38 years ago, Whitney Houston made music history

I find her record of seven consecutive number one hits even more impressive. Nobody has topped that one and maybe they never will.

R1 - I believe Rihanna had 7 #1's in a row - but things are calculated a bit differently now. I don't know if it's an apples-to-apples comparison.

Whitney's album had a lot of fun hits - 'playing it safe' - as opposed to what?

It's pop music for crying out loud - what else was she supposed to do?

R2 We had this conversation a few weeks ago. She played it safe rather than taking chances. She delivered nearly a carbon copy of her first album with this album - that's playing it safe. She was criticized by the Black community for appealing to white pop music . Al Sharpton nicknamed her 'Whitey Houston'. So for her third album she went for the R&B crowd.

R2, AI says you are correct but then Whitney still holds the record per Guiness, so who knows? I also do think Whitney began to take more risks starting with the acapella in I Will always Love You. I don't think a major pop song ever began with an acapella before. Her cover of I'm Every Woman was also risky, covers always are, and it managed to rival (some say surpass but IDK about that) the original. Releasing a gospel album as a major A + list artist was also bold. And My Love is Your Love is a less bright, cheery sound than what was on her earlier records.

R3, her second album sounds very watered down compared to her debut. I mean, just look at the album covers. The debut always sounded better to me than Whitney, the latter just sounds like run-of-the-mill late 80s synthesized dance music. I don't ever want to hear I Wanna Dance With Somebody ever again.

R4 - totally agree with you - but remember those were TWO beloved covers. And starting a capella is unheard of. And I think she blew away Dolly's version of IWALY and equaled Chaka's IEW.

Like A Prayer starts out a cappella.

Whitney’s record company played it smart releasing her singles far a part. They also did it when radio play was more important for chart position so she was played on more stations than a White artist. Few times Black artists had an advantage. It’s why so many Black artists charted high in the 80s/early 90s when their play on White Top 40 was average and their play on Black radio was stellar. Whitney was heavily played on Black radio despite the criticism from the community. Some of those 7 songs likely would’ve missed #1 without Black radio support helping her chart position.

Her rendition of the Star Spangled Banner will never be topped.

R4, yes, you are right, I forgot all about IWALY being a cover. And it was a cover of a country song, so it was probably even more difficult to cover and convert into a pop song.

R6, Like a Prayer does not start out a cappella. Remember, Prince plays the guitar at the beginning.

R6 - no it doesn't. Listen to it again - there's an organ and background singers singing 'ooooooo' which counts as non-singing accompaniment in my book.

R9 It’s a capella. It has the same effect. Look I love Whitney, but she wasn’t the only one to do it and it wasn’t that odd or special for either. If anything IWALY starting out that way enhanced the song. It stood out. It wasn’t daring at all.

R10, it is by definitely not an acapella. Per AI...

[quote] No, "Like a Prayer" by Madonna does not begin with an acapella section. The song starts with a heavy rock guitar riff, which is then abruptly cut off, and the choir and organ enter. While the song does feature a prominent choir later on, and there are acapella versions available, the original album version does not open with just vocals

Those 7 #1s tied Madonna eventually.

To be fair, Madonna easily could have had the same. She had 6 or 7 songs in heavy radio rotation for 6 months limiting their chart potential. Material Girl stalled at #2 due to LAV (plus Lucky Star) still in heavy rotation. Into The Groove was #1 in both radio play and sales, but was not eligible to chart. Angel was high in radio play and #1 in sales but radio was still playing the hell out of ITG and Crazy For You, which did hit #1. Dress You Up was #1 in sales, but radio was still playing the other songs heavily.

The two #1 hits ballads off that album (Didn’t We Almost Have It All and Where Do Broken Hearts Go) were total schlock and are some of her least memorable over time. But So Emotional was superb and I thought she sounded credibly R&B on that track — not just trying to appeal to white tastes.

The next album was more uneven (My Name Is Not Susan was just awkward) but she took more chances with it.

I know this thread is about Whitney but R12 mentioned Madonna's sales so I will just add Madonna has 16 songs that hit number one on the hot singles sales chart, that is more than any other artist, I think. Mariah has 12, she is number 2.

R13, I always liked So Emotional way more than IWDWS.

Nobody cares about the Hot Singles chart, R14.

R16, I find it way more valuable than the Hot 100. The Hot 100 was more tilted towards airplay, especially in the 90s. Which makes no sense to me. Who even cares about airplay aside from record companies?!

R13 Those ballads were dreadful. So Emotional was ok but her voice sold it. I’ll take How Will I Know ANYDAY over the overrated IWDWS.

R16 It’s indicative of which songs the public bought and is why Billboard changed to a Hot 100 based on sales more than airplay. It was more of what truly was #1 than radio play. You saw any immediate shift in who and what hit #1. Then people started selling their singles cheap and Billboard had to change it up again.

I liked Whitney and Madonna.

I think Whitney should’ve stuck with the winning formula and slowly folded in different sounds. She was bullied into changing up her sound too quickly.

I think it's really unfortunate Clive Davis didn't like "his" artists writing their own material. I know WB but Sire--the record label Madonna signed with and was owned by WB--gave their artists a lot more creative freedom than that. I think I've read Whitney felt insecure about not being able to write lyrics like Madonna .

`that should say, " I know WB has a poor reputation for how they treated their artists, but..."

R19 - I think after 5 years of being portrayed as this beautiful America's sweetheart (although she looked like a model) - I think she was tired of being seen like that.

Particularly because she had a mouth on her, had her own mind and she was in a relationship with a woman. She had to hide a LOT for many many years to keep up that impossible image. And it was an impossible image - not crafted by her - for white audiences. Being criticized by your own community hurts.

But man - at her peak - her beauty, her voice, her graciousness, her body and how she looked in clothes, her smile - it was an overall package that I don't think has been equaled. Now her dancing...that was the one fault that people had to find and jump on to make her look human.

WB was a terrible record company. It drove Prince insane and Madonna had to wrest control of her career from them. She did it after LAV and from the stories it got ugly but she prevailed.

Whitney would not have done well with them. As Prince and Madonna found out, they did nothing to promote their artists, wouldn’t push radio to push a high charting song to #1, they did nothing to promote their artists in magazines with fluff pieces, or push back on negative press. We all know record companies planted negative articles about other labels’ artists. Prince was hit with being “feminine” and “crazy”. WB did not push back. It is very likely Whitney would’ve been hit with the drug/lesbian rumors hard without the incredible media savvy and pull of Arista. Not everyone can write songs. Whitney just couldn’t. But one negative about Arista was they were too controlling.

R22 Many would say her drug problems and her mouth and her being bisexual would’ve taken the shine off that reputation. That’s the one thing Arista did well- built an image and made sure the media played along with it. She was shielded from a lot of bad press which truly could’ve derailed her career. If she lost her white bread White audience her career would’ve suffered mightily. It will never be equaled because it wasn’t truly her. It was false.

And then she drowned in a bathtub.

Sire was a small company inside of WB. They gave Madonna a chance, but they couldn’t do much else for her. Sire did allow her to solo write 5 of the 9 songs on her first album to critical acclaim. Once she sold a few million, WB stepped in and only allowed her to solo write one song on LAV because they knew she was about to explode and needed more polish. After Niles Rodgers mentored her further in songwriting, she told WB she wouldn’t do any videos for True Blue if she didn’t write the songs. There’s a famous story about Live To Tell and her deal with WB about it but I’ve already typed too much on this.

I think Whitney wrongly felt she owed Clive more than she did. Or maybe he slyly threatened her about how much Arista protected her reputation. Regardless, Whitney should’ve done what she wanted and let the chips fall where they may. She earned the right.

R26, yes, Whitney always seemed to feel she owed her life to him. I'm sure she owed a great deal of her success to him but she was the talent.

I admired Whitney and Clive that they did not engage in chart manipulation like Mariah Carey and Tommy. Whitney and Arista had the clout to do it and extend her streak of #1s but she had too much integrity.

[quote] The two #1 hits ballads off that album (Didn’t We Almost Have It All and Where Do Broken Hearts Go) were total schlock and are some of her least memorable over time. But So Emotional was superb

Two of my favorite songs from any Whitney album are Didn’t We Almost Have It All and Where Do Broken Hearts Go. So Emotional doesn’t hold up for me.

[quote]I think it's really unfortunate Clive Davis didn't like "his" artists writing their own material.

He let Carly Simon and Barry Manilow write their own material.

A little trivia: For some reason, with his female artists, Davis always wanted them to release at least one album titled with just their first name. Dionne Warwick released "Dionne", Houston released "Whitney", Aretha Franklin released "Aretha".

For Carly Simon's first album, he wanted it to be titled just "Carly" - but she had previously released the single 'Coming Around Again' which was Top 20 hit for her on Billboard, and at the last minute was included on her first Arista album (it was only released as a single and on the 'Heartburn' movie soundtrack 6 months earlier). Davis was no fool, and wanted to take advantage of the song's inclusion. So at the last minute, he tweaked the cover - in huge letters in the left top corner is the name 'Carly' above her photo which was to be the original title and cover art. Way down in smaller letters in the left corner in much smaller font, he added the title 'Coming Around Again' - taking advantage of the single release.

"He let Carly Simon and Barry Manilow write their own material." - but they were already known songwriters before. That's what they do.

What I'm surprised at is that Whitney didn't get the 'change a word, get a third' on writing credits for the first few albums. Mariah did. And no, I don't think Mariah is a good song writer.

It feels like Clive fashioned Whitney's persona into something from the mid-60s solo singers - a la Dionne Warwick (obvious choice), but also like Petula Clark or others that stood up there with great gowns and poised and perfect. I think he leaned into the cousin connection with Dionne Warwick - another one who we found out to be almost the exact opposite of her stage persona.

R31, what made it worse is that Whitney constantly felt like she owed Clive her life. I mean, sure, without Clive, she probably won't have been AS successful, but she would have still been big (imo). I think Whitney's atittude towards elders, including Clive, is a reflection of her religious upbringing. People from immigrant backgrounds have a similar attitude. It's one that can be summed up as "no matter how badly this elder person treats me, they are still my elder and I will show them gratitude!".

R32 - yes, she did have a reverence for him. Who knows - he may have helped her out or protected her in a lot of other ways that we don't know about.

And she died the night of Clive Davis's pre-Grammy party that she was supposed to attend.

He did sign her at 19 and it took them 2 years to get her first album out, which is kind of a long time back then.

Whitney knew how to use her body from modeling - but she was also extremely poised and press-trained for being so young. I think they spent considerable time with her on that - because at 21 she had the poise and maturity in interviews of someone 10 years older. Or that's what I remember.

I sure as hell wasn't that pulled together at 21 - LOL - or 30!

R33, if you see how she looked and spoke before vs after her debut came out, it's like two different people. She wasn't from the hood like some people claim but she did seem "hard" in a way, like she would cut you if you offended her. Clive softened her edges and she was considered pop music's sweetheart. But that image started to crack slowly around the time she married Bobby and you notice that she gets more sassy and prickly during some interviews.

R31 Mariah is definitely NOT a good songwriter. Tommy knew she would be seen as Whitney-lite so he needed to add “songwriter” as well. She is the epitome of “change a word, get a third”. And the songs aren’t lyrically exceptional anyway. Everything about her career is a fraud including her numerous chart manipulations. Google “Mariah payola”.

I do think her reverence for her elders did come from her religious background and it was her Achilles heel in some ways.

R35 - yeah - I've always had an unnatural level of dislike for Mariah from the very beginning. The vocal gymnastics, only allowing one side of her face to be filmed, the hoochie outfits, and worst of all - I remember people commenting about how beautiful she was in the early to mid-90s. ???? Beautiful?

I had some gay friends who were Mariah fanatics and I just kept my mouth shut. She HAD a nice voice but I couldn't wrap my head around her popularity. Now we know some of it was Tommy Motolla's doing and payola - but that's not all of it. You can't push someone that people don't like - I still don't understand it.

Her voice always sounded so concentrated on performance but without depth or emotion. I'm in the minority view of this though it seems.

R36 So many are suckers for vocal gymnastics, and she had some fun songs early on. Tommy knew how to play the game to get so many of her songs to #1 with manipulation or payola. After Music Box, her career was sliding downward fast. The public was lukewarm to her new sound and image. This is around Honey which was not doing well, then 49 cent single then suddenly zooms to #1. Billboard has had to change its rule because of her many times. Now, she does it with the Xmas song and they let her. They were going to change the rules about them charting, but she flipped out, must’ve thrown $ at them so they backed off. Whitney didn’t need chart manipulations.

WOW - I never heard of Mariah's chart manipulations in all this time I've been following her music (on and off).

R38 Google it. It’s ugly.

I wanna dance with somebody is one of her beat songs and one of the best songs of the 1980s.

^^^^ * one of her beSt songs.

Say what you will about the choice of material but the voice in her prime was pretty spectacular. And I am not a fan.

^ Mariah

The material matters. Mariah’s was ehhh. Her voice? I could take it or leave it. I don’t deny it was technically very good. She’s generally awful live.