Do you think Hollywood can be saved?

Personally, I think it's because major Hollywood film studios (Disney, Sony, Warner, Universal and Paramount) don't care anymore about doing authentic movies for grown-ups, like they did before.

I think the 2000s (and probably the first half of the 2010s decade) was the last time where the big studios still released those kind of films. (Erotic, politcal thrillers, westerns, belic dramas, period romance, neo-noir, etc.)

For example, a movie like "Unfaithful" (which was released by 20th Century Fox in 2002) wouldn't be released by one of the Big five nowadays.

I also consider that PC has a lot to do in that.

It's a business, with CEOs that are paid obscene amounts to tackle exactly these sorts of problems. Not that that will stop them from going to California's taxpayers for yet another round of bailouts. Sorry, I mean tax credits.

The line between film and TV is now longer important except maybe in Accounting. More importantly, where there was once one Hollywood as a capital of the industry, now there are many, in many countries. Hollywood stopped producing Independent Films but other countries now produce high quality and fresh entertainment. Hollywood carries on producing big suoerhero/action hits (and misses) and highly salable shit detective) emergency services/hospital series with a wide international market - and I imagine they will do for a while. Increasingly people watch films at home on TV, and the quality of short TV series often exceeds the quality of the most expensive films. The line is lost between TV and film and awards ceremonies like the (scars seem especially provincial now - like parties from 40 or 50 years ago of gay men watching the Tonys. Hollywood is only going to get smaller, and only in getting smaller will it have any hope to get any better.

R3 They haven’t realized this.

It’s all too expensive at this point. The cast and special effects must make up a huge chunk of the the budgets today and the issue is the cast aren’t even box office draws at this point.

They need to go back to practical effects too.

The last Alien movie was $80 million with practical effects and a no name cast and did $350 million.

It’s cause they got rid of the stars and special effects.

R1 Well the thing is, grown ups today grew up with super hero and comic book movies starting since the 90s. People born in the 80s had Batman and the new Star Wars all the way to Spider Man by a teenager. Also franchises like Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter and Twilight.

That’s why those movies like “Unfaithful” are gone.

Now under 40 will go see horror movies which are smaller budgets because it’s more of an experience than a drama.

Horror movies are the biggest they’ve ever been because they offer the same thrills and experience as action / super hero / comics.

Not happening, OP. It’s over.

[quote] Now under 40 will go see horror movies

Of course they do. The Scream and Halloween franchise is beloved by kids.

[quote] belic dramas

Huh?

Only homosexuals care about this shit. The world has moved on.

streaming is the reason

I think it’s a new version of Hollywood. Streaming the adult films. Superman movies for kids in the movie houses.

Why even try to save it. I don't see what is so special about H Wood. Every dog has its day. Video games are the new choice of entertainment now. H wood has consumed every possible cheap trick and stereotypical shortcut to their profit and their clients benefit they can think of. They are 50 percent propaganda product placement and fluff on a good day. Seeing H wood go away wouldn't make me sad at all.

Hollywood has never dealt well with changes. The sound to talkies was painful and a lot of careers end. Postwar, the studios were forced to sell their theaters. After the war, movie audiences dropped by half. During the '50s, TV was their major competition. Later came cable. Then home video. Then streaming. And now post-Covid, people prefer to watch movies, cable, and streaming on their behemoth TV screens. The film industry has always seemed on the defensive to me, rarely getting ahead of the curve.

R12. You’ll play video games all day? Or just go for a walk?

Going to the theatre is no longer special or pleasant; many people are fine staying at home watching a movie on their home systems, and that's okay for them. Is the problem the movies or the theatre-going experience, which is not a studio problem but a theatre owner's problem? Is a movie, popcorn, and a drink really a $40 per person evening?

I do think certain movies put asses in seats. I've tried all week to see Sinners, and every show is booked. I'm also annoyed that the new "filmed for Imax" tags on movies, but you must search for Imax showings.

Right, I'm not spending 40 bucks to sit in a theater. I have a 4k tv at home and a 4k blu ray player and they are great. I don't want to go to the movies unless it's something really worth it.

It'll be better when they recognize that movie theaters and traditional TV networks are a thing of the past.

Tech companies taking over the entertainment industry and letting algorithms determine what gets made killed it. There's no more creativity, just making whatever is safest, because costs have exploded. So many movies now feel empty and unoriginal. Every Netflix film looks like plastic garbage. Does it care? Nope.

R18, you're so right about Netflix movies. I haven't seen a single one worth recommending. Remember Bird Box? The hype for that was insane, totally disproportionate to the quality of the movie.

As someone who so many movies from the time that my parents allowed me to go on my own (I was probably 13 and it was 1972) until the mid-90s I can barely even remember the enthusiasm I felt for a new picture. Age has a lot to do with it, but it's also the performers. Honestly, who ARE these people?! I never particularly liked Hoffman or Pacino but I saw their movies because they were generally well-made. Even those dreadful disaster movies like "The Towering Inferno" and "Earthquake" were enjoyable because the disaster scenes were the work of craftsman, not computer programmers. (I told you I was old.) The shift from self-described performers to artists has a lot to do with it, I think. For decades performers craved audience approval and validation. The old-timers performers entertained *for* the audience. Now the audience is expected to watch in awe as many today pursue their art. In the immortal, if apocryphal, words of Samuel Goldwyn, include me out.

I wonder too about the ancillary effect on the Oscars. What's a movie? What's a TV show? What's the difference? Will the Oscars fold after its 100th ceremony in five years?

R20, I am much younger than you but agree with everything you said.

Cleopatra was 1963

I think, in the past, cinema went big or went home. But nowadays longer films dont hold much appeal. Our attention spans have shrunk. The amount of stuff on streaming that i give up on after less than 20 mins is ridiculous. I think every movie or show will have to make sure something incredible happens early on to make us stay hooked. So, imagine being at a movie in the theater thats not grabbing you; it wont be long b4 this happening a few times will put u off for good. Mission Impossible 7 and Wicked got me back in a theater. I was really surprised Jurassic World 3 didnt. I used to love the theater but its not great nowadays.

And in the US you risk sitting behind a family with 4 year old who watches cartoons on an iPad.

I've actually watched more movies in the last few years than I ever did before. I just don't watch them in theaters.

Hollywood needs to make more movies in the $3-10 million ranges so that investors make their money back. The day of a $40 million dollar film are over.

Those tend to be the movies I like anyway.

There are many things wrong with the movie industry today.

1. Budgets are out of control. If studios are putting hundreds of millions of dollars into their blockbusters, it doesn't leave much of anything for smaller films.

2. Studios have become risk-averse. They rely on "franchises" and "IP" because they're afraid to take a chance on something that hasn't already proven itself. You would think that when they see audience excitement for an original movie like "Sinners", they would be willing to take a shot at more originals.

3. Theaters have become too big with too many screens. This may seem counterintuitive and one might think fewer screens would mean fewer oppurtunities for more films. But what's the point of having 24 screens in a theater if half of those are taken up by the latest blockbuster that isn't even selling out showings? Put that film on fewer screens with larger audiences. That will open up other screens for more films than just the blockbusters. And theaters have become so massive and their overhead has become so much that they have to charge outrageous prices, both at the box office and at the concession stand, just to try to stay afloat.

4. Theatrical windows have become too short. Often a movie is only in a theater for a couple of weeks before it shows up on a VOD or streaming platform. Why pay high theater prices when you can wait a couple of weeks and watch it at home? And is it even possible for a studio to earn more from a streaming release than they could make in a theatrical run?

5. Along with #4, showtimes at theaters have become inconsistent. In the past, you could pretty much count on showtimes being on a set schedule that changed on a weekly basis. Now, the movie you want to see (if it's not the latest blockbuster) may be limited to one or two showings a day (if it is even available every day) and the times may change from day to day. It makes it difficult to plan an outing to see something.

Those are just a few of the problems I see with the current situation. The film and theater industries seem to be in a death spiral of their own making. I'm not sure if they will ever do what they should to pull out of it.

Yeah it’s cheaper to go to a nice restaurant than it is to go to the movies.

R26 You definitely made some good points because we’re not thinking about movie theaters and the effects they actually have on Hollywood.

So here’s some interesting knowledge:

Movie studios used to own theaters. Vertical integration: studios controlled production, distribution, and exhibition

Paramount, Warner Bros, MGM, and RKO all had theater chains. In 1948, the U.S. Supreme Court issued the Paramount Decree, forcing studios to divest their theaters.

In 2020, the Paramount Decree was officially terminated by the Department of Justice. Now, in theory, studios can own theaters again.

But it’s about if it’s profitable investment because of streaming today.

Ok, what’s “IP”?

I’m old and a bit out of touch.

One other thing which can't be ignored is the adult film industry, which really took off by the early 70s. I remember so many 'old movie palaces' built fifty years earlier throughout my city which were about to close and be torn down, survive by turning to 'XXX' movies. Not sure if it had any effect on Hollywood itself, but I have a feeling any movies made had some kind of 'trickle effect' throughout the Hollywood industry. The adult movie business lasted about 20 years, before 'home video' became a household addition, and people realized they could enjoy their adult entertainment from their own bedrooms. (In my area, many of those old movie palaces are still standing - after the 'XXX' films ended, they were remodeled into performing arts centers).

We need better slasher flicks.

R29, IP=Intellectual Property.

Original characters/stories a studio owns from previous movies. Example: Ghostbusters, Top Gun, Star Wars, etc.

Stories/characters a studio has purchased the rights to. Example: The Avengers, Superman, Mario Brothers, etc.

Film has lost its allure and ability to surprise. I picked from 2000 some films that mostly could be labeled Independent-Type, maybe not to a strict definition to what I think is a perceived sense of titles that don't fit an easy mold or expectation. And I added in a few of the big hits of the year, maybe not something I would go to the cinema to see but would watch on an airplane or if it popped up on streaming and thought, "eh, good enough, maybe."

There are some excellent films in the list, including 3 great favorites (Wonder Boys, Amores Perros, Requiem for a Dream); George Clooney's only good film to my knowledge (O Brother), and some films that were memorably good or interesting if not on my all time favorites list. Final Destination is the first of a big franchise, but for young adult horror it's maybe the one such series I would say is clever.

But to look at 2024? What utter shit: The Substance? Civil War? There's nothing that stands out.

Film is dead for American cinema. American broadcast network TV exista only to launch horrible formulaic series that can be syndicates ad infinitum. The good content and the only hope for more in in streaming services. In 2000, HBO had Oz, The Sopranos, and Curb Your Enthusiasm starting or underway, and l Six Feet Under, The Wire, Carnivale, Deadwood, and Rome would all roll out in the next couple of years.)

I agree that film on streaming services is at best often of middling quality. Their strength is in series. But there have been many superb streaming series that outdo films if the last couple decades.

If you like film, look to foreign films where you can still find very good things. Fewer and fewer original series and films come from Hollywood - Netflix might have offices there but Game of Thrones, Money Heist... the original series of exceptional quality either wholly from outside the US or were non-US productions with actors and settings and technical crew for other parts of the world.

From the IMDB Top 50 films in 2000:

Wonder Boys

Snatch

Requiem for a Dream

Memento

Billy Elliot

American Psycho

O Brother, Where Art Thou?

Amores Perros

Traffic

High Fidelity

The Beach

Chocolate

Dancing in the Dark

X-Men

Final Destination

Gladiator

Almost Famous

Nine Queens

Quills

Theatrical film exhibition has lasted a lot longer than I would have expected. There's still something to seeing a film on a big screen in an auditorium that even the most deluxe home system can't compare with. And it's nice to get out of the house sometimes.

These are all my points, cleaned up for readability with ChatGPT. ⸻

What you are seeing is the result of several converging cultural, business, and technological trends that could best be described as “death by postmodernism.”

Let’s break this down into film and television. (I’ll post television later.)

⸻

FILM

1. The Death of the Mid-Budget Adult Movie

Script-driven, adult-focused studio pictures—like Tootsie or Pretty Woman—are pushed out of Hollywood’s business model. The rise of the international box office shifts focus to spectacle over story. Franchises and IP become king, as they are easier to export across cultures.

2. Industry Stratification

Theatrical film splits into four camps:

• Big studio franchise drivel

• “Boutique” prestige arms (Focus Features, Searchlight)

• Streamer-sponsored prestige knockoffs (Netflix, Amazon/MGM)

• “Gourmet indies” (A24, Neon)

The mid-budget commercial drama—once the backbone of Hollywood—is nowhere to be found.

3. The Studio Collapse

Poor leadership and corporate mismanagement leave Paramount, Sony, and Lionsgate trailing. Warner Bros. becomes a sinking ship. In practical terms, only Disney and Universal remain as major players.

4. Awards Irrelevance

With theaters split between “popcorn” and “art,” the Oscars lose cultural currency. The movies the public watches aren’t the ones the Academy celebrates.

5. The Awards Season Bubble

In response, the industry doubles down on Award Season—a three-month self-indulgent echo chamber. Obscure performances in barely-seen films (remember Brian Tyree Henry in Causeway?) are elevated as cultural milestones. Meanwhile, a bloated pre-Oscar circuit preordains winners, draining the ceremony of suspense.

6. The Death of the Movie Star

Without mid-budget vehicles or populist dramas, “movie stars” become irrelevant. IP is the draw. Actors are interchangeable. Star power—the ability to open a movie on name alone—fades into extinction.

7. The Death of the Magazine Cover

Print media collapses, taking with it the last great star-making platform. The Vanity Fair or Interview cover, once a cultural coronation, loses impact. Social media—chaotic, gatekeeper-free, and flattening—replaces it. The mystique is gone.

8. The Netflix Effect

Netflix throws its cash at prestige “packages,” gives them minimal theatrical runs, then dumps them onto streaming, where most people barely notice. It backs massive awards campaigns for films with no cultural resonance (*see: Emilia Pérez with 13 Oscar nominations) further degrading the Oscars’ relevance and the idea of film as shared culture.

9. The Collapse of the Theatrical Window

The once-sacred theatrical window—which gave movies time to build momentum, word-of-mouth, and cultural relevance—shrinks to a matter of weeks, or even days. Movies arrive in homes before they’ve had a chance to live in the public imagination. Theatergoing becomes irrelevant. By eliminating the things which gave movies cultural currency, people are easily distracted by other things - home being watching, YouTube, social media, video games.