Was Madonna realistic as an Argentine woman?

I think so. They were both brunettes that bleached their dark hair blonde. The both had French roots (Madonna French Canadian, Eva French Basque).

Aren't a lot of Argentinians of Italian extraction?

They're basically the Italian-Americans of the southern cone.

She was great in that movie—really surprised me.

Argentines, however, hated her at first. I visited Argentina and there was graffiti all over that said “Viva Evita! Fuera Madonna!”

But she did convince the president to allow the filmmakers to use the true Casa Rosata balcony

There are more Italian-Argentinians than there are Italian-Americans.

She was wholly realistic in terms of overall ethnicity/looks. Critics were divided about her acting ability but I thought she did very well.

R2 & R4 yes, Argentina's population is predominantly of European descent (the biggest groups being Italian, Spanish, German, French in that order) due to a large wave of immigration from Europe in the late 19th/early 20th centuries.

Eva Peron was of French/Spanish descent.

She was not Mestizo (Indian/Spanish mix) which many Latinos are, but not in Argentina.

Lefties often complain about Madonna's casting for the film version, but she's of French/Italian descent, so the joke's on them.

Argentines are Italians who speak Spanish who think they are British.

[quote]She was great in that movie—really surprised me.

YouTube made EVITA free to watch a few months ago.

I too was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed it, including Madonna's performance.

Beautifully shot, gorgeous costumes, thousands of extras, wonderful orchestrations, and I appreciated that they lowered the score and didn't have someone constantly belting (i.e. shouting) which would get tiresome in close-up.

Juan Perón was of Italian descent (Sardinia) and his family surname was originally Peroni that was Hispanicized in Argentina.

Just like a lot of non-Anglo immigrants Anglicized their names in the USA.

[quote]Argentines are Italians who speak Spanish who think they are British.

I learned years ago to never call Argentinians "Latino." Holy shit do they get all out of sorts and mad over that! As far as Argentinians are concerned, they are Europeans who live in South America. They hate being put under the "Latino" umbrella, which is insulting to them.

Everyone came over to Argentina after WW2 and pretended that nothing happened in Europe—Italians, Germans, Jews, etc

Argentines are proud of genociding its native Indian populations

The Golden Globes gave Pia Zadora an award for her acting too.

That's really all you need to know about their judgement.

R10, they sound irritating.

Madonna is rarely realistic as Madonna.

Italian Americans are usually Sicillian and sou thern Italian. Argentine Italians are usually northern Italians. I think Eva Person was more a fanatical true believer than just a narcissistic whore. Madonna found playing the latter easier.

She’s wonderful in Evita. It’s like a long video and videos are what she always did best.

[quote] Argentine Italians are usually northern Italians.

Ewww. No wonder they're notorious cunts.

R15 I'm reminded of this scene from "Golden Girls."

BLANCHE: Well, I loved her.

ROSE: The name Madonna doesn't really fit her.

SOPHIA: Slut would be better.

DOROTHY: Please, she did things on that stage I never did with my husband.

I ❤️ Madge, & I hope she’s having an amazing summer with her family & friends.

She’s not realistic as anything.

Bitch can’t act.

WRONG, R21.

She did quite well in her portrayal of Peron. And she was fantastic in Desperately Seeking Susan.

There was something so uncomfortably "meta" about Madonna pleading-singing "YOU MUST LOVE ME" at the following Oscars. That was her reputation at that moment: PLEASE love me, PLEASE finally garner me with artistic respect, PLEASE??!! It was moving yet "cringe" watching her perform that particular song. You'll recall she, and Evita the soundtrack, were entirely shut out from the Grammy nominations that year, though the song did win an Oscar for its category (and the soundtrack got 3 or 4 additional nominations).

Ray Of Light a year or two later really changed her cultural 'vibe', in a positive way. Much more current-sounding and much less needy.

R23, you realize she didn't write You Must Love Me, correct?

And have you seen the movie and the context of the song?

Because you sound, well, dumb.

R16, well over half of all Argentinians are of Italian descent and they came from all over Italy, first from the north and then from the south.

R19 I wish that entire episode was devoted to conversations around attending that concert.

Blanche: Girls, girls…how about we do something exciting and wild this Saturday night…let’s go see that Madonna in concert! Her songs are all over the radio.

Sophia: Why would I want to pay to see some broad sing off-tune while she prances around in her underwear?! I could do that for free watching you at The Rusty Anchor.

Dorothy: Ma! All my students dress like her now. You wouldn’t believe the amount of fishnet and exposed belly buttons in my classroom. Probably explains why I’ve been eating so much tuna salad for lunch lately.

Rose: Jesus’s mother became a singer?!

[quote]That was her reputation at that moment: PLEASE love me, PLEASE finally garner me with artistic respect, PLEASE??!!

That's every single fucking entertainer who has ever lived.

R24, I know all of those things. The moment still felt like what it felt like, to many people watching. Ray Of Light was a totally fresh pivot from Evita, in good ways.

[quote] Critics were divided about her acting ability.

Some think she’s awful. Others say she’s abysmal.

[quote]She did quite well in her portrayal of Peron.

She did okay, acquitted herself well. No Oscar nom and almost any other actress considered probably would've nabbed one. Surprisingly good but a film adaptation of a sung-through musical is essentially a 2 hour music video. Madonna can't act in spoken word, she can only emote through singing, dancing and pantomime, as fits her completely artificial persona.

[quote] And she was fantastic in Desperately Seeking Susan.

She wasn't even "playing" herself, she was just being herself and pretending she was "Susan." Go ahead, describe "Susan" and tell us how she differs from "Madonna." She was very entertaining in that role, but Madonna usually is. She was not giving a good performance, though. She was just doing her own thing in front of a camera, which is second nature to a narcissist like Madonna.

I hated the movie passionately, and Evita has always been my favorite musical.

It's a complete mess, never should have been made. How do you turn a musical that is all narrative into a compelling film? You don't.

Madonna was the least of the negatives.

Having seen Lupone open the show, I wasn’t expecting much from Madonna or the movie.

That she did as well as she did surprised me. I’m no fan, but enjoyed her performance.

So many here love to give Madge shit, when WE ALL KNOW, that we ALL danced to her music for many, MANY years, & generations below us, do the same.

Madge is an enigma, while also being a very kind, benevolent person. If you don’t realize this about her? Then you don’t actually know where her heart is.

Madge is a REALLY decent, good person. Behind the scenes? She’s out there helping the little people. You guys have ZERO idea how ABSOLUTELY SPECIAL, this lady is.

👆🏽This is why I still support her, 100%. This woman does myriad of things, to help others on a daily basis.

Her heart, is ABSOLUTELY, in the right place. She ACTUALLY cares about the future of others, & she goes out of her way to help the less fortunate.

If you don’t acknowledge this? Then you don’t truly know her.

Madge IS good peeps, & it’s a shame those who have enjoyed her music for DECADES, have decided to become assholes, & turn against her.

This lady is one of the VERY best out there, & I’m eternally grateful she got to a place where she uses her wealth, for GOOD.

R33 = Madonna.

[quote]The Golden Globes gave Pia Zadora an award for her acting too.

R13 no, they gave her the New Star of the Year, which was awarded annually to rising stars from 1948 until 1983.

When Zadora won in 1982, she was up against Elizabeth McGovern in RAGTIME, Howard E. Rollins, Jr. in RAGTIME, Kathleen Turner in BODY HEAT, Rachel Ward in SHARKY'S MACHINE, and Craig Wasson in FOUR FRIENDS.

The award was retired the following year after Sandahl Bergman won for CONAN THE BARBARIAN.

The year Zadora won, the GG nominees for Best Actress in a Drama were Sally Field in ABSENCE OF MALICE, Katharine Hepburn in ON GOLDEN POND, Diane Keaton in REDS, Sissy Spacek in RAGGEDY MAN, and Meryl Streep in THE FRENCH LIEUTENANT'S WOMAN. Streep won.

The GG nominees for Best Actress in a Musical or Comedy were Blair Brown in CONTINENTAL DIVIDE, Carol Burnett in THE FOUR SEASONS, Jill Clayburgh in FIRST MONDAY IN OCTOBER, Liza Minnelli in ARTHUR, and Bernadette Peters in PENNIES FROM HEAVEN. Peters won.

R33 is unhinged.

R33 You offer so much praise, tell us about so many good things she done, and say she’s so generous.

Yet you didn’t offer a single specific example of her kindness or generosity.

Which undercuts your unhinged screed of adoration.

I'll charitably decide that R33 is parody.

argentinians are only predominantly white in buenos aires, once you get out of the capital every one is clearly mestizo. the greatest population of whites in latin america are found in brazil, then argentina and cuba.

I figured there would be pushback.

I’m not unhinged.

Madge is a decent lady, BTS.

I’m pleased to know this about her.

IYK, YK. If you don’t, you don’t.

Also? A shot out to Rosie, another good egg.

R35 here.

Forgot to add that Pia Zadora won New Star of the Year for the film BUTTERFLY, which was nominated at the GGs for Best Supporting Actor (Orson Welles) and Best Song ("It's Wrong for Me to Love You").

They lost to John Gielgud in ARTHUR and "Arthur's Theme (Best That You Can Do)".

She’s given four Oscar nominated worthy performances

Desperately seeking Susan

Dangerous game

A league of their own

Evita

In addition she has many theme songs that she cowrote that should have been nominated as well

She should have around a dozen nominations. Yet she has none. Baffling

R41, are you implying PZ did not deserve her win, just because, ‘whatever’?

[quote]which is second nature to a narcissist like Madonna.

An entertainer who's a narcissist? What? Next you'll be saying that water is wet.

Whatever you may think of Madonna, she was instrumental in formulating the acceptance of gay men in mainstream society.

It’s a boring music video.

R45 has lost his mind.

It's true r47.

You wonder what a better actress (Streep, Minnelli, Pfeiffer, Lupone, Mira Sorvino, etc.) could have done with the role. With Madge it was a music video.

R10 I'm argentinean and you know nothing. We have no problem saying we're latin american. But latino is an american term used for a specific group of people in the U.S and its nit only us who don't like that term but all the latin american countries.

Yes. Evita was a white woman with very little African descent.

Whenever people make cracks about Madonna's acting, I always think about "Evita." Most of the time she is just fine, but she has a few moments of brilliance that make me wish she had made better project choices.

Of course, I also really like "Who's That Girl."

R39 another gringo talking out of his ass.

There IS definitely more of a mestizo presence in the north of the country, and in the outskirts of Bs As, which is the poorer area where immigrants came from neighboring countries like Peru and Bolivia, but in all major cities and metropolitan areas of the country the people are predominantly white (mediterranean european white, of course), though definitely not exclusively. There are more mixed people than is sometimes stated but people definitely have more european blood than indigineous.

To R52, you are absolutely Fucking correct!!

I agree with you, in EVITA she is good, but in some scenes, she is fucking brilliant!! That's why she won the GG, Madonna was really good in the movie. She's good at playing sluts, women who use their body to climb to the top or funny tramps

Evita, Desperately Seeking Susan, Who's that Girl, A League of Their Own, Dick Tracy. Madonna is "actually really Good" in all those movies.

[quote]Madge is a REALLY decent, good person. Behind the scenes? She’s out there helping the little people.

There is ZERO evidence of this.

[quote] Was Madonna realistic as an Argentine woman?

She can barely pass for a human.

r50 I've known Argentinians personally who want nothing to do with the rest of Latin America.

[quote]Evita was a white woman with very little African descent.

She had no African descent.

Geez I haven't seen this movie in years. Used to be on cable all the time. Madonna stinks but I still manage to enjoy it.

No, it’s not r48. She definitely pushed things when it came to female sexuality though. She only used gay men from 1990-1992. That was the extent of it beyond having gay friends in her personal life. People like Ellen, America’s sweetheart, helped gay people. Not Madonna.

Bullshit r60. She was an advocate for gay men and AIDS activism from the very beginning. She was an ally when most other celebs didn't want anything to do with us. She's had gay friends since she was a teenager. Her gay ballet teacher in Michigan, Christopher Flynn, was her mentor who introduced her to gay clubs and her best friend and roommate in her early days in NY was Martin Burgoyne who died from AIDS in the mid-80s.

Interview with GLAAD

Accepting the GLAAD Advocate For Change Award

R57 as an argentine myself I can tell you I know many many more than you that do

The mainstream acceptance of gay people was the result of [bold]gay people[/bold] taking risks to their personal safety, personal reputations and professional careers to live openly and unapologetically in homophobic times and places, FULL STOP.

GTFOOH trying to credit a heterosexual queer baiter with a notorious reputation for both narcissism and self-promotion, with your own acceptance as a gay person. I cannot fathom the level of self hatred and homophobia it would require to believe this.

r66 just saying that Madonna did a lot to help us.

[quote]GTFOOH trying to credit a heterosexual queer baiter with a notorious reputation for both narcissism and self-promotion, with your own acceptance as a gay person. I cannot fathom the level of self hatred and homophobia it would require to believe this.

Honey, you don't understand the assignment. Madonna did help with our acceptance in the mainstream. It's not self hatred at all to acknowledge this. Part of the acceptance of gay men in the larger society did come from straight people who supported us.

And BTW all entertainers are narcissists. As are many gay men.

R68, seek professional help. Weirdo.

Hit Ignore on R68 and watch all the posts disappear. It’s the Madonna loon.

Some dizzy fucking queen who fried her brain on bathhouse poppers thinks a pop star from 40 years ago paved the way for gay rights and acceptance. You can't make this shit up. If it was a scene in a movie I'd call it unrealistic.

Good god some profoundly stupid people post here.

People rightly go off on Janbot but Madonna LoonTM is at least equally insane. Janbot never claimed Janet Jackson was the new MLK.

I cleared my block list this morning. I do this every time it reaches more 15 posters. It had actually crept up to 20+.

Having just blocked R68 I recognize it as one of the posters I had blocked before. Seeing the full post history I know why, too.

It's funny how these trolls out themselves with every post. 2 hours of freedom and they're locked up again almost immediately.

You guys are pretty ignorant to not know that Madonna did a lot for gay visibility and acceptance. Whatever, you can't fix stupid.

[quote]Some dizzy fucking queen who fried her brain on bathhouse poppers thinks a pop star from 40 years ago paved the way for gay rights and acceptance.

I said no such thing you fucking moron. Madonna did not "pave the way" or singlehandedly made gay men acceptable. All I said was that she did a lot for gay men in a time when barely any other public person did. That's it. And that's undeniable.

I've always been amazed at the lack of reading comprehension on DL. Lots of black and white thinkers here.

[quote] Some dizzy fucking queen who fried her brain on bathhouse poppers thinks a pop star from 40 years ago paved the way for gay rights and acceptance.

They also believe that some tranny (who wasn’t even a tranny), who admitted that they weren’t even there, threw the first brick at Stonewall.

Madonna loon is coming for Condi loon’s crown.

Madonna threw the first brick at Stonewall!

[quote]They also believe that some tranny (who wasn’t even a tranny), who admitted that they weren’t even there, threw the first brick at Stonewall.

That's bullshit. Always has been.

Madonna, along with Liz Taylor, was among the first big celebrities to defend those with AIDS and by extension gays. I’ll always respect her for that.

Her brother of course was gay, and her fan base had strong gay presence

Standing up for AIDS victims in the 80s, while commendable, does not make her remotely or even partially "instrumental in formulating the acceptance of gay men in mainstream society." Pretty sure those AIDS victims and their gay loved ones deserve that credit above anyone else, and their hetero friends and families too, and the many times more numerous gay people who simply lived openly at great risk.

Even in the 80s "Gay" = AIDS and saying so was offensive. Claiming her AIDS activism 40 (!) years ago is why gay men today should be grateful to her is offensive, too. She's done nothing for anyone else for the past 30-something years and she only "stood up" for gay men when we were victims.

saying "Gay = AIDS" was offensive, sorry my words got jumbled at R81.

r81 you are totally ignorant. Sorry, nothing can be done for you. Madonna has always been tight with the gay community and from the very beginning of her career she was an advocate for us. And standing up for AIDS activism was a bold move in the 80s.

Madonna has every symptom along with the stereotypical background of someone with NPD. How anyone could possibly think she cares about anyone other than herself and securing narcissistic supply is beyond delusional.

Madonna would make unannounced visits to hospitals in the mid 80's to visit AIDS patients. She would stay for the day and talk with many people there. At a time when the government was doing absolutely nothing not even acknowledging it, and many stars in Hollywood were avoiding people with AIDS, every little bit helped.

[Quote] saying "Gay = AIDS" was offensive

They didn’t care what you thought was offensive. Offending gays was the point.

Gay = “Got AIDS Yet?”

Madonna loves Argentinian cock.

Doesn’t everyone?

R88, Argentinian men are the nexus of where Italian meets Latino, and so yes, you're correct. They got nice dicks and know how to use them.

I loved what she did in that movie. She was Evita!

Now upthread’s post has me pondering Pia Zadora as the film version of Evita.