Costume designer Jean-Pierre Dorléac: Lucille and Vivian were NOT close!!

He’s such a BITCH, I love it.

Yeah...no. Lucille's last visit with Viv would seem to belie that.

I believe it. I think Ball felt much closer to Vance than the other way around.

*

I'm so glad that 36 years after Lucy's death, Jean-Pierre found it in his heart to 'break his silence'. On behalf of the millions of people who loved Lucy, we are grateful to JP.

Nolan Miller would’ve never!

I believe it. Whenever you saw them do interviews together in later years, Lucy would get all gushy about Viv who always looked a bit like "uh, huh, bitch..." but played along.

Dorleac’s a notorious liar. He got nailed on one of his lies big time two or three years ago and got raked over the coals on twitter.

Who is this queen?

I read some of his tweets. He says Lynda Carter is awful, Glynis Johns was a cunt, and Shelley Winters smelled like shit!

I kinda believe that last one.

I never heard anyone speak an unkind word about Lynda Carter until now. I think R8 may be right. This eldergay sounds like a huge liar and attention whore.

More cunting from this French queen, s'il vu plaît.

R8, what was the lie?

He has nothing but bad things to say about Elizabeth Taylor and Audrey Hepburn. He also loathed Donald Sutherland, apparently.

I love Viv as we all do but she did have some pretty severe mental health issues herself.

That doesn't mean Lucy wasn't awful but I think Viv had issues with personal relationships in general.

r15 don't we all? Vivian seemed much more palatable than Lucille, however. Warmer, more supportive, more generous.

Is she a DLer?

Too bad Vivian's ghost didn't talk Lucille out of Life with Lucy.

He’s 82 so that Twitter photo has to be at least 40 years old…

I can’t vouch for the others but I’ve dealt with Lynda Carter and she is a wonderful lady. Sounds like this guy is quite the little bitch. Maybe she wouldn’t let him ride in her invisible airplane.

R13 s'il vu plaît

Mon cher.

r19 maybe he's 82 but passes for 40 ...

[quote]maybe he's 82 but passes for 40 ...

Yes, he probably goes to the same plastic surgeon as Adam Glassman from "Oprah's View Your Deal" on 'The View'. Glassman's in his late 60s (according to many sources) but tries to look like he's in hi s early 40s.

Was Ball close to anyone, really?

According to that foul mouthed Lee Tannen, he was her closest confidante.

Lucy was cheap and Vivian didn't really want the role. When the show was a hit, she reluctantly paid her more money and appreciated her costar.

With Scott Bakula.

When Lucy desperately needed Viv for the later Lucy series of course the relationship changed.

Hard to imagine just how hard boiled Lucy really was in real life.

[quote]and Shelley Winters smelled like shit!

That's a lie!

Vance was far closer to her sisters than she ever was with Ball

[quote]Hard to imagine just how hard boiled Lucy really was in real life.

Remember - she was a successful business woman who was equal with Desi in building her empire (one of the first women to do so back then). She had to be hard-boiled to keep it going successfully, and to be taken so seriously in a male dominated culture. She did not have it as easy as her male counterparts.

Ball was often unkind to Vance. Lucie Arnaz once said that Vance was one of the few people in Ball's life who would stand up to her. Vance had a long history -- beginning with her mother -- of managing abusive personalities, and that worked to her advantage.

Lucy was a hard hearted Hannah! The vamp of Savannah, GA!

Desilu

Bitter, party of one.

She's so messy!

PS Isn't "addicted drug addict" redundant?

Classic DL thread!

I love this bitch!

r37: I'm glad somebody pointed out what a cokehead the now deified Robin Williams was.

[quote]What’s sad about this is Robin Williams was hiding the truth that he was an addicted drug addict.

"I'm an addicted addict!"

He's full of shit. Lucille and Vivian were on a talk show together once where they reminisced about times they were hanging at each other's houses. Once Vivian was over at Lucille's and they were putting henna on each other's hair. They may not have been bosom buddies who spoke to each other on a daily basis, but they were certainly personal friends on and off the set. And as all personal friends they had their spats.

I think Phil Ober interfered a lot in their friendship during the I Love Lucy years. He was extremely controlling. Hairdresser Irma Kusley said he would become enraged when she socialized with anyone without his permission.

How did he know Vivian very well? He came to the US in 1977 when Vivian had already retired, was living in CT, and was sick with cancer.

I smell BS.

I would say that there were a handful of years after Viv left that they were frosty to each other. But there's no question that Lucy loved Vivian and that they were pals. Watch them on Dinah Shore together. Or look at the Password where Viv surprises Lucy. You can't fake it to that extent.

NOW, go look at joint talk show appearances by Mary Tyler Moore and Valerie Harper. It's very clear they would pretend to be closer than they actually were. There's a certain iciness between them that can't thaw no matter how much they try to fake it.

Lucy adored Viv, particularly after she was gone ("Don't it always seem to go...")

I think Lucy regretted allowing her to leave The Lucy Show the way she did. If Here's Lucy had been picked up for a 6th season, Vivian was going to return as a regular.

I think anyone who was friends with Lucy likely had a complex relationship with her. She wasn't an easy person. And while I'm sure Viv had her moments of (likely justified) cattiness, I suspect she loved Lucy as much as Lucy loved her.

Lucille was cheap.

Nobody much liked Lucille so she had to embellish.

She always wanted to look like a chrysanthemum...

Enjoy this passage from Vance's biography:

During the week of rehearsals, Vivian again complained of a persistent pain in her leg and hip. Lucy finally convinced Vivian to go see her doctor and take some tests. The lab notified her that it would take them a few days before the results came in. [As it turned out, her cancer had metastasized to her bones.]

On the night of filming Lucy Calls the President, there were several delays. Vivian didn't feel up to par and when the cast did not break for dinner, she voiced her anger. Paige Mathews Peterson, along with John Dodds, attended the taping that night to help Vivian. "We were sitting in the audience and Viv's mouth started quivering. John said, 'God, she looks really tired, she looks like she's not doing well.' We couldn't figure out whether she had a twitch or what was going on. When they came to a break, Lucy screamed, 'Goddamn it Viv, stop doing that face!' And Viv walked over to us and we suddenly realized that she had Bell's palsy and that her face was falling apart. John said, 'Oh God, I'm taking you to a hospital.' Viv said, 'I'm going to finish the show.' And that woman finished the show and by the end of it her face was completely paralyzed. We quickly packed her things and left for Belvedere. Lucy never called her, never checked in on her, never focused in on her. It was stunning.

I told you I was hardcore

If that's true r51 then Lucy really was a monster. And a disloyal monster too.

r53 This was from the book Desilu:

According to one observer: "Lucy was so incredibly mean to everyone at dress rehearsal. There wasn't a full audience, just a few people. She yelled at everyone -- the wardrobe lady, the makeup man, everyone. She kept screaming at Gary Morton, 'Shut up!' whenever he tried to say something. Then she would tell him to go away, yelling at him the whole while. Once, Vivian Vance came over to her. She didn't look well. It was after her stroke, you could see she was very ill and obviously on some type of medication. Holding up two dresses, she asked Lucy nicely, 'Which one do you think I should wear?' Lucy looked at her with complete disgust and yelled, 'What difference does it make? You look like a cow in anything you wear!' Vivian ran away in tears. A few days later, in front of an audience, Lucy was a different person, all sweetness and light and 'My dear Viv.'"

r52 I told you she was hardcore!

She treated Vance like shit, let's be real.

At one point Lucy tried having Joan Blondell as a replacement for Viv.

At the first rehearsal, Lucy was a bitch to Blondell regarding a line reading. Blondell told her to go fuck herself and walked out.

R57. She did the same thing to Didi Conn during the filming of "Grease"!

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT ME, damn it!!!!!!! Not Didi Conn, Joan Blondell, Lucille Ball or even Vivian fucking Vance.

R59. I'd rather the thread were about Sassafrassa and Lucy chained up with dog leashes.

[quote]Blondell told her to go fuck herself and walked out.

[quote]She did the same thing to Didi Conn during the filming of "Grease"!

Go on...

I was aware of both of those sad stories, but I still think Lucy and Vivian were friends. Fact is, Lucy was NOT at her best when she was working. Especially if the material was weak, and Lucy Phones the President wasn't exactly her finest hour.

R54, there was also a story from that great Desilu book about Lucy and Mary Wicks traveling by car a couple of hours to go visit Vivian in the hospital when she was sick.

They spent hours with Viv, laughing and telling stories. Eventually the nurse came in, and told Lucy and Mary that visiting hours were over, and they had to go.

"Ohhh," said Vivian, "I wish you could stay!" According to Mary Wicks, Lucy sobbed the entire car ride home.

It was the last time Lucy ever saw Vivian.

R62 here. It's been many years since I read that book, and I got done details wrong. Here's the real story:

On a summer day in August 1979, Lucille Ball came to Belvedere, California, to bid farewell to her friend and beloved costar Vivian Vance.

The two women had created comedy magic in the legendary '50s sitcom I Love Lucy, with Ball as Lucy Ricardo and Vance playing her sidekick Ethel Mertz. But now, two decades later, Vance was dying of bone cancer, and Ball had come to say goodbye.

"You could hear them laughing, and towards the end there was a lot of sobbing," says Paige Peterson, who'd grown close to Vance after the actress rented her mother's home in Belvedere. "It was an amazing thing to witness. The love of these two women."

Peterson shared the story of the stars' final meeting with PEOPLE while discussing her new book, Growing Up Belvedere-Tiburon, which tells the history of the beautiful town located in Marin County, California.

On that day in 1979, Peterson remembers, "We had brought Viv down and she was lying on the couch in the living room. They ate lunch and they talked and talked. Viv knew she was dying." (The breast cancer she had been diagnosed with in 1973 had metastasized into bone cancer.)

Peterson, who was in an adjacent room in case Vance needed her, remembers seeing Ball as she left. "The pain on her face shook me to my core. She was in tears. She couldn't speak."

Viv died a few days later.

This version leaves out Mary Wicks, but I know she was there.

Lucy's mother passed only weeks prior to taping "Lucy Meets the President". In that Desilu book it talks about how she was still grieving, and this special hit her particularly hard because it would be the first taping her mother wouldn't be in the audience for.

[quote][R37]: I'm glad somebody pointed out what a cokehead the now deified Robin Williams was.

Oh, please! Anyone with eyes could see that Robin Williams was flying on something each time he was on stage. And he partied with John Belushi the night before he died, hello? I'd reply "No shit, Sherlock!" to Dorleac, but he blocked me.

The "truth" about that never-was is that he's a nasty, thin-skinned old fag who can dish it out but can't take it.

[quote]I can’t vouch for the others but I’ve dealt with Lynda Carter and she is a wonderful lady. Sounds like this guy is quite the little bitch. Maybe she wouldn’t let him ride in her invisible airplane.

Dorleac is a defender of kid-diddler Stephen Collins, so his "insider" opinion on who's "awful" and a "cunt" is for shit.

What does he think of Vicki Lawrence? That'll settle this shit once and for all

[quote]I'm glad somebody pointed out what a cokehead the now deified Robin Williams was.

Didn't he acknowledge this himself in the 80s?

If Lucy were alive today, she would be 100% MAGA, do not doubt it for a second

"The only ting red about Lucy is her Maga hat, and tat's real."

Yes, everyone knew he was one of the biggest cokeheads in the business but after his death all his drug problems have been erased in favor of making him a martyr of illness and depression.

[quote]Yes, everyone knew he was one of the biggest cokeheads in the business but after his death all his drug problems have been erased in favor of making him a martyr of illness and depression.

Who are you talking about here?

Desi Arnaz? Jean-Pierre Dorléac? Robin Williams? John Dodds?

[Quote]Who are you talking about here? Desi Arnaz? Jean-Pierre Dorléac? Robin Williams? John Dodds?

OJ Simpson, Rose.

OJ Simpson. Wow. I didn't realize he was even a part of this conversation!

It seemed like the poster was talking about Robin Williams, but the posts immediately before this were about Desi. And earlier they'd been talking about John Dodds.

So, I was just trying to get clarity here since the person was not specified.

But wow to learn it was OJ Simpson! Interesting how he just slipped into this conversation without anyone realizing it. Just like he did to Nicole on her apartment on Bundy Drive back in June 1994.

[quote]Yes, everyone knew he was one of the biggest cokeheads in the business but after his death all his drug problems have been erased in favor of making him a martyr of illness and depression.

[quote]Who are you talking about here?

[quote]Desi Arnaz? Jean-Pierre Dorléac? Robin Williams? John Dodds?

Little Ricky.

R75. No. They're talking about Mrs. DeVries, from across the street.

Mrs. Trumbull was a tweaker.

Jean-Pierre, your thread has run its course.

She's the gift who keeps on giving.

R79. Jean-Pierre, darling. You are so out of touch. You best believe that George will be dropping that Dove bar every chance he gets.

Now he’s cunting on Angela Lansbury.

He's such a pussy. He waits until they die and then 35 years later tells the "truth." When are his cutting remarkes about Marie Dressler scheduled to hit?

Do tell, r81

On DL icon Olivia de Havilland:

Meanest bitch to come down the pike. Not at all the butter-wouldn’t-melt-in-her-mouth, or the timid sweeter than fresh honey lady, she played on screen. She was a BITCH to everyone. I met her seven times & ended up going the other way when I saw her so I didn’t have to face her.

On Angela Lansbury:

The closest she came in real life to being like herself was the plotting evil bitch she played in “The Manchurian Candidate.” She was infamous on stage and theater to have any parts that came across better than she was, cut out of the scene or ending up on the cutting room floor.

On Daniel Day Lewis:

You left out one important word…overacted!, Greatest “overacted”performance ever!!! He’s a hack of the 1st degree. Always has been, and will always be. Thank god he gave up films.

On our dear Rue:

Rue was NO WALK in the park…she whined a lot, was always putting on weight so that her costumes had to be let out, and was very devious, like putting lotion to clean her nails into her eyes so she didn’t have to do a scene. And she always lied to me about her sizes.

At least he hates Trump!

r87 makes me laugh for some reason

He's such a petty queen

Does he actually like anyone?

He lost me at Angela Lansbury.

But I have to admit it's pretty funny especially when this mean old thing is being serious.

She likes Miss Vance, r90, which leads me to believe she's a DLer

He also liked Joan Fontaine.

Viv and Joan are pretty much the only stars he hasn’t trashed.

Did he have Viv's husband or something?

Jean-Pierre Dorleac is a prophet and a truth-teller, one of the most honest and authentic men who has ever lived.

I think enough people have established that off the set, Lucille and Vivian were really close, and on the set, there was a lot of tension and fighting. On the set, Lucy was VERY bossy, demanding, and rude, in part because she had to be "the big boss." In the boss role, she was a perfectionist, and since nobody's perfect, it drove her mad. I think Vivian probably realized that she was very different on the set vs. off the set, and that's part of why she was able to stand up to Lucy when most others were too intimidated.

R85 let me tell you something. I worked with her. I wrote something for her that got messed up. She would've had EVERY RIGHT to be ANNOYED- she wasn't. She rolled with it, made changes on the fly, and was nice as could be. I ADORE her. This guy's full of it. She was a wonderful, regal human being. Gracious as they come.

R97 = Sondheim

[quote]Did he actually like anyone?

He said of Dean Stockwell & his hunkier brother Guy: “You couldn’t find two nicer guys in the whole world.”

Dean Stockwell always pinged to me.

Joan Fontaine was a cunt.