Female songwriters who are more gifted than Taylor Swift

Courtney Love (sorry, bitches—Live Through This? Celebrity Skin? I know Courtney’s contributions were only partial, but still—Taylor could never write anything remotely that interesting).

OP I need a , here and a , there

Lady Gaga? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

She sucks.

Cyndi Lauper didn’t write her biggest hits. Next..

No joke, Halsey is more talented than Taylor.

Joni

Aretha

Madonna

Stevie

R4 Cyndi co-wrote time after time, which is a superior song to anything Taylor Swift has written.

R3 nowhere did I say that any of the women listed were great songwriters. The only requirement is that they be more talented than Taylor Swift. And lady Gaga does indeed meet that requirement.

R7 No, Lady Gaga is a shit songwriter.

Time After Time doesn’t have deep lyrics. Again, she didn’t write the vast majority of her hits. Which are few.

My Aunt Hildegard.

Swift is pussy shit.

All of them.

I think Joni Mitchell is he most articulate.

Um, Cyndi’s written a ton, including a Tony-winning best musical, the first woman to ever do so. The sexism of the music industry was intense in the 80s. The men in charge were loath to let a woman write but she did her thing. Girls Just Want to Have Fun, for example, was a vastly different song before she got a hold off it. She reinvented it as an anthem.

R12 She didn’t do shit on that song. Her Tony was in a weak year. She’s so ..overrated.

Haters gonna hate. See you at the Rock Hall induction next month!

R14 Where they let anyone in since 2012.

Beth Orton

Kristin Hersh

Amy Winehouse

Tracy Chapman

Siobhan Fahey

Sade Adu

Lissie. She’s so much better than Taylor Swift, it makes my head hurt.

I can’t hear you. I’m re-watching Sunday’s Grammy special honoring Cyndi’s career.

Not in English:

Angèle (Belgian singer-songwriter)

Indila (French singer-songwriter)

Shakira (the Spanish songs on her first two albums are better than anything Swift has written)

PJ Harvey

Lana del rey

Swift's promotional team is more talented than she is a singer.

I forgot to mention Sinead O Connor, Azalea Banks, Santigold, FKA Twigs, Joanna newsom, Carly Rae Jepson, grimes

Carole King

Yes, many songwriters are more gifted than Swift.

She’s sold more records than all of them combined

The worst pop lyric of all time still goes to Madonna with “I like to Sing-y sing-y sing-y like a bird on the wing-y wing-y wing-y”

Never forget that.

R25 Yes like McDonalds has sold the most burgers

And what’s your point r25? McDonalds has sold more meals than any Michelin rated restaurant. Old Navy has sold more cardigans than Chanel. There are more Hondas on the road than Jaguars. Popularity does not correlate with quality.

You beat me to it r27!

Madonna has some tough worst lyric competition from… Madonna with: “I don't like cities, but I like New York Other places make me feel like a dork.”

r12 Um, are you a 12yr old girl?

OP (and your countless replies) are you able to spend some time outside tomorrow?

R26 At least Madonna is fun.

What about Carly Simon? She had one song about Warren Beatty in which Mick Jagger is an uncredited backup singer; she had another song that people still remember because of a ketchup commercial from 50 years ago; she had another song that was a Bond theme. All of them are more memorable songs that anything Taylor Swift has done.

Also, no one has mentioned Liz Phair? who actually says the things about relationships that Taylor is too much of a prisspot to say?

R34 You're So Vain. Well produced.

As far as popularity I think Taylor benefited majorly from the Harry Potter and Twilight series both ending around the same time. All those fanatics for the absolutely mediocre needed a new idol to worship. She filled the void. If you did a Venn diagram it would be one huge circle.

Tarantino once said "George Clooney is not an actor, he's just a brand".

So I guess Taylor is the George Clooney of pop.

My opinion is Taylor has millions of fans now but she won’t have new fans. That’s the difference between a true legend and a poplar artist. You have seven your old kids born ten yeas after Michele Jackson died singing his songs. There will be no one rediscovering Taylor Swift’s music twenty years from now.

Oh lil monster dissing Madonna lyrics using the same lyric to make its case. There’s LOTS of terrible Lady Gaga lyrics you dumbfuck.

Lady Gaga could never write:

I know where beauty lives

I’ve seen it once

I know the warm she gives

The light that you could never see

It shines inside

You can’t take that

From me

A man can tell a thousand lies

I’ve learned my lesson well

Hope I live to tell

The secret I have learned

Till them it will burn inside of me

OP, this looks like one of the million "let's arbitrarily rank and compare women" threads from five years ago 😂

Its hard when the OP provides the entire list so there is nothing left to add.

I added Halsey above, and agree about Lana.

Tori Amos always.

And the rest are all there-

Pheobe Bridgers is a decent songwriter too, and one of her songs was near the Top of Rolling Stones Best Songs of the last 25 years

Yoko Ono

This Carly Simon erasure is something else. You people really need to get it together.

Neneh Cherry, Siouxsie Sioux, Kathleen Hanna, Kim Gordon.

How about Bobbie Gentry.

In addition to Carole King, the other Brill Building women Ellie Greenwich and Cynthia Weil.

Laura Nyro

Annie Lennox

Tracey Thorn

In all fairness R39, Madonna couldn't write that either. The lyric was probably "A man could tell a hundred lies" and she changed it to a thousand and put her name as the writer.

I would definitely add Robyn and Sia to the list, if they haven't been already.

Fuck it, for what she was paid to do and as catchy as her songs are, Keisha is a better writer.

And to add to R48, it's only when Madonna wasn't at the top of the heap and didn't have first right of refusal to all of the best songs commissioned by the industry did we get the brilliance of such lyrics as "If you don't like my attitude, then you can 'F' off / Just go to Texas, isn't there where they golf? and "Bitch I'm Madonna!" the sad stepchild to and attempt to capitalize off of the iconic "It's Britney Bitch."

R37 Taylor is an influencer. Women consume her products like Kylie Jenner or whoever’s makeup line.

The album sold 4 million copies in a week to shitty reviews and no lead single or teasers. And individuals bought it by the dozens.

That’s not music consumption, that’s brand consumption.

Lady Gaga is a shitty songwriter.

That’s why she has to explain all of her lyrics and also fabricate their meanings.

They’re dumb pop songs and she’ll make up a story about what it’s about. Like “Poker Face” is about bisexuality or whatever, it’s not.

51 Are you telling me there's no hidden deeper meaning to "Roma roma-ma, Gaga ooh la la"?

r51 Are you telling me there's no hidden deeper meaning to "Roma roma-ma, Gaga ooh la la"?

Hear, hear R51 - how are going to make a line like "Fu-Fu-Fu-Fu-Fu-Fuck her face," a line about bisexuality?

Few contemporary female songwriters can match Annie Clark’s gift for creating music of such fearless imagination and protean beauty.

I felt genuinely privileged to be in the audience for her BBC Proms performance with the Jules Buckley Orchestra last month.

No one could ever be as important an artist as you are, Courtney.

Taylor Could never...

We've all probably heard Call Your Girlfriend by Robyn a thousand times. But who in the hell other than her can write a love song from the perspective of the other woman telling her man how to breakup with his current girlfriend in a loving and caring way? Tell her this, don't tell her that... I love the genius and economy of the lyrics, how it captures a complete mood without having to narrate an entire story. It's a complex pop song and you just get it as well as feel it. But even with that you can just dance and enjoy it without listening to a single word.

Besides that, it's fucking great advice and I wonder how many people have used it to break up with someone.

Taylor Could Never Part 2...

And then to pair it up with Dancing on My Own told from the perspective of the spurned girlfriend stalking her ex. It captures that desperation and need to punish yourself by exposing yourself directly to the pain of it all. You can't help, you have to see it for yourself. You're still at the point where you haven't figured out the other person actually sucks and you're still blaming yourself, some fault of your own, for how it all ended. And maybe just maybe if you can get their attention, they'll take you back. Again, a complex, perfectly written pop song. You get it because we've all been there doing something stupid to get back at the person who hurt us, to show them what they lost - but they don't even see you.

Annie Clark and Carly Simon were two clear oversights. Brilliant choices--

I tend to agree that GaGa is NOT a great songwriter but a fucking talented artist overall.

There is no one on the original list I would remove- but I stand by Halsey.

Annie is in a song of Tori's- They are friends.

Underneath the stars above I said, "No, stop" I am not giving up on us And I am not going anywhere soon Annie, grab your bass guitar Help me bring in the October moon And you shout, run for cover I scream, rev the Triumph's engine You say baby we're too late From the cloud riders, no escape

Since everyone keeps bringing her up, Gaga has some of my favorite mainstream pop songs of the past fifteen years: Applause, Bad Romance, Judas, You and I, Shallow, Just Dance, Abracadabra, Rain on Me. (Oddly enough, I can't stand Poker Face.)

Don't know if she actually writes them or not, but I love those damn songs. I think Gaga has higher highs than Taylor. Obviously Taylor is a different stratosphere in terms of popularity. But I tend to love Gaga's hits.

I think for "singer songwriters" Taylor isn't even in the top 25. Phoebe Bridgers wipes the floor with her. As do the other boygenuis ladies. As do Liz Phair, PJ, Bjork, Mitzki, Kate Bush, Courtney Love, Fiona, Hayley Williams, Tori, Joni, Carole, and a million more I'm forgetting.

Janis Ian

Lucinda Williams

Melissa Manchester

All of them.

Aside from forgetting Carly Simon and Melissa Manchester, how can anyone forget DONNA SUMMER ? What a talent she was as a songwriter as well as a singer.

R49 You are truly the biggest dumb fuck in this whole thread. There was an entire book written about Madonna‘s strong musicality in songwriting written by highly respected rock journalist, Lucy O’Brien. In it dozens and dozens and dozens of the best musicians in songwriters in the record business say Madonna writes all her lyrics, solo wrote 5 of the 9 songs on her first album, and has a strong hand in writing the music and the melodies. They also say they put her in their league as one of the greatest songwriters of all time. You look like a fucking dumbass.

Ana Silvera, whom I'm still trying to make happen. Criminally underrated.

Bobbie gentry

Kim Carnes

Dory “I’ll Plant My Own Tree” Previn

Taylor Swift is a paragon of straight white mediocrity, and as such will remain a dominant force in American culture for decades to come.

Yes, R68, the woman who can’t play the piano or a guitar, or any other instrument composed all of her melodies. OK.

You saving up for a down payment on the Brooklyn bridge?

R1 Courtney Love is such a loser. A talented one but a loser nonetheless. The irony of calling someone, who has the number one movie in America right now, unimportant as you speak their name to Variety. Make it make sense. She’s always been a hater and thus never achieved the A list status that clearly wanted from the various moves she made in her career. With that being said, Celebrity Skin by Hole is an excellent album.

R73 All of that might be true. Though I think she is actually talented and has a handful of clever, better than average pop songs. People act like this girl isn’t selling a ton of records and breaking records. If the masses want white mediocrity give these cunts what they want. Show business is a business not a Peabody award ceremony.

What I hate are the middle brow white male actors they shove down our throats who make flop after flop until they eventually succeed. THAT is white mediocrity personified.

R13 is Declyn upset that his monthly allowance was reduced.

R76 I was talking about Madonna.

And R68 this is a demo of Nothing Fails by Jem Griffiths called silly thing. You tell me how much of it Madonna actually wrote? She changed “stepping stone” to “tree of life” and called it a day. But she has the head writer credit. How many of her “co-written” songs are exactly like this?

R74 you do realize melody is always first. Some songs melodies are even in contrast to the instrumental, especially in the rhythmic r&b and hip hop world. Playing various instruments definitely will make you a better song writer and thus better a crafting melodies but it’s not required. In fact the songs with the strongest melodies are often larger than the songs musical arrangement. That’s why they can usually be played on piano, guitar,etc. diverse array of instruments.

R79 my point is that Madonna plays no instruments. I am arguing r68 calling me “the biggest dumb fuck in the thread.” The idea that she is the mastermind behind the melodies AND the lyrics and that it’s just a team of elves who help organize her brilliant ideas into a song is ridiculous - especially when you see from Jem Griffiths demo that 90% of the lyrics and melody were already there.

Yes Madonna may have written her first album - which I strongly doubt as well. But lyrics like “ Something in the way you love me won't let me be / I don't want to be your prisoner / So baby, won't you set me free?” driven most by her brash in your face personality DO NOT equal “when I get lost in space I can return to this place, ‘cause you’re the one.”

And the idea that the woman who wrote Ray of Light is the same person who wrote the craptastic lyrics of her later albums is ridiculous too unless she hit her had on a rock when she fell off that horse.

R78 Actually, not many.

She primarily works with 1-2 producers an album her whole career and takes about 1-2 demo songs written by others and gets songwriting credit like any savvy artist.

Like you really think Shep Pettibone wrote the lyrics to “Erotica” album and Stuart Price wrote the lyrics on “Confessions on a Dance Floor”? I’m confused.

R80 Madonna plays instruments. She started out as a drummer.

Madonna is not a “pop star”. She is not Britney Spears or Rihanna. She was a ROCK performer in the 1970s before she transitioned into dance music because it was the new wave in the early 80’s.

She spent years writing songs ON the guitar and jamming songs with her bands Emmy and the Emmy’s and The Breakfast Club before she got signed.

Her lyrics and themes and songwriting haven’t changed since those days either. Maybe she’s gotten lyrically lazy in her 50s and 60s but to dismiss her songwriting career based on her 13th and 14th albums 30+ years into her career is illogical.

You’d never say this about Stevie Nicks who had way more talented musicians crafting from her demos.

R81 I can see how you can be confused. Yes I think Stuart Price including Benny Andersson; Björn Ulvaeus, Anders Bagge; Peer Åström; Mirwais Ahmadzai, Joe Henry, Christian Karlsson; Pontus Winnberg; Henrik Jonback (all credited writers on Confessions) wrote that album and Madonna added her voice to certain lyrics.

And that Shep Pettibone; Anthony Shimkin, André Betts mostly wrote Erotica along side Madonna adding a lyricism to her bag of rocks prose.

R80 I get what you’re saying. I don’t know why people do this with music though. Im not singling you out btw. You think Clint Eastwood’s old ass is still fully directing them movies. People only do this with music, particularly women in music. I have never seen on Reddit, social media, gossip at parties— that a man didn’t fully do whatever artistic claim he asserts. Never. She most certainly wrote or cowrote her first album if she is in the credits as doing so. She was a mafuckin nobody. They weren’t going to give her credit and thus royalties for some shit she didn’t do. That doesn’t make sense.

And another thing

There are enough rough demos throughout her entire career that show her songwriting process from recycling lyrics from scrapped songs to completely different early versions of songs - there’s a lot of evidence she writes.

And can’t say the same thing for a lot of artists either.

R82 Madonna wanted to be a star. I am not taking that away from her at all. She succeeded at that bigger than anyone else. But anyone coming up in NYC at the same time as her will tell you she used and stole and stole and used things from people more talented than her to become a star. She started out playing the drums, yes. But in a crap band that was no good. She may have strummed a guitar but she didn’t play the guitar - otherwise she wouldn’t have made such a big deal of it when she learned a couple of chords to play on stage later in her career.

Even Lady Gaga shaded her for these exact same reasons after constantly being compared to her by saying “I write all of my own music and I am a producer” going on to state she spends hours in the studio crafting her work and not JUST rehearsal for stage performances. That is the comparison she made between herself and Madonna.

R83 Those are all producers and you looked that up just now and have no idea about those people.

First of all, Madonna typically works with remix producers which means they are typically beat makers. Shep Pettibone doesn’t write lyrics and Andre Betts was a hip-hop producer who did LL Cool J’s “Mama Said Knock You Out”. You really think he wrote “Secret Garden”? That’s hilarious.

Same with Stuart Price and Bloodshy & Avant. They don’t write lyrics, they use other songwriters to create demos. For example, they got Cathy Dennis to write the lyrics and melody for Britney’s “Toxic” and Robyn for “Piece of Me”. Know why? Cause they don’t write lyrics.

Madonna couldn’t write her way out of a paper bag.

I agree with you R84, she wrote her first album. But look at the lyrics. They aren’t brilliant. It’s mostly about how she performed them. You can paint a straight line from those lyrics and that Madonna to the one we see today. The Ray of Light Madonna and the ones in between was a Madonna at her peak getting the best song writers, producers, engineers to carefully craft the version of herself she wanted to be.

R86 Lady Gaga is the lesser songwriter though.

Stephen Bray, Patrick Leonard, Guy Sigsworth, Stuart Price, most of her producers say she is very much a songwriter and a producer.

These guys were gifted but none of them understood how to craft pop music until they worked with her which is why a lot of them didn’t have many hits outside of working with her.

Which isn’t the case for producers who make hits and can actually craft pop music.

Unlike Gaga’s producers. RedOne had huge hits after Gaga cause he was most likely the one who made most of the song structures and arrangements.

Wyclef once said. Put Lauryn Hill in a room, by herself, full of instruments with a mic. And she will never ever be able to craft another Miseducation. 😆. That quoted aged like fine wine.

The Ray of Light sessions are on YouTube.

You can go there right now and here the raw tracks Madonna heard that convinced her to hire him as a producer.

They’re a fucking mess.

Madonna was the one who streamlined them, deconstructed them, polished them up, and made them into pop songs.

That’s not Rihanna and Britney Spears copying and singing a reference demo.

Even the demos of her hits that other songwriters wrote are online. “Crazy For You” and “Open Your Heart” are terrible. Again, Madonna took those songs and make them hits.

It takes a producer’s ear and brain to do those things.

Discrediting her is just ridiculous.

Here is an example of Madonna’s song writing gift:

Does Madonna get her lyrics at the same place most of us buy clothes?

It seems she does–at least for her new techno-influenced album, Ray of Light.

Those with a keen recollection of television advertising will notice the introductory lyrics to the song “Sky Fits Heaven”– credited on Ray of Light to Madonna and longtime collaborator Patrick Leonard– are gosh-darned similar to what poet Max Blagg recited for a 1993 Gap clothing commercial.

Here, look for yourself:

Madonna’s song:

“Sky fits heaven, so fly it/ That’s what the prophet said to me/ Child fits mother, so hold your baby tight/ That’s what my future could see…

Blagg’s poem: Sky fits heaven, so ride it/ Child fits mother, so hold your baby tight/ Lips fit mouth, so kiss them…

See what everybody’s talking about?

It’s a fairly hot topic in chat rooms. And in its April issue, Rolling Stone paid reference to this similarity in its review of the diva’s new album.

Meanwhile, the New York Daily News ran a story about the matter Thursday, reportedly getting Madonna’s record-label publicist at Warner Bros. to admit the singer paid Blagg in lieu of reprinting the album’s liner notes and crediting him.

R91 Sure did.

The MTV Unplugged album proved she had absolutely no musicality. She can write lyrics but she had NO ear, no skill in song structure or arrangements, or understanding anything beyond throwing up words.

R93 Is this the 90s?

I thought her taking that from the commercial was genius. She also added to it lyrically.

Did Kurt Cobain rip off Kathleen Hannah cause she wrote “Kurt smells like teen spirit” on his wall?

Like I don’t understand your logic.

R93 haha. Busted. And around that era Madonna was looking like a walking Gap ad. That was her at her most beautiful to me. Anyway, who cares. Yall need to remember the old adage—. Good artist copy. Great artist steal.

Many artist take lyrics from poets or other references. Hole’s “Plump” is an adaptation of Anne Sexton’s “The Lonely Masturbator”.

But Courtney is rock so that’s ok. Madonna is pop so whatever she does makes her a phony.

R92 I’m only discrediting her song writing ability and ability to create original melodies. I can’t speak to her producing abilities. She might be a master at reworking other people’s ideas. But she is not the great song writer people on here think she is.

R98 Producing is apart of songwriting.

Madonna’s melodies are pretty consistent. She writes in modal keys and usually stretches syllables over minor-major shifts.

And she also tends to repeat the same rhymes throughout her discography.

Hesitating / hesitate / anticipating / wait / waiting is her biggest offender and it’s all throughout her albums which shows she is writing lyrics cause it’s all from the same mind.

“MDNA”, and “Rebel Heart” are her shittiest albums because she was on auto-pilot. These were albums that were written and produced by other people and don’t sound like her, which also proves she had been writing her music all along aside from the credited songwriters from demos she chose.

And she also complained about it but they were contract albums through Interscope.

And the nerve of Gaga talking about Madonna when she’s directly copied from her musically.

Again, I am just defending myself from r68 who said:

[quote][R49] You are truly the biggest dumb fuck in this whole thread. There was an entire book written about Madonna‘s strong musicality in songwriting written by highly respected rock journalist, Lucy O’Brien.

Madonna is an Icon, a cultural phenomenon and there will never be another like her. She can be all of that without having to be the Poet Laureate of Pop Music as well - especially when it is proven time and time again her most profound lyrics did not originate from her. Changing "stepping stone" to "tree of life" or adding "That's what the prophet said to me," to a song does not a great songwriter make.

The proof is in the pudding. As her career diminished, so did the quality of her lyrics, offering us some of the cringiest songs possible like on Madam X - when she no longer had the pick of the litter of top tier demos or could no longer just quietly pay of actual writers for their work and take all the credit.

and R92 I watched those sessions when they originally aired. But to think they were not carefully crafted to paint Madonna as the consummate singer, songwriter, artist to sell an album would be silly. She did everything possible with that album to win Album of the Year. It didn't pay off. Maybe she should have done a country album.

Who is this Madonna can’t write troll. You and Patti need to go on a date at a fried chicken restaurant. Then once the check comes and you pay it, go directly to the kitchen. Find the most sizzling grill, douse yourself with grease and jump on it. Two cunts in the most epic grease fire.

R103 writes like Madonna.

I trust songwriters,(people who create music for themselves and others), implicitly when it comes to their take of the music industry. They tend to be the grunts working their way through every level and tend to be the people most taken advantage of. They are the literal unsung heroes whose work allows others to shine. Sometimes they get credited other times they sell their rights completely just to get their work produced by someone famous. And sometimes their work is just straight up stolen.

Lady Gaga is one of these songwriters, having written music for Britney Spears, The Backstreet Boys and the Pussycat Dolls among others. For her to specifically point out that a major difference between her and Madonna is that she writes ALL of her own music tells me all I need to know. Coming from the bottom of that industry, she would know the stories about Madonna and know the truth.

Ingrid Chavez wrote Justify My Love and had it stolen by Lenny Kravitz and Madonna. Well not stolen, she was young and naive and sold it for $500. Madonna at the time even said SHE wrote the song about her ex husband Sean Penn. Chavez sued both to them and got writing credit and royalties from it. But again, all of you who think Madonna is holed in a room with a composition book scribbling away, are sadly mistaken.

Interesting take on Taylor Swift and her popularity.

R102 What do you mean watched those sessions when they aired?

I’m talking about the actual raw music tracks of William Orbit before Madonna got to them.

They’re a mess.

R106 That was more of a Lenny Kravitz issue than a Madonna issue. He was having an affair with Ingrid and secretly wanted to pay her so his wife wouldn’t find out.

Madonna would have given her credit.

Your logic falls apart because Madonna doesn’t hide songwriters. She didn’t write “Like a Virgin”, “Material Girl”, or “Holiday”. There’s a bunch.

The songs where she’s accused of “changing the lyrics”, the demos show that the whole song was changed around and Madonna was probably behind it, thus making her a co-writer.

Again, you’re accusing of her of standard industry practices .

John Lennon and Paul McCartney were credited to writing songs that they not only didn’t write in The Beatles but songs they hated the other person writing.

R108, I thought you were referring to that "Doc" MTV aired with Madonna in the Studio talking about the making of Ray of Light in 1997. I watched those. Anyway, I was not talking about her producing cred. That I don't know. I am talking about her actual songwriting skill.

Never got into Lana Del Rey.

R109 Madonna literally said she wrote the song about her ex-husband Sean Penn. She didn't write the song. The song was already written. Lenny gave her an already written song to perform and she sang it and said she wrote it. She didn't ask where the song came from, or who wrote it. Ingrid had to sue for credit because none was given to her. It just shows you that Madonna was used to lying about her writing ability and was used to taking credit for work that wasn't hers. It was second nature to her. The truth of it's origination or credit other than her didn't matter to her.

I gotta vote for my 90s lesbians Tracy Chapman and Amy/Emily of the Indigo Girls.

R111 one thing I do love about Lana Del Rey is that you hear her voice, her own point of view, in all of her songs. You can tell they sprang from her brain because certain themes are repeated or revisited in her music over different albums and you can see her growth. I don't see her every just taking someone else's song and tweaking it to make it hers. If she has a co-writer it is a definite collaboration of them trying to hone her ideas making them more cogent, melodic. And I'll always give her credit for calling out Harvey Winestein and Georgina in her music way before anyone was really saying anything about him.

Harvey's in the sky with diamonds and he's making me crazy / (I come alive, alive) / All he wants to do is party with his pretty baby / Come on, baby, let's ride / We can escape to the great sunshine / I know your wife and she wouldn't mind / We made it out to the other side

I strongly suspect that Sandra Bernhard wrote parts of the sex book for her.

R112 Where did she say this? I’ve never heard that in my life.

Again, JML was a Lenny Kravitz issue, not a Madonna.

And who’s writing the lyrics again?

If it’s just her and a remixer, you’re saying a bunch of women write songs with these guys and Madonna steals them all?

Like I’m confused. Wouldn’t there be more lawsuits lol

Charlotte Caffey and Jane Wiedlin of the Go-Go's are incredibly talented. They are very prolific and wrote successful songs for Jewel and Keith Urban, as well as being constantly prolific over the past almost 50 years! Hard to believe but true.

OMG I sent that dumbfuck Madonna hater into an absolute death spiral! Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Listen DUMBFUCK, an ENTIRE book was written by respected ROCK journalist Lucy O’Brien where DOZENS and DOZENS of the greatest songwriters of all time say Madonna is in THEIR league, dumbfuck. They cite SPECIFIC evidence and the “copying” shit is covered. The original songwriters of Open Your Heart said Madonna COMPLETELY changed the song and it was a MUCH better song after.

You have a lot of BS to say but not a lot of receipts except from right wing rag sources. You cherry pick a lyric or two as proof. Listen DUMBFUCK, Lady Gaga is a SHIT songwriter. The bitch completely lost her hits after RedOne left her ass so you wanna talk about proof of someone surrounding themselves with the best for hits? There’s your proof. The cunt had ZERO solo hits after he left her.

Going back to the Lucy O’Brien book. Musicians and songwriters who have written worked with a who’s who of singers all say Madonna is a GIFTED musician (who plays piano, keyboard, guitar, drums) and songwriter. Again, they put her in THEIR league. Patrick Leonard has said Madonna wrote songs IN FRONT OF HIM FROM SCRATCH two of them being Live To Tell and Like A Prayer. Nile Rogers said they’d ask Madonna for a bridge or a middle eight and she’d give them something brilliant every time. A direct quote. He also says she is one of the greatest songwriters of all time.

I love how you were probably SHOCKED she SOLO wrote 5 of the 9 songs on her debut, so you said the songs weren’t deep or something. Yet, the album has only gained more and more acclaim as the years go by.

You are fucking deranged and not only a dumbfuck, and yes the biggest dumbfuck on this site. You’ve embarrassed yourself.

Here are just a few (and I can bring A LOT more receipts, dumbfuck) of what some have to say about Madonna’s songwriting.

Patrick Leonard Madonna's long-time co-writer and co-producer on some of her most acclaimed albums, such as Like a Prayer and Ray of Light, has praised her talent and hands-on approach. In 2013, Leonard told Showbiz411, "She's very, very talented... She always showed up and she was always completely involved". He added that Madonna would often help refine the music he brought her and supply the lyrics, describing their collaboration as one where "one doesn't exist without the other".

Michael Stipe (R.E.M.) The lead singer of R.E.M. has publicly expressed his admiration for Madonna's writing. A 2022 post on Reddit's Madonna community cites Michael Stipe saying, "I've always really admired [Madonna] as a lyricist and artist".

Barry Manilow, who did an entire podcast on Madonna said, “She’s absolutely one of the greatest songwriters of all time. She’s a genius. Her voice is also very underrated.”

David Foster, who has written for some of the most legendary singers of all time said, “I’ve worked with a lot of singers who want a producer credit, but Madonna was the only one who earned one.”

Here is just one of the videos of Patrick Leonard talking about Madonna’s songwriting abilities:

Jesus, Vadgestan/R119, do you have to make EVERY fucking thread that's not about Vadge ABOUT Vadge?!

And, yes, Lady Gaga is a better songwriter. She can actually sing, plays instruments (having been classically trained in piano), and reads music. Gaga is a REAL musician.

R120 yes, she’s “better” with no solo hits for 14 years!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 You’re the only one who thinks she’s better. Her voice sucks, too. Generic American Idol.

R119 I haven’t made it through your entire essay but didnt Gaga have the number one pop song of last year. Not to mention the songs from a ASIB were hits. Gaga’s persona got bigger than her too fast. It was overkill her amount of spectacle.

R117, scroll up and re-read. Your questions are answered above. Sounds like you need a V8....

Anyone who says Gaga can’t sing while hyping up Madonna must be trolling or smoking crack. Like come on. Gaga is one of the best vocalists in contemporary pop. No she’s no Queen Bey(who is on some once in generation shit) but that girl can sing. She is a better singer than Adele to me, to be honest. She just isn’t known for a bunch of showy big ballads.

R119 = Lucy O'Brein checking for any recent sales on Amazon...

R122 Do you know what the term SOLO means, dumbfuck?

R124 No, Lady Gaga uses so much autotune it’s unreal. Her voice is nothing special and very generic. Deal with it.

Yes, R124, R119 is a whack job. Yes, Madonna is a regular Aretha Franklin...

R127 Most people love that vocal, even critics you dumbfuck. Pretty good for a completely untrained singer. Now, find the vocal demo she layed down for Ray of Light for comparison you dumbfuck autistic nitwit. You’ll see some powerful vocals. Are you afraid to?

Joni for the win.

Just read her lyrics to “Marcie” from her first album.

[quote]Now, find the vocal demo she layed down for Ray of Light for comparison you dumbfuck autistic nitwit.

Madonna doesn't use autotune at all... uh, huh. It sounds like she's trying to make contact from the other side.

R130 You DUMBFUCK autotune wasn’t around in 1998. Those affects are around her raw voice and THAT isn’t the raw vocal demo where you hear her LISTENING to the music with her headphones and speaking to one of the producers after stopping saying she messed up.

R126 Bitch I was responding to your psychotic dissertation on r119 not your re-up on r121. Gaga may have used autotune from time to time for artistic effect but she can sing song. We’ve seen it with our very eyes on live award ceremonies throughout her entire career. She can do the damn thing with the vocals. I love Madge but outside of some early 90s performances in complete controlled environments with the safest instincts a singer can take at each note, Madonna cannot sing like that. She had an intoxicating, seductive voice in the 80s and 90s but she just isn’t a great vocalist. It ain’t bad, it just is. She’s a performer first. A high performance artist who sings, well these days 👄 sings.