Rome (2005-07)

HBO repeated both seasons a few months ago. It was truly fabulous with Polly Walker and Lindsay Duncan out cunting each other. I think it was cancelled because it was much too expensive.

It was expensive but HBO also went on a "chopping" spree and cancelled several shows before they were done. It was infuriating.

First series was great. The second one felt rushed.

This was a memorable scene from the series -- Marc Antony arriving in Egypt to meet Cleopatra.

I seem to remember that the sets were destroyed in a fire, which would have made producing a third season even more expensive.

Besides the actors OP mentioned, it was probably the first notable role for actors like Kerry Condon, Tobias Menzies, Indira Varma and Allen Leech.

Rome (1963)

I suspect they could revive it and it would be a great success. Yeah, it was expensive, but there is something about ancient Rome that always works. They could pick another era in the Empire (hey, it's 400 years, bitches, you can find something) and probably do well.

The very end of the Western Roman Empire in the late 400s has never gotten its proper due from Hollywood. It could, from HBO.

r6, I always think they could do an amazing TV miniseries about Theodora and Justinian in 6th century Byzantium. I'm still amazed no one has thought to do it.

Magnus penis semper gratus est.

Me too r7. Theodora seems like she could've been invented by Hollywood, Whore Becomes Empress! Totally agree that it's weird nobody has ever done a huge epic of her story.

Ray Stevenson died too young.

It was hard to watch for me because I hated its horrible depiction of Cleopatra.

they did fuck over Cleopatra, that is true. That would definitely need an "adjustment" if they come back. But I'm still thinking different era. So much Rome to go around and they always pick the same era.

Fond memories, OP? Naked James Purefoy comes to mind. Dude was hot.

Loved it. I remember debates on DL about who the biggest bitch in Rome was.

Zero Mostel was great!

I think a more accurate Cleopatra TV series would be more interesting. Like Game of Thrones it would be told through the narratives of Cleopatra, Mark Antony, Cicero, Brutus, Augustus, and Herod the Great. But it’s built around Cleopatra’s timeline.

Mark Antony’s wife Fulvia is constantly ignored in film and TV in favor of Cleopatra. She was basically a mob boss.

Polly Walker would have made the perfect Cersei.

[quote] Theodora seems like she could've been invented by Hollywood, Whore Becomes Empress!

Who could belieff such story?

Servilla's ashes scene was amazing. And RIP dear Ray Stevenson. That man died far too young. Pullo was my favorite character of his and he was the PERFECT actor to play it.

Wonderful cast. I need to watch it again because I can't remember a thing about Cleopatra. The only diss I have on the series is that it's budget killed any chance for a third season of DEADWOOD. I still take that personally.

Kevin McKidd was hot then.

Cleopatra was portrayed in ROME as a very young woman with strange elaborate wigs. She wa splayed by a lovelu actress, lyndseyt Marshall, but there was no clear portrait of what made her so bewitching to Mark Anthony, so it was disappointing.

Yeah all the Egyptians wore the most bizarre costumes. Her outfits looked like Scarlett and Mammy made them.

LOL, R22. That wig at the post above does look like it was made out of decorative drapery tassels.

Does anyone else remember Ian McNeice as Young Wackford Squeers? That was a hell of a performance, as were almost all of them in the 1982 Nicholas Nickleby, and I always noticed him afterward.

Polly Walker was in some dank shit after Rome, before Bridgerton mercifully found her. A real shame because she was so charismatic on that show. The writing helped, of course. I'll never forget when she had all the toenails removed from an extremely hung sex slave because they were all manky and she didn't like the sight of them.

r21 She was 21 when she met Caesar, so the casting seems on point to me, age-wise. Obviously she was 39 when she died, but recasting her just for that final chapter would have been odd.

It's everything else about the character that didn't work. Not that we know what she was actually like because the earliest biographical source about her is Plutarch who was writing 140 years after her death. And some fairly critical letters from Cicero, her contemporary.

Interesting enough, the real life Servilia lived to old age and died of natural causes.

I was so repulsed by Lynsey Marshal as Cleopatra that I stopped watching.

[quote] it's budget killed any chance for a third season of DEADWOOD. I still take that personally.

I’m the shame, with Carnivàle. The show runner is a right wing lunatic, but I still mourn the loss of a season 3.

HBO was saving for Game of Thrones. It pretty much sucked up the budget of the rest of the period-drama shows.

[quote]it's budget

Oh, dear!

r28 I know you didn't mean to, but your comment could be read as implying HBO knew GoT would be a monster hit four years before it premiered, which is why they cancelled Rome.

I think ROME had some good moments. Its greatest strength was probably in making the city of Rome feel like a living, breathing entity with all its sounds and smells.

However, I thought the quality of the writing was variable on this show and often paled in comparison to the BBC's groundbreaking 'I, Claudius' from the 1970's.

Sigh. R29, I changed the spelling to its and the sentence still didn't look right. I am sorry and ashamed. I appreciate DL's grammar sticklers, so... yep. Guilty and apologetic.

R31 unfortunately, in dramatic terms, the writing was not a patch on I, Claudius. It’s why I never got into the show.

if you "never got near the show," how do you know "the writing was not a patch on I, Claudius"?

R32 An easy test is to remember that "it's" is short for "it is."

So if you aren't sure, try putting "it is" in the place of it's or its. If it sounds right (It's a sunny day, or it is a sunny day) then it's is correct. But if it sounds odd (the cat lost its collar, or the cat lost it is collar) then its is the correct one.

The easiest way to remember is that possession means no apostrophe because the two letters – T and S – love sticking together and nothing can come between their love, not even an apostrophe! That's the mnemonic trick our English teacher (I'm ESL) showed us in third grade and I haven't fucked it up once since.

Thanks, grammar peeps. :) Appreciate it.

Yes, if the Greek slaves are done discussing the finer points of grammar, let's get back to reviving Rome.

I love the Fulvia idea. One thing I really liked about Rome was the whole street level, street crime, and street gangs playing such a role. It did make the whole city seem more real than some abstract, well-run city where only the patricians seem to have their conflicts. She and her gangster husband would be interesting to build a series around, and then watching her become Octavian's mother in law, and then Antony's wife seems really fun and interesting.

Watching this made me recall so many fond memories of my early days in politics.

R34 - I did get “near” the show - I watched 4 or 5 episodes.

But as I wrote, I didn’t get “into” it.

I thought the character of Cleo was treated shamefully. An opium addicted, immature sex addict is nothing like the real Cleopatra.

What was the real Cleopatra like, r41? And how do you know, since almost all of the sources about her were written decades after she died?

r42 That was my point, we have no idea. One grumpy old man who actually met her (Cicero) mentioned her in her letters, but that's it. Also, the later sources were written a century or more after she died, not decades.

But the way she's portrayed on the show was off from a dramatic point of view, not a historic one.

*historical

r7 The Eastern Romans are unfortunately still too exotic and remote for Westerners. But yes, such a series would be awesome. The History of Byzantium is still the only podcast I've ever paid subscription for. That was two years ago and I still haven't finished all the 300+ episodes I downloaded during that window. Highly recommended.

She was by all accounts intelligent and extremely well educated for the times. Not beautiful but her charm was her wit and conversation.

Rome began during heady days of HBO. The Sopranos, The Wire, Carnivale, and Deadwood were all airing in 2005. I recall that it was planned as five seasons, in a partnership with the BBC, but HBO blamed BBC budgetary restrictions on the revised plan to do 22 episodes in 2 seasons. Too bad there wasn't another season at least.

I loved Cleopatra . I found her riveting to watch and I adored her way of speaking. I loved the whole series and was devastaed when they cance;led it. Ive rewatched it many times and never get tired of it and always discover something new. Polly Walker out cunted every other bitch on the show ! She was THE cunt !

Cupio clunes meas sine misericordia a Tito Pullone tundi.

R24 Polly was in the Battle Star Galactica prequel Caprica soon after Rome, playing the headmistress of a school. Here’s was an interesting character.

I got off many times to Simon Woods' tight ass thrusting away in a rough sex scene.

Little known fact r49. that was written on Octavian's grave (the secret one).

It's an interesting series, and it's very well done in terms of its historical accuracy.

Its biggest mistake was not having a riveting star performance at the center. James Purefoy was supposed to provide that, but he didn't pull it off, either there or later (despite the fact that he is very handsome). Nor did Kevin McKidd, who is excellent as Vorenus but still somehow not magnetic.

Had either of them been intensely charismatic, it would have been a much bigger success, the way "I, Claudius" was because of Derek Jacobi, John Hurt, and Sian Phillips. (And also because of Brian Blessed and Margaret Tyzack, although neither of them gets the kind of paise they bothd eserve because their parts were less showy and so they get overshadowed by the others.)

I LOVED this show and was quite sad not to get a third season but from the HBO financial perspective, I get it. I remember reading somewhere where HBO admitted that there probably wouldn't be a Game of Thrones if it wasn't for the brief success of Rome.

r53, I respectfully disagree about Kevin McKidd. The bromance chemistry between him and Ray Stevenson was very appealing and in some cases, downright hot. I had a few great jerk offs fantasizing about being in a 3-way with those two. Rest in Peace Ray!

The rivalry between Atia, one of the meanest bitches in TV history who doesn't get talked about enough, and Servilia was my favorite element of the show. Wasn't crazy about watching Atia set up Servilia to get ganged raped. That was pretty rough. What I liked most is that even though Servilia ended up committing ritual suicide behind that, her death curse worked and she did get the last laugh when you consider the way Atia lost her true love Mark Anthony to Cleopatra and the deep depression that followed. That kind of broke Atia. L

My favorite acting moment was Polly Walker (Atia) zoom in close up when she witnessed her lost love Mark Anthony's dead body being paraded through the streets of Rome. Magnificent work from Polly.

The funniest scene for me was Octavian (what a bitchy queen). After he witnessed Cleopatra dying from the snake bite suicide, the camera cuts to him lying down with a cold compress on his head, just like a queen. Hysterical!

I would've loved to see a third season with Atia and Livia going at it. They clearly hated each other but we know from I, Claudius that Livia was no punk and would've more than hold her own against Atia.

Love how in an exchange with Livia in the series finale, Atia gave Servilia her props while shading Livia. "Remember. There was a far, far better woman than you who thought she could destroy me too. Where is she now.?"

I read somewhere that if there was a third season, they was going to do a brief time jump and build the third season storyline around Jesus Christ.

R53, I agree that the acting in "I, Claudius" was rock solid across the board. As you say, Derek Jacobi and Sian Phillips were excellent (and they both won BAFTAs for their roles). I think Brian Blessed did win a New York Critic's Circle Award as Augustus, one of the best performances of his career. And Margaret Tyzack was indeed a solid actress, although her noble Antonia got overshadowed by the other female characters of Livia, Julia, Agrippina, Livilla & Messalina.

In terms of "Rome" I would say that it was Ciarán Hinds who was the most solid actor in Season 1 as Julius Caesar. Once he got assassinated at the end of the first season I think the show lost some gravitas.

I don't think Tyzack was "overshadowed" by anyone. It's a supporting role and she was superb in it; she very much commands your attention in every scene she's in.

She actually has the largest female role in the series; she's in 9 episodes (out of 13) compared to Sian Phillips' 8 episodes, though Phillips has more screen time than Tyzack.

R51, here is the scene of Simon Woods' tight ass thrusting away:

(Woods came out as gay a few years later)

I think Brian Blessed did win a New York Critic's Circle Award as Augustus…

Um NO. There is no such award for television.

"I, Claudius" had great writing and acting, but "Rome" did as well for all the reasons listed already.

Loved Ray Stevenson. A great scene was of him screwing Cleopatra as he and Lucius bring in that contraption across the desert.

James Purefoy and Polly Walker both got chunky on the second season. There was also a new Octavian. He was better suited for the role.