Why didn’t Liza Minnelli make more movies?

Maybe it was the Oscar curse but she had around 3 big flops after Cabaret, including Lucky Lady which was one of those movies everyone talked about (in a bad way). Arthur was considered sort of a comeback, but that was not the lead role the movie revolves around. I think she started concentrating on one-woman shows like Liza With a Z, and theatre, after that.

She may have stepped out, but she didn't step up.

She was splendid in Carbaret.

[quote]Why didn’t Liza Minnelli make more movies?

One of the greats, lost to the lure of a career in aluminum siding.

She excelled in musicals, but musicals weren't being made anymore.

#2 and #4.

She could act, but she was extremely hard to cast (she could only realistically play oddballs on screen, although she could do so brilliantly), and during her prime years (after Cabaret) she was too coked up or too drunk to do much.

You're only as good as your last picture. And after Lucky Lady, A Matter of Time, and New York, New York, Liza's name was "Mud" in the picture business.

Liza had goofy looks and very limited talent. Studios didn't know what to do with her but she didn't either. She was not a believable romantic female lead and she was unwilling to be a total comic on screen. Onscreen, she was more suited to being the second banana. She would have been great as Rizzo in Grease as Allan Carr wanted.

First of all, you all are forgetting about Rent-a-Cop.

[quote] Liza's name was "Mud"

Drunk Sissy's name is Liza with a "Z"!

How erratic or unreliable did the drug and alcohol issues make her? Did they affect her professionalism, ability to learn lines, etc?

[quote]She would have been great as Rizzo in Grease as Allan Carr wanted.

I would have loved to hear her sing "There Are Worse Things I Could Do" (before the denture slurring), but Liza would have been even sillier as a teenager in 1978 than Stockard Channing, since she had played multiple high-profile adult roles by that time.

[quote] Liza had ...very limited talent.

People say the dumbest shit around here

Her calling was to sell stretch pants on Home Shopping TV.

Getting caught up in Studio 54 did her no favors.

And I'm not coming from a place of judgement, if I had been around back then I would have been partying my ass off at Studio 54 as well.

I would've loved to have seen Liza in Sophie's Choice breaking into song at the camp.

Because she competing for the quirky fragile parts she was good at with Shelly Duval, Sissy Spacek, Karen Black, Mia Farrow, Diane Keaton and Sandy Dennis, who were better , more subtle screen actresses than she was.

I would've loved to have seen Meryl Streep try to play Sally Bowles.

Liza with a Z was the same year as Cabaret not something she did at the end of her movie career.

Why did Liza have to be more subtle? She had the personality she had, and she projected that personality, just as Mia Farrow projected her own essentially one-note fragility and gamine-like quality into her 70s. And Liza was also adept at singing and dancing, something Shelley Duvall or Karen Black probably were not (and by the way, Karen Black was not subtle).

I think Liza's persona was somewhat out of step with the '70s zeitgeist. Streisand, or all people, embraced it, and went from a New Yorker who did New York schtick and played Fanny Brice and sang show tunes, to a tanned California frizz-haired Laurel Canyon soft rock singer. At least Liza stayed true to who she always was (and still does).

*of all people

R13, I noticed you edited out saying Liza had goofy looks. Apparently you didn't think that was so stupid. And her talent was so limited that she was unable to play anything but Liza.

R22

[quote] To say someone has "limited talent" generally means their natural, innate ability in a specific field is not very high, suggesting that they may not be able to reach the highest levels of achievement, no matter how hard they work. It is a critique that separates a person's effort and passion from their raw potential.

[quote] The term implies there is a certain point beyond which the person cannot significantly improve, or that progress will be extremely difficult. For instance, a person can be passionate about the guitar and practice constantly, but due to limited innate musical talent, they might never be able to earn a living as a professional musician.

That's what "limited talent" means, and I don't think you're using the term correctly in applying it to Liza. You seem to think it means not having range.

As for her "goofy" looks, I edited it out because I wanted to focus on how I thought you were wrong about her talent. I don't happen to find her looks goofy, though.

Try imagining her in any of these 70s - early 80s great roles for women roughly in her peer age group:

Alice Hyatt in "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore"

Evelyn Mulwray in "Chinatown"

Diana Christiansen in "Network"

Carrie White in "Carrie"

Norma Rae Webster in "Norma Rae"

Beth Jarrett in "Ordinary People"

Sophie in "Sophie's Choice"

Frances Farmer in "Frances"

I think your question has been answered for you.

R23, if that's what limited means, I think Liza definitely qualifies as she has never significantly improved from Sterile Cuckoo to Steppin Out, which is fine. She's Liza but the question was why she didn't make more movies. She had limited talent, lack of looks and her approach onscreen was strident. It might have appealed on stage, like a Merman, but she was too manic for the movies.

R20 Im not arguing that Liza was untalented. At all. She’s extremely talented. But she had a combination of, old Hollywood vibacity and large expressive features that put her completely out of step with the more naturalistic style of acting that dominated 70s filmmaking. It didn’t matter if she could dance or not. Musicals were extremely uncool in the 1970s, they were considered part of an old Hollywood way of storytelling that the young establsihment was Ina drive rebellion against. Liza represented that old guard by birth and by her essential energy, which was larger than life, melodramatic and performative. There’s a reason why it’s a common joke to imagine Liza in a restrained non-flashy role. She’s a little much, works better on stage. she was also an incandescent talent with incredible star quality. But she came along at the absolute worst time for what she brought to the table.

Lisa

R25 You still don't get it. Did you read the description about guitar playing? Limited talent would be like, one of Liza's aunts, who probably weren't talented enough to make it as movie stars, like Liza's mother. One of them did a lot of community theater, where she later lived, in Texas. Her talent was LIMITED to that level.

And she was limited by the standards of the day because unlike Dennis, Streep, Spacek, farrow, Black, even Duval, Liza couldn’t “disappear” into a role if her life depended on it.

Give me every drug you’ve got!

You're comparing apples and oranges. Like trying to compare Katharine Hepburn to Mary Martin.

Lots and lots of limited talent professionals make a good living. It's not meant as a putdown, it's an observation and an opinion.

R32 Except you're ignoring that Liza Minnelli isn't a limited talent professional who made a good living. She's one of the biggest stars of her time, a household name, who sold out concerts for years and won an Academy Award, a BAFTA Award, a Primetime Emmy Award, two Golden Globe Awards, a Grammy Award, and three Tony Awards...as well as the French Legion of Honor.

Why don't you just have a seat?

A limited talent would be someone like Lucy Arnaz. Not that I don't love her.

Even though Liza was a Boomer, her talents and her whole persona were from the previous generation of entertainers. She was totally out of step with what was in fashion in the 70s and 80s. She was total SHOWBIZ PIZZAZZ and it just couldn't translate into the film landscape of the 70s and 80s, with of course the exception of Cabaret.

Fortunately for Liza, she was an incredible live performer (like her mother) and didn't need movies to stay in the public zeitgeist.

^As opposed to the private zeitgeist?

Shes a great star, r33 an icon even at a level that surpasses many of the actresses who e been mentioned in previous posts. But she was not cut out to be a great dramatic film actress of the 70s. Not in her wheelhouse, in the same way that Sissy Spacek could never hope to equal Liza’s pizzas on stage.

There are a ton of stage legends who could translate their gifts to film: Carol Channing, Ethel Merman, so many. The fact that They had limits to thier talent does not mean that their talents were limited in the sense of being minor.

It’s like you want us to see she was infinitely talented and capable of playing everything from sally Bowles to mother courage to Sophie’s Choice to E.T. But she wasn’t. Her great talent like all talents… had limits.

[quote] There are a ton of stage legends who could translate their gifts to film: Carol Channing, Ethel Merman, so many.

Well, if those are your two best nominees, you're in trouble. Neither of them was much known as a screen star.

Usually they're both named along with Tallulah Bankhead and Zero Mostel as classic examples of Broadway stars who mostly COULDN'T translate their stage success to the big screen.

Sorry I meant “couldn’t” and also pizaz not pizzas r38

She did a fairly formulaic, but still watchable, TV movie about a mother whose young son has muscular dystrophy, “A Time to Live,” and toned it down for the role - no singing, no sequins, no sloshed sibilants- and was good. The script was better than most of her movie scripts. With Corey Haim as the kid.

[quote]As opposed to the private zeitgeist?

Really? Like, fucking seriously?

I wonder how much the Martin Scorsese twofer of New York, New York/The Act hurt her. Both of them came out of that situation looking less than disciplined, even if Liza did win a Tony (one that probably would have went to Madeline Kahn if she hadn't been... troubled at that time).

DeNiro swept in, got Marty to stop spending his paychecks on Colombian Marching Powder, and they made Raging Bull together.

Liza's period between 1977 (which also saw her last studio album for 12 years) and Arthur in 1981 is... Well, she killed on The Muppet Show!

Too Drunk!

Studio 54 sucked a lot of people in and made them neglect their lives.

"Zeitgeist" means "the spirit of the age," so the Zeitgeist is by definition public, since it's shared with many people at the same time.

A "public zeitgeist" is therefore a redundancy.

She tried. she was up for Chicago and Evita.

Can you imagine Liza as Norma Rae??

r45 you are really overthinking things. But that's what Aspies are for, aren't they?

Now get obsessed with "rhetorical."

Tick tock.

😀😀😀

Drugs and irresponsibility, obviously. They’re not trusted. Until his breakdown, Charlie Sheen and Jiefer Sutherland were trusted because they would show up.

Just like the DLers who mourn that Kim Richards no longer has an acting career - spinning fantasies that her sisters or children could hire a sober coach and keep her under lock and key - it’s fantastical.

No one will put up with their shit if they are out of control addicts who make life a difficulty.

In everyone’s opinion, what was the last truly great project she was involved with?

Barbara Thorndyke's fingerprints are all over this thread...

R50 I’d say her collaborations with the Pet Shop Boys.

Arrested Development

I hated New York, New York. But she was good in Junie Moon.

I can’t believe she wasn’t at least tested for Ellen Ripley in Alien.

R47 Liza would have a sign that read HALSTON.

So r48, you realized you were wrong, and all you can do now is hurl childish personal insults.

Unimpressed.

r57 time for your meds.

The shut-ins who haven't been laid since the sailors left town after the Bicentennial celebrations litter these threads with their pedantic bullshit.

A simple "Oh, dear" will suffice. Then, we move on with our lives.

r59 they can't help themselves. The highlight of their lives were being hall monitors in elementary school in the middle of the last century and they just can't let go.

I didn't know one-room schoolhouses on the prairie had hallways, R60!

I think because she was such a large personality that films didn’t know what to do with her. Everything she did was, on a scale of 1-10, a 15.

I'm guessing a combination of:

1) the Oscar curse

2) poor choices and direction from her agent/management

3) substance abuse and mental illness. I say that with love. She probably still has scars from watching her mother self destruct and playing parent to younger siblings when she was just a child.

Liza's greatest performance came on HSN.

Liza blew everyone away with her early screen appearances. Charlie Bubbles; The Sterile Cuckoo (great performance); Tell Me That You Love Me, Junie Moon (not a hit, but she got some good reviews); Cabaret. I'm sure there was an element of jealousy since she was not only phenomenal herself, but was the daughter of Judy and Vincente Minnelli. As soon as she had a series of duds, people in Hollywood were probably secretly delighted.

And regardless of her range, she could really act, while her counterpart, Barbra, never was that great an actress.

John Simon deemed her performance in Charlie Bubbles as the least auspicious screen debut since Turhan Bey.

John Simon was an epic asshole.

As SPY Magazine once pointed out, John Simon had a long-running one-sided furious feud in his movie reviews with actresses "he doesn't consider as pretty as he is" (like Liza and Barbra).

I never found him witty... only cunty.

Agreed.

You do realise how gruelling making a movie is? Expecting LiZa to churn out product, is an insult to the sacrifices; emotional, physical and spiritual the performances she offers up willingly, demand.

John Simon was also racist. With the exception of Othello, he thought Shakespearean roles should only be played by white actors.

Again, he was an epic asshole.

She made a mistake in turning down Cinderella Liberty for a concert tour. Marsha Mason got an Oscar nomination for it.

R11, movies are an early morning call. Liza was not up and ready to go at that hour.

Two, drunk drugged or sober, Liza was not the take charge type. She most likely waited for roles to be given to her, she didn’t go out and get them so to speak.

Three, everything about Liza is weird, as has been pointed out. Her voice singing and speaking, her delivery singing or speaking, her looks from head to toe. What’s interesting on stage can be repellent on film. I can’t see her in Cinderella Liberty with JAMES CAAN for a second. Audiences would laugh her off the screen, R73.

Liza really did inherit all of her mother's talent. It's almost uncanny. You could never accuse her of being a "nepo baby." It's a shame she didn't reach her level of stardom. On the other hand she's lived long past the age her mother died so who knows what comparisons would be made if Judy lived to a comparable age. Maybe Judy's legendary status would have diminished. I wonder the same about Marilyn Monroe. Dying young can be great for your career, or at least your reputation.

MOST musical stars of the stage do not translate to movies. Liza was excellent in her first three, but it was downhill from there.

Since Streisand was brought up, this is the main difference between the two in movies - Streisand was a convincing romantic lead, Liza was not. Imagine Liza in a love scene with Omar Sharif or Robert Redford, I can’t. That’s a major part of being a movie actress. Musical or not a musical, Liza just couldn’t handle that part of a role on the screen. It’s just not in her. Then add in her substance abuse issues and you have someone they DON’T HIRE.

[quote] I would have been partying my ass off at Studio 54 as well.

IF you got in.

^^Oh honey, I would've gotten in! I was a hot piece of twink ass in my twenties.

[quote] What’s interesting on stage can be repellent on film. I can’t see her in Cinderella Liberty with JAMES CAAN for a second. Audiences would laugh her off the screen, [R73].

And yet she was OFFERED it. Because I guess the MAKERS of it did NOT think audiences would laugh her off the screen.

But you know better.

R79 and Bette Midler did Jinxed. Sometimes the audiences do know better.

Liza has always had zero appeal to straight male audiences.

R72, he would have fit right in here.

Aliensh!

Liza was offered Cinderella Liberty when Gavin MacLeod was the co-star

Drew Barrymore won the role of Gertie in ET over Liza after drinking her under the table pre-audition at a tapas bar in studio city.

She would have been great in Chicago when she was b eing considered for it. But her acting range is extremely limited.

[quote]You could never accuse her of being a "nepo baby." It's a shame she didn't reach her level of stardom

R75, let me guess, you're under 50. You and everyone else, Liza DID reach the highest level of stardom. She was a hot star and live performer and movie/TV star for five or six years, the same as most people. Has she died in 1978 wouldn't have made any difference. Her live shows continued and she made a bundle, but they weren't front and center after the 1970s. Don't cry for Liza, she did extraordinarily well.

My recollection is that Liza saved Chicago in its initial run on Broadway. The show was doing so-so business; Gwen Verdon conveniently got sick (a throat infection) for six weeks. Liza took over the role and put the show on a better financial footing. The show went to run for over 900 performances in that initial run.

By the time they got around to making the film version, Liza was too old.

I think pills and liquor had a big role in her cinematic demise.

Liza is a great star and often stars just have to play themselves; all the biggies did, from James Stewart, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood etc...it wasn't a problem..but its jatder for women. Goldie is always Goldie as was Whoopi and so on.... its often hard for the audience to let the icon disappear into a role. Liza was almost always this living legend. We dont wanna see Liza being nasty or evil or mocking. Similar with the supercalafragiliticly wonderful Dame Julie.

There are people who think the only time a performer is really a star is if they're a movie superstar. Doesn't matter what else they've done, according to the way these people think.

"Did you see Arthur 2?"

Liza made exactly the correct number of movies. My question is, why didn't other actors make fewer movies?

I always figured that she could not pass a medical exam to get a performance completion bond.

R90, that’s how Barbra thinks!

Lorna grabbed up all the roles.

Liza was better suited visually to become a kitchen cleaning product TV commercial spokesperson, or perhaps a regular castmember on “Space:1999.”

Shpache - the final frontier.

R89 = the James Stewart was a handsome stud troll

Once you’ve done The Muppet Show nothing else satisfies.

After Cabaret Liza had her choice of movies. She unwisely decided to resume her touring career and waited a year and a half before accepting a roll. Lucky lady was a bomb. Then she made a movie with her father called A Matter of Time that no one saw. By the time, New York New York came out. She was being promoted as a nostalgia act and no one was interested. Scorsese dressed her up to look like Judy Garland in the scene where she sang the title tune. This sort of negated Liza being her own person with her own persona, and she never recovered from it as far as the movies go.

[quote]waited a year and a half before accepting a roll.

OH, BOY

[quote]waited a year and a half before accepting a roll

Well with Joey shoving them in his face as fast as he could chew, can you blame her?

R100 here. Goddamn AutoCorrect. I need to check my work.

Liza never had her choice of movies, even after Cabaret because she was so hard to cast. She chose Lucky Lady as her followup which should tell you either what kind of movies were offered or what kind of judgement she has.

^ it was the doped up judgement

She was married to Jack Haley Jr at the time and he didn't help her either.

I absolutely loved her in Junie Moon. Under the right director I think she could have been a very good dramatic actress. She excelled at comedy ,why didnt she do more ?

[quote] Not in her wheelhouse, in the same way that Sissy Spacek could never hope to equal Liza’s pizzas on stage.

Well, after all, Liza is half Italian.

I’ve been to over 40 Liza Minnelli concerts and she never had pizza on stage r108.

R104 Apparently Gene Hackman and Burt Reynolds had the same impaired judgment. As well as John Hillerman, Robby Benson and Michael Hordern. I mean who would choose to be in a Stanley Donen comedy? It wasn't as if he ever made any good ones!

[quote]I’ve been to over 40 Liza Minnelli concerts

MARY!

R110, Yeah, like Bette Midler turned down The Fortune for her first movie. Warren Beatty, Jack Nicholson directed by Mike Nichols. You Liza Loons are really something else.

R122 is Lorna Luft

Could it simply be that Liza didn’t enjoy making movies?

R113 can see the future

Did any of you eldergays catch Liza in The Act?

The future is Lorna!

Her constant falling from her vertigo made her an on-set liability.

I saw The Act. 😬

I think she might be the patron saint of DL.

Her onetime manager Stevie Phillips addresses this in her book. Lucky Lady was a full three years after Cabaret, unheard of for a Best Actress winner of that era to have that kind of gap before a follow-up movie.

Phillips says Liza liked to party and she took the easy money: Vegas and concerts. And it's no accident that all three of those box office bombs (Lucky Lady, A Matter of Time, and New York, New York) are period movies. She should have played a contemporary woman in her follow-up.

I can imagine her in most of Streisand's earlier comedies like What's Up Doc? or Owl and the Pussycat.

She also could have played some of the kooky Paula Prentiss or Marsha Mason roles or even some of the roles Goldie Hawn played, right up through Foul Play.

I'm always happy to see Liza, in any performance.

She started working with clay

Judy died in 1969. Cabaret was 1972. Was Liza having to pay off Judy’s creditors as late as that?

If Liza had a top notch agent and had Judy’s worth ethic, could she have done Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore?

A Goldie Hawn comedy perhaps, but Liza could never be convincing in The Owl and the Pussycat, What’s up Doc or Alice Doesn’t Live Here. The former two were only made because of Streisand, so Liza wouldn’t have a shot anyway. Someone would have had to write a comedy for her like they did for Streisand. Where were these people? Why didn’t Liza take her film career more seriously? These are the correct questions to ask. R124, i don’t think that would have made any difference.

BTW I know Owl and the Pussycat was a play and not written for Streisand, she made the movie under her Ray Stark contract. Liza Minnelli was not a contender for the role.

[quote] If Liza had a top notch agent and had Judy’s worth ethic, could she have done Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore?

No. She’s wildly inappropriate casting for any naturalistic movie. Which I think is an important context for OP’s question . She became a movie star during the New Hollywood era. She was counterprogramming, but there still weren’t a ton of movies being made in the US that deployed the artifice required to suit Liza’s personality. And for those roles, she was competing with Barbra.

I wouldn’t have won an Oscar if Liza had done The Rose!

[QUOTE]She tried. she was up for Chicago and Evita.

I bet her Che Guevara would have been something to behold.

Aside from jokes, has anyone considered Liza’s reading skills? I get the impression that she’s not one to read long scripts and depends on others to do so. She depends on others to do everything else.

Ken Russell wanted to make Evita with Liza starring.

Bob fosse wanted to do Chicago with Goldie and her.

I think Liza was also in the running for Miss Hannigan in Annie and Cassie in A Chorus Line.

[quote]Ken Russell wanted to make Evita with Liza starring.

There were a lot of names being thrown around for Evita: Liza, Cher, Barbra, Meryl and, believe it or not, Bernadette Peters.

Fosse wanted to do Chicago with Madonna. Liza and Goldie were proposed but Fosse was not attached at that time. After he was considered a has been because of Star 80 and Big Deal, he wanted to do Chicago with a big star.

Liza was never in the running for Cassie in ACL. The other top contenders were Ann Reinking and Leslie Ann Warren. At a time, every name was going to be in ACL the movie including Travolta as Zach and Baryshnikov as Cassie and they were going to be gay lovers. I think Michael Jackson wanted to play Paul.

[quote]Liza and Goldie were proposed

Not only were they proposed, they campaigned and “auditioned” for it.

If Chicago had been made in the late 70s or early 80s Liza and Goldie would've been perfect. A shame that didn't happen.

Saying Liza was difficult to cast because of her looks is silly considering her oft-compared contemporary Barbra Streisand managed to make do quite well in the type of roles Liza could have shone in, but with a more homely face.

The camera loved Barbra's imperfections. Liza just looked dopey. The combination of those eyes, ski jump nose and blubbery lips were not appealing. Pauline Kael said her looks in Matter of Time were simian.

R135, Streisand could play a romantic lead, Liza could not.