Peter Lassally says that Joan Rivers was a liar about “The Tonight Show”

Joan Rivers' complaints that was a victim of misogyny are a cover for her own ambition and willingness to go behind the backs of others.

I don't know that I blame her for going out on her own, and I don't doubt she faced all manner of hurdles in her career at its various phases. But to cry about how hard won every little thing was and how badly done by she was by the world...that she died with a net worth of $150Million suggests she didn't have it so very tough as she would have people believe.

Jesus, listening to that guy is like watching grass grow. Did he just come out of a coma before that interview?

I'm confused, Peter Lassally. You say that the permanent guest host choice for "The Tonight Show" came down to Garry Shandling and Joan Rivers, and the job went to Joan Rivers by default when GS got "It's Garry Shandling's Show" (on Showtime). But IGSS began in September of 1986. Joan Rivers was made permanent "Tonight Show" guest host in August of 1983. Howzat work?

I hate pregnant pauses, that's why I can listen to Michelangelo ...... for fuck sake stop the glitching......

Each time Joan told the story she became more of a victimized martyr, until she was Mother Teresa tied to the railroad tracks.

Well, we now know how Joan, Ed and Johnny died. Boredom after listening to Peter drone on and...........on.

Peters definitely confused because Larry talks about here not becoming the permanent guest host when jaylen did because of the it's Garry shandling show.

Poor Edgah. And Melissa changed her name to Rivers? He offed himself to get away from those two harpies.

Joanie was a cunt but Johnny was a bigger one.

R3 is correct - this guy is an asshole and trying to protect Johnny Carson.

Joan became permanent guest host in 1983. Shandling was guest host only 7 times 1985-1986. Garry Shandling show started in 1986, same year as Joan's first year with her own show on Fox.

All of his timeline and facts are off. There was not an equal Rivers/Shandling guest hosting setup.

He's a lying piece of shit.

The aftermath of Joan's banning is pretty funny to me. Garry Shandling, who had only ever guest hosted three times before at that point, served as guest host for two weeks during the summer of 1986. I assume Garry was filling obligations Joan was originally contracted for.

During 1986-87, the guest hosts included people who clearly weren't aiming to replace Johnny (Betty White, Bill Cosby, Tony Danza, etc.) but also Garry (13 times), who still could have been in play if it wasn't for his Showtime series, and for the first time, Jay Leno (also 13 times, from September 1986-August 1987). In 1987-88, Jay guest hosted 41 times, compared to Garry's 13.

Loosely related to the topic, but suppose David Letterman had gotten The Tonight Show after Johnny. Would NBC have allowed it to move back to New York? Suppose Leno was given the Late Night with ... timeslot, and continued broadcasting from Burbank.

R11 - so to confirm, Peter is lying now that both Joan and Johnny are dead.

Good God this guy is very dull.

What's hilarious to me is that he calls Joan Rivers a liar - when it's very easy to fact check his statements and prove that he's wrong and HE's the one who is lying.

[quote]Joan Rivers' complaints that was a victim of misogyny are a cover for her own ambition and willingness to go behind the backs of others.

Welcome to showbusiness.

And it's funny how Johnny demanded so much from Joan, yet David Brenner did the same thing and was welcomed back to The Tonight show with open arms. Makes me wonder if the rumors were true that they had an affair.

Carson did try to fuck a lot of the women who appeared on his show. Ask Sally Field, Cybill Shepherd, Joyce Dewitt to name a few. Ask Cher about how he had her blacklisted from appearing when he was all because she laughed at Lucille Ball's Nixon jokes during a party. Ask Wayne Newton about how he threated to beat Johnny up for trying to make fun of him because he thought Newton was gay.

[quote]that she died with a net worth of $150Million suggests she didn't have it so very tough as she would have people believe.

And Johnny Carson, who worked a lot less as a comedian than Rivers did, died with a net worth of $300M.

One of the most important facts which Lassally left out was that whenever Joan guest hosted prior to becoming the 'permanent guest host' in 1983, she received the highest ratings of anyone else who guest hosted (including Shandling). This is why Carson chose her. And there were times throughout the seasons when she was permanent guest host, and her week's ratings actually beat Carson's in the prior weeks. As RIvers said afterwards, that didn't sit well with Carson - he didn't mind you being successful, but not more successful than him.

R17 - Johnny Carson wasn't ever a comedian. He was a host for radio then TV - his comedy bits were from writers.

Johnny ended up owning the Tonight Show though Carson Productions - that's how he made so much money.

I think when Joan took her big shot at fame she had no idea of the huge mistake she was making.

FOX would have let her show continue but she had to get rid of her husband.

Those choices left her with a dead husband and a deader career. That's when she became the victim.

" FOX would have let her show continue but she had to get rid of her husband. "

r19 Wow, I never knew that. I really need to read a bio of Joan. I forgot that her husband offed himself.

R18, Actually, Carson would book a few nights around Las Vegas in various nightclubs (his go-to-place was the Sahara Tahoe) and do stand-up when he took time off from his show. He filled in for Ann Margaret in the late 70s, when she had to cancel her appearance. His show was described as 'one long monologue from his show' (about 90 minutes). Carson would try out jokes from the writers of his show and a few of his own. If a joke really worked, it would show up in his monologue in the coming weeks. Carson had said back then he enjoyed doing these shows, as doing the opening monologue each night was his favorite part of the show. When he retired in the early 90s from late night talk show, he mentioned he was thinking about a 'retirement job' and hinted at hitting the road again as a stand up. However, it never came to fruition.

Johnny and Joan were peas in a pod. Great at what they did but rather miserable people. They deserved each other.

I just thought of something that I never thought of before.

I always thought it was weird that Johnny Carson's ex-wives all had the same name: Joan, Joanne, Joanna. Even as a kid, I was like - he sure has a type, doesn't he?

Joan Rivers was the fourth woman with that name in his life.

Probably insignificant - or all coincidental - but what are the odds?

During The Tonight Show heyday, I was a big fan of both Joan and Johnny.

Regarding Joan's departure from The Tonight Show, I believe some of Joan's story and some of Johnny's story. The truth lies somewhere in the middle regarding when Joan called Johnny and the surrounding circumstances. I would give Joan the benefit of the doubt and give her more of an edge regarding the truth.

R24: I actually believe this from Wiki below. They were never going to give her the show and she kept loyal and was only being used as permanent host. She hosted almost 100 shows in 3-4 years. That's a LOT considering they were doing around 150 shows per year. That's like 1 out of every 6 shows she hosted - and I remember she was on pretty frequently. At the end of the day - Carson owned the show and she wasn't going to secure a future there - so why not move when you're giving them GREAT ratings? Then Carson with his power had her blackballed.

"Many in 1986, including top executives at NBC, thought it was possible that Johnny Carson would retire after reaching his 25th anniversary on October 1, 1987, as it was such a logical cut-off point. In spring 1986, a confidential memo between top NBC executives listing about 10 possible successors in the event of Carson's retirement the next year was leaked. Rivers was shocked to see that she was not on the list.[1]

In an article she wrote for People magazine, Rivers said that NBC offered her only a one-year contract in 1985 as permanent guest host while Carson's contract had been renewed for two years, which signaled to her that her future was uncertain as her previous one year contracts had run the same length as Carson's. In addition, Rivers noted numerous snubs from NBC executives over the years, such as not being invited to the annual Carson party until recently, and taking the fall for a controversial joke that management approved during rehearsal. Rivers had received higher-paying offers from other networks in prior years but declined them out of her loyalty to Carson, but in 1986 as NBC was unwilling to give assurances on her future and negotiations were fruitless,"

Did they ever reveal who was on that list of potential successors? Letterman is obvious, but what about David Brenner? Garry Shandling?

Gary Shandling was only mildly funny or appealing.

Thanks, R25