Mother Objects to Trans Employee's Offer at M&S

[quote] a transgender woman employee at a Marks & Spencer store in the UK offered assistance with bra fitting to a 14-year-old girl in the lingerie department.

This isn’t what the article says. Why do you people always lie?

We do not know if the employee was trans or not. The only description was that they were tall.

Also, the Daily Express is one of the most vicious right wing fascist apologist papers out there.

Thank you, R3. I was just about to mention that.

It was a horror visit to the shop.

It’s also in The Independent but it won’t allow links here.

M&S apologises over trans employee in bra department

‘Biological male’ caused a mother and teenage daughter ‘distress’ by approaching them in the lingerie area

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I'd object too.

Are You Being SERVED, diva?!

I don’t understand the objection. Why does the fact that this woman might have been male in the past have anything to do with helping fit a bra?

This trans woman is STILL fundamentally male with, for the girl's mother, an unknown sexual orientation. The mother's objection was not unreasonable.

Sometimes this trans accommodation is out of control, as in this case. These people have to accept that there are reasonable limits. Sometimes life is tough and we can't have everything we want.

R12 = facetious cunt

Why should the store accommodate her bigotry? I bet her daughter is mortified.

R15 - I was just going to say...I'm sure the daughter didn't even care. Mom just wanted to have her J.K. Rowling moment.

R13, why aren't you concerned that a female (cisgender if you must) employee could also be a sexual predator in this scenario? Ghislaine Maxwell could be whisking her off to serve Trump on that island. Or what if the employee were (gasp) a lesbian?

Time to decide if women have the right to see a female gynacologist, rape counselor or bra-fitter

[quote] I was just going to say...I'm sure the daughter didn't even care.

I wouldn't make such an assumption regarding a pubescent minor, or any female for that matter.

Bad faith bullshit, r18. No one is obligated to accept the trans employee's assistance. The mom is an asshole.

R19, ok...then don't?

The article doesn’t even mention a bra fitting does it? This could well have been an employee saying “do you need help with anything?”. I’m guessing this is exactly what happened. Such bad faith.

Why is something like this making international news? If the parent objected, fine; as a customer you're not required to have ANYONE help you with any of your stuff. Just say, "No, thanks." The trans employee isn't making a political statement by merely existing.

Did the employee make a stink about the encounter--that led to this getting picked up by DailyFail--or did the mother? If it was the mother, then fuck her.

Has Jaimie Lee Curtis expressed "outrage" yet?

Mom is a true cunt.

Any TG woman knows a hell of a lot more about fitting a brasier than a cis cunt who just flops her titties into the bags.

No one wants a person with a penis helping a 14 year old girl try on bras. Lots of other jobs at a big department. Pick another hill to die on please.

I wouldn't want it happening to me because when I want a bra fitting I want ahor girl to help me! Do you know what a bra costs gays?

[quote] This trans woman is STILL fundamentally male with, for the girl's mother, an unknown sexual orientation. The mother's objection was not unreasonable.

Every stranger’s sexual orientation is unknown. What is your plan for how society should function? If a feminine looking woman approached them, she could be a lesbian getting her jollies. The world is full of perils, isn’t it?

The mother also doesn’t know definitively the person was trans. She was just taller than a woman is allowed to be in her opinion.

And, lastly, it wasn’t a bra fitting. The person just asked if they needed help—-I.e., doing her job in a position that requires employees to work across departments. Since they could simply reply that they didn’t need any help at that time, it’s not clear why this was such a horror visit.

R28 "The mother also doesn’t know definitively the person was trans."

Women don’t want people with penises in areas where they are undressed. Even a man shopping alone in a lingerie department is kind of creepy. If the worker is truly trans find another department for them to work in.

While I'm against trans-women competing in women's sports, this situation seems a bit over the top. The employee simply asked if she needed assistance. There is nothing wrong with that. The mother and/or daughter could simply say, "no, thank you". They obviously wanted to make a big issue of it.

R29. You’re brilliant and hysterical! Can you post more often?

If there’s one thing we know, the anti-trans hysterics are infallible in guessing the kinds of genitalia people have. There has literally never been a mix-up.

Team mother

Marks & Spencer is a large department store. The women's lingerie section is part of the women's apparel section and isn't segregated or closed off from any other part of the store. No one is walking around undressed outside of a private fitting room. Men and boys will commonly be seen walking through this section of the store or possibly buying something there for a wife or girlfriend. It is not a woman's lingerie shop, it's more like a Macy's. The idea that this 14 year old girl was "freaked out" because a store employee of any gender asked if she needed assistance is absolutely ridiculous. She's either led some kind of bizarre sheltered life or is mentally ill.

Just say no thank you. This idea of being distressed is RIDICULOUS. Years ago we might have giggled at the sight of a trans person offering this service but nowadays we're distressed. Can we all just lighten the fuck up, PLEASE. Just say no thank you. I have such fatigue about everyone getting distressed over things. Shit is going to happen to us sometimes; the law of averages means we won't get tru every day unscathe; just be glad it's not something worse like an illness or a murder.

Women are “”distressed” because they are forced to accept a penis in any and all situations and that to speak against that means the woman is the problem.

And yes, “shit” is going to happen. But no matter how you try to envision the interaction, you have no idea what actually occurred. And, even if you did know, I would also argue that unless you’ve been a 14-year old biological girl, your opinion on how this girl or her mother should have reacted is not valid.

R37 do you know how much of a loser you sound like. If you go into a store a man or a woman or anyone that works there might say “can I help you?” This is not a point of upset. Get a grip of yourself? I really have no idea how you weirdos function in society, you seem so completely weak willed, and completely driven by hysterics. Quite stupid too I might add sorry!

Oh do fuck off R38.

If a transgender woman was offering to personally fit the bra for a 14 year old girl, I'd agree that would be inappropriate. Having read several of the articles posted here, that is NOT what happened in this situation. According to M & S, the employee was a floorwalker (like Captain Peacock on Are You Being Served). They ask if you require assistance and then find someone to help you.

[quote] No one wants a person with a penis helping a 14 year old girl try on bras. Lots of other jobs at a big department. Pick another hill to die on please.

Actually there are plenty of people who don’t give a shit about some stranger’s imagined genitals.

You paint yourself as the voice of reason, but you are demonstrating that you are the opposite.

[quote] And, even if you did know, I would also argue that unless you’ve been a 14-year old biological girl, your opinion on how this girl or her mother should have reacted is not valid.

You know, of course, that that is a standard we could never live by. Not everything a 14-year-old girl (or more accurately, the mother of a 14-year-old girl) complains about can feasibly be treated as a problem. You don’t live by this standard, and no one does.

There was no risk of her being touched without consent. It was merely a general enquiry whether they needed help. The person was not assigned to the bra section and was not asking if the girl wanted her to fit the bra.

Asking to assist someone , especially a 14 year old, with trying on lingerie is freaking weird no matter what age, gender or trans condition. If a sales person asked me for that I'd find it creepy. ESPECIALLY WITH HER MOM THERE. It goes beyond a trans thing.

That said I'd have to know for sure what the trans person said. Maybe she/he just offhandedly said "You need any help, let me know" or something. Because otherwise, it's almost egregiously wrong snd the person should have been fired.

[quote]Imagine her horror, then, when the person to approach us and ask if we needed help was a transgender 'woman', ie, a biological male. This is obviously the case: he is at least 6ft 2in tall... My daughter recoiled, so I politely declined the offer and we left immediately. She was visibly upset and said she felt 'freaked out'.

“May I help you?” was the entire scope of the incident. Unsurprisingly it gets conflated in this thread into some predatory ogre “personally fitting” (?) a bra onto a young girl.

Mom just wanted a payday.

WHO on earth could have predicted all of this DRAMA?

The bigger problem is M&S are refusing to guarantee women only changing spaces. They can fuck off.

[quote] Women don’t want people with penises in areas where they are undressed.

This, basically.

[quote] The bigger problem is M&S are refusing to guarantee women only changing spaces. They can fuck off.

If you were they, would you want to be in the business of determining who is a woman and who is not?

They need to offer single use changing cubicles then.

[quote] Women don’t want people with penises in areas where they are undressed.

You know, in many countries of the word, nudity is not considered a sexual act. In others, women are considered so inherently sexual that they must be covered in fabric if they appear in public. Which society do you want to emulate?

[quote] They need to offer single use changing cubicles then.

I’m pretty sure they do. But that’s not good enough, is it?

People freak out about penises in the women’s bathroom or vaginas in the men’s even though they will never see them because the toilets are enclosed.

You are choosing to be a victim of nothing.

This does seem like an over-reaction - she didn't ask to help her with a bra, just a 'do you need help?'.

Did the mom really think the salesperson was going to fondle her daughter's tits right in front of her?

I am critical on trans issues - but this is overreach.

Perhaps in the future, if in a lingerie department, they can say - may I get someone to help you? Now, I will admit - some of this also depends on 'how transitioned' the person is.

If we've got some 6'2" linebacker with long hair and mascara on, then this could be weird.

Under the very most charitable interpretation of the woman’s complaint, they were inconvenienced by the presence of a trans person. The employee simply asked a general question whether they needed help. All that was required was a response of “not at this time”, which may mean they felt they had to go to another shop or come back at smother time when the employee wasn’t there in order to avoid dealing with a trans person. Which would be quite inconvenient. But nothing remotely threatening happened. The child was at no risk of physical interaction with the employee unless she wished it.

The mom want's a substantial M&S gift card or compensation.

Like other countries, England has a whole class of dole recipients looking for some sort of additional hand-out.

Why would you even go to the press over this? Because she wants MONEY or something for free.

Anyone who has worked anywhere selling anything knows there are customers FROM ALL BACKGROUNDS who want something for free. And they feel they will get it if they complain enough.

Doesn't matter what you're selling.

R47 When did this happen in M & S? The mother and daughter were looking at bras in a completely public space in a department store. A floorwalker that worked that entire floor asked them if they needed any help. Had they needed assistance, they would have been referred to someone in lingerie. No one was undressed in the middle of the department store.

I mostly agree with R44, the Mom is seeking $$$ and/or max media attention outta this.

At the same time... a store like Marks & Spencer has to think it through. "Do you need any help?" seems innocuous enough, but what might "help" mean if the customer is a young teenage girl wanting to buy a bra and unsure of the sizing. I can understand the discomfort if an obvious six foot two transwoman is the store employee asking if you want or need help, and in a matter of seconds you have to think, wait, what happens now if I say Yes to this person? Will this person be touching my daughter's body? What happens if I request a female to help me and then the shit hits the fan because this person will insist they ARE female? Etc.

Stores should probably not put transwomen (biologically male) in female-lingerie-related customer interaction positions.

The Mom wants money and the right wing media wants to suppress trans people by making them seem like dangerous monsters after our children.

Id be very suspicious of any alleged employee who asked if needed help in M&S. They are usually impossible to find when you do want them

Oh, to hell with them. Let 'em droop.

[quote] can understand the discomfort if an obvious six foot two transwoman is the store employee asking if you want or need help, and in a matter of seconds you have to think, wait, what happens now if I say Yes to this person? Will this person be touching my daughter's body?

How about “Yes thank you?” And if and when the person with the presumed penis actually asks your daughter to undress in front of her, at that point you politely ask “Is there someone else who could help with this?”

Respect and patience, not fear and disgust.

It's entirely possible that this mother/daughter duo set this up on purpose. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out that Mum is part of some anti-trans activist group. That will be hilarious if someone recognizes them and comes forward.

[quote] At the same time... a store like Marks & Spencer has to think it through. "Do you need any help?" seems innocuous enough, but what might "help" mean if the customer is a young teenage girl wanting to buy a bra and unsure of the sizing.

The employee approached the girl in the presence of her mother. It wasn’t some forlorn vulnerable minor.

Would you like me to undress your minor daughter and measure her tits?

Bras to the left dilators on the right.

R37 here, ive thought more about this and that trans lady must be something humiliated. She's holding down a job, trying to fit into society and this is pure prejudice or homophonic behaviour that im sure gays got at one time. I was quite Fey as a teen and I recall in my first job this middle aged couple came in with a teen girl, maybe 12. Well, she just laughed at me..like I was the biggest joke ever. The couple were mortified, as was I. She literally couldny control her fits of laughter at my gay-voice. I just kept going, and the more she laughed. They muttered, stop that, and i tried to bluster on but I was mortified. . And I was afraid to speak in public for years afterwards.

If you're going to slam a major department store and defame them, then your name should not be kept confidential.

There was no tort here - no harm done and no provable intention of harm. Just someone taking a question and running wildly with their imagination.

I hate siding with corporations - but I hate scammers and bullshit artists even more.

R65. That's one of the most humane and honest posts I've seen on DL. Odd to see it on the cesspool of a trans thread.

All the mother had to do was say " I would prefer to have an older and more experienced sales lady assist us" and keep it moving

R68 - or even more directly - "yes, is there a woman who can help with bra fittings and sizes?"

But more to the point, this woman is looking for a payout or free shit. 100%.

But there is my pussy to be considered.

I tried to talk to Jill about her period..

This is one of the many problems with the trans-hating wave we've currently experiencing. It empowers the nastiest and craziest people in the world to ruin the lives of innocent people. And I'm sure the mother thinks she's some kind of hero/warrior/victim. All while angling for a big payout.