It's time for a Third Party in this country

No thanks.

Third party always helps republicans

Stealth pro-GOP thread. Punch and delete.

Speaking of which: Didn't Elon Musk found a new party? Or did he drop that once the new meds started working?

R2 Historically third parties have taken away votes from Democrat candidates, because they are not a monolithic group like the Republicans.

Maybe MAGA will peel off

OP, you are setting up a false dichotomy. The guiding principle of the Democratic party is not that of protecting trans people. The fact that you say it is suggests you are much further right than the middle ground you claim for yourself.

Rather Dems understand that democracy must protect the rights of all people (the relatively small number of trans people included) or rights aren’t assured for ANY of us, which is what we are learning right now.Stop exaggerating and internaizing Republican talking points. Like it or not we are a two party system, Americans instinctively consider a ‘majority rules’ election to be the only fair one, fracturing votes doesn’t work in a non-parliamentary system.

The problem is that one of our two parties has been taken over by white christian nationalists who sincerely believe democracy, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are diametrically opposed to the theological/patriarchal oligarchy they are busily putting into place. They are acting in bad faith, dismantling the federal government in favor of Strict Daddy Christianity.

Those of us opposed to this must vote Democratic in every election for the foreseeable future. PERIOD.

I think OP is a computer bot. It sounds like a dollar store LLM not a person.

(Being straight and drunk leads to a better life??? Even our confused and drunk foreign trolls aren’t stupid enough to type that.)

It's very easy to look at the least effective Democrats among them, and the ones who simply will not retire, and think that a whole new party would be better. I can't come up with a name. The 'Know Somethings?' 'Progressive' just sounds like soup or car insurance.

OP, this is the biggest crock I've ever read on DL.

Trans! Trans! Trans!

[quote]But now with the Democrats believing that trans- people are more important than the rest of us

What a load of hysterical right-wing, Fox News talking point horseshit OP. Get a fucking grip on reality.

I went through the entire Democratic Party policy platform for the 2024 election (linked below) and there is not one mention of trans people in the entire 92 page party platform document. Not even once. So just cut the crap.

Nothing is more important than the trans issue!!! I don’t care if my sister spends the rest of her life delivering rape babies and my marriage is annulled by the government as long as we nip the trans movement in the bud.

The transes are eating the cats! The transes are eating the dogs!

It's time to remove Trump from office. He's deranged and getting worse.

r6, never. third party always helps the GOP

The fact that so many of you believe that I am a right wing bot only shows the limited way that the media has invaded your thought about having a third party. Second one of the reasons that Trump took a state like Pennsylvania was by drowning the television with anti- trans messages. Sorry but the Republicans win because they go after the easy bigotry in al Americans. So let Democrats support everyone. They will be the Whig party soon enough. And let the cultist keep pushing Trump's agenda. We will have a new goose step by Christmas. Unless enough American see that neither party really gives a damn about their day in and day out lives we are at the mercy of what ever comes down the pike. Being American will be as valuable as a German citizen in 1944.

You will need to dramatically overhaul your electoral system first, otherwise a third party will never have a chance at power. Thats what we did here in NZ, went from First Past the Post to Mixed Member Proportional, and while it isnt perfect its way better than what we had before

Wont happen under the Republicans, improving democracy isnt really on brand for them these days

OP, I don’t think that you are a right wing bot. I believe you are a dollar store LLM. Maybe ShatGpT2?

I am all for a third oarty as long as it is in all 50 states and on every local ballot. Not just done extra oarty for federal elections. Then we would have converted to a parliamentary lite firm of government.

But, no .

We are probably going to need a 3rd party for all the moderate democrats and moderate republicans (never Trumpers) very soon.

Multi-party systems only work in parliamentary governments. And, you have to have more than three parties for it to really work because people are naturally going to consider themselves Conservative or Liberal. Unless the third party is very much established as solidly middle, it's a crapshoot. A leans right party pulls from the Conservatives and leans left pulls from the Liberals.

A third party will just help Trump stay in power.

Yes lets have the tranny democrats and the anti-tranny democrats and split the votes so republicans win everything! Brilliant!

Third party aides the GOP

The ranked choice voting system is a good idea each person gets three votes. This would create the possibility of more parties. As it is team R and D have a monopoly on the system. Delivering donors interests to themselves by accepting bribes also known as campaign contributions. Congress isn’t going to allow the change needed for a ranked choice system though as they are milking the cow perfectly dry as it is.

Interestingly, OP has only two posts, both on this thread. Hmmm.....

R26, our Electoral College demands only two parties. Our entire electoral process makes sure there can be only two viable parties. You’d have to amend the constitution to make a multi-party system workable, at least on a national scale.

OP, I’ve heard that since I started voting - in 1974.

[quote] never. third party always helps the GOP

Ummm

The Democrats are our only hope of getting out of this shitstorm.

[quote] Yes lets have the tranny democrats and the anti-tranny democrats and split the votes so republicans win everything!

This is a losing nationally political issue for Democrats. It's not the dresses. It's the MEN in the dresses and their behavior constantly dragging gay men down. I'm not voting for any Democrat who parades the trans around the White House and puts them ahead of Gay Men and Lesbians. [bold] That Democrat wants to lose. [/bold] That's their decision. If you have the mindset that MEN in DRESSES are more valuable to you than gay men---that's fine. I will not be voting for you. Not Kamala. Not Pete. Not Gavin..

Stop the tranny bullshit. It's all about Second class citizenship. Second class citizenship is modern slavery., and that is why Plantation Republicans love culture ears.

^^^WARS

[quote] The fact that so many of you believe that I am a right wing bot

I don't think you're a rightwing bot, I think your brain has been consumed by the rightwing media virus.

the GOP LOVES third party in general elections

"If you can convince the gayest white man he's better than every transexual, he won't notice you're planning to beat his ass, too. Hell, give him somebody to feel more masculine than, and he'll present hole to you."

r28

[quote]our Electoral College demands only two parties.

Excerpt from Article II, Section 1, of the U.S. Constitution (passage concerning the Electoral College):

[italic]Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.[/italic]

[italic]The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.[/italic]

[italic]The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.[/italic]

Where does it say anything about "only two parties"? In point of fact, the entire Constitution says nothing about political parties. If you mean that the mechanism of the Electoral College only works when there are just two parties, please explain.

R38, there can be more than two viable parties, but that would just throw the Presidential election to Congress.

not THIS congress

R38. Not too bright, are you?

And I want paragraphs in long posts.

We all don't get what we want, OP.

I'm trans critical, too, OP, but you actually think that the left only cares about trans? How fucking stupid.

And even if they did (and they don't), you think that's on equal terms with the scary-as-shit authoritarianism that has now taken over?

Get the fuck out of here.

This OP seems like another tiresome angle on “The Trans is to blame, it’s all about The Trans, Democrats must reject The Trans, ”… this time dressed up as “I want a third party.”

I did not join in F&F’ing the OP but can understand why others did.

There’s a potentially rich conversation to be had about whether or not America’s deeply entrenched two-party system is so powerful that it will never change… or whether conditions are actually ripening for a new born-from-Independents centrist party to emerge.

But this probably won’t be that thread.

More on the question of “could a centrist 3rd party arise like Elon Musk said he wanted?” (… and if the richest person on the planet is the one asking for it, that suggests a certain and warped agenda from the get-go)

This Georgetown political history prof walks us through the question pretty well.

People forget that Clinton was only elected because of a third party candidate (Ross Perot). Perot took enough Republican votes to cost Bush the election. We don't need another party. We need Democratic candidates who will stop attaching themselves to losing issues.

R46, it’s interesting to look at that map and notice the changes since 1992. It now seems unthinkable that a Democrat could win Missouri, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia.

It is not at all a “slam-dunk case” that Ross Perot caused Bill Clinton to win. Clinton beat Bush by 6-7 points nationally and exit polling showed Perot pulling votes almost equally from disgruntled D and R voters.

R46. I didn’t.

[bold]Side by side comparison between 1992 and 2024. We've lost so many states. [/bold] Sad. Weak Democratic leaders and the GOP openly stealing SCOTUS seats and gerrymandering. We don't get this back. I really think the GOP is going to elect a real hardcore MAGA in 2028---and a lot of them want the guy who is running ICE. Unless Trump refuses to step aside and "wins" a third term.

Without the Electoral College being overhauled or abolished (which isn't going to happen), we don't have much chance anymore. We are just being held hostage by the MAGA.

It may be slow-going, but a supermajority in the Senate is the only way to American Restoration.

[quote]it’s interesting to look at that map and notice the changes since 1992. It now seems unthinkable that a Democrat could win Missouri, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia.

But it also becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. Democrats make no effort to win in those states. It would require old-fashioned convincing people to vote for you. However, that would require Democrats to make some changes, but that's impossible since the Democratic Party has become the most dogmatic party possibly ever in the U.S.

Republicans are able to make even major shifts, like moving from free trade advocacy to protectionism. They dropped (or at least put on the back burner) the full repeal of Obamacare. Democrats won't a budge or compromise a bit on controversial issues. We've seen even on such tiny issues as bio men in women's sports that Democrats collectively treat that as more sacrosanct than Republicans do the Ten Commandments. It's crazy as time passes that Democrats are becoming even more locked in and less willing to accept compromise or dissent. That's not going to go well politically over the long-term.

[quite] Democrats to make some changes, but that's impossible since the Democratic Party has become the most dogmatic party possibly ever in the U.S.

What idiocy. The south is gone because of the fading of racist post-civil war allegiances and the passage of the civil rights act. It’s automatically going to be hard for a rationalist civil rights party to appeal to these kinds of states, which, unfortunately, have excessive importance because of the electoral college.

[quote] Republicans are able to make even major shifts, like moving from free trade advocacy to protectionism. They dropped (or at least put on the back burner) the full repeal of Obamacare

Hats. You shouldn’t have revealed your partisanship so nakedly. Abandoning the attacks on Obamacare wasn’t a sign of flexibility. It was a sign that their bluff was called. Republicans opposed Obamacare solely because it was an Obama achievement. They constantly promised they could achieve the same results as Obamacare under a different, less intrusive approach. Except they couldn’t name in ten what they alternative would be. Literally. Because there was no alternative to Obamacare that was less intrusive.

Obamacare was me of the most widely beneficial and necessary policy change in decades. Replacing it with nothing was never going to be an option. It’s not called flexibility. It’s called being caught with your pants down and forcing a hasty retreat.

And, of course, it’s stupid to compare the vast broad baed harm repealing Obamacare would cause and the generally inconsequential trans policies.

Lastly, to call the absolutely moronic and disastrous trade policies Trump instituted as flexibility rather than self-destructive populism hatched by a moron is ridiculous