I'm Tired of People Being "100% Pro Israel" or "100% Pro Palestine"

Yes, it's complex.

Netanyahu and Hamas are the same. They're both manipulators of their people.

Thanks for letting us know that you're tired of it. We were wondering.

I agree, OP. Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state. The Palestinians have a right to their own homeland. October 7 was a horrific, terrorist act. Israel is conducting an unjust war.

It's complex.

But Trump’s gonna fix it, so chill, OP.

BonniePC, expect another time-out for trying to be reasonable.

R6 what do you mean?

Nothing against you op /r7. Perhaps you should expect a time-out as well. Not from me.

Some years ago, I decided to try to do some research online and see what I could learn about the history of the region.

I searched and searched and searched, but I found absolutely nothing that was unbiased from which I could actually learn.

To this day, I still don't understand the history of this conflict. '

Where were you looking, R9?

Saying that the conflict is “complex,” though, suggests that no one can ever take a position because they can’t possibly know enough to do so. But I don’t need to have a detailed understanding of the past. I don’t need to know who fired the first shot. What I do know is that nothing will ever resolve itself as long as the U.S. keeps pumping billions of dollars in both military and non-military aid (and private “charitable” donations) into Israel. If Israel had to pay for everything itself things would be very different.

OP- Are you also tired of people like me who are

100% we’ll hung TOPS 🍆

Maybe the world needs to acknowledge that both sides, just like our own MAGA, are exploiting their people's deep-seated need to have an enemy to hate. Nothing will be solved as long as we keep taking sides. Both sides are horrible and need to be dealt with like the problem children they are, i.e. learn to get along OR ELSE.

I mean, I understand where you're coming from, OP, and we have to be pragmatic here -- Palestinians aren't going anywhere, Israelis aren't going anywhere. Both sides need to own that and figure out a solution.

But by the same token, would you have been both-siding things in Apartheid-era South Africa if we were having this conversation 40 years ago?

Would you be both-siding things if White Christian Supremacists annexed Puerto Rico, established a new nation, violently expelled most of the non-White, non-Christian residents and placed the remaining non-White, non-Christian residents into an unquestionable second-class citizenship?

I'm just glad it's on the other side of the planet.

In the modern world, killing civilians by the thousands in wartime is always wrong.

It’s a peace prize. A good prize. I said, but why Nobel? It should be the Noble Peace Prize. Many people are telling me that. They say, hey Donald, the name doesn’t make any sense. Many noble people have gotten it, except for Obama. O-ba-ma. That was a fake win, probably bought, I don’t know. But my deal for Israel is a good one. I said, Benjamin, you gotta take this deal. It’s not a good look if you don’t. You have to want peace, because that’s all there is. Then we can rebuild Gaza better than ever. The people, they don’t have to stay. It’s good if they stay, but they have to go along with my plan to rebuild. We need to make Gaza a place people want to go to. Ga-za. Everybody wins.

R17, is that real? If not, it's an excellent representation of Trump's rambling nature.

I agree completely with you, OP.... with just one caveat.

Too often, "well... it's complicated" is used as a pass, a permission slip to not think about it further and to not take any position at all. Foreign policy is complicated. The economy is complicated. Immigration is complicated. Politics itself is complicated. Etc.

[quote]What I do know is that nothing will ever resolve itself as long as the U.S. keeps pumping billions of dollars in both military and non-military aid (and private “charitable” donations) into Israel. If Israel had to pay for everything itself things would be very different.

The US uses Israel as a proxy to keep Islamic terrorist entities in check. Allegedly.

R20, if that were the pan, it didn't work out so well on 9/11.

I’m not even reading OP’s post but I will say that the zero-sum game that most people use today is what got us here in the first place

The problem for Americans is that the US funds Israel. So everything Israel does carries the tacit imprimatur of the US government.

[quote] Saying that the conflict is “complex,” though, suggests that no one can ever take a position because they can’t possibly know enough to do so.

It suggests absolutely nothing of the sort.

Asserting that is the way a child would approach the matter, with simple black-and-white thinking.

I'm 100% against Netanyahu who is a corrupt disgusting POS. And he is holding hands with Putin. He and Trump have a lot of similarities. Both greedy, egotistical narcissistic. Netanyahu is smarter and more cunning.

Invaders and invaded, land thieves, ethnic cleansers, mass murders and their victims, can't we all just get along

Netanyahu has played Trump like a fiddle. Dance, Donald, Dance!

[quote][R20], if that were the pan, it didn't work out so well on 9/11.

9/11 happened because of that incompetent cunt Condoleeza Rice who ignored all the intelligence.

I like the concept of percentage of blame. I do believe Israel has bargained in bad faith and they hold 80 percent of the blame. As the victims of Nazis which they like to bring up at every opportunity one would think they would have some capacity for empathy and reflect on that situation but nope.

They have been fighting in that part of the world for literally thousands of years, it's not going to change. Not until mankind itself dies out. Regardless of faith, ethnicity, political beliefs, if I lived there the first thing I would do is move out. Far far away. It's like living in a family where your mother and father are at each other's throat every day. At some point, this War of the Roses win at all costs shtick gets old.

Germany should take a bigger role in finding a solution, seeing as they’re the reason Israel needed to be created in the first place.

I’m tired of people being 100% French Resistance or 100% Nazi. It’s a complex situation, both the French and the Nazis had a right to defend themselves from aggression.

Ehud Barak was the only Israeli Prime Minister who actually did anything to work something out with Palestine.

That’s a myth, r33. Barak’s performance at Camp David was kabuki.

If you’re really interested in knowing what the actual offer was, read Seth Ackerman’s thorough debunking of the “generous offer” here:

I often wonder if we might be in a very different place now if that extremist Zionist hadn't assassinated Rabin. Perhaps not. Perhaps Netanyahu and his alliance of far right extremists would still have risen to power after Rabin, but that mad man robbed us of any chance of knowing if Rabin could have moved us closer to a real two state solution.

I think the next President after Dump (if we have another election) should just totally be hands off. How many US presidents have tried and failed to help that situation. Bush, Clinton, Obama, Bush2, Dump, Biden and Dump again. Time to cut your losses, know when to fold em. That means also stop sending billions of US dollar to Israel to "protect democracy". They are a rich, intelligent, productive country. Let them stand on their own and maybe just maybe they will figure it out when they are forced to fish or cut bait.