Ethical Veganism

I dont see it as extreme so much as I really dont like most Vegan food and I love things like steak, bacon and chicken. And no, Portobello mushrooms do not takes like a steak.

The tick whose bite makes people allergic to red meat is spreading rapidly.

Stupid.

Former vegan here. I developed severe vitamin/mineral deficiencies. I don’t think it’s sustainable long-term. I still enjoy vegan/vegetarian food.

I eat meat in moderation and feel much healthier. I don’t think meat is the enemy, the standard American diet is.

OP- I am more interested in the article titled-

Why Being WELL HUNG In The Gay World Matters

Well, biologically speaking Humans are omnivores not vegans which some animals are. Just look at the dental record, back teeth are meant for grinding like vegetation, front teeth are meant for tearing with sharp teeth and K9s. Even the forward placement of our eyes which give up three dimensional vision with depth perception is a common trait of animals that hunt moving targets for food and survival.

I think it's great if you can give up meat on ethical grounds, I just cant do it when it comes to the practically of living that way. And you have to jump through a lot of hoops to supplement the lost nutrition from doing that.

The vegans I have known had thinly veiled eating disorders.

Most vegans I have met over the years have a lot of odd health problems, like hair falling out at the age of 30. But they would NEVER admit it in any way could be related as they will tell you they use correct supplements for missing vitamins etc. The thing is we are still learning about the human body and there are probably many things we still don't know about the human diet. I mean, remember when fat was bad and carbs were good for you?

[quote]I dont see it as extreme so much as I really dont like most Vegan food and I love things like steak, bacon and chicken. And no, Portobello mushrooms do not takes like a steak.

I agree; I rarely eat steak (because I can't afford it), but there is nothing better than a big juicy steak or a well-prepared Thanksgiving turkey. I eat meat in moderation, but with the diminishing pleasures that life offers, I hate the idea of cutting out bacon for some weird, chemically-bacon substitute. It just sounds depressing.

Very few posters talked about the ethical aspects outside of health concerns. Perhaps we should not eat animals with higher intelligence that are anatomically similar to us like pigs and cows, but chickens, small fish, crabs, and shrimp don’t really possess substantial self awareness or consciousness therefore could never have any sense of morality, making them acceptable to eat.

I have allergies to nuts and many beans. I could never get enough protein or variety from a vegan diet.

For those who don’t believe that food allergies exist, here is what I would say:

Veganism does not work and is not healthy without significant supplementation. It is not natural—and I say this as someone who has been a vegetarian for most of my life. Human evolution depended on our consuming animal products and we have evolved to depend on them. For vegans, there is no way to naturally get B12 without vitamin supplements or nutritional yeast (and significant amounts of it). At least as a vegetarian you can get B12 and other nutrients/protein via eggs, milk, cheese, etc.

In a perfect world, I’d love to not have to depend on animals for anything, but it’s simply not the natural order. Most vegans have severe nutritional deficiencies that they’re not even aware of.

And what is unethical veganism, OP? What hell is "universal morality"? Do you pull terms out of your ass? I think you do.

What R6 said, so cogently.

We are omnivores. The ethical demand should be for the humane treatment of animals -- which does NOT mean that we don't eat them.

R13 I’m talking about the act of eating meat. Universal morality has to do with accepted morality across all cultures. Murder, rape, torture, and theft are generally considered immoral across all cultures.

Ah, so ethical veganism means this? "Ethical veganism is a philosophy and lifestyle that opposes the exploitation and use of animals for any purpose, extending beyond dietary choices to encompass all aspects of life."

Good luck with that. Also it doesn't exist ON THIS PLANET because animals are used for "purposes" in every culture.

As for animal eating, there is no known large-scale human culture—past or present—where absolutely no animals, including fish, were consumed as a norm across the entire society.

R16 I agree, that’s why I posed the question— should it be one. Slavery, though still exists in sexual trafficking, was very much common across all cultures until very recently in the total scope of history.

No because humans need to consume animals for our health and in many parts of the world humans need animals to survive, to be work animals. I see you point in the ultimate ideal but not at all, ZILCH, in reality. Why draw the line at animals and fish? Why should humans eat plants? Blah blah blah blah blah. You're kind of a sparkle pony. "I'm just asking questions."

[quote]but chickens, small fish, crabs, and shrimp don’t really possess substantial self awareness or consciousness therefore could never have any sense of morality, making them acceptable to eat.

Hu? There are many aquatic animals in the sea that have awareness and consciousness. Octopus for example are as smart as a 10 year old child almost. There are other fish in the sea way up there on that awareness chart as well. Long horn cow-fish for examples are more interested in people and will fallow you around in the tank like a little puppy and many owners claim that. Seahorse actually pair bond with a single mate, the male will even move to protect the female, etc.

I know someone who is raising their children as vegans and I'm tempted to call CPS.

just call them. It's child abuse.

I've been a vegetarian for fifty years, but my perspective on this is simple: do you have a choice? If you live in poverty or where food and water are not in steady supply, then you have to eat whatever comes your way, just to survive. If you're a typical Datalounger (sorry, Darfur Orphan) then you have all the food choices in the world -so you have the ethical responsibility to eat sustainably in consideration of the planet.

I’m sorry what?

Shove your tofurky right up your fat ass OP. I bet you’re one of those vegans who is somehow obese even though they can’t eat shit.

R24 I’m actually not vegan…not yet anyways. I’ve done different bouts of vegetarianism. This is something I’ve always thought about since having pet dogs as a kid. Why do we eat some animals but not others.

Lately I’ve been meditating and drinking Kava tea. It has me thinking about the universe, reality, and morality deeply. Pigs and cows are mammals not too far removed from us. We shouldn’t be eating them. They likely have their own animal language that we have yet to decipher. They mourn the death of their offsprings and will mourn the death of human caretakers. I feel like more evolved humans in the future will easily grasp this.

And yes I am the OP.

oh you. meditating = edging to white twink porn and Kava tea = Tina.

R26 why must you constantly harass and disparage. Get a life and stop self projecting on me.