Who has better friendships: women or men?

Get a female friend. Problem solved.

In other words, water is wet.

I can't remember (unfortunately) who it was, but I remember reading the reflections of a lesbian who transitioned (or partially transitioned) and one of her big takeaways was how lonely men's lives were in comparison with those of women

I might agree that female friendships have a headstart, as if they understand a set of rules from an early point and refine them (not necessarily narrow them) over time. Women may start out with a better understanding of friendship and personal dynamics.

Men on the other hand lack that headstart. The easy sense of rules to follow and the range of personalities and motivations and behaviors that they may find along the way, it seems there's often some basis for that that is lacking among men. Men have a harder time starting off on a good foot; they have less basis for forming adult friendships with members if their own sex.

Of course that's all grounded in various stereotypes, but somewhere there's some essential element of truth beyond the generalizations.

When I see a group of women together who don't know each other especially well or on an equal basis, I'm impressed by their skill in forging sone bond. With men, that seems much less an instant approach but rather one that develops over time as they come to account for both strengths and weaknesses. Friendship starts from something much more tentative and with more doubt.

In the end, male friendships can be great, but there's much more trial and error before it advances to that point.

R3, the book was called "Self-Made Man," by Norah Vincent. It sure did shine a lot of light on how the other half lives.

As a woman, she was always told how butch she was, but masquerading as a man, men always thought she was a bit fey.

The masquerade she did living as a man for over a year in order to write the book really fucked with her head, and she ended up committing suicide.

I have very few books -- I moved a lot, and got tired of carrying them around -- but I still have hers. You should give it a read.

I don't think there are any scientists, psychologists or sociologists who would say that men have better friendships / relationships.

I don't know if it will ever change.

And no - it doesn't count if you're in your teens and 20s.

R5 thank you!

Just bought it

I really wish I had a couple of male friends. I am surrounded by women at work and am friendly (not friends) with a couple. I have a partner, and we have a good relationship. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of common interests.

Women are all gossipy backstabbers who eventually turn on each other. Men get along fine without drama.

R9 - I would say men associate with each other better, but it's not deep friendships. And I've seen a lot of men (straight men) say terrible things about their 'friends' and co-workers.

What's amazing is how women fight - yes they talk about each other and may backstab, but then they get confronted eventually and they apologize and they're back to being friends. And that fucking sucks because they always want their friends or partners to take their side, get upset with them - and then just say it's over and dismiss it.

The Real Housewives shows are really about the complexity of women's relationships. And women DO circle around and support each other when something bad happens to one of them - even if they didn't like them last week.

When men get to the point of talking badly about their friends or are so pissed off, it's usually the end. Not for women. It's round 1 - with many multiple rounds to follow of mending fences, apologizing, being besties, then hating them - it's wild to watch.

Eldergay here. For a long time my closest friendships were with women, but as I’ve aged I’ve found myself irritated with their incessant talking and processing and analyzing.

Women for me. I’ve tried but have never warmed up or found it easy to make/sustain friendships with other guys. Sexually attracted, yes; but on a mental, emotional and friendship level?—I’ve just felt more connected and comfortable with females that way.

R11, as I've gotten older I've dropped most of my female friends. I just decided I didn't want to deal with their nastiness, occasionally directed at me. I don't know if they changed or I did or both.

When it comes to work, I prefer, by far, working with men. The shit women do is quite unbelievable. The gossip/reputational destruction is only the least of it. I work in a female-dominated field. I have some flexibility with my schedule and the staff I'll work with. I am much happier when I've had a few shifts working with men. The women are exhausting, there is an underlying tension, camaraderie and laughter just doesn't happen, and these women are supposedly friends outside of work.

[quote]Women are all gossipy backstabbers who eventually turn on each other. Men get along fine without drama.

R9, you do know you're on DL, right? I mean, what part of "pointless bitchery" don't you understand?

And R10, I swear to god, everything you guys think you know about women you learned from watching TV. I got news for you: TV isn't real life. And if you ever spent a lot of time around women IRL, you would know that each woman is an individual and can't be categorized the way you're trying to do here. And if you don't think men "do drama," you must not know many other gay men, and you sure as fuck don't spend a lot of time on DL.

Oh -- and BTW, I've spent 20+ years riding with male bikers, and I have never heard so much gossip in my entire life. It's just that when straight men do it, they're having "important conversations."

And I usually eventually found out what they were saying about me -- and it was utter bullshit, but whatever.

Men don't gossip?? HA!!!

There's no drama like lesbian drama.

R15 - that's the truth - but I have to think that you may be a one-off and they all need to have their opinions of the 'outsider' - I.e. the non-male.

Men tear other men down in different ways than gossip.

A better conversation would be gay friendships vs heterosexual friendships.

The "frenemy" aspect of women's friendships is fairly unappealing

Men. Women are a nightmare.

Women much prefer male friendships than female.

As a straight woman I've had 2 people who I've been friends with since High School, Im 53. One is a woman and the other is a gay male. They are the only 2 people, besides a few family members that I trust completely. With the woman friend I never felt any competition, nor is she catty. The only female friend I keep I have kept in touch with for so long. All the other girls I was friends with in HS I've let go because of all the backstabbing crap. The gay friend is the closest of the 2 and I trust with my life.

Most straight men bond by taking action. My father, when newly married and quite poor, had two different builders go bankrupt on him and ended up having to finish building his house himself. It was a good hour away from where they were all living, but two of his friends spent most of their weekends, for a year, helping him with the build, even though they were office workers, not tradesmen, and one had a young wife at home whom he adored. No matter what happened afterwards, nothing could break the bond the three men formed, which lasted to their deaths around 60 years later. My father would have done anything either of them asked, and he did get chances to repay them later, by taking action just as important to them. But they probably never had what a normal person would call a meaningful conversation in the whole 60 years. My mother had women friends with whom she would regularly talk for hours, but I don't think any of her friendships were as deep as those two of my dad's.

Building a bond that way takes time and crisis, so in a geographically mobile population such friendships don't have time to form. Straight men can't keep in touch when geographically separated because saying stuff isn't what they do.

R23 They may have had a friendship but if your conversation never results in any deeper thought then I would say his neighbors helped him and they were pals. But a friendship, to me at least, has real meat to it. If they never went further than a thank you, have a beer and it's about to rain then that is not bonding. Bonding leads to better conversation. I have met many a straight man who confessed to me instead of their straight pals with the excuse that they wouldn't get it. I think a great many straight men would love to share with their buddies but that might look weak or gay. Straight men - all of them - have a great problem with looking weak because they were raised by men and women to keep your feelings to yourself- it's not manly to share. So the culture that they promote is what builds a Jersey wall to being more open and secure.

I think there are people in both sexes who feel like

1) life is a popularity contest and that they need to have a large amount of friends to prove that they are worthy (but the friendships are rather weak)

2) feel more secure in larger numbers because they are insecure themselves and less spotlight is on them

3) some people genuinely hate being alone or with just one other person - extreme extroverts. I've met them. Being by themselves makes them depressed. A lot of people energizes them - where people who are more introverted, get depleted in those environments for too long.

But I also think men are socialized more to stand on their own and be loners. I do think women are better at friendships for a lot of reasons - but motivations vary.

Another ElderGay here - same story for me. Most all of my friends were women up until my 40s. My long-term best relationships now in my 50s are all with men. Men whom I've known for many decades and are now reaching out to each other to share life dramas, not making drama for each other at all.

The women have drifted away into their own relationships or their own singlehood, and when I do catch up with them, there is always some reason I'm being told I'm at fault for not properly maintaining the friendship they were enjoying from me, and I have to think back on it, and realize they are only half right. Their demands for extra attention, time on the phone, paying for things, and taking a side (whether friendship or politics) was important to them. In short, female drama. I just lost energy to maintain it, and found that it wasn't worth it. I'm supposed to remember their birthdays and try to plan something with or for them, but none of these ladies remember my birthday at all. I don't care if people remember my birthday, I just care that I'm not getting any of the same energy or attention back that I give to women.

The men in my life were usually fun, yet aloof and 'cool' throughout my 20s and 30s, but as our parents die, we get illnesses, and other friends die, or we just want to talk to someone about life's b.s. - we have been turning to each other. One of my old friends died last week, and it's been all the men reaching out to me, and to each other to talk about him, pay tribute, cry, tell funny stories about him, talk about the obituary. The women are nowhere to be found here, and barely have a connection to him anymore. His wife, mother and daughter, however, are amazing women, and have included us in the grieving process, so there's the exception.

Sorry, but I think women's maturity peaks in their 30s, and they don't grow much more after that. Men take a long time to mature, but when they do, it keeps going. That's my very general take - and yet there are of course exceptions.

I don’t believe in that “sisterhood” that is supposed to exist between woman. My mother couldn’t be trusted so that influenced my wariness of women in general. I haven’t been proved wrong in my experience.