Is this whole country collapsing into an ignorant, hateful shithole?

Democrats misread the room They still haven't gotten it yet when it comes to crime, immigration, men in women's sports, DEI, the homeless, catch and release . . .

Yes. Democrats “misread the room”.. That’s the real problem. When your entire country is giving in to militaristic fascist authoritarianism, make sure to blame the other side.

To put R1 another way: bullshit GOP talking points with no connection to reality managed to sway pig-ignorant American voters.

Or they just hacked the tabulators and flipped all the swing states.

r2 I agree with you, but will also point out that history shows you can't lecture or guilt trip the majority into accepting the more enlightened point of view. It's just not gonna happen. Americans are obviously going through a fascist phase right now and there's very little anyone can do about it but ride it out and hope there's still something resembling a democracy on the other side.

Well, r2---you have to admit that Dems have done a horrible job. Objectively. And it's not the first time, and it's not like you couldn't see it from miles (or decades) away. I can blame Republicans as much as I feel compelled, and I do despair at the thought of 50% of the country finding all of this palatable---but at the end of the day, there are people in my party who get paid to pursue a political project that requires majority support, and they have made it clear that they don't know the first thing about that.

It's like Dems are operating through a time portal from America that doesn't exist anymore. You just can't beat extreme right-wing populism with the same tired old tricks. Can we at least agree on that much?

If polls are accurate, Trump's approval ratings are the lowest they've ever been. He promised a better economy and they believed him. Oh, my sides.

[quote]If polls are accurate, Trump's approval ratings are the lowest they've ever been. He promised a better economy and they believed him. Oh, my sides.

And where do you think the Democrats currently stand in the polls?

Oh my sides indeed.

R8, they just lost an election last year. Thats the way public attitudes work.

A winning president completely in the toilet just seven months after taking office? That is NOT the way public attitudes work.

But see, the distinction requires human thought to comprehend. Completely beyond the scope of MAGA, in other words.

It's all panned out a little more optimistically than I thought. I knew Trump would win the first time around. I thought we'd see reporters arrested and defenestrated already. Yes, this is a hateful stupid mentally ill shithole and a crumbling state. The future belongs to China.

Democrats would rather loose than upset their donors.

[Quotes] Latinos are registering as republicans

Esto no es nuevo

R4 I hate to agree with you, but I do.

I just watch the world, the ICE raids, the National Guard being called into cities, Texas gerrymandering, and it's just fascism 101. And not enough people give a shit. Hell, too many love it.

I wish I was older. At 45, I have too much time left to give up. But there really doesn't seem to be much point in giving a shit.

We lost.

[quote]A winning president completely in the toilet just seven months after taking office? That is NOT the way public attitudes work. But see, the distinction requires human thought to comprehend.

I depends on what polls you are looking at. But the distinction requires human thought to comprehend.

The RealClear average gives Trump an approval rating of 45.9%. Of course you'll say RealClear is biased. But they were in fact correct in 2024. Also, you have to take into account the fact that Trump is always underestimated in the polls. He was in 2016, 2020 and 2024.

But most importantly, take a look at what polling organizations were most accurate in 2024. See link.

And see what their polling says. Theses are the results for the top ten:

Atlas hasn't polled since July, so for now I'll ignore them.

ActiVote has Trump at 44.5% (August 1st)

Quantus has Trump at 47% (August 13th)

SoCal has Trump at 45% (August 18th)

BigDataPoll (hasn't polled since July)

Rasmussen: has Trump at 49% (August 21st)

JL Partners: (hasn't polled since June)

Fabrizio/GBOA/WSJ: (hasn't polled since July)

Tipp: has Trump at 45% (August 1st)

Hart: (hasn't polled since June)

Quick answer is yes.

The real answer is that the Democrats do not have a clue at all as to what the American populace has turned into. They're going to fuck up the 2026 midterms, and quite easily, in what should be a landslide for the Dems.

R14, if you're quoting Rasmussen...

Yes.

R15, Republicans couldn't even win the midterms in a supposed "red wave" year

[quote] if you're quoting Rasmussen...

They were the among the most accurate pollsters in 2024.

dyou before. I'ts corruption. Republicans are looters, plain and simple and the reason they win votes is that the billionaire class has made corruption fashionable.

The country is presently in recession. This may reduce inflation, but not in food and energy. It will reduce home prices, however.

[quote]Well, [R2]---you have to admit that Dems have done a horrible job.

No, they have not!

Dems have NEVER trampled the Constitution, approved an attack on Congress, beat police officers to a pulp, palled around with multiple rapists, sucked up to dictators including Putin, trashed our world reputation, or endeavored to literally destroy the rules of law!

What the fuck is even wrong with you?

R22 You might want to write a strongly worded letter sharing your concerns with R2

[quote]Democrats would rather loose than upset their donors.

First Ms. Palin, you should learn the difference between "loose" and "lose", but it's funny to see you're the one millionth person on the internet to fuck that up today!

r23, you might want to wipe off your face after you finishing blowing Stephen Miller.

[quote]The country is presently in recession.

Where are you getting this info?

I don’t think everyone is going MAGA, I think people are tired of “woke” politics and the way radical progressivism has become oppressive.

Clinton and Obama both pushed policies that would be labeled MAGA today. That shows how far the spectrum has shifted. Both Democrats and Republicans have become new parties compared to what they once were.

The problem is no one pushes back on this shift because they’re afraid. The truth is that what’s considered “moderate” today is closer to the old Democratic core, while the party itself has drifted into extreme left ideology.

Most people actually fall somewhere in the middle, but that middle isn’t politically represented at all anymore.

I’m just outside of Boston, MA—deep blue state. Even the Republicans here lean liberal.

But when ICE raids happened, there was almost no pushback. It was quiet. That was TELLING.

Like Glinda the Good Witch said, "it was in them the whole time."

They just needed permission to reveal themselves.

Trump gave them that, and now they feel brave.

We just have to remember who they are, so when the tide turns....

When a country's leader is crass, hateful, greedy, corrupt, and ignorant, it is a green light for others to follow suit. They see how he gets away with everything, even gets rewarded for being a giant piece of shit. They would rather go along and try to grab a piece of the pie than appeal to their better angels.

He has a cult of personality and there is no chance of things getting better until he is dead. What a joyous day that will be.

The Democrats also don’t have a clear leader right now. They have no Trump equivalent who’s able to ignite and rally the base.

Don't know who the Hay woman, but I wonder if Boyd is a magat. What was the meme, OP? There are levels to this. It could be "haha, funny" anyone could laugh all the way up to "Trump's rectum is my home."

R32, Boyd went MAGA via RFK Jr and crunchy granola fascism.

A mirror has been held up and Americans see that the old "USA! USA! We're No. 1!" no longer applies. Shocked, they've re-elected a cruel clown who names names, identifying the scapegoats for the dirt-ignorant voters: immigrants, foreign relations, DEI, libtards, rainbow crosswalks, anything that doesn't celebrate an ideal of American Exceptionalism and White Supremiscism that's long dead.

Trump's voters are too ignorant to wise up and have a reckoning, a change of mind, no matter how deeply Trump's changes undercut their own interests.

Only a genocide against Republican voters will get us out of this.

[quote]Is this whole country collapsing into an ignorant, hateful shithole?

Yep and we saw it coming. Look at the flag waving 'patriots' who go on and on about how much they love the country, but went to the polls and voted for someone who vowed to dismantle (& destroy) the norms that placed the U.S. in a preeminent position among nations for decades. Mix in the normalization of ignorance, hateful ideologies, and cruelty and you get America in 2025. They wanted this, we have to suffer through it, and anyone who is suddenly appalled at what's happening nine months after endorsing this madness should be told to go fuck themselves.

The rot will be with us for many years to come.

I’ve always had sound mental health and never struggled in that area, but the past two years have really hit me hard. It truly feels like everything we once had is slipping into an inescapably dark future. Not just Trump, but also AI and the Israel/Gaza situation and the growing class war, to say nothing of social media and lack of humanity that’s pervading everything. I watch nostalgic videos and tear up, not because I’m getting older (I’m relatively young and happy with my age), but because it feels like there’s no chance of going back.

He didn't win. Most MAGAts had taken down their Trump flags. I knew more diehard Republicans who absolutely refused to vote him and quite a few voted for him. Her reaching out to Lis Cheney et al worked in them. Plus to any sane person, he's repellent. All that's left are the vocal nutcases. Elon stole the election for him. Democrats are pussies who need to quit with the money worshiping of their donors and get over the cellphone komproment that he and his Soviet helpers have on them and grow some balls and fight back. MAGa is not sweeping the nation. And I bet this post gives me a 24 hour timeout

Look at all the fatal accidents and spills. For years, every time something happened it was blamed on Pete. You have not seen one article in months about Sean Duffy presiding over the worst months of transportation accidents on record.

Democrats misread the room. Trump isn’t popular but the Dems are in much worse shape. Yes the Dems 25 years ago were closer to Trump than Dems today. Democrats thought people cared more about democracy and identity politics than the economy or their own prejudices. Guess they don’t.

R40 Democrats have been hijacked by scene ideology. In earlier decades, countercultures like hippies, punks, or goths shaped art, music, and social attitudes, but they didn’t have the tools to take over political institutions. Their influence was limited to protest movements or symbolic rebellion.

Now, social media has changed the entire equation. Platforms amplify niche voices into massive ones, and what used to be subcultural energy can redirect the mainstream. Online, a small but loud scene can dominate the conversation, pressure politicians, and steer an entire party toward their priorities. That’s exactly what’s happened: Democrats have allowed themselves to be pulled by the currents of “scene” thinking rather than grounded leadership.

The result is a party that often looks more like a collage of online identities and aesthetics than a coalition built on broad, practical concerns. What used to exist on the cultural margins now has the power to set the mainstream agenda — and voters are starting to notice the gap between scene ideology and everyday reality.

R1 has been on the "blocked" list for ages. Just another persistent little stinky MAGA cockroach who likes to shit on this board.

This kind of thread is always catnip for the curmudgeons. The Republicans are steadily imposing a military dictatorship and a crony plutocrat economy on an unwilling population. By every measure Trump's polling is underwater on immigration and the economy, supposedly the Republicans' strong areas, let alone other issues. We're heading into recession and unemployment. The Dems were kicked out of power because of inflation (which they had actually gotten under control) in line with a global series of anti-incumbent elections (UK, France, Germany, Italy, etc.) and actually held on better than most of those places; to hold onto power in 2026 the Republicans will have to mess with the electoral process, which they're more than willing to do (because they're fascists now); but that'll make most people even angrier.

What I really, really, want to see is a major full-on 1930's depression.

Both Trump and the Democrats (the party at large) are polling shit numbers at this time. There’s a lot to unpack and to try to understand.

“Everyone” OP? Nope never......

R41. Correct. Also be pre Musk Twitter gave people a twisted view of the country. It seemed ok for a while because MeToo got some scalps. But that was only because Hollywood, media, universities could be affected. Once Trump hit back you could see how the whole thing crumbled.

Four things happened:

1. #Metoo

2. George Floyd/Defund the Police

3. Gender/Trans Issues

4. The Democratic Covid OVER response

Democrats jumped on the social media/Twitter bandwagon and thought there was some huge movement for change. Instead, the country saw it as an overreach, and what we're experiencing now is the backlash from those four things.

In the case of # MeToo, it was hard to convince people that, in many cases, the women knew exactly what they were getting into.

In the case of George Floyd/Defund the Police, the assignment was for the police to stop killing black people. No one asked for no policing or defunding the police. No one asked to let criminals go free and let major cities turn to shit. No one asked to stop showing Gone With the Wind, take down statues, and change the names of buildings.

In the case of Gender/Trans Issues, in an effort not to appear as bigots, Democrats totally misread the country's take on this. Twitter is not the electorate.

The Democratic COVID response was a reaction to Trump's bundled response, but it was too much and hypocritical.

Quite frankly, the wackier social media gets, the more Democrats get blamed for the craziest social media positions. There are ways to be fair, welcoming, socially responsible, and progressive without embracing bad choices, lawlessness, and common sense. I think most Democrats understand that, but get shouted down by loonies.

Nailed it r48. Lots of performance art from the left hasn’t helped either. The San Fran school board wasted time and $ renaming schools while the schools themselves were closed. They got their facts wrong half the time while the parents were going absolutely nuts.

[quote]4. The Democratic Covid OVER response

Over a million dead with Trump being *directly* to blame for hundreds of thousands of those deaths. But yeah, the Democrats OVER responded.

[quote]Is this whole country collapsing into an ignorant, hateful shithole?

Pretty much:

Trump always had the power to deal with the COVID pandemic. By nationalizing a few Kock Bros paper factoriers they could have churned out billions of masks and made shutting the economy unnecessary. Only the president had that authority and Trump was certainly willing to use it: he threatened to nationalize the meat packing plants to keep the supply of beef flowing when workers were keen on striking for lack of PPE. He just wasn't willing to do it to save lives.

Democrats today are not extreme left. AOC for example, is a centrist when you compare her policies to what people actually think. Where do these right-wingers get off with all this bullshit? 90% of the woke stuff you see on tv is on Fox, and most of it is fabricated nonsense like when they claimed there was a ":movement" to relabel mothers "birthing vessels" or some such thing. Only incels of the right would create such a movement, but they had Grandma in Nebraska thinking it was all the rage at Barkeley! Really given Fox's daily avalanche of lies, the whole thing should be shut down as a fraud and libel factory.

[quote]‘It Feels Like a War Zone’: Doctors and Nurses Plead for Masks on Social Media

I was reading a thread on instagram full of MAGATS cheering on painting the border wall black. Like: 1) they’re not made of metal in the first place and already get hot in the sun; and 2) you can’t climb a fence in the dark. They’re painfully stupid people who can’t see beyond the performative politics of a racist carnival barker and his insane clown posse.

No paywall

^ There was a dire mask shortage (as well as other supplies) in European countries as well.

[quote]Democrats are pussies who need to quit with the money worshiping of their donors...

Enough of this fable!

A short list of the wealthiest people on the planet ALL donated to TRUMP! It is THEM, the Republicans. There is NO COMPARISON of scale so give that shit a rest!

Certainly the real estate, banking, social media and largely auto manufacturing ALL went for Trump. Those are three of the biggest donors and what's left doesn't compare. Now back to your bashing Nancy Pelosi message boards!

[Quote] Don't know who the Hay woman, but I wonder if Boyd is a magat. What was the meme, OP? There are levels to this. It could be "haha, funny" anyone could laugh all the way up to "Trump's rectum is my home."

It was an anti-Newsom reel reposted from an anti-Newsom attack account that also posts positive things about Trump’s “accomplishments.”

Bothsiding it, r57? Did you miss r52's post?

[quote]By nationalizing a few Koch Bros paper factories they could have churned out billions of masks and made shutting the economy unnecessary.

[quote]Democrats have allowed themselves to be pulled by the currents of “scene” thinking rather than grounded leadership.

I'm willing to consider this, but how on earth did the Biden administration accomplish so much major legislation in two years with a ZERO SEAT lead in the Senate and only a handful of House seats? Could it possibly have been that Biden swung for the fences, and that the despised Chuck Schumer and Speaker Pelosi were actually experts at passing laws?

That's where "leadership" shows its face, the rest is just talk. Millions are wildly impressed with Gavin Newsom (don't worry, they'll turn on him like rabid dogs soon), but again, all of his efforts are news-grabbing shenanigans. Perhaps needed in the moment, but they aren't changing lives and wallets.

This has been a long time coming. When Reagan got rid of the Fairness Doctrine, it heralded the rise of Fox News and all the imitators.

There was always a reactionary element in the U.S. that pined for a return to the days when hetero white Christian (preferably Protestant) males got preferential treatment and everyone else kept their heads down, mouths shut, and knew their place.

But as more progress was made in expanding rights, this element grew and Limbaugh, Fox, Coulter, etc. kept tossing gas on the fire. So more and more people got a daily dose of right wing propaganda, grievance, and constant whining about the so-called "liberal media" to break down public trust in the mainstream news. And this went on for years.

Trump is the culmination of all this rather than the root cause. And now that more people are getting their news from social media, it's much easier for bad actors to lead them down a rabbit hole of bullshit from which they will never emerge.

[quote]A short list of the wealthiest people on the planet ALL donated to TRUMP! It is THEM, the Republicans. There is NO COMPARISON of scale so give that shit a rest!

You win, r63, we'll join you in MAGA.

See the stupidity displayed by posters like R64?

Hon, I didn't write the article. If you feel there is something in the article that is false then say so.

That article says Kamala got most billionaires on her side. Not Trump.

R61, the problem was that Biden was a poor communicator: he hardly did any press conferences or effectively use the Presidential bully pulpit to get his message out there to counter the constant onslaught of "anything Biden and Democrats do is terrible" and "these bills are driving up the deficit" from the Right and Trump. The media only pays attention to the loudest voices.

The Democrats still played by the old rules without realizing that you have to bang your drum constantly and proactively set the narrative as opposed to always being in a position of reacting to it.

The American voting populace, most of whom are neither extreme right nor left, tend to react to what they don’t like at the time and vote for the opposite without a great deal of thought as to the consequences. Then they don’t like the consequences. You get a political landscape that swings back and forth like a guitar string. Right now I see no end to this until we find a common enemy. Otherwise we sure do enjoy ripping into each other.

"No, they have not!

Dems have NEVER trampled the Constitution, approved an attack on Congress, beat police officers to a pulp, palled around with multiple rapists, sucked up to dictators including Putin, trashed our world reputation, or endeavored to literally destroy the rules of law!

What the fuck is even wrong with you?"

Ok, great, that's why I continue to vote for them. But what about all of the other things they've done? It's not like they had zero power when they were in office---everything from welfare reform in the 1990s to giving the previously subsidized tech industry free range to spy on and manipulate people for decades and bailing out the architects of the Recession in the 2000s failing to do anything about campaign finance reform until it was too late in 2010 to being so wildly unappealing that they keep losing to this guy in the 2010s/2020s.

"That's where "leadership" shows its face, the rest is just talk. Millions are wildly impressed with Gavin Newsom (don't worry, they'll turn on him like rabid dogs soon), but again, all of his efforts are news-grabbing shenanigans. Perhaps needed in the moment, but they aren't changing lives and wallets."

I just posted that as a Dem, I only have the party to blame---most of the failures over the past 30 years were absolutely related to legislation or a lack of it. however, I do think that some part of our culture has so fundamentally shifted that simply changing laws is no longer enough. Sad to say---but people have been turned into outrage/instant gratification addicts who NEED to participate in the political process via social media platforms that by their design discourage critical thinking. After they've shot their load for the day, they move on; their life rhythms are timed to match the daily news and commentary cycle, nothing else. Sadly, unless Dems learn how to dominate 24 hour a day coverage or rein in Tech the next time they're back in power, they're always going to be outmatched.

"That article says Kamala got most billionaires on her side. Not Trump."

Who cares who had more? Bottom line, they both had billionaires on their side---the ones who were for Kamala were more than happy to prostrate themselves to Trump when he won.

[quote] [R23], you might want to wipe off your face after you finishing blowing Stephen Miller.

And then explain for the rest of us how you managed to blow a dickless man.

The left’s attack of the “cis white straight male” was a huge contributing factor.

The polls for Democrats are ten times worse than Trump’s R7, and he always polls low and they’re always wrong about him. He’s going to keep getting what he wants until the Dems find their message and the means of disseminating that message, ie a real candidate. They don’t have either and it doesn’t look like they’re going to find it soon. Prepare for a washout in the midterms because it’s coming. Hopefully, when we lose another election that historically we should win, maybe that will wake us up to the fact that we’re getting it all wrong with the voters who are usually on our side.

No, we all love each other here. Fuck off OP.

Well ....it took a while but I did my best,,

[quote] The left’s attack of the “cis white straight male” was a huge contributing factor.

Interesting. The highest incidence of the so-called "deaths of despair" -- drugs, drink, suicide, reckless deaths, preventable illnesses -- was among cis white straight males. The most privileged demographic in Amerikkka. Why should they require coddling or feel their privilege is their entitlement? They should have to work as hard as anyone else who struggles against 'unfounded' attacks on them due to race, ethnicity, gender, national origin and sexuality.

It's the Democratic Party that's collapsing, OP.

The United States of America is currently transitioning into an Empire (i.e. extensive group of states under a single supreme authority).

The Fall will come much later, but first there will be a Pax Americana.

Just like Rome went from Kingdom to Republic to Empire, then had a Pax Romana before the Fall, so will the USA.

Testing…

The white guys dying deaths of despair are decidedly NOT men of privilege. Who gives a fuck about their racial or gender demographic?

The majority of poor people in America are still white. Dems really kicked their lip service to race and gender issues into overdrive after Obama lost so much of the white rural vote had had from the prior election in 2012.

Why? because their strategists overestimated their new "coalition"---racial minorities + upper middle class white voters in purple states. They thought that changing racial and relocation demographics would keep them in power because they didn't believe that young Latinos or Muslims, two groups from which they cultivated movement leaders and who they pinned a lot of their strategy on, would fail to deliver on constituent votes or abandon them.

The Dems need to pursue a ***popular*** progressive political agenda that speaks to the most common needs of the disenfranchised majority, not the most boutique concerns of a dozen minority groups.

[quote]Over a million dead with Trump being *directly* to blame for hundreds of thousands of those deaths. But yeah, the Democrats OVER responded.

They did. Shutting down schools was a giant mistake. I won't even get into what happened to the economies of major blue cities because shutting down schools is something we're going to have to live with for quite some time.

Something truly evil is underfoot. The MAGAs even got my brother. It's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. We can call them morons, but many are educated and otherwise intelligent people. I'm scared.

The cringiest part is MAGAts thinking they'll live in a utopia after they "destroy" their "enemies". A Mad Max christo-fascist ethno-state where you have to show your papers crossing the street and your kid might be deported for tanning too much...JFC

R80 Tear R and D are very very similar. Love the Boutique concerns comment . Especially regarding those of the corporate donor. Ya, AKA their profits. Pukes just throw in a few bones for pissed off Nekkers whose jobs went to China, while they are at lying and sniveling anyway. That way the Necker will feel special enough to get off their truck seat to vote puke too. No bigee the shitshow rolls on enjoy your life.

Bless your heart, r81. Spreading Covid disinformation *and* bashing trans in the other thread. Aren't you a pip?

Sorry, R81, but your premise is incorrect. National testing data show that the academic impact of the school shutdown was largely ameliorated within two years. The impact was most severe among those living in poverty (red states) and those with special needs. Given the huge number of cases that spread through open schools, it is likely that closures saved many, many lives (not many children died from Covid, but they were significant spreaders to their families and their communities at large). No one would argue that the shut downs were a good thing, but they were clearly necessary. As for the social ramifications, we need to place blame squarely on the shoulders of the parents who failed to live up to their responsibilities. When my students returned after the shut down, they all swore like sailors and were extremely rude and inconsiderate. They hadn't been like that before -and they certainly didn't learn that at school. They learned it at home with mommy and daddy!

I understand trauma and PTSD -but for most young people the shut downs weren't all that traumatic. It's time to do the unAmerican thing and take personal responsibility for our behavior and quit blaming everything on other people.

Lol- I love this. America has descended into hate-filled, undemocratic, prejudiced, bigoted, racists, fascist state, led by a narcissistic, predatory, convicted felon whose followers are cult members and just as awful- but somehow it’s all the “Democrats fault”. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[quote]Shutting down schools was a giant mistake.

Tell me you don't care about dead teachers without telling me.

As so many posts in this thread demostrate, Americans are the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet.

[quote]Bless your heart, [R81]. Spreading Covid disinformation *and* bashing trans in the other thread. Aren't you a pip?

Show me one place where I bashed trans people. Go ahead, I have to run to the store, but I'll be back to check.

.

It’s a golden age! 🇺🇸

I don't know about shutting down schools (like most normal people, I always thought that slowing the spread during early stages when hospital beds were full and people were losing their shit because of the spectre of the unknown was essential, and that Republicans only resisted because it was harshing Trump's mellow), but both sides politicized moronic aspects like mask waring relentlessly FOR YEARS after it was relevant. Believe it or not, there were Dems in my city who wanted to mandate or strongly encourage people (yes, there were people who suggested the former) to wear masks OUTDOORS in 92 degree weather during the No Kings protests earlier this spring.

[quote]Lol- I love this. America has descended into hate-filled, undemocratic, prejudiced, bigoted, racists, fascist state, led by a narcissistic, predatory, convicted felon whose followers are cult members and just as awful- but somehow it’s all the “Democrats fault”. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

You beat me to it, R87. The attempts at bothsiderism when we are witnessing one side working overtime to turn the country into an authoritarian state are absurd.

[quote] The Fall will come much later, but first there will be a Pax Americana.

There was a Pax Americana after WW2, but it's dead in a ditch now, executed by the fascist camarilla behind Trump.

Stop the delusional comparisons of the USA to the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire actually was great, the US just had some good timing with WW2 and were clever enough to capitalize on it for half a century.

[quote]This has been a long time coming. When Reagan got rid of the Fairness Doctrine, it heralded the rise of Fox News and all the imitators.

Since the Fairness Doctrine, like EVERYTHING the FCC enforces, only applied to BROADCAST television, please explain how that relates to Fox News.

Reagan has been out of the White House for over 35 years.

R1 and those saying stuff like him, even if the Democrats needed to moderate their views in those areas to win voters, that wouldn't justify Trump's actions or people supporting him for it.

A reasonable answer to the illegal immigration problem is not sending people to a concentration camp in a country they didn't come from. I would add that is being done rather poorly with no concern for due process and completely legal people have been caught up in the mess.

A reasonable answer to an increase in homelessness is not rounding all of them up and locking them up who knows where. Probably another concentration camp.

A reasonable answer to an increase in carjackings in one part of a city is not the Trump takeover of DC.

A reasonable answer to a bit too much "wokeness" in some areas like Trans surgeries for minors is not the removal of Smithsonian exhibits and telling states they should remove rainbow colored crosswalks.

All those things you listed are being used by Trump as justification to destroy this country. That's literally what his highness is doing by making himself king.

R83 It's already happening.

R97 It doesn't seem like "reasonable" approaches have delivered what the majority of the country wanted. Like it or not, we got what we deserved. All the histrionics from the left have and will do nothing. Why can't the Democrats do better in terms of unity and messaging? The party is like some pathetic island of misfit toys. Get your shit together people or the midterms are going to be yet another disappointment.

How can we have a solid plan for the future when we still worship the randomness of the market? Is anything more important than profit? Freedom? Human life? Fairness?

"All those things you listed are being used by Trump as justification to destroy this country. That's literally what his highness is doing by making himself king."

Of course they're going to be used as justification for Trump's self-serving, sociopathic agenda. In what world would they not be?

The concerns are not manufactured or fake---they're real. Dems and Republicans will address them because they're there---if the Dems could do more than oscillate between celebrating and passive aggressively defending things like open borders and puberty blockers then it would certainly be preferable to Trump's bait and switch/smash and grab, but they don't.

R100 is right.

Democrats never defended open borders. Typical disinformation response. Remember Republican liars are PAID to l ie. That's their BUSINESS. A Sean Hannity would have been a bartender at best had he not signed up to lie for money, and there are a million others like him, more than double the number of advertising professionals in the whole nation, which are part of the right wing lie machine.

The Republican agenda isn’t driven by the people, it’s driven by the top to conquer and divide.

[quote]Democrats never defended open borders.

LOL.

[quote]Democrats never defended open borders.

Axios - Jul 15, 2025

"Illegal border crossings hit decades low under Trump crackdown"

R10q, you'd be better off admitting you're fine with the fascist takeover because you don't like the people impacted so far than continue your bs.

A few kids taking puberty blockers, while bad, does not mean one installs a crazy dictator. Same with the homeless and all the other things. And people have local governments that can handle those things. If they don't handle them, then those local voters can handle the problem IF they want to. If they don't, too bad for those in other areas who disagree. Trump has no business doing 99% of what's he done so far. Anyone who supports him still is a vile person or a cultist.

Biden and Obama deported more immigrants than Trump ever did, but please continue your zombie horseshit talking points.

She really breaks it down about rural America. Everything she says is the truth.

Oh, that's just some little MAGA foot soldier being unfuckable over the weekend and channeling his frustration here.

Did anyone hear about the Epstein files?

For all the baseless hate spewed by MAGA, the vast majority of people here illegally are respectful, hard-working, law-abiding people who just want a stable life and for their kids to have a shot at it better than they did.

I’d rather an illegal in the country than a resentful, entitled POS hick that’s reliant on social subsidies and angry because they perceive brown people have it as ‘good’ as they do.

R10&, you can keep repeating your ignorant talking points, but you are not fooling anyone who knows anything about immigration.

The idea that Obama and Biden were deporters in chief rests on pretending that all removals are equal. They turning someone away at the border, removing them just after they crossed, or deporting someone who had committed crimes is EXACTLY the same as rounding up working fathers and mothers and people who have been here for years.

This will not stop you, since a modicum of research would reveal your foolishness.

^For r110.

Could somebody translate R113's typos and gibberish into English?

"I’d rather an illegal in the country than a resentful, entitled POS hick that’s reliant on social subsidies and angry because they perceive brown people have it as ‘good’ as they do."

Well, that's the issue, isn't? The Dems pushed the "immigrants are magical because they work 3 jobs and don't ask for raises or benefits" narrative instead of maintaining the more reasonable line that immigrants are our neighbors, friends, and family and shouldn't be dehumanized or treated as dispensible.

That "immigrants deserve jobs" narrative doesn't work one anyone except for employers or their managers. Black people, in particular, hate it; poor white people hate it; even immigrants themselves don't like it. Trust me---there are illegals who think there is a problem with illegals.

Also, a lot of illegal immigrants are on social services. They may not get them all through federal programs, but there are enough state/local and public-private projects that provide some form of assistance.

"Democrats never defended open borders."

Unfortunately, lots of Dems did and do. I'm talking about people I know in politics, but I imagine Julian/Joaquin Castro did too.

Starlink got Trump the win.

[quote]For all the baseless hate spewed by MAGA, the vast majority of people here illegally are respectful, hard-working, law-abiding people who just want a stable life and for their kids to have a shot at it better than they did.

In what countries can you walk across their border and start living and working without documents and expect to remain there, unbothered.

List them.

Not the United States. Asylum seekers have to wait 180 days to apply for a work permit.

It's always fascinating when a troll activates a new account.

The leaders don’t fix problems, they blame immigrants. It’s easy. Meanwhile healthcare’s a scam, wages don’t move, and the rich laugh while we fight each other.

Look at healthcare. People say, “I don’t wanna pay for foreigners.” So nobody gets decent care. Bills shoot up, ERs jammed, insurance a rip-off. Every other country figured out it’s cheaper to cover everybody. Not here. Here we’d rather argue about it while the system rots.

The rich don’t give a damn. They make money off cheap labor anywhere they can find it. And while they count their cash, our tax money goes to wars and playing world cop. Schools? Roads? Falling apart.

And here’s the kicker: almost everything we buy is made across the Pacific. Why? Mexico and Central America are right here. Closer, cheaper, faster. We could build jobs there and here, cut the poverty, and fix supply chains. But no. We’d rather fight the neighbors instead of working with them.

America loves an enemy. First the Russians, then Muslims, then Black Lives Matter, now immigrants. Always someone to blame. Meanwhile nothing gets fixed, the country slips, and people get angrier.

It’s time to quit hating and start thinking. Bring work back to the Americas, invest in the future, and stop letting the rich play us for suckers. The US is a good 30 years behind China.

Note what R120 does. As if those millions are all "asylum seekers".

[quote]Every other country figured out it’s cheaper to cover everybody.

They've also figured out that in order to be able to do that, you have to kick out those who have no right to be there.

R27 and r41 nails it.

[quote]but I imagine

Yes, r117, you do...vividly.

If Star Trek is anything to go by, we're already a year late for the Bell Riots, and we have a world war coming up next year.

The mess we’re in? It’s what happens when Americans trust the free market to fix everything. Jobs left for cheaper labor overseas, factories closed, towns died, and cheap Chinese goods replaced decent paychecks.

The government subsidized farmers, but not workers. China invested and controlled the industies. Americans swallowed the lie that retraining would save them.

Now anger is real but misdirected. Immigrants are not stealing jobs. Corporations and bad policy gutted them. People lash out at scapegoats while the real winners laugh all the way to the bank.

[quote]In what countries can you walk across their border and start living and working without documents and expect to remain there, unbothered. List them.

European Union - residents of one EU member country can relocate and work in other member countries.

Gulf states - same.

19th century United States - Italians and Irish fled to the US by the millions, relocated for work and nobody gave a fuck.

Brazil has had a rather large Haitian community working in the Amazon for years.

Next idiot troll talking points?

[quote]He’s going to keep getting what he wants until the Dems find their message and the means of disseminating that message, ie a real candidate.

Ok. So what exactly is this message and by what means would you be disseminating it to voters. Please remember just which cohorts actually show up to vote.

Please keep in mind that the public fully believes that the President has full control on the price of eggs and gas!

[quote]The highest incidence of the so-called "deaths of despair" -- drugs, drink, suicide, reckless deaths, preventable illnesses -- was among cis white straight males. The most privileged demographic in Amerikkka.

Yes, but they do not IDENTIFY as such and as we know self ID runs the show now!

[quote]Dems really kicked their lip service to race and gender issues into overdrive after Obama lost so much of the white rural vote had had from the prior election in 2012.

Yet without Obamacare and the ridiculously hard-fought Medicare expansion most of these white rural voters would be six feet under. Fact.

So, there's that...

the tariffs are kicking in, coffee, tea, chocolate and other things are going up...

Open borders is a GOP thing. It fits in 10 with LIBERTARIANS, adn 2) George W. Bush, who didn't prosecute ANY employers for hiring illegals during term 1, and that is when most Islamic people came here. Barack Obama was famous for deporting more peoople. People didn't come during the Trump years because the economy was sluggish, while it was better in Latin America. That changed under Biden. But it also changed due to legal changes that Trump made.;

"Yet without Obamacare and the ridiculously hard-fought Medicare expansion most of these white rural voters would be six feet under. Fact."

Please. People turned against Obama because he capitulated to billionaires with lightning speed. People didn't want the banks to get bailed out; it was very begrudgingly accepted in service of the economy, but Congress and the Executive could have easily punished some of the gaudiest offenders, and prevented the companies that were bailed out from spending government $$ on stock buy-backs and bonuses. They used the Recession to adopt some weak banking guardrails, and didn't even try to claw power back from the billionaire and investor classes.

For ANY American to pretend that our entire domestic economy doesn't completely rely on very inexpensive immigrant labor, both legal and not is completely deranged!

Answer me why NONE of these hayseed red state farmers aren't being carted off to prison for illegally hiring immigrant labor! Then we can talk.

R134---true, but some Dems have been conned into believing it. Neither Obama nor Biden really went after employers like they should of (of course, Trump hasn't at all---he even pardoned one of the worst offenders upon the end of his first term). Unfortunately, there were (and still are, I'm guessing) a lot of immigration rights strategists in the Dem orbit who would fight you hard and imply that you were racist and xenophobic if you even tried to propose that the Biden admin target employers. They would use ineffective arguments like "a lot of small business owners who hire undocumented are immigrants, too," but in reality you could tell it was because they wanted to protect the immigrant exploiters that exist in any diaspora.

R137 Wait a minute. Trump pardoned individuals convicted of hiring illegals? AND THIS NEVER CAMR UP NOT ONCE DURING THE 2024 election season. Wow. The Democrats didn’t want to win.

It did some up. You didn't hear it becasue you were caught in a Fox News bubble. What else came up is that Trump torpedoed an immigration reform bill that had bpartisan support so he could run on immigration, meaning he had no0 interest iin solving the problem, just on using it to hi advantage. All this was known TO EVERY SINGLE VOTER.

Racism, not immigration was Trump's polatform, and genoicide of the poor and minorities his only popular program.

R139 BS. This should have been part of the campaign rhetoric. Being discussed on some show on CNN. So a town of 30,000 knew, lol. Just like we heard non stop Trump is a threat to democracy. This is proof. The man who is the face of anti illegal immigration pardoned people convicted in participating in it. It should have been said over and over and over again. Also I don’t watch Fox News nor do I even have cable. That was weird. What made you conclude that.

[quote]European Union - residents of one EU member country can relocate and work in other member countries.

^ See the idiocy of R129. LOL.

"EU member country" ....try being OUTSIDE of the EU.

And the same applies for the rest of your ridiculous list.

I can't even say "nice try".

They did say over and over that he bloocked the immigration reform bill. It made no difference. Immigration was not the issue moron, racism was.

The bill he torpedoed came up sure. Also somehow Trump is the most powerful non president we ever had. I didn’t think he was but so many liberals have basically told me this by things they say. He is just uber powerful even when not president.

Trump pardoned people convicted of championing illegal immigration? This within itself should have made him unelectable. It was over after the debate in June 24. Trump was deeply unpopular, just slightly more popular than sitting administration. But after that debate regular bros and his, who can’t even explain the difference capitalism vs socialism, was like—inflations sucks and the democrats are lying to my face”.

He was unelectable. They elected him anyway b ecause they wanted to kill the poor and minorities. Period. You keep acting like they were fooled. They were not fooled. They knew he was psychologically distrurbed, morally depraved, and cognitively deficient. They knew he was a rapist and pedophile. They knew he was a business fraud, a tax cheat, a charity fraud, and a Russian agent. They CHOSE to put a madman in charge of nuclear weapons. You can't explain that as IGNORANCE or a "messaging problem" by the other side. It is PURE EVIL, the death wish of a pack of lemmings.

Now if you want to ask how can Democrats appeal to people are evil, hypocritical, and phoney, I think the answer is obvious: self-interest. Nothing the Republicans have done has been anything but fascist theater. Even their evil is half-assed and incompetent.

R145 First of all, they don’t know he is psychologically disturbed. Morally depraved sure, but they think all politicians are. Their brains are also so fucking dumb, and low rent that they think anyone who supports transgenderism is psychologically disturbed.

The Democrats could have won last year. I will say this until I’m old and gray. It’s a messaging problem. How the fuck does somebody like Donald J. Trump win 20% of the black male vote 8 years after a black democratic president. Asians and Hispanics voting Republican in numbers not seen since the 80s. Fuck is we talkin bout. Sexism, sure. Yes, it’s a fucking messaging problem. And then someone who behaved like they belong in, at best a retirement home ,at worst a fucking hospice, debated a megalomaniac for 2 hours and the REFUSED TO back down until very last minute. You can’t understand how that played out to a general populace. Stop living in academia.

Lifelong Democrat here. If you want to blame someone, blame Obama. When he came into office with an imploding economy, he did nothing. Nothing as to help anyone who was caught up in losing everything. Banks and Wall Street made out great. A whole massive section of the of the country lost everything. They seethed over this for his entire term. My brothers and sisters were examples. Very normal. open minded. By the time Fox got their hooks into them and the end of the Obama era, they were ready for Jack the Ripper to get in. They got one.

Jesus -- I need to increase my anti-depressant dosage after reading all this.

WTF happened to all our gossip and pointless bitchery?

That made me feel happy -- and gay!

Liar R140. He passed a stimulus bill. He also proposed financial regulations which were adopted and then set aside by Congress. Republicans obstructed him at every turn, and so did a few t urncoat emocorats like Conrad Burns, Mary Landirieu and Nelson from Florida. Yet he got ACA passed, which would have worked better at controlling cost if it had a public option as he proposel. This "do nothing" moniker is fraudulent and everyone knew it.

David Plouffe gave some excellent commentary right after the election. It is just very hard for democrats to win electorally. Last year wasn’t a one off. This has been a problem since the 90s. Clinton would have lost in 92 had Ross Perot not run. He had so much charisma with great political instincts, he easily won reelection. Fast forward 2000, even outside the drama in Florida, the democratic candidate received more votes than the Republican who won the presidency. Then we have the Obama era. Any Democrat, outside of some scandal, would have won in 08 because the economy was completely fucked. But both elections Obama made sure the base turned out in stealth mode. It’s required for the democrats to win an electoral election. Every young person, every black person, actually went out and voted, especially in swing states. Come 2016, the democrat once again received more votes than the republicans who won the presidency.

The country’s center right yes indeed but the Republican Party is not more popular than the Democratic Party. It’s a very complex issue to tackle. Is the answer to go more left as it pertains to economics? Internet and social media now affect electoral politics in ways never imagined. I think today we need a candidate who is an economic populist( think Sandeers or Madmani) but also is seen as normative when it comes to social politics. Young black and Latino were naturally democrats in past generations. Even the ones that are not MAGA and don’t vote Republican, aren’t aligning themselves to the party. We have to fix this before it too late. Because one they start career, getting married, having kids, you know formulating their adult “identity”, it become really difficult to alter someone’s political mold.

To win the electoral college, you must win a certain percentage of white people because of how their population is dispersed. For every percentage under that threshold, you must increase the turnout of the base or groups that have historically voted democratic. Obama successfully did that. Thats why is bizarre to me that people keep saying the next candidate has to be a white male. Are you actually engaging the data? Are you actually remembering the past 40 years of electoral politics. Democrats need to stop painting white males as the villains. And the candidate needs to be a rock star.

Young black and Latino males* were naturally democrats. I meant to include the word male. That’s an important distinction

Excellent commentary R151. I have a less pessimistic overall outlook— the US presidency has been split 50/50 D and R going back five or six decades, and that looks to continue — but your concerns for 2028 are a bullseye. Thanks.

R151, That just goes to show you how outdated the electoral college is today and should be abolished. We should elect the president by popular vote. Every vote should have equal weight in a democracy. Republicans can only win when they rig the system, or rely on an outdated system(electoral college).

The popular vote is vulnerable to manipulation the same way people buy advertising. MAGA’s message is that everyone is self-interested and so therefore, their voters should also be self-interested. It sets up a world in which people either exploit or are exploited, which is already deeply embedded in the culture because that’s the way businesses are run. What business is allowed to not fire someone because of the impact it would have on their family? What working person can walk past three homeless people on the way to the subway and have practical thoughts about all those people getting help? We’re already deconditioned from feeling like we need to actively help people, and we’re conditioned at the same time to be constantly afraid for ourselves. And I would give money to homeless people frequently, but what is $10 really going to do? We’re very much programmed to think that if we don’t follow the orders of someone who has power to give orders, we could suffer, and pull our families down with us. Fascism is the extreme form of that, but just going along with the status quo, getting up every morning and marching to work like a robot to keep the system going despite the obvious ways it wasn’t working, was already heading in that direction. We have needed for a long time now to figure out a housing and food distribution system not reliant on work, and that is even more important with AI.

"European Union - residents of one EU member country can relocate and work in other member countries.

Gulf states - same.

19th century United States - Italians and Irish fled to the US by the millions, relocated for work and nobody gave a fuck.

Brazil has had a rather large Haitian community working in the Amazon for years.

Next idiot troll talking points?"

EU (only for other EU members), the US 150-200 years ago, Brazil...what about the rest of the countries?

No! We just wanted to stop the trans and the endless wars!

R150, are you serious---"he passed a stimulus bill?" What did it stimulate except for a big upwards transfer of wealth?

Bottom line---Obama presided over a sharp uptick in the ever-widening wealth gap, didn't do dick about campaign finance reform, and he certainly did punish Finance for it's role in the Recession (on the contrary, he handed Fannie & Freddie Max over to them after taxpayers bailed them out).

More idiocy from R157.

The EU is a political UNION. You cannot just move to the EU without proper documents otherwise you will be expelled. Got it idiot?

Furthermore, even EU members need to show their CITIZENSHIP if moving from one country within in the EU.

And if moving you, " need to register your residency with the host country's authorities after three months and may need to prove you have stable financial resources, health insurance, and appropriate accommodation to support yourself." Understand?

Are you really that stupid to think it's a fee-for-all?

19th century United States? LOL. Bud, this is the year 2025.

Brazil? Try going to Brazil without a visa.

The Gulf States: Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates. Again: if you are not a citizen of any of them, try moving to them without a visa and proper documentation... and see what happens.

"The popular vote is vulnerable to manipulation the same way people buy advertising. MAGA’s message is that everyone is self-interested and so therefore, their voters should also be self-interested.@

All true---and there are going to be times when selfishness wins out because it's the path of least resistance. But a political project with message on trading in selfishness for solidarity would do a lot to start to erode the "I need to make sure I get mine" ethos that really became normalized in the 1980s. The Dems don't even invoke solidarity against the ruling class---instead they appeal to personal or identity group interests, and rely on guilt as a motivator for everything else.

Shutting down the schools too long was a major error.

Yes but on the other hand we're also getting extremely fat to cushion the fall

Oooops, sorry, the post at R159 is in response to R156 NOT R157.

The United States is over. O-V-E-R. Over.

The rich need to be eliminated Even the so-called friendly rich like Gates really set all this up, much as they might pretend to hate it.

Republicans scam these people over and over and every time they are allowed to govern they fuck it up AND engage in an orgy of corrupttion, but STILL the dumb ass white people of this country come out for them. I just don't get it. Half of America really needs to die or civilization itself has no future.

I rarely say this in other situations, but in this case I'm glad I'm old.