Black Widow

Quite honestly, I never got Theresa Russell. She was never a good actress. Yet there were critics who adored her and praised her in everything she did. It's true she had nerve. And she worked in a time (late '70s-early '80s) when good parts for women were scarce onscreen (even more than now!)

I remember the first thing I saw her in was THE LAST TYCOON. And I thought her performance was the most amateurish thing I'd ever seen. Yet N.Y. Times critic Vincent Canby singled her out for praise. I was mystified by how she could have even been cast. Then I read sheslept with director Elia Kazan to get the part.

So there's your answer.

Good fun. Imagine that being made today?

Did Theresa Russell retire from acting?

I loved this movie when it came out and I was a little protodyke.

Love Theresa Russell too, but agree she is neither a great beauty nor a great actress. She is, however, a lot of fun. I think she's liked because she has crazy eyes that look like the crazy eyes a kitten has right before it pounces on something.

Sexy rather than beautiful, and - I agree - a so-so actress. Of course, she was married to director Nicolas Roeg.

Yes, still working. I see her at auditions.

[quote]And whose idea was it to cast Theresa Russell as a femme fatale? She's average looking at best.

Says you. I wore out two copies of that VHS tape and was so crazy for her all my friends teased me (and replaced my tapes).

At one time my standards for female and male beauty were Theresa Russell in "Black Widow" and Laurence Olivier in "Wuthering Heights". (I've since replaced her, but she held that spot for many years.)

Not attacking you, just saying: it's all subjective.

R2, you got your wish. It was remade with Elizabeth Berkley a couple of years ago. I think they changed the name, though.

Just looked it up r8, they kept the same title, although there's also an alternate title listed "Dark Beauty." I might've seen it on Lifetime, now that I think of it, as "Dark Beauty." It was pretty terrible and Elizabeth is ridiculous as the femme fatale. She keeps trying to insist she's a major babe despite all evidence to the contrary.

Both of those actresses pinged for me.

I thought she was pretty. Plus I loved all her costume/persona changes in that movie.

"Debra Winger is giving off a lesbo vibe."

Debra Winger always gives off that vibe.

Russell wasn't conventionally good-looking but she was "sexy." The same goes for Debra Winger; even when she was young she was "sexy", rather than beautiful. She almost didn't get hired for "An Officer and a Gentleman" because Taylor Hackford (Winger hated him) didn't think anyone would think it plausible that anybody would want to fuck her.

Theresa in 2007 looking like a younger version of Kim Cattrall. Theresa is, by the way, a year younger than Kim.

Love the kiss between the two women. Tells you who Theresa's character REALLY wanted. And they both could have lived happily ever after with all that money....

[quote]I think she's liked because she has crazy eyes that look like the crazy eyes a kitten has right before it pounces on something.

I love this theory.

The only "vibe" Winger gives off is that of a mental institution escapee.

The lesbian tension in this movie was off the hook! I loved this movie when I was younger and there were NO lesbian movies around.

"she has crazy eyes that look like the crazy eyes a kitten has right before it pounces on something"%0D %0D EXACTLY! I liked her in Black Widow - I was actually rooting for her to get away with it. Debra Winger was seriously miscast IMO: her role needed to be played by someone who projected more authority onscreen. Winger looked like she was acting in a high school production. %0D %0D

I liked this movie. I can't remember who played the male lead, but I seem to recall we got a view of his rump.

Russell is at the top of my list of terrible actresses who somehow got some respect before everyone realized how terrible she was. That being said, she is kind of perfect in this movie for some reason.

R19 I disagree. The growth of Winger's character into a more authoritative and mature adult is part of the story. She shouldn't have started out that way.

I thought Theresa Russell was a terrifically sensual actress with a sultry voice. I loved her in "Black Widow." I always wanted to see more of her and thought she was underused.

The scene where Theresa Russell freaks out in her car when she realizes someone is onto her is classic.

I thought this movie was pretty okay (bad acting aside) but the end was just unbelievably clunky. I should remember to post Black Widow in the "Good Movies With Terrible Endings" thread.

ITA R23

Theresa Russell was and is gorgeous. She's been in a few films recently, including one of the Spiderman sequels.

Russell was perfect in the trashy "Wild Things" as Denise Richards' slutty mom. Remember when she did the movie "Whore" in the late 80s? It was so controversial there were 4 versions/edits released and some papers who refused to run the ads censored the title with the words 'If you can't say it, just see it.'

Theresa & Nicholas Roeg's son Max played a gay teen in a movie called Dream Boy. Anyone seen it?

I watched this movie over and over again when I was a desperate baby dyke.

Trailer for Dream Boy. Theresa's son is the one with the longer hair:

She's a whore, darlin'.

This is one of those movies that I really enjoyed, even though it's clearly not a four-star affair. Kind of like Mortal Thoughts with Demi Moore.

I think the male rump belonged to Sami Frey, in the swimming pool scene. Who would have been 50 at the time, but looked a decade younger.

[quote]Good fun. Imagine that being made today?

Out gay man Michael Sucsy, the writer/director of Grey Gardens on HBO, and the recent director of the better-than-everyone-thought-it-would-be The Vow, has been retained to write and direct a new version of this with the gay camp factor amped up.

I bet it will be good.

DO you guys know that Theresa Russell was was for a short time considered to get an Oscar nomination for this role?

Decent Gene Siskel article.

The part where debra winger is watching the slides of theresa russell and realizing she could never have her beauty and allure is great. Seen it many times. The underlying lesbian current is something you hardly saw at all in 80s movies.

I wonder if Winger and Russell got along. It must suck when you are cast as the less attractive one in a movie.

R37 - I agree about the subtext.

WInger was offered Theresa's role, but wanted the FBI chick instead.

Thank you, R36, for the link.

You have to feel for Theresa Russell. She sounds normal and intelligent and has some standards. Siskel implies, or seems to hope, this is her breakthrough role, yet we all know how that ended up.

I am intrigued about the other kisses they filmed between her and Debra Winger.

One of those movies I have to stop and watch whenever I come across it channel surfing.

I loved her in Whore and Wild Things, and thought she was very funny.

However, they were similar roles. I can't say how much range she has, though.

OMG - was so obsessed with this film as a closeted 15 year old dyke. It perfectly captured all the unspoken tension between two women when sex, power and secrets are all in play. Also, they depended on each other. The Black Widow gave the Agent life. The Agent gave the Black Widow humanity. It was as if neither one really existed before they entered each other's lives. The inner passion and desire that this unspoken dynamic sparked in the two female characters was exactly like many (regular) people's first gay love affair. I just about exploded while watching this film and it still brings me back every time I see it.

I was an extra in this. But I didn't make the final cut. :(

Lesbian subtext deconstruction at its finest, R44. Bravo.

Damn, haven't seen a good femme fatale movie in ages...does Hollywood still make them?

Here's TR a few years later in Impulse. I am envious of her mane.

The scene in the bank vault where she's poisoning the brandy with a needle really does something for me. Something about the long red fingernails and all the clanking around. I stroke my back and get chills watching that scene.

Same with the original La Femme Nikita. The scene where she's called to play a maid in the hotel. They're setting up the tray with juice, coffee etc. Something about the whispering voices and the clanking of the cups and spoons gives me chills. Maybe I'm weird like that

Trailer

Theresa Russell talking about the role.

Glad to see TR is still working.

I've always liked her. She has a spunkiness about her personna. I especially liked her in Black Widow and Track 29, which few people liked at the time. Great, quirky film.

I've also never noticed her as a bad actress. I'll watch for it next time I watch one of her films.

She's been in some clunkers, but Theresa is not a bad actress. For some reason, DL doesn't like her.

There was some good chemistry between Debra and Theresa here.

See 53:00

Just came from the Debra Winger thread, looking for a Theresa Russell topic. So glad this thread exists!!! I think she has the IT factor which makes for a true star.

I have yet to see Whore. The combination of Ken Russell and Theresa Russell gets me all rustled up! Theresa is fabulous: the way she suggests that Moms taking their daughters to see Pretty Woman six times should take them to see Whore at least once - "because that's how it really is out there. Richard Gere won't pick you up and take you shopping." - BRILLIANT!

[quote]That being said, she is kind of perfect in this movie for some reason.

Yes, she was really good in this film. She is a bit wooden but it suited the amoral, sociopath character she was playing. She was sexy and, yes, the lesbo vibe was obvious.

Her son Maximillan Roeg (father, director Nicolas Roeg) is just as wooden an actor as Teresa is. He played a gay teen in the atrocious DREAM BOY

Good neo-noir film.

[quote]I think she's liked because she has crazy eyes that look like the crazy eyes a kitten has right before it pounces on something.

Nice one.

The kiss:

hot!

......

Hot couple, R63.

,,,,,,

.....

When I watch this film from a gay perspective, I notice all the hints that Winger's character is just not into men. Like turning down her research partner on professionalism grounds, rebuffing her boss's attentions, just one of the guys on poker night, etc.. The "kiss" was a Judas Kiss. Each character understood exactly what it meant. Notice the look on Alex's face afterward. She's furious.

.....................

Winger and Nicol Williamson's scene in the store room is fraught with angsty undercurrents. With their temperaments and as actors with notorious explosions with fellow cast members, I wonder how they got along in the film.

Pete Townsend wrote the song "Athena" for Theresa Russell. He was obsessed with her.

I had fun by watching 'Black Widow'.

I found Theresa Russell very stimulating in 'Bad Timing' and 'The Grotesque'. I liked her also in 'Kafka', a very interesting film.

I've seen Black Widow more than once and I don't remember that cast member @ R68. I'm guessing he was killed with kisses ravenous gobbling kisses instead of poison or whatever. I know one thing about that movie that has always stayed with me - is that you don't scuba with a suspect!!

Debra and Theresa were the perfect screen partnership. If they had cast Jodie Foster and Sharon Stone in those roles, I'm not sure the chemistry would have been there.... what do you think?

As may have been pointed out, her role was supposed to have been Kathleen Turner, who got pregnant. Would Teresa have made it that far if she had not been married to Nicholas Roeg?

Kathleen Turner had already played that type of character twice: in Body Heat and Prizzi's Honor.

There's a scene which always stayed with me, when Theresa says "What else have got in your desk.... Mr Shin?" - the way she says it is both seductive and threatening and it was at that point in the movie that I knew she had fucking nailed the character. Spectacular performance.

I loved how the character could change her appearance to suit her prey's personality and lifestyle. With the TX tycoon she was a typical Dallas socialite, with the college prof. she was subdued and studious and with the rich Hawaiian she was a jetsetting beach bunny.

Her transformations were miraculous r77. How she went from trashy to academic sophisticate to beach bum/hippie and all the personae were absolutely captivating. There is no doubt Debra's character fell deeply in love with her, because in a way she showed what a woman was truly capable of when she used both her sexuality and her brains.

Very good r76. "You're going to die, or you're going to die happy!" Perfect movie for a business trip to Houston.

My daughter...does NOT get raped in Blue Bay!

Such a shocking, delightful, unnerving moment in the film.

People confuse Theresa's naturalism for bad acting. Theresa Russell has no affectation, she's the personification of realness.

Yes, R91, it was like a sting.

I loved this movie when it came out. I was visiting LA and Whore was being filmed outside my hotel so I went down and got Theresa's autograph on my passport.

Awesome r84!!! I've tried to get Whore on DVD, but the only available versions from what I can see are all in foreign languages. Is there a way you could upload the movie to youtube?

R85 you can use clip converter online to download you tube videos. Just copy the url address to clip converter page.

Theresa Russell is a cult figure and rightfully so. Bad actress? No way. She's different, not like other actresses.

[R82] Her naturalism, exactly...

I did not like Scarlett Johansson in her role as Black Widow.

I never 'got' Theresa Russell. Even as a kid watching "Black Widow" in the movie theater, I thought that lady is ugly and can't act. Thirty years later I still think the lady is unattractive and can't act.

Greta Gerwig

Winger trashes most of her co-stars but have never read anything about her experience working with Russell.

r74, I would have loved it if Kathleen Turner had played the role, if only for the stories we would have gotten of her working with Debra Winger.

Didn't Turner play a whore in a movie and was being stalked by a priest? Or am I thinking of Whore?

R93

The film you are talking about is Crimes of Passion.

r94, and both films were directed by Ken Russell hence the confusion!

That's called ASMR, R49. You should Google it! Really interesting phenomenon.

Rich is hard.

Black Widow is playing on Cinemax

I love the scene by the pool at the resort when Debra asks Teresa what she's doing there and Teresa replies "Just...spending my money" in the most bored affectation ever.

Watching it now bitches

I love this film and have watched it many times. Trashy in parts, in a good way, and very stylish with many strong scenes.

I love how blase and evil Teresa Russell acts when plopping the stacks of cash out of her purse onto Mr. Shin's desk, saying, "There's two things you should know about me Mr. Shin. I'm very rich, and I'm very wealthy." Her vocal tone is perfect! Her character takes drastic twists and turns in this film and I think she does it all very well.

I thought WHORE was a really interesting film. I've liked Russell in almost anything she's been in.

I always dreamed she'd be a shoe-in to play Debbie Harry in the Blondie biopic they kept talking about making in the 90's, but she's too old for the part now.

Odd trivia about Russell: that's her voice dubbed over Daria Nicolodi's character in Argento's TENEBRE.

Theresa was gorgeous then - a natural beauty.

"She mates, and she kills. The question is... does she love? But in order to know that, you have to live in her WORLD."

1988 interview

Debra acted circles around Theresa.

Crimes of Passion was quite racy. There’s a sex scene between TR and a blond cop, she has him handcuffed to the bed and is riding him like a pony. Apropos of nothing, she shoves a nightstick up his ass! It’s very hot.

I love this movie, but the love interest at the end was very miscast. So ugly for someone whom the two leads are supposed to be fighting over.