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The JonBenet case

She would have been twenty this week.

Here's the entirety of the mysterious ransom note, for those of you who remember the case:


Mr. Ramsey,

Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We do respect your bussiness [sic] but not the country that it serves. At this time we have your daughter in our posession [sic]. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.

You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 am tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a [sic] earlier delivery pick-up of your daughter.

Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them. Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I., etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she dies. You can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart [sic] us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us John. Use that good southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now John!



by Anonymousreply 497February 1, 2021 12:00 AM

I wonder if the author of the note was stoned when she wrote it.

by Anonymousreply 1August 17, 2010 10:08 PM

What's your point? We all KNOW Patsy did it!

by Anonymousreply 2August 17, 2010 11:34 PM

Where's that brother of hers now? I subscribe to the theory that he "accidentally" killed her while they were playing some dangerous game, and mom decided to cover for him with that ridiculous note, etc.

by Anonymousreply 3August 17, 2010 11:36 PM

The case will never be solved now.

by Anonymousreply 4August 17, 2010 11:39 PM

I've always thought Patsy wrote the note after she or maybe the son accidentally killed JBR. But reading the note today, for the first time in several years, I'm struck by the content. How could a mother, probably hysterical after seeing her much-loved daughter dead, sit down and write a note that repeatedly mentions JBR being beheaded. Why be so specific about "two gentlemen" watching over JBR (instead of just "the men watching your daughter")? Why advise John to be rested? %0D %0D Don't get me wrong, I still think she wrote it...but I just find the wording to be really odd -- especially considering the conditions under which she wrote it.

by Anonymousreply 5August 18, 2010 12:03 AM

O Patsy, why hast thou forsaken us?

by Anonymousreply 6August 18, 2010 12:08 AM

"You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart [sic] us"%0D %0D That is very odd. Why 99% instead of 100%?

by Anonymousreply 7August 18, 2010 12:13 AM

I went with a friend of mine to visit Jon Benet's grave in the Atlanta area. Patsy is now buried next to her. It is a very small cemetery and hard to get to.

There were little pinwheel things stuck next to it, making it clear it is a child's grave.

John Ramsey had a few dates with Beth Holloway but I don't know if that ever developed into anything.

by Anonymousreply 8August 18, 2010 12:18 AM

And switching from "we" to "I" to "we" again.%0D %0D Attache is spelled correctly but not business?

by Anonymousreply 9August 18, 2010 12:20 AM


My favorite part of the letter.

This is why I always thought Burke did it.

by Anonymousreply 10August 18, 2010 12:21 AM

The weird thing is that the semen on JonBenet's clothes did not match genetically with the male Ramseys. That was what eventually cleared the Ramseys with the police when Patsy was still alive.

And the "Victory" comment and mentions of beheading JonBenet make it very unlikely someone accidentally killed the little girl and Patsy covered it up with the note later: you just wouldn't write that if it were an accident and you were trying desperately to cover it up.

Still, only Patsy and John and very close friends knew that John Ramsey had recently been given at Christmas a $118K bonus (exactly), which is the figure the note mentions.

So the whole thing has never made sense.

by Anonymousreply 11August 18, 2010 12:26 AM

Anyone in his company's accounting department might have known the exact details of John's bonus.

by Anonymousreply 12August 18, 2010 1:20 AM

It wasn't semen in her underpants, just unidentified DNA. It was such a miniscule amount that it may mean nothing to the case but the fact it was there throws doubt into the case.

by Anonymousreply 13August 18, 2010 1:44 AM

In fact, they said the bit of DNA could have come from a factory worker during the manufacturing of the underwear.

by Anonymousreply 14August 18, 2010 1:54 AM

What was the determination on the handwriting analysis?

by Anonymousreply 15August 18, 2010 2:00 AM

The "and hence" thing is what has made me suspicious. Patsy wrote an x-mas newsletter where she wrote "and hence" in it. Hence is a weird word to use anyway.

by Anonymousreply 16August 18, 2010 2:06 AM

I thought it was probable that it was Patsy. And they found the notebook, still in the house, that she wrote it on, with the indentations of the writing still on the top page. How the parents ever got off amazes me.

Stupid cops.

You know, I remember, way back when, watching television and they said they were taking OJ's blood to do a DNA match. I told a friend they better have that blood watched every second by a guard on camera. My God, the stupid detective put it in his car and left it there for hours, then delivered it by himself to the lab.

Morons. But then, how many smart people want to be cops?

by Anonymousreply 17August 18, 2010 2:06 AM

Being a female in that Ramsey family is a death curse. Literally. Oldest daughter died in a car accident, JonBenet was murdered, Patsy died of cancer.

by Anonymousreply 18August 18, 2010 2:07 AM

Is it true they tried to fly to Atlanta within 30 min that the body was found but the police wouldn't let them?%0D or just rumor?%0D %0D Because if so, guilty.

by Anonymousreply 19August 18, 2010 2:07 AM

[quote]We do respect your bussiness [sic] but not the country that it serves. Use that good southern common sense of yours. Victory!

All of those lines sound very conservative and fundie--and very Patsy.

by Anonymousreply 20August 18, 2010 2:11 AM

It seems clear Burke was involved somehow. From Wikipedia:

"Autopsy also revealed that JonBen%C3%83%C2%A9t had eaten pineapple only a few hours before the murder.[5] Photographs of the home, taken the day JonBen%C3%83%C2%A9t's body was found, show a bowl of pineapple on the kitchen table with a spoon in it,[5] and police reported finding Patsy's and JonBenet's nine-year-old brother Burke Ramsey's fingerprints on it.[6] However, both Patsy and John claim not to remember putting this bowl on the table or feeding pineapple to JonBen%C3%83%C2%A9t.[5][6] (The Ramseys had always maintained that Burke had slept through the entire episode, until awakened several hours after the police arrived.)"

On the other hand, even a precocious nine year old couldn't come up with that letter. So if he was involved in the murder, there was someone else working with the boy.

by Anonymousreply 21August 18, 2010 2:11 AM

After I read Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, I decided the neighbor who was their friend and always around, who helped look for her, etc, lived across the street I think, anyway, I think he did it. I think she was sexually molested and killed because she knew who was molesting her. %0D %0D I don't think her immediate family had anything to do with it. They were just stupid. I do however, think there were some odd things going on in that house. That little girl had serious psychological issues, and it didn't all stem from her beauty pageant activities.

by Anonymousreply 22August 18, 2010 2:12 AM

"A Mother Gone Bad." Convincing reading as to the parents' guilt.%0D %0D The psychology is all wrong for an outsider. E.g., hang around AFTER murdering JB in order to write a tome of a "ransom letter" on Patsy's tablet, including a draft copy! E.g., drawing a heart in JB's palm. E.g., fashioning a garrotte from the art supplies of Patsy.

by Anonymousreply 23August 18, 2010 2:18 AM

I think those damned beauty pageant photos paint a pretty clear picture of Patsy having Narcissistic Personality Disorder (and hence, as Patsy would put it, having no conscience.)

by Anonymousreply 24August 18, 2010 2:22 AM

That penmanship metal was MINE. See how nicely I wrote the ransom note ??

by Anonymousreply 25August 18, 2010 2:23 AM

There's an online encyclopedia devoted to the case. Exhaustive but fascinating analysis.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 26August 18, 2010 2:25 AM

[quote]That little girl had serious psychological issues, and it didn't all stem from her beauty pageant activities.

Tell us more about those psych issues.

by Anonymousreply 27August 18, 2010 2:26 AM

Re the ending of the ransom note: It is a very common phrase in sailboat racing. When there is a win they refer to it as Victory, and the SBTC stands for "Signed by the Captain."

by Anonymousreply 28August 18, 2010 2:28 AM

Yeah having a psychopathic mother will give you a few "psychological issues." The poor little girl was only 6 so I hope nobody's blaming the victim.

by Anonymousreply 29August 18, 2010 2:30 AM

[The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them.]%0D %0D Patty's subconscious referring to the two men in the house -- her husband and Burke? Whether or not Burke knew or slept through the murder and much of the aftermath, Patty was thinking about the rest of her immediate family hating her. %0D %0D "Watching over" implies looking after and being protective. Patty was also already imagining Jon Benet being in heaven or watched over by angels or something of that sort.%0D %0D %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 30August 18, 2010 2:31 AM

metal = medal

by Anonymousreply 31August 18, 2010 2:36 AM

r7, because the "ransom letter" is replete with allusions to battling a cancer diagnosis, as Patsy was ("99% chance of....").

by Anonymousreply 32August 18, 2010 2:36 AM

I knew someone who lived in Boulder at the time of JonBenet's murder and he said that everyone in Boulder believed the parents were the ones responsible for her death.

by Anonymousreply 33August 18, 2010 2:42 AM

r28: Patsy's favorite Bible phrase was "Saved By The Cross". As in: Victory. SBTC.%0D %0D "Two gentlemen"? What kind of killer, besides a genteel Southern one, would write "gentlemen"?!%0D %0D JB not only had enuresis; she had begun smearing walls with feces. Do the math.%0D %0D %0D %0D %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 34August 18, 2010 2:45 AM

I generally eschew convictions based on TV clips, but I was really unsettled by maybe it was the first interview the Ramseys sat down for, the way Patsy said, "I loved that little girl." It just didn't seem like what a mother would say. It was strangely removed from what I imagine somebody would say naturally, "My daughter was my life, I am bereft." This seemed more like, "Nice kid, horrible what happened to her, huh?"

by Anonymousreply 35August 18, 2010 2:54 AM

Patsy was never cleared as being the one who wrote the ransom note.

Has anyone seen the autopsy photos of JonBenet? They really are disturbing.

by Anonymousreply 36August 18, 2010 2:57 AM

r35, Patsy said, "I loved that little girl, with the whole of my heart."%0D %0D What does that sound like to your ear?%0D %0D Yes: "hole in my heart." The void that enabled Patsy to kill.

by Anonymousreply 37August 18, 2010 3:02 AM

What does smearing feces on the wall imply? I have a almost-5 year old niece & there's no way I could see her doing that...

by Anonymousreply 38August 18, 2010 3:22 AM

None of that changes the fact that "Dr" Laura is a cunt. That word, foul as it is, was practically invented for her! Her picture should be next to "cunt" in the dictionary! It's not a controversial opinion. The Sun rises in the East and sets in the West. "Dr" Laura is a cunt. If it doesn't apply to her then WHO, for God's sake, does it apply to?! Either wipe that word out of all human memory or admit that "Dr" Laura Schlessinger is, in fact, a cunt.

by Anonymousreply 39August 18, 2010 3:24 AM

Their grammar is spot on (heavy in the polyglot community) but they misspelled "bussiness", which is a personal "error" of a person who does speak the language fluently. From the way it's written, it's very American, definitely not one of the European nations, African nations or Asian with a heavy UK British influence. I'm calling bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 40August 18, 2010 3:24 AM

This is a case of demonic possession although no one wants to admit it. This doesn't mean that there are demons or the devil. It just mean that Patsy probably had a form of disassociative personality disorder. My guess is that the she was jealous of her husband's love for the daughter - perhaps interpreting it in sexual terms. One of her personalities - long dormant if ever overtly present - essentially hijacked Patsy's body and mind. That persona had different penmanship, a different vocabulary and different grammar. Patsy passed a polygraph because "she" did not do it in her own mind. But physically she did. What we once called possession, we now call schizophrenia or DPD.

by Anonymousreply 41August 18, 2010 3:25 AM

That she was "acting out" because of some kind of abuse?

by Anonymousreply 42August 18, 2010 3:25 AM

I never really understand how people manage to post in the wrong threads.

by Anonymousreply 43August 18, 2010 3:27 AM

This was all covered in a Lifetime movie, proving that Patsy did it:

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 44August 18, 2010 3:38 AM

R41: Interesting idea. I have always thought the same myself. Read the Harvard psychologist Martha Stout on the subject of DPD. Amazing study on what these people are like. For example, DPD have no memory of trauma and are astonished when they are reminded of things that they have done. They literally block out reality. %0D %0D The private detective who investigated the case recently died, and he cleared the family. He maintained it was an intruder--could be, but there are so many holes in the Ramsey alibi.

by Anonymousreply 45August 18, 2010 3:39 AM

r43, it's just the troll who cuts and pastes random Qwhip posts into unrelated DL threads. I assume she's desperate for attention because the we've been ignoring her.

by Anonymousreply 46August 18, 2010 3:40 AM

[quote]Use that good southern common sense of yours.%0D %0D I have read that phrase was often said to Jon Ramsey by Patsy. Suspicious that it is in the ransom letter!%0D %0D Also the exact amount of $118,000.%0D %0D %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 47August 18, 2010 3:41 AM

[quote]And they found the notebook, still in the house, that she wrote it on, with the indentations of the writing still on the top page.

That doesn't mean she wrote it, of course.

If someone came into the house then they could have written it on that pad of paper.

by Anonymousreply 48August 18, 2010 3:43 AM

Hey r. 41, I'm no demon! I'm the fun one! That little girl was just too uppity and had to go. Reminds me of that Dorian Lord bitch!

by Anonymousreply 49August 18, 2010 3:50 AM

This cop was sure that Ramseys were innocent.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 50August 18, 2010 4:01 AM

Your mother sucks cocks in hell!

by Anonymousreply 51August 18, 2010 4:04 AM

Who would break into someone's house, kill their daughter, then write a long note (or 2) on their notebook and hope that someone didn't hear and catch them? I don't care how big the house was.

And don't even get me started on that fucking idiot Carr who wrongly confessed!

by Anonymousreply 52August 18, 2010 4:06 AM

Does anyone hold much stock in the opinion of a member of the Boulder PD? Talk about a cock-up of epic proportions.

by Anonymousreply 53August 18, 2010 4:09 AM

At the bottom of this link it says dark animal hair (from a beaver!) was found on the duct tape and on Jonbenet's hands. Also, they never found the roll/source of black duct tape in the house.

Also, a pubic hair was found on the blanket that covered her body that was not linked to the Ramsey's and is the main reason no one in family was ever charged. (Hmmmm, however could have been planted by the perp).

A person crazy enough to do that to a 6 yr old is crazy enough to sit there in the middle of the night & write a note. Scary shit.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 54August 18, 2010 4:13 AM

But if JonBenet's body was in the basement and it was just a matter of time before it was found, why would Patsy Ramsay write the ransom note? That would only make sense if they removed the body and then either hoped it was never found or, when it was found, they could hope people thought the kidnappers had garrotted her. But they made no attempt to hide the body.

by Anonymousreply 55August 18, 2010 4:13 AM

why do children smear feces on the walls? very unusual.

by Anonymousreply 56August 18, 2010 4:14 AM

Maybe Patsy's plan was to hide the body but the husband whatever his name is nixed the idea or Burke found the body before they could dispose of it.

by Anonymousreply 57August 18, 2010 4:19 AM

Did any neighbors see lights on inside late at night if they were panicking and still up thinking of a plan or were the lights off waiting for Santa?

by Anonymousreply 58August 18, 2010 4:24 AM

I'll bet he did it and she was in charge of the cover up, such would have been her southern martyr complex. He's clearly unhinged: running for Congress; interfering with the Holloways....chatting up John Mark Karr.... They probably had one of those S&M type relationships where they are always testing each other's loyalty with an ever escalating commitment.%0D

by Anonymousreply 59August 18, 2010 4:36 AM

That morning Patsy was wearing the same heavy makeup that she had worn to the neighbor's cocktail party the evening before. That is pretty good evidence that she was awake all through the night. %0D %0D The neighbor/soon-to-be former friend who accompanied John Ramsey into the basement when he discovered the body later said he got the distinct feeling that John pointed out an old crack in the basement window for the distinct purpose of planting the idea that an intruder had been down there. Shortly afterward John Ramsey discovered the body and immediately destroyed the crime scene by carying JonBenet upstairs. %0D %0D Patsy flung herself over the dead girl but her shrieks and sobs were not accompanied by actual tears. Meanwhile her husband attempted to book a private flight to Atlanta with the idea of leaving Boulder with Patsey and Burke that very day. He was stopped from fleeing the state by order of the astonished police.%0D %0D Although the ransom note prepared them for a phone call between eight and ten a.m., when ten a.m. came and went neither John nor Patsy appeared to notice that they had failed to receive the expected. Instead of acting desperate to hear further instructions, their behavior suggested that they knew all along that no one would be phoning back. %0D %0D Parents of murdered children are usually so eager to assist the police that the police have to kindly tell them to back off. The Ramseys did everything in their power to obstruct the investigation. You figure it out. %0D

by Anonymousreply 60August 18, 2010 4:42 AM

Why would kidnappers write a long, rambling ransom note after they'd already killed her and left her body in the basement? And if they wrote it before killing her, why would they stop to molest her while still in the house? That makes even less sense than Patsy writing the note.

And the duct tape could easily have been lost/tossed since the cops fucked up the investigation so badly.

by Anonymousreply 61August 18, 2010 4:49 AM

[quote]Patsy flung herself over the dead girl but her shrieks and sobs were not accompanied by actual tears.%0D %0D One of the officers present observed Patsy seemingly racked with grief on a couch, emitting keening and sobbing sounds yet peering at him through her fingers as she covered her non-tear stained face as if to monitor the effect she was creating.%0D %0D Regardless of her guilt or otherwise she seemed a bizarre and unsympathetic woman. Patsy came across as nutty in her first appearance on CNN-- I know people sometimes deal with trauma and loss in unusual ways but her affect and general presentation were strikingly 'off'.

by Anonymousreply 62August 18, 2010 5:04 AM

The fact the Ramseys were on CNN at all was odd. The reasons it got so much play were 1)Slow news day. It was New Year's Day and holidays are traditionally boring in a newsroom. But most of all, 2)the pageant video. That's what really made it explode as a media story. Typically, police or the family would release a photo or two of the dead child. The media went nuts over the video...and because the pageants were controversial in nature, it gave another angle to a bizarre, yet very tragic story. I was in the news media at the time, and always felt very badly when JonBenet became a punchline. People forgot the fact there was a dead child and made fun of her in the newsroom. Truly appalling.

by Anonymousreply 63August 18, 2010 5:17 AM

How did John Ramsey 'chat up' that loon John Mark Karr?

by Anonymousreply 64August 18, 2010 5:41 AM

I think the neighbor did it, and I believe he was sexually obssessed with Jon Benet. I said she had psychological issues not to "blame the victim" at all, but to say that something else was happening to her. %0D %0D A lot of people thought JB's behavior problems stemmed from all that pageant nonsense and a screwwed up mother. That's true. But it doesn't go far enough. %0D %0D Bed wetting, smearing feces on walls? I think she was being sexually abused on a regular basis. Maybe her mother suspected and blocked it out. Just like maybe mother was told the pageant stuff was unhealthy and deliberately ignored signs and symptons of her daughter's problems.%0D %0D That guy had access to the house, access to Jon Benet, and he was there the night she was killed. Then he "helps" find her? Didn't they hide her Christmas gift at his house? A bike or something?

by Anonymousreply 65August 18, 2010 11:44 AM

Absolutely lovely that we live in a country where not only are family members suspects, as they should be, but they stand tried and convicted in the public's eye.

We've become a nation of Nancy Graces.

by Anonymousreply 66August 18, 2010 12:06 PM

"why do children smear feces on the walls? very unusual."%0D %0D Not so unusual. Babies and toddlers are curious, and feces are just some kind of weird stuff to play with. But it can also be a sign of severe emotional disturbance. Temple Grandin remembers smearing feces around when she was a child. The real life "bubble boy" David Vetter smeared his feces around in bubble in rage at his hopeless, barren life.%0D %0D As for the JonBenet Ramsey case...well, that ransom note is probably the fakest one in creation. And the child was supposed to be kidnapped but was found in the basement. Doesn't kidnapping involve taking the victim AWAY from their home? It didn't make sense.%0D %0D The behavior of John and Patsy Ramsey was peculiar, to say the least. One person commented that before JonBenet's body was found their behavior was like that of people who have been informed of a DEATH, not a kidnapping. Even so, John Ramsey was strangely unemotional, while Patsy was emotional enough for the both of them, carrying on in a hysterical frenzy.%0D %0D For some reason they invited a group of friends and a clergyman over and provided snacks and refreshments for them. It contaminated the crime scene and seemed very odd. %0D %0D John Ramsey destroyed the crime scene by ripping the tape over JonBenet's mouth and hauling her upstairs. Shortly after finding out his daughter was dead, MURDERED, Ramsey informed the police that he had to catch a plane soon to attend to some business. Incredulous, the policeman he said that to told him NO, you can't do that, you have to stay here and cooperate with the investigators. He said basically, well, ok then. WEIRD.%0D %0D Obviously there was some kind of coverup involved in this case. And there%0D were too many clues pointing to the Ramsey family for them to be completely cleared. I don't think the case will ever be solved.

by Anonymousreply 67August 18, 2010 1:06 PM

[quote]Does anyone hold much stock in the opinion of a member of the Boulder PD? Talk about a cock-up of epic proportions.

Whenever the case pops up I'm reminded of an early police report describing the Ramseys as "credible millionaires". Wtf!

by Anonymousreply 68August 18, 2010 1:24 PM

In 2003, I had to take a polygraph test performed by the same FBI polygraph examiner that did the test on the Ramseys. Afterwards, I asked him about how the scoring system worked and he told me that anything above zero is considered passing and anything under zero is considered failing. I asked him what my score was and he said a 19 which put me at 99.9% telling the truth. He said Patsy Ramsey scored a 3.. barely passing, yet still a pass... but still. 3?

by Anonymousreply 69August 18, 2010 1:44 PM

Anyone interested in this story should read "My Sister, My Love" by Joyce Carol Oates. It's fiction, but obviously based on Ramsey family and a great read. Delves into the psychology of this kind of mother and effect it would have on the brother. One of the best books I've read in a long time.

by Anonymousreply 70August 18, 2010 2:02 PM

r38, see r42.%0D %0D Now ask yourself: What vision would make a heretofore loving mother, under the stress of deadly cancer and a very long Christmas day with an impending early flight, completely flip out in a violent (and accidentally murderous; perhaps intentionally in her sub-conscious) manner? Where was John? %0D %0D Another theory in keeping with the "stressed-out" one is a tired and fed-up mother once again having to clean a urine-soaked (or worse) bed, perpetrated (in Patsy's mind) by a wicked and stubborn little JB.%0D %0D In any case, I find the "Mom did it" arguments most persuasive.

by Anonymousreply 71August 18, 2010 2:52 PM

r40, "bussiness":%0D Perhaps Patsy's mind wanted to refer to not liking certain BUSSES = KISSES of John Ramsey. Writing in a distressed and panicked state after killing JB.%0D %0D Math lesson again.

by Anonymousreply 72August 18, 2010 2:56 PM

You're trying too hard, r72. Maybe Patsy just wasn't a great speller.

by Anonymousreply 73August 18, 2010 4:25 PM

What kind of garroting strangler who threatens to behead a small child would advise the adult male target of his kidnap plot to get plenty of rest for his own benefit?%0D %0D "We" are awfully chummy with John Ramsey for a supposed "small foreign faction." Speaking of which, John Ramsey was said to be a huge fan of Star Trek TNG which apparently made frequent references to "foreign factions." Patsy might have borrowed that curious phrase from her husband's favorite TV show when she wrote the ransom note.

by Anonymousreply 74August 18, 2010 7:09 PM

It just makes me sick that Patsy had semen ice cubes from some bum she sucked off in the freezer so that she could use them when she needed them to throw the cops off her trail. She was so cunning, with a t.


by Anonymousreply 75August 18, 2010 7:23 PM

When I was in the 6th grade there was some girl in the 8th grade who smeared feces all over one of the bathroom stalls. I'm sure she is in a Penitentiary by now.

by Anonymousreply 76August 18, 2010 7:30 PM

I watched STTNG religiously and I don't recall a lot of mentions of "foreign factions." The only things that turn up online for that phrase and Star Trek are people who claim it's a clue that proves John or Patsy wrote the note. Some say it was from STTNG, some say it was a reference to "First Contact", but I don't think the phrase makes sense in either context.%0D %0D "Foreign faction" sounds like 1970s terrorist lingo, the kind of stuff you'd hear in some made for TV movie about a plane hijacking. Why take the guessing to an unnecessary extreme?

by Anonymousreply 77August 18, 2010 7:31 PM

Please direct us to a credible link that describes semen being found on JonBenet's body, R75. I have read a great deal about this case but I have never seen it documented anywhere that there was any semen involved. %0D %0D You are obviously determined to push the idea that the Ramseys are innocent. Show us the evidence if you can.

by Anonymousreply 78August 18, 2010 7:34 PM

[quote]and made fun of her in the newsroom.

That is exactly how I picture newsrooms to be. Journos are the lowest of the low!

by Anonymousreply 79August 18, 2010 7:36 PM

One time, not long after the murder, I turned around to exchange the peace at St John's Episcopal Cathedral in Denver and there were John & Patsy Ramsey. I didn't realize it until later when someone who recognized them asked me how they behaved. I asked a priest who was there that day and she said that wether they committed the crime or not they needed to be there.

by Anonymousreply 80August 18, 2010 7:43 PM

Mommy killed her after finding out that Daddy or the brother or both were sexually abusing her. The end.

by Anonymousreply 81August 18, 2010 7:57 PM

Then there's "The Recently Deflowered Girl," an etiquette book for the recently deflowered.

by Anonymousreply 82August 18, 2010 7:59 PM

I didn't follow this closely the first time around, but if I were on a jury I would have trouble with the beaver fur on the duct tape.

WTF is the theory behind that?

by Anonymousreply 83August 18, 2010 8:03 PM

No kidding, r79. I was tagged as "not a team player" because I found no humor in laughing at a murdered 6-year-old child. I hope whomever did this is caught one day. It is truly a tragic, awful case and on a personal level, was life-changing about not wanting to be in a profession that finds glee in the worst of humanity.

by Anonymousreply 84August 18, 2010 8:07 PM

Was there forensic evidence that she was being molested?

by Anonymousreply 85August 18, 2010 8:08 PM

Nothing says what the DNA evidence in the underwear was. Anyone have a link to the sources that claim it was just left there by the clothing manufacturer?

by Anonymousreply 86August 18, 2010 8:15 PM

This crime journalist thinks it was a child pornography/pedophilia ring, and that the father was involved in a cover-up, though neither parents killed her.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 87August 18, 2010 8:28 PM

I still don't understand the motive.

If I remember correctly, JB sustained a massive head wound, then was strangled approximately one hour later.

Let's assume that Patsey was upset about the bedwetting and was abusive to JB - overly so, which resulted in accidental death. Or Burke accidentally killed her. Why not just call the police and say it was an accident?? Why write that ransom note?? WHY the cover up???

There's no doubt in my mind the mother wrote the note. I just can't figure out why she wasn't comfortable just calling the police and saying there had been a terrible accident.

by Anonymousreply 88August 18, 2010 8:32 PM

[quote]Absolutely lovely that we live in a country where not only are family members suspects, as they should be, but they stand tried and convicted in the public's eye.%0D %0D R66, in child murder cases family members are statistically much more likely to be the perpetrators than strangers, and the Ramseys did themselves no favors by their conduct.

by Anonymousreply 89August 18, 2010 8:56 PM

I think this thread is very interesting and I like reading others theories because honestly, I don't know who is to blame in this mess. But, could I respectfully make one suggestion? If you are going to put out there something you read, could you please provide a link to back up your statement? Lots of times things are posted in a way which comes across as fact, when in reality, it's something that was heard and possibly, not remembered correctly. I hope I do not sound like a school marm but as I said up top, I really think this thread is a very good one and I like hearing new facts, hopefully ones which will help me come to a conclusion in my mind about what happened, I'd just like to base my opinion on facts, as much as they can be, that have been shown to be true.

by Anonymousreply 90August 18, 2010 9:20 PM

"Let's assume that Patsey was upset about the bedwetting and was abusive to JB - overly so, which resulted in accidental death. Or Burke accidentally killed her. Why not just call the police and say it was an accident?? Why write that ransom note?? WHY the cover up???"%0D %0D Maybe because those things might have led to prosecution. If JBR had tripped on the stairs or hit head head on the windowsill while running, Patsy would likely have called the police and said there was an accident. But if JB sustained the head injury because Patsy or Burke hit her, they'd certainly be charged with something close to manslaughter.

by Anonymousreply 91August 18, 2010 9:30 PM

If the head wound was all JB had, it would have been so much easier to fake her falling down the stairs than leave her for an hour, strangle her, then write a note about beheading. All while not getting your DNA on her, but leaving a strange pubic hair and unaccounted-for DNA in her underwear.%0D %0D My crazy pet theory is that someone else killed JB, and Patsy being a drama queen nutball, thought it was either Burke or John and started in with the bad coverup.

by Anonymousreply 92August 18, 2010 9:39 PM

I agree R91, up to a point. If she was accidently killed by her mother,or if she were accidentally killed by her brother,they could have made it look like she did fall down the stairs or something.%0D %0D But instead they concoct this elaborate mess of a kidnapping, a ransom note, and "find her" in the cellar with a garrot.%0D %0D I am prepared to believe the kid died accidentally, OK. I am also prepared to believe she could have been abused by someone, and not necessarily sexually. Maybe her brother resented all the attention she got so he bullied and tormented and teased her when he could.%0D %0D The whole damned thing is very bizarre. Someone in that family, or someone very close to the family did it, and/or knows exactly what happened.

by Anonymousreply 93August 18, 2010 9:50 PM

I agree with R70, great book.%0D %0D %0D For what it's worth, beaver hair is used quite often in making a paint brush. It could have been picked up on the paint brush used to kill JBR, the killers clothing, or whatever when they got the paint brush.

by Anonymousreply 94August 18, 2010 10:31 PM

Did they change Burke's name? How can he go through life as Burke Ramsey?

Or was that Burke Benet Ramsey?

by Anonymousreply 95August 19, 2010 12:24 AM

Even though it sounds crazy, I think that the colorado pedophile ring theory might be true. Remember all those horrible stories of adults getting caught participating in child sex rings earlier this year (including a Duke administrator)? I think that one of the parents 'rented' out JonBenet for a photography session, and it went bad. Would explain a lot.

by Anonymousreply 96August 19, 2010 12:45 AM

Photography session gone bad? No. How would it go that bad? The child's skull was cracked and she was garroted. This was intentional.

by Anonymousreply 97August 19, 2010 4:07 AM

I never believe these "rings" and underground whatever theories. What I remember about the Duke guy was it was a chatroom and he was goaded by an undercover cop into talking about something that, no doubt, the Duke guy thought was the other guy's fantasy. There was no ring. There was no child abuse. But the guy is tarred for life.

I think one of the problems with the Ramsey family-wide cover up is that if the boy were responsible for any of it, or knows who was, there is no way he could keep it secret. Remember balloon boy puking on the Today Show under the pressure of holding that lie for like two days?

by Anonymousreply 98August 19, 2010 5:03 AM

at r54's link, it said wood chippings from the paintbrush handle were found on her hymen (technically a virgin I believe). So she was sexually assaulted..but by the brush. Now in a cover up...what parent would go that far?? Ugh!

Side note: a few years ago I randomly met a woman who is a handwriting expert & I asked about the Ramsey note. She said she had seen John Ramsey's writing sample and said she sure wouldn't want to be stuck in a dark alley with him - his handwriting apparently showed he could be brutal.

by Anonymousreply 99August 19, 2010 6:14 AM

R56, when children who have been toilet trained regress and begin wetting and soiling themselves again, it is often a sign that something is very wrong. When you rule out a medical cause, there are several possible psychological causes. Here's a little explanation.

"A person with voluntary encopresis has control over when and where bowel movements occur and chooses to have them in inappropriate places. Constipation is not a factor, and the feces is usually a normal consistency. Often feces is smeared in an obvious place, although sometimes it is hidden around the house. The APA classifies voluntary encopresis as encopresis without constipation and overflow incontinence.

In young children, voluntary encopresis may represent a power struggle between the child and the caregiver doing the toilet training. In older children, voluntary encopresis is often associated with oppositional defiant disorder (ODD), conduct disorder , sexual abuse , or high levels of psychological stressors."

by Anonymousreply 100August 19, 2010 7:38 AM

JonBenet was a chronic bedwetter. She also had persistent vaginal rashes that the family doctor surmised were from "bubble bath." She also had a fetish about having an adult wipe her after she used the toilet.%0D %0D All of this behavior would indicate that she was being sexually molested.

by Anonymousreply 101August 19, 2010 12:56 PM

Hello, "Courage to Heal Workbook" reader at r101, all of this behavior could possibly indicate that she was being sexually molested.

by Anonymousreply 102August 19, 2010 2:10 PM

Who did Joyce Carol Oates make out to be the murderer in the fictional account?

by Anonymousreply 103August 20, 2010 3:21 AM

Speaking of the handwriting samples, why did Patsy give so many? After 5-6 handwriting samples, surely they could have linked her with the note if she wrote it.%0D

by Anonymousreply 104August 20, 2010 5:39 AM

[quote]Hello, "Courage to Heal Workbook" reader at [R101], all of this behavior could possibly indicate that she was being sexually molested.

Actually, it is.

by Anonymousreply 105August 20, 2010 5:49 AM

The TV miniseries about the event, "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" is a camp classic--for some insane reason they use what is completely obviously a child-sized doll for JonBenet's corpse, and its arms stick straight out when John Ramsey carries it upstairs howling in horror at the discovery scene (starting at :56 into the clip). Ronnie Cox doesn't even pretend that it's as heavy as a real child--he carries it like one would a light plastic doll.

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by Anonymousreply 106August 20, 2010 6:10 AM

R104, Patsy also changed her handwriting style. One of the JonBenet sites online includes samples of Patsy's writing before and after the murder investigation; Patsy appears to have modified the way she wrote several letters so that they no longer matched those used in the ransom note.

by Anonymousreply 107August 20, 2010 6:21 AM

To believe the Ramseys innocent, you more or less have to believe Obama was born in Kenya. That's the level of these people.%0D

by Anonymousreply 108August 20, 2010 6:45 AM

If you ever want to be really creeped out, go to youtube and look at the tributes people have made to JonBenet showing footage of her in her pageants--and the comments that read, "Oh she's perfect! She's one of heaven's sweetest angels!"

by Anonymousreply 109August 20, 2010 6:53 AM

Here is a rumor I heard right after the murder, perhaps one of you did also. %0D %0D John Ramsey's secretary claimed to have overheard a phone conversation between John and Patsy. From the convo, the sec'y deduced that Patsy found John molesting JB and attempted to bash John's head in. Patsy missed, hitting JB.%0D %0D Anyone else remember this?

by Anonymousreply 110August 20, 2010 6:55 AM

How exactly did that conversation go R110? Patsy: Look, don't think you'll get lucky twice. I might have missed the first time I tried to hit you. You know, after I found you molesting Jon Benet and all, but I won't make that mistake twice! John: Okey-dokey honey. Too bad you killed Jon Benet when you missed though. Patsy: Well, yeah, that was unfortunate. Are you sure your secretary can't hear this conversation? John: Positive.

by Anonymousreply 111August 20, 2010 7:06 AM

At the link below you can read articles from the exhaustive 'JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia' regarding the ransom note, which someone described as the [italic]War and Peace[/italic] of ransom notes.%0D %0D If you click on 'Patsy Ramsey as RN writer' on the page it takes you to a separate lengthy discussion of Patsy, the ransom note, and the conclusions from various experts involved in the case regarding her possible ID as the author of the note including discussion of the various handwriting analyses as well as profilers' analyses of the note's contents.

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by Anonymousreply 112August 20, 2010 7:09 AM

I always thought JonBenet committed suicide and framed her parents because she hated them. Think about it. Burke hates her, her mom won't leave her alone, she's got years of nothing but more bedwettings, heavy makeup, and offkey renditions of "I'm a Cowboy Sweetheart" ahead of her, and the only pleasure in her entire life is the few fucking slices of pineapple her parents begrudge her. So she came up with a clever plan. She forges the note, chokes herself to death with the piece of twine and in the process makes it look like her parents or Burke did it.

by Anonymousreply 113August 20, 2010 7:10 AM

Oh man, thank you for the link, R106. Hilarious!

by Anonymousreply 114August 20, 2010 8:00 AM

Poor JonBenet was in full rigor mortis when found? Horrifying!

by Anonymousreply 115August 20, 2010 9:39 AM

[quote]JonBenet was a chronic bedwetter. She also had persistent vaginal rashes that the family doctor surmised were from "bubble bath." She also had a fetish about having an adult wipe her after she used the toilet.

[quote]All of this behavior would indicate that she was being sexually molested.

Are these really signs of sexual abuse? Because my four year old niece exhibits these behaviours and also gets rashes.

by Anonymousreply 116August 20, 2010 1:17 PM

They COULD be signs. Not all people who have these symptoms were molested and not everybody who was molested exhibits these signs.

by Anonymousreply 117August 20, 2010 8:37 PM

I just keep laughing at the giant doll as the dead JonBenet at the link at r106! LOL--they made NO effort to disguise it!

by Anonymousreply 118August 20, 2010 8:41 PM

I love R39 more than I could POSSIBLY say.

by Anonymousreply 119August 20, 2010 8:50 PM

lol at r106 your so right.%0D %0D The doll lol.

by Anonymousreply 120August 20, 2010 10:26 PM

damn you all. I went to the JB link and trolled through it for 90 minutes.

by Anonymousreply 121August 21, 2010 1:49 AM

Fuck you, R90. No, seriously.

by Anonymousreply 122August 21, 2010 2:17 AM

I think Patsy did it, accidentally. She and Jon-Benet were having one of their power struggles (probably centering around bed-wetting). Patsy either struck her and knocked her into something, or Jon-Benet fell trying to get away, and hit her head. This could have taken place in the bathroom, a small confined area with lots of hard porcelain surfaces. %0D %0D Patsy freaks, and she and John for some insane reason decide it's better to make this look like something other than domestic violence. %0D An adult-child confrontation turned tragic, and the parents could not bear to have their less-than-perfect life exposed. Better to be perceived as victims than perpetrators.

by Anonymousreply 123August 21, 2010 2:17 AM

I must register a curse on r112. I finally bookmarked the site he posted after spending way too much time there at one go. It will probably be my new nutcase site. Damn you 112.

by Anonymousreply 124August 21, 2010 3:08 AM

Thank you, Jessica Fletcher at R123. How're things in Cabot Cove?

by Anonymousreply 125August 21, 2010 3:47 AM

Interesting site, R102. I notice one theory stated "Donald Pugh's analysis leads him to conclude that a middle-aged female individual in law enforcement wrote the RN."

Which is REALLY REALLY odd. If the Ramsey's had some kind of law enforcement connection, it would explain a lot, though.

I just can't get over this cover-up. You'd think most people who wanted to make a head injury victim look like an accident would fake a fall, not garotte them and then write a stupid ransom note.

by Anonymousreply 126August 21, 2010 4:25 AM

R123, I always thought Patsy did it albeit accidentally (in a fit of rage over JonBenet's toileting issues, probably) until I read about the force required to inflict the head wound JonBenet sustained. Then I began to doubt.%0D %0D The autopsy indicated the possibility of chronic sexual abuse as well as a possible sexual assault JonBenet suffered at or near the time of death; that too would seem to implicate someone else apart from Patsy.%0D %0D I have yet to find a credible theory of this crime that makes complete sense. The FBI concluded that the crime scene was staged. What sort of depraved perpetrator could come up with the scenario of garrotting a six-year-old child? The evidence appears to point to someone in the family being involved on some level-- it seems reasonably certain to me that Patsy composed the bizarre fake ransom note-- but the brutality of the murder was extreme and it's difficult to imagine someone capable of committing such a crime not acting out in other violent fucked up ways that would attract the attention of law enforcement in other contexts.%0D %0D The epic ransom note is the most damning piece of evidence, IMO. It alone is so incriminating that it would seem to firmly exclude the possibility of an intruder being responsible for JonBenet's murder.

by Anonymousreply 127August 21, 2010 4:26 AM

Could someone explain to me why the FBI was not brought in at the beginning? That would have eradicated the petty squabblings between the DA's office and the Boulder police which hampered the investigation. Wouldn't the fact of a ransom note--even though it was obviously fake--have made the case a kidnapping case, and brought in the Feds?

I am so curious as to where Burke Ramsey is now and what he thinks about the whole thing. He must be out of college by now--I'm sure he lives under a different name.

by Anonymousreply 128August 21, 2010 4:31 AM

R128, as far as I know state and local law enforcement are not subordinate to the FBI. For whatever reason the FBI did not take over the investigation, which is a pity as the local law enforcement seemed particularly inept.

by Anonymousreply 129August 21, 2010 4:42 AM

According to the trutv site, the autopsy does not support sexual abuse allegations.%0D %0D [quote]"From what is noted in the autopsy report, there is no evidence of injury to the anus, there is no evidence of injury to the skin around the vagina, the labia and there is no other indication of any healed scars in any of those areas. There is no other indication from the autopsy report at all that there is any other previous injuries that have healed in that particular area."

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by Anonymousreply 130August 21, 2010 4:44 AM

R125, however did that big stick get so far up your ass?

by Anonymousreply 131August 21, 2010 5:45 AM

I think R123 has it exactly right. %0D %0D No one would garrote a little girl when they could just as easily strangle her with their bare hands. Patsy didn't dare call for an ambulance because she knew the head wound would be fatal. She didn't want to go to prison. She didn't want to lose face "and hence" the overkill, the aborted phony kidnaping, the absurd failed attempt to write a realistic-sounding ransom note and the subsequent lack of cooperation with the authorities.

by Anonymousreply 132August 21, 2010 8:04 AM

I bought a bunch of dvds of old Miss America pageants. I love watching those things. I have all of them where Terry Meeuwsen (Miss America 1973) appears. After her year, she was hired for several to perform/hostess. I'm watching the 1977 pageant and guess who was Miss West Virginia? It was Patsy Ann Paugh (the future Mrs. Ramsey). I was thinking to myself, "Why does she look so familiar?"

None of this means anything. I just thought it was interesting.

by Anonymousreply 133August 21, 2010 9:42 AM

Where did you get the dvd's,I love old pageants.

by Anonymousreply 134August 21, 2010 9:56 AM

Tyler Perry is about to become a neighbor of John Ramsey. Tyler just bought a house in the same subdivision as John

by Anonymousreply 135August 21, 2010 10:24 AM

Avec Chateau?

by Anonymousreply 136August 21, 2010 10:32 AM

R134, he is on ioffer.

by Anonymousreply 137August 21, 2010 10:46 AM

We'll probably never know, but I pretty much agree with the possible scenario stated by R123. The family was tired from a party and was going to have to get up and take a trip first thing in the morning. If JonBenet was being stubborn or whiny and had a toileting incident (whether accidental or not), Patsy (convinced that the kid was aggravating her on purpose), dragged her to the bathroom, and in the process of cleaning her up may have struck or shoved her so that she fell and hit her head. %0D %0D Patsy wouldn't have wanted to confess to causing injury to JonBenet to an emergency room person (the family's standing in the community and so on). To me the whole rambling ransom note (written with her own pad and pen and supposedly spread out on the stairs for her to "discover" that morning) would be dramatically appealing to her. I don't think she ever got to bed that night, which would explain why she was wearing the clothes she had on the night befoe and had on full make-up when the police arrived.

by Anonymousreply 138August 21, 2010 11:42 AM

I still think their close friend and neighbor did it.

by Anonymousreply 139August 21, 2010 12:46 PM

Is this burke ramsey?

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by Anonymousreply 140August 21, 2010 1:24 PM

Recent photo of Burke on this page:

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by Anonymousreply 141August 21, 2010 10:17 PM

seems to me it was some lunatic intruder.

Some lunatic sees the girl at one of the pageants or in one of the parades, etc that the mom had her involved in.

Ramseys go out for day.

crazy intruder guy slips into the house with some ill-conceived plan of kidnapping her. he pokes around, finds the bonus stub for $118K, writes the note, and waits.

He snatches the girl, and something goes wrong, and he kills her.

I just don't think the parents wrote the note. They were intelligent people. Why create MORE evidence?

by Anonymousreply 142August 21, 2010 11:02 PM

142 - I agree, it just seems the only scenario that makes much sense.

The trouble is the media got hold of the story and spread a lot of disinformation early on. (Aided and abetted by an inexperienced police force). But that first wave of hysterical reporting is what has stuck in people's minds.

To me, once the same male DNA was found on two separate items of JonBenet's underwear the balance of evidence is towards an unknown male intruder having committed that crime.

by Anonymousreply 143August 21, 2010 11:27 PM

Bonus stub? Are you serious? If you get a bonus from your job at the level John Ramsey was at, his so called 'stub', wouldn't list it as bonus. It would look like a copy of his ck stub(because you know he had direct deposit) and would simply show as a payroll entry. It would not say bonus. This is bullshit. No intruder would be able to differentiate his 'bonus stub' from his regular payroll stub.

by Anonymousreply 144August 21, 2010 11:36 PM

I've always believed that Jon Benet hated her parents and staged her own death to destroy their lives. Therefore, I think Jon Benet wrote the ransom note herself.

by Anonymousreply 145August 21, 2010 11:38 PM

Despite all the conspiracy theories and alternate scenarios, the circumstantial evidence has NEVER pointed at ANYONE other than the Ramseys. Their behavior was odd and suspect from the very beginning. %0D %0D The Ramseys were all about appearance, status and social position, and it would all be destroyed in an instant of deadly domestic violence. This is not an Agatha Christie novel with a convoluted plot and numerous possible murderers. The simplest explanation is nearly always the correct one.

by Anonymousreply 146August 22, 2010 12:12 AM

[quote]not wanting to be in a profession that finds glee in the worst of humanity.

What a perfect description of journalism.

by Anonymousreply 147August 22, 2010 12:44 AM

[quote]To me, once the same male DNA was found on two separate items of JonBenet's underwear the balance of evidence is towards an unknown male intruder having committed that crime.%0D %0D To me, you're a moron. There is a mountain of evidence, hard and circumstantial that points toward the Ramseys.

by Anonymousreply 148August 22, 2010 5:24 AM

I wonder if the Ramsey boy knows what happened. How old was he at the time? Maybe he will tell what he knows one day.

by Anonymousreply 149August 22, 2010 5:33 AM

r144, what do you mean? i get a bonus check with a stub. company mails a check to my house, even though i have direct deposit.

why wouldn't it be likely in 1996?

by Anonymousreply 150August 22, 2010 5:37 AM

Is that picture of Burke today not the textbook definition of Major Gay Face?

by Anonymousreply 151August 22, 2010 5:42 AM

There really isn't any mountain of evidence 148. Trust me if there was they would have been indicted. There may be lots of suspicion and speculation, which is obly natural, but that's about it. Patsy Ramsey's handwriting exemplars were taken ( as well as those of others) and could not be matched to the ransom note.%0D %0D It is scary how easy it was for someone to have climbed down into the house through the rather large and easily accessible basement window and just waited. The layout of the house was such that the parents were up on a large third floor and the only other person home that night, Burke was all the way across the house behind a number of closed doors on the second floor with JonBenet. There is a back staircase just outside JonBenet's bedroom door that leads to the 1st floor and from there not far to the basement stairs where he body was eventually found.%0D %0D Her autopsy photo shows 3 identical marks on her body (on neck and back) that are believed to be stun gun marks. The garrote used to choke her was made from a broken off paint brush that had been in a painter's tote bucket just outside the basement room her body was found in. Paint chips from the same paint brush were found in her vaginal cavity. %0D %0D Despite all the jokes and the Beauty Pageant spectacle, this is just a very sad case. Seeing the autopsy photos drive home that she was just a little girl. I don't believe her parents did this to her.

by Anonymousreply 152August 22, 2010 5:57 AM

This is courtesy of my sister who is a total nut on this case.%0D %0D There was another incident of a home invasion on one of the girls who were in JBR's dancing or tap class or something like this. The man was dressed in black like a ninja and went into the wrong room. The mom or dad saw someone was there and the intruder fled. This was either a few weeks before or after the JBR death.%0D %0D There was a man who worked I think in photography. He told his friends he would be coming into some money about the first of the year and was really upbeat about it. After the first of the year he was very upset, quiet, moody and eventually supposedy took his life. In the pictures showing his suicide area the shoes that made the type of prints in the R's basement can be seen, also a taser and something else I can't recall. He had a friend who took off right before the suicide and my sis thinks they were in cahoots in the kidnapping, something went terribly wrong and then the driving force came back and killed the photo guy.%0D %0D I have no idea if any of this is true or not. I have never seen any of this on DL but then lots of perfectly normal things are never mentioned here.%0D %0D Also sis says that just at the end of the alleyway of R's residence is a kind of halfway house for ex-cons. Again have only heard this from her. She is on top of all this crap though.

by Anonymousreply 153August 22, 2010 6:01 AM

Well then maybe she can tell me how old the Ramsey boy was at the time of the murder, r153. If he was on the same floor as her, maybe he heard or saw something. i mean that must have been one big house if no one heard anything.

by Anonymousreply 154August 22, 2010 6:07 AM

R142, your scenario makes no sense. If the intruder was such a dolt that everything went wrong, then that intruder was too disorganized to get in and out without leaving evidence. %0D %0D As for the Ramseys being "intelligent people," that is more or less contradicted by their actual conduct. What did the note say? It said "No Police." What's the first thing they did? They had the police come in full view. The rich are not more intelligent than other people, they are just more ruthless and more lucky. %0D %0D As for the note, I worked in the technology business in Atlanta for a time and the ransom note sounds EXACTLY like several of my coworkers. I can picture them saying everything in that note.%0D %0D As for Boulder being shot through with child sex rings and mysterious similar incidents, it didn't happen. There were some sex offenders in Boulder, the kind that get picked up in police stings at rest stops, the kind that are accused of molesting family members. Boulder is a university town and sex crimes are not unknown. But strangers invading single family homes off campus to engage in sexual assault? No. Not in Boulder.%0D %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 155August 22, 2010 6:29 AM

It was Christmas, folks. Anyone who wants to rob a house would know that it is full of presents on Christmas. A millionaire who has just received a gigantic cash bonus would have been aware of that too. They would have set the alarm on that night if any night. They didn't, and having an unlocked window in the basement didn't seem to bother them. Sounds to me like they knew all the rotten people lived on the inside of the house, not the outside.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 156August 22, 2010 6:33 AM

Just about every expert has said that John Ramsey is most likely the author of the letter. They match perfectly!

The parents did it. Case closed.

by Anonymousreply 157August 22, 2010 6:52 AM

R153, I remember hearing about that guy who killed himself and the evidence pointing to him. It was in a documentary about the private investigator who "cleared" the Ramseys. The PI discovered the basement window evidence, overlooked by police.

by Anonymousreply 158August 22, 2010 6:52 AM

[quote]There was another incident of a home invasion on one of the girls who were in JBR's dancing or tap class or something like this. The man was dressed in black like a ninja and went into the wrong room. The mom or dad saw someone was there and the intruder fled. This was either a few weeks before or after the JBR death.%0D %0D R153, are you referring to the 'Amy' attacker? From a story that ran in 2005 on CBS's [italic]48 Hours[/italic]:%0D %0D 48 Hours has learned that JonBenet may have been targeted for murder long before she took the stage, possibly at a local dance studio called Dance West, where she took lessons.%0D %0D "To someone with that, you know, kind of a twisted mind, she may have looked like a really good target," says former Denver private investigator Pete Peterson. Less than a year after the murder of JonBenet, he was hired to work on another case in Boulder that had strange parallels to the Ramsey case.%0D %0D "There's a Dance West school where the victim of the assault in our case, the one that we investigated, and the Ramsey girl, both attended," says Peterson, who now believes Jon Benet was first targeted at that dance studio because of what happened to his client, just nine months after JonBenet was murdered.%0D %0D Like JonBenet, she took lessons at Dance West. And like JonBenet, another girl, who is identified as "Amy," was attacked and sexually assaulted at night in her own bedroom on Sept. 14, 1997.%0D %0D That night, Amy's father was out of town. After catching a movie, Amy and her mother returned home late. What they didn't know when they entered the house was that there was already an intruder inside.%0D %0D Amy's father, who asked that his identity be obscured, agreed to talk about what happened that night: "My feeling is he got into the house while they were out and hid inside the house, so he would have been in there for perhaps four to six hours, hiding."%0D %0D Before going to bed, Amy's mother turned on the burglar alarm. Around midnight, Amy woke up to find a man standing over her bed, his hand over her mouth. "She remembered the intruder addressing her by her name," says Peterson. "He said, 'I know who you are.' He repeated those things a few times, apparently. 'I'll knock you out. Shut up.'"%0D %0D Peterson says Amy's mother heard whispering, and proceeded through the doorway, and saw a person, who just brushed her aside and quickly made his escape by jumping out a second-floor window.%0D %0D "He was like a ghost," recalls Amy's father. "We couldn't figure out where he came from, or where he went."%0D %0D By the time the Boulder police arrived, the man was long gone. Because the intruder had gotten in and out of the house so easily, Amy's father began to think this wasn't the first time he had done something like this. %0D %0D "The first thing that occurred to us was that it was the parallel to the Ramsey case because it was exactly the same situation," says Amy's father, who even told the Boulder police about the Dance West studio connection to the Ramsey case. "I think someone, somewhere, drew a bead on her. Obviously had us under surveillance that we were not aware of."%0D %0D The studio has since gone out of business and been torn down, but photos show that there was a balcony overlooking the dance floor where parents and anyone else could come in and watch the children.%0D %0D But Amy's dad says that when he told the police detectives about the information he had, "they were completely uninterested in it."%0D %0D "They were very frustrated," says Peterson. "It was difficult to get them to do anything much less, you know, beyond taking a report."%0D %0D But not only did the Boulder police dismiss any link to the Ramsey case, they didn't even bother to use the mother's eyewitness description to make a composite sketch. That's when Amy's family hired Peterson. What he has uncovered in his investigation may not only solve Amy's case, but also help lead to the capture of JonBenet's killer.%0D %0D [article continues at link]

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by Anonymousreply 159August 22, 2010 6:58 AM

[quote]I just don't think the parents wrote the note. They were intelligent people. Why create MORE evidence?%0D %0D They created more evidence to draw attention away from the evidence that showed that JonBenet was killed or nearly killed by an accidental blow to the head.%0D %0D For intelligent people they certainly did their best to behave as if they were guilty. Innocent people at the site of a murder are often incensed to learn that they have to be considered suspects. Once it is explained to them that it is merely standard procedure that everyone known to have been present has to be cleared before the police can look for additional suspects, they usually calm down and cooperate. This is especially true of the innocent parents of murdered children. They will practically beg to take lie detector tests and all but join the police force to help sove the case. %0D %0D Not the Ramseys. Their attitude began and always remained, "How dare you even suspect us! We're so insulted that we won't assist you at all!" They knew this attitude hurt the investigation and made them look all the guiltier. Yet they stuck to their guns because they knew it would be even worse if they started answering questions.

by Anonymousreply 160August 22, 2010 7:37 AM

r151 Oui, d%C3%83%C2%A9finitivement

by Anonymousreply 161August 22, 2010 7:46 AM

[quote]They created more evidence to draw attention away from the evidence that showed that JonBenet was killed or nearly killed by an accidental blow to the head.%0D %0D Why would Patsy Ramsey create so much evidence pointing to [italic]herself[/italic], though? It's crazy... the fake ransom note was written on her note pad with her pen! One of Patsy's paintbrushes was used for the garotte. Fibers from Patsy's sweater were found at the crime scene (including on the duct tape placed on JonBenet's mouth), and she didn't change her clothes overnight. If Patsy didn't do it, she sure went out of her way to make it look as if she did.

by Anonymousreply 162August 22, 2010 7:53 AM

I'm certain who ever killed Jon Benet knew who she was. I am also sure that it wasn't her parents.%0D %0D Yes it very well could have been a burglar/intruder. But I think it was someone Jon Benet also knew. %0D %0D Here is what I don't get. If she suffered a blow to the head, where do they think it happened? If the basement scene where the body was found was staged, was she rendered unconscious and then brought to the basement? %0D %0D Was she killed in her room? was there any blood or evidence in her room? WHat did they find in her room? Was she already dead or simply unconcious when she was brought to the basement?

by Anonymousreply 163August 22, 2010 11:15 AM

[quote]No intruder would be able to differentiate his 'bonus stub' from his regular payroll stub.

He wouldn't need to. The Ramseys don't seem to be particularly intelligent, although I know some here disagree. I can see them leaving paystubs lying around, even throwing them out in the trash, or bragging loudly to neighbors.

That said, the note looks a lot like the sample(s) Patsy wrote with her left hand. There are only 2 reasons they would want to write a fake ransom note: To cover up the fact that one or both parent killed or, OR to cover up the fact that one or both parents were abusing their daughter.

by Anonymousreply 164August 22, 2010 11:30 AM

"Intruder Theory":%0D %0D No footprints in the snow. And the intruder would plan, but not enough to actually BRING a ransom note, but would hope to find tablet and pen there, and THEN compose a rough draft and final copy?%0D %0D And lie in wait, go up to JB's bedroom, grab her (remarkably keeping her silent, as well as his own movements), get her down to a secret basement room, do whatever that led to her death, do even more to stage the garrotting, GO BACK TO THE STAIRS---still silent as a mouse---to plant the "ransom" note, and then escape...how? Out the front door?%0D %0D Or maybe the intruder somehow lured JB downstairs---silently---with the pineapple later found in her stomach, which food Patsy denied feeding her daughter.%0D %0D The entire investigation was botched because the local cops viewed the Ramseys as celebrities, allowing them to have friends trample all over the house, to have JOHN HIMSELF go "looking for" JB, to determine the parameters for police interviews, etc.%0D %0D There was no intruder, no nutcase who somehow found a "pay stub" and used "$118,000" because, being a nutcase, he couldn't think of "$1 million". Not being such a nutcase, though, ever to be apprehended, interestingly. %0D %0D Their daughter was discovered murdered. By some "intruder", or, as the note said, "a small foreign faction", or "two gentlemen." At NO time did the Ramseys express, in anyone's earshot, shock and relief at how lucky BURKE was to be spared, or, indeed, the entire family. Or that perhaps the intruder/s WAS/WERE STILL IN THE HOUSE! %0D %0D Burke is a case-study, too (and yes, he goes by his name and is on Facebook, or was). We know his father told him "this doesn't concern you" (!!) while John thought he, John, was not still on the phone. Police are called, your parents' friends swarm the house, your sister is "missing", it's Christmas night, and you just go off in a car with nary a scare or care.%0D %0D And then there was the family's quick move to Atlanta. With a daughter's "uncaught murderer" perhaps back in Colorado. Why no human curiosity, let alone parental love, to stick around to pursue this case?%0D %0D I know people who cannot fathom Patsy as the killer, because of the "mother-child" element as well as the depravity. It's as though they've never heard of such killing before, never mind that it pre-dates Susan Smith by about...how old is the human species?

by Anonymousreply 165August 22, 2010 1:21 PM

I grew up through the whole Azaria Chamberlain saga here in Australia. These kind of true crime stories can take on a life of their own. Especially if the media starts profiting from creating suspicion. Once the Ramseys knew they'd been targeted and the police were feeding the yellow press they were very sensible to clam up and get the hell out. When the media storm hits it can as easily take out the innocent as the guilty.

by Anonymousreply 166August 22, 2010 2:19 PM

It's hard to believe the parents didn't do this murder. That note is obviously a misdirect. Why would an intruder take the time to write such a long note? Besides the letter is just silly. Even the family did not seem to be taking the note seriously themselves...... My theory: she was hit over the head with the flashlight in a fit of explosive rage (the flashlight being rubber did not break the skin so the severity of the wound was not visible from the outside). While en route to the basement it was realized that the child was still alive. The garrote was used to ensure she was dead.

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by Anonymousreply 167August 22, 2010 4:05 PM

Crime scene photos from the morning of the murder show there was no snow around the area where an intruder would have traversed to get to the basement window.%0D %0D There was very little snow at all on the property.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 168August 22, 2010 4:55 PM

[quote]Once the Ramseys knew they'd been targeted and the police were feeding the yellow press they were very sensible to clam up and get the hell out. %0D %0D They weren't "targeted." They had to be considered suspects as a matter of routine for the very logical reason that they were in the house where the crime occurred. For official suspects they were given extraordinary privileges and allowed to dictate the terms on which the investigation would be conducted. They clammed up from the very get-go, long before the "yellow press" was involved. %0D %0D They had wealth, political power and friendly media connections and that is why they were allowed to stage a phony murder and kidnaping and get away with it to this very day.

by Anonymousreply 169August 22, 2010 6:36 PM

I remember reading reports of John Ramsey being a regular at a Boulder adult bookstore.%0D %0D Have there been any prominent pshycics who have looked at the case?

by Anonymousreply 170August 22, 2010 7:39 PM

There was snow on the property that morning. It began melting throughout the day. The 1997 thing not only sounds unlikely, but it was almost a year later. Maybe the Ramseys gave her cash to make it up.%0D %0D As to why they would make up so much evidence pointing to themselves, it was Dec. 26. As parents of small children, they would have been up almost all night Dec. 24. With events in the house, Dec. 25 as well. That's 48 hours with no sleep.%0D It's also strange that given we just know JR received a gigantic bonus, we don't hear about big expensive presents being given Patsy, Burke, or Jon Benet. Maybe Patsy believed John was leaving her.%0D

by Anonymousreply 171August 22, 2010 11:49 PM

[quote]They had wealth, political power and friendly media connections and that is why they were allowed to stage a phony murder and kidnaping and get away with it to this very day.

It makes no sense to claim that an elaborate series of bought-off people, friendly politicians and media members were part of a cover up. One of these people, after having 14 years to think about the issue, would have stepped forward. Even if none of these people have a conscience, surely one of them would have realized that not only is Patsy dead, but they would make a lot of money off of telling their story.

by Anonymousreply 172August 23, 2010 12:01 AM

"Tyler Perry is about to become a neighbor of John Ramsey. Tyler just bought a house in the same subdivision as John"%0D %0D %0D %0D %0D Tyler Perry's Diary of a Mad White Man. Coming soon to a theater near you.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 173August 23, 2010 1:07 AM

Why would the kidnappers tell him what attache to bring to the bank if the delivery was to be made in a paper bag? Is that how they calculated what denominations to get, based on what would fit in a briefcase (less than 2,000 notes)? What hour, specifically did the Ramseys call the police? Compare that to the instructions in the note, I sense a disconnect. Why for that matter, who they expect him to do that work himself? It's obviously someone who cares about John. %0D %0D I just don't see how anyone can think an outsider did it.%0D

by Anonymousreply 174August 23, 2010 1:41 AM

On the contrary R172, that is the usual behavior in America. Remember Cullen Davis got away with murder. As did O.J. Simpson. "Money handles most people." What is really shocking is that it handles almost everyone. And not much money at that.%0D

by Anonymousreply 175August 23, 2010 1:43 AM

[quote]I remember reading reports of John Ramsey being a regular at a Boulder adult bookstore.

Those reports were never substantiated:

[quote]The basis of the new "evidence" was an allegation that John Ramsey had frequented a pornographic book shop in downtown Denver. Ramsey strenuously denied the allegation, stating that he had never been inside such a store in his life. The book shop in question was never identified and no evidence was ever tabled to support the theory. The extensive police search for pornographic material yielded nothing, but results of the search were never reported.

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by Anonymousreply 176August 23, 2010 2:06 AM

There is absolutely no way an intruder could have carried out such an elaborate murder while the family was inside the house. Someone would have heard something. It wasn't a gigantic mansion.%0D %0D Try to imagine breaking into an unfamiliar house at night, murdering a noisy child, and then navigating several floors IN THE DARK while carrying a body. And then after all that, he sits down and writes a lengthy ransom note??? Nothing was bumped or knocked over? Impossible. Also, wouldn't an intruder assume that the house would be filled with visiting family members on Christmas Eve? %0D %0D Occam's Razor, people.

by Anonymousreply 177August 23, 2010 3:05 AM

But Lindy did it, R166.

by Anonymousreply 178August 23, 2010 3:20 AM

So nobody knows how old the brother was at the time of the murder? Was he just and infant or close to JB's age?

by Anonymousreply 179August 23, 2010 3:26 AM

Burke was 9.

by Anonymousreply 180August 23, 2010 3:31 AM

I thought there were two boys in the family. Wasn't there an older boy? Where was he? It was Christmas. Was he around?

by Anonymousreply 181August 23, 2010 4:08 AM

What gets me is that they didn't find the body on the first search. ...if my child, or dog was missing, I'd look in every single room in the house.

by Anonymousreply 182August 23, 2010 4:19 AM

John Ramsey had 3 children from a previous marriage. The oldest child died in a car crash 4 or 5 years before JB and the other two (a son & a daughter) were in their 20s at the time of JB's murder. They were not in the house that night. No idea where they were.

by Anonymousreply 183August 23, 2010 4:28 AM

The parents were up very early to catch a private plane to their vacation home.%0D %0D The police were called shortly before 6 AM. %0D %0D The crime scene photos were taken before 10 AM.%0D %0D Though it had been cold the night before there was insufficiant precipitation. %0D %0D This is what a COOP weather reporting station less than a mile from the Ramsey home reported to the main Boulder weather station for the night of December 25 to December 26:%0D "This station recorded a trace of rain and snow from 5PM to 9PM (fog to mist to a few snow flakes) the evening of the 25th, a drop in temperature from 42 degrees at 4:50PM to 10 degrees at midnight as a front moved through the city."%0D %0D The crime scene photos taken the morning of the crime show snow on the front lawn and going back toward the south side (side of house) of the house. %0D %0D However, the crime scene photos taken at the same time show there is no snow on the ground surrounding and leading up to the basement window believed by some to be a possible access point. The window is rather large for a basement window and can be seen easily entered by an adult male in a Youtube video demonstration by a lead investigator on the case. Further, the window had been broken since the autumn.%0D %0D Further crime scene photos of the driveway in front of the garage and the area, including the paved pathway, leading to the basement window around the rear of the house have no snow.

by Anonymousreply 184August 23, 2010 7:10 AM

The other son was an adult and was planning to meet the family with his fiancee (now wife) at the Ramsey's Michigan vacation house. That is why Patsy and John were up so early that morning - for a 7 AM flight by private plane to Michigan. John was in the shower and Patsy went down to the kitchen.%0D %0D I think John's other daughter was also going to join them in Michigan but I don't remember now.

by Anonymousreply 185August 23, 2010 7:13 AM

"the other two (a son & a daughter) were in their 20s at the time of JB's murder. They were not in the house that night. No idea where they were."%0D %0D Both the older kids had been in Denver for the holidays, but went back home to Atlanta (I believe) by Christmas day. There was some concern about the older brother possibly being involved, but he was photographed taking money from an ATM in Atlanta right around the time of the murder, so they knew for a fact he was not in Denver that night.%0D

by Anonymousreply 186August 23, 2010 7:21 AM

182, one of their friends did look into the room where she was eventually found. It was a windowless room in the basement at the back of a corridor with a boiler room and a storage room along the way. The friend claims he looked into the room from the hallway earlier and saw nothing but when it was suggested that they research the house John went with the friend this time and went all the way into the room and saw her body to the left of the door some feet away. She was bundled in a blanket. %0D %0D This is all really sad that I know these things. %0D %0D Someone noted upthread that an intruder would have been heard. You really have to see the floor plans and the pictures to understand how easily it could have been to maneuver in that house after people had gone to bed. %0D %0D JonBenet's bedroom door was right across from a stairway that lead to the first floor and that lead to a short back passageway off the kitchen that lead to the basement stairs. The parents were all the way up on the 3rd floor. Their master suite took up the whole 3rd floor. And who knows if they didn't have a TV on or music on. It was Christmas night. Burke's bedroom was on the other side of the house from JonBenet's. Between the two bedrooms was an open area like a little second floor kitchen, a hallway around the corner from her bedroom door that lead to a playroom that lead to another hallway and then past a guest bedroom and then ended at Burke's bedroom door.%0D %0D There were reports or a report by a neighbor or neighbors that "strange lights" were seen in the kitchen area sometime during the night. That could mean flashlights or not.

by Anonymousreply 187August 23, 2010 7:55 AM

I don't get why the kidnapper asked specifically for his bonus? If I heard, for instance, Oprah got a 2 million dollar bonus this year, I'd ask her for $20 mil, because if you're getting that kind of bonus, you're making multiple times that much in salary and likely have multiples of THAT in savings. If I made $100,000 and got a $7,000 bonus, why would a kidnapper ask me for that when I have so much more on top of that?

by Anonymousreply 188August 23, 2010 8:10 AM

So the 9 year old was on the same floor as JBR and did not see or hear a thing? He must have known what crazy thinks went on in that house even if he did not know anything about the night of the murder. I wonder if he will come forward one day. I hope he does, he might be the only one left who can shed any light on the family secrets. Maybe if his aerotech career doesn't pan out, he will write a tell all.%0D %0D He's our only hope of every knowing the truth.%0D %0D Does anyone know of any major true crimes where the actual truth of the case came out years later? I can't think of one but I'm no expert.

by Anonymousreply 189August 23, 2010 8:27 AM

Patsy wrote the ransom note. At the time she may have thought they would have the opportunity to spirit the body out of the house and allow it to be discovered elsewhere later. %0D %0D She demanded the amount of John's bonus because she did not know whether they would have to go through the motions of making a drop. If they did take the charade to that next level they would need a good chunk of change to make it look plausible. %0D %0D She knew $118,000 was the amount they could lay their hands on conveniently. If she had written a more credible sum like $1,000,000 they'd have to liquidate assets and screw up their finances. It was a half-assed strategy but entirely in keeping with the whole half-assed scheme. %0D %0D John went downstairs and produced the corpse when it was clear to him that they would remain under observation and that there was no point in keeping the ruse of a kidnaping going for much longer before the canine unit was brought in or the smell of the decaying body announced its whereabouts.

by Anonymousreply 190August 23, 2010 8:29 AM

R188, the amount was not an exact match for John Ramsey's bonus (JR received a bonus of $118,117.50) but the figure in the ransom note was close enough to cast immediate suspicion upon someone who knew the Ramseys-- a family member, perhaps, or a friend, or someone connected to John Ramsey's business Access Graphics.%0D %0D According to the [italic]JonBenet Case Encyclopedia[/italic] (see link) a retired FBI agent answered questions on a book tour regarding the Ramsey case and the possible identity of the ransom note author:%0D %0D [quote]In responding to questions, he asserted that he had been one of several FBI agents asked by LE to work up a profile of the RN writer. He claimed that within a couple of weeks after the murder, they had determined the RN writer was a well-educated female between the ages of 29 and 40 who knew the family and knew the home well; they further deduced that JonBenet was already dead when the RN was written. The caring and nurturing language in the note-- "be well rested," etc. helped convince them the writer was female.

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by Anonymousreply 191August 23, 2010 8:35 AM

"The friend claims he looked into the room from the hallway earlier and saw nothing but when it was suggested that they research the house John went with the friend this time and went all the way into the room and saw her body to the left of the door some feet away. She was bundled in a blanket."%0D %0D As I said a few times in this thread, I think the neighbor did it. This guy. The one who helped search for her. He had complete access to that house and he even stored a gift bicycle at his home and brought it over to set up under the tree. He certainly knew and had access to Jon Benet, and he definitely knew the layout.

by Anonymousreply 192August 23, 2010 11:42 AM

To all those asking how could an intruder be in the house and not wake anyone. Do you always wake up when someone in your home goes to the toilet in the middle of the night?

Hell I grew up in a family of six in a house that had about a quarter of the floor space the Ramseys had. I slept like a log every night.

by Anonymousreply 193August 23, 2010 2:22 PM

An intruder NEVER sits down in the victim's home, to write a kidnap note for a dead child, that he has hidden (in a hidden room). The little brother obviously pushed his sister in the bathroom and she hit her head. In their despair, the parents felt the need to cover it up and tried to make it look like a child molester did it. The police were completely incompetent and the case will never be solved. Some religious idiot, who believed the Ramsay's...did a half ass investigation, clearing the Ramsay's.

by Anonymousreply 194August 23, 2010 2:46 PM

"She knew $118,000 was the amount they could lay their hands on conveniently. If she had written a more credible sum like $1,000,000 they'd have to liquidate assets and screw up their finances. It was a half-assed strategy but entirely in keeping with the whole half-assed scheme."%0D %0D Very astute, R190. I could never figure out WHY that particular amount of money was specified. Kidnappers or extortionists never ask for an weird amount like this - it's always a big even chunk ($50K, $100K, etc.) Why didn't the note just demand a flat $20K? Even that is not a large ransom, considering the Ramseys' wealth. %0D %0D Not to mention, asking for the money in such small bills not something smart or experienced criminals would do - they want as few as possible not only for the sake of portability, but because there are fewer bills to launder (smart criminals launder ill-gotten gains, the stupid ones and amateurs spend it and get caught).

by Anonymousreply 195August 23, 2010 3:13 PM

I wonder how whomever did this lives with it?? Especially if it was someone in the family or a person who knew her. It isn't like it is just going to go away.

by Anonymousreply 196August 23, 2010 4:33 PM

r193, I trust you, in your midnight perambulations to the loo, never sneaked into another's bedroom to surprise and murder them!

by Anonymousreply 197August 23, 2010 9:34 PM

R150, what I meant was that the stub for a bonus only shows as a payroll entry. There is nothing on the stub to classify it as a bonus. I work in finance and my bonus stub simply shows as a regular payroll entry. Nowhere on the stud does it say 'bonus'. "Hence", no intruder would be able to differentiate the bonus paystub from the regular paystub according to the previous poster's theory regarding the so-called 'ransom letter'.

by Anonymousreply 198August 23, 2010 10:01 PM

"R193, I trust you, in your midnight perambulations to the loo, never sneaked into another's bedroom to surprise and murder them!"%0D %0D Not for murder, just for surprise anal.%0D

by Anonymousreply 199August 23, 2010 10:18 PM

The neighbor/friend who first checked the room where her father later found her (with the friend following behind him actually) is Fleet White Jr. His father is a wealthy oil man. Fleet Oil. They are from California. As there are for everyone there are those with theories about him. But I don't think there is really anything concrete.%0D %0D The Ramseys all ate dinner at White's house that Christmas night with his wife and his daughter who was the same age as JonBenet and her friend. There may also have been a son present. After the Ramseys left that night they stopped at two houses to drop off presents and then supposedly John carried JonBenet up to bed asleep. %0D %0D He has been cleared by most authorities but he is supposedly not happy and wants a more emphatic exclusion as suspect. I put a link to the Ramsey case board where there is a thread about him. There are others if you look. There are also a million theories and people who have been studying this case both from a far and up close for a long time. Some sound interesting and others are just goofy.%0D %0D One poster has this detailed list of why he is a suspect to that poster and another poster knocks down each item on the list. LOL!%0D %0D Fleet White brought his children to the Boulder police for interviews and he gave DNA evidence, etc to the police himself.%0D %0D As for Burke, he was only 10 at the time. I find it hard to believe that he could have kept up a lie all this time. He was interviewed and cleared. Not sure how many times. %0D %0D The ransom note is an odd thing. It does fit into a number of possibilities. %0D %0D I just keep thinking about how she died and I cannot imagine a parent doing that especially just to cover up for another child. Now if said parent was abusing the child then that's a different story. %0D %0D These were both educated parents with money - if Burke at 10 had done soemthing to his sister then I think they might have been smart enough to figure how to game the system for him. It's not like they couldn't afford the best lawyers and a 10 year old kid who "accidentally" pushes his sister is going to be fine in the system.%0D %0D You have to remember they called the police. If they needed more time for a cover up then they could have waited. But not too long a car was coming for them to take them to the plane for the 7 am departure.

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by Anonymousreply 200August 24, 2010 7:27 AM

oooooooo, the poster who brought up the fact that the Ramsey's made the ransom for 118,000 is astute indeed. Would of never thought of that. The Ramsey's might have been like a lot of wealthy families and not had a lot of cash readily available. If they planned to take JBR to another location, it makes total sense. They would make the sum of the ransom close to the available cash on hand. Very good point. %0D %0D I still think that the young boy Ramsey knows something and is out ticket to the truth. I wish Dateline or someone would get a hold of him.

by Anonymousreply 201August 24, 2010 7:47 AM

[quote]The ransom note is an odd thing. It does fit into a number of possibilities. %0D %0D Please elaborate. Who would feel the need to remind John Ramsey that he'd have to make a trip to the bank to withdraw money from his account; that he'd want to bring a large enough receptacle to hold it all; that he'd be going home afterward to put the money in a paper bag and that he'd need plenty of rest before making the drop OTHER than someone who loved him? Clearly the author of the ransom note is visualizing John through every step he will be taking if he obeys its intructions.%0D %0D After you've given us an alternative explanation perhaps you might explain how both Patsy and John felt it safe to disregard this note even though it told them they were being watched and that their daughter would die if they didn't follow it?

by Anonymousreply 202August 24, 2010 8:08 AM

Sorry but I don't remember that the little boy was ever interviewed by the police and I certainly don't think it happened more than once and I'm sure an attorney was present. Besides that...I remember being a kid and keeping secrets, no matter what feelings I had about my interviewer. Even kids like to save their own hides. If all you have to say is, "I heard nothing, I was asleep." it's pretty easy.

by Anonymousreply 203August 24, 2010 1:52 PM

Burke was 9. He couldn't have figured out the whole garotte thing.%0D

by Anonymousreply 204August 24, 2010 6:35 PM

little boys love weapons

by Anonymousreply 205August 24, 2010 6:53 PM

There is so little evidence to suggest that Burke had a role in this and so much to show that Patsy in particular did. I wonder if people who think Burke did it just had that pet idea spring into their head and then never spent another minute looking over the facts of the case.

by Anonymousreply 206August 24, 2010 7:01 PM

[quote]Sorry but I don't remember that the little boy was ever interviewed by the police

He was interviewed. The text is on one of the pages linked at R26. Should be easy enough to find.

by Anonymousreply 207August 24, 2010 7:12 PM

"I wonder if people who think Burke did it just had that pet idea spring into their head and then never spent another minute looking over the facts of the case."%0D %0D No, I think it's more that people are trying to find some justification for Patsy covering up the murder of a child that, we were told, meant everything to her. We can't wrap our minds around the idea of a mother doing such a thing...but we can imagine a mother covering up a crime or accident committed by her second child.%0D

by Anonymousreply 208August 25, 2010 12:21 AM

Wasn't there DNA found in her panties? They supposedly checked that against all possible suspects and there was no match.

by Anonymousreply 209August 25, 2010 12:50 AM

Just look at that British woman throwing the cat in the trash. If you saw her on the street, you'd think she was just some nice, old lady. You'd never guess she was capable of committing such a heinous act. Looks can be deceiving.

by Anonymousreply 210August 25, 2010 1:03 AM


by Anonymousreply 211August 25, 2010 7:23 AM

This thread made me read up about the case again. My based-on-Internet-information theory is that Patsy was covering for her husband. I just can't see any other explanation, although I admit this theory has serious holes in it.

by Anonymousreply 212August 26, 2010 8:50 AM

Some of us don't think that Burke did the actual murdering, but that he knows something. Siblings often know of abuse in the family. Other than that, he may know if his mom or dad is a pedo or capible of murder. He has to know something if the family was at all involved.

by Anonymousreply 213August 26, 2010 9:09 AM

Did John Ramesy remind anyone else of Gene Hackman?The man gives off a creepy bi vibe.I bet he fucked guys.Patsy probably took out her anger on poor JonBenet.

by Anonymousreply 214August 26, 2010 9:29 AM

For some twisted reason R214's post reminded me of an old skit on MadTV in which John and Patsy Ramsey hosted a show called [italic]Good Morning Boulder[/italic]. The MadTV Ramseys also appeared on [italic]Hollywood Squares[/italic].

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by Anonymousreply 215August 26, 2010 9:57 AM

I've don't believe the family was involved, but I realize that is the minority view point.%0D %0D The Police should have looked at close friends who had been in the house, and people connected to Mr. Ramsey's business. Although, a thrill-seeking pedophile that saw JonBenet somewhere could be responsible, too. %0D %0D Oh, and Mr. Santa, the neighbor. He's dead now; wonder if they ever compared his DNA to what was at the crime scene? I've always been suspicious of Santa.

by Anonymousreply 216August 28, 2010 3:25 PM

Gee, R148, there is also unknown male DNA. Duh...

by Anonymousreply 217August 28, 2010 3:31 PM

I bet Burke was on the internet without much supervision. We have no idea what the child could have been looking at. I do think he perhaps pushed his little sister and she fell badly...or maybe it was Patsy? Who knows? The woman was tired and she knew that she probably would be dying of cancer within a few years...perhaps she was simply over stressed and she lost her temper with her child?

by Anonymousreply 218August 28, 2010 3:51 PM

I don't think Santa did it, R216, mainly because the police didn't seem to view him as a suspect. But he did seem to be kind of odd, based on his appearance on Larry King. Two other things that were strange about him is that his own daughter had been kidnapped many years earlier...but returned unharmed. Plus his wife had once written a play about a girl who was kidnapped and murdered and it apparently bore some similarities to the JBR case, though she'd written it ten or fifteen years before this case

by Anonymousreply 219August 28, 2010 3:52 PM

I thought I read that they more recently found touch DNA on the outside of both sides of JonBenet's lower clothing. This level of DNA detection and testing was not available at the time of the original investigation. It does not match any of the known samples - the family or others who submitted samples - I believe everyone who was in the house that morning which included a number of family friends.

by Anonymousreply 220August 28, 2010 10:53 PM

john mark karr still doing weird JonBenet stuff

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by Anonymousreply 221August 28, 2010 11:12 PM

R219, that is exactly the reason Santa should be looked at again as a viable suspect. I think the police made some terrible assumptions in this case from the beginning.

by Anonymousreply 222August 31, 2010 6:23 PM

[italic]I bet Burke was on the internet without much supervision. We have no idea what the child could have been looking at.[/italic]

Most people didn't have the Internet back in 1996.

by Anonymousreply 223August 31, 2010 10:11 PM

Who ever did the murder got away with it. So, if it wasn't Patsy, there is still a murderer out there somewhere.

by Anonymousreply 224September 1, 2010 12:00 AM

I don't know if it's been posted. Can't read the whole thread. I posted this in previous Patsy threads. I'll google it and try to find it.

But they did the same thing the Skakel's did. They hired a PI to help find the killer. Just like the Skakel's PI it didn't clear the family. In fact the investigators did a thorough job and pointed the finger at Patsy.

They theorize that JonBenet died in the bathtub. The dent in her skull matched the rounded edge of the bathtub. They had a whole outline and it was pretty devastating to Patsy's claim of innocence.

by Anonymousreply 225September 1, 2010 1:17 AM

The Ramsay's were wealthy and Mr Ramsay was the head of some kind of computer company...am I wrong?

by Anonymousreply 226September 1, 2010 4:52 PM

Someone on the Garbo thread posted a link to a blog with the allegedly last photos taken of people before they died. Thought the one of Jon-Benet and Patsy was interesting.

Until I saw this photo, I thought Patsy had just written the note. Now that I look at that stressed out freaked out face, I'm starting to think she did more than write the note.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 227November 23, 2010 7:54 PM

I lived in Boulder at the time of the murder and they pretty much proved it couldn't possibly have been anyone in the family that did it.

by Anonymousreply 228November 23, 2010 8:00 PM

"The weird thing is that the semen on JonBenet's clothes did not match genetically with the male Ramseys."%0D %0D It is a well-known fact that Patsy was a squirter. Case closed.

by Anonymousreply 229November 23, 2010 8:06 PM

Bullshit...there was actually no seman found. The family knows what happened and Patsy wrote that ridiculous ransom note. Why are people so damn stupid?

by Anonymousreply 230November 23, 2010 8:10 PM

The only people here who think Patsy is innocent are FEMALES who don't like to think that FEMALES commit heinous crimes.%0D

by Anonymousreply 231November 23, 2010 8:18 PM

No,r228, they did not "prove" anything, as there was no trial with evidence and SWORN testimony.%0D %0D The mother did it. She wrote that crazy note, after writing and leaving a draft copy (I'm SURE a stranger, who would be worried about being caught any second, would come UNPREPARED); she never changed her clothes (unique alteration to Patsy's usual routine, and on that night, too!); she clearly lied about the pineapple; the closing of "SBTC" was one of Patsy's faves: Saved By The Cross; and she NEVER ACTED AFRAID---AFRAID that the "small foreign faction" WERE LURKING IN HER VERY HOUSE as she read!%0D %0D GMAB here. The case was botched for the same reason the Simpson case was botched: the police acted deferentially to MONEY.

by Anonymousreply 232November 23, 2010 8:41 PM

I know, r131! Amazing, no?!

by Anonymousreply 233November 23, 2010 8:42 PM

r230 Actually a detective on the case, a male detective, is the one who wrote a book saying that the family was innocent based on evidence.

by Anonymousreply 234November 23, 2010 8:58 PM

R231 = dumb "lesbo" who thinks men are oppressed.

by Anonymousreply 235November 23, 2010 9:36 PM

I read this whole thread, man! %0D %0D Shoot. %0D %0D I do not think that Burke had a god damn thing to do with it at all. He would have shown tendencies towards a thing or two before that and Patsy would have done what all Southern mothers do in situations like that...put his ass in military school or hide him in the attic Boo Radley style. %0D %0D So...%0D %0D Patsy covered up a hell of a mess. I think the dad was fucking the little girl or a close family friend was and Patsy just went off because she was a crazy ass bitch. %0D %0D Thank you. %0D %0D %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 236November 23, 2010 10:02 PM

I keep coming back to the voice in the ransom note... it sounds wacked out, taunting, and (to me) female. A voice that veers unsteadily in and out of character, back and forth, as the foreign faction and as a woman who knew John well.

So I'm going with the belief that Patsy wrote the note.

From there, who knows, except the simplest explanation is that a family member killed the girl and Patsy's note was a deflection strategy.

There never was consensus among handwriting analysis experts as to whether or not the ransom note pointed to Patsy. Some said it cleared her, others said it and/or her samples were obviously disguised.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 237November 23, 2010 10:23 PM

Oh you mean a detective hired by the Ramseys, Zan? Anyway, no book found they COULD NOT have done it. That is too brazen a claim even for John Mark Karr to make.%0D

by Anonymousreply 238November 23, 2010 10:26 PM

Excellent thread. I'm persuaded Burke should be considered "a person of interest." %0D %0D In weighing the balance between, on one scale, the Ramsey's protecting him from suspicion, with, on the other scale, that he could not have done it because he was too young, or would have cracked by now, the desire to protect him, by far, is heavier.%0D %0D I either one of the adult Ramsey's did it, one of them would have cracked, but they didn't. They stuck to each other's story like glue to protect Burke.%0D %0D Although rare, children have and do commit homicide, intentional or accidentally. I find it plausible that, say, JB and Burke playing (insert finger quotes) he becomes enraged, and strikes her.%0D %0D Given the creepy sexualization of JB perpetrated by the Ramsey's, Burke, the poor thing, must have hated her in a way only young children can when reared in an environment where proper sexual boundaries are not present.%0D %0D And how does anybody know that Burke has not unburdened himself about what happened that night? You don't know that he hasn't spoken to a member of the clergy, a psychiatrist or an attorney about what happened.%0D %0D If I recall correctly from my law school evidence class, a cleryperson, psychiatrist or attorney is only a mandated reporter IF they believe thier client is capable of, given thier state of mind, imminent, immediate danger to another person.%0D %0D I may have to stand corrected about that because I no longer practice law, but still, the notion that Burke didn't do it because "he would have told someone" does not hold water.

by Anonymousreply 239November 23, 2010 11:19 PM

Man,this case brings out the crazies!!%0D %0D Quit attacking Zan who has every right to his/her own opinion.%0D %0D 230, YOU are the one who is stupid. There are a whole lot of people who worked on this case who think the family is innocent.%0D %0D I think someone broke in that night & killed that little girl other than the Ramseys. The question is was it a complete stranger or a friend/acquaintance of the family???..%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 240November 23, 2010 11:20 PM

Forgot to add that I want to compliment r146, r152 and r165 for thier compelling posts.

by Anonymousreply 241November 23, 2010 11:21 PM

oops, r152. Sorry, but I meant to write that I don't find your post to be persuasive.%0D %0D I suppose you don't find mine to be. Oh well, we're even.

by Anonymousreply 242November 23, 2010 11:27 PM

There was ice on the steps and I slipped and fell against her, and that was all.

by Anonymousreply 243November 23, 2010 11:53 PM

The whacked out ransom note does not "sound" female to me.

by Anonymousreply 244November 24, 2010 12:30 AM

I have always wondered about this Fleet White guy; he and John Ramsey were best friends, and evidently shortly after the murder they stopped speaking. I don't think he had anything to do with the murder, but I wonder what he knows...

by Anonymousreply 245November 24, 2010 1:00 AM

Me too, r245.

by Anonymousreply 246November 24, 2010 1:07 AM

Fleet called 911 from the Ramseys house. 911 is never an accidental dialing from a landline.

by Anonymousreply 247November 24, 2010 1:16 AM

A murderer would never sit down in the house, where he had just hid a body and write a long ransom note. It simply would not be done. It's obvious that the Ramsey's hid the body, thinking the cops would not search the house. They thought the police would immeadiately start searching somewhere else and they would be safe...until they could bury the body or place it somewhere else. We have no idea what went down but we do know, the Ramsey's were the ones who did it.

by Anonymousreply 248November 24, 2010 1:25 AM

r244, you think this sounds "male"?%0D "Use that good southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now John!"%0D %0D THAT is a mocking woman, a wife, even.%0D

by Anonymousreply 249November 24, 2010 1:29 AM

R238 I'm talking about Lou Smit who was a retired detective called in by the police dept to help them. Boulder isn't exactly crime central and original cops that answered the 911 call had already probably destroyed most of the good evidence in the beginning. They were idiots and I don't think the Boulder Police Dept has ever recovered the confidence of it's people. They did recently have some DNA evidence which excluded the Ramsey's.

by Anonymousreply 250November 24, 2010 1:29 AM

Say what you will about me, but I had lovely penmanship.

by Anonymousreply 251November 24, 2010 1:42 AM

The ransom note has been analyzed by many linguists who have come to the same conclusion. The ransom note was written by a female with a college education. Probably someone who grew up in the south. The language is also very personal. It starts out speaking in the third person and becomes more personal toward the end, most likely due to the stress of the writer.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 252November 24, 2010 2:18 AM

So we have revived this thread. %0D %0D I just thought of something that never dawned on me before. I'm sure others have thought of it before. %0D %0D Could the Ramseys or Patsy alone at first have discovered JonBenet missing and felt the local police wouldn't respond properly or quickly and aggressively enough. In a panic believing the local police would be inadequate, could they have wanted to get the FBI involved asap and so they made sure no one would doubt it was a kidnapping by concocting the ransom letter? %0D %0D I know that experts have excluded Patsy's handwriting (though I don't know how many of Patsy's exemplars they were able to use in the comparison) but that could explain why Patsy could have written the letter without her or anyone in their family being guilty of killing her. %0D %0D For people who suggest Patsy wrote the note to throw them off the trail of Burke you need to consider that in the same vein as my suggestion above that the Ramseys wrote the note to get the FBI involved, if you knew your son or loved one did the killing wouldn't you want an inept and inexperienced police force to handle the case. The last thing you would want would be the FBI involved and the ransom note does exactly that.

by Anonymousreply 253November 24, 2010 9:12 AM

R253, if one is determined to go with a hypothesis that Patsy somehow wrote the ransom note but had nothing to do with the murder -- then, sure, your idea is one way to get to that hypothesis.

But why, then, wouldn't Patsy confess the note and her motive soon after the girl's dead body was found? If the family were truly innocent of the murder, wouldn't their immediate #1 goal be to help investigators find the real killer? Why attempt to send investigators down the false trail of a ransom-note-writer who doesn't exist?

R248 is making much more sense. Think of the most common mistakes made by killers when it is a domestic situation. The mix of hubris and panic, thinking (or praying) that they can outwit investigators.

by Anonymousreply 254November 24, 2010 10:00 AM

That ransom note reminds me that someone made font out of it. I still have it just in case a foreign faction happens to kill someone who rubs me the wrong way.

by Anonymousreply 255November 24, 2010 10:36 AM

9-1-1 was called from the Ramsey house Dec 23. That was the motive. Somebody was going to drop a dime on whoever had been molesting that little girl.%0D %0D %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 256November 24, 2010 9:40 PM

r253, lt's not go for the bizarre, okay?%0D %0D And NO experts "excluded Patsy's handwriting"; indeed, hers was the only one NOT excluded.

by Anonymousreply 257November 24, 2010 11:25 PM

HELLO! The DA exonerated all Ramsey family members in this case. Get over it!

by Anonymousreply 258November 24, 2010 11:39 PM

Please, such a fucked up job of investigating...he had to say that to save his ass. Grow the fuck up.

by Anonymousreply 259November 25, 2010 2:28 AM

r248 If the killer was waiting for the Ramsey's to come home hiding in the house then he would have had the opportunity to write and rewrite a note. It is thought that the killer was already waiting inside when they got home that night. Just for the record, through the years I have changed my opinion about this case many times.

by Anonymousreply 260November 25, 2010 12:52 PM

R260, how would you explain that when the police arrived, Patsy was still wearing the outfit she wore to thee party?

I think it *was* someone on the outside, but that, as well as that ridiculous note nag at me.

by Anonymousreply 261November 25, 2010 1:08 PM

Wait a minute. They were taking a *private* plane to a *second* home, but they don't have a window repaired?

by Anonymousreply 262November 25, 2010 1:16 PM

[quote]I know that experts have excluded Patsy's handwriting %0D %0D No, they haven't. Patsty and the ransom note writer both printed their lower-case As in the far less usual way of giving them that top curl that you see in type-face. There were other characteristics as well. The experts excluded John but said Patsy could have written the note.

by Anonymousreply 263November 25, 2010 1:32 PM

R261 I had never heard that Patsy was wearing the same clothes as she wore the night before. I googled it and you're right some investigators believe she was wearing the same outfit as the night before and that her side of the bed hadn't been slept in. That's damaging. I was always hung up by the note as well. There were some possible explanations but always the nagging doubt.

by Anonymousreply 264November 25, 2010 2:27 PM

Not just the same clothes, far more damning, she was wearing the same full face of evening makeup she had worn to the cocktail party the evening before according to the neighbor who hosted that party. %0D %0D Does a rich beauty queen go to bed with a face full of makeup to smear all over her high thread-count bed linens? %0D %0D Or does she wash her face clean that night then re-apply the full formal evening cosmetic job the next morning after she fnds her daughter missing but before the police arrive?%0D %0D Or did she leave on her makeup on from the evening before because she never made it to bed but stayed up all night instead?%0D %0D P.S. Burke did not kill his sister. I know it's a pet theory dear to many hearts but the lack of evidence should force its adherents to give it up.

by Anonymousreply 265November 25, 2010 4:02 PM

r260: Sure, the killer just ambled around the house, not knowing when the Ramseys would be home, fortuitously finding Patsy's tablet, and making and leaving a ROUGH DRAFT. Yes, that makes sense. Not. Lurking in the basement, then, waiting for the entire family to fall asleep.%0D %0D Except PATSY DID NOT, as her same-clothing-same-make-up appearance later proved.%0D %0D And of course, having sneaked unseen into JB's room, the lurker somehow silently bashed her head in and then carried the corpse to hide it in the basement, risking his own detection again for what?---or did he tell JB to remain quiet while he carried her to the basement where THEN he bashed her head in? %0D And afterwards, he made his way, still certain everyone else was FAST ASLEEP, clever criminal that he was, BACK to the stairway to leave the bizarre "ransom note". %0D %0D A "ransom" demand the killer never ever followed up on. Now WHY would THAT be, given the TIME he spent COMPOSING this note, while lurking and waiting? %0D %0D And then Burke is later hustled out of the house unceremoniously, the lad apparently unconcerned there had been a KIDNAPPER IN HIS HOUSE, AND THAT HE COULD HAVE BEEN A VICTIM.%0D Now why would Burke not have been worried about harm to himself? Because maybe he knew who the perp(s) was (were)?%0D %0D That was a messed-up family.

by Anonymousreply 266November 25, 2010 4:20 PM

I think the family was involved. However, the note didn't have to be written at the house. Someone could have taken the pad during the party, like the neighbor, and composed the note at home. He then could have brought it back.

by Anonymousreply 267November 25, 2010 5:07 PM

r267: Then explain the presence of, I fear I repeat, the rough draft. There are also crossed-out parts and corrections to the final copy. These can be seen in BOOKS about the case.%0D %0D Moreover, one has the killer traipsing around, from basement to bedroom to back stairway, in some order or other, all undetected.%0D %0D Oh, and exiting as well.%0D %0D Right.

by Anonymousreply 268November 25, 2010 5:16 PM

[quote]HELLO! The DA exonerated all Ramsey family members in this case. Get over it!%0D %0D Guilty people are exonerated all the time, especially when they have money and powerful friends. %0D %0D I think Patsy did it and I am "over it" because she is dead.

by Anonymousreply 269November 25, 2010 5:28 PM

Re: the note

If this was an actual "kidnapping," why did the (fictitious) perps go to all the trouble of writing the note with explicit instructions, et al., and then kill her anyway, AND leave the remains there for the family to "claim"?

I think it's fairly obvious one of girl's parents did it.

by Anonymousreply 270November 25, 2010 5:59 PM

Yes, R234, Detective Lou Smit did side with the Ramseys and declare them not guilty. However, it sounds as if Smit -- a devout Christian -- may have been swayed by the Ramseys' faith. They were purported to be quite religious and the detective bought into that theory, prayed with them, and felt they couldn't be guilty because they too were Christians.

by Anonymousreply 271November 25, 2010 6:47 PM

It's Patsy's voice, mentality, and character which wrote that note. Still can't figure out who killed JonBenet or why, but given that Patsy wrote the note, one of the three of them did it. Unless there's a confession, that's all we'll ever know.

by Anonymousreply 272November 25, 2010 7:11 PM

Smit developed a personal relationship with the Ramseys which makes his claims of innocence suspect in my eyes. I'm sure he truly believes they're innocent and he did bring up a lot of points the investigators missed, but I never found his points to do more than create reasonable doubt in potential jurors.

by Anonymousreply 273November 25, 2010 7:33 PM

Why didn't the wealthy Ramseys have security, or even so much as a locked house? It's not like Boulder was some wealthy country town. Neither was from a rich family, they would have been scared of losing their stuff. I think they had security and it was glossed over in the case.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 274November 25, 2010 7:59 PM

Christians are often scammed by other "pretend" Christians.

by Anonymousreply 275November 26, 2010 2:08 AM

[quote]Christians are often scammed by other "pretend" Christians.%0D %0D Yes, some of the slimiest "financial Planning" companies encourage their salespeople to solicit customers from their congregation.

by Anonymousreply 276November 26, 2010 2:26 AM

I also do not believe Burke. He can be heard clearly on the 911 call wander in the room and asking what is happening. He's shushed and ignored, which must have been a familiar treatment for him.

by Anonymousreply 277November 26, 2010 2:37 AM

I don't know who did it, but I hope JonBenet didn't have to look into a parent's eyes while they killed her.

by Anonymousreply 278November 26, 2010 2:38 AM

R277, I didn't think he could be heard asking what happened, I thought that he was heard saying something more like either "what did I do" or "what do we do"?

by Anonymousreply 279November 26, 2010 2:56 AM

[quote]It's Patsy's voice, mentality, and character which wrote that note. Still can't figure out who killed JonBenet or why, but given that Patsy wrote the note, one of the three of them did it. Unless there's a confession, that's all we'll ever know.

What happens in Colorado, stays in Colorado.

by Anonymousreply 280November 26, 2010 4:58 PM

The clothes and alleged make-up donb't mean much if anything. %0D %0D Lots of women go to bed with their make-up on after an exhausting and full day. It happens all the time. Some women even put makeup on for their husbands at night. Patsy seems exactly that type. %0D %0D I cannot even imagine that with their money they worried about make-up smears on a pillow case. Plus make-up is mostly worn off by the end of an evening. Anyway how do you know what color the pillow case was? Could have been hunter green or black. %0D %0D Many people put their clothes on a chair or nearby when they go to bed - again especially when they are tired. It's pretty easy to quickly grab and put on the same clothes from the night before. I also assume that even in their situation you'd get dressed with the police coming. %0D %0D These aren't very persuasive arguments.%0D %0D Nobody assumes a prowler wandered around the house. If it was an intruder it has been assumed they knew what they were doing and where they were going as soon as it was clear and that they had planned for this. It has been theorized that an intruder could have easily hidden in the basement or even on the second floor in one of the unused rooms - one right next to Jonbenet's. %0D %0D It may or may not surprise people how careless people are about home security. For me that would be a huge priority. Like the Petit family in Connecticut, they obviously didn't have much security if any. It makes me angry that parents who are responsible for their childrens' lives aren't more careful. Security systems that set off loud alarms and automatically contact the police or security when they are tripped is the least you should have. Me - if I lived in a house rather than a condo I'd have a big barking dog, a gun and every window and entry point alarmed. My neighbors would love me but nobody would be getting in my house undetected. %0D %0D But nobody thinks they will be the victim of these things. I admit I'm a bit paranoid but then I was checking my closet for monsters at an early age. I'm still here.

by Anonymousreply 281November 28, 2010 7:38 AM

[quote]I cannot even imagine that with their money they worried about make-up smears on a pillow case. Plus make-up is mostly worn off by the end of an evening. Anyway how do you know what color the pillow case was? Could have been hunter green or black. %0D %0D Wearing make up to bed is really bad for your skin. A former beauty queen would know this. Only a lazy slob who didn't care a thing about her appearance would wear a full "party face" of cosmetics to bed.

by Anonymousreply 282November 28, 2010 7:51 AM

I know it can be bad for your skin. No argument but once in a while it doesn't hurt. As a woman who tried to make a strict habit of washing my face every night I know that there are women who don't and I know that I still ended up going to bed from time to time without washing as well. If you're ready to fall asleep, the act of washing your face just wakes you up.%0D %0D And as I said after a long day or being out for the evening most make-up is worn off by the time you hit the sack. No woman still has a full party face - whatever that means - after being out of her home, having dinner, dropping presents off at several homes for 5 - 6 hours. Such judgment. Slobs?? Good lord. Chill.

by Anonymousreply 283November 28, 2010 8:07 AM

But most of the makeup couldn't have worn off if the neighbor noticed she was still wearing it. %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 284November 28, 2010 8:17 AM

I go to bed with makeup on when I'm too tired to do my routine. I know a lot of women who do.

by Anonymousreply 285November 28, 2010 8:23 AM

It's really a combination of things, though: Makeup still on, same clothes as the night before, bed not slept in.

The thing is, if that photo I posted at R227 is really from the night before JonBenet was found, that shows Patsy almost WITHOUT makeup. Her eye makeup is on, but the face makeup is wearing off. She looks like she's been crying or sweating, which would of course wash away makeup.

Which makes me wonder, did she put makeup ON before the cops arrived?

by Anonymousreply 286November 28, 2010 9:49 AM

Think about your own life, your own home, your own family, your own routines, quirks and interests. Now put it all under intense scrutiny and suspicion.

How well would any of us really come out in a National Enquirer expose?

Just being gay would have us convicted by a lot of wanna-be Nancy Drews. Got some porn in the house? What about some True Crime books? Any close relatives in jail? How about some odd hobbies or interests like medieval re-enactment, train spotting, speed chess or pageants? What about your religious beliefs? Muslims, Mormons and New Agers would be ripped to shreds.

Anyone can be tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. That's why I'm always very dubious about these big time crime stories. Half the time the media latch on to the wrong suspects, just because people like to vent at some imaginary evildoer based on trivial information about their lives.

by Anonymousreply 287November 28, 2010 12:38 PM

R287, in the majority of homicide cases with young children, the perps are the child's parents/caregivers. For tabloids and other media outlets to 'latch on' to the Ramseys as potential suspects was not surprising.

by Anonymousreply 288November 28, 2010 12:47 PM

Agree with 281 and 287.

by Anonymousreply 289November 28, 2010 12:52 PM

I'm convinced that Patsy wrote the note, and that both parents were part of the conspiracy from the start.

What I don't know is who killed JB. Burke seems very unlikely to me. If you're jealous and violent, you might push someone down the stairs, or possibly hit them over the head. You don't garotte them. Wasn't the garotting the proximate cause of death?

There was evidence that some feel is indicative of sexual abuse, which points to John or someone close to the family.

So those of you who think Patsy wrote the note: (a) Do you think she was being molested? And (b) who do you think killed her, and why?

by Anonymousreply 290November 28, 2010 1:12 PM

The link at R26 says that the pineapple was in her small intestine, and there's really no definitive decision on when she ate it. It's possible that Burke served it to her on the afternoon of Christmas day before they even left for the party, which would account for his fingerprints on the bowl.

I don't think he did it.

by Anonymousreply 291November 28, 2010 2:07 PM

The problem with the intruder theory is that there was snow outside, and there were no unusual footprints in the snow around the house that would indicate someone trying to get in through a window. If someone outside the family came into the house to murder JonBenet, they either came in through an unlocked door (do rich people in Boulder feel safe enough to leave their doors unlocked?) or somebody let them in.

by Anonymousreply 292November 28, 2010 3:01 PM

r287, when a child is murdered, it's standard operating procedure for the parents to be suspects because statistically speaking that's who's most likely to have done it. The Ramseys certainly did nothing to exonerate themselves when they refused to cooperate with the police, and the creepy details like the fake ransom note, the footage of JonBenet dressed like a stripper and that flesh-crawling interview that John and Patsy gave which took the concept of inappropriate affect to new heights, and you can see how Mrs. Patsy Ramsey became a byword for predatory parenting.

by Anonymousreply 293November 28, 2010 3:18 PM

Child molesters don't always cum on or in their victims. A lot of times they just feel them up or have the kids touch them.

by Anonymousreply 294November 28, 2010 3:24 PM

I don't even know why this needs to be discussed...the parents know what happened, she's dead, he won't talk. I would say, he is probably the guilty party and Patsy went along with him out of embarrassment and guilt.

by Anonymousreply 295November 28, 2010 4:32 PM

The police affirmatively cleared the family. NOT decided there wasn't enough evidence to charge them. CLEARED them. And yet you ninnies go on and on.

by Anonymousreply 296November 28, 2010 4:46 PM

[quote]Lots of women go to bed with their make-up on after an exhausting and full day. It happens all the time. Some women even put makeup on for their husbands at night. Patsy seems exactly that type.


"Real" women, as opposed to, say, DRAG QUEENS or "occasional" women -- *absolutely* remove their make up before going to bed. You must always wash your face before bed!! Else you'll get wrinkles. Women spends tons of money on anti-wrinkle cream. They remove their make up NO MATTER WHAT.

That is a basic rule followed since college.

by Anonymousreply 297November 28, 2010 4:50 PM

That the Boulder police "cleared" them was a political act not based on fact.

by Anonymousreply 298November 28, 2010 4:51 PM

There will be times when even the most fastidious woman falls asleep without removing her makeup. But if she does, it [italic] doesn't look the same the next morning[/italic], it's all smeared under they eyes. If Mrs. Ramsay still had on the same eye makeup in the morning as she had the previous night, then she hadn't been to bed.%0D %0D And I ask you, what kind of pedophile burglar spends hours in a house where the inhabitants are awake?

by Anonymousreply 299November 28, 2010 5:00 PM

The family was cleared based on DNA evidence, not politics.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 300November 28, 2010 5:05 PM

Does anyone have a bulleted list of indisputable facts? I'm late to the game & haven't followed so closely, and now I don't know what's what. Was semen found? How was she killed? Who said what on the 911 call?

by Anonymousreply 301November 28, 2010 5:12 PM

On the first 9-1-1 call nothing was said.%0D

by Anonymousreply 302November 28, 2010 5:39 PM

The DNA "evidence" only shows that a "3rd party" DNA sample was present. They do not state how many other samples from how many other people who handled JonBenet's clothing -- and may have touched -- could have been present. DNA contaminants are common from samples collected from non-sterile environments.

The statement released is a false conclusion and shows bias:

"Lacy took pains to state that her office does not consider JonBenet's father, her mother -- now deceased -- or older brother to be suspects. She said she released the findings in the interest of justice."

ANY amount of "DNA evidence" does not negate the high probability that Patsy wrote the note. Still, anyone in the family or outside of the family could have killed her. But Patsy wrote the note.

This was not a kidnapping. The note was a weak attempt to protect someone, whether or not it is someone associated with someone else's DNA.

The tightly-wound, conservative, religious freak show family of a sexualized child beauty queen is still suspicious. It was a blister that popped. Appearances, materialism, and artifice meant everything to Patsy. And she wrote the note. Just sayin'.

That's all we know for now.

by Anonymousreply 303November 28, 2010 6:37 PM

I'm with 301 is there a bullet list of the facts? I went to the link several pages back where that crime journalist states that he believes that a child porn ring was involved. He made some great points and the points help explain away inconsistencies and shed some light on the parents behavior. I do think that John Ramsey knew that his child was being molested and I believe his activities lead to her death. I think he wrote the note and I don't think Patsy knew what the fuck happened.

by Anonymousreply 304November 28, 2010 6:46 PM

JonBen%C3%A9t Ramsey Case Timeline by CrimeShots%C2%A9

December 23, 1996: The Ramseys host a Christmas party, with approximately 30 guests attending, and with former journalism professor Bill McReynolds playing Santa Claus.

At 6:47 p.m., someone attending the party placed a 911 call, which was answered by police dispatcher Therese Hilleary. The caller hung up without saying anything. Police call back only to get the Ramsey's anwering machine. Officer "B.O. 266" goes to the home at 6:54 p.m. and leaves at 7:09 p.m., after being assured that there was no emergency.

December 24, 1996: The Ramseys attend twilight service at St. John's Episcopal Church in Boulder.

At 9 p.m., John Ramsey retrieves a brand new silver girl's bike stored in neighbor Joe Barnhill's garage and places it under the Christmas tree for JonBen%C3%A9t.

December 25, 1996: The Ramseys attend a Christmas dinner at 5:00 p.m at the Fleet White residence. After the family returns home, JonBen%C3%A9t is carried? to bed at about 9:30 p.m. The family had plans to fly to Michigan early the next morning.

Sometime before dawn, JonBen%C3%A9t is killed; her skull is fractured, she is strangled with a cord, duct tape is put over her mouth, and her body is placed downstairs in a small windowless room in the basement. She is wrapped in a blanket, with the ligature still around her neck, head uncovered, and her arms above her head.

December 26, 1996: Patsy Ramsey calls the police at 5:52 A.M., shouting "send help!" and saying that her daughter is missing and that a 2%C2%BD page ransom note demanding $118,000 had been left by the kidnapper on the steps of the back stairs leading to the kitchen.

The note begins: "Dear Mr. Ramsey, We have your daughter..." and includes the words "behead" and "attach%C3%A9." It was printed in block letters with a "Sharpie" felt tipped pen. Four misspellings in the note appear to be intentional. Patsy Ramsey screams for John and they check Burke's room, but JonBen%C3%A9t is not in there. Patsy begins to phone friends.

Friends begin gathering at the home almost immediately. Police arrive at approximately 6:00 A.M and perform a cursory search of the premises. A window in the basement was found broken with a suitcase underneath. There is no other indication of forced entry. They contact the FBI and begin making plans to deal with the kidnapper. A detective does not arrive until two hours later.

John Ramsey begins arranging to obtain cash for the $118,000 ransom.

At approximately 8:00 AM Law Enforcement arrive and set up a wiretap and recording equipment.

Around 1:00 p.m., Linda Arndt asked Fleet White, a friend of the Ramseys, to take John and search the house for "anything unusual." At approximately 1:30 p.m., John Ramsey and his friend Fleet White discover JonBen%C3%A9t's body in the basement.

John Ramsey removes the tape from her mouth and carries her upstairs in outstretched arms, where he lay her on the floor at the top of the stairs and requests a blanket from the couch to cover her. Patsy flings herself onto JonBen%C3%A9t's body and shouts "help me Jesus!". Linda Arndt shortly thereafter, moves JonBen%C3%A9t's body over near the Christmas tree and places a Colorado Avalanche's sweatshirt over her.

Twenty minutes later, John is overheard placing a phone call to his pilot to ready the plane to head for Atlanta. Police instructed them not to leave town, so they began staying at a friend's home in Boulder.

At approximately 2:00 P.M., as the Ramseys are leaving their home after JonBen%C3%A9t's body is discovered and it is declared a crime scene, John Andrew, Melinda and Stewart Long (Melinda's fianc%C3%A9) arrive in front of the house. Investigators begin a 10 day evidence gathering quest.

The coroner arrived at approximately 8 PM and entered the house where the decedent's body was located at approximately 8:20 PM. The Boulder County coronor's staff removed JonBen%C3%A9t's body from the house at approximately 9:45 p.m.

December 27, 1996: The Boulder County coroner reported that an autopsy revealed that the cause of death was asphyxia due to strangulation, and her death was ruled a homicide.

December 28, 1996: Detectives inspect the body for evidence of semen, blood and saliva, and take blood, hair and handwriting samples from the Ramseys and their relatives and friends.

December 29, 1996: A memorial service is held for JonBen%C3%A9t at St. John's Episcopal Church in Boulder.

December 30, 1996: The family takes the body by private jet to Atlanta, which was their former place of residency before their move to Colorado.

It is also reported that the Ramseys have retained Bryan Morgan and their attorney, and that JonBen%C3%A9t's two older half-siblings, John Andrew (who lived at the Ramsey home) and Melinda, were out of town on the night of the murder.

A press conference is held by Leslie Aaholm, city of Boulder spokeperson.

December 31, 1996: JonBen%C3%A9t is buried at a cemetary in Marietta, Georgia, her birthplace, next to her half-sister Elizabeth, who had been killed at the age of 22 in a car accident in 1992.

January 1, 1997: John and Patsy Ramsey appear in an interview on CNN and state that they are not the killers and that "there is a killer on the loose." They also say that they have hired their own investigators (Ellis Armistead and David Williams) and were offering a $50,000 reward for information on the killer.

It is reported that Patsy Ramsey has retained defense attorney Patrick Burke.

Boulder detectives go to Georgia to interview relatives, friends, and associates of the family.

January 2, 1997: It is reported that JonBen%C3%A9t had been sexually assaulted.

In response to Patsy's comment on CNN, Boulder Mayor Leslie Durgin made a statement denying that there was a killer on the loose in Boulder.

January 3, 1997: The Ramseys return to Boulder and begin staying in the homes of family friends.

The family hires media consultant Pat Korten, from Washington, D.C., to handle inquiries from the press.

It is reported that there was forced entry into the Ramsey's home and that as many as 15 people had keys to the house. Durgin states in a press conference that thirty police had been assigned to the case.

January 4, 1997: Police complete 10 days of evidence gathering at the house.

It was reported that the note had been written on a legal pad found inside the house and also contained a warning that the Ramseys prepare for a rigorous ordeal.

It was also reported that the Ramsey's security system was not operating at the time of the murder.

January 5, 1997: Police submit a list of written questions to John and Patsy Ramsey and begin searching the Ramsey vacation home in Charlevoix, Michigan.

Lead investigator Sgt. Larry Mason is reassigned, supposedly because of leaks to the media.

January 5, 1997: Pat Korten arranges a photo opportunity for the media when the parents and son Burke attend Sunday church service in Boulder.

January 6, 1997: A school-wide assembly is held at High Peaks Elementary School to inform the students about the murder. Meanwhile, detectives return from gathering information in Georgia.

The Colorado Daily reports that the police had searched the windowless room earlier than John Ramsey and that the body was not there at that time.

The media attempt to use legal means to obtain information about evidence removed from the house.

January 7, 1997: Boulder District Judge Diane McDonald seals all documents, including the search warrant, relating to the case for 30 days. A Michigan judge seals the search warrant for the vacation home.

It is reported that investigators had found a small portion of a "practice" ransom note in the house, which was produced using the same pen and pad of paper.

January 8, 1997: The Ramseys provide written reponses to the questions submitted by investigators.

It is reported that detectives in Michigan are looking for any information documenting threats to the Ramseys.

January 9, 1997: It is reported that a cord tied around JonBen%C3%A9t's right wrist matched the cord around her neck. Police Chief Tom Koby announces at a press conference that the investigation has narrowed, but does not name suspects.

The Rocky Mountain News reported that police did not search the room where the body was found the morning of the 26th.

January 10, 1997: It is reported that the 911 call made during the Ramsey's party three days before the murder was not an emergency, but an accidentally made call by a guest at the party, that was later reported to have been Fleet White.

January 11, 1997: The Globe obtains stolen photos of the body and the crime scene.

January 12, 1997: Local stores announce they will refuse to sell the Globe edition containing the stolen photographs.

January 13, 1997: The photos appear in the Globe. The Boulder coroner sues to stop publication of further photographs.

J anuary 14, 1997: It is reported that the Ramseys have hired their own handwriting analysts to evaluate the ransom note, along with former-FBI agent, John Douglas, known for his work in in profiling criminals.

The Globe agrees not to publish additional photographs, but retains rights to those that were published.

January 15, 1997: Lawrence Shawn Smith, an employee of Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc., the photo lab that processed the crime scene photos, is arrested, along with Brett Allen Sawyer, a Boulder private investigator and former Boulder County Sheriff's deputy, in connection with the stolen photos.

January 21, 1997: It is reported that investigators have provided a copy of the ransom note to the Ramseys. Police state that the $118,000 demanded in the ransom note is the amount received recently as a bonus by John Ramsey.

January 22, 1997: An attorney for John Ramsey stated that the District Attorney had reported that JonBen%C3%A9t had not been abused; however, the DA's office responded that it had made no statement "one way or the other' on the subject.

It is reported that the Ramsey family has been asked to take polygraph tests, and that the family had refused.

January 24, 1997: Burke Ramsey returns to school. Police have collected handwriting samples from employees of Access Graphics.

February 12, 1997: It is reported that police obtained hair and blood samples from Bill McReynolds (Santa Claus).

February 14, 1997: A Boulder County judge seals portions of the autopsy report unsealed for 90 days or until a suspect is arrested.

February 15-16, 1997: Detectives return to Atlanta to conduct additional interviews.

February 19, 1997: Ramsey media consultant Pat Korten states that investigators have requested a third handwriting sample from John Ramsey.

February 25, 1997: A judge orders case documents sealed for another 90 days or until an arrest is made. Pat Korten states that police appear to view John Ramsey as the main suspect.

February 26, 1997: It is announced that investigators have interviewed Patsy's friends and relatives in West Virginia, where she grew up.

February 27, 1997: Alex Hunter, Boulder District Attorney, says police are checking John Andrew's alibi.

March 6, 1997: It is announced that both John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey have been cleared as suspects.

March 8, 1997: Boulder police spend an hour carrying out a second search warrant on the Ramseys' summer home in Charlevoix, Michigan. Unidentified sources tell the Denver Post that police were looking for "unrehearsed" writing samples to determine if Patricia Ramsey wrote a ransom note that demanded $118,000 in exchange for JonBenet.

April 4, 1997: DNA tests begin on evidence found at the crime scene.

April 11, 1997: Patricia Ramsey agrees to hand over a fourth handwriting sample to authorities investigating the murder of the 6-year-old beauty queen.

April 19, 1997: For the first time, Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter publicly identifies John and Patricia Ramsey as the focus of the investigation into their daughter's death. "Obviously, the focus is on these people," he says, when asked if they are suspects. "You can call them what you want to."

April 30, 1997: John and Patricia Ramsey have their first formal interviews with police -- four months after JonBenet was found slain in the family's home. According to the district attorney's office, the meetings mark the first time John and Patricia Ramsey sat down separately to be formally questioned by police with their attorneys present, although both parents discussed the killing with police in the hours after their daughter's body was found.

May 1, 1997: John and Patricia Ramsey publicly proclaim their innocence in their first meeting with reporters since shortly after JonBenet was found murdered. "I did not kill my daughter," John Ramsey tells six local reporters. "I will miss her dearly for the rest of my life." Patricia Ramsey, sitting next to her husband and fighting back tears, said, "I did not kill JonBenet." The couple insist the killer would be found. Said Mrs. Ramsey: "God knows who you are, and we will find you."

May 11, 1997: A newspaper advertisement is published promoting a $100,000 reward in the killing and suggesting a possible suspect.

The new ad, in the Boulder Daily Camera, asks: "Anyone with information regarding a well-dressed male approaching young children around Christmastime, please call."

Investigators in the case have not publicly suggested they were searching for such a person. The reward is funded by the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation, the sole contributor of which, CNN learns, is JonBenet's father, John Ramsey.

May 15, 1997: Genetic test results from crime scene evidence in the killing of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey are returned to investigators, but police decline to release any results.

Investigators caution reporters not to expect a "smoking gun" from the DNA tests, and say it might take weeks to analyze the results.

July 12, 1997: JonBenet's bedroom furniture and other belongings are on a moving van, on their way to her parents' new home in suburban Atlanta, near where the slain 6-year-old beauty queen is buried.

July 14, 1997: Details from her long-sealed autopsy report are released under court order and show JonBenet Ramsey died a brutal death.

The report details a deep ligature around the victim's neck and another around the right wrist -- evidence she was bound and strangled.

The autopsy confirms that blood and abrasions were found in the girl's vaginal area -- and that she was struck on the head violently enough to cause bleeding and an 8.5 inch fracture to her skull.

July 23, 1997: John Ramsey says the news media have behaved like "sharks," trying to profit from his family's tragedy.

Ramsey also announces that he plans to step up the search for his daughter's killer, now that he is "confident" police are looking at suspects other than him and his wife Patsy.

In an interview with a computer trade magazine, Ramsey again denied that he had anything to do with the death of his daughter.

"We're normal human beings and a good family that loved our children more than anything in the world," said Ramsey. "The question that I'd like to ask some of these [media] people is,'Would you kill your daughter or child?' No. Then why would you think I would?"

August 13, 1997: The full autopsy report is released. The coroner who first examined the body of JonBenet Ramsey says the murdered 6-year-old girl had a white cord wrapped around her neck that was attached to a stick with the word "Korea" written on it.

The report, released over the objections of investigators, was made public to comply with a judge's order. It confirmed much of what has been made public, but it does not, as expected, indicate the time of death.

Portions of the report released earlier indicated the girl had a fractured skull and was strangled. Evidence of sexual assault was inconclusive, although previous information indicated she had "chronic inflammation of the vaginal wall."

August 26, 1997: Boulder police spokeswoman Leslie Aaholm says police are still "months away" from forwarding evidence gathered in the murder investigation to the District Attorney's Office.

September 8, 1997: District Attorney Alex Hunter releases a photocopy of the ransom note found in the Ramsey home eight hours before JonBenet Ramsey's body was discovered on December 26.

September 9, 1997: Investigators from the Boulder County District Attorney's Office and the Boulder Police Department meet with members of the FBI's Child Abduction and Serial Crimes Unit to discuss the case. According to an FBI spokesman, the purpose of the meeting was to come up with a profile or criminal investigative analysis to help police narrow the focus of their investigation to a few suspects.

September 29, 1997: Authorities release 65 pages of search warrants and related documents that allowed police to spend eight days going through the Colorado home of John and Patsy Ramsey. The Ramseys had objected to the release of the search warrants, arguing their right to privacy would be violated.

October 10, 1997: Boulder Police Chief Tom Koby names Cmdr. Mark Beckner to take over the Ramsey investigation from Cmdr. John Eller, who headed the probe for nine months. Koby acknowledges mistakes in the investigation, saying, "If we had it to do all over again, we would do it differently."

November 17, 1997: District Judge Richard W. May orders that documents involving a search of the summer home of John and Patsy Ramsey be made public, but rules that some of the information could be blacked out.

November 19, 1997: Boulder Police Chief Tom Koby says he will retire at the end of 1998 but plans to decide whether to charge someone with the Ramsey murder within six months.

December 5, 1997: Lead police investigator Mark Beckner says John and Patsy Ramsey "remain under an umbrella of suspicion" and will be questioned again.

December 9, 1997: Ramsey friends report that investigators are searching for the owner of certain types of shoes, leading some observers to speculate police may have footprint evidence. December 5

January 16, 1998: John and Patsy Ramsey won't give Boulder police another interview unless investigators show them all the evidence gathered in the murder of JonBenet. But police say letting the couple and their legal team see the files might compromise the year-old investigation.

February 15, 1998: Boulder police lose evidence collected in the case, forcing them to re-trace some investigative steps taken in the 14-month investigation. Detectives have told friends of the Ramseys they no longer have records of some interviews and palm prints the friends had given.

March 10, 1998: District Attorney Alex Hunter indicates that the 15-month-old murder case of JonBenet Ramsey could be headed for a grand jury. Grand jury proceedings, which are secret, are akin to preliminary hearings in a criminal case in determining whether someone should be bound over for trial. A grand jury may issue an indictment to arrest someone for probable cause, a lower standard than the "beyond reasonable doubt' threshold that must be met to find someone guilty at trial. March 10

June 25, 1998: JonBenet's parents are interviewed by investigators from the Boulder County district attorney's office. Attorneys for John and Patsy Ramsey had said they were willing to cooperate with the district attorney's office in its investigation now that police have turned over the case to Alex Hunter's office.

June 26, 1998: An investigator at the district attorney's office questions Burke Ramsey for some six hours.

August 8, 1998: Steve Thomas, a lead detective in the investigation, resigns, saying prosecutors have "crippled" the case by not supporting the investigators and cooperating too much with Ramsey family lawyers.

August 13, 1998: Governor Roy Romer announces that the investigation will go to a Boulder County grand jury.

September 15, 1998: A grand jury convenes to hear evidence in the case. The jurors, eight women and four men receive an overview from the district attorney's office.

January 28, 1999: Hunter asks public's help in locating manufacturer of a toy bear in a Santa Claus suit reportedly found in JonBenet's room.

March 20, 1999: More than three years after the strangled body of their 6-year-old daughter JonBen%C3%A9t was discovered in their Colorado home, the Ramseys have broken their silence to discuss the tragedy of their daughter's death, and to answer the nagging questions in the minds of the American public.

September 17, 1999: A former detective, Linda Arndt, in the JonBen%C3%A9t Ramsey case told ABC NEWS she knows who killed the young girl, but doubts they will ever be prosecuted.

September 23, 1999: Grand jury returns to work for the first time since May 25.

October 7-12, 1999: With Oct. 20 grand jury deadline nearing, panel meets several more times as speculation mounts that decision whether to indict anyone is near.

October 13, 1999: District attorney announces that no indictments issued; cites lack of sufficient evidence.

Dec. 2, 1999: Regana Rapp, 29, who along with her husband was accused of providing confidential information about the JonBenet investigation to a tabloid, pleads guilty to racketeering. Under a plea agreement, Rapp received a two-year deferred sentence and 50 hours of community service.

Dec. 20, 1999: Craig Lewis, editor of the supermarket tabloid, Globe, was arrested after being indicted on extortion and bribery charges for his efforts to obtain information about the JonBenet case. The indictment accuses Lewis of offering $30,000 for a copy of the ransom note that Patsy Ramsey reported finding hours before her daughter was found dead.

J anuary 13, 2000: Grand jury prosecutor Michael Kane and famed criminalist Dr. Henry Lee will return to Colorado this month to confer with Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter on the JonBenet Ramsey case.

Sources close to the case say those meetings are slated for Jan. 26 and 27.

It will represent the first meeting among the three men since just before the Oct. 13 conclusion of the grand jury investigation into the 6-year-old's 1996 slaying.

January 28, 2000: Famed criminalist Henry Lee called the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation a "warm case" Thursday.

But, after a half-day meeting with prosecutors, police and analysts Thursday, the 3-year-old murder case appeared no closer to being solved.

February 7, 2000: Ramsey deposition reveals turmoil

JonBenet's father talks about seeking slaying suspects, estrangement from his former friends. The deposition was part of a libel lawsuit filed by photographer Stephen Miles against the National Enquirer and Ramsey. The lawsuit accused Ramsey of leaking information to the tabloid as to who committed the murder.

February 27, 2000: A private therapist from San Luis Obispo, California said Friday that she stands behind her client who claims to have crucial information to help investigators of the death of JonBenet Ramsey.

Mary Bienkowski, a licensed marriage, family and child counselor, said her client gave police names of individuals who are witnesses in the killing of JonBenet as well as ongoing sexual and physical abuse of other children.

February 27, 2000: Perfect Murder, Perfect Town movie airs at 8 tonight.

February 28, 2000: Ramsey tipster painted as unreliable

California cops cite history of false reports; Boulder assigns 3 detectives to verify claims Sheriff's officials here say the woman claiming to have information critical to the JonBenet Ramsey murder case has a history of making false reports.

Among several alleged false claims, San Luis Obispo County sheriff's officials said investigators spent hundreds of hours looking into the woman's claim in 1991 that she had been raped, which an investigation never confirmed.

March 4, 2000: A Jefferson County judge Friday refused to disqualify the prosecutor from the case of a man indicted in the attempted sale of the JonBenet Ramsey ransom note.

Lawyers for former lawyer Thomas Miller wanted prosecutor Dennis Hall thrown off the case because he reported Miller for calling CBI agents "a bunch of f------ Nazis" and giving Hall the Nazi salute after court hearings in December.

March 6, 2000: Boulder police detectives will be in San Luis Obispo, Calif., Wednesday to interview the therapist of a woman who claims to have information possibly connected to the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation.

Mary Bienkowski, a licensed family therapist, said detectives have scheduled to meet with her to discuss her client, a 37-year-old sexual assault victim who has been seeing Bienkowski for 10 years.

Bienkowski said she believes her client may have important information about widespread sex rings that involve the abuse of children and might provide a possible link to the Dec. 26, 1996, strangulation and beating death of JonBenet Ramsey.

She said she encouraged her client to take the information to Boulder police so it could be investigated.

Bienkowski has since become critical of the department and reluctant to cooperate with police.

March 17, 2000: Barbara Walter's Special on 20/20 aired. For the first time on television, actual police photographs of the crime scene was shown. The Ramseys' story%E2%80%A6 All the questions answered with no lawyers present%E2%80%A6 No holds barred...

March 17, 2000: The Ramseys release their book, "The Death of Innocence," about their daughter's death and launch a national media campaign to promote it.

March 2000: The Ramseys settle a $25 million lawsuit against the supermarket tabloid, Star, for stories linking JonBenet's death to Burke, who was 9 at the time of his sister's killing. Boulder police have said Burke is not a suspect.

March 9, 2000: Boulder DA announces retirement and makes statement

Boulder County District Attorney Alex Hunter, often criticized for his handling of the unsolved JonBenet Ramsey slaying, on Thursday announced he will not run again, saying he did everything he could with the evidence he had.

March 10, 2000: The first copies of John and Patsy Ramsey's book were placed under armed guard behind a barbed-wire fence because of concerns its contents would be leaked before sales begin March 17.

March 13, 2000: A veteran homicide detective, who believes an intruder killed JonBenet Ramsey, has broken his silence on the case.

In an interview with Newsweek that hits stands today, retired El Paso County sheriff's investigator Andrew "Lou" Smit outlined previously undisclosed evidence that led him to believe that John and Patsy Ramsey are not responsible for their daughter's death.

March 13, 2000: Wounds found on JonBenet Ramsey's face appear to match a particular type of stun gun, Arapahoe County's coroner said Monday.

Dr. Michael Doberson said he recently examined photos of injuries found on the chin and lower back of slain 6-year-old beauty queen and compared them to a Taser stun gun.

"It just looked to me, superficially, that it fits," Doberson said.

The two electrodes on the end of the stun gun were within a millimeter of the two injuries on the little girl's chin, Doberson said. He also noticed where a small metal bar on the weapon also could have left a mark.

It's the first time a medical authority has confirmed the possibility a stun gun was used on the girl who was found slain in her Boulder family home Dec. 26, 1996.

Prosecutors last year allegedly tried to stop detective Lou Smit from sharing with a grand jury his theory that an intruder killed JonBenet Ramsey.

March 15, 2000: Court documents unsealed Tuesday show Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter obtained a court order in February 1999 prohibiting Smit from testifying before the grand jury investigating the 6-year-old beauty princess's slaying.

March 16, 2000: Gov. Bill Owens isn't buying John and Patsy Ramsey's book or their claim of innocence.

"This book is obviously part of an orchestrated 'the Ramseys are innocent' campaign," Owens said Wednesday. "It's clear, I believe, what they are trying to do -- it's to remove the focus on them as suspects. I don't think it will work."

Owens commented after reading a section of the book in which the Ramseys accuse him of playing politics when he challenged them last fall to "quit hiding behind their attorneys" and return to Colorado to help investigators solve the murder of their daughter, JonBenet.

March 17, 2000: The Walters interview will airs first on the ABC newsmagazine 20/20. It is highly critical of Gov. Bill Owens.

March 20, 2000: Katie Couric begins interviews which will be broadcast in installments on NBC's Today show.

March 21, 2000: An Atlanta lawyer for John and Patsy Ramsey said Monday they have settled a libel lawsuit brought on their son's behalf against a supermarket weekly.

March 21, 2000: There is new evidence in the slaying of JonBenet Ramsey, Gov. Bill Owens said Monday, although that claim left Boulder law enforcement officials somewhat puzzled.

"There was substantial new evidence in October, and there's even some new evidence in the last couple of weeks," Owens said during an appearance on ABC's Good Morning America that produced a heated exchange between him and Barbara Walters.

March 25, 2000: The libel lawyer for John and Patsy Ramsey has begun collecting evidence that might lead to defamation suits against the couple's most vocal critics, including radio talk show host Peter Boyles and Gov. Bill Owens.

"There are so many targets to potentially pursue," attorney Lin Wood said Friday. "It would be an ideal world if they could sue everyone who defamed them. But we'll try to focus on a handful of major figures."

April 10, 2000: A former lead detective in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case says he believes the mother of the slain girl wrote the ransom note that was in the family home the day her daughter's body was found.

In an interview on ABC's Good Morning America, Steve Thomas, who resigned in protest of what he called the lack of aggressive prosecution of the case, said Patsy Ramsey wrote the note.

April 28, 2000: John and Patsy Ramsey went on national television to say they are willing to take a lie detector test, but the test must be given by someone selected by their lawyers.

Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner rejected the offer.

May 2, 2000: Police and prosecutors in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case reviewed hair and fiber analysis from FBI experts Tuesday in their first meeting since January.

Chief Mark Beckner and Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter would not discuss what they heard or assess what impact the latest analysis of forensic evidence in the December 1996 murder might have on the course of the investigation.

May 2, 2000: A candidate for Boulder District Attorney said Tuesday that he knows who killed JonBenet Ramsey, and he will seek an arrest in January if he's elected.

Attorney Ben Thompson, who is challenging prosecutors Trip DeMuth and Mary Keenan for the Democratic nomination for district attorney, said he knows evidence in the case and has a team of people %E2%80%94 including former Boulder detective Steve Thomas who wrote a book about the Ramsey case %E2%80%94 who would help him take a case to court next year.

May 3, 2000: FBI experts will conduct more tests on evidence for Boulder police investigating the JonBenet Ramsey murder case, authorities said Wednesday.

Police and prosecutors involved in the investigation of the 6-year-old's murder concluded a two-day meeting about the case by asking FBI analysts to do more examinations of some of the 1,200 pieces of evidence collected by police in the lengthy investigation, said Police Chief Mark Beckner.

May 8, 2000: The Ramseys file libel suits against the New York Post and Time Warner for $4 million each, saying they libeled the Ramseys' son, Burke, by portraying him as the prime suspect in his sister's murder. (Time Warner is the parent company of CNN.com)

May 11, 2000: The Ramseys file two multimillion-dollar lawsuits claiming a book and a supermarket tabloid falsely accused their son Burke of molesting and killing his sister. The suits were filed in Atlanta and Austin, Texas, against the Globe and Windsor House Publishing Group, the publishers of "A Little Girl's Dream? A JonBenet Ramsey Story."

May 15, 2000: Police said Monday they have found no evidence to support a California woman's theory that JonBenet Ramsey was killed by a child sex ring.

"We concluded there is no evidence to support her claims," said Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner. "We looked at her allegations to see if there was any connection at all to the Ramsey case, and we could not find any."

May 18, 2000: Supermarket weekly editor Craig Lewis and former Boulder attorney Thomas Miller have lost their bid to sidestep charges of commercial bribery and extortion by having the statutes declared unconstitutional.

Jefferson County District Judge Jane Tidball upheld the constitutionality of both statutes in a ruling.

John and Patsy Ramsey taped a segment on James Robison's program in the Tarrant County suburb of Euless that will air in mid-July, producers said.

May 22, 2000: Police have new questions for John and Patsy Ramsey in the investigation of their daughter's death, police Chief Mark Beckner disclosed Wednesday.

Beckner said additional questions have arisen since a Boulder grand jury concluded an inquiry in October 1999 without indicting a suspect.

May 22, 2000: The Ramseys announce at a news conference that the results of their lie detector tests say they were not involved in the death of their daughter JonBenet, and that neither knows who killed her. The tests were not administered by the FBI and therefore not acceptable to Boulder, Colorado, authorities.

May 30, 2000: The parents of JonBenet Ramsey discuss the death of the 6-year-old beauty queen and their religion on a Texas television evangelist's talk show to be aired later in the summer.

May 30, 2000: Patsy Ramsey challenged former Boulder Detective Steve Thomas to accuse her face-to-face on national television of killing JonBenet.

June 3, 2000: John and Patsy Ramsey have posted on their Internet site a psychic's composite sketch of a suspect in their daughter's strangulation.

The sketch is based on the work of the late psychic, Dorothy Allison. The Web site, www.ramseyfamily.com, asks: "Have you seen this man? This man may have been in the Boulder area in December 1996. ... We firmly believe that this most horrible of killers will be caught based on information provided by people who care about right and wrong. ... Please help, so another innocent child will not be a victim and another family will not suffer unbearable grief."

June 19, 2000: Private lie detector tests taken by John and Patsy Ramsey to prove their innocence in the death of their daughter, JonBenet, didn't sway public opinion in Colorado, a new poll shows.

Only one in eight Coloradans in the Colorado News Poll said they believed the results of the polygraph tests showing the parents were not involved in the December 1996 death of the 6-year-old in Boulder.

July 6, 2000: John and Patsy Ramsey are selling their recently renovated Atlanta home to help pay huge legal expenses, their attorney said on Thursday.

"They reached a point financially where they had to sell it," said Lin Wood, the Atlanta libel lawyer who represents the Ramseys now. They still owe money to their criminal defense attorneys, hired shortly after the battered body of their 6-year-old daughter, JonBenet, was found in the basement of their Boulder home on Dec. 26, 1996.

July 10, 2000: John and Patsy Ramsey have agreed to meet in Atlanta with Boulder detectives investigating the slaying of their daughter, their attorney said Monday.

Attorney Lin Wood said he suggested seven potential dates this week or next week for police detectives and prosecutors to meet separately with the Ramseys in his Atlanta office. He also said the family has not imposed any conditions on the interviews, except that Wood be present during them.

August 1, 2000: Police review evidence again in an unsolved 1997 sexual assault case to see if it might be connected to the 31/2-year-old slaying of JonBenet Ramsey.

Beckner said detectives in September 1997 compared evidence and circumstances surrounding the unsolved case to the December 1996 slaying of 6-year-old JonBenet, who was found dead in her parents' basement.

August 1, 2000: Fleet and Priscilla White file criminal libel suit.

August 10, 2000: The former housekeeper for JonBenet Ramsey's family filed a federal lawsuit Thursday seeking permission to use her secret grand jury testimony in a book.

The lawsuit contends a state secrecy rule violates the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees freedom of speech.

August 10, 2000: Several news organizations and journalists are targets of a Boulder police investigation into whether they criminally libeled Ramsey murder case witness Fleet White.

Denver lawyer Tom Kelley, a specialist in libel and other First Amendment issues, said Friday the criminal libel statute has never been used against a news organization or journalist.

August 28, 2000: John and Patsy Ramsey's lawyer nearly called an early end to the Boulder police interview of his clients Monday, angrily calling the questioning a "fishing expedition."

Ramsey attorney Lin Wood said the investigators made progress during a four-hour morning session when attorney Bruce Levin asked questions. But the interviews deteriorated after special prosecutor Michael Kane took over in the afternoon.

August 29, 2000: Police concluded two days of interviews Tuesday with John and Patsy Ramsey without all the information they'd sought during their first meeting with the couple in three years.

The Ramseys complimented Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner after finishing more than 10 hours of interviews in the Atlanta office of their attorney, Lin Wood.

August 30, 2000: Boulder's police chief accused the lawyer of John and Patsy Ramsey Wednesday of jeopardizing the investigation into the death of their daughter.

The Ramseys' libel lawyer Lin Wood released a 22-minute segment of videotaped interviews of the Ramseys to support his charge a special prosecutor was overzealous in his questioning.

August 30, 2000: Prosecutors will not ask a court to release any portion of testimony before a grand jury that investigated JonBenet Ramsey's murder last year.

Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter said Thursday that he and special prosecutor Mike Kane, who led the 13-month investigation that ended in October 1999, could not release any of the transcripts and would not ask a judge to do so.

January 9, 2001: When prosecutor Mary Keenan is sworn in as district attorney today, it will mark the end of Hunter's 28-year reign as the county's top prosecutor.

January 9, 2001: Parents still in Ramsey murder spotlight. None of Boulder County's unsolved homicides has received more attention than the Christmas-night 1996 slaying of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey .

After more than four years of expensive investigation %E2%80%94 along with myriad fights between police and prosecutors, police resignations and civil suits %E2%80%94 not much has changed.

February 16, 2001: A series of behind-the-scenes controversies that marked the first two years of the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation will unfold publicly in May when a former Boulder detective's lawsuit against her former bosses goes to trial in federal court.

Linda Arndt %E2%80%94 the first detective on the scene of the Dec. 26, 1996, slaying %E2%80%94 filed the suit against current Boulder police Chief Mark Beckner, former Chief Tom Koby and the city of Boulder in 1998. She resigned from the force in 1999.

February 20, 2001: The Ramseys' lawyer reports that John Ramsey surprised a burglar in his Atlanta home and fought with the man before the intruder fled.

March 15, 2001: An order was issued, demanding the district attorney's office hand over all documents connected with the murder to the paper %E2%80%94 including those from the grand jury %E2%80%94 by Monday.

The order is on hold until a judge rules on the district attorney's motion.

March 17, 2001: While law enforcement agencies increasingly utilize the Internet to help solve murders by putting up Web pages detailing unsolved cases, the general public is already there.

The True Crime magazines and pulp-fiction crime stories have gone the way of rotary phones and typewriters, but amateur sleuths have more than made up for their absence.

Internet sites dedicated to the discussion and solution of murder cases have given anyone with a modem a shot at solving America's high-profile homicides.

March 20, 2001: A lawyer representing a former housekeeper for JonBenet Ramsey 's family says a federal judge's ruling means he can question former Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter, Gov. Bill Owens and other officials.

The statement by attorney Darnay Hoffman came after U.S. District Court Judge Wiley Y. Daniel refused to throw out a lawsuit Hoffman filed for client Linda Hoffmann-Pugh, claiming her civil rights are being violated because state law blocks her from using her grand jury testimony in a book.

Hoffman said the decision would allow the depositions of Hunter, Owens, current Boulder District Attorney Mary Keenan and Michael Kane, who headed the grand jury investigation into JonBenet's death.

March 30, 2001: The Boulder County district attorney asked a federal judge on Thursday to stop the New York Post from seeing stacks of documents from the JonBenet Ramsey investigation.

The newspaper is seeking all documents associated with the 6-year-old's 1996 slaying in Boulder, including those from the grand jury, which disbanded without indicting anyone in the case.

Last May, John and Patsy Ramsey filed a $4 million libel suit against the Post, claiming it falsely alleged that their son, Burke Ramsey , killed JonBenet, that he was the prime suspect in her killing and that his representatives were %E2%80%9Cin secret plea bargain negotiations%E2%80%9D with the prosecutor.

Post Publisher Ken Chandler has said the Ramseys ' case was frivolous.

The subpoena, issued March 15, orders the district attorney's office to hand the documents over on April 2.

April 21, 2001: Former Ramsey family friend Fleet R. White, Jr. is attempting to revive a now-dormant investigation in which he is seeking criminal charges against journalists who last year wrote stories mentioning him in the JonBenet Ramsey slaying.

White, who was with John Ramsey when he discovered his 6-year-old daughter's body in the family's basement, also hopes to convince Attorney General Ken Salazar to launch a grand jury investigation into allegations that media members criminally libeled him in stories spurred by a California woman's claim she was sexually assaulted as a child.

April 27, 2001: A former investigator for the district attorney's office says he plans to release crime scene photos of the JonBenet Ramsey investigation next week over the objections of the district attorney.

Retired Colorado Springs Detective Lou Smit says the information, some of which has never been released, points to the strong likelihood that an intruder, and not 6-year-old JonBenet's parents, killed the girl in 1996. The parents remain under police suspicion.

May 1, 2001: A retired investigator who was involved in the JonBenet Ramsey case presented photos on national television Monday that he says support a theory that an intruder killed the 6-year-old.

The photos, including a picture of a white cord wrapped around the child's wrist, were shown on NBC's %E2%80%9CToday%E2%80%9D show by retired homicide Detective Lou Smit, who initiated the intruder theory.

A former investigator said Tuesday police ignored evidence that a stun gun may have been used on JonBenet Ramsey because it didn't fit their theory that her parents killed her.

May 2, 2001: Lou Smit, a retired homicide detective, appeared on NBC's %E2%80%9CToday%E2%80%9D show as part of a weeklong series on the death of 6-year-old JonBenet, found beaten and strangled in the basement of her Boulder home on Dec. 26, 1996.

%E2%80%9CToday%E2%80%9D aired autopsy photos provided by Smit showing red marks on JonBenet's face and back he believes were caused by a stun gun.

JonBenet Ramsey 's killer acted out a sexual fantasy that included tying the girl up to give the appearance of bondage, a retired investigator said on NBC's %E2%80%9CToday%E2%80%9D show Wednesday.

May 3, 2001: Lou Smit, who worked on the case, also said unidentified DNA under JonBenet's fingernails and on her underpants point to an intruder as the culprit, not her parents.

%E2%80%9CToday%E2%80%9D is airing parts of an interview with Smit over five days this week. The Colorado Springs man was coaxed out of retirement by former District Attorney Alex Hunter to help investigate the Dec. 26, 1996, death of 6-year-old JonBenet.

May 4, 2001: Nearly four years ago, former Boulder County prosecutor Trip DeMuth and sheriff's Detective Steve Ainsworth were the subject of a state investigation for allegedly stealing information from a %E2%80%9Cwar room%E2%80%9D computer regarding the JonBenet Ramsey murder.

This week, DeMuth and Ainsworth appeared on NBC's %E2%80%9CToday%E2%80%9D show with investigator Lou Smit, who is advocating that an intruder beat and strangled 6-year-old JonBenet on Dec. 26, 1996.

May 14, 2001: The first detective on the scene at the home of JonBenet Ramsey says in an affidavit that she feared for her life and believed a friend of Patsy Ramsey was stalking her, The Boulder Daily Camera reported Sunday.

Linda Arndt, in papers filed in U.S. District Court in a lawsuit against the Boulder Police Department, also said she had kept some of her case notes after resigning because she feared the department would lose them.

The claims were made in affidavits filed last week in Denver U.S. District Court. Arndt also said former Police Chief Tom Koby told her that he believed Patsy Ramsey was responsible for the death of JonBenet. Arndt is quoted in the affidavit as saying the evidence points to John Ramsey as being responsible.

May 15, 2001: The first detective on the scene of the JonBenet Ramsey murder has said she determined John Ramsey had killed his daughter only seconds after he found the child's body but admitted she had no evidence to support her opinion.

Former Boulder Detective Linda Arndt made the revelation in a deposition for her lawsuit against the Boulder Police Department, which now appears ready to go to trial on May 29.

U.S. District Judge William Downes on Monday denied a motion by Boulder's attorneys to dismiss the case, but dismissed the part of the suit that claims the department violated Colorado law.

May 31, 2001: John and Patsy Ramsey asked Colorado Attorney General Ken Salazar to intervene in the investigation of their daughter's slaying and appoint outside investigators to look into evidence that could indicate she was killed by an intruder.

If he refuses, they said they want Boulder police and the district attorney's office to publicly state there is not enough evidence to charge them now in the death of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey .

June 6, 2001: A Boulder police detective testified that she lost $200,000 in wages and couldn't find other work because her supervisors wouldn't dispute allegations that she bungled the investigation of JonBenet Ramsey's death. Linda Arndt, 40, told a federal jury that she was forced to tap her retirement account after resigning from the Boulder Police Department in April 1999. She said she unsuccessfully pursued more than 30 jobs before finally accepting a tree-trimming job in Boulder.

J une 11, 2001: The ongoing civil trial of former police Detective Linda Arndt versus the city of Boulder could severely damage any future criminal prosecution in the homicide of JonBenet Ramsey, legal experts agree. Arndt is suing the city, former police Chief Tom Koby and current Chief Mark Beckner in federal court, claiming violation of her First Amendment rights. She claims Koby and Beckner prevented her from defending herself against negative news-media reports of her handling of the Ramsey case.

June 12, 2001: A judge dismissed a lawsuit filed by a former Boulder police detective who said her bosses unfairly blamed her for mistakes in the JonBenet Ramsey investigation. U.S. District Judge William Downes ruled Tuesday, after two weeks of testimony, that Linda Arndt failed to prove the chiefs violated her First Amendment rights by preventing her from commenting on allegations that she bungled the investigation. Arndt, 40, was the first detective to arrive at the Ramsey home on Dec.

Attorneys for a lawyer accused of bribery for trying to buy the JonBenet Ramsey ransom note said Tuesday he was charged only because attorneys for JonBenet's parents pressured the district attorney in an attempt to destroy his credibility.

June 13, 2001: Attorneys for Thomas Miller said during opening statements in his Jefferson County District Court trial that John and Patsy Ramsey want to discredit Miller, a certified handwriting analyst, because he had concluded publicly that Patsy Ramsey wrote the note and could be called to testify if either Ramsey is ever charged.

June 17, 2001: The parents of JonBenet Ramsey are suing Court TV for $70 million, claiming that the cable network falsely named their son Burke as a prime suspect in his sister's murder. John and Patsy Ramsey contend in the lawsuit filed Friday that 12-year-old Burke Ramsey was defamed by a Court TV program and a related Web site that named him and his parents as the focus of the police investigation of JonBenet's slaying.

J uly 5, 2001: No indictments were ever issued in the Boulder, Colo., grand jury proceedings that ended in 1999 and neither was any report ever issued, meaning under Colorado rules that grand jury witnesses had to keep their testimony secret indefinitely. Linda Hoffmann-Pugh, who wants to write a book about her experience working for John and Patsy Ramsey when they lived in Colorado, sued Boulder's current district attorney, Mary Keenan, arguing the state's strict secrecy rule for grand juries was unconstitutional. U.S. District Judge Wiley Daniel agreed, ruling that Hoffmann-Pugh could repeat what she testified before the grand jury in 1999.

July 28, 2001: The Boulder County District Attorney's Office is fighting a subpoena from the New York Post seeking access to reams of documents from the JonBenet Ramsey investigation.

U.S. District Judge Walker D. Miller heard arguments Friday about whether the district attorney's office should turn over files associated with the 6-year-old's 1996 slaying. He asked the sides to come up with proposals on how a review of the documents could be limited.

The district attorney's office said the request is too broad and would force the agency to conduct a burdensome review of tens of thousands of documents, some of which contain information privileged because of the ongoing investigation into the unsolved slaying.

%E2%80%9CThey are seeking to go through every single record in the JonBenet investigation and decide on their own what they need,%E2%80%9D said Andrew Macdonald, representing the district attorney. %E2%80%9CWe can't just allow them to come in with a copy machine and start sorting through the files.%E2%80%9D

The newspaper said it needs to review the documents to defend against a defamation lawsuit John and Patsy Ramsey filed over a Post article linking their son, Burke, to his sister's death.

August 17, 2001: Police investigating the murder of child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey are having DNA tests conducted on an item submitted by an Internet tipster, a new lead in the nearly five-year-old case, officials said on Friday. "We did receive a tip, a piece of information we thought worth testing," said Boulder Police Department spokeswoman Jana Petersen. She declined to identify the item that has been turned over to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation for tests. The body of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey was found in the basement of the family's home in Boulder, Colorado, in December 1996.

August 31, 2001: It is reported that Patsy Ramsey has challenged the Boulder police to file charges against her if they think they can prove that she killed her daughter.

September 2, 2001: Former police Detective Steve Thomas has been ordered to give a deposition in a defamation lawsuit filed by a former reporter named as a possible suspect by the parents of JonBenet Ramsey .

At issue is a book written by John and Patsy Ramsey which named former housekeeper Linda Hoffmann-Pugh and Boulder-area journalist Chris Wolf as suspects in the slaying.

Thomas argued he should not be forced to give a deposition in the Wolf case because of a separate lawsuit filed against him by the Ramseys . Atlanta U.S. District Judge Julie Carnes on Friday disagreed.

Thomas must submit to examination under oath, prior to the end of September.

September 9, 2001: Colorado investigators are seeking the identity of an America Online subscriber who posted a message on an Internet bulletin board saying he witnessed the 1996 slaying of 6-year-old beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey. Boulder Police Detective Thomas Trujillo asked Loudoun County investigators to file a search warrant in Loudoun Circuit Court asking AOL for the subscriber's name, other screen names, e-mail files, buddy lists and aliases. According to the affidavit for the warrant, Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner received an e-mail on Aug. 8 from an AOL user saying that a "confession" had been posted on a Web site devoted to JonBenet.

December 6, 2001: Ramseys To Testify in $50 Million Lawsuit.

December 13, 2001: A lawyer who had up to seven hours to question the mother of JonBenet Ramsey under oath accomplished little while taking a deposition, Patsy Ramsey 's attorney said.

Darnay Hoffman, who is representing former Boulder reporter Chris Wolf in a civil libel lawsuit, questioned Ramsey for about three hours Tuesday in the offices of her Atlanta lawyer, L. Lin Wood.

December 19, 2001: Retired cop continues seeking justice for JonBenet, keeps adding to his library of leads. Nobody's paying him now, not even the Ramseys, he said. He works only for JonBenet. He keeps her picture in his home office. "My work," he said, explaining his passion, "is my hobby."

December 22, 2001: It's one of the biggest murder mysteries in the annals of American crime, and after almost five years of fruitless investigation there is still no answer to "Who killed JonBenet?" Despite spending $1.7 million and interviewing 650 people, Boulder, Colorado police are still unable to solve the crime and charge anyone with the slaying of six-year-old child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey on December 26, 1996. Police have said the girl's wealthy parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, are under an "umbrella of suspicion.

February 16, 2002: Recurrance of Cancer Found in Patsy Ramsey.

March 20, 2002: An ex-detective who wrote a book accusing John and Patsy Ramsey of killing their daughter will pay the couple an undisclosed sum to settle their $80 million libel lawsuit. Former police detective Steve Thomas, co-author Don Davis and publisher St. Martin's Press are participating in the settlement, Ramsey attorney L. Lin Wood said Tuesday. He would not say how the three will divide the payment.

July 4, 2002: Former Ramsey family friend Fleet White Jr. and his wife, Priscilla, have filed a lawsuit in district court asking a judge to order the Boulder Police Department to turn over numerous documents related to the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation.

White, who was with John Ramsey when he discovered his 6-year-old daughter's body in the family's basement in December 1996, is seeking documents pertaining to a California woman's claim she was sexually assaulted as a child, according to the lawsuit.

%E2%80%9CDuring the (California woman's) investigation, plaintiffs learned that (the woman) had falsely reported to the Boulder police that she had been a victim of serious and violent crimes committed by members of plaintiffs' family including plaintiff Fleet Russell White Jr.,%E2%80%9D the lawsuit states.

August 23, 2002: L. Lin Wood, the Ramseys' attorney, tells the Rocky Mountain News that Mrs. Ramsey is making progress in her treatment for a recurrence of cancer, diagnosed Feb. 12.

August 24, 2002: Investigators have concluded that both a palm print and a footprint found in the home of JonBenet Ramsey were actually made by family members, not an intruder as some have suggested, the Rocky Mountain News reported Friday. Investigators believe the prints found in the basement of the home were not related to the unsolved killing of the 6-year-old beauty queen, whose body was found Dec. 26, 1996. Investigators have known the answers for some time, the newspaper reported.

September 7, 2002: The Santa Claus figure in the JonBen%C3%A9t Ramsey murder case died over the weekend from a heart attack.

Bill McReynolds was found dead in his Mashpee, Mass., home Monday by his wife, Janet, when she returned from a weekend trip. He was 72.

McReynolds, a former University of Colorado journalism professor, portrayed Santa Claus at the Ramseys' home for the third consecutive year in 1996 %E2%80%94 two nights before the 6-year-old was found slain.

September 14, 2002: A district judge will consider a request by two former friends of JonBenet Ramsey's family for access to some of the police files kept in the investigation into the girl's 1996 slaying.

Fleet White Jr. and his wife, Priscilla, have asked officials to turn over files involving a California woman's claims that the Whites were part of a child sex abuse ring that contributed to JonBenet's death. Police have said there is no evidence to support the woman's theory.

Boulder District Judge Lael Montgomery told the couple at a hearing Thursday that she will rule on the request.

September 25, 2002: The former Boulder police detective who was first on the scene when the body of JonBenet Ramsey was discovered should be allowed to rebut allegations that she botched portions of the investigation, her lawyers told a federal appeals court Tuesday.

A federal judge in June 2001 dismissed a lawsuit filed by Linda Arndt, who claimed that her supervisors in the Boulder Police Department used her as a scapegoat and then refused to allow her to hold a news conference to defend herself.

A lawyer representing the city of Boulder told a three-judge panel of the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that Arndt's desire to defend her reputation could jeopardize the investigation into the unsolved slaying, and therefore she does not enjoy free-speech protections under the First Amendment.

September 27, 2002: A district judge ruled Thursday that she will review a portion of the JonBenet Ramsey investigation files to determine if any of it should be seen by a Boulder couple who claim they were unfairly linked to the 6-year-old girl's death.

%E2%80%9CThe Court is not persuaded that the public's interest would be served in any fashion by preventing these people access to the now-discredited accusations which had been leveled against them in such an extraordinarily public way,%E2%80%9D District Judge Lael Montgomery wrote in her ruling.

Earlier this month, former Ramsey family friend Fleet White Jr. asked Montgomery to order Boulder police to give him investigative records from the murder case detailing accusations that he was involved in a child-sex ring and may have had a part in JonBenet's death.

October 4, 2002: More than a year after the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, an investigator suggested to her mother that physical evidence linked her to the slaying, according to a videotaped police interview.

The interview, shown on CBS "48 Hours", is used in a segment called "Searching for a Killer."

It was not clear who made the video available to the network. Boulder police insist they did not.

October 17, 2002: A former newspaper tabloid writer has filed a libel lawsuit against the publisher and author of the JonBenet Ramsey book %E2%80%9CPerfect Murder, Perfect Town.%E2%80%9D

The book by Lawrence Schiller was published by Harper Collins Publishers Inc. in February 1999 in hardcover and in November 1999 in paperback.

Jeffrey Shapiro, 29, who wrote about JonBenet's death for the Globe, filed his lawsuit last week in U.S. District Court in Albuquerque, N.M., where the statute of limitations is less restrictive.

The lawsuit alleges that %E2%80%9CPerfect Murder, Perfect Town%E2%80%9D contains a libelous statement regarding a plot by Globe editors to try to extort information on the case from former Boulder detective Steve Thomas.

October 24, 2002: The Boulder County District Attorney's Office filed a motion earlier this week to have a special prosecutor once again look into accusations that media outlets committed criminal libel in a series of stories related to the JonBenet Ramsey murder.

The claims come from Fleet and Priscilla White, who contend that the Boulder Daily Camera implicated Fleet White as having a part in JonBenet's death by reporting on claims made by a California woman. The White's also claim that other media outlets might have committed libel by following up on the stories.

November 21, 2002: For the first time in six years, a portion of the Boulder Police Department's JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation file is being made available to the public.

However, police have deemed the details in the 285-page file %E2%80%94 which is at the center of a criminal libel complaint by a former friend of the Ramseys who claims the records unfairly link him to the 6-year-old's murder %E2%80%94 not credible.

Before making the records public, Judge Lael Montgomery already had allowed the Boulder man, Fleet White Jr., access to the file despite the Boulder Police Department's objections.

November 29, 2002: A confidant of John and Patsy Ramsey said she sold handwriting samples and interrogation transcripts from their daughter's murder investigation to a supermarket tabloid for $40,000.

Susan ***, 51, of Hickory, N.C., told the Rocky Mountain News she sold the material to the National Enquirer because she believed that its publication would prove the Ramseys ' innocence.

It was used in the tabloid's Dec. 3 edition in a 31-page story headlined: %E2%80%9CJonBenet Secret Video Evidence: New Clues Expose Mom & Dad!,%E2%80%9D on newsstands today.

Ramsey attorney L. Lin Wood said the couple feels betrayed that a friend would sell information. Wood said tabloids have cast suspicion on the parents throughout the six years of reporting on the unsolved case.

December 6, 2002: A newly released court document shows a DNA sample was discovered nearly two years after JonBenet Ramsey's slaying. The document, released this week, is a 192-page transcript of Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner's deposition in a civil case involving the 6-year-old girl's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey. JonBenet Ramsey The sample was discovered sometime after September 1998, when a Boulder County grand jury convened to investigate the December 1996 slaying. It is unclear where the DNA was discovered, but Beckner said it did not come from JonBenet's body or clothing, where previously disclosed DNA was found.

December 22, 2002: Boulder District Attorney Mary Keenan voiced strong concerns about whether she could restore credibility to her office in the days before she finally took control of the JonBent Ramsey murder investigation on Friday, The Denver Post has learned.

December 23, 2002: Boulder District Attorney Mary Keenan said that her office's investigation will be conducted without police help for the first time and will follow leads not previously investigated. John and Patsy Ramsey have requested a new direction since the body of JonBenet, 6, was found strangled and beaten in the family basement Dec. 26, 1996. A key factor in the decision to reopen the investigation was Miss Keenan's "belief that the Boulder Police Department has done an exhaustive and thorough investigation of this case.

December 26, 2002: New lawsuits. New investigators. New spins.

In the case that never ends, there is only one thing still certain about the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation %E2%80%94 her killer is still free.

Six years after the news about the death of the 6-year-old started spilling into the nation's consciousness, the Boulder Police Department is calling it quits and handing the investigation over to District Attorney Mary Keenan.

%E2%80%9CWe are not going to have anybody working on the case other than tying up loose ends,%E2%80%9D Chief Mark Beckner said Monday. the Ramseys as potential suspects," Miss Keena

by Anonymousreply 305November 28, 2010 6:58 PM

Any explanation why, a mere 20 minutes after discovering JB's body and moving it to the living room, John was instructing his pilot to get the plane ready for a flight to Atlanta?

by Anonymousreply 306November 28, 2010 8:07 PM

Matching dna was found both in Jon-Benet's underwear and in the longjohns she had on over her underwear. It didn't match her family or anyone in law enforcement. Same with a public hair found on the blanket in which she was wrapped.

There was no snow around the areas that had been left open and were the most likely points of entry for an intruder. Ergo, there could be no footprints.

The no footprints, no forced entry memes were known by the police to be false and were very soon known by the media to be false, but they were repeated on endless loops anyway.

The rope and duct tape that were used on the kid weren't found in the house.

The Ramseys took and passed lie detector tests administered by an independent expert and later reviewed and confirmed by Cleve Baxter, founder of the Central Intelligence Agency's polygraph unit and creator of polygraph scoring techniques which are considered industry standards. No deception.

If you still think the Ramseys did it, it's because you watched too much Hard Copy and probably have one of those "conservative" brains that clings even harder to lies when they are demonstrably proven false.

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by Anonymousreply 307November 28, 2010 9:09 PM

Of course the Ramsey's didnt do it. It was probably some creepy neighborhood pedophile who snuck into their home, waited in the basement for the right moment, and killed her

by Anonymousreply 308November 28, 2010 9:41 PM

pedos don't kill they kidnap r308

by Anonymousreply 309November 28, 2010 9:48 PM

Well, r281, you'd be wrong about Patsy.

by Anonymousreply 310November 28, 2010 9:49 PM

What a [sic] note

by Anonymousreply 311November 28, 2010 9:56 PM

Then why the ransom note? What in the world would cause the murderer to sit down and write a ransom note when the body was right there in the house? It makes no sense whatsoever. The Ramsay's weren't very savvy...they thought the police would look elsewhere. Ramsay probably did not want to search that room but his friend probably insisted and so he had too.

by Anonymousreply 312November 28, 2010 11:04 PM

[quote]there was snow outside, %0D %0D Only patches of snow here and there.

by Anonymousreply 313November 29, 2010 2:06 AM

The Ramseys were highly parasitic. I mean why hide the bike next door if they had these unused rooms in the basement? Fleet White was cooking their Christmas dinner for them and McReynolds providing their entertainment for Xmas. When JBN was "kidnapped" Patsy was calling her friends at 6 in the morning the day after Christmas to come console her! My guess is that he was an empty suit at Access Graphics. 118K bonus is not much for a man with that type of job.%0D

by Anonymousreply 314November 29, 2010 2:16 AM

Their behavior is kind of strange. Why wouldn't they know that the police would need to seach their house for clues? Did they call all those people just to mess up the crime scene? Why didn't the police make these people leave right away...why wasn't the family questioned seperately right away? And what about the pineapple...didn't the autopsy say the child had eaten pineapple right before she died?

by Anonymousreply 315November 29, 2010 3:07 AM

[quote]And what about the pineapple...didn't the autopsy say the child had eaten pineapple right before she died?

Nope. See R291. It was never definitive when she ate the pineapple. Could have been 4:00 the previous afternoon.

Patsy claimed that she reapplied her makeup the following morning, and just grabbed her clothing from the night before and threw it on. Considering it was so early in the morning and the plan was to get on a private plane and only be seen by family, it makes sense she wouldn't be tremendously concerned with her appearance.

It's the touch DNA that throws a monkey wrench into everything. It debunks the theory that the DNA in her underwear could have been left by a manufacturer--there was ten to twelve times the trace amount that is usually found when that happens, and it matched the DNA under her fingernails, which did not match any Ramsey male, including Burke. More importantly, the DNA was comingled with JBR's blood (all the blood found on the body was hers), which would not have been the case had the DNA been left on the underwear before it was purchased. Somebody else was in that house.

I do believe that the house was big enough that if JonBenet didn't scream right away (suggesting that the killer was someone she knew), the murder could have occurred without waking anyone--especially since JBR's room was directly atop the stairs, Burke's was on the other side of the house, and the parents were up on the top floor. Someone JBR knew could have gone into her room, woken her up all "Shh! Surprise Christmas visit!" and brought her downstairs. If she didn't scream until she was in the basement, that would account for the neighbor hearing it through the broken window, but the family not hearing it.

The ransom note remains the most incriminating piece of evidence when it comes to Patsy, particularly if she did noticeably change her handwriting in her every day life following the murder. A friend or neighbor with access to the house and JBR may have known the ~118,000 figure, though...but the note still sounds like a woman wrote it and it does seem odd that an intruder would sit down and write a three page ransom note with the body in the basement, and plant it on the stairs. Patsy did seem nuts, but it's possible that she was crazy and didn't kill her daughter.

But where in fuck would Patsy get a pubic hair to plant that wasn't John's? This case really doesn't make sense.

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by Anonymousreply 316November 29, 2010 3:44 AM

Oh, and what the hell is up with the red heart drawn on her palm?

by Anonymousreply 317November 29, 2010 3:53 AM

Is it possible that they were covering up for somebody outside the family?

by Anonymousreply 318November 29, 2010 4:03 AM

That could be. But why?

by Anonymousreply 319November 29, 2010 4:10 AM

[italic]The police affirmatively cleared the family. NOT decided there wasn't enough evidence to charge them. CLEARED them. And yet you ninnies go on and on.[/italic]

Those same "police" were set to arrest, John Mark Karr, and were adamant that they had caught their killer. The parents did it. Any moron could conclude that. This is the OJ trial all over again. The writing is clearly on the wall!

by Anonymousreply 320November 29, 2010 4:14 AM

[quote]The police affirmatively cleared the family. NOT decided there wasn't enough evidence to charge them. CLEARED them

The police can be bought. BOUGHT. Do you hear me? Let me re-type it, this time in capitals: THE POLICE CAN BE BOUGHT!!!!

by Anonymousreply 321November 29, 2010 4:21 AM

It's not just that they can be bought...they flubbed the case so badly that they basicly HAD to say the family was innocent. They had no choice.

by Anonymousreply 322November 29, 2010 4:30 AM

[quote]The parents did it. Any moron could conclude that. This is the OJ trial all over again.

Except for the fact that the only evidence pointing to John and Patsy is circumstantial and not forensic, and there was forensic evidence that clearly implicated OJ and he was acquitted anyway. That's wildly different.

People have been convicted on circumstantial evidence, but it has to be more than this. Particularly when there is forensic evidence that points to someone else.

by Anonymousreply 323November 29, 2010 5:06 AM

[italic]Particularly when there is forensic evidence that points to someone else.[/italic]

There isn't any. The end.

by Anonymousreply 324November 29, 2010 5:34 AM

You must be illiterate.

And even if that were true, there's still not enough circumstantial evidence to convict them. OJ should have been convicted.

by Anonymousreply 325November 29, 2010 5:46 AM

[quote]"That single hair, I don't want to understate it, is the single most significant thing I've heard," said Denver attorney Scott Robinson. "It's far more significant than all the talk about melting snow, were there footprints or weren't there, a broken window, can you get in or can't you. But that hair -- a defense lawyer can make a lot out of it. "Because," Robinson added, "if I'm the prosecutor, I have to be really worried as to how I can put together a plausible story ... that explains the existence of a pubic hair not belonging to anyone that they know of, on a blanket covering the child. That hair explains why the delay (in making an arrest), why the caution."

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by Anonymousreply 326November 29, 2010 5:50 AM

They will never find out who killed this little girl. Never. This is why she will remain a source of interest for many decades. I don't think her brother will ever offer any thing close to an expose book or interview. He will live and die in quiet invisibility and ordinariness.

by Anonymousreply 327November 29, 2010 6:08 AM

[quote]I don't think her brother will ever offer any thing close to an expose book or interview. He will live and die in quiet invisibility and ordinariness.

Whew! That was a close one!

by Anonymousreply 328November 29, 2010 1:48 PM

The Ramseys were raking in megabucks suing people for libel. That's why the police had to "clear" them.%0D

by Anonymousreply 329November 29, 2010 5:43 PM

Another thing that bothers one about the Ramseys. For people so into beauty, all their friends were FUGLY.%0D

by Anonymousreply 330November 29, 2010 5:57 PM

Silly, nothing makes one look more beautiful than surrounding oneself with ugly people.

by Anonymousreply 331November 29, 2010 6:02 PM

[quote]It's the touch DNA that throws a monkey wrench into everything. It debunks the theory that the DNA in her underwear could have been left by a manufacturer--there was ten to twelve times the trace amount that is usually found when that happens, and it matched the DNA under her fingernails, which did not match any Ramsey male, including Burke. More importantly, the DNA was comingled with JBR's blood (all the blood found on the body was hers), which would not have been the case had the DNA been left on the underwear before it was purchased. Somebody else was in that house. r320, the same police took the case to the grand jury and failed to get an indictment even before they had the ability to test the touch DNA. You're aware that there's a longterm study that proves that when confronted with facts, conservatives tend to cling even harder and more desperately to the lies they believe? Because, that's you in a nutshell.

by Anonymousreply 332November 29, 2010 7:13 PM

Bullshit R332. You're just making stuff up now. I'm no conservative and I believe the evidence pointing to them is overwhelming. The unrelated males were police, dumbass.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 333November 29, 2010 10:42 PM

..or doctors..or evidence techs..or the coroner...etc etc etc.%0D

by Anonymousreply 334November 29, 2010 10:45 PM

The police were ruled out, r333. But you just go right on clinging to your lies and fighting those facts with all of your might. Here' s the research on why your brain misfires like that:

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by Anonymousreply 335November 29, 2010 10:59 PM


I think anyone who would subject their daughter to those over-the-top "beauty pageants" is insane. It's as if they don't think of their child as a human child, but as a doll child who doesn't really have feelings whom they just want to dress up, show off & WIN trophies.

And it's obvious that those "pageants" are hunting grounds for pedos. I'm sure they attract pervs for miles.

So perhaps it's true that there was stranger DNA in her fingernails & underpants. It appears that they are protecting that person. Why? Why would they protect someone who HARMED THEIR CHILD?

Who would they protect? Perhaps a beauty pageant judge, sponsor or official. Perhaps a business partner, local politician, or society bigwig.

Maybe they (I hate to even type this) prostituted JonBenet out for favors. Maybe they didn't think there was any harm in it since she's only a child and wouldn't remember it. Maybe they were so BLINDED by WINNING -- either the pageants or social positions -- that they sold out their kid.

Perhaps the pedo didn't kill her -- perhaps JonBenet started talking -- maybe even said something at that Christmas party, hence the hangup call to 9-1-1. Perhaps a guest was alarmed & thought they were helping, and the Ramseys talked him/her out of completing the call.

Perhaps Patsy killed JonBenet in a rage because she couldn't get the girl to shut up & behave.

Hmm. I don't know. Seems like the guest or whomever called would've spilled to the cops. Maybe they got paid off? Or threatened? Or their story was dismissed?? Maybe it was Burke?

by Anonymousreply 336November 29, 2010 11:55 PM

Most likely it was JonBenet who called the police Dec. 23 and that was the motive for eliminating her Dec. 26.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 337November 30, 2010 12:03 AM

Let's put it this way: the police haven't been looking for "the real killer" for 14 years now.%0D %0D Mr. Ramsay has seemed singularly incurious, as well.%0D %0D Does one really "move on" from the unsolved murder of one's child? He and Patsy moved from the scene rapidly. They half-heartedly suggested other culprits, but over-all seemed eager to be done with the case. IOW: Neither acted as if there were a brutal murderer walking freely "out there somewhere."%0D %0D Read "A Mother Gone Bad." (BTW, that title was taken from the name of the softball team Patsy was on.)

by Anonymousreply 338November 30, 2010 11:36 AM

Asserting their constitutional rights with regard to police interrogation does not equal "protecting the real killer(s)," Miss Nancy Grace.

by Anonymousreply 339November 30, 2010 7:17 PM

[quote]Mr. Ramsay has seemed singularly incurious, as well.

Based on what? He doesn't communicate with the press anymore and hasn't for many years, right?

I don't know, hiring one's own investigators and offering a huge reward for information doesn't seem like they were eager to be done with the case to me.

Then you could make the argument that these actions were a refusal to cooperate with authorities, and a charade.

by Anonymousreply 340December 1, 2010 4:59 AM

R332, how do you explain that bizarre, unnecessary ransom note, and the fact (correct me if I'm wrong) that it seems to have been composed in the house? That's the only thing I can't get over.

by Anonymousreply 341December 1, 2010 6:27 AM

And just what did Ramsay's investigator find, r340?

by Anonymousreply 342December 1, 2010 10:48 AM

r340, the Holloway mom made a bigger deal of her missing daughter than the Ramsey's did of their deceased daughter. Mrs. Holloway is often on the news trying to keep the case open & searching for answers. The Ramseys did seem to be eager to "move on." Do they have remembrances or vigils? What did they do to honor JonBenet's 20th birthday? They certainly do not seem interested in keeping the story alive.

With the advent of the world wide web, it's become painfully clear that there are a lot of pedos in the world. I think a top level government official (yet another) recently got busted with child porn on his laptop. The Ramseys were involved in some sort of ring, with powerful, high-status "clients" who would rather kill than be exposed. That's who the Ramseys are protecting.

by Anonymousreply 343December 1, 2010 11:40 AM

I can't believe I read this whole thread.

I'm sorry, but a scream so loud that a neighbor hears it, but not one but three family members in the same house do not hear it? Odd.

RE: Patsey, the makeup and the clothes. I am not a mother, but if I were to wake up and find my only daughter allegedly missing, the very last thing on my mind is making sure my makeup is applied again perfectly. And I can see wearing the same pants again, but the whole outfit? The shirt she wore the whole day before and being seen by numerous people? Someone like Patsy wouldn't put on a wrinkled outfit, but if you took the time to hang up the outfit on hangers or lay it out nicely, surely you could take the time to put on a new outfit? Another oddity that by itself, seems to mean nothing...

Also, again, not a parent, but if my child was discovered missing or murdered IN MY OWN HOUSE, the last things I'm doing are arranging my private plane to take me to another state and NOT worrying about my other child being IN THE SAME HOUSE the alleged murderer hid in and waited for me to go to sleep, kidnapped, wrote a ransom note, and violently slew my other child. How they didn't treat Burke after JB being "missing" and then found murdered is very suspicious. It's as if they knew he was not in any danger.

All of the libel suits by the Ramseys against the tabloids about their son are very telling to me. Not once did they have a suit against anyone who accused Patsey or John of the murder? But so many about their son? Was it because they know 100% that Burke did not do it -- because they themselves did it?

The 911 call the few nights before her murder is probably the most curious thing to me in the whole case. Why was it not pursued more? Are there any plausible reasons about it? You do not accidentally dial 911 at a home.

by Anonymousreply 344December 1, 2010 12:36 PM

One more thing: I don't care if it's a relative or not, but ANY dead body found in my own home, especially someone obviously murdered while I slept, and I would be freaking the fuck out. Somehow the Ramseys didn't seem that...bothered by it?

by Anonymousreply 345December 1, 2010 12:42 PM

[quote]The 911 call the few nights before her murder is probably the most curious thing to me in the whole case. Why was it not pursued more? Are there any plausible reasons about it? You do not accidentally dial 911 at a home.

[quote]12-23 Mistaken 911 Call. At 6:47 p.m., someone attending the party placed a 911 call, which was answered by police dispatcher Therese Hilleary. The caller hung up without saying anything. Police call back only to get the Ramsey's anwering machine. Officer "B.O. 266" goes to the home at 6:54 p.m. and leaves at 7:09 p.m., after being assured that there was no emergency

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by Anonymousreply 346December 1, 2010 12:58 PM

Who mistakenly dials 911 at a home? At a business where you dial a '9' to get an outside line, then a '1' for the country code, sure. Who accidentally dials 911, and then doesn't answer the call-back? Even children playing a joke are going to fess up about it or tattle on the other(s).

Who assured the officer that visited the house that everything was OK? If it was a child's prank, surely they would have confessed especially after a police officer shows up and also it would be included in the police report.

by Anonymousreply 347December 1, 2010 1:43 PM

If there was some type of emergency (medical, accident, crime being committed, fire, etc.) that prompted the call one would think that at least some of the 30 people attending the party would know about.

by Anonymousreply 348December 1, 2010 2:37 PM

Accident 911 call? No, I don't think so.

by Anonymousreply 349December 1, 2010 3:00 PM

It is odd that they never seemed to show any surprise or guilt that their daughter was murdered while they supposedly slept through it? It was just weird that they never seemed to be bothered by the fact and they were more interested in lawyering up than in finding out who killed their child. It's always bothered me that they got away with this because of stupid cops who didn't know how to do a basic investigation of a murder. And the the office covering up the fact that they acted like the keystone cops.

by Anonymousreply 350December 1, 2010 3:09 PM

[quote]Accident 911 call? No, I don't think so.

No one has ever dialed 911 to report an accident.

What a strange thing to do.

by Anonymousreply 351December 1, 2010 3:32 PM

100 ways to mis-dial 911.

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by Anonymousreply 352December 1, 2010 3:37 PM

That's it - one of Patsy's guests dialed 9-1-1 because she ran out of McNuggets!

by Anonymousreply 353December 1, 2010 3:48 PM

R347 asked, "Who assured the officer that visited the house that everything was OK?"%0D %0D It was the Ramseys' friend and neighbor Susan Stine. This thread has caused me to do a little background reading on the JBR case and the Stines are intriguing. Although they were not real close to the Ramsey family at first, the Ramseys ended up staying at the Stines' house for several months after the murder, and the Stines followed the Ramseys to Atlanta later on. Susan was known as "Patsy's pitbull," running interference between the Ramseys and the press.%0D %0D One of the discussion boards I looked at contained some intersting theories about the Stines connection to this case. They had a son who was Burke's age and some surmise that perhaps he and Burke accidentally killed JBR. According to official reports, the Ramseys stopped at the Stines' house on the way home from the December 25 Christmas party. A couple people have suggested that the Stine son may have gone home with the Ramseys to spend the night at their house. Another theory is that Burke and the Stine son were rough-housing with JBR and caused a head injury which at first (like Natasha Richardson's head injury) seemed minor but which lead to JBR going into convulsions or a coma after returning home that night.

by Anonymousreply 354December 1, 2010 4:06 PM

The Ramsey's may have been "cleared" based on the available DNA evidence but I don't see how the prosecutors or anyone else can absolve them of the crime entirely. Just because there's no incriminating evidence, it doesn't mean they're not guilty.

And stray hairs can come from anyplace. You sit in a movie theater, you retrieve your jacket from the coat check, a delivery man comes to the house, etc. One stray hair means nothing.

by Anonymousreply 355December 1, 2010 4:29 PM

Supposed they whacked her on Dec. 23 and she hit her head on the tub and appeared lifeless. So they started to call 9-1-1 but she revived. So they hung up and pretended all was well until Xmas night she was complaining of a headache and passed out and died. And they spent all night coming up with this dumb little act.%0D

by Anonymousreply 356December 1, 2010 6:02 PM

But if the head injury were days old, that would have shown up on the autopsy, wouldn't it?

by Anonymousreply 357December 1, 2010 6:56 PM

The fact that there are still people who question the Ramseys' guilt proves to me how easy it is for the rich to buy minds. I mean we are all mad at the electorate voting republican, but how can we be surprised they fell for right wing propaganda when there are still idiots right here who think an intruder did something to JonBenet Ramsey?

by Anonymousreply 358December 1, 2010 7:01 PM

The biggest smoking gun? The security system was off. This is not Gated Community Armed Response, this is urban Boulder CO and at Christmas houses are filled with expensive gifts! They would NEVER have left their alarm off without a reason.

by Anonymousreply 359December 1, 2010 7:06 PM

The Ramseys claimed she fell asleep at the party, that they carried her home still asleep and that she remained asleep as they themselves went to bed.

But freshly eaten undigested pineapple chunks were found in her otherwise empty stomach. Pineapple passes quickly out of the stomach, especially when eaten on an empty stomach. This means she ate some within a few short hours of being killed. The neighbors said there was no pineapple at all in their house and no one ever claimed that the Ramseys brought some with them to the party.

There was also a used dish and spoon in the Ramsey's sink. Either someone fed her pineapple after her parents went to bed or more likely she woke up when she got home and had a late bedtime snack. That means the Ramseys were lying about her being asleep all that time.

by Anonymousreply 360December 1, 2010 7:10 PM

The Ramsay's lied about Burk and many other things. We know someone in the house killed her and hid the body...we just could never tell which one did it. Was John part of a child porno club? More than likely, yes.

by Anonymousreply 361December 1, 2010 7:37 PM

[quote]RE: Patsey, the makeup and the clothes. I am not a mother, but if I were to wake up and find my only daughter allegedly missing, the very last thing on my mind is making sure my makeup is applied again perfectly.

She did that before she went downstairs.

[quote]The biggest smoking gun? The security system was off.

The report said that the security system was not operating. I didn't read anywhere that they'd turned it off.

R358, there is no forensic evidence pointing to them, and there's not enough circumstantial evidence to convict them. There just isn't. You need more than, "She wore the same dress and seems crazy and the ransom note kind of sounds like a chick, and John wanted to leave." You expect people to be 100% convinced of their guilt because of that?

Yeah, they seem really suspicious. But the fact that people still aren't sure what happened shouldn't come as a shock to anyone. It is entirely possible that someone who knew JonBenet and the ~118,000 figure could have killed her...particularly because of the DNA. It was under her fingernails *and* on two different articles of clothing, for God's sake, and there was a pubic hair, and none of it matches John and Burke.

by Anonymousreply 362December 1, 2010 8:26 PM

R360, see R291. It was in her small intestine. They have no idea when she ate it.

by Anonymousreply 363December 1, 2010 8:27 PM

"There is no forensic evidence"%0D %0D Not true. The garotte was made with Patsy's brush. The body was found in a room only John and Patsy knew about. We know she lied about the pineapple. The ransom note sounded not like "some chick" but like her, matching her diction and phrases.%0D There was a rough draft of the ransom note in their wastebasket.%0D None of the "trace" evidence alluded to years later was indicated in any early account of the crime, suggesting it was the result of poor evidence custodianship, not "missed" at the time. Certainly pubic hairs could have gotten on JonBenet when Patsy threw a blanket over her body at the house. But it was never said that they did until years afterward, which tends to indicate that they weren't on the body in its original state.%0D %0D %0D %0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 364December 1, 2010 9:17 PM

r364, enough. You're just being ignorant. Unknown male DNA was commingled with JonBenet's blood. Same DNA on her underwear and in her longjohns. The brush was in the basement, where the killer obviously had access to it, since he put the body down there. There was ample opportunity for someone to enter the home. There's no evidence that Patsy "lied" about the pineapple. And what do you know about Patsy's diction and phrases? You are grasping at straws because you hate someone you don't even know, and you are ignoring the real evidence that disputes the "facts" you keep pulling out of your ass. Don't quit your day job, Nancy Drew.

by Anonymousreply 365December 1, 2010 11:42 PM

The Ramseys were uncooperative from the get-go. They did everything they could to hamper the police and thwart the investigation.

Innocent people don't do that. End of story.

by Anonymousreply 366December 1, 2010 11:47 PM

No, Nancy Grace. Read the evidence. The evidence is the story, and it exonerates the Ramseys. Asserting and protecting their constitutional rights was the smartest thing they ever did, and it made the pigs in that rightwing hellhole mad enough to try to convict them in the press. The funny thing is, even with the amount of poison they dumped into the well before the dna science that affirmatively cleared the Ramseys was discovered, they STILL couldn't get a grand jury indictment. I applaud them for standing up for their constitutional rights. They made all of our constitutional liberties safer by taking a stand.

by Anonymousreply 367December 1, 2010 11:53 PM

r358, "innocent people don't need lawyers" is a rightwing meme. This isn't about rich people buying minds; it's about conservative people who cling to lies that have been affirmatively disproven because they cannot accept being wrong in their diminished right/wrong black/white minds.

by Anonymousreply 368December 1, 2010 11:58 PM

367, that is a heap of knowitall for someone who doesn't know very much at all.

by Anonymousreply 369December 1, 2010 11:59 PM

I know to a reasonable certainty from the dna evidence and the lie detector results that the Ramseys didn't kill JonBenet. And that the people who keep insisting that they did and that there were no footprints in the snow and no sign of forced entry have a demonstrated inability to absorb new information.

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by Anonymousreply 370December 2, 2010 12:08 AM

R364, the things you are listing are [italic]circumstantial[/italic]. Patsy's paintbrush was sitting right there in a bucket with a bunch of other art supplies. There is no evidence that no one else on the planet knew about that wine cellar, but even if an intruder didn't know ahead of time that it was there, he may have seen it. It wasn't invisible, and it wasn't locked.

[quote]We know she lied about the pineapple.

For the eightieth time, no we don't.

[quote]None of the "trace" evidence alluded to years later was indicated in any early account of the crime, suggesting it was the result of poor evidence custodianship, not "missed" at the time.

No, it wasn't "missed." The technology didn't exist at the time.

by Anonymousreply 371December 2, 2010 2:32 AM

There's still no rational explanation for the ransom note. Other than Patsy writing it.

by Anonymousreply 372December 2, 2010 3:28 AM

Lie detector evidence means nothing. They aren't accurate and if that "proves" the Ramseys innocent then you have nothing because John Ramsey was a corporate executive and Patsy Ramsey a beauty queen and both had more practice lying to people than a personal injury lawyer.%0D %0D The DNA claims are bullshit. If they had DNA at the start they would have used it. This was not 1984, this was 1996-97. They knew all about DNA evidence at the time.%0D

by Anonymousreply 373December 2, 2010 6:37 AM

I don't trust polygraph tests either, and the Ramseys barely passed. But gaming those has little to do with "practicing lying." It has to do with the physiological responses to lying.%0D %0D [quote]The DNA claims are bullshit. If they had DNA at the start they would have used it. This was not 1984, this was 1996-97. They knew all about DNA evidence at the time.%0D %0D Wow. You'd think you would run a Google search--or at least read the thread--before making such an ignorant statement. You really don't know that DNA technology has changed tremendously since then?

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by Anonymousreply 374December 2, 2010 7:19 AM

Regarding the blanket that covered JonBenet's body: was JonBenet found covered by the blanket? or did one of her parents place the blanket over her body subsequent to the discovery of her corpse?%0D %0D If the former scenario, is it correct that this blanket was taken from a dryer in the Ramseys' laundry/utility room?%0D %0D That would seem to point to someone quite familiar with the layout of the house, or at least a person who had plenty of time to explore the house with impunity.%0D %0D Also from a psychological point of view it seems unlikely that an intruder or a hardened criminal would cover up a corpse with a blanket. I know it sounds twisted, but to me that act seems more consistent with a person who cares for the dead child in some sense, a person who did not view the victim as a mere object upon which to act out whatever impulses the perpetrator may have had.

by Anonymousreply 375December 2, 2010 8:39 AM

Did Patsy have extra help in to clean the house for the Holidays? If I had money I would have a maid service in, which could easily explain the unknown hair. Perhaps Patsey took her blankets to a laundry service? Seriously...there are more reasonable ways to explain a single hair.

by Anonymousreply 376December 2, 2010 2:07 PM

None of that would explain how JonBenet managed to get unknown male dna mingled with her blood. If Nancy Grace says the parents are cleared, they are cleared.

by Anonymousreply 377December 2, 2010 5:59 PM

r365, don't quit yours either, Perry Mason. "And what do you know about Patsy's diction and phrases?" Let's see; where, oh where, might one find examples? LETTERS she wrote? Journal entries? PEOPLE who KNEW her?%0D Where, oh where?%0D

by Anonymousreply 378December 2, 2010 6:55 PM

[quote]If I had money I would have a maid service in, which could easily explain the unknown hair. Perhaps Patsey took her blankets to a laundry service? Seriously...there are more reasonable ways to explain a single hair.

A [italic]pubic[/italic] hair?

You're not helping yourself, R378.

[quote]Also from a psychological point of view it seems unlikely that an intruder or a hardened criminal would cover up a corpse with a blanket. I know it sounds twisted, but to me that act seems more consistent with a person who cares for the dead child in some sense, a person who did not view the victim as a mere object upon which to act out whatever impulses the perpetrator may have had.

This is interesting. I think molesters who kill, and killers who get sexual gratification through violence (like Dahmer) are different. There is a sense of caring, of romance, of bonding with the victim--even as a corpse. Particularly with the Humbert Humbert/Lolita relationship that adult male pedophiles have with little girls. Just listen to John Mark Karr talk about how he loves his little girls, he loved JonBenet...that doesn't mean he wouldn't kill one of them.

by Anonymousreply 379December 2, 2010 7:12 PM

It's just that the only thing that really adds up in this case is that the parents were covering it up. Seriously, if it weren't for that note, I could have considered the possibility of some stranger doing it. No murderer sits down in the house to make up some crazy ransom note. You do the crime...you get out of there, that's it. You don't sit around composing a letter.

by Anonymousreply 380December 2, 2010 7:23 PM

[quote]You do the crime...you get out of there, that's it. You don't sit around composing a letter.

The murderer had plenty of time to compose the ransom note while the Ramsey family was away from the house. He probably stalked JonBenet for some time and maybe even watched the family as they left the house for the evening.

by Anonymousreply 381December 2, 2010 7:43 PM

You would have to be fucking brain-dead to think the Ramseys played no part in this.

by Anonymousreply 382December 2, 2010 9:22 PM

But even if the outside perpetrator had plenty of time to sit around and compose several versions of a long ransom note after having broken into the Ramsey's house, why the fuck would he or she?

If they somehow thought they'd take JonBenet from her room after everyone in the house had gone to bed, take her down to the basement without her making any noise or anybody hearing them, get their jollies and then kill her, why write a stupid ransom note? Why pretend there was a kidnapping? That makes no sense whatsoever.

This, of course, also assumes they knew the Ramsey's schedule, would be able to hide for hours without leaving any clues behind, be relatively sure the Ramsey's wouldn't go into the basement, etc., etc.

by Anonymousreply 383December 2, 2010 9:46 PM

You would have to be illiterate to think, at this point, that they did, r382.

by Anonymousreply 384December 2, 2010 9:55 PM

[quote]Why pretend there was a kidnapping? That makes no sense whatsoever.

The note told the Ramsey's that they were being watched and not to contact the police.

The longer the police are out of it the more time to get away from the crime scene.

by Anonymousreply 385December 2, 2010 9:57 PM

Ridiculous, R385. On so many counts.

Did the note also tell the Ramsey's not to use their phone or leave the house? And exactly how many hours would be enough for an unknown assailant to flee the crime scene, since nobody would even be looking for them? Especially since they didn't exist.

You just like to be contrary, don't you? Because nobody could be that stupid and live.

by Anonymousreply 386December 2, 2010 10:15 PM

ITA r382

by Anonymousreply 387December 2, 2010 10:17 PM

r386 - I gave you a reason. Now you tell me exactly why the note was written.

by Anonymousreply 388December 2, 2010 10:24 PM

seriously, r388?

patsy wrote it to throw suspicion off she & john. DUH

by Anonymousreply 389December 2, 2010 10:40 PM

The problem with that r389 is that Patsy didn't write it. DUH.

by Anonymousreply 390December 2, 2010 10:50 PM

I'm not r386 but really, these were rich people...they would have called their attorney right away...they didn't call police right away but they called all their friends...what was it, a house party?

by Anonymousreply 391December 2, 2010 10:53 PM

The first handwriting experts said they COULDN'T eliminate Patsy as a suspected writer of the note.

And as the "kidnapper" takes on the nagging/loving/scolding tone of a wife as he or she gives John Ramsey pages of instruction and advice ("bring a big enough case. . . get plenty of rest. . . ") it is blazingly obvious that Patsy is the most likely author.

by Anonymousreply 392December 2, 2010 10:56 PM

390, the handwriting experts did not rule out Patsy as the author. And just one more time-- who the fuck writes a rough draft of a ransom note and tosses it in Patsy's waste basket before leaving the final draft? No one but Patsy.

by Anonymousreply 393December 2, 2010 10:58 PM

[quote]they didn't call police right away but they called all their friends

No, Patsy called 911 first.

by Anonymousreply 394December 2, 2010 11:07 PM

For 393:

[quote]No BPD-Hired Experts Identified Patsy as RN Author. "During the investigation, the Boulder Police Department and Boulder County District Attorney's Office consulted at least six handwriting experts. (SMF P 191; PSMF P 191.) All of these experts consulted the original Ransom Note and original handwriting exemplars from Mrs. Ramsey. (SMF P 205; PSMF P 205.) Four of these experts were hired by the police and two were hired by defendants. (SMF P 191; PSMF P 191.) None of the six consulted experts identified Mrs. Ramsey as the author of the Ransom Note. (SMF P 195; PSMF P 195.) [Emphasis added.]

by Anonymousreply 395December 2, 2010 11:11 PM

And why did Patsey's handwriting patterns suddenly change after JB's death?

by Anonymousreply 396December 2, 2010 11:47 PM

R395, they couldn't identify her, but they also couldn't rule her out. What are you not getting?

Also, this is ridiculous:

[quote]The longer the police are out of it the more time to get away from the crime scene.

Then why not just get away from the crime scene, instead of sitting around the house writing a rough draft of the note, rejecting that, and then writing another unnecessarily complcated note?

by Anonymousreply 397December 3, 2010 12:05 AM

Here's what a credible kidnapping RN might look like:


And then send something creepy like a lock of her hair or a pic of her tied up to prove they're nasty villains who mean business.

r381 / r385 / r388 / r390 / r395 :

why were these "kidnappers" never heard from again? they never contacted the ramseys again, they never did this to another kid again. these vicious kidnappers fell off the face of the earth. what happened to them? who were they? why did they kill her?

by Anonymousreply 398December 3, 2010 12:14 AM

Well they could have killed her because she contacted the police but then why didn't Patsy tell the police the house was being watched and come in disguise? The police never hid any of their activities, even had crime scene tape up before the discovery of the body.%0D

by Anonymousreply 399December 3, 2010 1:37 AM

Patsy and John followed NONE of the "kidnapper" instructions, indicating that they didn't want their daughter alive, certainly not at the cost of $118,000.%0D %0D That's instructive, no?

by Anonymousreply 400December 3, 2010 1:39 AM

Rememeber the Getty kidnapping? They sent his ear. I don't think his father ever paid. Mr Getty was a filthy pig. I wish there was a hell.

by Anonymousreply 401December 3, 2010 2:33 AM

If they weren't rich, Patsy and John would have gone to the electric chair.%0D

by Anonymousreply 402December 3, 2010 2:35 AM

Anyone speculated that Patsy may've collaborated with a man other than her husband in the murder? That would explain both the weird ransom note and the DNA found under JB's fingernails.

by Anonymousreply 403December 3, 2010 3:33 AM

The police made a rookie mistake sealing off just JBR's bedroom as the crime scene instead of sealing off the whole house. Dumb.%0D %0D The Ramseys sitting around having refreshments with their friends is one of those things that makes them look extremely suspicious, but might just be the actions of clueless, spoiled, slightly batty rich people.%0D %0D Um, no, R400, it's not. Every ransom note in the history of ransom notes says "no police," and anyone with half a brain would immediately call the police anyway instead of trying to negotiate with criminals by yourself, unless you have mafia ties.%0D %0D The reports (R26) say that John Ramsey had collected the full amount by 7:30 AM on December 26th. They were allegedly waiting for the kidnapper(s) phone call. The body was discovered at 1:05 PM.%0D %0D R403: That's an idea.%0D %0D [quote]And why did Patsey's handwriting patterns suddenly change after JB's death?%0D %0D Is this actually true?

by Anonymousreply 404December 3, 2010 4:23 AM

But John and Patsy Ramsey didn't know that R404, not being experts in kidnapping like yourself.%0D

by Anonymousreply 405December 3, 2010 4:35 AM

Pretty sure you don't need a doctoral course in kidnapping to realize that if you haven't been trained to be a cop, you're not a cop, and if you try to deal with criminals on your own you have a death wish.

by Anonymousreply 406December 3, 2010 5:10 AM

[quote]Now let's take a look at the first of a series of handwriting characteristics which are common between the ransom note and the pageant application. This is the first of nine examples which show that while Patsy attempts to disguise her writing, she can't help but to slip back to her normal printing habits on occasion. [/quote]

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by Anonymousreply 407December 3, 2010 11:49 AM

yes, r403, it's been speculated that they were involved in a kiddie ring involving prominent men.

by Anonymousreply 408December 3, 2010 12:08 PM

Do you mean was patsey having an affair with a pedophile? Now there is a possibility. Those guys often try to hook up with a Mom of a kid they are interested in. It happens more often then people know.

by Anonymousreply 409December 3, 2010 3:10 PM

Them calling their friends over at a time like that is the weirdest thing I can think of. Secondly, why didn't the cops seterate John and Patsy right away and question them. Complete stupidity on the cops part. %0D %0D That cop who was in charge, never took the blame for fucking up this case.

by Anonymousreply 410December 3, 2010 3:16 PM

It's not that weird if you think they did it and needed to cover it up R410. They were contaminating the house with evidence from other suspects.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 411December 3, 2010 4:58 PM

All of the experts on here are interesting about the ransom note, but didn't John Douglas say his opinion was that it was written by a man not Mrs. Ramsey?

by Anonymousreply 412December 3, 2010 8:58 PM

That site has a number of articles debunking all the Ramsey defender points about an intruder who didn't exist, the nonexistent "stun gun", etc. The only thing it doesn't address is the DNA.%0D

by Anonymousreply 413December 3, 2010 9:49 PM

And on the polygraph there is the startling information in the article that Ramsey's executive secretary took a lie detector after she was told JonBenet was killed accidentally by Patsy swinging something at John after discovering him molesting JonBenet. And she passed.%0D %0D

by Anonymousreply 414December 3, 2010 9:50 PM

The Ramsey case murder myths

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by Anonymousreply 415December 3, 2010 9:52 PM

From the Polygraph Farce article%0D %0D "Diane Hollis was an Executive Secretary for John Ramsey at his company, Access Graphics Inc. Miss Hollis claimed that she was told that JonBen%C3%A9t was killed by accident when Patsy swung an object at John Ramsey when she caught him molesting JonBen%C3%A9t. Diane Hollis stuck firm to her story and a newspaper hired Gene Parker to give her a polygraph test. Hollis had no problem passing the test. "

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by Anonymousreply 416December 3, 2010 9:54 PM

Huge thank you to R407. I had never seen that.

by Anonymousreply 417December 4, 2010 1:25 AM

Oviously Patsey wrote the note...which everyone knew but the case was so flubbed there was no possible way they could have convicted anyone. Who would they have put on trial? Patsey, John or Burk?

by Anonymousreply 418December 4, 2010 4:03 PM

It seems to me that kids who have been snatched from their rooms or yards, are taken away to be molested and killed. The bodies are then dumped in shallow graves, coolers, trash bags, etc.%0D %0D %0D Why take Jonbenet downstairs to murder her and then leave the body? It makes no sense.

by Anonymousreply 419December 4, 2010 7:34 PM

The theory, r419, is that an intruder wrote the note before the Ramseys came home in order to give himself a head start away from the police when the Ramseys woke the next morning. He intended to take her out of the house, and she may have fractured her skull as he was trying to kidnap her (tasing wore off and she started struggling). Rather than waste a perfectly good dead pageant child, he rigged up the garrote and had some kind of sexual encounter with her dead or nearly dead body and scrammed. If you read r407's link, the statistics cited are all pulled from out of the author's ass. A one in three chance that any one person will combine script and printing at random? Almost everyone does that. I know a couple of engineers who don't. And I know a couple of fine ladies who write in an elegant and highly legible cursive script. But everyone else is that half print stuff.

by Anonymousreply 420December 4, 2010 11:32 PM

[quote]Listen carefully!

How does one listen to a ransom note?

The writer was obviously panicked. One doesn't need to demand a reader to "listen carefully" to a RANSOM NOTE. Of course the reader is going to pay attention.

Women tend to do that I notice -- in meetings at work they tend to raise their hands before talking whereas men just start talking. Men don't need permission, and they don't tell someone to pay attention to them. Demanding someone to "listen carefully" (even to a handwritten note) indicates that the writer is not used to being taken seriously. Kind of like a pageant mom. Certainly not some hardened kidnapper.

by Anonymousreply 421December 5, 2010 12:17 AM

Good points, but if it were an intruder then it was someone who knew JonBenet and was obsessed with her, not a hardened kidnapper who picked their house at random.

by Anonymousreply 422December 5, 2010 12:20 AM

Interesting that most on here are forgetting that nine months after JonBenet was killed, a Boulder woman went upstairs to check on her daughter during the night and found a 20-30 something guy in her daughter's room. The guy jumped out of a second-story window. Same MO, perhaps?%0D %0D For some reason the press has ignored that incident.

by Anonymousreply 423December 5, 2010 6:50 AM

There was no tasing, it was debunked. And with all due respect R423, all towns have sex crimes. There is simply no evidence of intrusion.%0D

by Anonymousreply 424December 5, 2010 7:39 AM

Could it have been a more obvious cover-up? I guess if Patsy had actually signed the note the police might have put two and two together. Regardless, we all know who did it.

by Anonymousreply 425December 5, 2010 7:45 AM

Not debunked, r424. Disputed by a former BPD hack and the spokesmodel for the stun gun company that didn't want to get sued, but not debunked. And the only court to address the issue concluded that there was no evidence at all suggesting that the marks on JonBenet were NOT caused by a stun gun.

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by Anonymousreply 426December 7, 2010 11:57 PM

It was clearly suicide. She was aging out of the Tiny Pageant circuit and wanted to go out a legend. This is why we need to stop allowing Marilyn Monroe be an idol.

by Anonymousreply 427December 8, 2010 12:16 AM

R90, R75 comes from the forensic analysis performed by Dr. Cyril Wecht.

by Anonymousreply 428December 8, 2010 12:28 AM

R426, one of those little lapdogs of the rich who are always keen to do their masters' bidding, no matter the crime.%0D

by Anonymousreply 429December 8, 2010 2:10 AM

[quote]a former BPD hack

Borderline Personality Disorder?

by Anonymousreply 430December 8, 2010 12:48 PM

R427 guessed it...my hat is off to you, sir.

by Anonymousreply 431December 8, 2010 6:05 PM

r429 = the real killer

by Anonymousreply 432December 8, 2010 6:39 PM


by Anonymousreply 433December 14, 2010 6:20 AM

Bumping for a great thread.

Does anyone out there buy the exoneration of the parents by the DA? In spite of the DNA, I still believe Steve Thomas's (former detective on the case) theory from his book.

by Anonymousreply 434March 5, 2011 7:24 PM

Aphrodite Jones is going to address this case on her show on ID channel. I look forward to her take on it. She seems to be exonerating the parents because of the DNA and blaming the BPD for being blinkered when it comes to anyone other than family.%0D %0D I am amazed to think that now you can take swabs from the flesh of someone and get DNA from the killer. Also from the a murder weapon like the garrote (sp?). They will be able to filter the air in the room one of these days and get flakes of DNA from everyone who has been in the room. Won't crime take a hit then? Can't wait till then. I love forensics.

by Anonymousreply 435March 28, 2011 6:31 AM

The Aphrodite Jones show was disappointing and so obviously slanted to exonerate the Ramseys. Not surprising as I saw her interviewed and she said she had extensively spoken to John Ramsey.

by Anonymousreply 436April 3, 2011 4:17 AM

The most interesting thing on the Aphrodite Jones special was the guy who committed suicide the day after the cops made a public statement/warning to the perpetrator of the crime and allegedly the FBI helped script it and anticipated a suicide following the broadcast. The guy who killed himself also had boots that matched the prints at the crime scene (HyTech boots, iirc).

by Anonymousreply 437April 3, 2011 4:31 AM

John Ramsey should be on death row but because of morons like R437 he walks the streets.

by Anonymousreply 438April 3, 2011 5:35 AM

Well, does anyone really think John Ramsey did it, R437? He definitely should have been booked on some conspiracy to cover-up the murder charges (don't know the technical term, not a lawyer) though.

The ransom note contained multiple lines very similar or identical to lines from DIRTY HARRY. I mean really. These weren't the words of a hardened killer; they were the words of someone frantically trying to divert the attention of law enforcement.

by Anonymousreply 439April 3, 2011 5:49 AM

Some expert talked about the ransom note. He felt it had been written by a woman but dictated by a man. I got a little confused by that part. He did say he wasn't blaming the Ramsey's but I wondered why not.

by Anonymousreply 440April 3, 2011 6:51 AM

Here's what I love:

People who insist on the innocence of those "nearest and dearest"---never mind the evidence and the motives inherent to familial situations---while ignoring that their imagined "real killer" has never been convicted, nor ever WILL be found and convicted.


Jeffrey MacDonald, OJ, the Ramseys.

by Anonymousreply 441April 7, 2011 12:46 PM

In my humble opinion it was someone in the family that killed her and the whole family was in on the cover up.

by Anonymousreply 442April 7, 2011 1:08 PM

Sorry if this has been said before but I can't read the whole thread.

I wish I could get my hands on the report but I've searched the internet to try to bring up the link I found but can't find it anywhere. About a couple years after the murder the Ramsey's hired a private investigator to work on the case. Alas his conclusion(much like the Skakel case) was that Patsy did it. His report to the Ramsey's was leaked. He was very methodical. To sum up his conclusions JonBenet, for some reason, died or was killed in the bathroom, as something about her head would matched the rounding of the bathtub.

His report was very factual and detailed. Of course he was fired and bound by a confidentiality clause in his contract. I wish I could find it for you guys to read though.

by Anonymousreply 443April 7, 2011 1:37 PM

Still looking. But I found this. I was wrong he was hired pretty soon after the murder.

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by Anonymousreply 444April 7, 2011 1:52 PM

Found this about what the housekeeper testified to in the grand jury. Interesting.

Former Ramsey housekeeper Linda Hoffmann-Pugh, speaking publicly for the first time about her testimony before the Boulder County grand jury, told reporters Thursday:

* She thought Patsy Ramsey had killed JonBenet.

* The grand jury seemed to zero in on Patsy Ramsey, and she thought it would indict her.

* A Swiss Army knife was found in the basement room where JonBenet's body was found.

* "Only Patsy could have put that knife there. I took it away from Burke (JonBenet's older brother) and hid it in a linen closet near JonBenet's bedroom. An intruder never would have found it. Patsy would have found it getting out clean sheets."

* Pieces of rope were tied around JonBenet's neck and wrist when her body was discovered Dec. 26, 1996.

* The blanket wrapped around JonBenet's body had been left in the dryer. There was still a Barbie Doll nightgown clinging to the blanket, so it had to have come out of the dryer recently, she said. Only Patsy would have known it was in the dryer, she said.

* An intruder never would have found the door to the basement room where JonBenet's body was discovered. It was too difficult to see unless someone knew it was there, she said.

by Anonymousreply 445April 7, 2011 1:57 PM

R445, lots of mere speculation in your post. I have seen tons of photos and diagrams of the house and that room was not difficult to find at all. Why would someone claim that? %0D %0D The housekeeper is also just speculating. Who's to say the knife stayed in the linen closet? %0D %0D Since I don't know where these "items" are coming from it's hard to place any any credibilty in them.%0D %0D If there had been ANY evidence linking a family member to her death they would have indicted them. It takes almost nothing to indict a defendant. And it doesn't take much more to convict in a case with a very sympathetic victim like this one.

by Anonymousreply 446April 7, 2011 7:08 PM

The stuff I put in R445 were part of the house keepers grand jury testimony.

by Anonymousreply 447April 7, 2011 7:18 PM

[quote] The stuff I put in [R445] were part of the house keepers grand jury testimony.%0D %0D %0D %0D Which doesn't mean much. She is still pretty much speculating. But I'd like to read it. Is it at Smoking Gun?

by Anonymousreply 448April 7, 2011 7:25 PM

r446, you completely ignore the status and popularity of Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey in their community, a status that afforded them official sympathy rather than suspicion.

You further completely ignore the overwhelming sympathy that would come with its being CHRISTMAS.

Good God, even that hick Susan Smith was given this treatment.

And just because we've all heard on TV that "one can indict even a ham sandwich," that doesn't make it so.

by Anonymousreply 449April 7, 2011 10:21 PM

"John Ramsey had collected the full amount by 7:30 AM on December 26th."

WHAT reports say this, r404?

by Anonymousreply 450April 9, 2011 6:49 PM

Here is an age progression of what JonBennet would have looked like at 16. Somehow I think that she would have had a little more makeup on.

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by Anonymousreply 451April 12, 2011 1:08 AM

I always thought it was John Andrew Ramsey, the visiting college aged son, and the coverup was done by her parents.

by Anonymousreply 452December 1, 2012 6:49 PM

Except that he wasn't visiting.

by Anonymousreply 453December 1, 2012 8:45 PM

Could it have been a woman LIKE Patsy Ramsey (education, status, upbringing) but NOT Patsy Ramsey? One of those neighbors or party guests married to the person who did kill Jon Benet, the writer's husband.

by Anonymousreply 454December 2, 2012 4:34 PM

Funny how we can get used to everything. I remember the morning after christmas when this murder happened. I casually turned the tv on and I saw this very grotesque scene of a near toddler dressed as Miss Universe. It looked really freakish.

And yet today, everyone seems to think these kinds of pageants are normal, nearly mainstream.

by Anonymousreply 455December 2, 2012 6:34 PM

R451, I want to get a job with them.

by Anonymousreply 456December 2, 2012 6:49 PM

Say what you will, but I have lovely penmanship.

by Anonymousreply 457December 2, 2012 6:59 PM

R453, I misinterpreted my reading, as he spent Christmas with his mother (not Patsy Ramsey)

by Anonymousreply 458December 2, 2012 9:31 PM

[quote]In my humble opinion it was someone in the family that killed her

It's people like you that fill our jails full of innocent people. No one cares what you think, except some moron who'll let you sit on a jury.

And the only people on juries are those TOO STUPID to figure a way out of it

by Anonymousreply 459December 2, 2012 9:43 PM

Burke did it.

End of thread

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by Anonymousreply 460December 2, 2012 9:55 PM

R459: And it is angry people like you who fill our jails with guilty people -- themselves.

by Anonymousreply 461December 2, 2012 10:05 PM

r455 - This case really publicized the kiddie pageant world, but I wouldn't say it normalized it.

Though it's odd to think that in some way JBR led us to Honey Boo Boo.

by Anonymousreply 462December 2, 2012 10:11 PM

[quote]Though it's odd to think that in some way JBR led us to Honey Boo Boo.

If only.

by Anonymousreply 463December 2, 2012 10:18 PM

For those who think Burke did it, do you think he remembers? I don't remember much of my childhood.

by Anonymousreply 464December 2, 2012 10:46 PM

Actually Datalounge's own M has a decent outline of reasons that Patsy was the killer...

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by Anonymousreply 465December 2, 2012 10:50 PM

I wonder if I murdered any of my siblings in childhood and forgot about it?

by Anonymousreply 466December 2, 2012 10:50 PM

An unknown killer wouldn't have covered up the body. Only someone close to the victim and who couldn't bear to look at what they had done.

by Anonymousreply 467December 3, 2012 3:50 AM

r464 He was like ten at the time.

Yeah I guess you probably wouldn't remember the night your sister was MURDERED IN HER OWN HOME.

What a fuckin' dumbass this guy is.

It's assholes like this, why they Internet needs to be regulated. People like that should be locked away in a mental institution.

by Anonymousreply 468December 3, 2012 5:11 AM

R468 is not familiar with repressed memories.

R465's link offered me new perspective on John Ramsey. I have never really followed this case, but have seen the Ramsy's interviewed. JR always came across as a well spoken, calm tempered, sincere guy. I didn't realize what a shrewd business man he was. It was his charm and communiation skills that made his company a billion dollars that year. Businessmen know how to effectively communicate to get what they want and are nome above lying. I now question his sincerity and integrity.

by Anonymousreply 469December 3, 2012 12:46 PM

I bet it was suicide. JonBent was furious over her loss at a recent pageant. Then when she found out John just got 118,000 dollars in bonus money, she demanded to know why here parents didn't use that money to "buy" her the pageant win.

JonBenet was a very poor sport and she was known to pop antidepressants to get high.

by Anonymousreply 470December 4, 2012 7:03 AM

[quote]And yet today, everyone seems to think these kinds of pageants are normal, nearly mainstream.

No, they don't.

by Anonymousreply 471December 4, 2012 10:52 AM

[quote]The weird thing is that the semen on JonBenet's clothes did not match genetically with the male Ramseys. That was what eventually cleared the Ramseys with the police when Patsy was still alive.

Patsy was a devious gash. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she went out that night, sucked off a hobo, kept his jizz in her mouth on the drive back home and then spit it onto JonBenet to throw off suspicion.

by Anonymousreply 472December 4, 2012 11:06 AM

Geez, who gives a fuck? What losers you all are to sill be lisping excitedly about some little nobody's murder.

by Anonymousreply 473December 4, 2012 11:21 AM

And yet today, everyone seems to think these kinds of pageants are normal, nearly mainstream.

No, they don't

Well, I havent lived in the USA for many years, but speaking for myself I no longer feel as shocked when I see those little girls in kiddie pageants as I was in the aftermath of the JonBenet case. Somehow I got used to it.

by Anonymousreply 474December 5, 2012 12:47 AM

R474, I agree with you. My initial shock and disgust over the pageants after the Ramsey murder has now mellowed somewhat.

by Anonymousreply 475December 5, 2012 5:22 PM

[quote]JonBenet was a very poor sport and she was known to pop antidepressants to get high.

Now, Patsy, you know that's not true. The only pills she popped were your Oxycontins.

by Anonymousreply 476December 5, 2012 5:45 PM

There was no semen on JonBenet's clothing. There was DNA not belonging to the Ramsey's but that could have come from the manufacturer or the store - there's no telling.

by Anonymousreply 477December 5, 2012 5:49 PM

[quote]I went with a friend of mine to visit Jon Benet's grave in the Atlanta area.


by Anonymousreply 478December 5, 2012 6:00 PM

It's obvious the Ramsey's boy did the killing, and the parents tried to cover it up.

The main thing no one mentioned to rule out an intruder is the fact that there WERE NO FOOTPRINTS in the snow.

Plus, Burke was the feces smearing freak. Smearing feces at his age, is a sign of one or two things:

Mental retardation, which he was not, or emotionally disturbed.

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by Anonymousreply 479December 6, 2012 7:46 AM

"Burking" is a technique used by a couple of other famous mass murders. This is how they used to kill their victims. In the old days it was hard to uncover a murder when someone "Burked" them.

by Anonymousreply 480December 7, 2012 3:01 AM

[quote]For those who think Burke did it, do you think he remembers? I don't remember much of my childhood.

Well yeah, but I CERTAINLY would remember whether or not I KILLED ANYONE!

Remember how long and inconclusive the investigation was about whether or note the ransom note was written by Patsy Ramsey?

by Anonymousreply 481December 7, 2012 4:23 AM

OMG R472.... You are one sick fuck..... And I love you for it!!!!

by Anonymousreply 482December 7, 2012 4:45 AM

R479, what was going on in the family home w/Burke smearing feces??? and JonBenet in those pageants???

by Anonymousreply 483December 7, 2012 4:53 AM

Burke was named after a technique used to kill people called "Burking"

They were the infamous murderers Burke and Hare....

He is guilty as H-E-L-L

It's a shame the pussy let his mum take the blame.

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by Anonymousreply 484December 7, 2012 6:45 AM

Jon-Benet was killed by a man who came in, strolled around for hours on end without being detected and noisily choked a small girl without anyone hearing.

It happens all the time.

by Anonymousreply 485December 7, 2012 10:01 AM

hold your water Jon Benet!!!!

by Anonymousreply 486December 7, 2012 10:06 AM

R485, That was not possible, because NO ONE entered or left the home. Otherwise, there would have been footprints in the snow.

Since, it didn't snow that night, how can you think someone entered the home, killed the child, and left?

by Anonymousreply 487December 8, 2012 6:57 AM

Oh Fucking Christ, R487. R485 isn't being serious. Don't be so literal.

by Anonymousreply 488December 8, 2012 10:34 AM

Ring Christmas bells, then go to hell....

by Anonymousreply 489December 8, 2012 11:05 AM

r487 is on the autism spectrum.

by Anonymousreply 490December 8, 2012 11:29 AM

Btw I don't buy that Burke did it. I think he was smearing faeces and whatnot because he was probably suffering the same sexual abuse that Jonbenet was suffering. Or he was at least exposed to it in some way.

by Anonymousreply 491December 8, 2012 11:32 AM

Patsy did not do it. John is the sole killer. End of story!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 492December 12, 2013 12:54 AM

Why don't they just require all the people in Colorado to have a blood test, then test the seaman to find the guilty one?

by Anonymousreply 493February 6, 2014 3:32 PM

There was no semen on her, even if that were a possible way of finding the killer.

by Anonymousreply 494February 6, 2014 3:43 PM

You ought to look into the pedophile ring known as the Fat Cats...

by Anonymousreply 495February 12, 2015 5:37 PM

No one shoots at Santa Claus!

by Anonymousreply 496February 12, 2015 5:55 PM

New segment on 20/20.

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by Anonymousreply 497February 1, 2021 12:00 AM
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