Why do poor immigrants want to come to USA anyway?

Better question I’ve been asking since the 1970s, why do they all come to NEW YORK CITY???

r1 They don't.

Irish relief is a pittance.

OP pretty much all of Europe’s wealthier nations are (in the process of) severely restricting welfare for immigrants.

Free shit.

I teach English to many children of immigrants and get to know the families/situations. What I hear is:

-It’s dangerous in their home country -The public education system in their country is shit -They cannot find work in their home country.

I did have some students who, with their mother, became homeless. Overnight, they hightailed it to Montreal. They seem to be doing great there.

I think it's desperation that brings them here, when life in your home country is just so bad & worsening. Of course, they have a sense of hope about emigrating that probably diminishes once they get here and look around.

I really admire them for going to countries that loathe them. That takes more courage than I could ever muster. But I guess hateful words and glances are still better than the shitholes they left behind.

Under some Ibero-LATAM post colonial agreements, Latin Americans have easy legal access to Spanish visas granting residency and work permits in Spain. Wages in Spain are shit though and Spaniards have a superiority complex vis-a-vis their criollo and mestizo cousins.

There are more work opportunities here than in rural parts of Latin America. People go where others from their countries already live.

R9 What baffles me is that, even after acquiring citizenship and thus being able to travel freely across the continent, Latinos seem to have barely any interest in exploring other countries. They just stay in Spain and the one time they leave Madrid it's to visit their aunt in Toledo.

What conditions would make you leave your country and desperately move somewhere else?

What conditions would you allow your child to leave you and walk to another country often alone?

Those conditions are happening where those people are. Many of those conditions are caused by the US. The War on Drugs fomented the rise of gangs. gloval warming caused hurricanes to wipe out large portions of CentralAmerica

Reagan fucked the USA up.

Reagan hasn't been President since 1989.

I know that but he started it's demise.

Because they can get rich tryin? It's the land of opportunity aftet all

Nonsense.

First off it’s not about danger. International asylum rules say you stop in the first safe country which is Mexico — but most keep moving north.

They come to the U.S. for the same reason European immigrants still do: money. The United States is a hustler’s home. It has one of the highest levels of disposable income in the world, and your paycheck isn’t eaten up by heavy taxes like in much of Europe.

Here, you can work 60 hours a week, drive Uber, and actually see cash in your account — sometimes paid weekly or bi-weekly. Outside the U.S., in many Latin American and European countries, salaries are usually paid only once a month, and labor laws often cap working hours, making it harder to hustle.

And while Europe and parts of Latin America offer more welfare benefits, that comes at the cost of heavy taxation and limited take-home pay. In the U.S., you keep more of what you earn and have the freedom to grind as hard as you want.

And let’s be real, many migrants move into U.S. slums with gangs, crime, and poverty. They aren’t escaping danger, they’re trading one dangerous place for another, but with way more cash in their pocket. Violence exists, but most migrants cite economic reasons over safety when surveyed.

I’m Canadian and I don’t get why so many poor immigrants come to Vancouver. It’s expensive and finding a place to rent is hard. A lot of people stay here because of family and they grew up here. If you’re coming from somewhere else and have no ties why not go to the prairies where rent is cheap and you can find a job that pays better? It seems like a better way to build a life in a new country

I’m from Massachusetts, and I think a lot of people here are too.

Lynn is a small city about 25 minutes outside of Boston. Over the last two decades it’s become heavily Latino. If you live by or on Union Street, you don’t even need a car — the street has everything: bodegas, small groceries, a health community center, attorney offices, boutiques, laundromats, barbershops, salons, restaurants, pharmacies, even a Rent-A-Center — all Spanish-run. And if you want a job in Lynn, being bilingual is a must.

A lot of the North Shore also went through failed gentrification. You see luxury apartment buildings in Downtown Lynn with rooftop decks and swimming pools that are now Section 8 housing, because landlords would rather fill them with government-subsidized tenants than leave them vacant.

My cousin lives in a swanky apartment in Everett that’s been subsidized.

So I don’t know about Vancouver but being an immigrant outside of Boston ain’t that bad.

They come for the same reasons our ancestors came—freedom and opportunity.

R20 Unless you’re Black American, yes.

OP It's easier to get into than most countries

^ or was

Job opportunities and the opportunity to make more money. My dad is from Ireland and has an engineering degree. The were very few engineering jobs in early 1980s Ireland and his first job paid about 10,000 USD a year. He moved to the US and found an engineering job that paid 30k. It's not rocket science.

I feel the same way about New York City Why do low-income people continue to live there

To take advantage of the freebies

If you have Italian ancestry, I would look into acquiring Italian citizenship. Just for the healthcare alone...if you are not in a good position moneywise in the USA. Once you get it, you can live and work anywhere in the EU. IF your prospects in the US or elsewhere is poor, and you have Italian ancestry...I would look into this seriously.

American cluelessness about how good they have it. A huge portion of the world scrapes by with a shack or room for a house and barely enough food - due to extremely limited job opportunities. As the child of immigrants, I am extremely grateful they came - their life may have been only marginally better but mine was exponentially better. Cleaning house and cutting lawns in America IS a step up - as are some of the basic luxuries of American life. And for their unspoiled children who are trained not to take any of it for granted, the upside is huge.

r27 how many generations back?

Americans have absolutely no idea how good they have it. If you have to ask why so many people want to leave their place of origin you are truly clueless.

What Trump is doing is a horrible and cruel over-correction, deporting longtime non criminals who have been here 1 to 3 decades in many cases and have built lives, families.

But the situation in 2021-2022 with a record breaking number of undocumented migrants entering the US, was bad and the intense political pushback of 2024 was inevitable. They all came here because it seemed a lot better, or a chance to actually make money, than what they were leaving behind. Unfortunately it’s true that in their intentions to make money/a living, they were a mix of non-criminals and (yes) criminals.

And unfortunately it would take bipartisan cooperation and partnership to negotiate and enact a centrist immigration policy halfway between the extremes of the Biden 2022 situation and the Trump 2025 situation. We have never been further away from constructive bipartisanship than we are in this current era.

R18’Healthcare in the U.S. has its issues, but it’s not as dire as people make it out to be. If you live in a city today, urgent care centers are everywhere since Covid, and there are also community health centers specifically designed for low-income patients.

The real reason hospital visits are so expensive is because so many Americans don’t pay their bills, which drives up the cost for everyone else.

If you have a terminal illness, that’s one thing but even homeless people are on blood pressure medication, which is cheap.

People who act like healthcare in the US is non-existent if you’re not paying out of the ass is 100% false.

Because our hyper polarized conservative leaning politics are still better than their home country. They come here, open up a store— the feds give them subsidies they don’t give poor American born citizens— I wonder if that will stop under Dump. In addition their children are provided lunch at school. I would say public school is better than where they come from but nowadays poor immigrants are actually better educated at the primary level in their home countries. This is complex however because the situations are some varied. Some are coming from poor Western nations, just poverty and the plight of hunger exists. They won’t go hungry in America because we don’t allow that. They will get EBT and welfare. If they are illegal they won’t get welfare but they will get EBT for their children without it becoming an issue that they are illegal. I’m pretty sure too this has become more complicated under Dump. Some are coming from not only poverty but war torn countries where there is violence every single day in the non rich area

Ireland and UK do not allow immigrants as easily as pre Dump 2.0 Trump. Their size prevents them from doing so but also culturally they realize it hurts their native population.

If Trump and Thiel and Vance have their way, America will be a place where only the very wealthy can live. The rest of the country will suffer with bad health and poor housing. Eventually immigrants will understand that the US is only for the rich and they'll go elsewhere, and all the jobs they do, the servants, the gardeners, the foundry workers, the nannies, the construction workers, will be done by poor Americans.

R12 - that's not really the reason. Yes, US getting involved in undermining or overthrowing progressive or socialist politics in the Western Hemisphere is well known.

But a deeper cause is the Spanish colonial system of having almost a landed gentry class of large landholders and the rest given crumbs to live on. Massive corruption, limited mobility, catering to drug cartels, corrupt police and politicians who bow to the elites and cartels.

You're going to stay desperately poor in those countries unless you make a bold move out of there. Where else are you going to go? Most Latin American countries are in the same boat.

The powerful and the rich never want to give up that power and privilege - and they're going to keep people down as much as they can - moreover, many think they deserve to be in their position - as the poor deserve to be in theirs.

Stupid people go on about American intervention and politics as the only reason why some countries have problems - when really, they have fundamental structural problems from Spanish colonialism that never were corrected.

R11 writes "Latinos seem to have barely any interest in exploring other countries. They just stay in Spain and the one time they leave Madrid it's to visit their aunt in Toledo."

And Americans are so different? Please.

R32 Exactly spot on but I want to point out this—

The real reason hospital visits are so expensive is because so many Americans don’t pay their bills, which drives up the cost for everyone else.

Poor people without healthcare for some reason(illegal, unemployed) Self employed people with no insurance or under insured.

But a lot of people with insurance don’t pay their bills for some aspects of health care, when it comes to more expensive procedures that the insurance does not cover 100%.

R37 - huh? No - that's not the reason why our healthcare costs are over double than our European counterparts. From people who don't pay their bills? Get out of here.

Where did you get that idea? We're in a for-profit system with crushing out of control costs so they can increase profits for shareholders.

Also historically America is much closer geographically to impoverished countries than England. The Caribbean, Mexico, Central America. These countries are also way more culturally similar to America than the poor countries closest to England. Christian, large populations that are the descendent of slaves, the black/white dichotomy of race even if not as hyper as in America; various pastimes and traditions are also similar. Poor Eastern Europe and North Africa are not culturally similar to England the way that most our poor countries are. And I’m saying historically because the past 20 years of technology and social media has changed things drastically.

r38 fwiw, I have that poster blocked, which suggests trolling.

R38 Poor or uninsured people do not pay their medical bills which drive costs. I’m not bashing the poor people. Obamacare reduced the amount of astronomical medical bills. But now there is still so much small debt spread out amongst poor or underinsured. They won’t pay because can still live a full life and I don’t blame them. If you don’t pay your mortgage or rent you will lose your place of stay. Not paying your medical bills 400, 500 bucks, you can still continue to get sick and get coverage. Yea corporate greed still exists as it does every profit making industry. When we talk about medical corporate greed some use it as crutch that people should pay nothing at all. Retail debt is personal, and manageable because the person who is not paying won’t continue to partake in that system therefore cost won’t rise for us all. Costs may rise because of inflation or greed but not because of those who won’t pay their credit card bills. In medicine those with debt continue to rack up debt and increases costs for all because obviously they cannot be permanently removed from that system. It would be immoral to do that.

R35 is also spot on

“But a deeper cause is the Spanish colonial system of having almost a landed gentry class of large landholders and the rest given crumbs to live on. Massive corruption, limited mobility, catering to drug cartels, corrupt police and politicians who bow to the elites and cartels.”

This is the defining issue in a lot of poor Western nations.

In America we have corrupt politicians, greedy corporatists, but they don’t swallow the entire system preventing anyone from outside that world from entering. In fact Id argue that staying poor in America is often due to cultural pressure rather than outright oppression. Oppression confounds poverty but it doesn’t prevent you from getting out of it.

R41 - if you believe that $400 or $500 unpaid medical bills are the reason we have shitty coverage, more than reasonable costs for routine procedures and outrageous prescription costs that no other country in the world pays at - then I can't help you.

Turn off Fox news. People not paying their medical bills has nothing to do with the costs - and it is a result of a broken system where many people cannot afford to pay their excessive bills due to lack of coverage and astronomical charges.

We've all seen medical bills that people receive - hundreds of thousands of dollars or more for giving birth. It does NOT cost that hospital that much - never has and never will.

Seriously - inform yourself - not sure where you've got this info, but it's wrong and doesn't make any sense.

One could also argue that centuries of American chest-thumping/propagation of the myth that ours is the greatest nation on Earth has something to do with it.

R44 - there actually was some truth to it though, at one time. Not in the past 30 years though - so many countries have passed us by in terms of quality of life.

And it wasn't centuries - America only became a default super-power after WW1. America is the world's oldest democracy and, warts an all, provide untold social mobility and comfort for immigrants and their descendants that other countries could only dream of.

Not anymore obviously - or not to that degree. We've fallen behind in so many metrics - starting with Reaganomics and Republicans pulling back on so many programs and promoting wealth, greed and hatred.

People like r17 just keep spreading misinformation:

[quote] International asylum rules say you stop in the first safe country which is Mexico — but most keep moving north.

We have an agreement with Canada that says that, but no amount of xenophobia makes that international asylum rules.” This is a right wing fever dream, which r17 is welcome to validate by quoting an actual law or agreement.

R43 you realize you contradict yourself throughout your entire post. I don’t watch Fox News. I know very few pregnant women without health insurance. Actually I don’t know any. I’m going to guess poor women who don’t have health insurance, attain it once getting pregnant. Small debts are contributing. Why the fuck am I going to pay a medical bill as a poor person, when I must pay rent, iPhone bill, food on the table. I don’t pay that it will stop immediately. Healthcare is forever. It’s corporate greed and people refusing to pay medical bills that they could work in their budget. But I’m all mixed up anyway. Because I don’t even believe in pro profit healthcare. It should all be single payer.

R46 - it doesn't make the argument any less sound though - people say they are immigrating because of X, Y, Z - including violence - but they get fucking choosey about where they want to move to.

Same in Europe - they don't stop until they get to Germany or UK.

So many of them - as in Europe - are economic migrants. And that's not what asylum laws are for. Economic immigrants and then they shit all over European customs once they get in.

R46 Bullshit.

As I said, I’m from Lynn, MA. Anyone who is familiar with the Boston area knows Lynn is the hub of Latino immigration. I was raised with majority first generation Latino Americans.

Like I know what it’s like to go to a school where the cafeteria where American born Latinos segregated the “hicks”. Dominican, Mexican, Nicaraguan, Guatemalan, Brazilian, etc.

I know Spanish because I grew up around it. Estudie frances en la secundaria porque no era necesario aprener espanol.

The idea of millions of Latinos coming up to the US to escape drug cartels and brown water to me is a very white affluent liberal theory used to justify all of it. It’s made by people who didn’t grow up around Latino immigrants especially illegals.

R48 and r49,, the argument was nothing about what the law should be, it’s what it is. Are you going to support the original point of the argument, or just keep changing it?

R47 - people's unpaid medical bills go to collection and can ruin your credit. It can make it more difficult for you to find a job, get an apartment, etc.

I'm not sure how much you think this is contributing to our costs - but it's a few drops in a bucket.

And to add to my R49 post, Lynn is 44% Hispanic, 34% White, 10% Black, 6.7% Asian. 100k population.

So I don’t want to hear I don’t know what I’m talking about.

You guys don’t know what you’re talking about because you weren’t raised with Hispanic immigrants lol.

R46 - remind us - what is your original point because I don't know what it is? Seriously.

No matter what OP, poor immigrants come to America and are class above where they came from. And here’s another fun fact— children of immigrants get out of poverty at higher rates than children of American born parents. And here is another fun fact. Black children of immigrants get out of poverty at much higher rates than native African-Americans. But being poor and racism should have made at least 3 generations stay in poverty right? In fact the only people I have ever known with multiple generations of poverty are American— either black or rednecks.

Well, r53 I thought it was relatively clear by quoting the original argument and then responding.

The argument was that immigrants are required to claim asylum in the first safe country. If you are unable to follow that argument, r17 is saying that Central Americans are required to claim asylum in Mexico, not the United States. If you don’t understand that, r17 arguing it to delegitimize Central and South Americans’ claims to be in the US.

There is no such requirement. If you think there should be, you might want to look at the fate of German Jews who went to the Netherlands or France rather than the US. That time is especially pertinent because the reason why when many asylum laws were written.

R51 ok maybe I’m wrong. I’ll admit in that regard I was speaking anecdotally. Are most of the high costs driven by pure greed?

Some things I have posted are a statistical fact— immigrant children get out of poverty at higher rates than poor Americans born into poverty. America, flaws and all, is not that bad if your culture is right.

R54 So they say but black wealth thrives in non-immigrant states where there’s a Black American population. Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Houston, Dallas, and other parts of the South are where a lot of Black wealth and middle/upper-class growth have concentrated. These are areas with historic Black populations, HBCUs, and long-established professional and business networks.

So no, not exactly true. You think the hoods on the East Coast aren’t flooded with African immigrants? Looool where are you from? Maine?

I second r6, i work as a teacher at a large community school and encounter off-the-boat families of all colors and origins. They all seem to want a safer more prosperous future than what they faced back home. Plus, the history of immigration makes it seem possible to fit in unlike say, Finland

R57 Ummm…….Perhaps you should reread my post.

Reread my post. Reading comprehension is critical. When did that I ever make the argument or even compare poverty stricken black immigrants to legacy middle class blacks. The easy coast hoods may be “flooded” with African immigrants, whatever flood is supposed to designate but they aren’t the majority. And they more often better educated and their 2nd generation, ie their children, won’t continue to live in poverty.

My sister teaches in a Spanish immersion school in a wealthy coastal district that is a mix of quaint towns and agriculture. It's a mix of wealth and immigrant farm workers. The school accepts any non English language speakers, although the majority of immigrant kids speak Spanish. There are both English immersion classes (including Chinese native speakers for example) and Spanish immersion where native Spanish speakers learn English from Spanish speaking teachers. English speakers may join those classes to learn Spanish.

Most of the students come from dirt poor "peasant" families where the parents are illiterate. They are desperately trying to lift their families from poverty and hopelessness.

They come to the US to work, to send money home, and to be safe. In the old colonial systems of Mexico and other countries south of the border, there is, although now changing, a definite elite power class made up of the Spanish conquerors and pure Spanish. They owned all the land, the mixed race and indigenous are/were mainly tenants on the elite's vast holdings. No education, no opportunity etc. I had a friend from that ruling class. She rejected the inequality, left a wealthy abuser, and came to the US to become a nurse and activist.

Thanks to trump, America is heading backwards toward that system of vast inequality. Where will we flee to escape it? Mexico could be a good bet. Listen to Michael Wolff's podcast, it's gearing up, with a new president, to become a competitive power on the world stage. The world is leaving the U.S. behind due to the shocking lack of judgement in electing an unreliable, lying, idiot and criminal. That alone will reduce our immigrant population. But for some, it's still better than the impoverished places they flee.

And since you brought up black middle class and wealth, I know two upper middle class black majority areas. One in the mid-Atlantic and another in the south. AAs are the majority, but Caribbean blacks make up a bigger share in those communities than their numbers in the general population. That’s an interesting point to this discussion.

Both our first African -Americans in the highest land of office were the children of black daddies who aren’t African-American. Isn’t that also interesting?

I realize I should have made it clear that I’m comparing poor black immigrants to poor American blacks. But why would I be saying get out of poverty faster for a group that was never in poverty ie middle class AAs. That doesn’t even make sense lol.

American health care is expensive largely because medical salaries are high. And they should be high, but it's not predominantly poor people causing the high cost.

Comparing recent immigrants, particularly black ones, to multi-generational African Americans is comparing on skin color and not by cultural and ingrained setbacks from the hundreds of years of discrimination here.

Immigrants are coming here for opportunity and seek it out wherever they can. But they are also not tied down to multi-generations of discrimination and the crabs-in-the-bucket mentality to keep people down with everyone else.

When you're not raised to think the color of your skin is a detriment in your country and you're proud of who you are and weren't raised with the messages and aggressions that your people are criminals, less intelligent, etc., it is a hold different attitude toward coming into a new country and how you interact with everyone else around you and how you perceive opportunities and go about it.

Do black immigrants know of racism in the US? Of course they do - but they weren't born into the culture of racism and poverty, nor were they brought up by their elders to limit yourself, watch yourself, and the other countless messages US-born African Americans receive.

It is not apples to apples comparison. At all. Moreover, there is a lot of incentive to work hard and do more because you can send a little money home that can make a HUGE difference to the families left in their countries. $50 a month goes nowhere here - but you're a god damn hero and a savior if you send that money to your family in other countries around the world.

R55 - ok thanks. Yes you're right - there is no law requiring people go to the nearest country.

But there is no denying that people are choosey about where they go - and a handful of countries on the entire planet can't be the landing ground for every citizen on the planet who want a better life.

R62 Again, another misconception is poor African immigrants go from drinking brown water in Africa to becoming doctors in the US.

Most immigrants are middle class. Super poor Africans can’t afford the flight.

Simple answer: Ask your own immigrant ancestors, OP. Unless we are 100% Native American, we all have them. They came to America seeking a better life. Isn't that what today's immigrants are doing?

R66 the only misconception is your perception of my comments. If you ever master critical thinking you wouldn’t be confused. My language is precise and deliberate. Were you the one who brought up poor Africans on the east coast? Because if so you brought them up. I stated poor black immigrants. I didn’t even think Africa because I’ve never really encountered a poor black African immigrant with any regularity. I’ve encountered poor black Caribbean immigrants— whether from Haiti, Jamaica, Guyana, Dominican Republican, or somewhere in South America(not mixed raced either I’m talking Afro-Latino and visibly so). But more importantly I spoke in a statistic I know to be true outside of my observation. These groups who come in here in poverty get out of it faster than their Afro-black American counterparts born in poverty.

Middle class immigrants don't slog through deserts, swim across rivers, or sail in on flimsy boats.

My earliest US ancestors, two brothers, undocumented boat people, took a treacherous journey over rough seas in 1660. They were from a German principality and were seeking a better life. Over the centuries they fought for freedom in many wars (six in the American Revolution), married newer immigrants and I now proudly carry the blood of 12 nations. The younger generations include even more. Asian, Jewish, Hispanic, African American, and Gay. I love being part of a vibrant, diverse family. From dirt poor farmers hewing logs in virgin forests, we now include professionals of all sorts. Discrimination, and all the other shit spewed by Scum Trump, are not part of the dialog.

R69 That’s fascinating that you are able to track your lineage from so long ago. I wish I could do that.

If they are illegal, they can get free healthcare. They just go to ER. They can't be turned away and if they have cancer...they get chemo for free. It's called emergency medicaid. I saw it on NY1. You know those illegals are popping out babies the second they get here coz the US born baby can apply green cared for them once it turns 21. And they don't have to pay nothing for medical costs associated with the pregnancy. They are getting free treatments like dialysis etc

^^ sadness.

Why do poor people want to stay in the US? Wait they don’t have resources to just pack up? Oh MARY!

Again with the DMs in a DL,post. Take it offline DL into SM if you need to have a conversation

So that they can build a nice life for themselves get a little money in their pocket and vote Republican to get back at all those gays and uppity women!

Thanks R70, my older sister did the legwork. We knew ancestors fought in the American Revolution but not all the details or how far back they went. My father's name was the same as one of the founding brothers, that was a surprise to learn. It's really piqued my interest in early American history. Also angers me how rump & crooked company are trashing our predecessors hard work. 250 years from the Revolution and we still haven reached our full potential. Farther from ever from it now.

[quote]They can't be turned away and if they have cancer...they get chemo for free. It's called emergency medicaid. I saw it on NY1. You know those illegals are popping out babies the second they get here coz the US born baby can apply green cared for them once it turns 21. And they don't have to pay nothing for medical costs associated with the pregnancy. They are getting free treatments like dialysis etc

Thank you for performing all this research for us!!!!! I would be shocked, but I knew a guy who swam Rio Grande to get American dialysis. Surprising, but true! Hopefully, you will find the time to post mor often.

R17 first of all in general our violent ghettos are not as dangerous as the slums in Central and South America. No gang in America even in fucking violent ass New Orleans or Chicago is going to force some 12 yr old to be a drug pusher. Saying no the cartels in those countries could mean the beheading of a parent or elder sibling. Gangs here will force the hand of members who have already joined but they don’t recruit young kids and threaten them with violence for not meeting their demands. We have corrupt politicians but our entire system isn’t corrupt. You could get protection here.

I like to be in America, okay by me In America!

My father came to America in the late 1940s from Sicily, sponsored by his uncle, supposedly to get a degree in accounting, but got involved in the restaurant business, and ended up doing that instead, eventually owning his own restaurants. He got his citizenship, got married, had children, bought a house, lived a decent life. If he stayed back home, the best he could have hoped for was being a farmer.

He could have joined the la cosa nostra .

R80 - he probably came over illegally. There was a cap on Southern European immigration until the 1960s. Only 57,000 Italians were allowed to immigrate in the 1940s.

So your father was illegal for a long time - until it opened up.

The populations with the most illegal immigration in NYC from the 1960s-1970s were Italian and Irish.

He wasn't sponsored by his uncle - that's most likely a family tale.

R82 here - and that's why he went into the restaurant business. Because he couldn't go into other things because of his status.

No shame - but the likelihood of your father being a legal immigrant is very low.

R82 He was sponsored by his uncle to come to the US as a student. He worked part time and sometimes full-time to pay for school and his rent/living. He discovered he could make more money working in restaurants than being an accountant/bookkeeper. I recently found a copy of his D.S.S. Form 1 Registration card from 1948 which means he was eligible to be drafted into the US military. He got his US citizenship in 1955. I think his employer and his uncle swore as character witnesses for him.

R84 - DSS Form 1 registration card was used for WW2 registration and draft in 1942. To register after the war is over is strange - not sure if it was used. I could be wrong - but let me know what you find.

I agree that he probably got his citizenship in 1955 - but I don't think he came over legally.

Remember - 57,000 in ten years is 5,700 a year, which is very tight.

And being from Siciily - those restaurants were most likely mob run.

I have a Mexican-American coworker who wants to bring over his elderly parents to the US. I said really, with the current state of the country? He said Mexico is not what you see on TikTok - its dirty, dusty, violent, corrupt with few good jobs and terrible health care system. I was not expecting that answer, especially when he wears Mexico-themed clothing all the time and even takes the day off when the national soccer team has a game that day.

R82 That’s interesting. You never hear about that. I learned that today from you, if it’s true. Complexion for the protection. I’m not being cynical either I believe you and shit is probably true as fuck.

R85. Dear Lord. I assume you're joke posting. Otherwise, what a whacko. Next, you will deduce his father was a serial rapist.

R86 yea man. Don’t get it twisted. Mexico is still a former third world country transitioning to first. Or was it just impoverished, but not third world. Someone broke it down for me years ago and schooled me that not every poor country was third world. I thought that’s what third world meant but it’s actually some type of political distinction. Like US and the western world first world, Russia and Cuba 2nd world, and then the rest third world. Japan a world power became first world because of its eventual allies with the west.

America has just become more scary to us politically minded folk. Most of America is still tuning out outside the election season and just wants to watch Monday Night football. However everybody is getting a sense that Trump is become too dictator like. People are slowly feeling like shit is weird.

R88 you’re the one that’s sounds like a wacko. Da fuck? Or did you mistype the @R.

R85 His uncle sponsored over 12 relatives between 1945 and 1962. He was a sergeant first class during WW2. Perhaps having military distinction allowed him that privilege. MY father never worked for the mob, in fact when a mob person tried to get him to pay protection services for his restaurant in Hells Kitchen in the 1960s, he closed it down and moved to a different neighborhood.

Now that Trump is demonizing immigrants, fewer and fewer of them will see America as a land of opportunity

R88 - what a weird response.

But the likelihood of his father being a legal immigrant is slim to none during those years. It's due to the 1924 immigration act which restricted immigration from Southern European countries and other places.

Do I think his father worked his ass off and did well and was an upstanding citizen? Yes. But, being Sicilian, they could also use connections - and to bribe immigration and other places to pass people off and get them citizenship. Including a forged WW2 draft form that was no longer in use in the 1950s.

I'm not putting shame on anyone - I'm just saying his father's story is very fishy and it was widely known that the largest % of illegal immigrants in 1950's through 1970s were Italian and Irish.

The goal is to make the USA white majority again.

R91 - I'm sorry to say that your family's history is very inprobable. Do you have any idea how many people wanted to immigrate to America from Europe in the 1940s?

That he was able to immigrate 12 relatives during a time when there were such restrictions is usually due to fraud and illegal immigration.

I don't know what to tell you - but that there is no shame. They were probably great people who worked hard. But to have 12 come over - that's just fantasy that it was normal immigration for Sicilian people.

Your family lied to you.

Because it's the home of the brave and land of the free. That motto worked for years and years until a psychopath became president.

R96 God, what an idiot you are. None of what I'm saying is legend or fabrication. I understand the immigration limits for each country during that period, but they all came here legally and all became citizens in relatively short periods of time. I found many documents in hard copy and also found many online through Ancestry that show they were legal residents. You can believe your own myopic preconceptions.

R97 - and I can believe that your family, despite its protests of not being involved with the mob in NYC - which is practically impossible during that time - particularly for Sicilian owned restaurants - were able to bribe people to make things official.

There was a massive amount of bribery and fraud in those days.

Dude - I'm not saying they were bad people. But the probability of some young man from Sicily without any formal education (that you mentioned) to come to the states to study Accounting, which he never did - and then he worked in restaurants?

Where do you think recent arrivals work? Restaurants.

The odds of your relative being able to bring 12 people over during that time - with no bribes or other fishy things going on - is slim to none. Look it up.

Because not everyone can go to Europe. Also the USA is used to a larger non white population so regardless of racism is often times easier for people to assimilate into. Europe is not a settler continent so you will always be seen as other in ways you won't in the USA.

Also the US isn't as bad as self hating think.

Of course as always so many of you assume that the only place that people emigrated to after WW2 was the USA.

R100 - so just came here to slam Americans - what other input do you have about immigration? What is your country's issues?

Expand the conversation instead of a throw-away insult.

R101 here - what ARE your country's immigration issues.

R101 some of you Americans are so sensitive to any implied or real criticism these days but considering your current administration, that's not especially surprising. Just a reminder - the majority of voters in the 2024 voted for Trump. Sort that shit out before going on the attack.

Off the top of my head I know that Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Urugay and Argentina took in post WW2 refugees, along with the UK and USA, and I'm sure many others.

R101 you are a perfect example of the average dumb datalounger who can only see the world as USA (a.k.a "America") and the country of Europe.

R103 - and again - you just came here to slam Americans. The topic is about immigration - but you don't even mention what your issues are in your country.

Guess what? If a thread is about one nation that is yours and someone comes in to say, hey - it's so X for you to discuss this - and not reply with any information about your own country's experiences - then you're a cunt.

Read the title of the thread. But you're just a cunt. I'm willing to change my mind if you add anything to the conversation about your own country, but you haven't thus far.

R103 enters a thread about "Why do poor immigrants want to come to USA" and then is surprised and insulted that the conversation is US specific.

Cunt.

R104 I didn't just come here to slam Americans - I've been on Datalounge for over fifteen years. If you have a such a thin skin that you can't cope with feedback on your USA then that's your problem, not mine.

Have a great day, if you can!

Europe has immigration problems too. I often read about how they try to sneak in via the tunnel (between England and France)

R107 see R103 - there is more to the world than "Europe" and "America".

Good luck with that, R108.

I think it’s important to understand the history and recent trends of immigration to appreciate why it became an issue. The link below shows the trend. It’s dramatic.

What’s also interesting is that the UK - which did Brexit to reduce immigration - ended up having MORE immigrants post-Brexit because they needed low-wage workers to be home health aides. But they came from non-European countries. A classic example of why immigration is needed - for growth and because spoiled first world kids dont want to do shitty, low wage work.

Because it's still better than the shitholes they came from.

My family experienced chain migration. An uncle came to the USA from the UK in the mid-20s. He worked, proved he could provide for an immigrant relative two years later. His sister, my aunt, came over. Then she sponsored another sister. That aunt sponsored a brother. He brought over another sister. This happened over a period of fifteen years.

My Mom and her parents (My grandmother was the youngest sibling.) were sponsored to come to America in 1939. Then the war broke out. They would have to wait until it ended. My grandfather volunteered for the British army and he was killed in North Africa. Mom and my grandmother came over in 1947. Last week, a neighbor "half-joked" that I was the son of an immigrant, and maybe my family needed to be looked into.

They came for the same America dream.

The Spanish turned South America into a total fucking shitshow. It should've been colonized by the English. All of the New World English colonies became stable, first world nations.

Most of the problems with the Latin American countries can be traced back to constant interference and assassinations and coups by the CIA .

It was a shitshow long before that r114.

R113 - and how that happened was the right to own property in the US, which gave them the right to vote (before it was opened to every one). The ability to own land was a peasant's wildest dreams. Most of the land in Europe was divided up and given to the aristocracy.

Spain continued that tradition - England did not. Not sure why either - they certainly had that policy back home - but they chartered a new way instead. Probably as an enticement to settle.

LIVERPOOL, England, Sept 28 (Reuters) - Britain will consider tightening the rules over how migrants can settle permanently in the country by making applicants prove their value to society, interior minister Shabana Mahmood will say on Monday. The plan is the latest government effort to dent the rising popularity of the populist Reform UK party, which has led the debate on tackling immigration and forced Prime Minister Keir Starmer's Labour Party to toughen its policies.

The countries south of the border were founded on a system of exploitation, religious oppression, and subjugation of the indigenous population. The people of Mexico have survived monarchy, dictatorship, and instability. The wealthy elite ruling minority still largely consists of the conquering Spaniards and other Europeans who grabbed up all the land, making natives and other inferiors tenant peasants on soil they could never own.

Many of the indigenous "peasant" class were, and still are, illiterate, with little chance to learn to read on the land where they grew up. Things are beginning to change, but Mexico still has a long way to go. For people trapped in poverty with no way to progress within their own country, like many of our own ancestors, they leave in search of a better life. My ancestors did it, as would I, if trapped in a hopeless situation now. I am already considering it. It's very hard to legally immigrate now, others desperate to get out may go illegally.

US citizens do not appreciate how lucky we are to have had such wise founders, in spite of many flaws. Over the centuries we have struggled to go forward to make a better life for ourselves, with immigrants able to take part and become citizens themselves. Now we are on the way to authoritarianism under idiot wannabe dictators and may become another shithole the more ambitious want to flee.

The poverty rate in Latin America now stands at around 25% of the region’s population or approximately 170 million people. In 2000 that figure was at 54%, or about 230 million people. Statistically things are looking up south of the border but the endemic corruption there seems to bring perpetual crises.

The Spanish didn't exterminate the native population or interbreed with them like the English did in North America. Therein lie all the problems.

R120. Wrong.

Wrong again. Lots of inbreeding.

Not exhaustive extermination, but oppression and subjugation. But many were slaughtered and others interbred.

r121 look around at Connecticut and Massachusetts. Then look at Mexico.

Bless your ignorant heart.