Russia and China

You're a complete idiot.

R1, are you triggered?

Stick to discussing Harry Potter, R1. That seems like it's more your level.

Please, OP.

There is much in Russian culture -- even under the Soviets -- to appreciate. Tarkovsky? Bulgakov? Rachmaninoff? Shostakovich? Kozintsev?

Sviridov is one of my favorite composers. Just sublime. He's not as well-known outside of Russia, though.

Forgot to add: Akhmatova? Eisenstein? Vertov? I could go on.

R4, Rachmaninoff's peak was decidedly pre-Soviet and, surprise of all surprises, he had to flee to the U.S. He did not die in Mother Russia. He died in Beverly Hills, California.

That seems to be a recurring trend with Russia -- a tendency to persecute their gays, their educated, their artists -- which probably explains their massive brain-drain today.

R4 these are all Stalinist 20th century at best. The post was about current times. And China?

The Stravinskys, even Diaghilevs etc moved to Paris asap

China does contribute cheaply-manufactured plastic shit and shoddy engineering, so I guess that counts as something?

China now has more scientific publications and they are about to scoop up all of our scientists now that the scientific infrastructure in the US is being destroyed.

I have quite a few friends in mainland China. They agree. The state of art, especially music in China, is terrible. The public often makes fun of themselves for how shitty their music industry is, some netizens even claiming the Chinese must lack a gene for understanding rhythms. As far as movies and everything else, my friends state the obvious reason - it's impossible to make good art when the censors will meddle in every little thing. They tend to overreact and over apply restrictions because underdoing it would land them in big trouble. Moreover, the censorship extends far beyond political sensitivities. It can't be seen to promote what they consider degenerate in any way, it needs to conform to certain aesthetic or functional standards that make it "traditionally Chinese" and so on. It's impossible.

Saying they've contributed nothing to tech and all that is wild though, OP seems racist

[quote] they are about to scoop up all of our scientists now that the scientific infrastructure in the US is being destroyed.

They're the Texas of Asia, in other words. They neither invent, solve, nor innovate. They can only hope to steal and poach from others.

R11, go cry to the Reddit mod.

They aren’t stealing if they recruit the unemployed or keep their own folks who are no longer going to get H1B visas.

R13 Discoveries by the Five-hundred-meter Aperture Spherical radio Telescope (FAST). Construction completed at China Space Station, Discoveries of common genes in corn and rice to improve yields, Discovery of metallic behaviors in a bosonic high-temperature superconductor, Artificial synthesis of glucose and fatty acids from CO2, Hydrogen generation technology to electrolyze seawater without desalination, etc...

Meanwhile Russell Vought plans to take a sledgehammer to US telescopes

[quote] China Space Station

Good luck to them. What shoddy, cost-spending corners are they cutting, as is their way?

R7, Russia has been skating on a hey-day reputation of fine literature, ballet, classical music, etc. which essentially expired in the 19th century and which is no longer relevant to their current culture, current populace, or geopolitical station.

OP, you're not educationally nor intellectually grounded in the fields of which you speak to make such declarations, obviously.

The horror of totalitarian governments, such as we in the US are now facing, is, indeed, a willful suppression of the freedoms and creativity upon which real progress depends.

You show no knowledge of such areas as the literature, film, music, and dance achieved through its artists in the USSR, some of which being made possible through official supported. The Soviets managed great strides in space technology, landing on Venus and sending the first manned spacecraft up. China since the revolution has made enormous technological advances, not all stolen from the West, and its artists manage to thrive despite the challenges to free thought and speech. And these comments are just superficial. Again, you know nothing.

To condemn any people because of their unfortunate timing and location of existence is ridiculous. If you're an American ("cinema" makes on wonder) you'd better be ready to defend your silly premise from within your own wasteland of hate and control.

Director Chloé Zhao does not count either btw. She's the spoilt rich-kid of a party oligarch crook who bought her way out to Europe and US to pursue her vanity-project (talentless) career. She only got the Oscar because China is the biggest future for the studios and gaming. She didn't comment on censorship / racial editing and ethnic cleansing in her acceptance. It's alright for her!

[quote] You show no knowledge of such areas as the literature, film, music, and dance achieved through its artists in the USSR,

Please do enlighten me about the great and tremendous contributions Russia has made to literature, film, music, dance, cuisine, or philanthropy post-Bolshevik Revolution.

OP, go back to Branson.

We have made SOME impact, OP.

R22, you got me mixed up. Branson LOVES Russia.

Hey Moron R1, I'm still awaiting your deep analysis of how Russia is really not like the House of Slytherin, they're more like Gryffindor.

The ignorance and provincialism of the DL know no limits.

R26, do prove us wrong.

China is giving us Shen Yun.

I blocked OP and 2/3 of the thread went POOF!

R29, just like your sex life.

Hilarious how so many posters here ignored the last question of whether they would like to live in a world controlled by Russia/China.

Perhaps they do? Maybe their presumably gay asses belong somewhere like Vladivostok or Chongqing?

Russia had all the great steroids to make Olympic gymnasts lol.

R32, Russia has also contributed tremendous whores. Some of the best and most easily-mailable women on earth.

OP has overstated his case, but it is true that Russia and China have remarkably low cultural influence on the rest of the world. As does India.

What is interesting to me is how much of American cultural relevance comes from our minorities—African Americans in the case of music and Jews in the case of Hollywood.

Cultural mix and openness are essential to creativity and to international appeal.

R33: If you just slap an Amazon Prime QR code on their pussy, they're ready to go!

They ain't nothin' compared to the USA! I mean, come on, we got VEGAS!!

[quote] OP seems racist

How odd to be deemed 'racist' when I'm complimenting Japanese and Korean cultures (who are presumably the same race as the Chinese).

"Ethnic"-ist might be more the term that you're looking for.

R36, I thought you people did Macau instead?

Let's see, in the 20th century the Soviets produced as writers:

*Boris Pasternak

*Maxim Gorky

*Anna Ahkmatova

*Boris Strugotsky

*Vladimir Mayakofsky

*Mikhail Bulgakov

*Andrei Platonov

*Yevgeny Yevtushenko

*Mikhail Shhokolov

*Vasily Grossman

And as composers:

*Dmitri Shostakovich

*Sergei Prokofiev

*Aram Khachaturian

*Rodion Shchedrin

*Sergei Vasilenko

*Ivan Dzherzhinsky

Gee, that seems pretty impressive to me.

R39, who?

R39, none of these names ring a bell.

Jina!

They're the loser countries of Asia.

The rest of the world loves Japanese technology, anime, video games, etc.

Korean culture is now huge with boy/girl bands, TV dramas, cuisine.

WTF does China contribute?

R39: you don't seem to know the difference between dead and alive.

If you are talking about now - no, culture is dead in Russia. Putin killed the artistic impulse, plain and simple. Perhaps after he's gone, the survivors will find long-hidden manuscripts of Tolstoy-level novels, attics filled with a new style of painting that invigorates contemporary art, suitcases filled with undeveloped film. But right, nothing earth shattering is happening.

China is doing much better in the decorative arts and architecture. Truly incredible buildings, bridges, interior decoration, but the public arts - there was a brief "false spring" in 90s, but all is conformist now.

Both cultures invest in the traditional forms - such as folklore dancing, ballet, symphonies, etc. They are safe politically. But, I'm afraid Moscow isn't calling.

By-the-by Putin is in middle of another purge. Whether due to paranoia and nipping a nascent palace coup, Putin is cleaning up is close friends and allies.

I wonder who will die first: Trump or Putin?

You're going to have a long disappointing 21st century OP

Unless we get WW3. Then a short disappointing one

R48, neither China nor Russia will ever be "in charge."

What a sad and pathetic defense of Russia and China's cultural contributions to the 21st Century.

I honestly expected a better-mounted defense...

China is contributing a lot to science, technology, literature, and movies.

Chinese cinema and movies are growing significantly. Several huge book series were written by Chinese authors, such as The Three Body Problem by Cixin Liu. They've made a series out of it on Netflix which hit #1 on their platform.

Where do you think all the modern fabrication and tech manufacturing is done? Developing the high tech necessary to go from 10nm to 3nm processes took a huge leap. Intel designed the chip, but it was the manufacturers who developed the necessary high tech manufacturing processes to build them.

R51, I tried watching some "Chinese" movies. They're absolute shit.

I wouldn't say the same about Korean or Japanese TV/film though.

Anything by Zhang Yimou is well worth the watch, particularly his early films.

Lots of extraordinary Chinese directors, both from the mainland, Taiwan or HK.

Honestly this is a stupid thread. Ignorant jingoism isn't a good look for Americans

R53, it's true though. For being the world's most populous nation (or 2nd-most now; thank you India!) China contributes absolutely nothing in terms of modern cultural influence.

Russia killed or ran off 90% of its intelligentsia by 1930. Of course theres no real cultural growth. Remember those videos of captured russian soldiers when the war with Ukraine started ? What struck me most was the look of blank stupidity most of them had. Or those videos of Russian street children. Positively heartbreaking . The Russians may very well be worse of now than they ever were under Nicky .

Come back in 50 or 100 years and they will be asking what has the USA contributed since the 20th century ended. We’re coasting now but as we withdraw and alienate from the rest of the world American cultural influence will diminish as time goes on.

It's their home, OP. Plain and simple as that.

[quote] Russia killed or ran off 90% of its intelligentsia by 1930.

This should be the first sentence every time Russia is mentioned!

[quote] [R39]: you don't seem to know the difference between dead and alive.

perhaps you can point to me where the OP insisted the artists have to be alive in his original post.

China contributed COVID

R39 is once again using 19th and early 20th century examples.

Now tell us about anyone since 1970 - you know - the past 55 years.

As someone above said very well - Russia has been skating on their historical greats from previous centuries for far too long.

They haven't provided hardly anyone of note in decades.

[quote] They haven't provided hardly anyone of note in decades.

They've given the modern world polonium tea and defenestration.

Rusher, Zhinah and Shaudi Arabia!

[quote]Please do enlighten me about the great and tremendous contributions Russia has made to literature, film, music, dance, cuisine, or philanthropy post-Bolshevik Revolution.

Er, R21, almost all feature films that exist in the world were made post-Bolshevik Revolution (1917). So that would be Russia's entire contribution to the genre, from Eisenstein (Battleship Potemkin) through Bondarchuk (War & Peace)--both buried in Moscow, BTW--to Tarkovsky (Andrei Rublev, Solaris) and Zviyagintsev (Leviathan).

R39 has covered literature well, but left out Solzhenitsyn. R41, you must think "culture" = Marvel v DC. Anyone with any knowledge of world literature knows most of those names and has read at least three or four of them. Fine, it's not mandatory to have knowledge of world literature, but it would be good if you knew enough to shut up on subjects you demonstrably know nothing about. (A sentiment the whole world holds towards the louder species of American.)

In food, the "European" honey-cake, which if you're gay you should have had with brunch because it's very In with the cafe crowd, is actually from the court of Catherine the Great. It was re-popularised more recently by the Astoria in St Petersburg, which has a world-famous pastry chef. It was known everywhere as Russian honey-cake until Ukraine happened. Russian blinis with caviar, sour cream and an accompanying chilled vodka has been a staple appetiser/finger-food in upmarket western kitchens since forever.

Anyone interested on the subject (in reference to Arts and Culture, not Science ans Technology) should read The Third Reich in Power, by Richard Evans. It has a long chapter covering all the arts: literature, music, cinema, painting, sculpture, etc. It is a dire but fascinating read (with even some funny moments, as the success of the Degenerate Art exhibitions). In just a few years the Nazis killed off an existing and exuberant artistic life. Now imagine the effects of an authoritarian regime that goes on for decades….

Conversely, the state of some of the more traditional arts in the 21st Century even in democratic countries is far from healthy, and not for political reasons.

R53 - you beat me to it mentioning Zhang Yimou, one of my favorite filmmakers.

To Live is certainly one of the greatest films of the 20th century