Shits fired at Mormon church!!

Those white underpants soiled!

Oh, no, the MormonBoyz!

Let me take a wild guess. The shooter was a member of the congregation, white straight cis male, from a Second Amendment worshipping, Trump-voting family. But all we're going to hear about are how trans drag queen Antifa liberals are at war with God and America.

I saw a picture allegedly from the scene of a Chevy pickup truck driving into the building, with two giant American flags standing up in the bed.

He might be some right-wing nut who didn't think Mormons were the "right kind" of Christians.

Press conference coming up at 1pm.

What will the FBI say the shooter wrote on the bullets this time?

"Coffee or bust!"

"No garments, no guilt."

"Sundays are for brunch."

"Zion is overrated."

Plans for my new ballroom at the White House are going great, it's going to be so beautiful...

Gotta love that Second Amendment.

BUT MAH FREEDUMBS SAID I CAN SHOOT UP A CHERRCH!

[quote] He might be some right-wing nut who didn't think Mormons were the "right kind" of Christians.

Actually, he might be retaliating against Mormons because Tyler Robinson and his family are Mormons.

You know, the whole Charlie Kirk thing.

Can we have the old crappy America back?

That's nothing.

So far this weekend in Chicago:

"4 dead, 9 shot in Chicago weekend shootings, police say"

(and the weekend's not over yet)

And last weekend:

"Chicago weekend shootings leave 4 dead, 22 shot ..."

(The ages of the victims range from 8 to 64 )

Ten to one those victims were black or possibly Latino, r12.

Something tells me that people who trot out Chicago's homicide rate at times like these really don't give a shit about those victims.

Grand Blanc is 100% Trump country.

I just saw live footage of the burning church. There are going to be more casualties.

r12, go back to Twitter with you tacist shit, please.

[quote]Ten to one those victims were black or possibly Latino

My guess would be 100%

The perpetrators too.

[quote]The shooter was a member of the congregation, white straight cis male, from a Second Amendment worshipping, Trump-voting family.

A congregant/witness interviewed at OP's link didn't recognize the gunman. It sounds like he hit the church with his truck, which drew people outside to help, and opened fire. If this wasn't a domestic situation turned deadly or a church-related conflict, R10's theory that it's a deranged act of vigilantism could be right.

"Let me take a wild guess. The shooter was a member of the congregation, white straight cis male, from a Second Amendment worshipping, Trump-voting family. But all we're going to hear about are how trans drag queen Antifa liberals are at war with God and America."

We're on it, bitches.

How long before the FBI “finds” inscribed bullets implicating Dems?

Hope that preppy Mormon kid from Extra wasn't there. It would be a shame if anything happened to him. But if it did, tune in to Access on Monday for all the tea!

White male strikes again.

Me too, R18.

It was probably a fellow Mormon. Someone was cheating with their wives or some shit.

Very sad, but it's not a church, it's a cult trap.

If they paid taxes, I’d care more.

Did ZCMI turn him down for a credit card?

Was it the Zizians, in a Rivian, doing things disapproved by Vivian?

Army vet, link via Drudge

Detroit Free Press: Three dead so far, including the shooter, and several others are reportedly in critical condition.

r28 he looks nice

Good lord he looks deranged. So many of these nuts execute these attacks knowing they’re not coming out alive. It reminds of the old suicide bomber stories you heard about from out of the Middle East. They referred to those people as terrorists. And these white American men are not?

🎵 Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose!

It was inevitable. The Christian Nationalists are going to war with each other.

The alleged shooter seems to have dealt with quite a few major stressors in recent years. There rumors he had PTSD and he and his wife were in the news several times in 2015 and 2016 because of their child's serious illness and the cost of his care. Glancing at family social media that hasn't been locked down yet, there were continued concerns about the son's health during the pandemic.

[quote] the cost of his care

But that only happens in backward countries...

Why Mormons? That’s a head scratcher.

R12 was an already blocked racist. Glad he didn't disappoint me.

[quote]Why Mormons? That’s a head scratcher.

Conspiracy theory stuff, maybe, if he's anything like his mother, a retiree who has posted quite a bit about Charlie Kirk's death and was going to read books about the JFK assassination in her search for answers.

more like a ball or ass scratcher if you had to wear that undewear.

I agree with someone upthread, I think he targeted the Mormons because the Charlie Kirk shooter is Mormon. He wanted to avenge Charlie for Widder Kirk

Our family home is on McCandlish Road. Grand Blanc is, indeed, Trump country and Burton, where the shooter lived, is the shithole of Genesee County (and that is saying something!). I'm sure it is full of rabid MAGAts. My parents had an eighty-acre farm down the road from that church. I am glad they are not here to see how this country has devolved. My mom, thankfully, was gone before Trump's first round. My dad survived most of Trump's first term and detested him!

MORONI!!!!

The shooter looks like he’s from Alabama.

Jesus Saves!

The Chicago statistics for this weekend at R12 has been updated.

It's now "14 Shot, 4 Killed In Deadly Wave Of Gun Violence"

14 shot.

Has Mitt Romney released a statement? Or, how about Terry Rakolta? Terry is the Michigan Mormon housefrau who tried to get Married with Children cancelled.

Chicago population..2. 6 million. population of Grand Blanc around 8,000. I can’t do math but if you were worried about getting murdered this weekend, Grand Blanc was the wrong choice.

Hello. My name is Elder Price and I would like to share with you the most amazing book.

Did you know that Jesus lived here in the USA?

r43, in Michigan, once you get outside the greater Detroit area, you're basically in Kentucky.

Some recent Facebook posts from the shooter's very outspoken mom, who has posted at least 36 times about Charlie Kirk since September 11th.

"Boy times have changed!! This is a problem today!! NO ONE cares about family,Friends or neighbors!! SAD society we live in!!! ME ME ME world!! Feel SORRY for our children & Grands !! The Family Circle is BROKEN!!!"

On Tyler Robinson: "More to this assassin than we know!!"

On James Comey: "He needs to ROT in HELL!!"

On social media, where she was extremely active: "My opinion/ Social Media is killing America!"

Despite this, she seems to live on social media and thrive on conflict, seeking it out in, for example, the comments section on LGBTQ-related posts by local Democratic candidates (like Chris Swanson) on Facebook. I won't link, so as not to encourage harassment. She's easy to find, though.

[quote] The shooter looks like he’s from Alabama.

I remember seeing picture online of Gretchen Whitmer visiting some rural area in Michigan. The people pictured with her looked like southern white trash. Whitmer somehow with her heavily botoxed face looked like a beauty queen compared to the other people in the pic.

I would like to give a penny for mom's thoughts now.

I think mom is going to quiet down for a while. I don't care who you are, when your kid does something like this, it's hard to survive the gut punch. It's one of the unluckiest clubs to be a member of.

Oh please, some people are just bad parents and it sounds like his mother is one of them. The only gut punch is it's not going to bring the kind of social media attention she was seeking.

He likes killing things for sport apparently.

2 years ago there was some sort of story post about that town but made me start following their local Facebook group for Grand Blanc even though I don't live or have any ties to that area. . The posts and replies on there are often insane and I just assumed that whole town is full of crazy people. Sometimes I'm not certain if I'm looking at some sort of a cheerical account cuz some of these people are completely unreal. I happened to be looking at Facebook this morning and seeing posts asking why there were so many fire trucks and police cars in the area and then slowly it unfolded us to what happened in about 20 minutes later it was picked up nationally.

So many MAGAts posting online that it can't be one of them attacking a Christian church. Anyone can buy flags and put them on a truck. It's just the left trying to make the right look violent.

Wow.

Do they really believe that shit?

MAGA’s identity is that they are 100% blameless. When they are to blame, the cognitive dissonance almost immediately finds someone else to blame. You would be hard pressed to find an exception, including the 2020 election results.

Brantlee?

R20, they are simply following the example of their spiritual leader, Donald "it's never my fault" Trump.

[quote]So many MAGAts posting online that it can't be one of them attacking a Christian church. Anyone can buy flags and put them on a truck. It's just the left trying to make the right look violent.

Some also immediately claimed that the gunman was a liberal with a "Stop Trump" sign on his property, even as their own photo showed two separate signs: an old traffic sign and a newer Trump/Vance campaign sign. That went nowhere since there were quickly rumors that authorities were already aware of social media posts demonstrating decidedly illiberal beliefs.

Will Trump order flags to half staff?

This is all the fault of femi-Nazis and neo-liberal socialist communists.

Jesus. I just learned that the shooter's dad rode our school bus when I was in high school. He was a nice kid back then, kind of gentle and shy and I always felt a little sorry for him. Sounds like he has been infected with Trumpitis in recent years. Ugh.

I bet the Mormons were helping him out with his sick kid and then pulled the plug on their charity which sent the GI Cabbage Patch into a tailspin

That's a good theory, r66. LDS runs employment workshops and employment resource centers that help with resume writing, interview prep, job searches, etc. They're free to members and non-members alike. Maybe he had contact through this? Unemployment may have been one of his recent stressor and by the looks of the two pictures I've seen of him, he looks marginally employable. Developed a resentment when they couldn't help him any further.

Another example of it doesn't matter to me until it affects me directly:

[Quote] Jason Miller, another nearby resident, said something has to change.

[Quote] "It's troubling. A mile from home, you know? It's obviously getting closer to us, right?" Miller said. "So when it starts getting close, you're not just looking at the TV screen saying, 'I feel bad. What's going on?' It's here now, and that's why we got to do something. It's getting to be a problem."

Getting to be a problem? There's been an ongoing epidemic of mass shootings in America for years and years, and old Jason here says now that it has touched his community, it's a problem that needs attention. Fuck you, Jason.

Texas Man BUSTED By FBI After Revenge Pride Event Shooting Accusations Blow Up

Christofascist

It's those trans libruls at the shooting range, radicalizing our boys!

Was he from Gabon?

Unemployment and PTSD don't make you ram a truck through the doors of a place of worship in mid-service, open fire, set the building on fire and then have a shootout with law enforcement. He was just one more sadistic homicidal asshole and wanted to go out with a bang.

Number of deceased victims is now four plus gunman. There still may be more dead in burned church building.

[Quote] Michigan State Police have been responding to additional bomb threats at different locations in the community, an official said at a news conference tonight.

[Quote] Some of those threats were at churches and were cleared by state police, MSP spokeswoman Lt. Kim Vetter said.

Last night, another Iraq War veteran, Nigel Edge, shot up a bar in North Carolina, killing 3 persons and injuring 5. Edge had a traumatic brain injury on active duty and also had PTSD.

Trans, r75?

Of course, r76

My heartland hierarchy from having lived there but not having grown up there: Michiganders look down on Ohioans who look down on Indianians who look down on Kentuckians who look down on West Virginians.

[quote] An online image of Sanford’s home shows a 2016 “Trump” political sign on the fence, above a sign.

[quote]Voting records do not indicate how Sanford voted but he has voted in every November election since 2016, Mark Grebner, a Democratic consultant who collects voter and petition data, told Bridge.

We can make an educated guess.

[quote]Sanford did sign two recent petitions, Grebner said, one for the so-called Unlock Michigan efforts to repeal the governor’s pandemic emergency powers and another supporting Right to Life Michigan’s efforts to restrict abortion in the state.

It was the TRANSTAPO again!!!!

Someone needs to investigate if the common thread in assassination attempts and mass shootings is video games. Not just the violence itself, but subliminal messages tucked into them.

He wore a “Make Liberals Cry Again” shirt:

[quote]THIS EPIDEMIC OF VIOLENCE IN OUR COUNTRY MUST END, IMMEDIATELY!

This doesn't entirely accord with the author's previous boast in front of a roaring crowd that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue with absolute impunity.

His rage at the Antifa Radical Movement (ARM) pushed him to the edge. Sad!!

How did the fire get so big so fast that victims were trapped? Planning, I guess? How could their building be such kindling?

All three branches of government and the continuing rollout of the authoritarian MAGA wet dream of King Donald Trump and STILL these clowns are so angry and violent they’re taking it out on their own kind. What will it take for them to be content? This guy should have been over the moon.

Thoughts & prayers. It’s too soon to discuss gun control. Thoughts & prayers is all I can say.

[quote]What will it take for them to be content?

It's odd indeed - Trump insists that America is in a golden age. It's almost as if people mysteriously feel a disjunct between such a claim and the actual facts of their lives.

"Thomas Jacob Sanford and his family didn’t just post about Trump and MAGA on their Facebook — they went to rallies and demonstrated."

There were like four mass shootings yesterday in the US - welcome to Trump’s America

[quote]I think mom is going to quiet down for a while. I don't care who you are, when your kid does something like this, it's hard to survive the gut punch. It's one of the unluckiest clubs to be a member of.

Indeed, her Facebook account disappeared late yesterday afternoon. His dad's account, which wasn't as public but still makes his politics clear, is still up. Sanford's wife also still has public Facebook posts, including one from Biden's presidency with a pro-Trump hashtag.

Sanford's parents are fixated on the irrational belief that Christianity is under constant attack in America (see link to one of his dad's favorite films). How they'll reconcile that with their son's murderous attack on a church without falling deeper into paranoia and denial is anyone's guess.

I recently reconnected with a MAGA type, largely out of guilt for how he was bullied in grade school. His half-charitable take was that Christians should not cheer this on, even though Mormons follow false doctrine. They don’t see Mormons as Christian.

We talk about it and theorize, often repeating the same opinions or posting the same things. Meanwhile, someone somewhere is plotting another attack…

Video games?? ::Insert "Sure, Jan" meme here::

As R92 said many Christians don't consider Mormons to be Christians. I saw stuff like this play out in my extended family. My mom had a first cousin who was an Evangelical Christian. One of my cousin's daughters became Mormon after marrying a guy from a LDS church. My Evangelical cousin was ok with in the beginning, some years later, the daughter and her husband cut off contact with her. My Evangelical cousin would constantly trash Mormons on Facebook and other social media platforms. She would often tell my mom and other relatives that she was going to file for grandparents' rights to see her grandkids in hopes of getting them away from the LDS church. My cousin and her daughter never reconciled. The Evangelical cousin died in 2018. Some of my church members from my cousin's church would trash the Mormon daughter on social media. It was a very sad and awful thing to witness, and my mom reached out to the daughter and the daughter is in regular contact with my mom and other relatives.

If this is about religion, then wow. The words "Jesus Christ" are in the Mormon church's name.

Even if these bible thumpers don't consider mormons to be christians, it seems that they have more in common with Mormons than they would with Jewish or Muslim people. Seems like the Mormons could be their allies in their war against atheists and Muslims (and homosexuals and feminists).

One of the reasons the US founders specified religious neutrality in government is that England has a long, horrific history of CHRISTIAN ON CHRISTIAN religious persecution and civil war. The idea that all the Christian sects in America can get together and govern peaceably in the name of "Christian Nationalism" flies in the face of the fanatical hostility that Christian sects have for one another.

[quote] Michiganders look down on Ohioans who look down on Indianians

R78, People from the state of Indiana are not called Indianians, they are called Hoosiers.

Latest articles I have seen have said that the police are trying to figure what the motive was. The theory upthread about the LDS church helping and his family and then withdrawing help might be a good one or the other theory that he targeted the LDS church because the Charlie Kirk shooter is Mormon is possible.

At the Charlie Kirk memorial, Erica Kirk said she forgives the shooter and Trump said he hates his enemies and doesn't wish them well. The shooter may have been inspired by Trump's words and then started to see Mormons as enemies because of their own took out Kirk.

Is this the first salvo of Evangelical on Mormon violence?

The arson was a nice callback to the Klan.

How is this act not categorized as domestic terrorism?

This story has all but disappeared on my news feeds from Yahoo and MSN, I guess when it isn't a liberal or someone they can paint as a liberal there is no point in pushing the story. Magas killing Magas just isn't something they want to highlight.

[quote]What will the FBI say the shooter wrote on the bullets this time?

"Blacks Rule."

Speaking of domestic terrorism... wasn't this 22-year-old supposed to be in charge of preventing it? Has anyone seen or heard from him since he was hired?

And people in the St. Louis area have long referred to uncouth, low class people as Hoosiers no matter where they are from. I guess if you’re in St. Louis you’ve got to go over a state to find someone to look down on.

[quote] I guess if you’re in St. Louis you’ve got to go over a state to find someone to look down on.

Yet all they have to do is look down and they find Arkansas.

So where is the screaming and braying from Fox and other right-wing commentators about how the shooter was a deranged right-winger? and denouncing his violence? I hear nothing so far.

Trump fan, gun fan, hunter, angry at the world.

Just another day in America.

Most likely full-on trump loving magat, just like the last one a few days ago. But the orange shit wad will blame it on the radical left........

Thoughts and Prayers.

They’re going to call this a false flag and blame Mossad.

R78 Everybody looks down on WV. I have family that lives there . You want to see real poverty drive thru that state sometime. One of my cousins (who we used to call retard Ranger cause hes so fucking stupid) is actually a cop there. In the grand tradition on DL of making all subjects about cocks,I did meet a guy at a motel I was staying at in Keyser who had a HUGE dick and fucked me senseless ! Yes,he was missing a few teeth but damn if he wasnt tall and slim with a great body and of course that baby arm for a dick . The next few days my hole was so sore I about couldnt stand it.

Will there be a memorial cookie offering at Crumbl?

I read that he had a trump sign in his yard. Quelle surprise.

From the Detroit Free-Press:

[quote]When Burton City Council candidate Kris Johns heard that someone shot churchgoers and burned down the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on Sept. 28 in nearby Grand Blanc, he said not once did he think it was the man he spoke to while canvassing less than a week prior who went on a tirade against the church and described Mormons as "the antichrist."

[quote]The man was outgoing, polite, and "extremely friendly," Johns said. And his animosity toward the church didn't seem violent, he said — “it was very much standard anti-LDS talking points that you would find on YouTube, TikTok, Facebook.”

[quote]Then they got into Sanford's life story, Johns said of their conversation that lasted no more than 20 minutes.

There's much more at the link. Sanford's conversational style was somewhat manic that day but not overtly political despite the Trump sign on his property. He asked for the candidate's position on the second amendment, they talked about their faith and their kids' health challenges, and Sanford segued into his service in Iraq and previous struggles with addiction.

The subject Sanford was the most animated about was the evils of Mormonism. He mentioned a stint spent living in Utah and a former girlfriend whose family was Mormon. Sanford and his wife were together for 10 years or longer and this would've predated that. Incidentally, despite Sanford's possible religious motives for the attack, his family's beloved president called the shooting "yet another targeted attack on Christians."

Since it's a race to define who/what radicalized him, can we agree it must've been his religion and Trump? I'm not seeing him hanging out with many liberals or atheists.

Hello. Would you like to change religions? I have a free book written by Jesus!

I recall as a kid having Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons showing up to our door to spread the word, and having the misfortune to have my Greek Orthodox mother who knew bible scripture backward and forward to read them the riot act on how fake their religious sects are, and go into specifics why, and they would leave each time with the tails between their legs.

My grandmother would just tell them she was Catholic and they'd go away. I guess they figured Catholics were too far gone to even reach.

Sadly, that tactic no longer works.

I don’t give two shots, OP

It is Southern Baptist inc vs Mormon inc.

The battle of the billionaire Jesus incorporations.

The founding fathers never anticipated that the larger churches would bloat into cash heavy corporations capable of purchasing a political party.

[quote]My grandmother would just tell them she was Catholic and they'd go away.

A possibly apocryphal family story about one of my aunts:

Evangelical at her door: "Have you been born again?"

Aunt D: "Oh, we're Catholic, we get it right the first time."

HA r122!

[quote]In the grand tradition on DL of making all subjects about cocks,I did meet a guy at a motel I was staying at in Keyser who had a HUGE dick and fucked me senseless ! Yes,he was missing a few teeth but damn if he wasnt tall and slim with a great body and of course that baby arm for a dick . The next few days my hole was so sore I about couldnt stand it.

Are you Momma?

Are you Momma with a bruised Mussy?

Attacking a church and murdering churchgoers doesn’t exactly seem on-brand for the MAGA crowd. I’m so confused.

My pussy hurts and stinks!

R126, Mormons aren't Christians.

It IS confusing, R126.

The MAGA crowd is not smart enough to know WHO they are mad at.

[quote]Mormons aren't Christians.

Aren't they? They do have "Jesus Christ" in their name.

[quote]The MAGA crowd is not smart enough to know WHO they are mad at.

Christian sects came together to fight the godless liberals. Now that Trump has put them back in a position of cultural dominance – did you see his executive order last week declaring "anti-Christianity" as an animating principle of domestic terrorism? – the sects are reverting back to their animus toward each other. I know people who were completely disowned by their families for marrying into the "wrong religion," even though they were all traditional forms of Christianity.

There we go at r128.

Also there are more evangelicals than Roman Catholics, but the evangelicals are all split into competing sects, each of which have far less followers than the RC Church.

R130 to Mormons believe in the Marvel Jesus, thank you Neil Gaiman, where Gif the Father is an immortal man with a wife and Lucifer and the angels are the children of this union. Jesus is another brother.

Mormonism is as much Christianity as is the Marvel Universe is real science.

Allen I know about Mormons I learned from South Park.

All I know, lol.

Update on Sanford's family. This is condensed from a longer article at the link (which goes around the WaPo paywall). The tl;dr is that Mormons have raised almost $300k and counting for Sanford's wife and son, who has an expensive medical condition:

[quote]Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were in deep grief after a gunman ambushed a worship service in Michigan on Sunday, killing four people and wounding eight others.

[quote]They started fundraisers for the victims. Then they did something remarkable: They began donating money to the wife and son of Thomas Jacob Sanford, the man who police say carried out the attack.

[quote]“Sanford leaves behind a wife and children who must be grieving. They will face financial hardship and psychological trauma as a result of this week’s horrifying events,” reads the GiveSendGo page, which was started Tuesday by Dave Butler, a member of the Latter-day Saints who said he doesn’t have a connection to the Sanfords or to Grand Blanc, where the shooting happened.

[quote]“The Epistle of James says that we should care for the widows and orphans,” Butler told The Washington Post. “I wanted to make sure that we were taking care of them, and thousands of people, it turns out, agree with me.”

[quote]Sanford’s father said in a text that he was grateful for the fundraiser. “Our family is grieving so much right now, I can’t find any words to express our appreciation but the right time will eventually come, thank you so much.”

Whatever shit the so called "real" Christians give Mormons for being weirdo apostates, they're the only Jesus freaks I ever see consistently upholding the actual principles of Christianity, at least insofar as tolerance, compassion, and basic human decency.

(Quakers and Unitarians seem a very decent bunch too, but I don't count them as "Jesus freaks" so much as "Jesus fans". )

R137, a 10% tithe buys a lot if subservience, and it masquerades as tolerance, compassion, and basic human decency.

It is a fraud magnified by the many Stepford type movies.

Unitarians are Deists, which means they don't believe Christ was a supernatural being. A substantial cohort of America's founders were Deists.

R139 Yes, like Judaism and Islam, Unitarianism is truly monotheistic, and like modern Quakerism, it is non-creedal. That's why I merely called them "Jesus fans".

So was I right in that the charity didn't go thru with him or what(

[quote]So was I right in that the charity didn't go thru with him or what(

He didn't have a financial dispute with the church and there's no evidence his family previously received (or sought) support from it. This current fundraiser was launched because Mormons immediately started fundraising for his victims and recognized the ways in which his own family belonged to that group.

But did he start a war between the Slave Owning Jesus Churches and Mormon Inc?

The shooter watched too many episodes of American Primevie. It depicts Mormons when they first came to Utah including Brigham Young. Pretty violent, not the white washed Mitt Romney types you imagine.

It wasn't me! I was in Oregon!