Amanda Knox

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she bumped

The more you read about it, the more ludicrous the charges against her became. The media slandered her.

I think she was involved in the murder.

They both have crazy face.

I think she participated in it during some sort of drug addled sex thing with her boy-toy and that black stud. Why is it so hard to believe that pretty white girls can be murderers? Italy's justice system is not inferior to the USA's, despite what most Americans might think.

She was in on it. It's just as bad even if she wasn't holding the knife.

I think it was her idea. She was the only one with the balls to do it.

she did it.

She lost me at didn't flush.

IIRC, she hated the other girl because she had flirted with Knox's boyfriend or the boyfriend had paid attention to her or something like that.

The point was Knox was bitchy and jealous of her and girls being girls had her throat cut.

Amanda and her boyfriend are innocent. Period.

The boyfriend's hot.

What was on her Myspace before she deleted it?

"How To Kill A Friend" guidebook.

Well the guilt or karma is getting to the disgusting little bitch. She's losing her hair and going blind. Hahahahahaaaa.

It's a bizarre case. Well, maybe not so much bizarre as hard to know exactly what's what. You'd hate to think that Italy would railroad her just because she's American, but we all know how well the U.S. is loved around the world. Still, I have to think there's got to be the evidence. Besides, it's not as if American people don't get railroaded by the justice system in the U.S. all the time. Not that it's right.

They had an American observer from the US consulate in Italy attend the entire trial. The observer stated that they had no objections to the trial. She's lucky she wasn't committed of the crime in the US (where she could have gotten the death penalty).

committed=convicted

She was in on it. They have her foot print in Meredith's blood

This is the second page about the crime scene and the evidence. There is more on the first page

She did it, but they picked the worst possible prosecutor, and being a nice white American girl garnered her more reasonable doubt in the American press.

I couldn't have voted to convict her based on the evidence presented, but I still think she's guilty.

I think she is innocent. I think the Italians needed a conviction lest people think there is a killer running loose in Perugia. Amanda didn't ever fit the profile. And, the way the media blasted her for shopping for underwear among other things was just slander.

"And, the way the media blasted her for shopping for underwear among other things was just slander."

Of course, you'll look at a suspects behavior after a brutal murder. I think most people would be pretty shaken up after their roommate had been found brutally murdered even if they were innocent. Her behavior was pretty odd. She also accused two innocent men of the murder, let's not forget about that.

I went into the case with a heavy heart for the innocent American girl, after reading up on the case and following it closely, not only is she guilty, but she is calculating and cold, she almost pulled it off too. They would have, if they didn't make the mistake of throwing away those cellphones too early. It was actually well planned and thought out. If that woman who found the cellphones hadn't been so worked up thinking those phones were part of a terrorist attack, maybe the police would not have traced them immediately and rolled up on A&R cleaning the apt, cleaning it so that all the evidence pointed to the black man.

Of course Americans think she is innocent, all coverage I watched here was biased and made her look so innocent, are news feeds us propaganda here as well.

oops, our....

I'm not 100% convinced it was murder; there are suggestions it was a knifeplay sex game/foursome gone wrong. Then they panicked and tried to cover it up by claiming Meredith was murdered by that bar-owner guy, who wasn't even there at the time.

R24, I haven't heard anything about cell phones, what is this about?

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OP? Who the fuck are you talking about?

Are you COMPLETELY incapable of providing ANY context? Or do you always assume everyone knows exactly what you know, and can read your mind??

Asshat.

Oh man, R29, grow up. Google Amanda Knox if you've never heard of her. .

R29 Google is your friend, FUCKING LARDASS.

R29 - pick up a newspaper once in awhile instead of US Weekly.

I didn't follow the case, but saw her parents on Oprah who convinced me she is 100% innocent. They argued every single point in her defense. The deal witht he underwear - she wasn't allowed in her apartment for days after the murder and needed to buy clothes, including underwear. The media ran with it to their advantage. It was an innocent purchase.

I imagine the family has a website that will go into detail why they feel AK is innocent. Her lawyer was also convincing. And yes, I'm a skeptic, but in this case the girl appears to have been railroaded.

Parents always defend their shit children.

"Parents always defend their shit children."

Ain't that the truth! "My son/daughter would NEVER do that"!

why everybody think italian courts hold a grudge against americans? why should they?

Because Europe is full of socialists who hate America and our freedoms.

Jeez, turn on Fox News once in a while.

I always found it baffling how Knox and her boyfriend plus the third man, Guedde, could all be convicted, when the prosecution never made it clear that the first two knew or had even met the third.

And they're all supposed to be doing drugs and having group sex.

If Amanda Know were a fat ugly white girl, no one would believe she's innocent.

r38, Guedde knew the students who lived below Kercher/Knox's flat, and one of the students in that flat dated Kercher.

[quote] If Amanda Know were a fat ugly white girl, no one would believe she's innocent.

As illustrated by the Louise Woodward case.

R30, that is ludicrous. You are wrong.

Amanda Knox would have been acquitted if those American pilots hotdogging across the Italian countryside hadn't killed all those people and gotten away with it.

Link below for current news articles and discussions. If anyone takes the time to read up on the case follow up with us.

One other thing mentioned on the Oprah interview was the fact that there was a language barrier and the authorities rather forced Amanda into signing a confession. Allegedly Amanda wasn't trying to suggest the bartender was involved, but instead she was trying to communicate something else that didn't translate with her limited Italian.

>>>I didn't follow the case, but saw her parents on Oprah who convinced me she is 100% innocent. They argued every single point in her defense. The deal with the underwear - she wasn't allowed in her apartment for days after the murder and needed to buy clothes, including underwear. The media ran with it to their advantage. It was an innocent purchase.

her mom is a liar. she wasn't buying underwear, she was buying lingerie and she was caught on video tape buying it and she was making out with her boyfriend almost the whole time she was in the store. Her mom talks out of her ass and would say any fucking thing. But the tape was played at her trial and every one in the courtroom saw it.

R44, if Amanda was coerced into the statement why didn't she do any thing for 2 weeks? During that 2 weeks in jail, she could have told someone that her boss was innnocent and the police tricked her into saying he did itl

And here is the best part. After her boss was freed from jail and she was arrested, she kept writing letters to her family and friends saying that her boss Patrick was the real criminal. Copies of the letters were presented as evidence

She is a fucking liar and so are her parents

WOuld Knox have known how her roommate was found? Those crime 3d images show her in a really sad, grotesque position, on her knees, doubled over, with tons of blood around. So Knox theoretically would have known that her roommate was dead, died in that way, and then goes off and buys lingerie while smooching with her boyfriend? The least you can say about that behavior is that it's pure heartless bitchery.

Knox's parents held a comedy night as a fundraiser for her defence.

What normal parents would do something like that? First, in the knowledge that it may offend the victim's family, and, second, in the knowledge that it may offend/antagonise the Italian courts and will only serve to hinder an appeal.

Amanda had great Italian. She hated the brit for being a goody two-shoes.

r44, her Italian is almost fluent.

She's prettier and thinner than me; so I hope she goes blind, gets pinworms and loses her hair.

[quote]One other thing mentioned on the Oprah interview was the fact that there was a language barrier and the authorities rather forced Amanda into signing a confession.

Her Italian was apparently good enough to maintain a job and get herself a boyfriend who was a native speaker.

The author of the book that's coming out on the case believes Amanda is guilty. (Link to the article is on this thread; I forget at which reply).

She (the author) said something like "the American press coverage was biased. Anyone following the case carefully has come to the conclusion that Amanda is guilty."

Of course that would be anyone excluding her close friends and family--who were almost the only ones interviewed by the American press.

The Italian police and judicial system are made up of experts, obviously, but if you followed the story from this side of the pond, they all came off looking like bumbling idiots. Never mind the prosecutor who has a questionable history, rather look at them all as a unit, and you'll see that they are more than competent.

Of course she did it. Only her friends, family, and American fools believe otherwise.

I'm pretty sure she was involved just from her post-murder behavior. I mean, what would you do if you came home to a house with a wide-open door and found bloodstains? Search the house? Flee and call the cops? Or would you settle in and make a few phone calls?

It doesn't make any sense to me. A sex game? Sound like someone was reading too many lurid drugstore mystery books.

Amanda sounds like an Alpha Cunt -- in more genteel terms, a Queen Bee.

She really messed up that Brit girl, and there was no game about it.

Are there any statistic out there on how many psychopaths live among us (aside from the Wall Street guys)? I believe that a great deal of people have some psychopathic tendencies. A fraction of psychopaths do act on them. She could be one of them.

I wouldn't be surprised if Guedde is completely innocent. I can see him walking in on the murder scene after he had been in the loo for 30 minutes with his iphone on, and fleeing when the bf says they'll pin it on him.

I think she is innocent.

[quote]I wouldn't be surprised if Guedde is completely innocent

If he's so innocent, why did he run? And why did he, like Amanda, change his story?

I think I read somewhere that Amanda and the bf were only dating for a week before the murder. The bf should have run for the hills. I don't know if AK is guily or innocent but she does appear to be a pretty strange girl.

"Stand by your man" doesn't cut it. Stupid bitch should have copped a plea.

R62, what is strange about her? Really, what made you post that?

Um, R64, have you read the details of this case? Then again, maybe you are joking.

I don't think she did it. I think she knew who did it and may have tried to cover up making her an accomplice but I just don't think she murdered Kercher.

R53, the author of the book also said that "she does not know if Amanda did the crime, but she does know for a fact that she got a fair trial"

She was in jail for a few months and still wrote to all her friends and family that she was innocent and her boss Patrick was the real killer of Meredith. It is known for a fact that he is innocent.

they have Amanda's footprints (w/ meredith's blood) on top of a pillow in Meredith's bedroom that was locked and Amanda said she was never in there

big mouth American, NY attorney Joe Tacopina went to Italy to cover the trial for ABC News. He goes on all the Fox news shows about criminals. He used to go on Nancy Grace;s show, but she stopped asking him because he would never ever agree that a defendent actually did the crime. According to Joe, All murders are committed by invisible killers who blame innocent people.

At first Tacopina put down everything in Italy,the entire case and the justice system. He did loads of interviews with amanda's hideous parents and agreed with them - then he got to see the evidence and dig into the case and he didn't believe Amanda was innocent. When he started questioning the parents about the crime and the evidence and he started taking an opposite view, they froze him out and put him down and said he was lying.

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Thanks for the update, R67. I didn't read carefully (or maybe not at all) before I posted back there. Anyway, if Tacopina thinks she's guilty, well, that's pretty compelling.

What still amazes me about this case is the relentless bias on the part of the American press. Anti Italian. Pro American. Over and over again.

I am obsessed with this case. It is truly fascinating.

What R6 said.

She was charged with slander and is now sporting a new, butch haircut. Wonder if she's found a g/f?

She's a murderous psychopath. And, having been convicted, no longer must be considered "alleged".

Her LAUGHTER and "romantic" antics ON THE SCENE, when arrested, and IN COURT shows at least the psychopathology of this broad who considered herself sex on wheels.

[quote] she almost pulled it off too. They would have, if they didn't make the mistake of throwing away those cellphones too early. It was actually well planned and thought out. If that woman who found the cellphones hadn't been so worked up thinking those phones were part of a terrorist attack, maybe the police would not have traced them immediately

And don't forget the bleach. She and her boyfriend bought industrial bleach to clean up the knives in his kitchen.

Her eyes looked empty to me. I think she is guilty.

She did it. No doubt about it.

The case against her has always been weak and circumstantial. The prosecutor is a known crackpot and a convicted felon.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I believe she's guily and the sentence is correct. She's a nutjob.

Joe Tacopina is the lawyer acting for Joran van der Sloot. If he even thinks she did it, there's no hope for the girl.

The murder seemed to profile as a sexually motivated rape/murder. And the violence thrown in,smacks more of a male perp than a female with no prior history of violence.

Not defending Knox because she is female; but the pieces don't seem to fit. Knox's DNA on the roommate wasn't a smoking gun for me. They shared the same environment.

The males had no history of violence either.

she didn't do it.

She didn't do it and now someone is coming forward to say she didn't do it and that her boyfriend didn't either and they third person convicted -- African man Rudy Guedde -- he didn't do it either -- his story will check out. He had sex with Merideth. He got up to go to the bathroom and then heard screaming and when he came in the room Merideth was covered in blood and he saw a man running out the door. He held Merideth for a bit but then ran out the door because there was a warrant on Guedde already for another crime.

Anyway..Amanda Knox didn't do it.

I find it interesting that some people have such a hard time believing that psychopaths come in all shapes, sizes, genders, nationalities and educational levels.

R85, they're the reason things like this happen:

She DIDNT DO IT. There is evidence now showing that she didn't. Google it.

Knox was in her apartment, a window was broken, a huge rock in the room (presumably thrown through the window) furniture was moved, blood was everywhere and her roommates door was locked (with a key) and no one was responding from within - yet Knox and her BF did not call the police.

When police arrived (by coincidence - the cell phones) Knox and her bf LIED and said they had called the police.

Knox purchased bleach at a local store the morning after the murder but before encountering police.

The apt had been cleaned with bleach.

What killer sticks around and cleans a murder scene? Only ones that live there and might be suspects.

Neither Knox nor her BF have alibis for the night of the murder. Although they lied about their whereabouts multiple times and refuse to provide each other with an alibi.

Knox wrote a short story the year prior about a woman drugging, raping and murdering another woman and describing the pain in lurid detail.

NONE of the above is disputed by the defense. All of the above is fact acknowledged by both sides. And the list of evidence against Knox and her BF (and G) goes on and on and on. But the list above is enough for me.

Mixed feelings.

Cannot understand how Knox & Italian boyfriend can be guilty *and* R. Guedde, also guilty, when it seems clear they didn't all participate together, as a group.

The case looks stronger against Guedde, alone.

Guedde didn't know Knox Italian boyfriend; it's farfetched they'd suddenly party together.

From what I have read (and yes, it includes a translation - albeit choppy - of the 109 page judicial report explaining the decision to render all 3 parties as being guilty) the lone killer theory is exactly what did Knox and her bf in. The physical evidence suggests that Meredith was held down and then stabbed, however, there are NO defensive wounds on her. Which suggests that multiple people were pinning her down while someone else was stabbing. Also there were multiple bloody footprints of various sizes to suggest that more than one and perhaps as many as three people had been present at the murder.

[quote] She didn't do it and now someone is coming forward to say she didn't do it and that her boyfriend didn't either and they third person convicted -- African man Rudy Guedde -- he didn't do it either -- his story will check out.

The guy coming forward (Luciano Aviello) is a convicted mobster who's blaming his brother for the killing.

There's no dna whatsoever, from Knox, in the room where the murder happened.

Did you read R89's post? Very convincing. As for the DNA, has it been proven that there was no DNA from Knox? I don't think so. In fact, if I remember correctly, it was just the opposite--her DNA was all over the place, but the defense argued that it didn't matter since they were roomates. R81 mentioned the same thing.

R94, if you go to wiki you will see this -

There was no forensic evidence, such as DNA, hair, fibre, blood or skin, directly indicating that Knox had been in the bedroom where Meredith Kercher was sexually assaulted and murdered.[50] The only fingerprints of Knox which were found anywhere in the apartment were those on a glass in the kitchen sink. Knox's fingerprints were not found in Kercher's bedroom, nor her own bedroom.[51][15]

By the way, Guede's dna was found on the victim and in the bedroom.

[quote]The only fingerprints of Knox which were found anywhere in the apartment were those on a glass in the kitchen sink. Knox's fingerprints were not found in Kercher's bedroom, nor her own bedroom.

Nowhere in her own apartment? Not even in her own bedroom? That's more than a little strange.

Agreed. The fact that there were NO Knox fingerprints in the entire apartment she lived i, which had just been cleaned with bleach after a murder was committed, is further proof of Knox's guilt to me, not innocence.

Thanks for finding the Wiki article, R95. But I have to agree with the other posters--the fact that there were none of Knox's fingerprints anywhere in the apartment except on the glass is extremely odd to put it mildly.

I'm guessing that fact (if the source is correct) was picked up and used by the prosecution.

Assuming she bleached the evidence away then why is Guede's DNA still present? Is she that accurate with the bleech? Surely there would be a fingerprint, skin, hair, or something. These are the question Henry Fonda would ask if this were "12 Angry Men".

If Luciano Aviello's story checks out she will be set free.

Who is Luciano Aviello and what does he or she have to say?

What R102 said.

R101, do you have a link? Please.

I try to cut and paste the link but it won't let me. Just google it.

I think she had something to do with it.

When you take drugs, there are those that see you as guilty, or at least believe that you don't remember all of your actions. It also can put you in contact with very unsavory people.

Was it a Mob hit?

The trial started without her.

[all posts by tedious troll removed.]

She and her bf blamed "the black guy did it"

A black guy did do it. Where's your hate for him?

She's guilty.

It's disgusting that naive and gullible American outrage got this cold-blooded fucking murderer set free.

Amanda Knox has an excruciatingly painful appointment with Karma in her future. Looking forward to it.

I'm betting her mother knows.

She declared her 'innocence' by email today.

Verdict expected in the retrial of Knox and Solecito any minute. Footage of Solecito on BBC news walking into court this week, chewing gum, wearing aviator shades. Him= pathological narcissist. Her= psychopath.

Sollecito, missed an L

LIVE CAMERA IN THE ITALIAN COURT ROOM:

THE BITCH IS GUILTY!!!!

HOLY. SHIT! Found guilty. Again!

Both are guilty. Sollecito's passport is being seized. The court want Knox extradited. Knox has a 20 year sentence.

Wow! Who was that hot (Italian?) stud with Merdith's parents in that live feed? Their attorney?

Amanda. You in danger, gurl!

Meredith's brother and sister are behaving with great dignity in court.

We should send them Justin Bieber.

Pasta export ban in place till Knox is in Italian custody.

No more pasta mixed *with* the sauce until Amanda is pardoned!

28 years for Knox. 25 for Sollecito. My money says he does a deal to get a reduced sentence, confesses Knox killed Meredith with Guede and he was accomplice

Poor Sollecito. He's gorgeous! Someone's going to enjoy some good prime ass for sure!

I'm going to Olive Garden tonight to celebrate.

I just watched this video and she is cold, cold, cold:

Sorry, correct link:

Amanda has cold, dead, shark eyes. She gives me the creeps! We should send her and let her do her time!

Questo non è giusto. Raffaele è bellissimo. Egli sarà violentato nell'ano!

Sollecito looked so much hotter two years ago! What happened to him?

I wonder if she will get extradited

R134,

Man, I haven't seen "egli" used since the ottocento!

Sorry, I don't get a sociopathic vibe from her at all. And I watch a ton of true crime shows. I've read enough about this case (mostly from the UK press, before anyone says I'm biased reading US sources) to know she's being railroaded.

Mamma mia, R136! Quanti anni hai?

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Wow... I just watched that interview posted by R132. I'm blown away. THAT is a sociopath talking.

I'm getting a 404 error from r132's link.

R137 - what exactly is a sociopath vibe?

Does it take one to know one?

This should work. Worth watching. Chilling stuff.

Is this the Knox link?

[quote]I'm getting a 404 error from [R132]'s link.

If this doesn't work, then use the link above and scroll down to the video. She is chilling.

I always wondered if they were doing something else during their "home smoking pot" alibi that they wouldn't want to admit to. Admittedly, I can't think of anything that would be less preferable than being convicted for murder, but neither Amanda nor Raffaele (and I've listened to his interviews in both languages) sound credible to me.

R146... you've listened to Sollecito and you think he sounds credible? Do you speak Italian fluently?

He DOES indeed sound like a druggy...someone spaced out enough to turn up at his police interview with a knife in his pocket (as he actually did).

Knox? Well, watch that Guardian interview or her interview with Diane Sawyer or Chris Cuomo.

Ooooops sorry R146: I was rushing when I read your post.

I did not read correctly "neither Amanda nor Raffaele...(...)...sound credible to me".

Agreed.

I only speak Italian flatulently, and I can definitely tell you something doesn't smell right.

I like this quote from her attorney:

[quote]"It is not possible to convict a person because it is probable that she is guilty," Dalla Vedova said. "The penal code does not foresee probability. It foresees certainty."

He basically admits Knox probably killed Kercher.

She managed to remove every drop of her DNA from the scene? for the people who say she is guilty tell me just one reason why.

R147, yes, I speak standard Italian fluently.

in the guardian video Amanda is CRADLING THE MUG! GUILTY!!!

I don't get the "cold" and "sociopath" and "chilling" vibe at all from that video.

She comes across as scared to me. Articulate, highly intelligent, guarded, and scared.

she is being railroaded

Here's a good website with DNA evidence, photos, luminol analysis, etc.

I agree with r154's assessment. Although I would add super-dykey to the list.

So not guilty from the evidence presented.

She could have spared Sollecito all of this by marrying him and keeping him in the states, but she had NO INTENTION of doing anything like that even after he came to Seattle to see her.

That's not a good website. It's a sit made by guilter fanatics to trick people to think it's a branch of Wikipedia. Try this instead which has factual material -

Show me a 20something who turns off their mobile phone and I'll show you a 20something who is up to no good.

I don't get the sociopath thing either. She seems very guarded and scared, but keeping herself together. She looks terrible, like the way a person looks who has lived in stress for a long time. This has taken a toll on her physically.

R150, you are not used to "lawyer-speak." His statement is not artful, but he is not admitting that she is guilty.

[quote] Feces are unlikely to yield testable DNA,

This was posted on one of the sites. How strange...

They basically convicted her with a brand new motive - that a fight broke out over Guede not flushing the toilet. Ask yourself why Sollecito showed up with a large kitchen knife to begin with. Did he plan on doing some cooking and then pulled it out when the fighting started? The Italians have made this idiocy up as they have went along, bringing us back to an age when witch hunting was legal.

In this retrial they provided no DNA, no new witnesses and changed motives. They also ignored every independently appointed expert who testified in the first re-trial. They basically ignored everything, but the prosecutors hand picked expert from the first trial.

If she really thought Sollecito was innocent and she wanted to protect an innocent man, she should have married him. I'm sorry, but there is something "off" about this whole business. She already knew he was in danger of going to prison for the rest of his life. But it looks like she didn't lift a finger to help him.

Knox explains the hell she has been through -

Still smoke weed? Still a freak?

R165 "Ask yourself why Sollecito showed up with a large kitchen knife to begin with. Did he plan on doing some cooking and then pulled it out when the fighting started?"

You mean knife collector Raffaele Sollecito? The guy who was so stoned he showed up at the police station for his interview with a switch-blade in his pocket? THAT Raffaele Sollecito?

Get over it R165: they're guilty.

Knox told the Guardian this week that she had been in touch with Sollecito during the trial, but she denied that he had asked her to marry him in order to gain US citizenship and escape imprisonment, as had been reported in some newspapers. "It is not true. I don't know where that came from."

Knox said she was relatively fortunate in that she had been able to return to America, and that she was worried for Sollecito. "He's really scared. And really vulnerable. I think he feels abandoned by his own country. Where's he going to run and hide? It's a shame that more people aren't fighting to protect him."

Asked how she would feel if he was imprisoned while she remained free, she said: "That would drive me crazy. I don't know what I could do, but I'd do it. There would be action. And there would be an outcry."

She said the whole experience had irreparably damaged her. "I am a marked person, and no one who's unmarked is going to understand that. It's very intimidating. I don't even know what my place is anymore. What's my role in society? Who am I, after everybody has branded me?"

Of course you completely ignored my question R169. If he showed up with a large knife another one it means they planned this, yet the attorney argues it happened spontaneously from drug use.

She should have asked him then if he was too proud. But no, she was not interested in protecting her innocent friend.

Agree with R154, R157 and R162 that she doesn't seem psychopathic to me. She's been through a lot. This is just a sad case for all involved.

Ask yourself why Sollecito showed up with a large kitchen knife to begin with

OK.

I answered myself " because he and Knox planned to terrorise/ sexually assault/ kill Meredith Kercher with it".

Clearly she is trying to show emotion in the video "I was a kid..I wanted my Mom." Clearly a performance, although to be fair, she's heard so often that she doesn't show emotion that it would be surprising if she didn't make an effort to SEEM emotional, however slight and unnatural it looks.

Such grandiosity - all other "exonorees" are left alone if ridiculous.

Rudy Guede did it. I swear, this girl was only put on trial because she was female, American, and wasn't a virgin. Italy is a shithole. They're justice system is backwards. 'Guilty until proven innocent' is still procedure like much of Europe. Italy is run by the mob.

Documentary: Amanda Speaks

If Knox is innocent, she's still the person who tried to pin the murder on an innocent man, who had given her a job; she is still the person who had a photo of herself pretending to fire an assault weapon online, pouted and giggled and flirted during the trial and wrote rape fantasies from the perspective of the perpetrator.

She's obviously not who she pretends to be since the crime.

Rudy Gerde had a history of pulling knives on people, not to mention burglary. His DNA was found all over the fucking place. Amanda's was not. He also fled the scene. Jesus Christ, this isn't rocket science.

The prosecutor said that she worshiped the devil - you know, because she's a woman who engages in premarital sex. They were screaming at her for days on end without an attorney present. People who think she's guilty are either: ignorant, xenophobic, misogynistic, and/or want her taken away because she's white - you know, because pretty white girls get off easy all the time, who cares if she's innocent.

It reminds me of the OJ trial - OJ's probably guilty, but because so many innocent black men are put into prison, letting one guilty one go free is adequate payback.

Sure, there are many pretty girls who happen to be white who get away with murder, but Amanda, who is innocent, shouldn't be sent up the river to pay for their sins.

For anyone who's been watching the goings on with the Italian government should think twice about setting foot in that country.

Italian justice is backwards? Please. Italy won't send her to death row as some States in her own fucking country would do.

Send that bitch to India!

R181,

No, they don't. In Italy, they hire a mob hitman to settle their problems.

Because that's more civilized.

[quote]If Knox is innocent, she's still the person who tried to pin the murder on an innocent man

Honey, she gave the name after hours of being interrogated. Do your homework about what happened, and what they did to her. What she did is akin to people who confess to crimes they didn't commit just so the shouting ends. This went on for days.

[quote]Italian justice is backwards? Please. Italy won't send her to death row as some States in her own fucking country would do.

It's next to impossible to get a fair trial in Italy, dirtbag. The US may have the death penalty, but it is light years better than Italy's mock trials.

Knox did not get a "mock trial". The US consulate had an observer present who stated she was given a fair trial. And no mob hitmen will be sent after her. And she kept up the entirely false accusations against the bar owner for as long as she could.

R180, how is letting a guilty person go free "adequate payback" for persons wrongfully convicted? I'm not speaking of any particular case but an stunned by your general statement. Do you think any wrongfully convicted black man felt better when OJ was found not guilty? I try not to pick arguments here, but that comment is absurd.

I wonder if the US will extradite her? If US watchers determine that her second trial is fair, I can't see any legal impediment to extradition. I think if is more likely that the US will negotiate some sort of plea for time served.

Anyone is capable---anything is possible Some lie---some tell the truth Will we ever really know?

Italians convicted some scientists for not warning them of an impending earthquake where people died because they weren't evacuated. Gives you an idea of their general level of intelligence.

R182 bout did me in.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047234/Amanda-Knox-fantastic-actress-says-Patrick-Lumumba-accused-murder.html

Sounds like the mayor of Atlanta. He tried to blame weather forecasters for the mess he created in Atlanta during the ice storm. He should have watched the Weather Channel.

I love Italy, drive over the border to it regularly - but dear god, please do not let me get on the wrong side of the law there.

If the Italians interrogated me for hours and hours in their unorganized, inefficient ways I would surely say just about anything to save my skin.

I believe she's innocent but her life is ruined. Sure the USA won't send her back but she'll never be able to travel internationally. Interpol would pick her up and send her off to Italy subito.

Should we all trot out our pet theories now?

I find it absolutely impossible to believe that Knox and Sollecito didn't know anything about the murder. I'm leaning toward Sollecito somehow being involved.

i wonder if amanda will be going to italy to jail.

Any word from Amanda yet?

Chris Cuomo grilling her on whether or not she's still a freak makes me hard...

She's already said numerous times that if convicted, she will be a fugitive. I don't blame her. I'm sure she's networked and has an escape / new (hidden) identity plan in place already.

Good for her.

I can't bring myself to read through this thread, but do you bitches really think she didn't do it? She seems like the O.J.iest killer since O.J.

It appears from evidence she is innocent but her behavior was very strange.

This poor innocent boy with the face of an angel and the body of a god is going to be passed around like a bowl of pasta in an Italian farmhouse. They're going to ravage his poor hole! Injustice!!!

I don't think she did it, but I think she was involved in a conspiracy to cover it up.

The thing about her drying her body after a shower with a blood stained towel was pretty revolting.

They convicted her.

Accidently posted. They convicted her, does that mean they still have to retry him

What part of THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE don't you bitches understand? Do you all live in Alabama?

She was railroaded in Italy for being a young, cute American girl. THE END, stupid.

THREAD CLOSED.

Americans stay out of Italy.

R206,

This is a discussion forum. We will discuss as long as we wish, thanks.

THREAD OPEN

I go to Italy nearly every year, lived there for two.

It's grand.

I'm still not sure if she did it, but there seems to be something wrong with her.

Whenever she's crying, it seems very fake and put on.

I don't know what to believe. That being said, the evidence seems to be weak.

Momma let me buy reward Italy by buying some Italian shoes, gucci, prada, ferrgagamo here I come!

She's an oddball who got mixed up with the wrong crowd: drinking, drugging, promiscuity with a bunch of nuts. Somehow, I doubt she was guilty of the murder, but who knows what really happened? I'm guessing it was just a robbery gone wrong by that Guede guy. The Italian authorities seem incompetent (although maybe no worse than any other police force).

One thing that I find interesting is that left-of-center Americans are always saying how wonderfully enlightened European countries are and that we should emulate them, such as their health care system. Then, some of them turn around like on this website and say what a lousy country Italy is. And France is supposed to be so sexually free. Yet look at the scandal with President Hollande and his mistresses. Personally I don't think Europe is so wonderful or something the US should emulate. Sorry to get bit off the topic.

Sorry, Bobbie, I'd take universal health care and a French sex scandal over Georgia any day.

Yeah, I agree with R215, there are no perfect countries, but most in Europe are far ahead of anything in the U.S.

Bobbie, no country is perfect. But, all in all, certain European countries have fairer laws, better social services, and are just nicer places to live than America at this point in history.

Bobbie, in the fine tradition of Republitards everywhere, you disprove your own argument.

I agree with the very sensible comments at R215 and R216.

One thing that always bothered me about Amanda... I saw a short clip that was linked from a website or blog a few years ago, unfortunately I can't find it now, I want to be sure I was hearing correctly. The clip was of a recording of Amanda talking with her mother in a little room at the police station shortly after her mother arrived in Italy. Apparently Amanda had called her mom and held a brief conversation with her the night of Meredith's murder... during the conversation Amanda had eluded to something bad happening. BUT... the time that Amanda had called her was BEFORE she allegedly knew about Meredith's death. Her mom was even questioning her about some of the comments she made, but Amanda just kept saying she didn't remember, didn't know why she said the things she said. It was very strange. Damn I wish I could find that clip! It always made me believe that Amanda at the very least knew more than she was saying. If anyone knows where to find this clip please post here.

R219, that's bullshit. If you had familiarized yourself with the timeline you'd know her mom was on an international flight that night.

R219,

the transcript of the call is here, under "Pre-dawn call to mom."

Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are completely innocent and the Italian criminal justice system is notoriously shit.

This verdict is an absolute fucking travesty.

I eat shit.

R221, I hope you realise you're linking to a hate site. In any case, it says the text isn't available. And how would they have the transcript of a private phone call, anyway?

Actually, r233, r206 is absolutely right.

I know I'm right.

She's exactly as I described her, but the flip side to that is she was incredibly naïve and even goofy/immature at the time and it came across poorly.

She didn't know Meredith K. enough to have bonded with her in the sense that she'd be HORRIBLY distraught or some shit, as people so desperately needed her to be.

I do think she is a sociopath, but I do not think she is a murderer.

R220 I think you are confused, it most certainly DID happen.

@ R221 yes that's it, transcribed, thanks!!! There is also videotape of this conversation between Amanda and her mother out there somewhere, I am going to keep looking.

This was the link.

To R224, I wouldn't characterize it as a "hate" site, though you might disagree with its argument.

Anyway, I was more interested in the photos in the gallery of the luminol footprints, the bloody towels, the foot prints, etc, than in their arguments. I wanted to see how the real police, as opposed to TV cops, process a scene.

I did read the opposing website, written by a retired FBI officer, and thought it made some salient points as well.

ALL speculation, R229. That couldn't hold up in a U.S. court.

R229, the people who "processed" that scene aren't real police, they're a fucking joke and the "evidence" they gathered is farcical and would be thrown out of any real court.

R227 is right insofar as she's a sociopath. Very typical one. But I do think she did it. A game, for fun. They're like that.

Look at any picture of Amanda K. the cold, dead stare - sociopath.

So the white dude is going to prison since he's in italy right? Is the USA going to make an exception for Kirchner? Do we usually not hand over people convicted of murder in other countries?

The Knox trolls are out in full force.

This trial has been closely followed and monitored by the US State Department in Rome. There have been no irregularities.

And Americans preaching about Italy's justice system is especially rich.

I don't think Knox did it, but I can understand why people think she played a part, just based on how she acts. She's a kind of a weirdo, very flat, emotionless, and when she gets emotional it comes off very false, as if a performance.

Poor Amanda and Raffaele. Italian justice is totally FUCKED. It rather makes one despair.

The Only piece of evidence that I need to convince me of their innocence: that the Italian police had systematically destroyed the THREE (!) hard drives of computers belonging to Amanda (1) and Raffaele (2). If that's not destroying evidence I don't know what is.

[quote] Anyway, I was more interested in the photos in the gallery of the luminol footprints, the bloody towels, the foot prints, etc

Did you see a picture of the footprints? It wasn't like they were on a hardwood floor and you could really match them up. They were on a shag rug and there was only about a quarter of the entire foot. You could take my footprints and match them up to what was on this shag rug

go to the link and click the picture. It's only a partial footprint (the ball of the foot) and who ever's foot it is wasn't stepping flat on the ground or their 4 other toes would have shown up. It really can't be matched up to anyone.

There is not sufficient evidence to prove that Amanda and her boyfriend killed Kercher. In the US, you come up with a guilty verdict if you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that someone committed a crime. There is nothing here to show that she did this "beyond a reasonable doubt." The doubts here are all "unreasonable."

She should not be convicted. If you were in this situation, or someone you loved were, you would not be crowing for a guilty verdict--that's the kind of thing that happened in the Middle Ages, when execution was a form of sport and a spectacle.

The conviction now is based on an emotional feeling--not on evidence. It is disturbing. And, yes, Amanda's life is ruined. It's unclear how she should conduct herself now and what she should do. Horrible thing to happen to a young person. Changes the trajectory of her life entirely and makes it difficult for her to do anything constructive or positive and very difficult to form new and trusting relationships with people. I feel for her, and for her parents. And obviously, feel even worse for her ex-boyfriend.

R235, I'm European and this verdict shames me. It is well known even in Italy that the country's criminal justice system is a mess.

As r238 points out, one of the very many irregularities is that the police destroyed the three hard drives and so whatever evidence they had has gone forever. This despite the fact that Raffaele's computer was supposed to prove that he and Amanda were not in his house and using his computer at the time Meredith was being killed. This can never now be checked.

The DNA collection and processing was a farce that has been condemned by many DNA experts. The person who did the processing for the first trial that convicted them is a lab technician. The people who reprocessed the DNA for the first appeal, which acquitted and released them, are two of Italy's leading DNA experts. They eviscerated the DNA "evidence" presented at the first trial and concluded from their testing that Knox and Sollecito had nothing to do with Meredith's murder. It was solely the work of Rudy Guede.

The only new examination of the evidence permitted by this second appellate court that just convicted them again was DNA testing on the knife that police pulled out of Raffaele's drawer and said was the murder weapon. It was found not to have any traces of Meredith's DNA on it, so how they can claim it was the murder weapon is anyone's guess.

There are dozens of other examples such as this, ranging from the changing motives the prosecution gives (did you know that their latest motive is that Meredith and Amanda argued over Rudy Guede's poop in the toilet?), to their unreliable "witnesses" and the general corruption of the chief prosecutor Mignini. The prosecutors and judges of Italy have no qualms about closing ranks to protect their own.

This farcical trial should send chills down the spines of all of us, for its arbitrary abuse of state power in a supposedly western society.

Hey r240, nice to see didn't forget to extend some of that hand-wringing sympathy for the Kercher family and the actual murder victim...

Oh.

Why did Raffaele initially have a different alibi from Amanda?

Why did Amanda name Patrick Lumumba?

There's a book you need to read. The Monster of Florence. For years I was puzzled about the Amnda Knox mess. This book isn't about her. This book is about a serial killer in Tuscany. But it shines a light on the corrupt, petty, pathetically comic, third world nature of the travesty that passes for a criminal justice system in Italy. It also makes me not ever want to go there. It was written by Douglas Preston, who's a reputable writer, and an Italian investigative journalist. Their gindings so infuriated the "prosecutors" that at one point the Italian journalist and Preston were both charged with the crimes!

The Rudy guy is the main killer, that is obvious. The question is, were these two somehow involved. I do not think there is evidence to show it.

She acts weird, but if you have been to the Pacific Northwest you would know there are all sorts of people with flat unemotional personalities.

I'm curious, though likely won't be privy to, what her plan as a fugitive will be.

R243, Raffaele did NOT initially or ever have a different alibi from Amanda. That is a lie. He said they were at home, watched a movie on his computer, and he was online for a bit. The prosecution said that his computer showed no activity after 9pm. Unforunately, however, the prosecution also physically destroyed his computer hard drive by "accident" as they were "investigating" it. So, that prosecution claim cannot be corroborated.

Amanda Knox did not name Patrick Lumumba. His name was told to her by the police/prosecutors, who had grabbed her mobile phone and read the text messages on it, despite the fact she was not an official suspect at the time and they had no right to do that. One message was to Lumumba and said something like "see you later". The police/prosecution decided this was evidence of Lumumba and Knox planning to meet up later to kill Meredith. They had Amanda, 20-years-old and with little Italian at the time, locked up in an interrogation room for several hours overnight, with no translator for most of the time and no lawyer, no food and I think no water and with no right to make any phone calls. This inerview/interrogation was also not recorded. They lied and told her that Raffaele said that they weren't together all night (which he NEVER said). They harassed and denigrated her, and kept insisting that Lumumba must have done it, and could she at least try and imagine how he may have done it. For a split second in all that she said, yes, it's possible, and almost immediately retracted that. Let's not forget that at the time all she knew was that her roommate had been brutally kiled.

The police, having secured this "confession", then picked up Lumumba, with no evidence and not even attempting to see if he had an alibi, held him and beat him up for two weeks, even though he was the wrong guy. Why don't you complain about police behaviour there?

Just to illustrate how twisted the Italian system is, her supposed claim that Lumumba did it and that she had conspired with him was not permitted to be used as evidence in the trial against her as it was regarded as unreliable and inadmissible. It was, however, accepted as admissible when Lumumba took her to court for slander. Can't the Italian courts make up their minds whether it's admissible or not?

I agree, r244, The Monster of Florence is an excellent book and required reading for anyone who wants to have an opinion on the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito prosecutions. One of the prosecutors who harrassed Preston and his co-author Mario Spezi was Giuliano Mignini, the same prosecutor who has been persecuting Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox. Mignini came up with the same satanic ring theory for the Monster of Florence murders as he did not the murder of Meredith Kercher. It's his MO.

R242, that Meredith Kercher was brutally killed should not provide the excuse for the persecution and false imprisonment of two completely innocent people. For justice to be truly served the true killer must be found and imprisoned. In fact, he already has been. This is Rudy Guede. Because Rudy helped the police trap Knox and Sollecito, however, he has been given a reduced sentence of 16 years which may be halved with good behaviour and in the next few months he will even be under consideration for day release. Do you think that is justice served for Meredith?

The cases of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito now go beyond the Meredith Kercher case. They are about a corrupt prosecution system and the threat to all citizens posed by arbitrary state power, even in supposedly democratic countries.

For true justice to be found for Meredith Kercher and for her name to be rememebered, the Italian prosecutors should be cocentrating on her true killer, Rudy Guede, and not victimising two completely innocent people.

R240. Amanda's life is ruined? How about the poor girl that's dead.

That little minx is guilty as hell. She was on GMA this morning and didn't even mention the victim. At least OJ was looking for the real killers on the golf course!

It may have taken a while, but O.J. finally got his. What goes around comes around.

R249, it's terrible that Meredith Kercher has been murdered. This is why true justice should be served and her actual murdered, Rudy Guede, be the one publicly condemned for his brtual acts. Two innocent people should not have their lives ruined by a dysfunctional criminal justice system. That is not justice for Meredith.

Why do you find it so difficult to comprehend that? Are you saying that because Meredith Kercher was murdered innocent people should be imprisoned for it?

R250, Amanda Knox is the victim - the victim of a miscarriage of justice. On the basis of what have you decided she's "guilty as hell"? Surely not the "evidence", because there isn't any. What's your opinion of the possible release of Rudy Guede after only a few years?

Sollecito initially told the police he and Amanda were NOT together between 9pm the night of the murder and 1 am the next morning.

He then said his parents pressured him into saying that, and changed his story to give Knox her alibi.

Why would he implicate her initially if she was in fact with him all night?

And any online activity from Sollecito's computer could likely be verified by data on the servers of the sites he claims he visited. That data would not be logged exclusively in his hard drive.

Are we meant to believe he was "too stoned" to remember what sites he visited despite the fact that proof of activity from his ISP would give him an alibi?

Someone please explain to me why she was doing cartwheels at the murder site (outside, of course). Her behavior is so off the wall, she's a natural for a suspect. Anyone who saw her interviewed last year by Diane Sawyer knows she's a sociopath.

That being said, I haven't read enough of the evidence and testimony presented to make a fair judgment. Just because she might be a nut job and sociopath doesn't mean she is a murderer.

She's a very odd girl, but I don't believe Raffaele had anything to do with the murder. Yet he'll be going to jail for longer than the guy who no one disputes did the actual killing?

[quote]Yet he'll be going to jail for longer than the guy who no one disputes did the actual killing?

Yeah. That is the real crazy part. They have no evidence for these two, yet they get LONGER sentences?

Well Guede's 30 year sentence was cut to 16 for his cooperation with prosecutors. Sollecito will be looking to cut a deal too now after Knox refused to marry him last March; he wanted US residency so he could fight extradition and avoid jail.

He'll start talking soon.

I think he was either home alone, and Knox was with Guede in the house, and Knox convinced him she wasn't involved and that they needed to provide each other with an alibi, or they were both there.

R257 I'd have no trouble believing she was involved, but I just don't think it's physically possible for her to have removed all traces of her DNA in Meredith's room but not Guede's. It's just not possible.

The girl comes off creepy and not normal, but there's nothing to indicate she was actually there. She won't go to jail though, I doubt the US will extradite her. But Raffaele will and that seems wrong.

Put it this way. Money talks. 'Nuff said.

R258, if she was a witness or accomplice to Guede she wouldn't necessarily have left DNA in the room. Guede undoubtedly killed Meredith. I think Knox incited, assisted, was in some way a participant. The fact that she has never apologised to her friend Lumumba for falsely accusing him of being in the house, having sex with and murdering Meredith is not the behaviour of a sane trustworthy person.

Also she asks for donations to the Meredith Kercher Foundation on her own website, DESPITE Meredith's family saying publically that they do not want her doing that and that the association of their daughter and sister's name with Knox causes them distress.

Why does she do something she is aware distresses the Kercher family? Why doesn't she respect their wishes?

For all these morons going on about her buying underwear right after the murder- she was not allowed back into the crime scene by the authorities and so had no clothes or underwear. She had to buy some. Maybe she should have continued to wear her stinky underpants for days so as not to arouse suspicion, because that's what an innocent person would do.

A confession is coming. Raffaelle will not sit in jail while Amanda galavants around the states selling books of her own version of the events. Raffaelle has a girlfriend now, and she just won't stand for it. Your alibi is about to be blown, Amanda.

R252 I never said anything of the sort. Innocent or guilty the fact that a girl has been murdered seems to be getting lost in the whole sorry story. It just leaves a bad taste in the mouth that Amanda Knox is now being seen at the 'victim' in all of this.

Yes, there are serious questions to be asked about the legitimacy of the case as the whole thing stinks to high heaven. If I was Amanda I'd be taking a serious look at her legal team. If the evidence is as shitty as it is how on earth didn't they overturn the conviction? Doesn't say much about them in my opinion.

Bobbie should be banned.

I see he's been picked up at the border with Austria.

The Kercher family's lawyer told Knox to remove links to the Kercher's memorial site from her own site. Does she respectfully comply? No. She posts this:

The Kercher family’s civil attorney, Francesco Maresca, in his closing arguments yesterday, claimed I have been collecting unspecified funds in the name of Meredith and her family. He implied that I was deceiving the public and collecting those funds for myself.

Please visit the Meredith Kercher Murder page and scroll down to the Donation section to discover that I have simply added a link to the Kercher family’s own website where they solicit donations for their ongoing struggle through this heartbreaking legal process.

I have been solicited by Mr. Maresca to remove from my site anything I have done to honor her memory or show support to her family. My response was that no one but the Kercher family has any right to make such a request. As I await direct contact from the family of my murdered friend, I will continue to honor her and show support.

Thank you for your support.

...the narcissism of Knox is breathtaking.

R260 so you think she stood outside the room, watched him murder her roommate and was cheering from the sidelines? It doesn't make any sense. And why would her boyfriend be involved at all?

I have no idea about why she would keep the donation thing on her website. From the interviews I've seen, she seems totally different now from how she did before she went to Italy. But I also think this experience maybe made her crazy.

She keeps the Kercher links on her website because their distress is of no concern to her.

She has no empathy.

R261 the woman who served Knox gave evidence that she purchased a red lacy thong, and that Sollecito who Knox had been making out with whilst in the store said he was going to take her home to have "wild sex".

It's not that she bought new underwear. It's the inappropriateness of their exhibitionism and their self absorption that makes reasonable people doubt they were as upset by the murder as they claimed to be.

"1-DNA from Knox was found on the handle of the knife that killed the victim matched Knox – and DNA on the blade matched the victim. The knife was found at Sollecito’s home and though the defense claimed the sample of Knox’s DNA was too small to matter, they had no explanation for how DNA from the victim just happened to land on the blade of ANY knife, or why the blade had been scrubbed clean with bleach.

More damning was the statement Sollecito gave police when confronted with the discovery of the victim’s DNA on the blade. He said the victim’s blood got on the knife during a group dinner his apartment and that Meredith cut herself during food preparation. Prosecutors pointed out that the DNA they found hadn’t been identified as blood, and could have been skin cells, which made the claim about Kercher cutting herself very revealing of Sollecito’s state of mind regarding the KIND of DNA that cops found on the knife. Moreover, prosecutors proved that Meredith had never even been to Sollecito’s apartment for any purpose, much less to prepare dinner. (She had been in Italy for only a couple of weeks at the time of the murder).

2-Knox’s DNA was found mixed with the victim’s blood in five different spots at different places around the apartment where the murder took place. Although the defense claimed this was no big deal because they both lived in the apartment, the mixtures were found in several different locations where, according to Knox, there had been NO blood from anyone prior to the night in question. This means Knox’s DNA had to have become mixed with Kercher’s blood during the murder.

This was such powerful evidence at trial, the only thing the defense could say was that the cops contaminated the samples, but there was no evidence of such contamination – and even if contamination were theoretically possible, you could only make such a claim with a straight face for ONE drop of blood – not five samples taken from five different locations.

3-Knox changed her story several times, first saying she wasn’t even at her apartment the night of the murder. Then she told police she WAS present – and could hear the victim screaming – but couldn’t recall the details because she was under the influence of drugs. At the time of trial – she changed her story again and said she was at her boyfriend’s apartment at the time of the murder – but phone and computer records – as well as her boyfriend’s own statements – proved that her alibi was a lie.

4-In one of her statements, Knox relayed such specific details about the crime, it revealed her involvement because only someone who was really there would know information such as the room where the murder took place.

As painful as it is to look at the face of the girl-next-door and see a killer – the choice is simple. Either see the truth and accept it – or look away, and shut up."

Actual link

Amanda will be fighting the convction therefore she will not have to return to Italy until the entire process is completed.

It's been mentioned that since the US does not have double jeopardy that she may try to use that as a way for the US to deny extradition.

But R270 Italy's top DNA experts agreed Meredith's blood wasn't on the knife? And Sollecito was asked "HOW could her blood get on your knife?" and after being interrogated for so long and told her blood was on the knife, he came up with a possible way.

And it does sound reasonable to me that tiny traces of their blood could be found in their apartment. It doesn't make any sense, no matter what anyone says, that Knox's DNA wasn't found anywhere in the room where the murder took place. It just doesn't fit. I could believe easily that Knox murdered someone. She actually looks crazy and seems kind of evil. But this doesn't make any sense. And it makes less sense that her boyfriend would be involved. Especially since we know who did the actual killing and there's no motive for all of them to kill this girl together.

I saw a video years ago of police interrogations and how they can get people to say crazy things. The police were interrogating a young boy, about 13, whose sister had been murdered. At the end of a 12 hour session, he confessed and implicated another person in helping him. A few weeks later they found DNA evidence of a convicted sex offender who had raped and killed the girl. The brother (and the person he named as his accomplice) had nothing to do with it.

I don't feel that bad for Knox because of the way she's reacted, she just seems like a cold person. But I feel bad for the boyfriend.

There is no evidence against her. The amount of stuff that SHOULD be there and isn't (that you can't dispose of) is massive. Italy is just riding on public opinion and emotion. It's a witch hunt. It wouldn't get past a grand jury in the US I don't think, and grand jury's don't have that high a threshold.

The Kercher's lawyer finally got through to Knox; she posted this in mid Dec:

I have to accept that the Kerchers believe I’m guilty and my attempts to honor her memory can cause them pain. I do not wish to antagonize their grief, even with my best intentions.

It is with a broken heart that I acquiesce with the Kercher family’s attorney’s request to remove from my site the link to the Kercher family’s fund raising page and the page I have dedicated in memory of my friend, Meredith.

R254, she WAS NOT doing cartwheels. That is just more of the bullshit that's spouted out as though it's "true', but is simply garbage. Like the crap about what she supposedly said when she bought underwear.

There is still so much bullshit that has been disproved over and over again (such as the crap posted at r270) being spread around.

If Amanda and Rafael were involved in the murder, would not the guy who actually did it and is in jail for it, Rudy G., have cut a deal by now for a reduced sentence and told the prosecutors what actually happened?

No R276, Amanda herself admitted that while she was waiting to be interviewed at the police station, she became bored and decided to do yoga and other exercises, including splits and I believe a cartwheel. She said this herself.

I have one question... if Amanda is innocent in all of this and was even exonerated and released from jail, WHY does the Kercher family STILL believe that she is GUILTY????

Their unwavering belief in her guilt is what makes me think that there is more to the story, otherwise why would they continue to despise her and think she is guilty, knowing it would sway public opinion of her in an unfavorable light and put her away for most of her life?

I do wonder r276 are you part of her team?

So, Amanda Knox defenders, which of her many versions of where she was is the one you consider to be 'the truth'?

This is a rundown of the lack of any computer use at Sollecito's apartment after 9.10pm the night of the murder:

Lack of Computer Activity

The alibi has Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito staying in and spending the night on the computer and reading. The problem with this is that we know that there was no computer internet activity after 9:10:32 pm when the video file Amelie.avi stopped playing. That activity could have been caused by the movie ending without any human interaction. The last computer activity that required human interaction was at 6:27:15 pm when the movie file started playing. There was no computer activity for the entire night. Firefox was open but no browsing occurred. There was a P2P program active, and Quicktime connected to Apple's servers on port 80 for 4 seconds at 12:58 am, but that does not involve human interaction The police contacted FastWeb, Sollecito's ISP provider, and the logs from that night show no webpage requests. This is a problem for Raffaele and Amanda's version of events.

Amanda and Raffaelle don't seem guilty from the evidence, but also, something is not "right" about their behavior or their version of events. Perhaps they're just young and got easily confused when under stress. But it seems a bit more than that.

Maybe they're both psychopaths but didn't commit the crime.

Yes, she did do it. Either way she's not innocent. And, she's got the "crazy eyes" mentioned in some other thread.

Loved that episode of The Good Wife on it. Still, I believe she did it.

If she was doing cartwheels before police talked to her and that made them suspicious (as they have said) then that means she was a suspect from the outset and had the right to have an attorney present. That and that fact that it wasn't recorded should have made her statement inadmissible. The police made the ridiculous excuse that they can't afford to tape interrogations when it only costs about 20 bucks to buy a tape recorder. Meanwhile they had no financial trouble bugging her and Sollecito's phones for weeks and finding out nothing.

You are lying R282. The police maintain that they "accidentally fried all of Sollecito's hard drives making them untestable.

R281, were The Central Park Five lying when they confessed and implicated one another? The City of New York will be paying them millions soon in compensation. Study up on coerced confessions. It's something police don't like to record and don't like lawyers present for.

"This was such powerful evidence at trial, the only thing the defense could say was that the cops contaminated the samples, but there was no evidence of such contamination – and even if contamination were theoretically possible, you could only make such a claim with a straight face for ONE drop of blood – not five samples taken from five different locations."

Another bold faced lie. Knox live with Kercher so of course when Guede dropped her blood in a few locations Knox's DNA was present. The point is that nowhere is Knox's blood mixed with Kercher's and Knox is completely absent in the murder room, while Guede's is all over the room and inside Kercher's blood and vagina. There is also a semens stain on the sheets that the police refuse to test saying they have enough evidence already. I believe they have tested it and found Sollecito's DNA and din't want to weaken their case.

There was evidence of contamination. There are videos showing the police passing the bra clasp back and forth without changing gloves. A first year cop knows not to do this. This is the same bra clasp that sat in a pile of garbage for 6 weeks when the police magically discovered and finally had something to put Sollecito in the room.

7) Lie - It was reported that Amanda Knox went to a lingerie store with Raffaele shortly after Meredith's body was found to by a g-string. It was reported that they were laughing and talking about "wild" sex in the store.

Truth - Amanda was locked out of her apartment because it was a crime scene. She needed underwear. As it turns out, the witness that said Amanda and Raffaele were talking about sex didn't speak any English at all. Amanda was speaking English in the store. It appears the witness was looking for his fifteen minutes of fame. The defense believes he was paid by the tabloid for the story. The store wasn't a lingerie shop. Elizabeth Vargas, an ABC reporter, reported on the Oprah Winfrey show that she visited the store. She said they didn't even sell the sexy lingerie that was described in the media. She described the store as being similar to a Target store in the US. The security camera footage that shows a brief moment when Amanda smiled at Raffaele, was all the media needed to push this lie all over the world. This was one of the most widely distributed lies to come from this entire case. The media knows that sex sells. It doesn't matter who's lives get destroyed in the process.

You've probably heard the "There was blood all over the bathroom and how could she have showered there and not alerted anyone?" argument from guilters. Here is a video of the bathroom as Knox saw it. Another example of a lie that they are spreading to this day.

By the way the prosecution late released this picture to the press which they portrayed to their readers as the bloody bathroom. Actually the room had been saturated with a pink chemical and none of this is blood. Another example of how people's minds were poisoned early on to think of Knox as a maniac.

Should say Guede's DNA at R289.

God, the more I know of Italian society, mores, and the justice system, the more it comes off as some 3rd world, corruption run amok country.

How on earth would evidence of Sollecito's sperm on the sheet in Meredith's room "weaken" the prosecution's assertion that Sollecito took part in her murder??

Actually, you can keep your thoughts on that to yourself.

Well, in Italy's defense, they do allow the United States' secret services to illegally render "enemy combatants" from their airfields. So oh dear, Knox may have trouble persuading John Kerry to piss off the useful Italians by refusing extradition.

In fact a rare instance of the US refusing to extradite a convicted criminal to Italian jurisdiction was oopsy! When two CIA bozos kidnapped a Muslim cleric in Milan. The Italians are still irritated by that. Oh dear again, Amanda.

Amelie drove them to murder by its treacly sentimentality? I can buy that.

Amelie is a terrible movie. And I'm French.

Nice deflection, r288 any chance of answering the question about which version is 'the truth' rather than being a professional Knox shill?

As for the 'co-coerced confession' bull that her media muppets trot out, please explain why neither the US state department or the Knox defense team have ever filed a complaint regarding these allegation of "torture" or "abuse" that they happily report to the press.

"By the way the prosecution late released this picture to the press which they portrayed to their readers as the bloody bathroom. Actually the room had been saturated with a pink chemical and none of this is blood. Another example of how people's minds were poisoned early on to think of Knox as a maniac."

Would you please provide a link to any Italian magazine that ever ran that picture and claimed it was blood.

Thanks in advance.

(oh.... the Knox trolls...)

I wub Amanda.

Having been directly involved in hundreds, if not thousands, of criminal trials, I am absolutely convinced that media coverage of trials is incorrect. I am, therefore, convinced that there is no way that those of us not present at the trial can form any intelligent opinions. My experience does raise some questions, both pro and con. If her appeal fails, I believe she may be able to negotiate some sort of plea agreement that keeps her from doing more prison time. However, I am not convinced that she has enough public support to keep the US from extraditing her. She had an excellent opportunity, upon her return to the states, to do a lot of PR. She doesn't seem to have even tried to do that.

If I just murdered someone, I wouldn't be so STUPID as to be doing cartwheels at the police station.

No, I'd be putting on my Best Oscar-worthy face and acting/emoting as if Meredith were my best friend on earth and was totally shattered by her death. I might even wring out a few tears to show my sadness.

Just think about it, folks.

The press here tomorrow have jumped all over the did interview she did. Every front page of tomorrow's papers are basically ripping her to shreds.

She's a sociopath. That doesn't mean she murdered Meredith.

My guess is that Guede, the convicted murderer, was Knoxy's drug dealer. She let him into the house. They all got high, he killed Meredith. Amanda and her BF, still high as fuck, got out of there.

If Knoxy and her BF had any hand in the murder, Guede would have testified against them for a reduced sentence.

None of them are going to discuss drug dealing or drug taking because then Guede's cartel gets involved and Guede potentially gets murdered in jail, etc.

Innocent, but an accessory to murder. And a liar. And a sociopath.

I agree R306, I posted the same upthread.

I believe she is a sociopath but not a murderer.

Amanda herself admitted that she was in the house, she heard Meredith's screams.

Amanda herself said that, in response to Meredith's screams, Amanda covered her ears.

I believe her.

In nearly every version of her alibi, she is on drugs.

This I also believe.

Amanda has NOT revealed the truth about what happened that night and why. No wonder Meredith's parents want her in jail.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, if she had shit stains on her underwear and forgot to flush the toilet, that PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that she is a sociopath and a murderer.

R309 Lee Baily was a defense attorney.

Now give it another try. I like your style.

R306 is right. There is something shady in her story (stories) from the get-go. It's the drugs. Guede makes no sense as an acquaintance of the couple, except if he is the drug dealer. There is something none of the involved want to talk about, and while it could be sex, it could also be drugs.

She is definitely a sociopath, and I would argue a psychopath as well. As for committing the murder, in no way is she innocent. All three are guilty.

Huh r306? Knox wants to protect Rudy from getting mirderered in jail? Makes no sense:

[quote]If Knoxy and her BF had any hand in the murder, Guede would have testified against them for a reduced sentence.

He did and it was, so there's that.

R313 is right. Lots of know-nothings posting w confidence here. V frustrating.

She has dead eyes, ladies and gentlemen of the jury! Something about her is "off" I tell you! What more proof is needed?

I agree with R306.

I had been thinking that maybe Sollecito, who comes from money, hired Guede to kill Kercher, but I couldn't think of a good reason why. Your scenario with the drugs makes sense.

Raffaele e Knox, to my mind, definitely knew what had happened, and both sound like liars in all interviews I've heard.

[quote]If Knoxy and her BF had any hand in the murder, Guede would have testified against them for a reduced sentence. He did and it was, so there's that.

And this is why Guede's testimony should be ignored. People will say anything to get out of prison.

[quote] Knox wants to protect Rudy from getting mirderered in jail?

Knox doesn't want to be killed by Guede's drug dealer associates in this theory. She's keeping quiet about details, but maintaining her innocence.

Actually, I've always been surprised by how tame Solecito and Knox appear in their interviews: earnest and calmly repetitive about this being a miscarriage of justice.

If someone were trying to frame me for a murder totally unconnected to me, I would be screaming the words "lying bastards" in every sentence. And I'm a pretty sophisticated chick.

[quote] And I'm a pretty sophisticated chick.

Ahem

r304 has it NAILED.

yes! why aren't they each screaming " I DIDN"T DO IT. We were doing cartwheels because we were stupid kids and we didn't realize how serious this was!! We Were DUMB KIDS IN LOVE. WE DIDN"T DO IT WE DIDN"T DO IT ..." And, btw, where is the fucking lie detector test???

why are all you idiots calling her a sociopath? Not a drop of her or her boyfriends DNA at the scene.She didn't do it so WHY is she a sociopath?

Thoughts, please, on the following:

1. Her lawyers at some point had her take a private polygraph. If she passed, why haven't they revealed that?

2. Douglas Preston, the writer very familiar with the prosecutor, has stated he finds anything the prosecutor does "suspicious." However, he has never expressed any belief in Amanda's innocence?

3. Why have US officials not been more involved,especially considering her allegations of abuse.

4. The Kerchner family seems bright and well-educated. Why are they so convinced of Amanda's guilt?

Girl can't even keep her diary and her book telling the same story...

Interesting to see how she was visited and pampered with gifts from both US and Italian diplomats, including "frequent visits from influential Italian politician Rocco Girlanda, who brought her books, computers and other prized items."

r323 good questions. are you sure she's taken a lie detector test?

R325, no I don't know for sure but experience tells me that she would have had a private polygraph.

Both sides spin to support their case.

The fact is, we don't know if she's guilty or innocent.

Do you honestly think the fucked up Italian justice system gives a shit about a private polygraph? They ignore DNA evidence and you expect them take a polygraph seriously?

Innocent of murder; guilty of the Italian versions of obstruction and perjury IMO.

Actually, the jail time for those is probably less than 4 years. Her atty should offer to plea to those.

R328, I wouldn't expect anything from the Italian government. Lawyers have clients take polygraphs so that favorable results can be released for PR.The could proclaim the results to the media and government officials. No one said it would be useful with the police or prosecution. Settle down before you bitch about things you know nothing about.

I guess Italy doesn't believe in double jeopardy. God bless the USA.

r306 has it. what kind of drugs do you think? Not just pot for SURE!

Double jeopardy by no means bars a second trial under any circumstances. She is not being deprived of double jeopardy protections.

There are some threads where opinion alone is sufficient. Other ones, such as this, require some minimal understanding of the law before making proclamations.

Um, you might want to check your Black's Law Dictionary, Perry Mason.

R333 here. My post might have been more understandable if I said that double jeopardy doesn't bar retrial in ALL circumstances.

R335, I think you just ruined the plot of several movies.

Right now, Dateline is showing a two hour show on a man tried 3 times for the same murders. Double jeopardy was never an issue in the case.

It's interesting that Dershowitz thinks she'll be extradited. I think she should be, I just didn't think she would be. He's a brilliant lawyer, if he says US law won't stop it, it probably won't be stopped.

She needs to pack and go on the lamb ala Whitey B.

[quote] She needs to pack and go on the lamb ala Whitey B.

Oh, Ziva...

Sollecito made it to Austria. Why did the idiot return to Italy?

January 27, 2014

"Amidst all the sound and fury surrounding the Italian murder trial of American student Amanda Knox, two people have been largely forgotten.

One is the victim, Meredith Kercher, who was by all accounts a lovely, intelligent young woman full of great promise.

Her murder was a terrible tragedy.

The other is Rudy Guede—the actual murderer.

This book shows that the evidence against Guede was overwhelming from the beginning.

That he committed the crime alone, without help, is also beyond question.

Guede was convicted in a fast-track trial and sentenced to 16 years in prison.

But with time off for good behavior, he may be able to gain daytime release privileges as early as this year.

Meanwhile, the endless judicial persecution of Amanda and her Italian friend and co-defendant, Raffaele Sollecito, continues unabated.

Many people I speak to are still uncertain what to believe.

They wonder if, perhaps, Amanda and Raffaele might have had something to do with the murder.

Some people find it hard to accept that two completely innocent people could linger for so long under a cloud of suspicion, or that the criminal-justice system of a civilized European country could manufacture guilt out of thin air.

Others have been influenced by the online industrial complex of Amanda-haters and conspiracy mongers, who have spread their falsehoods everywhere on the web.

Many have made up their minds, but there are others who genuinely want to know the truth.

"The Forgotten Killer", prepared by some of the country’s leading experts in criminology, forensic science, crime scene analysis, and legal procedure, at long last presents the truth..."

- Douglas Preston in Chapter One of "The Forgotten Killer: Rudy Guede and the Murder of Meredith Kercher".

[quote] Guede was convicted in a fast-track trial and sentenced to 16 years in prison. But with time off for good behavior, he may be able to gain daytime release privileges as early as this year.

And of course the Kercher family did not attend his trial or his appeal (which almost halved his sentence). They didn't send a letter to the court during his appeal either. They also don't have a problem with him getting out of jail this year. They have never said one word about him. It's as if he doesn't exist to them.

How strange is that? I hate to slam the family, but WTF is wrong with them? Rudy's DNA is found in their daughter's vagina, on her body and all over her room and they haven't ever said a word about him. Just Amanda. They've never said a word about Raffaele either. It's as if Rudy and Raffaele don't exist

Question: If Rudy Guede testified at Knox's trial, what was the exact story he told about Knox and her boyfriend, and how credible was that story? He should have been able to provide exact credible details if he was telling the truth.

No R282. That information didn't come from their computer. It all came from the ISP provider. Did you forget that the so called computer expert who was testing Amanda and Raffaele's computers "accidently" destroyed the hard drives to all three of their computers? Had that not have happened, the computers could have cleared them. People do things on their computer with out using the internet. When the hard drive is fried you can't tell what someone did

If you are supposedly a forensic technician getting info from computers that are part of big murder case with international implications, that is being reported about in every newspaper in the world and you "accidently" destroy a computer you are getting evidence from, do you go on and screw around with the second computer? And then when you "accidently" destroy that second computer do you go on to mess with the third and last computer?

If the police in America did this, the case would be thrown out. I can understand accidentally ruining one computer (although you have to be a extremely shitty computer expert and should not be working for the police), but not all three. I don't think I've ever heard of a case where a computer hard drive was destroyed by a police forensic expert. There may be, but I will bet $100,000 that there isn't a computer expert in any police force in the entire world that has ruined three computers they were getting evidence from. And this makes me question their entire forensic investigation team and their methods, which have all been discredited by quite a few FBI investigators and other top forensic investigators

Interview with female Italian prison guard who closely watched over Knox for her four year long incarceration.

Interview describes Knox "not human" and details behaviours consistent with sociopathy.

My God, people are linking to the DAILY MIRROR now? Where are your standards?

She probably still can't get her head around what's happened to her, because she's still mentally inhabiting the American criminal justice system. If this had happened in America, she and her boyfriend wouldn't even have been considered a suspect, especially not with two black men conveniently available to be charged. But the rules of evidence and court procedure and jurisprudence, not to mention the politics of race and class, are completely different in Italy. She can probably get away with staying put in the U.S. and fighting extradition, but her traveling days are over, if she's got any marbles left.

I don't know whether or not polygraph tests are admissible in Italian law but they aren't in America for the simple reason that they are not scientifically proven to be accurate. In fact it's not that hard to cheat on a polygraph, and if you happen to be a sociopath you're guaranteed to pass with flying colors.

Pretty much all forensic "science" except DNA has been proven false, and DNA of course is absurdly easy to plant or corrupt or erase.

Cartwheels could be proof of Amanda being a sociopath....

At the very beginning of the investigation the police were looking for a black guy. They also thought Amanda was "weird." Then they found a text she sent on the night of the murder to her black boss (Lumumba) that said "see you later." They thought, AHA! We've found our black guy and he is connected to this "weird" American girl through employment and this text message that indicates they had a plan to meet up and, obviously, have a devil-sex party. What? The "weird" American girl spent the night of the murder with her Italian boyfriend? Then he was involved too. So emerged the idea of a threesome ritualistically murdering Kercher. They coerced a confession out of Amanda that pinned the murder on Lumumba who, of course, turned out to be innocent.

When the real black rapist and murderer turned up, they had invested so much in the idea of a threesome committing this murder that they simply swapped out Lumumba for another black guy. Never mind that the things that originally connected Lumumba to Amanda were no where to be found between Guede and Amanda. Neither had ever had any phone contact with each other, neither had been seen associating with each other, etc. But at that point it didn't matter. The prosecutor liked the idea of the threesome and he was going to make it work, common sense, physical evidence, and lack of motive be damned.

The "break in" through a window in the bedroom of Amanda and Meredith's flatmate was crudely faked. The girls' apartment was on the 1st floor. The ground floor apartment was far more obvious an entry point for an intruder - it was unoccupied due to the Italian holiday on Nov 1st. Guede had visited the 1st floor twice for parties and knew the layout, but not the girls' floor, which was occupied after 9pm - by Meredith. Her light was on. No evidence of any external entry, only of a rock used to break the window from inside. It had been raining that night. No footprints in the soil outside that broken window. No "intruder" DNA on the window or the room. The window was lit and visible from passing vehicle headlights. Guede's bloody footprints led straight out of the house from Meredith's room.

It was concluded from all this that Guede entered the girls' apartment by the front door, without force, let in by Meredith or Amanda. The two other girls were away for the Italian holiday.

It was also concluded that Knox and/ or Sollecito were the only people who had access to the interior of the "break in" room at the time it occurred, other than Guede. If the break in was staged from inside , if Guede came in through the front door and left trailing bloody footprints direct from Meredith's room to the front door, then Knox and Sollecito are the prime suspects for staging the "break in".

Knox and Sollecito gave contradictory ccounts of their movements on the night of the murder. Their stories changed.

Knox told police Lumumba was in the girls'apartment, had sex with Meredith, killed Meredith, and that she Knox had put her hands over her ears to block out Meredith's scream. Knox did not change this story until a man who had been served by Lumumba in Lumumba's bar at the time of the murder went to the police, which triggered Lumumba's release from jail where he had been for 10 days.

Knox knew Lumumba was in jail facing a murder charge because of her lies. Knox saw Lumumba in court when she Sollecito and Lumumba were taken after being charged. At no time did she retract her lies, and she has never apologized to Lumumba.

Sollecito carried an expensive flick knife. Not a Swiss "pen knife" type knife, an assault weapon. He had a replica assault knife mounted above his bed.

Sollecito employed a cleaner to maintain his apartment. The cleaner was taken to his apartment by the police after Sollecito was charged. She found two bottles of bleach she had not purchased.

Knox was seen by a reliable eye witness before 8am the morning after the killing outside a general goods store, waiting for opening time. She told police she was asleep with Sollecito till 10.30am.

Meredith's body was moved after death and forensic evidence indicates her bra was cut off after her death.

Footsteps rushing away from the house minutes after a neighbour heard a scream presumed to be Meredith's are presumed to be Guede. The only evidence of others in the house who could have interfered with the body is the DNA of Knox and Sollecito.

The case was built on circumstantial, but compelling evidence, that Knox and Sollecito were involved and lied to police about what happened.

Correction to my typing error in above post: : Guede had visited the ground floor apartment prior to the murder, and knew its layout; he had not visited the girls' apartment on the first floor prior to the murder.

Almost every single thing you wrote is either total bullshit or something that was never proven, R353.

And first is was receipts for bleach that turned out to NOT exist, then it was a shop keeper who, one year after the murder, claimed to see Amanda buying bleach who was proven wrong, and NOW its Sollecito's cleaning lady? Good lord.

Guede raped and murdered Meredith. To believe Amanda and Sollecito were involved is to believe in the devil-sex game theory in which Amanda Knox is capable of mind control. Ridiculous.

R354, I did not mention receipts. No receipt for the bleach was found.Just two bottles of bleach in Sollecito's apartment that the cleaner did not purchase.

I didn't mention sex games or devil worship.

I didn't suggest Knox and Sollecito raped or murdered Meredith. I set out the circumstantial evidence which formed the prosecution's case that Knox and Sollecito are the prime suspects for having staged the break in and tampered with the body at the crime scene.

They lied, repeatedly, about their movements that night.

Knox said she was present in the apartment when an innocent man, Lumumba, killed Meredith. She maintained that lie for 2 weeks, only changing her tune story when Lumumba's alibi was secured.

Why did Knox want to frame Lamumba?

R356 why couldn't Guede have faked the break in? I

The real question is why on earth would Guede have staged a break in? How does that help Guede in any way?

A staged break in would only help prove that Guede wasn't let in through the front door.

A staged break in would only help Knox and BF from being implicated as accessories to murder. They let in Guede.

You tell 'em r345! US forensic experts wouldn't mess this shit up.

R357

...because he wasn't coherent enough to flush the fucking toilet.

I don't believe she is completely innocent...ever hear of aiding and abetting?

I trust Amanda Knox about as much as I trust the Italian legal system and police -- not much on either side.

I don't really know is she's guilty or innocent, but I do know that I would never want to be her roommate

R359, they wouldn't crash three computers

[quote] This book shows that the evidence against Guede was overwhelming from the beginning.That he committed the crime alone, without help, is also beyond question.

I know, and it bothers me that the so called forensic experts determined this crime couldn't have been committed alone. That he had to have help.

That's preposterous. Most murders are committed by one person. Murders like this, where the victim has a knife to victims throat are not rare. Honestly. Shit, in Florida there had to have been at least 70 girls/women murdered this way in the last 30 yrs. Look at the Gainesville serial murders. That was one man with one knife. Twice he entered an apt with two people at home, and he killed all four of those people. And none of those victims had defensive wounds. You can google rape, murder, throat slash and get more than 4 million hits

If you read one article on the case, this is a good one.

[quote] You can google rape, murder, throat slash and get more than 4 million hits.

No thank you, I'd rather not.

R356, they didn't lie repeatedly about their movements - they said they were at Sollecito's home. This could have been verified by activity on Sollecito's computer, which they were using - but the Perugia "investigators" accidentally destroyed it, along with the hard drives on Meredith's and Amanda's computers.

Amanda's so-called framing of Lumumba was the result of an overnight interrogation for several hours, with no interpreter, no lawyer, no right to a phone call, and it was the police who suggested to her that Lumumba might have done it, because - although she was not a suspect - they had grabbed her cell phone and looked through her text messages, finding one that said "see you later". Which they, in their great wisdom, took to mean "see you later when we hook up to kill Meredith". They harrassed and harrassed her and told her to try and imagine that Lumumba may have done it and that she was also there. There is also no recording of this interrogation. In fact, this "confession" was such bullshit that even the murder trial dismissed it as inadmissible.

This "confession" is about as reliable as the constantly chaning motive the prosecution gives: starting out from a Satanic sex ritual gone wrong, to a sex game gone wrong, to an argument between Meredith and Amanda that then became a sex game that got out of control, to an argument between Meredith and Amanda over the poop Rudy Guede left in the toilet that neither of them actually used (there were two toilets in the house), to the latest version given by the judge in his great media interview the other day - Amanda found out at 8.15pm that she wasn't working that evening so she and Raffaelle were bored, which somehow ended up in them hooking up with Rudy Guede, a complete stranger, going back to the house, staging a break-in and killing Meredith, all in the space of 45 minutes.

Strangely, however, although the "confession" was inadmissible as part of the murder charge, it was still admissible as part of a slander charge against Knox. Oh, and the trial for slander was running concurrently, in the actual same court and with the same judge and jurists as the murder trial - so, although they weren't meant to be hearing it as part of the murder trial, they did hear it, over and over again. Really great justice system.

Besides, Lumumba's arrest and detention as a supposed result of Knox's alleged confession only highlights what shits the Perugia police are. Instead of simply questioning him and checking out his alibi or waiting till they actually had some physical evidence, they decided, solely on the basis of this dodgy "confession", to arrest him, beat him (as Lumumba himself says) and keep him detained for two weeks. That's what Perugia police do.

Sure, the circumstantial "evidence" that is a lie and a distortion certainly makes up for the fact that no physical evidence whatsoever could be found to prove that Knox and Sollecito murdered Kercher and the evidence that was collected proved that Rudy Guede alone did it.

According to the World Bank’s annual report in 2007, Italy ranks 155th out of 178 countries surveyed for efficiency of justice. Court processes last on average 116 months in Italy, against 34 months in Austria, and delays are increasing year on year. Between 1975 and 2004, the duration of civil cases increased by 90 per cent. Between 1999 and 2007, the European Court ruled against Italy 948 times for failing to meet the timing of a fair trial. It is estimated that in each case at least two defendants are involved, so 16million Italians, or one in four of the population, have pending cases. Less than one per cent of corrupt or incompetent judges lose their jobs. Between 1999 and 2006, there were 1,010 disciplinary proceedings, but only six judges were sacked.

"Strangely, however, although the "confession" was inadmissible as part of the murder charge, it was still admissible as part of a slander charge against Knox. Oh, and the trial for slander was running concurrently, in the actual same court and with the same judge and jurists as the murder trial - so, although they weren't meant to be hearing it as part of the murder trial, they did hear it, over and over again. Really great justice system."

What bothers me about this is that it was a central point of the prosecution in their closing arguments of the third trial. If the Italian Supreme Court had earlier ruled it inadmissible, then why was it allowed?

After he arrested them, the trial prosecutor proposed that the motive was a post-Halloween ritualistic sex game. But when authorities soon realized the DNA and fingerprints in the murder room belonged to neither Knox nor Sollecito, rather than reframing their case, the small town prosecutors and police in the glare of international media dug in their heels. In the latest proceeding, a new prosecutor abandoned the sex game motive but suggested Knox murdered Kercher after an altercation over Knox's poor hygiene and sloppy housekeeping. In other words, out with Satan and in with the dirty laundry.

With no hard evidence and no credible motive, spectators around the world are right to wonder what's going on in these Italian courtrooms. Rudy Guede has never denied watching Meredith Kercher bleed to death, and he left a bloody handprint in the victim's blood on her wall. According to testimony from Italian forensic police, his DNA was inside the victim—although it was not clear whether there was a sexual assault. In his prison writings and in his testimony at his appeal, he talked of how difficult it was for him to get the image of the blood that flowed from Meredith out of his head. Did this garish confession shock the Perugian authorities and courthouse press corps into trying to ascertain just who and what this young man was? On the contrary, he apparently elicited mercy, and had his sentence cut in half. He may well be walking free before the Knox case is settled. In his first comments on the case, before he was captured, Guede was surreptitiously recorded by Perugia police in a Skype conversation with a friend, according to police wiretap transcripts in the trial record, saying that Knox had nothing to do with it. But as soon as he was connected with a defense lawyer, he started to change his story.

t's a trope of the case that Knox (and Sollecito) had a P.R. machine, vast amounts of money and great legal defense, while Guede was legally under-served. In fact, his attorney was one of the busiest criminal defense lawyers in Perugia, well-connected with the prosecution, with a career behind him handling hundreds if not thousands of local crimes, often involving drugs and violence. Prosecutors' reluctance to deeply investigate Guede is understandable; they don't want to know. But Guede may be the most interesting character in the story. Born in Ivory Coast, brought to Italy at age 5, he is more Italian than most immigrants, but, like other immigrants, he is legally just a guest in the homogenous country, not a citizen, required to report to the authorities annually (which was why his fingerprints were on file in Perugia). In the months before the Kercher murder, Guede was broke and showing signs of mental illness, and was involved in three and possibly more home invasions, according to police reports, trial testimony and interviews with victims. His apparent modus operandi was to break into what he thought were empty houses and make himself at home. A few weeks before the Kercher murder, someone broke into a Perugia law office through a second floor window, according to trial testimony from the lawyer who practiced there, turned up the heat, rearranged small trinkets, drank an orange soda from the refrigerator and appeared to have slept on the couch before making off with a laptop. At a nursery school in Milan a week later, director Maria Antonietta Salvadori Del Prato, walked in on a Saturday and found Guede sitting at her desk, she told me in an interview. She called police. They found the stolen laptop and a knife in his pack. Del Prato suspected he might have gotten a key to the nursery school from one of her employees who frequented the Milan club scene. Del Prato told me she believed he spent a night on the children's cots and cooked a pot of pasta in the kitchen, then placed it in little bowls around the room.

Amazing that Amanda, the nice American girl, claims the Italian police beat her until she named the name of an innocent black man.

However that black man, who was arrested on her word, says that the police never laid a finger on him.

She was there. She admitted she was there. She and Raffe could never agree on an allibi. Oh, and how many 20somethings do you know that ever turn their phones off like they both did??

Not true R373. He was quoted in the British press as saying he was abused and referred to as "Dirty black" repeatedly. The article was never retracted.

They don't want to admit they were wrong, especially about a case that got a lot of media attention.

R373, Lumumba did say the police abused him, were racist towards him and accused him of murdering Meredith.

But, let's say you choose not to believe that, what you can't deny are factual events that happened in the public eye - they almost immediately arrested him and detained him for two weeks and did not release him until someone came forward and provided an alibi for him. Why didn't the police do some simple investigation, question Lumumba, check out if he had an alibi, see if there was any real evidence against him, instead of arresting and detaining him straight away? Of course, after that huge fuck up the police had to shift all the blame on to Amanda.

R323 is an example of an extremely stupid person who is either lying through his teeth or just so stupid he doesn't really 99% of what he wrote is bullshit.

The woman is guilty.

This is her million dollar PR firm that handles her brand.

Other clients include AT&T

More of convicted felon Amanda Knox's PR Firm:

R373, do you have some kind of brain problem? At which point did either Amanda or Raffaele admit they were there?

Back in 2007, people turned their cell phones off a lot, but I've never seen any actual clear evidence for this cell phone claim. Oh, but Raffaele's computer was on - just we can't check it, because the police destroyed it.

At r376, I meant to say "he doesn't realise 99% of what he wrote is bullshit."

R376. R323 here. What I wrote is not bullshit. Further, I am a criminal court judge with more than 25 years on the bench and have been honored many times for my work and for scholarly papers. Just what is it that you do that makes you so positive that I am stupid and/or full of shit.

About the computer evidence.

It's very simple.

Sollecito told police he was surfing the internet and sending email for two hours until Amanda turned up at his apartment at 1am following the murder.

There is no record on his Internet Service Provider server of him surfing at the time he said he was surfing. His ISP confirmed that fact.

There was no email sent during the time he said he was sending email. His email provider confirmed that fact.

Sollecito told police his father rang him just before 11pm - approximately the time of the murder.

His father told police in fact they spoke at around 8.30pm. Phone records confirmed that fact.

When police searched Sollecito's kitchen and tested a knife found in his kitchen drawer, they found a trace of Meredith's DNA on the blade. In his prison diary, Sollecito explained the finding - Meredith had cooked a meal in his apartment and he had grazed her hand with the knife accidentally whilst helping her.

Unfortunately Knox told police that Meredith had never visited Sollecito's apartment let alone cooked a meal with him there, a fact supported by Meredith's English friends and the Italian roommates.

Sollecito told

If they were innocent and had no involvement, they could have just told the truth.

Both of them told several lies.

WHY?

Why can't the aggrieved parents just hire Kroll to investigate all this nonsense?

Here, R323/r381, this is what makes me so positive that you're full of shit.

You lied: "2. Douglas Preston, the writer very familiar with the prosecutor, has stated he finds anything the prosecutor does "suspicious." However, he has never expressed any belief in Amanda's innocence?"

Douglas Preston has repeatedly expressed his belief in Amanda and Raffaele's complete innocence. He has written and campaigned on this issue. For you to claim otherwise is a travesty and a lie and only highlights just how those attacking Knox twist and distort the truth.

Two of Preston’s recent books, easily available from Amazon:

1) “Trial By Fury: Internet Savagery and the Amanda Knox Case”

The blurb: “The Amanda Knox murder case generated one of the most savage outpourings of commentary the Internet has ever seen. There are countless statements calling for the murdering, raping, torturing, throat-cutting, frying, hanging, electrocution, burning, and rotting in hell of Amanda, along with her sisters, family, friends, and supporters. "Why? "Trial By Fury explores this dark netherworld, identifying the people involved, and investigating their motives. It documents the real-world damage caused by these anonymous bloggers, including how they managed to get a much decorated ex-FBI agent fired from his job. It also recounts the story of the Wikipedia entry about the case, which triggered a spectacular brawl among top wiki-editors, leading to outings, rants, bannings-for-life, and death threats, requiring the intervention of Jimmy Wales himself.”

2) “The Forgotten Killer: Rudy Guede and the Murder of Meredith Kercher (Kindle Single)” by Douglas Preston and others

The blurb: DESCRIPTION: "Amidst all the sound and fury surrounding the Italian murder trial of American student Amanda Knox, two people have been largely forgotten. One is the victim, Meredith Kercher, who was by all accounts a lovely, intelligent young woman full of great promise. Her murder was a terrible tragedy. The other is Rudy Guede—the actual murderer. This book shows that the evidence against Guede was overwhelming from the beginning. That he committed the crime alone, without help, is also beyond question. Guede was convicted in a fast-track trial and sentenced to 16 years in prison. But with time off for good behavior, he may be able to gain daytime release privileges as early as this year. Meanwhile, the endless judicial persecution of Amanda and her Italian friend and co-defendant, Raffaele Sollecito, continues unabated. Many people I speak to are still uncertain what to believe. They wonder if, perhaps, Amanda and Raffaele might have had something to do with the murder. Some people find it hard to accept that two completely innocent people could linger for so long under a cloud of suspicion, or that the criminal-justice system of a civilized European country could manufacture guilt out of thin air. Others have been influenced by the online industrial complex of Amanda-haters and conspiracy mongers, who have spread their falsehoods everywhere on the web. Many have made up their minds, but there are others who genuinely want to know the truth. "The Forgotten Killer", prepared by some of the country’s leading experts in criminology, forensic science, crime scene analysis, and legal procedure, at long last presents the truth..." - Douglas Preston in Chapter One of "The Forgotten Killer: Rudy Guede and the Murder of Meredith Kercher".

If you truly are a criminal court judge and you not only completely misunderstand what Douglas Preston has said but also cannot even make the effort to look up the basic facts to verify your claims, then you are worthless at your job.

There is also a whole section in The Monster of Florence about what a travesty prosecutor Mignini’s persecution of Amanda Knox is. Preston has been one of Knox’s biggest supporters. It is in this book that Preston has outlined just what a slimy sleazebag Mignini is. To claim that "Preston has never expressed any belief in Amanda's innocence" is an absolute lie, like so many of the accusations made against Knox.

It turns out the judge helped the jury come up with a motive -

Quite unexpectedly, Judge Nencini has added yet another motive: a boys night out. Over the course of 30 meetings, Judge Nencini said that he and the jury had developed "a line of reasoning." Their "reasoning" is that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito "had nothing to do" the night of November 1, 2007 in Perugia. And the idea to kill Meredith Kercher, who was stabbed multiple times, "was born in an evening with the guys" according to Nencini. The Judge did tell the reporters that he was "aware" that this was "most controversial." Nencini also conceded he has no idea what actually happened the night Meredith Kercher was killed.

If you have read the Preston books, R385, they address both the prosecutor and the infamy caused by the internet. Rely on something other than the "blurbs" as you admit you did. As I stated earlier, if you read the the tracts (not really book), he admits that he is "suspicious" of everything the prosecutor does but never proclaims that he believes Amanda to be innocent of any wrongdoing. I can't believe you reply based on the book blurb on Amazon. If you were one of my students in law school, I would fail you. Stop trying to play with the big kids.

I don't know whether it is a tenet they follow in the Italian courts, but I think reasonable doubt is something that a lot of people are ignoring in relation to this case.

My personal stance is that there is enough reasonable doubt as to Sollecito's and Knox's involvement that there isn't enough to convict them in the case. In the case of Guede, who's DNA was found inside Meredith, I think there is no doubt of his involvement.

When interviewed in 2008, Doug Preston uniequivocably asserted a belief in Amanda Knox's innocence: "Amanda had absolutely nothing to do with the murder. The outpouring of abuse toward her is extremely disturbing. I am convinced she is innocent, and I cannot understand why there has been such a bloodthirsty rush to judgment."

It does not make sense a young girl on her first trip to Europe to go to for school would kill her room-mate after just being there a few weeks and others living in the house.

Amanda had a boyfriend who had his own apartment. Why would they want to kill a room mate they did not know very well especially when they were enjoying life and love together?

I think any young person caught up in such a deadly mess on their first trip away from home would be terrified and act weird from the pressure. Think: A Hard Day's Night and the Beatles acting out from pressure of being famous.

There were shady people coming in and around that house long before Amanda arrived from what it seems.

Agreed, R390. And pretty, twenty year old college girls don't need to "spice up" their sex lives by dragging in some creepy looking criminal off the streets and demanding he rape their messy roommate. Twenty year old kids have sex 24-7 without resorting to such an absurd scheme. The whole orgy thing is straight from the mind of an older man.

r389, thanks for that info. I thought I had closely researched Preston's position of Knox but I did not find your source. That answers of of my questions and I appreciate the help.

From when I first heard about this case, it seemed fishy. I have read nothing which makes it seem that Amanda Knox participated at all in the death in that apartment with multiple roommates. Everything brought against her was proven to be bad information or false and yet the court seemed bent on putting this young American girl behind bars. No matter the evidense.

Just one question...would any of you Amanda apologists expressing firm belief in her innocence spend the night in a house with her without keeping one eye open during the night?

R389,

In Italy, there is no jury duty: jurors are professionals with some background in jurisprudence, not crackheads chosen at random by voting records who can be spoonfed opinions by a capable lawyer of judge.

The judge and jury are professionals and have probably worked together before.

r394, YES.

I think she acted weird but wasn't involved.

She's probably innocent but I wouldn't want her in my life. Something about her gives me the creeps.

r398, A young girl goes to Europe for a semester and finds a nice boyfriend and is enjoying a great experience for anyone.

A murder is comitted in the place she lives for a matter of weeks and she is told - in a language that is not her own - that she murdered her roommate.

I doubt any of us at that young an age in a foreign country for the first time would not be traumatized after 2 murder trials.

[quote] A young girl goes to Europe for a semester and finds a nice boyfriend..

And here I thought Knox was an adult who, in all of her versions of the evening, was so high as kite she couldn't remember what she was doing for several hours.

Yup, nice boyfriend is a lounge lizard with a rich dad, swank pad, and a new Audi. Not everyone's family can throw $100k around to silence witnesses.

You've got the whole British tabloid thing down, R400.

Nice kids get drunk, smoke weed, and have sex, btw.

r401, yes. Nice kids get drunk, smoke weed, and have sex, btw

Have you ever been to a frat party?

Wow, r387, you really are stupid - or just a devious liar. The "blurb" is the blurb that describes the book, which is usually written by the author themselves. I quoted the blurb that accompanied these kindle ebooks on Amazon because that's the easiest way to describe their content - since the blurb is provided directly by the author/publisher.

All through “Trial By Fury: Internet Savagery and the Amanda Knox Case” and "The Forgotten Killer: Rudy Guede and the Murder of Meredith Kercher" Douglas Preston (and his co-authors for the second book), as well as in the section on Knox in "The Monster of Florence" constantly and unequivocally declares not only his belief in Knox and Sollecito's innocence but also his belief that they were set up by the proseutor Mignini.

Certain individuals on here keep spouting "but she changed her story, but she changed her story". I know of no specific instances where Amanda changed her story.

Can you point to particular instances, with links to reliable evidence that she actually made such statements? Otherwise we're back to judging people on the basis of "she must be a murdered, I can see it in her eyes" type evidence.

Here is a video of Doug Preston discussing how rubbish the accusations against Knox are.

He lucidly debunks all the "evidence" against Knox and Sollecito. Excellent and thoughtful interview, all should watch it.

(The audio is not great though.)

But Sollecito had an Audi, R405! Preston didn't address that, did he?

You can tell the Knox PR posts--they come in clumps.

Actually, I wonder at the wisdom of the Knox parents diverting so much money to a PR team--as if there is a media battle instead of a legal one. Every time I see a post, on DL or a news site, that starts with a variation of, "Knox was a young girl living her dream with her equally guileless and naïve boyfriend," I immediately am pushed to believe the opposite.

Save your money, Knox family.

Dear "clumps" at r407 and r408, what is "PR" about pointing out that Douglas Preston is fully behind Amanda Knox and Rafaelle Sollecito? It's the truth.

Sounds more like, you're the propagandist. Tell us again, on what "evidence" do you base your conviction of Knox's guilt? Aside from whatever you think you can read in her eyes, that is.

Anyone looking objectively at the tabloids would know where the spin and lies are coming from, and it ain't from the defence.

I personally believe she is far from innocent in this whole affair - same goes for boyfriend, and am not a propagandist at all. Zero interest in the case. Other than seeing a criminal behind bars.

Besides, 47 wounds to the chest indicate passion, so Meredith was most likely killed by someone she knew. Not some random drug dealer who broke into her house.

r410, Rudy Guede had a history. I can't even believe that this is still even up for debate. His DNA was all over the fucking place, he fled, and he had a history. Amanda's DNA was nowhere to be found. The evidence they had was laughable. Yet here we are still discussing her guilt or innocence. This all comes down to hating her because she's white, female, and American. Why else do you think the British media ran with the slogan "Foxy Knoxy"?

[italic]If they were innocent and had no involvement, they could have just told the truth.

Both of them told several lies.[/italic]

After being screamed at for days by Italian officials. This happens all the time, hon. It's why people confess to crimes they didn't commit. The Italian authorities lied and bungled the case beyond belief.

[quote]Further, I am a criminal court judge with more than 25 years on the bench

Which is frightening.

[quote]Amanda's so-called framing of Lumumba was the result of an overnight interrogation for several hours, with no interpreter, no lawyer, no right to a phone call, and it was the police who suggested to her that Lumumba might have done it, because - although she was not a suspect - they had grabbed her cell phone and looked through her text messages, finding one that said "see you later". Which they, in their great wisdom, took to mean "see you later when we hook up to kill Meredith". They harassed and harassed her and told her to try and imagine that Lumumba may have done it and that she was also there. There is also no recording of this interrogation. In fact, this "confession" was such bullshit that even the murder trial dismissed it as inadmissible.

Bingo!

R410, I also think she is guilty--but of aiding/abetting, obstruction or something, not murder.

I also don't care, though I would not want her living in my neighborhood.

What I do think is sad--aside from the murder, which I don't think they did--is seeing her two old parents who are pissing their retirement and homes away for the sake of her stupidity in trying to cover up a crime.

[quote] It's why people confess to crimes they didn't commit

People confess to crimes they didn't commit when they're being waterboarded, beaten, or (Salem witch trials) crushed to death. Screaming? Please.

The American consulate rep. reported no irregularities with the court system or her questioning.

Can't figure out if R410 or R415 is my Catholic grandmother.

"There's just something about that girl..."

Lumumba's initial story about being hit by the Italian police certainly seems to corroborate Knox's story about being hit.

But Sollecito is an Audi driving "lounge lizard," so they're obviously all lying.

R417,

Then you'd better be a fetus because I'm only four years older than your client.

Anyway, I would like to hear more from the criminal court judge from upthread.

Please do come back.

Perhaps you could ask the self-declared criminal court judge how - if, as you claim, Amanda killed Meredith - only Rudy Guede's DNA was found all over Meredith and all over her room, while no traces of Amanda or Rafaelle's DNA were found in it.

For those who claim Knox did it because of the "look in her eyes", how do you like Rudy Guede's eyes? Really think he's not crazed enough to have viciously stabbed Meredith Kercher all on his own?

"The American consulate rep. reported no irregularities with the court system or her questioning."

She never met an attorney until she was arraigned. Clearly she was a suspect because her phones had already been tapped before the police spoke to her and they also are on record as saying her cartwheel made them suspicious and that was before the interrogation. Because of this her statement was ruled inadmissible, but it was snuck in by having a civil trial at the same time because so many people were also suing Knox. For some reason the judge in the third trial allowed the prosecutor to use the "She blamed an innocent black man" as a key part of his closing arguments. Why is this so if the Supreme Court had made the statement inadmissible? This should be something the European Court eventually looks at.

One thing the trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito have always lacked is a verifiable motive for the murder of Knox's British roommate. So police and prosecutors have thrown handfuls of motives against various courtroom walls in the hopes that one sticks. It has become a prosecutor's user manual for creative but baseless arguments. So the past motives for the crime are: it was a sex-game gone bad; it was a ritual killing; it was a robbery; it was mean girls; it was because Amanda Knox is a "she-devil."

Quite unexpectedly, Judge Nencini has added yet another motive: a boys night out. Over the course of 30 meetings, Judge Nencini said that he and the jury had developed "a line of reasoning." Their "reasoning" is that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito "had nothing to do" the night of November 1, 2007 in Perugia. And the idea to kill Meredith Kercher, who was stabbed multiple times, "was born in an evening with the guys" according to Nencini. The Judge did tell the reporters that he was "aware" that this was "most controversial." Nencini also conceded he has no idea what actually happened the night Meredith Kercher was killed.

The sound you should be hearing is the Italian Justice Minister's lightning bolt, figuratively of course, striking Judge Nencini and restoring his common sense. But that isn't happening. So the wait is on to see what, if anything, happens to the Judge. And in the meantime, the trial of Amanda Knox and Raffealle Sollecito will continue to resemble Lewis Carroll's White Queen's approach to jurisprudence (Sentence first, verdict afterwards).

Not only do they have a new motive, developed with the help of a judge, they have inserted a brand new murder weapon into their conviction -

The high court was convinced, even without proof, that Meredith Kercher had died as a result of a multi-person sex game gone wrong and said a new trial must take this into account. Enter Alessandro Crini, the lead prosecutor in the latest appeal, who did his best to follow the high court’s directions but could not make the sex-game theory stick.

Instead, Crini came up with an entirely new scenario, unheard in any previous court proceedings going back to 2008, in which he envisioned Knox and Kercher arguing over an unflushed toilet and then somehow allowing the argument to escalate to the point where Knox pulled an eight-inch kitchen knife from her purse and Sollecito plunged his pocket knife into her neck. Guede’s role, Crini claimed, was limited to “satisfying himself in barbarous fashion” – in other words, seeking sexual gratification while the murder took place in front of him.

The kitchen knife has been tested repeatedly and it is now agreed by all parties that Kercher’s DNA was not on it. Sollecito’s penknife, meanwhile, was never seriously considered to be a factor until Crini suddenly decided it was—again, without a shred of forensic evidence. The prosecution had nothing to place Knox or Sollecito in the house on the night of the murder, much less in Kercher’s room. And it had no motive to offer beyond the ludicrous notion – also unproven -- that Knox was moved to homicidal rage because Kercher accused her of being messy around the house, and Sollecito was willing to go along with the crime out of love for her.

[quote]The high court was convinced, even without proof, that Meredith Kercher had died as a result of a multi-person sex game gone wrong

Without proof? Not exactly. Meredith had NO defensive wounds. Yet she was stabbed a whole bunch. She also had bruises on her wrists and ankles as if she were being restrained. No one person can hold someone's wrists and ankles and stab them multiple times.

R426, how does what you say constitute evidence, let alone proof? How would a multi-person sex game be less likely than a one-person rape to make the victim defend herself, once knives were pulled on her?

If there was NO evidence, and this was simply a Kangaroo Court jailing a US citizen for no reason and with no evidence, the US -- hell, the United Nations -- would have intervened. But they didn't. And haven't. And won't.

gee r428, you ought to go to law school.

Not true, R426. She had defensive bruises, but they were considered "light." In other words, they existed.

Criminal court judges don't write "scholarly papers."

None of this would be happening if those Marine fighter pilots who killed a bunch of people on a ski lift in 1998 while screwing around had been punished instead of just discharged from the Marines.

I've always thought Guedde did it.

Guede is now free to leave jail on day release.

ugh

R431, some judges do, in fact write scholarly papers.

Notice none of the "Justice for Meredith" crowd is up in arms over Guede's impending day release? Witch hunting is only fun if it's centered around a woman.

They should be - he's the one who did it

Even in the crazy conspiracy theories, she is a hanger on, not the main killer

Apparently the judge in the third trial ruled that Knox and Sollecito did the killing and Guede only had sexual fun.

I've always thought that Knox was guilty of murder.

She's gotten away with it so far and may well avoid extradition back to Italy. I don't see what her crazy internet fans are bitching about, as a murderer Knox has had fantastic luck.

Very interesting piece in the LA Review of Books. Compelling, I'd say, for anyone who believes that Knox very likely did NOT kill Kercher.

Don't forget this was an ear when the US was sending CIA kill teams into Italy to render prisoners to various dictatorships. Could Knox have been a CIA trainee and Kirchner guessed her secret?

what do you think of Raffale's comments?

He just trying to help him self out for a new trial. Has to distance him self from Amanda.

AMANDA KNOX IS INNOCENT.

What comments R442?

"I would say that there are thousands of Americans in jail today on the basis of far less evidence than there is against Amanda Knox," Alan Dershowitz, a Harvard Law professor, said.

"One, she first admitted she was at the crime scene and then denied it. Second, she falsely accused somebody who was totally innocent of committing the murder. Third, she turned off her cell phone during the relative period of time. Fourth, there was DNA found underneath the bra strap and on the knife.

"It wasn't enough to establish conclusively that it was hers, but it certainly pointed in that direction. There was a pool of blood with a footprint and the man who was convicted of the murder blamed it on her, testified against her, the court found that it couldn't have been done by one person, it had to be done by at least two people."

But whether Italy can compel Knox — dubbed "Foxy Knoxy" by the press — to return is up in the air, according to Dershowitz.

"Legally, she should be required if her conviction is affirmed, but she has been conducting an incredibly successful media campaign," he said.

"I have to tell you, in 50 years of practicing law, I had never seen a more one-sided presentation by the media in the United States of the case. Everybody is saying there's no evidence against her and she's totally innocent. It's just not true."

In America, everybody's ignoring the victim, everybody is pretending as if the Italian court system is the Iranian court system, and as if they made up all of the evidence against her."

As to why he believes that is so, Dershowitz said:

"One word: she's pretty and she doesn't look like she did it and Americans care about what people look like. She's the all-American young woman and we don't care about the evidence."

"If I were the family of the victim here, I would be outraged at the way the American media is treating this case.'

Likewise, Dershowitz added, Knox should be outraged by the coverage of the case in Italy.

They're treating this case as if she's Al Capone, as if there's no question about her innocence or guilt. It's become black and white. [In] Italy, she's guilty beyond any doubt. In America, she's innocent beyond any doubt," he said.

"The truth is it's a very close case. There's a lot of evidence of guilt, there's some evidence of innocence. On balance, it's more likely than not that she did, but there's not enough evidence to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt."

Here, R445:

There is nothing against me and nothing very strong against Amanda," Sollecito recently told CNN. "And in my case, I really did nothing wrong, and I don't want to pay for someone else's peculiar behavior."

Knox's behavior on the morning Kercher was found stabbed to death in the apartment she and Knox shared seems to be a new hitch for Sollecito. That was early November 2007, and he and Knox had only been dating for a week. Sollecito expanded on his doubts in a new interview with Italian television this week that aired in part on NBC.

Knox had spent the night with him but went back to her place to shower, he said. When she returned, she was "very agitated." She told him that it looked like someone had broken in and that there was blood in the bathroom, Sollecito said. But rather than call the police, she showered and returned to his place.

He finds it odd, he now says. "Certainly I asked her questions," he said. "Why did you take a shower? Why did she spend so much time there?" He didn't get any real answers from her, he said in the interview.

Amanda Knox never killed anyone.

Alan Dershowitz reveals himself to be completely unhinged on this issue by very certain omissions and misrepresentations. He knows better, therefore his opinions about Amanda Knox are simply irrational.

She either did it or was involved somehow. How anyone can have any sympathy for this girl is beyond me.

Think of the chocolate!!!!

[quote]From [R446] Americans care about what people look like. She's the all-American young woman and we don't care about the evidence

This is the absolute truth.

At least she didn't let herself get "gelatinous"!

The American media protected Amanda. If u look at all the evidence, Amanda was involved. I can see why Americans think she is innocent because of media. There is something very psych off about Amanda. If u met her, u would think she is brain damaged. Most serial killers r brain damaged. Poor pulse control and just don't have empathy or fear of consequences.

Knox participated in a very violent riot while in Italy. She was only one arrested. Had sex with 55 yr old man on first day in italy. In public washroom.

Oh, please. That guy from the Ivory Coast did it. She and her boyfriend had nothing to do with it.

Amanda was only one with motive to fake the break in. Amanda was in debt to her drug dealer yet she had a bunch of cash in her possession but Meridiths rent money was missing. Amanda did not have alibi. Amanda falsely accused someone and continued to falsely accuse him in letters to her mother once he was exonerated. Every piece of circumstantial evidence points to bleach girl.

r457 = Someone who hasn't actually done any reading on the facts of the case.

r457 = Someone who hasn't actually done any reading on the facts of the case.

No alibi,lying, fake break in are facts. Guilty.

The guy did it...not her boyfriend, the other freak in the house did it. That is a given.

The black guy participated but he had no motive to fake break in or did he? He didn't have the brains to flush the toilet after number2. Everything we know points to Amanda except that black guy participated. Amanda is mildly retarded. Amanda will kill again.

Amanda told her roommates how Meredith died before the police had removed Merediths body from the house and before they autopsied the body.

She's getting married. Can't wait for the '48 Hours' special about her future husband's disappearance 10 years from now.

No way it takes 10 years

The European tabloids had a field day with this story and no doubt there were certain over the top exaggerations about this woman. However , I can't for the life of me understand why so many Americans see her as a wide eyed, girl next door waif. Clearly something is very wrong with her.

R464 I'm sure mommy and daddy have a savvy lawyer on retainer, just waiting for the moment Their Little Princess snaps again.

Does the fiance have life insurance?

She did it, she got away with it, stupid people defend her for it but she's guilty.

Let's hope she disappears into obscurity like other murderers who get away with it have done.

Had this happened in the US we would know if she did it or not. But we don't know because of the convoluted Italian justice system and the language barrier. Unless she confesses.

Or kills again.

Can you imagine if a man had behaved the way this freak did while abroad? If a man had posed with guns in a photo they labeled "the Nazi within ", had giggled hysterically in court and wrote bizarre short stories people would see him for what he was. I think her gender is actually protecting her in this case.

I fear she will breed with this fool, and we'll soon be reading about how tragedy seems to follow poor Foxy Knoxy when multiple offspring mysteriously die from "SIDS."

R473 but not before posing with her spawn in a People Magazine photo shoot detailing her struggles to conceive her "miracle baby ".

She did confess, R470. Sure, she tried to take it back later and namby pambys weep over it and say it doesn't count but it counts. The Knox bitch confessed to the murder.

R475 Her knight in shining armor defenders will argue that it was only after her "intense and terrifying interrogation ". Which, as it turns out, consisted of a couple of hours of questioning by a dual Italian / English speaker, cups of chamomile tea served by the police , and a couple of bathroom breaks.

She also ruined at least one other person's life. If you remember, she told police that her boss killed Kirchner. He was actually taken into custody and charged. Had witnesses not come forward, it is my belief he would have gone down for the murder, and Amanda, knowing she lied, would have gone on with her life. Her boss wound up losing his bar and is still paying off his legal debts. He had to move to Poland with his wife and kids and cannot find work. Amanda, who made millions from her book and appearances, has never told this man she's sorry, nor has she offered to help him out financially.

R477 she lied and said police hit her to get her to accuse him. BS.

She'll be broke again someday and we'll get her version of "If I Did It" or whatever that scumbag Simpson was going to call his bullshit book.

She and Sollecito are innocent. They weren’t there when it happened. The cops found a black man’s pubes on Meredith. They saw that Amanda had texted “see you later” to her black boss Lumumba. They accused him. They told Amanda that they knew it was him. They told her to imagine him doing it. Like so many people before her, she made a false statement under duress and recanted it, but it was too late. Once the real murderer confessed, they were too invested in the idea of Amanda being involved. So they switched out the black guy she knew with a black guy she had no contact with.

Lumumba said that the police hit him, R478. It’s not far fetched to imagine that they also hit Amanda.

Sollecito claimed he was home on his computer and he had called his father - both lies. Investigators also found a weird pattern of calls and a simultaneous blackout period on both their cell phones.

Also, Knox is the one who first stated to police that her boss committed the murder, not the other way around.

There's also Sollecito's fascination with knives, his misogyny and his Facebook posts alluding to his involvement in the murders and Knox's mental health issues.

Though she later denies it, phone records indicate that Knox called her mother at 3 a.m. Seattle time, just before Kirchner's body is discovered.

When the police find Kirchner's door locked, Knox tells them Kirchner always locks her door, even when she goes to shower. Upon arrival at the residence, the other roomate, Filomena, seeing that Kirchner's door is locked, panics and demands that police break down the door, stating that Kirchner would never lock her door.

She did it because most fish hate other fish.

What's up with the fiancé's nutty stripy beard shaving?

R484 he's a nut, just like Amanda. He showed up to the premiere of her propaganda film in this freaky, schizo outfit. I shudder to think of how disordered Amanda's twat droppings will be.

It would be ironic if her husband ends up murdering her. Odds are he's some random dude she found online. For all she knows, he could be some obsessed kook who's been following her case since day one and plotted to insinuate himself in her life.

Can't believe I would ever say this, but "Amanda, gurl you in danger."

"Amanda, knox it off!"

R486 that's an interesting thought. Any man willing to marry, rather than just fuck, this raving loon has got to be a little screwed in the head himself.

Is this consensus here really that Knox was guilty of murder? I watched the “propaganda” documentary and didn’t get that impression at all. It stretches all credulity. What motive did she have to kill her new roommate?

Knox seems vaguely Aspie, but I don’t think that means she is definitely an evil murderess. When people talk about her mental illness, what specific mental illness is she said to have?

R489 she was caught repeatedly lying to the authorities about things there were no reason to lie about. Her, and her boyfriends phone records contradict her official statements. She called herself a Nazi while posing with a machine gun. She also harassed a young Jewish male Co worker while living in Italy, repeatedly screaming at him "My people killed your people " while laughing hysterically. The young man told the media that he was "really freaked out " and avoided her after the incident. I don't know what specific mental illness she has but something's wrong. Her fairly well off parents hired an excellent pr team to handle the media and public. Most of what Americans have heard about this case comes straight from her pr team.

True R6, Knox is not even that pretty she has herpes and is what my hetero friends call a brown bagger, or butter face. Meaning she may have an in shape body but her face is extremely homely and ugly.

I do believe she, her then boyfriend, and Rudy murdered Meredith.

I know that she never said a believable thing on TV all the times I saw her.

R480 only that's not what really happened. Amanda Knox was NOT coerced or forced to give a statement. She had a translator/interpreter with her the entire time, and Knox understands Italian.

Amanda blamed Lumumba and lied about him to get suspicion away from her and her boyfriend, and Rudy.

R472 or her mental illnesses and the fact she is a sociopath that's from a very wealthy family. Hopefully she loses all of her cash like that Casey Anthony cunt that killed her daughter.

R466 Because her wealthy parents hired a PR Team, multiple lawyers, etc. The media in the United States also would run stuff through the PR Team, lawyers, etc. before publishing it.

Also, most North American people do not read, speak, or understand Italian, or read or watch news from other countries at all.

R492 yes, I agree. Each time I have seen her interviewed on television the same thought struck me :" She's acting ". And it's not very good acting either, very very shallow affect.

I still don’t see what motive she had to commit this murder.

Do you think she’ll kill again?!

R497 because she's a sociopath obsessed with rape and murder. Her ex boyfriend was like this as well. Yes.

You know it R467.

I don't think she did it. I don't the case makes any sense. i think the Italian police fucked up, not sure if they just didn't want to arrest an Italian and went from there. Not sure if they didn't want to arrest an African immigrant and went from there. But I think they just fucked up and then like police and prosecutors in every country and every situation, they were stuck with the imperative to never, ever, never, ever, never, ever, ever, ever admit a mistake.

R500 if you look at all the evidence you will see how Amanda Knox and her ex boyfriend were involved in the murder and were there.

hadn't she barely showed up in Italy, R501. why so murderous? was she crazy murderous before?

It makes no sense, R502.

There was no DNA because she was planning it from the moment she moved in.

oh, come on. this is what makes me wonder.

What does R505?