she was a struggling band member.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 18805/05/2013

r185, it's easy to say that, but it could have probably been a completely different film with Madge in the role. As disgusting as PW is, it was really the chemistry between Richard Gere and JR that made a good script great, and they were directorable, something Madonna really has a hard time with. She's constantly thinking about the pose she is affecting to be an affective actress. In DSS, she posed; in Dick Tracy, she posed. And Evita was one lng music video.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 18905/05/2013

Madonna was definitely well into that scene and part of it, even if an anomaly. Sonic Youth knew her and created the band Ciccone Youth at the height of her success. According to them she also dated their indie legend friend Michael Gira (The Swans). So she was ensconced in that whole No Wave/Mutant Disco scene in some way.

She's always saying stupid things then changing her mind 2 minutes later. She said I'm Breathless was her favourite out of her albums, she slagged off Into the Groove calling it dumb. She said she didn't like rock, then started playing guitar in her shows - also forgetting she played guitar pre-fame as it didn't fit the story. She said ABBA were boring, then did Hung Up.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 19005/05/2013

"I like her but I just wish she'd sing songs that help people." -- Rosanna on Madonna

And "Rosanna" helps crippled children walk?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 19105/05/2013

Madonna was trying to lose weight, or rather not to gain any. So when the script called for her to be eating, she'd spit out the food at the end of the take

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 19205/05/2013

Aidan Quinn was pefect casting in this...those amazing sexy blue eyes! He never had a follow-up hit film in spite of being a decent actor. What happened?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 19305/06/2013

I'm no Madonna fan but she was definitely part of the downtown scene in the early 80s. She wasn't a celebutante or one of the IT girls or anything. She as more just another cool girl in weird clothes going to clubs and trying to do something arty.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 19405/06/2013

[quote]What year did the NYC Downtown "scene" start dying?

I'd put the beginning of the end at 1983 when CLUB 57 closed.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 19505/06/2013

Downtown started its decline when the mainstream media picked up on it around 1983. People, Time, Newsweek, etc. Then it became more about money and less about art and having fun. People like Michael Musto and Tama Janowitz started writing books about it (presumably hoping to cash in).

Then when Warhol died in 1987, it was over. It lingered for a while as new clubs opened and people continued to do interesting things. But it was essentially done. The old guard moved on.

Then Michael Alig and his club kids came along. And we all know how that turned out. It had nothing do to with art whatsoever. It was just dressing up, drugs, clubs, and parties. As wacky and weird as the club kids were only a small handful of them were really doing anything interesting with their lives.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 19605/06/2013

I never understood why people say she's good in DSS. She's bad in almost every movie including DSS. It's her voice that ruins everything. It's monotone, flat. It's like she's reading lines at a table read.

It wouldn't have mattered if she ended up in those other movies. She would have ruined them and they would not have been good.

I do like her music though.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 19705/06/2013

Trivia: The boutique owner in the movie is the same guy that was James Franco's professor at NYU that James whined about getting a "D" from.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 19805/06/2013

Absolutely R197. Her voice has always been the problem, it's so precise and enunciated and was never pleasant to listen to - though in the 80s-early 90s it wasn't as bad. Then she became snootier and stuck-up, thinking she was an artist.

The arrogant bint thought she could act without lessons and training - her first acting teacher Mira Rostova hated her and gave her her marching orders after their first session.

The acting coach said, "This girl will never be an actress. She's too vulgar and she thinks she knows it all. Besides, I do not like her.". Had to look that up but great anecdote.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 19905/06/2013

Yeah R175, there's something sexy about him, he's so sleazy. Nice to see he has a following.

Aiden Quinn was the beautiful one, the quintessential Prince Charming. I saw him recently doing an Irish accent on this mega downer film about abusive priests at a catholic boys school. He does alright, it's on youtube.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 20005/06/2013

[quote]Madonna was trying to lose weight, or rather not to gain any. So when the script called for her to be eating, she'd spit out the food at the end of the take

Actually that happens on almost all shoots. There is usually a spit bucket where the actors spit the food into after they call cut. No one wants to be constantly eating if they have to do take after take.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 20105/06/2013

Is there an actual Magic Club in NYC? If not, where was the outside of the Club filmed? It looks so cool in the movie...

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 20205/07/2013

I don't think so R201

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 20305/07/2013

R199 and yet she's the biggest selling, highest grossing touring and richest female artist of all time

She has more top 10 singles than anybody in history

She's routinely featured in first place on lists of the greatest women in music history

She was named by Time magazine as one of the 25 most important and powerful women of the last century.

I don't think Madonna cares.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 20405/07/2013

R203 Yes it is true. Actors do not really eat while performing. Even on stage. It's is one of the first lessons you learn as a performer.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 20505/07/2013

Oh fuck off Madbot at R199, that's relevant to this discussion about her *acting talent* how exactly? You're quite right she obviously does not care at all because she didn't take acting class and ignored her first teacher.

Go and join the even more mentally challenged delusional Janbot. If you want to quote stats why aren't you a Mariah fan, they can argue with you about who's the best selling till the last brain cell pops out of your head.

I already said I was a hardcore loon and for the record even liked the divisive Hard Candy, MDNA and its tour.

But I didn't come on DL to defend her like some mindless unquestioning retard, this isn't the Icon forums. I will post information when necessary to add to the discussion cause I know MORE about her than you ever will. For myself and plenty of other fans (many on here obviously), in general she's lost it lately. It's not 1990 anymore.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 20605/07/2013

*R204 is the Madbot of course. I'm sure these are parody posters.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 20705/07/2013

R206. I'm just stating FACTS and saying in the grand scheme of things the facts that her acting career wasn't as successful as her record breaking game changing music career doesn't mean shit to her

And you may feel that Madonna has lost it a bit, but she had the highest grosing tour of last year and Billboard magazine recently names her the highest earning musician of 2012 and the Los Angeles Times named her the most powerful musician of 2012.

So again I don't think she gives a fuck!

Who else that debuted during the 80s is still on top?

Wait till the Forbes most powerful celebrities list is released all the haters on DL will be in meltdown mode.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 20805/07/2013

But nobody ever disputed those achievements did they, R208? And hell, 2 of her only 80s peers are DEAD. The Live Nation deal was one of her shrewdest moves as a businesswoman. Many have said the quality of her new music has went down since she focussed on being a touring act, but it was very wise with record sales in the shitter and her time in the spotlight being up.

Regardless of those tours, fans know it’s all about nostalgia and she’s a heritage act now a la Rolling Stones (dogged refusal to do many hits or not). Her legend and permanent fame status aside, she’s not exactly what you’d call “relevant” yet keeps embarrassingly pitching herself toward the youth market with rubbish like the Katy Perry knock off “Give Me All Your Lovin”. Now that song is indefensible before you point out it was top 10.

For the acting, she definitely cares or did. While she is less deluded than other stars, I think it’s safe to say she’d rather have an Oscar than a Grammy. Despite claiming to not watch TV and care about awards, when finally winning a Grammy she called herself “the Susan Lucci of the music business”.

Contrary to popular belief she started out as an actress and wanting to be one, that and fame was definitely the goal. The music was probably to piggyback her way to fame as an actress – we had to put up with missing a Ray of Light tour for The Next Best Thing for instance.

She seems to have a greater interest and knowledge in film than she does for music, which annoyingly she never talks about much – remember her presenting best foreign language film at the GGs where she made sure she put in how much she knew about this, less they thought she was a talentless pop bimbo who had no right being there.

If she doesn’t care, why trying out as a director and getting Harvey Weinstein to boot? I didn’t think the film was that bad compared to some of her acting efforts, but it had as many trainwreck directorial choices as her choices as an actress.

She actually thought she could act and said Who’s that Girl was her only bad performance, she blamed the films rather than herself. Why did she persist for 20 years at something she wasn’t good at if she didn't care?

The only acknowledgement we got was in the bitter “Hollywood” – “I lost my reputation bad and good”, she clearly is not happy this is the only real blot on her legacy. Unless she had a Lohan-style delusion and it was all self-preservation then she never knew when to quit, she was made a laughing stock. She complained about reviews but come on, there was consensus there among critics and the public. Only as a mute in her videos was she any good.

She did the West End in a disastrous panned performance before finally packing it in, this was after saying how much she hated her Broadway stint. She slagged off many other actresses, saying what they were doing "wasn’t art", she scrawled Judi “fucking” Dench on the Dame’s dressing room at that West End theatre and she stopped working with a man when he found out he was the father of Kate Winslet. Then what about the post Oscar party thing she hosts for the A listers? She said she would be nominated for an Oscar when asked the question before Evita. These are not the actions of someone who ”doesn’t care”. Sadly for her and us she very much did.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 20905/07/2013

I saw the movie. It was really good except for Madonna's song at the end which was completely the wrong style for arty people living in the LES. Ruined the scene throwing in the mainstraem shit music.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 21005/07/2013

Wondering if I posted r104 because that is so me.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 21105/07/2013

Apparently, Madonna and Stephen Bray recorded a title song for the film called "Desperately Seeking Susan". It was never released. I am surprised it has never popped up on YT.

I love the soundtrack for the film, especially this signature tune:

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 21205/09/2013

"Madonna was definitely well into that scene and part of it, even if an anomaly. Sonic Youth knew her and created the band Ciccone Youth at the height of her success. According to them she also dated their indie legend friend Michael Gira (The Swans). So she was ensconced in that whole No Wave/Mutant Disco scene in some way."

Yep, anomaly was right. I had a friend who worked at Danceteria, Madonna had to fuck fug Danceteria DJ Mark Kamins to get her shit demo record played there. She'd stop at nothing to be get noticed.

Michael Gira, huh? Madonna fucked a lot of downtown music scene guys, no surprise about Gira.

She was constantly couch surfing and fucking different guys to make any sort of connection, that was simply what she did, that doesn't make her important to that scene, just a very ambitious user. The question should be, who didn't she fuck and fuck over?

Don't act if you know it all about the downtown NYC music scene of that era, you do not. You sound like someone who read some Madonna biography and is simply repeating what they read.

I was part of that scene, I am not a musician, but knew tons of them, besides being friends first with many of these guys and girls, I also worked in the music business.

I had friends in bands,for example, the original Ramones drummer used to play rhythm guitar in a close friend's glitter rock band before forming The Ramones.

I knew a ton of people in that downtown scene, they were musicians, artists and gallery owners. I have friends who bought lofts for $20,000. They were part of that scene when Soho was gritty and scary, not the current mall for the wealthy which is what Soho is today.

Madonna was not an important part of the downtown scene, stop trying to push this ridiculous myth, if anything, she was on the peripheries, she played in certain venues when clubs like Max's were dying.

Posting a photo of Madonna with dark hair holding a guitar proves nothing. A cousin's band played at CBGBs in their dying days, the band was unmemorable, as were Madonna's performances during those days.

In the waning days of true experimentation in that scene, club owners were booking anyone with some tenuous connection to 'punk' or 'new wave'.

I hung out with other native New Yorkers who were in bands and others who were trying to make name in the art world, not some annoying nasally voice nothing from Michigan. Most of my friends bands became famous. I am not here to brag, it's not important to name people I've known since I was a teen. These people were my friends, some of them became very famous in the music and art worlds.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 21305/12/2013

That should have been: "Posting a photo of Madonna with dark hair holding a guitar proves nothing. A cousin's band played at CBGBs in their dying days, the band was unmemorable, as were Madonna's performances during those dying Max's days."

I realize CBGB's closed way after Madonna had already become famous.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 21405/12/2013

Wow r213 you sound incredibly bitter that Madonna became who she did and none of your friends did. Been thirty years, Dear.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 21505/12/2013

Oh thanks R213 love that info. Fucking brilliant.

R212 yeah, there's quite a lot of stuff in the vaults such as "Warning Signs" from Vision Quest which a fan has a copy of but can't share till instructed by his source or something.

She has always been stingy and just won't release this archive stuff and Warners are almost damaging her recording legacy with things like releasing inferior edits (such as on that Celebration album) with audible errors which fans would notice. Fans of other artists like Kylie, Pet Shop Boys and Bjork get everything under the sun. We never had a boxset. Oh well.

All the old pre-fame Emmy stuff is up there, some surprisingly decent for what it is. In fact I believe she fell out with Bray for releasing that Pre-Madonna album and didn't even mention him in her R&R Hall of Fame speech despite being THE key player on her path to fame.

Debi Mazar is far and away her coolest friend as she's the only one left who knew her before she became famous.

Anyway, here is the definitive account of her rise to the top.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 21605/14/2013

I love love this movie but i wonder if i'd feel the same if the part of susan had been played by someone other than madonna?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 21705/14/2013

The scene with Madonna walking down the street eating cheesies while wearing gloves has turned out to be a classic shot. Incredible her film career went SO badly. But we'll always have the cheesies.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 21805/14/2013

""Wow [R213] you sound incredibly bitter that Madonna became who she did and none of your friends did. Been thirty years, Dear."

Reading comprehension must not be your forte, did you READ the last part of my post?

"Most of my friends bands became famous. I am not here to brag, it's not important to name people I've known since I was a teen. These people were my friends, some of them became very famous in the music and art worlds"

Bitter, not at all. My friends were members of The Ramones, Blondie and well a ton of artists who are now very wealthy and as famous as Madonna. As for me, I work behind the scenes in the art world, I am not complaining. I have succeded in my field.

Bottom line, so many people reset Madonna's success, simply due to the fact that she CANNOT SING, IS a MAJOR BITCH TO MOST PEOPLE SHE COMES IN CONTACT WITH, NEVER SEEMS GRATEFUL FOR HER SUCCESS, IS NOT VERY BRIGHT and was basically RIPPING OFF OTHERS and REPACKING OTHERS IDEAS TO PRESENT TO HER UNSOPHISTACTED CLUELESS AUDIENCE.

Now, do you COMPREHEND my post?

As I've mentioned previously, so many here are not even native New Yorkers, let alone downtown New Yorkers who were actually part of that scene. My guess is that many posters here are not people who really knew what the hell was going on back then, let alone downtown NYC! Please do not comment on things you know nothing about.

Madonna was definitely not a very big part of that emerging downtown NYC music and art scene.

Madonna herself has even mentioned in interviews that she did anything necessary to garner attention to get her into showbiz, if 'punk rock' didn't work out for her, she went on to 'dance music'.

Madonna herself has even mentioned in interviews that she did anything necessary to garner attention to get her into showbiz, if 'punk rock' didn't work out for her, she went on to 'dance music'.

Madonna is basically a failed dancer who got very very lucky, mostly thanks to MTV having a niche for someone like her to get exposure. Without the visuals, and calculated controversy, she'd be nothing.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 21905/15/2013

R213 yes she just had a tenuous connection to the downtown scene and was there at the time, I didn't mean mean to overstate that - I did say anamoly and "in some way", part of it is of course not true, she was networking as you say.

She just lived in it with the clubbing etc (Janice Dickinson said she had terrible B.O. when dancing with her). Some reviews pointed out she could have had a different pathway in music with those early pre-fame demos and connections but that also of course isn't true; by her own admission fame was the goal "I wanna rule the world".

Of course I'm just repeating bits from her bio, I never professed to be part of the Downtown scene lest in that country or even born then. The Michael Gira bit is less known and came from a Ciccone Youth interview in the NME.

You also though are just reiterating stuff that's long been in bios and confirming what is already known - Mark Kamins, her fucking her way to the top (not exactly a novel tactic in showbiz), treading over people - manager Camille Barbone in particular. This is even in that hilarious TV movie I posted.

Here are some of those fucked over or bitter people, you decide

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 22005/15/2013

[quote]Richard Edson (was in Stranger Than Paradise and the band KONK)

And Madonna appeared in one of their videos with best friend Martin Burgoyne who died of AIDS shortly afterward as did close friend Keith Haring. Basquait seemed to be a fleeting relationship.

Anyway her appearing in a Konk video was long known about but unseen till a silent 6 second clip appeared on YouTube. Now the full version has surfaced. It says it was directed by Ed Steinberg who shot the Everybody video the next weekend.

By the way, from the original scene Debbie Harry has a love/hate relationship with Madonna and believes she stole her act and was unfortunate enough to be signed to Sire. Certainly she is the only real Madonna precursor in music.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 22105/15/2013

"You also though are just reiterating stuff that's long been in bios and confirming what is already known - Mark Kamins, her fucking her way to the top (not exactly a novel tactic in showbiz), treading over people - manager Camille Barbone in particular. This is even in that hilarious TV movie I posted."

I have never read any biography about Madonna. My close friends knew what was going on at Danceteria, this during the time Madonna was trying to get her demo played there and also saw her hanging out there. These same friends also knew Mark Kamins personally, I knew who Madonna was when she was 'dating' him. She was dripping with attitude even back then. A real little snot.

Other friends attended one of Madonna's parties, it's difficult to be specific because I don't want to reveal anyone's identity, one of them still has a social relationship with Madonna because this person works in showbiz and sees Madonna at functions.

These people also know Debi Mazur, who is a real class act, Debi keeps a low profile re discussing Madonna.

I am sure Debi felt bad when Madonna blew he off for awhile. IIRC, the reason was that Debi didn't share Madonna's interest in Kabbalah. Madonna is a control freak, it extends to trying to control her friends, she actually has few real or deep friendships.

Back to the party, Madonna's party was pathetic, she barely provided enough food and drinks for her guests, which my friends couldn't believe, especially as she was very wealthy at that point. I guess she didn't provide many refreshments hoping it would get to the media and then she could berate her guests for gossiping! What a nutter.

This was the infamous New Year's party where she bared her breasts at 12AM. At the same party Madonna berated a woman for bumping into her stereo system, yelling loudly at her, she wanted to embarrass her. Madonna seems to take great pleasure into making others feel like shit.

My friends run the gamut from knowing Madonna when she was poor and other friends hung with her when she was already famous. Not one person I know who knew/knows her has said anything positive about this woman.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 22205/17/2013

"The filmmakers had initially wanted Diane Keaton and Goldie Hawn to play the roles of Roberta and Susan, but the director decided to cast newcomers Rosanna Arquette and Madonna instead and the studio wanted the film to have younger actors in order to appeal to younger filmgoers. Bruce Willis was up for the role of "Dez" and Melanie Griffith was up for the part of "Susan". Madonna barely beat out Ellen Barkin and Jennifer Jason Leigh for the part of Susan. Suzanne Vega also auditioned for the role of Susan, but was passed over."

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 22312/03/2013

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 22412/03/2013

I also enjoyed this movie, but am confused about Madonna's acting in this film compared to the rest of her efforts: she was [italic]good[/italic]. It was by no means an Oscar-worthy performance, but Madonna played the character well and received positive reviews.

So what happened? How did she go from being good to being awful? Is she underrated as an actress because of her status? Or did she try for roles/projects beyond her skills after DSS?

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 22512/03/2013

R225 - She was good, but she was playing a character within her limited range.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 22612/03/2013

R225 She did good in the role because she was basically playing herself.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 22712/04/2013

R255, "She did good..."

Please attend to your cows, they need milking.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 22812/04/2013

R228 Oh, dear - please fuck off with the grammar police shit.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 22912/04/2013

Aidan Quinn "gorgeous"? The OP has low standards for what "gorgeous" is apparently.

AWG alert!

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 23012/04/2013

Aidan Quinn was very handsome in this move but for some reason I was more fixated with Mark Blum.

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 23112/04/2013

Movie turns 30 this year!

by Take a Valium like a normal person.reply 23203/13/2015
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