New memorial to gay victims of Nazi persecution unveiled in Paris

When were the "BTQ+'s" involved in The Holocaust? Did they help end WW2?

The gays and lesbians were thrown in the concentration camps, tortured, raped, beaten, abused and some murdered.

When did the Queers save the Jews & others

Yes, it was GAY MEN who were murdered in the Holocaust. These assholes can take their revisionist history and shove it.

Where are the LBTQ+ in this photo?

It's "revisionist History" according to the LGBTQ's group.

Once again, they are rewriting Gay& Lesbian History as their struggle for "THEIR RIGHTS".

They finally tried to "rewrite" the Holocaust!1

Homosexual men were the victims, not fucking "queer," non-binary etc. What bullshit.

I wanna see the silver side.

Regardless of LGBTetc self-identity, biology controlled Nazi responses to "sexual degeneracy." Biological males who were gay or trans were treated as men, dressed in males clothes, and persecuted as men. Lesbians were not primarily persecuted as men were, partly because of a lack of any laws outlawing lesbianism, but discretion/self-abnegation was required (active assaults on lesbian networks were carried out). Lesbians who were Jewish or members of other denounced groups or who were political in the wrong way were arrested and punished according to what the Nazis laid out for those other categories.

Did someone expect to see drag queens, transgender people or members of other groups being criticized here dressed as women by the Nazis? What do you know about anything except trying to make people you disapprove of disappear as an alternative to their attempts to gain visibility and presence? What is the source of the hatred because some trans people seem to be too pushy, unreasonable, silly or irritating to you.

The Nazis and, ultimately, today's American and international fascists weren't and aren't so precious about their discrimination among groups. They start with trans people as outliers and then work their way through to gay men and others. Pretending that there is no relationship among sex-and-gender groups is ridiculous. The basics are that if someone turned you in for being a sexual deviant, you were nailed. One's carefully curated self-concept as being "queer" "two-spirit," or "non-binary" wouldn't matter if one was - or is - fucking around with men with one's male or surgically altered body. We're all in the same category, ultimately.

And the savagery seen among some purported gay men here is just bigotry closer to the fascist view than any other. You don't protect gay rights by denouncing others, no matter what your opinion of them is.

My great grandfather's brother was a gay drag performer in Berlin in Weimar and early Nazi times. The family was proud of him for being a well-known, "classy" entertainer. I have a photo of him in his finery. He disappeared during the war and was never heard from again.

I recall Eddie Izzard saying he would have been a victim of the Nazis if he'd lived in that period. Because the Nazis famously oppressed blue eyed blond heterosexual men who dressed funny.

R9 = Andrew Doyle?

Are the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence part of the monument?

A Russian trans battalion liberated Auschwitz.

That's a terribly sad story, R8. I'm so sorry.

Thanks for telling us about your great grand-uncle.

R8 you make a ton of great points. And I tend to agree.

But I also think it's okay to remember that MOST of the LGBT Holocaust victims were, in fact, gay men. If only to honor their shortened lives and horrific deaths.

Of course, that doesn't mean we don't honor the LBT+ victims, too.

It might be one of those instances where its best to have two different memorials. One dedicated solely to gay men. And another dedicated to lesbians, trans and drag performers.

R8: the more prickly responses on this thread might just be a reaction to some of the activist-led revisionism we've seen in recent years: claims about TWOC at Stonewall, claims about trans people being the "first target of the Nazis", Rowling being branded a 'holocaust denier' for being skeptical of this claim, and downplaying the role of "blond, cisgender, white gay men" in the LGBT rights movement.

[quote]Writing to commemorate the rebellion in The New York Times, the director of policy and programs at the Transgender Law Center describes Stonewall as the place “where trans women of color led the resistance that started the national L.G.B.T.Q.-rights movement.” In a symposium for Harper’s magazine, a transgender author named T Cooper declares, “If it were not for us, Stonewall might not have happened.” The National Center for Transgender Equality contends that, “Although the exact identity of the person who started the riots is lost to history, we know that trans women, especially trans women of color, played a central role in the resistance.”

[quote]Topping a recent New York Times list of “LGBTQ Pioneers” deserving of statues in their honor is the late Marsha P. Johnson, who variously identified herself as a gay man and a drag queen, and whom the paper credits with “spearheading the rebellion at Stonewall as a transgender African-American woman.” Two weeks later, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio heeded the call by announcing that Johnson and Sylvia Rivera, another transgender activist often credited as leading the insurrection, would be honored with a statue in the vicinity of the old Stonewall Inn. “Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera are undeniably two of the most important foremothers of the modern LGBTQ rights movement, yet their stories have been erased from a history they helped create,” declared New York City’s first lady, Chirlane McCray, in a statement lauding the pair’s “leading role at Stonewall.”

[quote]Stonewall revisionism has even reached the upper echelons of the gay mainstream establishment, with the Human Rights Campaign, the country’s leading LGBT advocacy group, and Mayor Pete Buttigieg, the first serious openly gay presidential candidate, mouthing its mantras. “Harassed by local police simply for congregating, Stonewall’s LGBTQ patrons—most of whom were trans women of color—decided to take a stand and fight back against the brutal intimidation they regularly faced at the hands of police,” asserts an article on the website of HRC. Buttigieg, no doubt smarting from accusations that he’s not gay enough, last month tweeted that “#Pride celebrates a movement that traces back to the courage of trans women of color 50 years ago this weekend.”

If trans women of color had actually led the gay rights movement homosexuality would still be illegal.

[quote][R8]: the more prickly responses on this thread might just be a reaction to some of the activist-led revisionism we've seen in recent years: claims about TWOC at Stonewall, claims about trans people being the "first target of the Nazis", Rowling being branded a 'holocaust denier' for being skeptical of this claim, and downplaying the role of "blond, cisgender, white gay men" in the LGBT rights movement.

Absolutely.

I've seen troons argue that "the Holocaust" was started with trans people. No, "The Holocaust" was the industrial mass murder of Jews. Troons get very angry when Jews are centred in "the Holocaust", they genuinely believe the concentration camps, gas chambers and train lines were all built for them.

Yes the Nazis targeted homosexuals and gender non conforming people, just like they targeted the political opposition, protesters, people with disabilities, the elderly, other races. But the primary target of "The Holocaust" was, famously, Jews. Religious Jews, atheist Jews, dark Jews, blond Jews, young Jews, old Jews, socialist Jews, conservative Jews.

Of course the aim of this activism from the far left isn't to push trans people as the real victims, it's part of a campaign to unlink Jews from "The Holocaust". And it's working. One of the main British news shows presented an item on Holocaust Memorial Day and mentioned all the groups targeted by the Nazis except one. Can you guess which?

[quote]And the savagery seen among some purported gay men here is just bigotry closer to the fascist view than any other. You don't protect gay rights by denouncing others, no matter what your opinion of them is.

And a reminder, these things aren't fascist:

1. Letting females have their own sporting competitions free from males.

2. Letting females have their own changing rooms and toilets free from males.

3. Letting females have their own accommodation free from males, such as refuges, rape crisis centres and prisons.

4. Letting lesbians have lesbian meet ups that males can be excluded from (hi Roxy Tickle!)

5. Letting gay men have their own spaces that females can be excluded from.

6. Recording the correct sex of perpetrators in crimes, in particular sex offences.

7. Acknowledging that people can't change their biological sex, despite hormone treatment and surgery.

Read The Men of The Pink Triangle and watch Paragraph 175. Both are excellent.