Death and Immortality

You go to the same place/state you were in for 13.7 billion years, between the birth of the universe and your conception. Wasn't that nothingness as well?

[quote]There just can’t be nothingness.

You won't have the senses available to you to perceive either something or nothing, so I wouldn't worry about that.

R1 I know and that’s what’s scary. However I I don’t believe it to be true. The mind cannot perceive nothing. It’s going to manifest something to compensate for one’s physical demise. And thus new life.

I don't know. Does it matter? You cant change it.

Nothingness.

That is your fate, no matter what you desire.

We may leave this mortal coil, but our WWs will live on forever.

[quote]The mind cannot perceive nothing. It’s going to manifest something to compensate for one’s physical demise. And thus new life.

New life comes from worms and bacteria feeding on your corpse, unless you get cremated. The mind itself is just your neurons firing, and those neurons will start rotting away the second you die. So it's not going to manifest anything post-death because there is no mind anymore at that point.

What happens to your voice when your vocal cords stop vibrating, OP?

Same thing happens to your mind when your brain's neurons stop firing.

Happy Easter!!!

No one knows. But what I do know is that I've been at many a death bed and the dying always speak of seeing and/or hearing dead loved ones. I can't explain that phenomena but it does occur.

Always r8?

Like Stephen Haking sais, the human body is an organic machine. Once it stops, it stops.

I had 2 seizures in a row last month. My son called an ambulance and I had a 3rd. For 45 seconds I stopped breathing and the next day they shocked my heart back into rhythm. The whole time all of this was happening Idon't remember anything at all. There was just nothing at all that I can remember. Nothing good or bad just not a thing. That really bothers me.

All I know is the two sides of the debate will never convince each other of anything. Personally, I believe energy keeps going. The physical body and functions end but the soul goes onto something or somewhere.

If you think about it even a little bit it makes no sense for consciousness to survive brain death. Don't worry about it. Everything that lives ends up in the same place so wherever we're going, we won't be alone.

R9 Well, not my father. When he was dying he told me emphatically that I'd get to see the Red Sox win The World Series several times and this was in 1993. I thought "fat chance" but they went on to win in 2004, 2007, 2013 and 2018.

[quote]There just can’t be nothingness.

Why not? The simplest explanation is usually the most likely.

[quote]r12 The physical body and functions end, but the soul goes on to something or somewhere.

How do you personally define "soul"?

I’m not looking forward to a sequel, remake or anything else. When it’s over it’s over, just been a really shitty life just one disappointment after another watching others get rewarded while I struggle just to get by. Bitter? Absolutely and no entry to the pearly gates will make up for it.

[Quote]Everything that lives ends up in the same place so wherever we're going, we won't be alone.

Pointless bitchery for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever!

[quote]r17 When it’s over it’s over, just been a really shitty life, just one disappointment after another ... no entry to the pearly gates will make up for it.

Awww, I'm sorry : (

Have you seen THE RAPTURE? Its theme is, "God exists, and is beneath our contempt." Mimi Rogers is surprisingly good in it.

SPOILER:

At the end, an angel says to her, "Just tell God you love him, and he'll forgive you!" And the heroine says, "Who forgives God?"

Nothing. We’re dead. That’s what I hope because otherwise I’m going straight to hell.

Reincarnation maybe? Your cells decompose, turn to organic matter but that organic matter will form something else, maybe a tree or a butterfly or a different human. What is everlasting is the love you give and the kindness you show, it goes on forever

I like to think that if you are good, you get to take revenge on bad people. Imagine how many ice picks you could shove into Pam Bondi’s cunt in the afterlife.

You can go in deep with this guy OP. He answers your question.

Unfortunately I had to discount everything that the guy in the instagram video after he pronounced etc. as "Eksetara".

Why couldn't there be just nothingness. Religion was formed by people to control people and heaven was invented to comfort grieving families. Thats it’s

There doesn’t need to be a religious. R25, just believe it yourself.

We continue in another form. O

Nothingness after we die is a given, and it should serve as a reminder to make the most of the little time we have, OP / R2

I will be reborn as I was once Cleopatra or some other great figure in history that so many of us claim to have been all at the same time. - Dee Plorable

As I am part Native American, we believe elders never die as long as you keep talking about them. More than just the memory of a person, recalling who they were, what they did, how they behaved and passing it down to other generations keeps them alive in a sort of spiritual way.

We have the same sentiment in The Netherlands, R30.

"As long as you talk about someone, they're not truly dead."

Hillary Clinton will never die then.

You suck, Donald.

You get sent to a farm upstate. There's lots of space there to run free.

If there's an afterlife, do people with dementia, intellectual disabilities, mental illness, and personality disorders have theiir brains upgraded to full working condition, or do they have to spend eternity like that? And if they can be fixed after death, why not during their lives? Why make them suffer?

No one is going to talk about you very long after you're dead. Just think of the frequency with which you discuss your grandparents or great-great-grandparents.

[quote] There just can’t be nothingness.

Why not? Maybe that is the reason humans feared death in the first place. The ego doesn't like the prospect of the end of existence.

R37, exactly and plug in the human nature to abhor uncertainty, add an alternate reality and VIOLA!

Religion.

For those who think life goes on after death, what do you imagine you will be doing? Working? Watching television? What is your conception of this post-mortem existence?

I like to ask Christians if there is shit in heaven.

Echo R1. Our molecules become one with nature and disperse into the atmosphere or water.

[quote]No one is going to talk about you very long after you're dead.

I beg to differ.

There’s no way to know, so why even bother thinking about it.

What if someone were married two or three times, and each spouse adored him. Is he multiplied in heaven so each partner gets one to cuddle? Or are all four souls housed in one heavenly house, and must become polygamous?

I don’t think I’d like that.

[italic]Hands off my husband’s dick!

Fucking hilarious, R42! Congratulations on having the best post on this thread so far.

The law of conservation of energy is that energy is neither created or destroyed. So our energy after death moves on to something or somewhere else. We don't know where, but we go on. We are made of star-stuff and of star-stuff we shall return. I believe we go back to the original energy, G*d.

r44, in the Mormon pantheon, only one goddess remains with Heavenly father in each planet. The wives are the ones sealed in temple ceremonies. The other chickie-pies go with their sealed husbands as well. But he can collect new wives.

Much too complicated. Ya die, ya dead, your energy is returned to the universe.

There is a belief that the brain isn’t the center of consciousness but just a receiver for an already existing conscious - that you physically exist inside your conscious and not the other way around. That continues on when the body dies. You see yourself die. It can be distressing and confusing, People do attend their own funerals and try to comfort loved ones. But as time goes on, the pull of this world and who you were in it fades away like a dream and you go on to join others and that “new” world feels more familiar than this life we know, because this one is 5 secs compared to the eternity of that one.

Oh and you can choose to come back. There are a group of people you pass through many lifetimes with.

What if you get cremated, R46?

R46 that energy goes on to something else, in cremation it expresses in the heat energy during that process. There is still organic matter remaining (ashes) that will eventually get reabsorbed once the container is gone.

Like a candle we burn our fuel then flicker out. Just like all the other life-forms did before us.

As an introvert, the nothingness doesn't bother me.

R43: Exactly. Atheists and believers alike are so stubborn and arrogant in their belief that they're right.

When our light flickers out, it’s game over.

We only reboot for another life when a new player picks us and takes up the controls.

I've had some supernatural experiences in my life that I cannot explain which have led me to believe there is something going on beyond the scope of standard waking human consciousness. I don't pretend to know what that exactly is, but the experiences have shaken me enough that I could never go back to believing that there isn't something beyond our mortal coils.

You sound deeply deluded R54.

[quote]I don't pretend to know what that exactly is, but the experiences have shaken me enough that I could never go back to believing that there isn't something beyond our mortal coils.

The existence of ghosts [bold]has never been proven.[/bold]

It also [bold]has never been disproven.[/bold]

The truth is, there are no definitive, scientifically proven answers about a global, cross-cultural phenomenon that’s been reported in some form for centuries. It’s strange, sure... but that’s where we are.

Like life after death, we just don’t know.

But hey… we’ll all find out someday but hopefully not too soon.

R56 agreed. People have had supernatural experiences since the beginning of time and it's been documented throughout history. I like to think of it as "future science", as in someday maybe we will have the answer as to what causes it. My point was that I believe there is more to human existence and the cosmos than we currently understand (and perhaps we are not meant to really know). I think it's narrow-minded to believe that the only things that exist in this universe are that which we can perceive with our senses. People like R55 can call me deluded all they want. I don't give a fuck. It seems like many DLers have been so hurt by religion that they throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to anything regarding theology or theories about the afterlife. I prefer to remain curious and conscious of the possibility that there are things beyond my scope of understanding.

I wouldn’t mind seeing my folks again and the relatives I never met and possibly meeting Judy Garland and Marilyn. I wouldn’t want to bump into Hitler or the guy from the killing fields. Hopefully those types would be isolated and or re-educated.

I’m with R17. Life struggle with few highlights-(thank God for baked goods and ice cream).Then humiliation of aging and lengthy agonizing death. I wish I had a hand gun in case it becomes too awful and I need to bow out.

I believe those who sincerely believe in God/Jesus/Heaven etc. will get there and those who don't-like me won’t have any after life but I just cant pretend to believe. I never fell for that spiritual stuff and God knows that I don’t believe in him or his little friends.

R44 You Win Best Reply-Congrats.

Because of R58, I have now willed into existence an afterlife universe in which exists a publication , where there could be a 'who wore it better' column featuring Hitler & Pol Pot.

Because. Of. You.

The universe is based and built on physics and there’s no room for an after life-sorry.

Human beings have a biological need to believe in things that aren’t true.

[quote] The existence of ghosts has never been proven.

[quote] It also has never been disproven.

One could say the same thing about Bigfoot, the yeti, and the Loch Ness Monster.

Death is just nature's way of telling you to slow down.

You get to fuck everyone you've always wanted to fuck for eternity. And there are snacks and beverages.

I hope Robert Mitchum is up there! He’s MY idea of heaven!

Believing in life after death can have nothing to do with religion or even spirituality, btw. There are so many things we know exist around us that we can’t see, I can’t imagine the number of things that we don’t know that are floating around are heads.

There are scientific things that point to this world as we know it being a fucking simulation anyway - a creation of something tests consciousness. No one can say anything definitively. Therefore you can just summarily discredit someone else’s beliefs.

R57, I'm in full support of your line of thinking. I should have addressed that to the person that called you deluded, I just didn't want to give them more attention. (Also I've seen my fair share of things too. I'm one of those, "time isn't linear" people.)

It's a weird thing I've noticed here over the years: anyone that says I believe in the supernatural or life after death inevitably will have a poster or two or three appear who get ridiculously angry that someone thinks differently than they do.

There's never any reason to get upset with someone over this topic because either way, no one has any definitive information.

My biggest problem with immortality and an after life is they say you have to work! AND no one ever needs to eat food again. What kind of "heaven" is that? - Fat Whore

I’ve “died” twice, once in an ER, once in the back of an ambulance. I’m typing in real time now, so obviously the EMTs and nurses did a good job. In the ER I floated around up by the ceiling watching them get my heart restarted for a while. I heard the noises and saw the tunnel and the lights supposedly leading to the afterlife, Jesus, or maybe Shirley MacLaine but didn’t get there - the paddles worked and my heart started up again.

I’ve read it’s just neurons misfiring at the end but if so, at least the early stages of death seemed pretty lifelike to me.

[quote]I wish I had a hand gun in case it becomes too awful and I need to bow out.

That's easily done, R59, especially if you live in the US. I have a hand gun for many reasons, but "bowing out" is one of them. I actually find the fact that I can easily take my own life at any time comforting, especially the way things are now.

If you do buy one, make sure you learn how to use it safely and store it properly.

R72 they say it’s just neurons firing but that isn’t the case - especially if you’re seeing things in real time outside of your body as many people do in near death experiences. A brain shutting down is not recorded as what happens.

There is an excellent Netflix show - Surviving Death, that goes into detail about near death experiences.

[Quote] It also has never been disproven.

“I cannot prove the negative” is an old axiom in the law.

I can’t prove there ISN’T a tea kettle in orbit around Pluto. So does that mean there might be one?

[quote]“I cannot prove the negative” is an old axiom in the law. I can’t prove there ISN’T a tea kettle in orbit around Pluto. So does that mean there might be one?

Sure, “you can’t prove a negative.” That’s been said a million times and yeah, it holds up in courtrooms and Reddit threads. But here’s the thing: we’re not talking about some random imaginary teapot doing laps around Pluto. We’re talking about something people have reported for centuries, across cultures, across the globe, way before there were message boards or TikTok trends to spread ideas.

That doesn’t prove ghosts exist. But it does mean we’re dealing with a long-running, deeply human experience and not just some made-up example used to win an argument.

If anything, ghosts are more like dark matter. We can’t see it, we don’t fully understand it, but there’s just… too much weird stuff to totally ignore.

So no, we don’t have proof. But brushing off all of human history like it’s the same thing as a teapot in a place we can't even reach? That’s a stretch even for a skeptic.

My father in law died all of a sudden. It was a surprise and tough on my husband and mother in law. It was a sad time. I talked to a medium about other things but he came through. She described him perfectly, his character persona. He wasn’t a man of many words and that’s how he came through. When I was finally telling my husband that I did this, the light started flashing on and off. What’s was that about?

^ btw it was an annoying motion detector light at the entrance to our apartment. I put tape over it to block it because it would come on if you farted. So it hadn’t worked for months since I did that. But as soon as we were talking about his dad and him coming through it started to flash on and off on its own.

[quote] How do you personally define "soul"?

I define it as your personality, and your personality is a product of chemicals, hormones, nerves.

We’re just organisms that work for a finite amount of time— like a Chinese made appliance. If you get lucky, you get one that works for a fairly long time; if not, it’s short-lived and the model is no longer made so you can’t replace it.

R72 there are countless accounts of people who have had near-death experiences similar to yours. A lot of people have described being able to see a birds-eye view of the room and the people in it, including their own body, despite being clinically dead in the moment. Neurons misfiring would not allow one to perceive/see their own body from above. Many times people who go through this will also recount doctors, family members, etc., including where they were positioned in the room and even what was being said. It is a strange phenomenon but it is not uncommon.

It was odd, R80, to say the least. In my mind (or not) at the time I saw myself floating, lying on my back up by the ceiling but I could also see the crash cart and the team working on me in the room below without so much as turning my head. And it was them: the resident became my allergist. They weren’t stand-ins or generic docs from my imagination or memory. She told me (after resynching my heart) that I’d told her I’d seen God but I have no memory of that; neither saying it nor seeing Him. You’d like to think you’d remember meeting God so I question that part, but everything else is still as plain as day in my memory and it’ll be 45 years ago this summer.

I remember being freaked out because I was so WTF just happened to me? I made my bf hide all the knives at home that night.

[quote] I actually find the fact that I can easily take my own life at any time comforting,

For you maybe, not for the guy who has to clean up the bloody mess and brains splattered all over the walls. Or the manager or friend doing a life check on you.

Do us a favor, leave a note then go off to the woods if you are going to do that. Don't traumatize other people who were not part of your comfort plan.

It does no good to think about it because there's no answer.

[quote]R81 I’d told her I’d seen God but I have no memory of that; neither saying it nor seeing Him. You’d like to think you’d remember meeting God so I question that part

Haha! Yeah… who’d think God was “forgettable,” or nondescript??

[italic]“He’s much more unassuming than you’d expect.”

R82. Are you under the impression that dealing with natural deaths is like tending a flower garden?

Personally I think it's like turning off the lights, flicking a light switch. Nada. Nothing. I coded during a medical procedure about 20 years ago. I remember it being black. Not dark. Black. I also remember feeling a coldness I had never experienced before. Right through me. In my bones. a real coldness. Then, as I was regaining consciousness, I heard the medical team yelling at one another. They were trying to stabilize me, which, obviously they did. Then just suddenly the blackness was gone and there was blinding light... but it wasn't supernatural light, it was the fucking operating room! LOL! But I would have to say it is that particular sensation of cold, and the complete and total blackness I was aware of and will always remember.

[quote] I mady my bf hide all the knives at home that night

MARY!!!!

[quote]not for the guy who has to clean up the bloody mess and brains splattered all over the walls

Damn, R82 -- you don't get out much, do you?

Here in Deplorable Haven, FL, these mfing Trumpers [italic]love[italic] that shit! This is the place people kill small animals just to watch them die. I have often seen dead turtles and snakes in the middle of the road that guys in trucks have run over [italic]on purpose[/italic]. Doubtless they dispatch some people here, too. I've often mused that if someone had been killed and then buried out in the Ocala National Forest, no one would ever find the body.

The thing that cracks me up is, as much as these assholes love killing shit, they will never, ever, ever go into the military and fight people who can defend themselves. They're too scared. A defenseless animal, sure. And I am absolutely certain that they would be giggling and poking each other as they scraped my brains off the wall.

Believe what you want. And if you want to see how the other half lives, come out and see me sometime!

^^^sorry

R86 here. I will say, that as it relates to loved ones who have died, I feel t heir presence and it seems like they do stick around for a bit trying to get used to being dead ? Some people refer to it as the "afterglow."

No R88, you sound very naive and idealistic about how clean and simple it is. I have witnessed the aftermath of suicide TWICE! Once with pills where she shit and pissed the bed and not discovered for several days and a man who did it with a nail gun. The nail gun left blood splatters all over the wall and of course a pool of blood around his dead body in the garage. Thankfully I did not have to clean it up.

My point is that it's traumatize for some low wage working, cleaning person or employee to discover someone's dead body like that when THAT'S NOT THEIR JOB! Not everyone is a gun toting redneck MAGAt, even in Florida Blowing your brains out with a gun is not as clean as you think. Sometimes it goes through the head, blows out the scull and brains out the back leaves blood and brain splattered all over the walls, floors and ceiling.

Wow, R91 -- do you have some kind of fetish? Just curious.

Do you think people who die naturally don't lie undiscovered for days as well?

I had one relative asphyxiate herself in a car. Another died in her 90s from angiopathy which led to ulcers on her legs for weeks until she died of blood poisoning. I ask you to guess which death was physically more unsettling

I'm.nky disagreeing suicide can sometimes be done in a gruesome and inconsiderate way. But it's also not true that natural death isn't sometimes gruesome and burdensome to family and strangers. You've just got an axe to grind.

[quote]For you maybe, not for the guy who has to clean up the bloody mess and brains splattered all over the walls. Or the manager or friend doing a life check on you.

"Taking your own life. Interesting expression. Taking it from who? Once it's over, it's not you who'll miss it. Your own death is something that happens to everybody else. Your life is not your own. Keep your hands off it."

[quote] leading to the afterlife, Jesus, or maybe Shirley MacLaine

Hey, I'm still fine and sending my love from Santa Fe!