Andrew Cunanan

Great question, OP and a great thread. This is something that DL can really sink it's little fangs into.

He went insane after his lover left him for his ex. So he started murdering his ex-johns. He tortured them.

i don't believe the andrew cunanan rent boy/serial killer story one bit. versace was hit by the mob.

Hit by the mob? I never heard that one before. Supposedly people followed Cunanan (after the Versace murder) to the garage where his stolen truck was parked.

Why would Versace have been the victim of a mob hit? He didn't need their money or connections.

Cunanan murdered 7 people in all.

Lee Miglin was married to Marilyn Miglin, perfume company owner.

"Why would Versace have been the victim of a mob hit? He didn't need their money or connections." No? He made palace-on-South-Beach money putting couture on runway models? Not that I believe anybody but Cunanan murdered him, but Versace most likely had mob connections.

All I remember was the news shrieking about the gay killer on the loose! %0D %0D HE MAY BE DRESSED AS A WOMAN!!!! BEWARE!!!

I have over the years - for nearly 10 now - had the hottest occasional dalliance with this fucking hot as hell italian private escort in NYC. He still takes my breath away after all these years.

But I've always wondered if he got really desperate would he come to me like Cunanan did and end up murdering me.

Marilyn's skin is almost transluscent. Her skin care regimen used to be quite the best seller on OVC. She was a real trooper going on with the show despite the tragedy/scandal.

MissHelenBedd, if your lovely escort ever got really desperate and came to murder you, I'm sure he'd have to stand in line.

Hey R11 I think you're in the wrong thread hon.

Marilyn is a sweet and generous lady, my sister worked for her in Chicago years ago.%0D BTW, she's on HSN not QVC.

I also wondered if Cunanan murdered his first wealthy lover, I assume that he did.%0D %0D The truth is, he would kill because he needed money, so who can tell how many he killed?

Did Lee fuck Andrew or was it his son, Duke?

Well, the guy (caretaker) he killed in the cemetery in Jersey was random...Cunanan just needed his truck. %0D %0D and%0D %0D R13, he is talking about Lee Miglin's wife, you twit.

I can easily believe that the actual murder count is higher than the official one.%0D %0D If some of his victims were married, respectable, and even influential, the families and police might have hushed up certain murders with a gay rentboy angle. This would be even more likely once Cunanan died, and no more justice could be done.

[quote]I've always wondered if he got really desperate would he come to me like Cunanan did and end up murdering me.%0D %0D At last, I've got a reason to pray. A world free of mhb would be a wonderful world.

Why would Versace have been the victim of a mob hit? He didn't need their money or connections."%0D %0D No? He made palace-on-South-Beach money putting couture on runway models?%0D %0D Versace licensed his name for ready to wear lines AND for lots of other products, including furnishings, dishware and linens. He was an international marketing strategist in that regard, like Calvin Klein, Ralph Lauren, Diane Von Furstenburg and Gloria Vanderbilt. He made boodles of money beyond simply putting couture on anorexic runway models. His name was worth a fortune. He had good business sense. So, yes, he had "palace on South Beach money" without the need for mafia connections. In fact, that is the first I have ever heard of a mafia connection. Who might he have pissed off? And to the extent that someone offed him? Theories in that regard?

he deserved to die.

There were also some news people claiming Cunanan had AIDS and was killing due to a death wish. As it turned out, he didn't have the disease; I don't he was even HIV positive.

The mafia connections would, as these narratives go, have been at the START of the career.

And MissHelenBedd, I think you've worried a lot of us with the tale of visiting that escort. We're very worried for the poor man.

I remembered seeing pictures of Andrew dead. thinking I would post one here, I found a plethora of pics and info by googling "Andrew Cunanan Death" images.

Warning. dead body pictures.

I really recommend Gary Indiana's meditation on the whole thing, "Three Month Fever." It's about Cunanan, but oh so much more.

Was Lee the older man who he tied up with duct tape and tortured with gardening implements? He virtually made a mummy of him, then made tons of cuts in him with the implements. If I remember correctly the media tried to make it appear random...even though the house hadn't been broken into, and he'd obviously been invited inside.

DAMN!! What a horrible way to die:%0D %0D Lee Miglin (1925 %C3%A2%C2%80%C2%93 May 4, 1997) was a Chicago real estate developer who made millions in the building boom of the 1980s. Miglin was the third victim of Andrew Cunanan's 1997 murder spree. He was gouged, stabbed and tortured with five-foot-long pruning shears before he was ultimately defeated by a garden saw to the throat.

The thing is this...Cunanan was engaging in revenge against everyone he'd ever felt slighted and abused by. Why some of these specific people? He took that secret to his grave.

What I found most interesting was that you absolutely cannot trust the media to tell the truth when it comes to gay people. They repeatedly referred to Cunanan as a homosexual murderer, yet "inned" Miglin and pretended he was heterosexual and had no connection to Cunanan. Everyone knew that was bullshit, but the media shoveled that shit none-the-less.

Did Cunanan really first meet Verace at the San Francisco Opera years before? Did Cunanan spend a summer in the Hamptons as the "guest" of a wealthy older man, and was that man on the way to being one of the victims (which is why Cunanan stole that truck in New Jersey) before Cunanan changed his mind and drove to Florida instead? There are so many unanswered questions about this case (which riveted me at the time) - I guess we'll never know what was going thru this killer's mind...

Cunanan is a horrible representative of gay people. So, he was rejected in his life. Join the very big, generally non-murdering club.

"No? He made palace-on-South-Beach money putting couture on runway models?"

Yes.

That and by building up a huge, highly profitable company via licensing as most superstar fashion designers do.

Do you think Chanel, Valentino and Lauren were/are also in debt to the mafia?

"Did Cunanan really first meet Verace at the San Francisco Opera years before?"

I thought they met at Lake Como, or at least Versace thought so when he met Cunana again.

Were Jeffrey Trail and David Madson fucking?

Has anyone seen this? Apparently, Stacey Dash is in this movie, but I didn't see her in the trailer.

SKILF

So what is the real story about Miglin? I also found it suspicious that it was so-called random. The guy had gay face.

Okay boys, let's start pooling our pennies together. How much do you think Miss HB's "hot" escort will charge to off the bitch?

I didn't ever think that the Miglin murder was cosidered random. I assumed that Cunannan was a former trick of his and had come back to kill him and I lived in Chicago during this time. I don't remember the media trying to "in" him per se, just not really discussing it in the same way that certain families never discuss uncle Barney and his "friend" Claude but everyone knows anyway.

There was a documentary that aired on HBO (was it "Fashion Victim: The Killing of Gianna Versace"? or some Italian production?) that was interesting mostly for its perspective of Versace's business dealings. %0D %0D They touched only a bit on the mafia rumors generally, but the more interesting allegation was that, in his lifetime, the business was a precarious house of cards, a Ponzi scheme of massive ad buying that was orders of magnitude above what the established fashion houses, with their deep pockets and backers had ever taken on. The outgoings on advertising and PR and image and Gianni's palaces were wildly in excess of income, or even of the most optimistic projections of income.

Oh no, r39, he was a genius and had his name on all sorts of lines, he couldn't POSSIBLY have been in way over his head.

Why is everyone so fascinated by Miglin, but pays so little attention to the caretaker he killed in N.J.? Was that guy also "inned"? Do you care, since he wasn't rich or glamorous?

NJ caretaker had a 9-inch cock.

[quote]Why would Versace have been the victim of a mob hit? %0D %0D For not making clothes that fit & flatter big fat Italian women.

Am I having delusions or didn't someone try to stage a Cunanan musical?

r543, you mean "big fat Italian-AMERICAN women".%0D %0D Clearly, you have never ben to Italy.%0D %0D Who couldn't figure out all AC's victims (sans one) were gay?

"r43"%0D %0D "been"%0D %0D Can't type.

In addition to the HBO documentary about Versace's murder, there was a movie made about Cunanan himself. Originally also called "Fashion Victim," the title was changed to "Murder in Fashion" to avoid confusion (There is also a gay indie movie called "Fashion Victims" that has nothing to do with Versave or Cunanan).

Not a very good movie, but might be worth a look to those who are obsessed with Cunanan's persona. He's played by Jonathan Trent, whom you may remember as the twink with the long tongue in "Boy Culture." I only gave the film two stars out of five on my Yahoo group, but you might add a star for the eye candy, if you are so inclined. Trailer is at IMDB site below (The film has its own website, but the trailer link on there doesn't seem to work.)

Actually I had heard of the mafia connection to Versace but I assumed it was at the beginning of his career. I also assumed they lived beyond their means. I don't understand why his family would never even talk about the possibility that he had met Cunanan? The victim didn't cause his own death.

The caretaker was only killed for his truck. He was not tortured, he was simply shot. There was no reason to even shoot him but I don't believe Andrew thought human life had any value.

Cunanan was a psychotic man who never felt good enough. I'm sure the shit he got from DL-like queens during his chubby periods didn't help matters.

Why does everyone assume that the caretaker wasn't gay?

cunannan suffered from combination of steroids and speed.

same thing with OJ simpson when he slahsed nicole

What I found most interesting in reading about this was the Hillcrest stores that were fronts for drug dealing back when Cunanan was there. I saw him out once and someone said "you can't afford that one." There is the thought that he was doing so much meth that triggered the psychosis.

No R45, I didn't err.%0D %0D Ciao!

Bump, bump, bump.

True story: I have friends in common with Andrew Cunanan and probably met him when I was in college although I don't remember him. My friend saw him about a month before the killing spree in SF at some club and chatted with him a bit. In retrospect, my friend said Cunanan seemed weird. Just a strange fact of life.

Can we at least agree there may be an Italian escort in NYC we may want to hire for a special "job"?

He was so smart, he could have been successful at anything he wanted to do, perhaps he did get sidetracked by drugs?

Didn't Andrew kill his first wealthy lover? That is my feeling anyway. I know the killing was blamed on a homeless man but I would guess Cunanan was the real culprit.

DIdn't Vanity Fair do an extensive article on Andrew and Gianni and his "lifestyle?" shortly after the murders?%0D %0D Also, I know Dominic Dunne wrote a novel with a fictionalized version of Andrew. Don't remember the name of it, but DD supposedly included lots of actual, dirty gossip and factual information tied to that whole scene with Andrew et al. Was it "Another Country Not My Own?" It was some kind of overwrought title.

Didn't the Versace family try to screw GV's boyfriend out of anything when he died? I seem to recall Donatella and the BF have bad blood.

[quote]Can we at least agree there may be an Italian escort in NYC we may want to hire for a special "job"?%0D %0D I think you've found the one reason for all DLers to come together. %0D %0D

Andrew Cunanan killed my aerobics class instructor in Minneapolis by shooting him.

The story of Jeff Trail and David...there was something strange about that whole situation. Did David know Jeff was dead but was unable to go for help?

Andrew had a beautiful smile.

Yes, r65, a killer smile. It was probably the last thing his victims saw before he, you know, murdered them.

Was your instructor Jeff or David, R63?

David, R67

r64, I wonder if David thought he was either going to die or get Andrew to turn himself in. He must had been scared shitless - watching his ex-lover bash in the head of his new friend. They said that David was trying to be a friend to Andrew - as David was warned that Andrew was a big lying mess.

Still you would think that David could had gotten away - maybe Andrew was all hopped up on speed plus he somehow got a gun.

Well, since David taught aerobics, it's probably safe to assume he told Cunanan he was fat and that's why he was killed.

They had an S&M relationship. David was submissive. He was probably tied up when Andrew killed Jeff.

Cunanan really isn't THAT interesting. I mean, he's a run of the mill sociopathic, fucked up multiple murderer. The fact he was gay really doesn't add anything for me.

I think the story is interesting. The investigation was originally bungled and I wonder if Cunanan could have been picked up before he killed Versace, if the police and FBI had done a better job. It seemed like the gay community in Miami, had not been informed.

So, was Lee Miglin on the DL or was he truly an innocent bystander? His son, Duke, is gay and police initially investigated any possible connection between him and Cunanan (and found none).

vanity fair article on Cunanan

Maureen Orth's "Vulgar Favors" expands on that article.

Jeff Trail is the one I feel for. Nice guy, handsome, decent, showed kindness to a loser, and wound up... ! And his boyfriend, having to come out to his parents and tell them his bf was killed in that fashion.. Jeff wanted to celebrate the bf's birthday and avoid Cunanan. Fate.

Cunanan was an entitled,lazy,envious snob with no wealth, so he went after all those he envied. Abomination.

Jeff Trail was the kind of guy I always hoped for

It's too bad things had to end like that for our Andrew.

I hate to admit it, but I dated him for a while in 1993. He was a whack-job. He was good looking and had a nice cock and a tasty asshole but he could be cruel and abusive. I couldn't get away from him fast enough. As bad as he was, I was still surprised at what he ended up doing.

R78, how was he abusive??

r78, more details, please.

R78! You dated a serial killer, and now the best you can do is sheepishly recall that he had a nice cock and a tasty asshole! You should be grateful that Andrew didn't off you as well!

I imagine there are many men who had been with Cunanan in different cities and shuddered when this crime occurred.

r82 Shuddered? Not really. It was more like "oh, that's what that queen got up to...cluck cluck... Babe! My wine glass is almost empty!! Refill."

UPDATE - BREAKING NEWS: Beyoncé is officially over a million copies of her latest in just 3 days. Woo-hoo. Gurl workin' it for sure.

[quote]"Did Cunanan really first meet Verace at the San Francisco Opera years before?"

[quote]I thought they met at Lake Como, or at least Versace thought so when he met Cunana again.

The story from Orth's article:

[quote]Friends remember that Cunanan often drop­ped Versace’s name, and during my investigation I learned that the two men had met in the past. They had come in contact in a San Francisco nightclub, Colossus, in 1990; Versace was in town because he had designed costumes for the San Francisco Opera. That night, October 21, an eyewitness recalls, Cunanan was smugly pleased that Versace seemed to recognize him. “I know you,” Versace said, wagging a finger in the then 21-year-old’s direction. “Lago di Como, no?” And Cunanan replied, “Thank you for remembering, Signor Versace.” It is not clear that there really was anything to remember, or that Andrew Cunanan had ever been near Versace’s house on Lake Como.

[quote]Cunanan murdered 7 people in all

Isn't it 5?

[quote]I know that when Lee Miglin was first found dead, the Chicago power brokers wanted to pretend that it had nothing to do with Cunanan but the fact could not be hidden.

It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this without being told.

The caretaker was NOT gay...he was normal.

Trail, Madson, Reese (caretaker), and Versace. Who's the fifth? (or 6th and 7th for that matter)

Miglin is the fifth.

R74: anyone have any info?

According to the VF article Duke Miglin wasn't gay

Thanks, R90. That was one hell of senior moment! I'm kind of scaring myself...

The VF article says that the authorities found an old Architectural Digest at Cunanan's SD apartment that featured Lee Miglin's business partner's home. One of Cunanan's friends from SD told the FBI that Cunanan said he was going into business with Duke Miglin, but the authorities never pursued it.

Lee Miglin was a real estate tycoon. Money like his can buy a lot of influence and silence, and it did. Who can blame the family, though, for wanting this to go away? Cunanan clearly knew the Miglin couple's schedules, as his wife was out of town and Cunanan took his time torturing and ultimately murdering her husband.

The Miglins were devout Catholics who had a chapel on the lower level of their townhouse in Chicago's Gold Coast. Ignorant cops first on the scene thought they were Satanists…

I met Cunanan when he was on the run. After he left NY, before turning to Florida, he came up to Boston. He was at the Fritz Bar wearing clothes that were at least a couple sizes too large. It must have been a Thurs, Fri, or Sat ight. I recall he had an accent I couldn't place. I thought at the time it was mid-western, but it was just plain. It was definetly not an Eastern US accent, which I would have recognized. He lied repeatedly to the kind of get-to-know-ya questions one might ask in meeting someone at a bar. Such as saying he was a regular there; whereas, I live a couple blocks away but had never seen him there before. Plus he also said it was his first time there. He left the bar in a hurry after deciding not to kill me, uh, I mean, after I told him he contradicted himself, and he got in a truck across the street.

No, I didn't call the police. I told my friends in the bar after he left, and they didn't believe me, so I figured no one would - and, I had trouble believing it myself. I thought that it just couldn't be possible. But over the following days, I became convinced that it was as I first thought. I haven't read anything that says there is evidence that he drove north of New York, but that doesn't mean he didn't!

The Lee Miglin part isnt much of a mystery. the real questions are about that bizarre Jeffrey Trail / David Madson story. Wtf was going on there?!

[italic]His family has said Miglin and Cunanan did not know each other. [/italic].

Sounds fishy. Not the same as "the police found no prior connection between Miglin and Cunanan".

Lee Miglin: Moderate gayface, but inconclusive.

[quote]I know that when Lee Miglin was first found dead, the Chicago power brokers wanted to pretend that it had nothing to do with Cunanan but the fact could not be hidden.

Why? Was it just to avoid publicity, or was there a reason they wanted Cunanan's name not associated with him?

He has a very Eastern European face so that may be a factor in the inconclusive call. Putin and a lot of Slavs have a moderate gay face. It's kind the the gaydar being thrown off by Puerto Ricans.

Someone I know in San Diego told me that before Cunanan was found dead, all sorts of people were worried that he was going to show up at Sand Diego Pride to start shooting and "go out in a blaze of glory."

To which I naturally reponded, "MARY!"

He was so brazen to go to clubs in Boston and Miami (and NYC) after his name and face became associated with the murders after Miglin's body was found.

He must have been high to have said that he was a regular and that it was his first time there in a short conversation.

[quote]Why? Was it just to avoid publicity, or was there a reason they wanted Cunanan's name not associated with him?

The VF article mentions a business fraternity (can't recall the Greek letters) of a few hundred wealthy men, some of whom are closeted and Republican. Some spoke openly to Orth, but many weren't open. Many members of the fraternity were warned of Cunanan by the FBI because he'd been a member's live-in rentboy. Point being that some were probably in Chicago and didn't want the association with Miglin.

I read a lot about this after Cunanan was found, and I seem to remember several sordid connections that could be to Lee Miglin, but my old brain cannot remember. There was also something about Marilyn Miglin deflecting.

I think a better movie needs to be made about Cunanan.

Of course family says Lee Miglin didn't know Cunanan, how would they know? Lee never would've mentioned him.

Its obvious why they want to believe prominent family man Miglin wasnt tricking SM scenes with a young dude who turned out to be violent psycho and did him so low like that. Sadistic bastard Cunanan mummified and tortured Lee to death then slept in Lee's bed, ate a sandwich, shaved in his sink. family is in denial that Lee let him in.

Yes r 105 this:

[quote]family is in denial that Lee let him in[quote]

R105, if you're addressing me (R103), I was referring to R100 who asked why Chicago power brokers wanted to pretend it had nothing to do with Cunanan when the story broke.

[quote]Of course family says Lee Miglin didn't know Cunanan, how would they know? Lee never would've mentioned him.

If they knew each other, I am thinking that they would have found evidence of their relationship that Lee had always managed to cover up when he was alive. Photos, messages, secret bank accounts/transfers, a secret apartment......

It was probably the first time they hooked up, and back then an old man probably didn't do much email that would leave a paper trail.

What is the theory on the days Cunanan and Madson stayed together in Madson's apartment with Trail's bashed in corpse on the floor?? They walked the dog together etc for days before Cunanan killed Madson. WTF was going on there?

I heard the Mafia stories too. Supposedly they helped finance the startup.

I'm sure Madson was terrified.

Ironic that ultimately, Cunanan got exactly what he wanted. All of these years later and we're all still talking about him. I agree that there is so much more to the story that the journalists to date that have written about it have missed. Lost opportunity.

Terrified yeah, but ........ Madson's best friend's pretty face got beat in with a hammer, the corpse is lying on the floor, and he's keeping house with the murderer? They left and returned to the apt together, why didn't Madson GTFO then?

The explanation I've seen is that Madson was the sub in a SM relationship ....... um, so what, wtf was wrong with him for taking it to that extreme then?

I kind of agree about Madsen. It sounds like he had absolutely no flight instinct until the very end when Cunanan pulled the gun on him. Then I think he was shot in the back, no ??

Cunanan represents the darkest side of humanity and it played out in a closeted rich gay world and exposed people who were very quiet about their private lives. As someone about mentioned, the San Diego gay community was really spooked about his crime spree as it played out and no one could find him but only dead bodies of former boyfriends (or tricks).

San Diego gay community is not large like San Francisco, Los Angeles or New York. Many people knew him or those he was involved with.

bump

R112 Exactly, which is why I'd rather mention Jeff Trail, whp really seemed like a decent guy, and leave the killer unnamed.

R113 Trail wasn't Madsen's best friend. He'd taken a job in the Midwest with a company friendly to veteran's, after leaving the CHP. Orth's book mentions that he told his father that CHP wasn't friendly to alternative lifestyles, even as Trail eas out to his sisters, but not his parents.

Evidence has lost because Trail's best friend removed items from Trail's apartment, so that his family wouldn't find his porno stash, as well as sloppy police work.

Malignant narcissist

I was at a party with AC, days before he began his killing spree. He was trying to connect with anyone at the party. It was a strange party, at a house in San Francisco, there were old gay guys and hot, young, buff SoCal straightish boys there. It was all very bizarre. I was with a girl and Andrew was tellng everyone she was his Sister. The boy was into labels and glitz. the other guys at the party were weird, not normal SF weird, like, freaky, otherworldly weird. I guess it was hustlers and their daddies. A week later I think, I was in Newport, RI and these detectives came into a gay bar I was hanging out in and they were looking for Andrew, they spied me pretty closely because we're similar in age and looks.

Andrew just needed pretty things.

R103 has it exactly right and the whole, true story will never be known. Cunanan was one of the hangers on of Gamma Mu and wanted to live the lifestyle. Every victim was a member. After the first murder the word went out to not talk to anyone about it as the members were mostly older, mostly Republican, mostly closeted, extremely wealthy and didn't want the publicity or details coming out. Everyone closed ranks and it was never spoken of publicly.

Those two young guys Madson and Trail were gamma mu too?

Does anyone think Cunanan looks like Dean Cain?

[quote]... Cunanan was one of the hangers on of Gamma Mu and wanted to live the lifestyle. Every victim was a member....

I don't believe the caretaker or Gianni Versace were members of this fraternity.

Its striking how sadistic the murders of Trail, Madson and Miglin. The way he defiled their bodies and their homes, staying on with brutalized corpse on the floor. He even defiled the victim's memories with those sadistic scenes. What a fucking psycho, I thought SM is supposed to be a game.

R124: I agree, which is why I suspect Cunanan and Miglin had some kind of relationship beforehand.

The caretaker and Vesace weren't tortured.

Freddy Prinze Jr. should play him in the Lifetime movie.

[quote]The Miglins were devout Catholics who had a chapel on the lower level of their townhouse in Chicago's Gold Coast. Ignorant cops first on the scene thought they were Satanists…

Holy shit! Don't they have any Catholic cops in Chicago? Surely the Poles and the Irish?

So many gay serial killers

Jeff Trail wasn't Gamma Mu, and neither was Madsen.

Norman Blachford, the sugar daddy who wasn't keeping the killer in the style he thought he dezerved, was in that circle.

The killer killed what he coveted, what he couldn't be, those who had achieved what he felt entitled to and wanted handed to him.

Created nothing, only destroyed. Worst of the worst.

I guess you are right, r129.

Has a book been written on these events?

R131 Maureen Orth wrote "Vulgar Favors", chronicling the events and what precipitated them. There are othets as well.

TY

Three Month Fever by Gary Utah is another book written.

Ha Ha. Sorry, that would be Gary INDIANA

The first book has a few marginal reviews:

Many pages about a psychotic narcissist can be wearying, and Maureen Orth does a lot of pearl clutching about some fairly benign gay sex stuff.

TY for second book selection also.

The Gary Indiana book is fantastic. It's "about" Cunanan while really being about end stage America.

Interesting, I liked some of Gary Indiana's stuff in the past. Is his Cunanan book fiction though? Docu-drama?

Did anyone here know Andrew Cunanan?

R139 It's practically a love letter to the murderer.

The Gary Indiana book is very good.

bump

It's too bad he killed himself. It would have been a sensational trial.

I think many of us have known someone who acted out like Andrew Cunanan when he was young and having men chase after him.

Cunanan could have had a wealthy sophisticated Euro Daddy but he didn't apply himself properly.

He needed to work diligently to look good, work on etiquette, learn other languages and declare some kind of interesting profession. He could have done it, but alas...

Come on Madsen had to be in on the murder of Jeff? How could a man not fight or run? Walking the dog..run like shit!

[quote]The Gary Indiana book is very good.

That's the town that knew me when!

Surprised the Ted Bundy troll hasn't found this thread

Good lord. Pic of Cunanan's dick (because I know people would be interested in seeing it).

NSFW

What did Andrew know that made the Canaanites (through their FBI stooges)so intent on rubbing him out??!!

THAT'S what we want to know.

R150 Please go back to that other site, the ersatz DL. You are spouting anti-Semitic bile which is funny because you are a plastic paddy. You are a fake Irishman , you are really an Irish American with an Irish passport so that makes you an utter fraud.

r150 betrays her extreme ignorance. The Canaanites were but one tribe, a very small percentage of all Jews. It is in the Old testament that they originated from demons mating with humans. But they were(are) what they are and hatred ot them is NOT anti-semitism. BTW, they changed their name to the Phoenicians around 1200 BC and from there they founded the city of Venice in the 5th century. They have spread like cancer.

Ummmm who gives a shit

What does the religion post have to do with this story? Where did poster find this nude photo of AC?

Andrew Cunanan murdered my aerobics instructor in Minneapolis.

Duke Miglin is definitely gay - he used to come into the gay bar that my brother worked at.

That's all I got.

r156, so you think visit to Miglin house had nothing to do with the father except that he was home?

R157 - no, I know Andrew knew Duke. I believe Duke was involved in the SF Opera as well - the one with Versace.

This is just a thought - and mine alone, I have no proof and it's 100% pure speculation - but I think Duke rejected Andrew and may have humiliated him by calling him out on bullshit at the opera in front of Versace.

I don't think Lee Miglin was necessarily gay - although he could have been. But I think Andrew tortured Lee to get back at Duke somehow. It doesn't make sense to kill someone like that you don't know unless there is another motive.

Then again - he was on meth I've heard so...

r158, Lee was also bi at least and into BDSM, at what level I don't know.

It was mentioned in articles about it at the time, and one of the books about the case (Indiana and Orth).

The Orth book is frustrating because she implied at the end that Cunanan was more connected than was initially reported.

A lot of loose ends, including the number of victims and his client list, were left hanging.

I could easily believe he killed more people.

Oh, and he was HIV+ according to Orth. She also claimed that Versace was, too, and that's why he was targeted. Cunanan was tipped over the edge by his status.

I'm reading the Indiana book now

Does Indiana mention the death of Todd Loren founder of Rock and Roll Comics. His death was a mystery and some people believe Andrew C did it.

Did Cunanan kill Versace because he thinks was the one who made him HIV positive?

R162 .... I'm pretty sure that autopsy results or something else indicated that Cunanan was NOT even HIV+

link below.......

[quote]Cunanan could have had a wealthy sophisticated Euro Daddy but he didn't apply himself properly.

[quote] I have no proof and it's 100% pure speculation - but I think Duke rejected Andrew and may have humiliated him by calling him out on bullshit at the opera in front of Versace.

Along these lines, Orth reported in the VF article that Cunanan had been having trouble hooking up with guys his own age and had a string of rejections. She also mentioned that he had let his appearance go to seed and had put on a lot of weight (the article notes he wore 36" waist pants). It's been a while since I read it, but as I recall it almost sounded like old men were about the best he could hope for given his, um, limitations.

Continuous rejection by rich and/or attractive men could have been the ultimate narcissistic wound that Cunanan was trying to avenge on those who had everything he wanted: looks, money, and fame

Weird that the article I linked at R164 reads that The Miami Herald reported this information ........ BUT within the article it says this:

Cunanan's HIV test results are not being disclosed by the medical examiner's office because Florida law prohibits disclosure in most cases unless a court order is obtained.

So how could the Miami Herald 'report' anything ?

So, take it with a grain of salt, I guess.

Probably just sloppy reporting on the part of the Deseret News. The Herald probably got the court order. (at least you'd think they would try)

I'm still curious about Lee Miglin and other excessively wealthy, closeted gay men, on the North Side.

Cunanan killed at least 5 people. He was not a gay serial killer. He was a spree killer. He was just a mentally ill gay guy who harbored twisted violent fantasies since he was a child.

With the exception of his ex-boyfriend and the ex-boyfriend's new boyfriend, Cunanan had no personal connection to his victims.

He killed Versace. It was not a mob hit.

Versace and Cunanan happened to be at the same party once and Versace mistakenly thought he knew Cunanan from somewhere and then approached Cunanan and spoke to him briefly. Cunanan was soooooo excited! (Versace came to talk to HIM, not the other way around.)

Both Miglin and Versace enjoyed escorts. Lee Miglin was at least bi, and into BDSM as another poster stated.

I personally believe that Cunanan was HIV+, Versace definitely was.

I think Cunanan resented the lifestyle he could never acquire on his own, and the cost of trying to obtain it.

Indiana's book is considered fiction, but it contains a lot of truths.

That was a long time ago but I just wonder about Miglin's connections. I naturally assumed that Lee picked up Andrew in one of the near by gay bars?

R171: earlier in this thread, it was reported that Lee was a part of a group of heavily closeted Republican businessmen. Andrew was passed around the group, as were other rentboys.

OMG r149's pic shows him to be REALLY small. Wouldn't you have thought an escort would have been better hung? Lots of gys in porn have MUCH bigger penises.

Thanks r172, I'm curious about those men.

Is the Widow Miglin still hawking her crap on HSN?

Marilyn maybe nice and all but her cosmetics are lopw quality and very expensive (in her store) cheaper price but still low quality off shopping channel.

SO. Was her husband gay or bi? Is her son gay?

Marilyn always seems a little odd/off/high or something...even before all this scandal.

How old is she? Will her son be the cosmetics doyenee when she kicks?

It was my understanding that Cunanan thought he had the AIDS virus but that his autopsy revealed that he was negative.

The "wanted" pictures of Cunanan first appeared in the free gay magazines in LA for weeks.

Then, to see the same photos on the national news, with Versace turning it into a legendary tale, was hard to comprehend at the time.

R171 - you mean that place on the second floor (I forget the name)? That was just a pretentious hole in the wall with a location near Michigan Avenue. Someone with Lee Miglin's money would NOT be someone who patronized place like that. Frankly, I'd imagine he was a lot like other rich gay people - when he wanted to trick out, he'd get out of town - LA or NY or London, maybe Miami or somewhere he could find hot rentboys, and be assured a reasonable degree of anonymity.

About a year ago, the FBI files revealed the truth about Cunanan and Miglin-- they DID know each other very well:

According to several reports, the men were friends who on previous documented occasions paid a male prostitute for sexual services. The federal investigative file quotes an interview with a "rent boy" who had advertised his services in a local magazine. The man described how Miglin and Cunanan, driving in one car, had picked him up at arranged locations in Chicago and had sexual relations with Lee Miglin and Andrew.

That relationship would explain, for the first time with some certainty, how Cunanan knew the 72-year-old Miglin and had knowledge of where he lived on the Gold Coast, and why he felt comfortable going into Miglin's home after the murder and making a sandwich for himself.

Reached by phone, his widow Marilyn Miglin said she wasn't up for discussing any of this.

This thread - almost five years old - still is interesting.

There are so many unanswered questions about Cunanan; the Maureen Orth book "Vulgar Favors" and the Gary Indiana book "Three Month Fever" both do a good job of filling in many of the blanks, but so many questions remain:

The houseboat where Cunanan committed suicide was owned by Torsten Reineck who owned the Apollo Spa, a gay bathhouse in Las Vegas.

The Miami Beach police had been notified in the afternoon of Cunanan's suicide that there might be a connection between Reineck and Versace,

Inside the houseboat, police found .22 caliber bullets under the bed, some "white powder in a clear plastic bag," which was not tested, and a fake passport and driver's license in the name of Matthias Ruehl, the same alias that Torsten Reineck used—Matthias "Doc" Ruehl—as the operator of a gay bathhouse in Las Vegas. The passport and license were from the unrecognized principality of Sealand—a piece of rock about the size of a football field six miles off the British coast. "Sealand" was also the vanity license plate of the big Rolls-Royce Reineck drove around Miami.

In Vulgar Flavors we learn that Detective Paul Scrimshaw, the lead detective on the Versace murder, who says he dislikes conspiracy theories, speculates anyway that Andrew was on the houseboat because "he expected to be rewatded and taken to never-never land, but then he was taken as the fall guy. It's risky letting someone unprofessional do it, but if he fails, he's a nut case."

What did Versace say after being shot?

WHAT,red with this?!!

I was in 11th grade when the whole Cunanan thing went down, and I remember watching it on TV thinking I had so much in common with him. We were both gay, both obsessed with status (I've since grown out of that), and both had a thing for Vicodin. And just recently I learned that I lived only half a mile from his place in Hillcrest. Small world! We were basically twinsies. I'll keep you posted...

R184 Do you share Cunanan's passion for extremely kinky sex as a total dom and crystal meth? Have you created a fictional version of your life that you present to those closest to you as factual?

Reading that Vanity Fair article...the shallowness of his so-called friends..unbelievable. Never calling the guy on any of his bullshit? What kind of lives do these people lead?

bump

Duke lost millions of mommy's money (and the money of others) in bad real estate developments in Chicago.

Donald Trump, he isn't.

[quote]It was probably the first time they hooked up, and back then an old man probably didn't do much email that would leave a paper trail.

R109 Cunanan was 27 when he died, one month from turning 28. I know gays think that anyone pushing 30 is over-the-hill, but 27/28 is hardly 'old.'

FBI files as referenced by R180.

I still think the best casting for a bio movie would be Keanu Reeves, though he's probably too old for it now.

Also highly doubtful he'd try it, given the ambiguities continually voiced about his own proclivities.

Cunanan was torturing himself: he wasn't white, he wasn't from a wealthy background, and he was just average looking. The thought of these men living the life he wasn't capable of turned him into a psychotic murderer.

Cunanan would be a good subject for American Crime Story, ASC.

Dick pic.

I am very curious about Lee Miglin's friends up on the north shore. Who did he hang with and what were his charities?

He was only moderately handsome, not a great body, a blatant liar...what was his appeal?

He was young and thin R196. That's all it takes, until you get old and fat, which he did.

FBI report says Cunanan was (supposedly) 5 ft 9 inches and 160lbs. And 28 is hardly 'old' in the gay universe.

He was a sad pathetic guy who was unhappy with his 'lot in life' ........... did nothing to improve it except try to trade on whatever assets he thought he had and wasn't all that successful at that.

Lied constantly about his real life/situation and resented any one else who was doing better (first boyfriend who had moved on, older lovers who traded up, etc)

I heard he had the AIDS.

r199 No, the coroner's report said he was HIV negative. He murdered the caretaker from my county in NJ. His wife was so grief stricken that she literally grieved herself to death.

I ment Andrew Cunanan at Cancun

Is he still dead?

A little known fact: He was once the highest paid whore in Hollywood.

Both Dateline and 48 Hours did 20th anniversary rehashes of this case. You can watch both online.

What do the Orth and Indiana books say about Andrew's dad? He apparently embezzled tons of money from his employers and fled to the Philippines, leaving his family nothing. Was he shallow and narcissitic and status obsessed, like Andrew became? I want to know more about the dad.

I don't believe Cunanan was HIV. Which if he ducked Miglin, that surprises me.

I think he killed the doctor in Miami.

For people wondering why Madsen hung around after trail was killed, here's a quote from Orth's Vanity Fair piece:

[Quote]Trail and Madson had gone far beyond what their friends thought necessary in placating Cunanan. Is being a nice person a weakness? “Yes,” says McCrary [an FBI behavior expert], “when you’re dealing with a pathological sexually sadistic offender.” It is not by accident that Cunanan constantly seeks to put people in his debt. “They have a sixth sense of who they can manipulate and control,” McCrary says. “Their interpersonal skills are so strong, and their ability to target these victims, to understand their needs, to meet these needs and fulfill them, are so developed that in return these victims always feel obligated.”

A gripping, riveting read.

A 1997 LA Times article about Andrew's dad trying to cash in on the story, oops I mean, correct false media reports, via a documentary that will supposedly reveal Andrew was the victim of a conspiracy and wasn't gay.

The proceeds of his film will go to a church or some other Catholic nonsense.

This is a guy who embezzled 100,000k from his job, sold his home out from under his wife and kids, took all the money and fled to the Philippines.

R208 sick

bmup

What does Duke Miglin look like?

Some one up thread said the the Miglin's (?) had were devout Catholics who had a chapel in their town house. 'Ignorant' police officers at first thought they were practicing Satanism.

Does DL not realise that this has the makings of the a great conspiracy theory?

Of course it was a Satanic chapel. In fact the police officers were all devout Catholics and recognised it instantly. They were later put under severe pressure by the Bishop and Police Chief to deny this. Gasp.

Besides which, how many people do you know have a Catholic chapel in their town house? Do they have their own priest?

Clearly this whole thing is about Satanism from start to finish.

I am super intrigued by the Lee Miglin angle. There wasn’t such a work wife social media then so easier to keep things in the DL. What a gruesome way to die for Lee and very sadistic with the tape and plastic all over his face and body... and it says that they left out harsh details about his murder (genital mutilation or something of a sexual nature , most likely ) How did Andrew manage to have all of these high profile boyfriends in different places, anyhow ? A true psychopath I guess . The whole case is weird and very very unfortunate.

Wasn't there a rumor going around that Lee Miglin's gay son, Duke, had humiliated Cunanan at some swanky party in L.A. and that Cunanan was exacting revenge on Duke by murdering his father.

[quote]I still think the best casting for a bio movie would be Keanu Reeves, though he's probably too old for it now. Also highly doubtful he'd try it, given the ambiguities continually voiced about his own proclivities.

Hello, why aren't you talking about me?!?

is lee miglin's wife the old biddy Miglin who is on HSN now and then selling her cosmetics. very old lady, been hawking the stuff on there for many years....

i presume Lee had a secret gay life? its never mentioned anywhere....

or was he just in the wrong place at wrong time.

Yes r217, that's her. Lee Miglin's Wikipedia page mentions his wife Marilyn.

Keanu Reeves as Cunanan???

Terrible casting. Cunanan wouldn't have been the fucked-up rage-filled desperate wannabe he really was, if he had young Keanu's beauty.

I hope R193 is getting a producer credit.

Jeff Trail’s murder - I think he was helping Andrew move drugs in California. That’s why he moved to Minnesota, to try and get away from Andrew. He owed him money though and Andrew came to collect.

The phone message he left on Jeff’s phone that night seems folksy and not menacing at all though. So what turned?

‘‘Oh J.T., where are you? It’s… 8:20. So please give me a call when you can: [number]. Okay, bye bye. Let me know if you’re still coming, I really want to see you. Bye bye.’’

Also even though David Madson had broken up with Andrew a year prior to the murders, the month before he went to LA with Andrew and some mutual friends. There were photos of David & Andrew snuggling and that’s also where the dick pic came from. The mutual friends sold the photos to the tabloids and when they sent David’s mother an orchid plant, she returned it, dead.

Here are the Chateau Marmont photos

R51 The caretaker was married. He was killed for his truck.

According to Criminal Minds Wiki:

[quote] As Cunanan grew older, his darker sides began emerging; he had roles in pornographic movies featuring sadistic acts and started deriving pleasure from pain and humiliation.

Anyone know the source of this? The "wiki" page doesn't have it, of course. Any of you 90s S&M gay porn affecionados out there, please scan your collections for sightings of Andrew.

r14 I agree, my experience is that the Widow Miglin is a generous and kind person. She remembers her humble start in life.

I'm in the wrong thread, too.