I think we are about to witness the dissolution of the LGBTQIA+ community

I’m a transracial Chinese lesbian and I’m not accepted by the mainstream LGBTQ+ 🏳️‍🌈 community! 😕

Another one of these navel-gazing threads....

What will be the new acronym just for us? Something catchy.

OP, why don’t you take your disrespectful hate speech and just join the Southern Baptists then? Sounds like you’d be right at home there.

You can adopt a new acronym, A-S-S-H-O-L-E. It stands for ASSHOLE. Then you can just be your bigoted, hateful self.

Because, let’s be honest, it would never stop with just transgender people. You’d then move on to telling the rest of us gay people how to be, having us arrested for wearing white shoes after Labor Day, etc.

So you can just take your Hate Party of 1 and go. We’re sick of your bean dip and nobody wants to fuck you anyway.

It's all over but the cryin.

r3 How about 'gay?'

Every gay man and lesbian for himself/herself, and trans contra all.

With the dawn of each new day, OP rouses from slumber, slowly awakens, eventually hoists the body up out of bed, and there it is again, the primary thought etched deep into the brain, [bold]“must log onto Datalounge and bash trans some more”.[/bold]

It all started because Boomer parents didn't want their boys to be sissies. If you were nelly, you must be a female trapped in a male body.

They also forbid their boonchkins from being GAY. So the Millennials became 'fluid', bi, questioning, non-binary... and finally the repulsive 'Queer'.

[quote]Boomer parents didn't want their boys to be sissies

This didn't start with the Boomers, hon, or peak Trans would have been [italic]many years[/italic] ago instead of, say, 10 years ago.

I kind of feel it because no major male actor has come out in like 2 years. There’s more humans alive than ever before, so how can there be fewer gay actors? Being gay was starting to be celebrated in the 2010s; then when budgets tightened, I guess people thought twice. Sucks.

Unfortunately, an orientation-only civil rights bill = throwing trans under bus as Democratic policy. Don't see any way to change that ...

I don’t think most people are angry at trans people as individuals, though some are. Most people are rejecting the radical trans ideology that gender is a variable continuum and that we need to change the way society thinks and speaks about gender to accommodate a tiny minority. We should not call tampons a “women’s product” and should not refer to “birthing parents” as “mothers.” Tragic and stupid overreach.

The censorship we see here is unfortunate.

It says the LG establishment has decreed solidarity with T and solidarity means unquestioning support and no dissent shall be tolerated .Anyone who dissents is a “hater” who shall be suppressed

In fact the politics of this issue are complex and interesting and vital. We should be free to talk about it.

The LGB are delusional if they think the right only hates the T, and only wants to take away rights from the T. The LGB will always be in their crosshairs regardless of the T.

[quote] t all started because Boomer parents didn't want their boys to be sissies. If you were nelly, you must be a female trapped in a male body.

That’s a tremendous overstatement. It may be true in a few cases, but there are still plenty of sissy boys.

I think the fact is that some people who would have been categorized as gay in the past are actually trans. That adds complexity and people don’t like complexity .

I don’t believe children should be allowed to have elective double mastectomies.

I don’t believe women are hateful if they don’t want to share changing rooms (or rape crisis centres) with people with dicks.

I don’t believe anyone born a man should ever be allowed to take a woman’s place on a sports field or steal their prizes or scholarships.

I don’t believe gay people are bigots if they do not want to pretend to be interested in dating trans people, just to spare the feelings of trans people.

If these beliefs mean I cannot belong to the LGBTQIA2S+++++(+spicy straights) community, then I will just have to find some way to, somehow, cope with that.

The hysteria here over trans people rivals anything on the right. Then again most of the hysteria here is coming from right wing trolls like OP so it's probably all the same shit. Don't fall for it. It's the usual divide and conquer bullshit.

Taking a case about the rights of parents to choose medical intervention for trans children to THIS Supreme Court in THIS political environment was an obvious strategic blunder and the resulting decision further undermines the right to “privacy” (which I think is more accurately called the right to “personal autonomy”) upon which the entire gay rights legal structure stands.

We should be free to criticize the trans ideologues who placed their very slim hopes of a victory above our long-term interests.

[quote]The LGB are delusional if they think the right only hates the T, and only wants to take away rights from the T. The LGB will always be in their crosshairs regardless of the T.

Jesus I’m so sick of this argument. A lot of people who hate gays also hate serial killers. That doesn’t mean we have anything in common with serial killers nor does it mean we should advocate on their behalf. Besides, trans are so small in numbers compared to gays, how is kicking then to the curb going to hurt us? It’ll hurt them, but when you see what they’re advocating for, it’s quite horrifying.

No. You do not have to be a “right wing troll” to criticize the trans movement. This is an attempt by progressives who believe in blind loyalty to the “oppressed” to declare the entire topic out of bounds. Well, it isn’t out of bounds no matter how much you stamp your feet.

Though it is likely out of bounds here as the imminent disappearance of this thread will soon demonstrate.

It is Muriel’s party, after all.

They will pick us all off letter by letter until you are the only one left.

The tranny manifesto.

"Being male & female isn't real". If that were true, none of us would be here. This way of thinking also allows straight men access to women's safe spaces. "Who cares if you bitches are afraid, I want to squat to pee"!

"Being lesbian & gay isn't real, people are fluid" I'm a gay man, I'm real, pretending you're the opposite sex, that's not real.

"Being an adult or a child isn't real" In other words, adults should be allowed to play out pedophilic fantasies

R20 - where does my comment in any way suggest kicking trans to the curb?? It’s quite the opposite. I’m saying there are LGBs who think getting rid of the T will make a difference. It won’t.

The public will always see LGBT together. Stop whining about it and pretending the right wingers will suddenly love us if we’re just LGB.

The very reason we’re all lumped together is they detest us and will work against our rights no matter what name we choose

NEVER give the right wing what it demands. NEVER bow, even an inch.

They will never stop hating us

[Quote] A lot of people who hate gays also hate serial killers. That doesn’t mean we have anything in common with serial killers nor does it mean we should advocate on their behalf

The right in fact thinks wr are at the same level as serial killers, or at the level of pedophiles

R24 if you think that wackos like Chase Strangio advocating for child mutilation is not going to come back to bite us in the ass, you’re insane. Disassociating from that cannot possibly hurt us.

Hillary was right. Never give into the political right.

You think they’ll suddenly accept us if we, say, accept civil unions instead of marriage, give up gay parades, and on and on?

[Quote] if you think that wackos like Chase Strangio advocating for child mutilation is not going to come back to bite us in the ass, you’re insane. Disassociating from that cannot possibly hurt us.

Every crazy person doesn’t represent us

The very fact that every one is focused on Trans kid surgeries and hormone therapies, which are exceedingly rare as the last resort, shows me that the whole argument is drummed up to scare everyone.

Just like “Gays will be allowed to marry their pets if we allow gay marriage.”

Dissociate all you want, R28, but you’ll ALWAYS be lumped in with them, like we are with pedos, etc. Understanding that doesn’t mean you support Strangio. It means you understand politics.

The right doesn’t give a skit about kids. It’s just using them to push it’s right wing agenda

[Quote] Dissociate all you want, [R28], but you’ll ALWAYS be lumped in with them, like we are with pedos, etc. Understanding that doesn’t mean you support Strangio. It means you understand politics.

If they’re going to associate us with this no matter what, why bother trying to kowtow to them?

Who’s kowtowing?

It’s not “child mutilation” to give hormone therapy to delay the onset of puberty for teenagers who feel their biological sex is inconsistent with their identity. Unless you have experienced this yourself, you should not judge.

What to do can only be decided on a case by case basis by the teenager, the parents and doctors. Making this a political issue was wrong.

But this was not the time to challenge it.

If you biological sex is inconsistent with your “identity” you need a fucking psychiatrist.

[Quote] Who’s kowtowing?

You are

[Quote] If you biological sex is inconsistent with your “identity” you need a fucking psychiatrist.

Exactly what they said about gays. We’re all just ceazy, right?

Except, R37, I've seen a shrink say that they are beyond help, as you need a cooperative patient. They truly believe they are in the "wrong" body, surgery is the only approach they'll accept.

Autogynes are another story.

[quote]Jesus I’m so sick of this argument. A lot of people who hate gays also hate serial killers.

Yeah but when you’re writing a good limerick, “I kidnapped and murdered six serial killers” just doesn’t have the same comedic punch as “I kidnapped and murdered six trannies.”

Some Democrats believe that transgender athletes, particularly in high school, should not compete in women's sports due to concerns about biological differences between males and females. I feel the same way, as it seems to present issues of fairness.

You're full of shit, R40. Many of the transgender people I know have no desire for surgery. They just want to live as they want without harassment, Many trans men just get top surgery and call it quits. Your shrink, if they even exist outside of your post, is a quack.

lol dragging us down. I’m continually shocked at how dumb my fellow gays are. Don’t you get it? The trans haters count us as equally worthless and vile sexual deviants. The cavernous void that you see between G/L and trans is viewed as the same pit of hell by those assholes. You don’t get to say “that’s not us”, we are all the same to them and your protestations are meaningless. And the people you think support you will not protect you when our turn comes.

I don't hate trans nor wish disdain or worse upon them, but I think they have no more to do with gays, lesbians, and bisexuals than do, say. members of British War Nurse Veterans Association. I might cheer on the members of either group, but they've nothing to do my people, and there can be no purpose in trying to construct some all-purpose umbrella to accommodate.

The common enemies thing can work well as a situational alliance, but common enemies are not a source of identity.

[Quote] I've seen a shrink say that they are beyond help, as you need a cooperative patient. They truly believe they are in the "wrong" body, surgery is the only approach they'll accept.

Just like conversion therapy doesn’t work for gays.

[Quote] I don't hate trans nor wish disdain or worse upon them, but I think they have no more to do with gays, lesbians, and bisexuals than do, say. members of British War Nurse Veterans Association.

Interesting how no one cared until the GOP made it a political issue.

When the GOP demonized gays and gay marriage, should LBT have said they wanted to separate from gay?

[Quote] I don't hate trans nor wish disdain or worse upon them, but I think they have no more to do with gays, lesbians, and bisexuals than do, say. members of British War Nurse Veterans Association. I might cheer on the members of either group, but they've nothing to do my people, and there can be no purpose in trying to construct some all-purpose umbrella to accommodate.

All the groups have been demonized as sexual deviants and somehow against biblical teachings. Dividing LGBT has always been a stated goal of the right and the Bots are pushing just that on DL

The societal concept that a person is not truly trans unless they get bottom surgery is just the breeders yet again trying to gatekeep queerness

The trans community wants to bust down doors but in doing so they are losing support from even the most staunch allies. See, e.g., OP.

Are there really people who don't think it's ok for "trans" kids to wait until they are 18 to get hormone therapy and surgery? Their bodies are still in development at that age. I don't understand the rush.

And why should someone who was born a man be competing in women's sports? Think rationally about how unfair that is... competitively.

I don't agree with everything that makes up the "trans agenda," but I do want them to live their lives and have their rights. However, I am under no illusion that removing trans from LGBT is going to somehow make things better for gays and lesbians. I've found that a lot of gay people seem to think that tolerance is acceptance. Instead of worrying so much about what the trans are doing, why not just celebrate how far things have come for gays and lesbians? Who we love isn't considered a mental illness any longer. We can marry, if we so choose. We can adopt, if we want. And while I know that most people would still rather have a straight child than a gay one, no matter what the polls say, and no matter how accepting they appear to be, targeting trans folks isn't going to change that.

This whole issue is an idiot's subconscious pushback against hedonistic post-scarcity, which we are rapidly approaching. Having the time to change our sex seems like decadence to stupid, superstitious people like conservatives. But it's the end result of technological advancement and the proliferation of education. People with leverage over others are losing their shit and warping average people into not letting other individuals live freely. Socialism would give way too much power to each individual to determine their life course. Most people would probably elect to join the matrix all day or have sex all day, etc. That is disgusting to Christians and people who live according to serendipity. They want there to be excessive suffering, so their god can save people occasionally and their charities can get richer. They will never let humans reach a place of peace, pleasure and true personal independence.

In time, society will understand that trans is real state and it makes little sense to demonize and stigmatize kids.

Labeling trans people “mentally ill” accomplishes nothing except it is a license for others to disregard their feelings Who ultimately cares why they believe what they believe? It’s their life. They are entitled to be happy.

The simple fact is that Trans does “drag down” Gay and Lesbian. The extreme right and extreme Christian segments of the population always have and always will hate us. But their bottom line reasoning “because God / Bible / tradition” didn’t stand up to our bottom line reasoning - we just want the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, just like the rest of you; won over the majority of our fellow non-super Conservative / Religious fellow citizens. It came down to a sense of fairness and decency, and the fact that their lives and worlds weren’t actually affected to much - certainly nowhere near the amount the haters said they would be.

The Trans Rights movement, in the other hand has an agenda that strikes most of those people in the middle as unfair, bizarre and sometimes dangerous. It is a very small minority, but issues like girls sports, women’s reatrooms and the like are things that they could see actually affecting their lives - the actual chance of that may be vanishingly small, but humans, especially modern Americans mostly lack a sense of proportion and tend to react emotionally, not with critical thought.

By lumping ourselves together with a group that wants / demands things the vast majority of people (and many Gays & Lesbians) disagree with or are uncomfortable with does lessen support for us.

The whole Trans ball of wax constantly falls back to zero-sum arguments on both sides of the issue.

^^typos and grammar issues above courtesy of typing on my phone while riding the subway”

[quote] I don't understand the rush.

Puberty is the rush. It’s hard enough when you are changing into who you should be. Imagine changing into someone that feels alien to your self-understanding.

Except that Johanna Olsen Kennedy's research, which she paid millions of not her money to fund, showed that transing as a minor didn't help with depression rates or anything else. She, of course, buried this data so we couldn't see it and suddenly decided that this study wasn't important. It's the disingenuous bullshit like this that makes people look askance at this movement. And as someone upthread mentioned, it's always heavily censored when talked about, and of course, this thread will be gone soon. You are not allowed to question your tranny overlords!

LoL, OP, your trans obsession is duly noted. Try as you may to shift focus from the *actual* issues, we still see right through you.

I agree that in many ways gays and trans are in the same boat and we owe them our support and protection. But that does not mean we owe every aspect of their ideology unquestioned endorsement. They should have set an achievable goal—the right to live in safety and free from discrimination. That I endorse 100%. However I did not sign up to convince everyone else that gender is not real or that trans people are actually not different. They are different and that may require some adjustment to their rights where they are in conflict with other people’s rights.

[quote]They are different and that may require some adjustment to their rights where they are in conflict with other people’s rights.

Some would say the same of gays.

Give me an example where gay rights infringe on others? I’m not talking about bullshit like my religious liberty demands that you stay in the closet. However, if a religious person doesn’t want to contribute their work to a same-sex wedding, I think the law should allow them to decline.

I don't want a religious person to contribute to my same-sex wedding if they find it offensive. I'm more than happy to keep the money in the LG community.

We have *major* issues facing us, r62. Trans isn't one of them. But continue to divert from the real ones.

What a bullshit argument.

I don’t want harm caused to any trans person, but we need to be honest with ourselves. This mess and backlash is of their own doing. It’s not the fault of gays and lesbians that trans activists pushed insane things like child transitions that the public was never going to accept, and it’s not our responsibility to stand by their side and go down with the ship. If they really thought the public was going to be cool with mutilating children in the same way they were cool with gay marriage, then they are either retarded or on crack.

[quote]but we need to be honest with ourselves

LoL, you go first, r66.

It's total bullshit.

Those of us old enough to remember the AIDS epidemic and the 80s and 90s remember when our plea was , "please don't hate us. Don't beat us. Don't let us die alone. We too are human!" And finally, it gained headway, until it's really not an issue anymore.

Acceptance is always conditional in society. If we give you respect, we expect respect back. If you want to be part of broader society we expect you to behave by certain rules. When the rules were, "Omg Joe kissed Bob on the cheek, not Sally, wtf!" People were willing to reconsider the rules. But when you made it "omg those fucking terfs won't let us share locker rooms with their daughters, and now we need to cancel everyone and make them fear us!" this is what happened. The fucking shrieking hyperbole from the obvious troon is wrong. This is nothing like being gay and it absolutely went too far. "We just want to pee!" was the plea in 2016, and now...it's fucking insane that the world has collectively agreed to play along with these mentally ill fetishists. And the vile slur "queer" being used all the time, to basically signal nothing because it doesn't even mean anything...it's all gone wrong.

[quote] Labeling trans people “mentally ill” accomplishes nothing except it is a license for others to disregard their feelings

The issue is not about disregarding the feelings of trans people. No-one has the right to do that. However, trans people have no right to expect society to enter into a pact to pretend that a transwoman is the exact equivalent of a woman, or that a transman is the exact same as a man.

And concerns for trans people’s feelings does not take precedence over a lesbian woman’s right not to be condemned as a bigot for not wanting people with penises to be masquerading as women on lesbian dating sites.

R69

[quote]The issue is not about disregarding the feelings of trans people. No-one has the right to do that. However, trans people have no right to expect society to enter into a pact to pretend that a transwoman is the exact equivalent of a woman, or that a transman is the exact same as a man.

You’re absolutely right, and under normal circumstances this is how it works. We are just coming out of a very strange few years in human history where trans people (and supposed “nonbinary” people too) got used to exactly that because of a perfect storm of unusual conditions, mainly social media influence and liberals taking things too far. But now that we are swinging back towards normality in these respects, these oddballs who got used to being pandered to are losing their shit as normal people are realizing they don’t have to play along anymore.