Ahead of Monday's meeting with Zelenskyy, European leaders: Trump tells Zelensky to give up Crimea and agree to never join NATO

Ukraine must have security guardrails in place before agreeing to anything. Ukraine must be protected; otherwise, Putin will just bide his time and invade Ukraine again.

Why can't Ukraine join NATO? If Putin is intent on peace, why should he care or get to dictate how Ukraine is protected?

I hope there's a brawl. Pile on Trump!

I hope it ends like the final act of "Weapons".

Ukraine MUST join NATO.

End this fucking stranglehold that Putin wants to have on nations who want peace.

Fuck Putin. Fuck Trump. Americans like Zelenskyy, he's one of the good guys.

R5, how sad that Americans like Zelenskyy, yet voted to put his fate into the hands of a shitbag like Trump.

Not all EU countries are part of NATO. If Ukraine joins the EU, that would still offer protection.

R7. The EU is simply not enough protection that Ukraine needs. Ukraine needs the force of NATO with Europe and the United States included. Both Sweden and Finland are members of the European Union; however, both countries were allowed to join NATO in 2024 because of the threat that Russia poses to EU members. This is especially true of Finland which shares an 800-mile border with Russia and which lost 12 percent of its territory as a result of Russia crossing into Finland during a conflict last century.

No country should be giving up territory to Russia. The country of Russia spans two continents and is large enough. Sovereignty of individual European countries must be maintained without Russian interference.

R6 I was not one of those Americans. I loathe Trump which I can't emphasize enough

Putin thinks that Ukraine is part of Russia. Russia is forever a threat to Ukraine without NATO protection.

"NATO serves as a system of collective security, whereby its independent member states agree to mutual defense in response to an attack by any external party. This is enshrined in Article 5 of the treaty, which states that an armed attack against one member shall be considered an attack against them all."

R8,R10 I wish that it was a realistic goal that Ukraine would recover its sovereignty over Crimea and could join NATO and the EU. I just don't think that's a realistic goal. My guess is that Russia, based on shear numbers, can continue this war for far longer than Ukraine can. They may have to negotiate something. While NATO offers greater protection, it would be chutzpah for Russia to attack the European Union. If there is some way for this war to end with Ukraine and the West getting everything it wants, I'm all for it.

Goddamned motherfucking Putin needs a shiv jammed down his fucking lying throat.

I’m so sick of that toothless, idiotic prick and his bullshit.

Him, that fat orange cunt bitch if his and that cunt flap Netan-yahoo need to be blasted into the sun. If we got rid of those three motherfucking useless eaters, epic pieces of shit, this planet would be much better off.

How much time does Putin have to bid?

Perhaps what really happened at the Alaska summit was Putin told Trump that they hacked into the government computers and got their own copy of the Epstein files, and would be happen to share them with the press.

I noticed that European leaders aren't letting Zelenskyy visit the White House on his own to be humiliated this time. Good. I hope Ursula von der Leyen attends as she has a death stare and I'd like her to point it at Vance et al. Especially when they find out that Trump has offered to give half of Ukariane to Putin and then demands that Zelenskyy apologizes to Putin for invading Russia and starting the war.

R14 Putin has had them for years. I suspect he put Leon Skum up to taunt Dump.

It's how Putin keeps him in line.

[quote]While NATO offers greater protection, it would be chutzpah for Russia to attack the European Union.

Thank goodness Putin is not known for his chutzpah.

Axios: The White House asked Ukrainian officials if President Volodymyr Zelensky will wear a suit to his meeting with President Trump in the Oval Office on Monday. Two sources said Zelensky will show up at the White House on Monday wearing the same black jacket he wore to a NATO summit in the Netherlands in June. “It is going to be ‘suit-style’ but not a full suit,” one of the sources said.

Apparently one must be properly dressed when asked to cede land to an invader.

[quote]“It is going to be ‘suit-style’ but not a full suit,” one of the sources said.

Very good. Sartorial bullying is the least of it, and a war leader has no need to defer to the grotesque Putin-whisperer.

NATO expansion is a mistake, but Ukraine should try aggressively to buy nukes from France or something like that.

How could Obama "give" Crimea to anyone? It is Ukraine's territory, not America's. The fact that Obama didn't intervene, though a mark against his reputation, has nothing to do with any decision either Zelensky or Trump has to make now.

Ukraine gave up its nuclear capability trusting the Russians before. If he thinks they will commit to never joining NATO he has to have a screw loose.

In 1994, Ukraine agreed to transfer these weapons to Russia for dismantlement and became a party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, in exchange for economic compensation and assurances from Russia, the United States and the United Kingdom to respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.[6][7] Almost twenty years later, Russia, one of the parties to the agreement, invaded Ukraine in 2014.

President Volodymyr Zelensky will do NONE of those things.

R21, obviously Putin told Trump that this is all Obama's fault. Plus Trump arguing that Ukraine can't become a part of NATO is what Putin wants. It's despicable. Trump is so empty and weak.

Sorry, R5 — my comment wasn’t meant to imply that you voted for Trump.

[Quote] Why can't Ukraine join NATO?

Because Putin doesn’t want to go to war with NATO for invading Ukraine again. If Ukraine were in NATO, and he invaded, this would trigger Article 5.

So yes, he’s already thinking about invading again. Of course.

[Quote] The fact that Obama didn't intervene, though a mark against his reputation,

I’m actually a critic of Obama, but what?

The Ukrainians put up virtually no resistance to the Russian attack on Ukraine. So what was Obama supposed to do?

How was he supposed to “intervene,” exactly?

Trump has absolutely zero experience in global diplomacy but he thinks he can end wars over lunch like it's a real estate deal. His concept of dealmaking is either figuring out how to grift or get the other person to totally capitulate. His mentality is that Zelensky should just give up. Imagine if the US had told the Churchill to just surrender to Hitler.

[Quote] The Ukrainians put up virtually no resistance to the Russian attack on Ukraine.

Sorry that should have said Crimea, not Ukraine. I was referring to the 2014 attack. The Russians basically walked in and took over Crimea.

Quite some propaganda Russia is putting out. This should be shocking to Boomers at least.

Putin paid for the election interference that got Trump elected WITH Trump's blessing. Putin has all sorts of kompromat on Trump. Trump is FORCED to do his bidding. There's no way Trump can help Ukraine. Putin's threat to expose Trump would land Trump in prison, and he knows this.

"Putin's threat to expose Trump would land Trump in prison, and he knows this."

Trump is already a convicted felon and he has yet to see a nano-second of the inside of a jail cell. He's also a traitorous insurrectionist and most probably a child rapist. Again, no jail time or even a hint thereof. For fuck sake, the man got reelected despite all of this because Americans simply don't give a shit if their POTUS is a violence prone, convicted criminal/pathological liar/sexual predaor/child rapist. Hell, the top "religious" leaders of American adore this asshole.

What exactly could Putin have on Trump that would land him in jail? The Pee Pee Tapes. LOL.

This idea had half entered my mib yesterday.

Don't be surprised if Trump announces on Truth Social tonight that the United States is withdrawing from NATO.

If there was just about anyone else in office, this would be an easy win for Ukraine. Putin is at his weakest, his army is depleted, the Russian economy is at rock bottom. Severe sanctions would finish Putin off. But Putin has so much on Trump he can manipulate him to save his ass. Trump knows this and this is why he keeps saying, "Putin never would have invaded if I was in office" because he's trying to portray himself as savior, instead of the actual reason he's going to give Ukraine to Putin. He's a lump of shit.

Who is the broomstraw-coiffed MAGA hag assigned to greeting the arriving dignitaries this morning?

If Putin has the Epstein files and releases them, Trump is toast. Evan MAGAs wouldn't stand behind him. Hell, if Putin admits the extent of assistance he gave Trump to get elected, the troll farms and other manipulations, that would end if for Trump. Remember, MAGAs are clinging to Trump's denials. Putin has the ability to make Trump's denials a reality.

[quote]Who is the broomstraw-coiffed MAGA hag assigned to greeting the arriving dignitaries this morning?

That sounds like Monica Crowley to me.

He'll flip back after his coffee klatch today with Z and the Euro leaders today. He has no short term memory. He goes with the last person he talked to.

I am hesitant to watch, but must bear witness to, tRump's welcoming President Zelenskyy; will donald keep the Ukrainian president waiting at the curb?

Pretty sure that's why they ended the Alaska meeting so abruptly. Putin laid it all out for Trump. That's why they were "ashen faced" and nervous. Putin informed Trump of what's he's capable of doing should Trump support Ukraine. There's no real "negotiations". There's only Putin's threat to Trump he'll expose him, and he put the fear of God into Trump.

If Putin just laid out the extent of money laundering Trump has been doing for Russian Oligarchs for years, and brings receipts, that alone would end Trump.

Ugh, Trump is meeting Zelenskyy without the latter's support team first:

One potential stumbling block: Trump plans to face the White House press pool with Zelenskyy alone, before meeting together with the Europeans almost two hours later….

What does Zelenskyy’s backup crew want? “What we’re looking out for is the security of Europe not being compromised after all this is over,” said one European diplomat, granted anonymity to speak about the thinking behind the trip. “We’re making sure that we keep the pressure on Russia, ready to step up the sanctions the moment we feel that the Russian leader is stalling the negotiations. Strong security guarantees must come out of this, that’s the main thing.”…

Promises for peace: Meanwhile, allies hope they’ve gotten through about the need for deterrence against future Russian attacks. In an interview with Fox News, Trump’s special envoy Steve Witkoff said there was support for “much more robust security guarantees [and] EU admission” and even suggested “Article 5-like” protection was on the table for Ukraine, a reference to NATO’s mutual defense provisions.

It does NOT MATTER what Pootz has on Dump. It’s a fucking cult and the maggots don’t give a flying fuck what he has done or will do.

As another poster said, he’s already been CONVICTED of 34 felony counts, and the maggots didn’t even blink.

He gives them permission to be their absolute worst, most vile selves and they will never turn on him.

Ever.

The Irish Times goes there:

"I used to be sceptical about claims that Putin had access to kompromat on Trump that explained his grovelling relationship with the Kremlin. But if such kompromat is not the explanation, it is hard to see why the White House is behaving as it does towards Ukraine."

Trump has always been able to declare "witch hunt" and blame it on the democrats. If Putin releases the kompromat on Trump, with receipts, showing Trump's indebted relationship with Putin, the MAGAs will care. Trump can't call Putin a democrat hoax when he's praised Putin for years.

Regarding the "pissers" in the pee-pee tapes ...

"Oh, please let them be ... please let them be ...!"

Putin is the one man who can convincingly announce that, yes, Russia absolutely did interfere in the 2016 election and that if Russia hadn't done that Hilary would have won. That, and that alone, is what would destroy Trump. He would crumple into a pile of ashes.

Agreed, R47; what does Putin have to lose?

[quote]what does Putin have to lose?

A puppet in the White House.

Putin is happy to continue his relationship with Trump and keep Trump the president who actually does his bidding. Putin doesn't want to destroy Trump and risk the presidency going to someone who will play hardball with Russia. Putin played the long game getting Trump elected. Trump works for Putin, and Putin likes it that way.

Ask tRump about his alleged call to Norway begging for the Nobel Peace Prize.

HE might, r47. The orange traitor could very well well suffer a narcissistic collapse, but the maggots will not care.

It’s a cult. Full stop. They will never abandon him, no matter what Putin does or what evidence he has. They will simply deny it. Just like they’ve denied all of the other shit he’s done and lied about.

The only reason Epstein has stuck is because HE promised to release the files and his lackeys also promised to release them. Now, they say the files don’t exist.

That has caused cognitive dissonance in the cult. But they have never cared about Putin stealing elections. Why would they? As long as their orange god wins, why should they give a fuck HOW it was done?

They do care, though. Trump blames everything on the "radical leftist democrats" who are the cult's sworn enemy. Putin and Trump go way back, and Trump simply can't convince them Putin is doing the democrat's bidding. The Epstein files have been a thorn in Trump's ass because he's found it hard to blame the files on the democrats, even though that's what he's been doing lately. If receipts are laid out by Putin, it would be the end of Trump, and probably the republican party altogether.

[quote]If receipts are laid out by Putin, it would be the end of Trump, and probably the republican party altogether.

Trump: The receipts are fake.

Republicans: Yep, the receipts are fake.

MAGAts: That's good enough for us!

Courts: The receipts are proven reality

Courts: Trump was indeed regularly ordering up evenings with 14yo girls via Epstein per the Epsten files.

[Quote] Putin is at his weakest, his army is depleted,

His army isn’t depleted yet though. They are still hitting the 30,000 a month recruitment goal. Of course they are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

For a long time they were taking convicted prisoners, but that well has run dry, so now what they’re doing is making deals with people up on criminal charges but not yet convicted.

All that said, Russia's massive demographic advantage has in the past, and is for the time being, saving their bacon in Ukraine. If we had a president who didn’t side with the aggressors, we could keep Ukraine in the game long enough to watch Russia’s demographic advantage deteriorate. But we don’t have that.

Courts: The 2020 election was not stolen.

Trump: Those 60+ judges are corrupt, the election was stolen.

MAGAts: We believe Trump!

Trump doesn't have the brain power to be POTUS, he's a dummy.