Bea Arthur's guest appearance on The Golden Palace

She looked great. I hated Dorothy’s spiky hair in the last half of Season 7.

Though why she took offense to Rose swatting her after all the times she got Rose with a newspaper…

I don’t like what Marc Cherry did with the characters. Bea was right to put a stop to this.

She looks good here.

It exhausts you watching three old ladies trying to run a hotel.

[quote]I don’t like what Marc Cherry did with the characters.

He didn't get the characters at all. He just padded them with stereotypes. Funny on the surface, but very one-dimensional writing.

In retrospect, the show should have ended with the three getting married and Sophia going back to live with Max Weinstock, who inherited a small fortune. That way, everybody would have been happy.

I liked the spinoff at the time, but now rewatching it, it has some very morose episodes, and the way they finished off Miles and Stan's storylines was inexcusable.

The “duh!” At 16:00 is particularly painful.

Rue's hair is unfortunate.

Awful. Bea has only been in it for a minute and is already floundering.

The Miles ending was terrible.

The Stan episode

Whenever I see Bea and Betty in the same scene together, now all I can think of is the scene from the last episode of The White Lotus Season 1 where Murray Bartlett's character takes a crap into that guys suitcase...

Bea really was the glue that held the original show together.

It ended on such a bizarre note too

Arthur is soaking up all that applause when she enters.

The character of the kid (whom they cut after a handful of episodes) was such a bad choice. What were they thinking?

Betty was certainly behind the preachy greyhound episode.

[quote]The character of the kid (whom they cut after a handful of episodes) was such a bad choice. What were they thinking?

Did they learn NOTHING from Coco?

The show did nothing for that actor's career either, r16. He doesn't even have a Wikipedia page!

I'd forgotten George Burns made a guest appearance.

I never understood the "hey, let's put these old broads in a hotel!" concept. It didn't work when Bea was Amanda, it certainly wasn't going to work again.

Its funny when something just works ...Laurel & Hardy, The Spice Girls, Friends....its a magic where one plus one equals 5. I just think The GG worked cos you didnt have to rely on Sophia, just bring her on, raise the comedy and then get her off. Just like the Fonz. Henry Winkler was offered a spinoff and wisely declined, saying, i can only enter a room and say, Eyyyyy so many times. But The Golden Palace was a bad premise, bad supporting characters and characters we already loved behaving, well, out of character. Im glad they got an extra few bob and I believe Rue needed the money. I can watch GG on repeat and i quote it on a daily basis; but G Palace has an odd somber mood. And Stan and Miles endings are just so wrong. Miles and Rose needed to stay together.

Why did Rue need the money? She must have made bank on GG.

Dorothy/Bea was needed to anchor the show. You have to have a strong central character/characters with the power to center things on. Bea Arthur had that power. Betty White and Rue McClanahan were brilliant comedic actresses but they didn't have that power. And, Betty fans, don't come at me, because it's true...she never successfully STARRED in her own sitcom. (No...that VERY early show she did on local Los Angeles tv doesn't count). She (and Rue) played the zany characters who supported the stronger central Dorothy character; yes, Dorothy had poor self esteem but she was still the pillar of strength in that house. Rose was a nitwit and Blanche was selfish and silly. Golden Palace tried to force those weaker characters into weirdly shared power roles. It made no sense.

And, if you look at most successful sitcoms, they have similar formulas. Sometimes the main character isn't even the funniest one but the stable one with strong charisma (the Mary Tyler Moore Show). And, once in a great while, you just get the perfectly balanced/cast ensemble (Friends) where they all equally balance each other out.

Estelle's cue card reading became sadly very evident.

[quote]r19 = I never understood the "hey, let's put these old broads in a hotel!" concept.

It worked for *me*.

R22- I'm with you- TEAM Dorothy/Beatrice/Maude.

It's not about power, r22, it's about formula. You surround the straight man with zanies to react to.

R26 Except, Dorothy/Bea isn't the 'straight man'. She's equally funny if not funnier (at times) than the others. Comedy wise, they're all superb.

And, the MTM example is true to a degree. Though that show really worked because you had different levels of "funny". Mary and Murray were quite dry while Lou and Rhoda were in the middle and Ted and Phyllis and Sue Anne were ridiculous.

As for Murphy Brown, they were really all kind of equal. And, to be honest, I'd really say "equally awful" because that show was mildly amusing when it first aired but it hasn't aged well. None of it is very funny. And, it's ridiculous that Candace Bergen won all those Emmys.

I wanted to point out that the reverse is also true when it comes to sitcoms. If you put a very strong comedic actor as the center of a show but center them with nothing, it doesn't work. Bea Arthur is a commanding presence but if she's the only thing worth watching like in that dreadful "Amanda's By The Sea" then it falls apart. It was just Amanda being a loud bitch for 30 minutes with no one funny to bounce off her.

R22 Rue did a job of making Blanche the anchor in the Golden Palace. She had much better acting chops than Betty.

It's crazy this show exists. I know the Golden Girls. Maybe I should let this near beer sequel in.

The Christmas episode was especially cringe-worthy.

It also lacked the banter between Sophia and Dorothy from the original show. They played well off each other.

Blanche demanding Dorothy spill every detail on the sex she was having with Lucas was disturbing. Lucas is her uncle!

R33 Blanche was from the south, she probably dated her uncle, or at least fucked him.

r34 = the ghost of Dorothy Zbornak

Rue wanted the original show to continue with a new roommate. She struggled to play Blanche as a businesswoman compared to her previous characterisation.

Worse, R34. She was from Oklahoma!

With as much as Betty knew about tv and as smart as she was it’s crazy that she thought this show had more life in it. Season 7 is painful!

In her Television Academy interview she said something frank for once; “I liked Roseanne but she hung around too long at the fair.” Season 8 of Roseanne was notorious and this interview was filmed in the late 90s/2000.

R38 Are you the "Season 7 of GG is Awful!" Troll? If so, I wish you'd shut up about that because Season 7 has some terrific episodes.

Also, compared to Golden Palace, Season 7 of GG is like a year of Chekhov.

Season 7 was better than Season 6. I actually think Season 5 was the worst season, with a few exceptions, such as "Triple Play"

R40 I agree! Season 5 has waaaaaaay too many "very special episodes".

Was Season Five when Rose caught AIDS, or was Season Five when Rose became a meth addict, or was Season Five when Dorothy developed a costly gambling addiction?

R42 yes.

Episodes 1 and 2: Dorothy has Chronic Fatigue...for two weeks

Episode 4: Rose faces Age Discrimination

Episode 7: Suicidal old ladies

Episode 12: the Xmas Soup Kitchen episode

Episode 13: Teen pregnancy

Episode 17: Blanche gets a pacemaker and is scared to have sex

Episode 18: Blanche has to deal with her husband's bastard

Episode 19: Rose might have AIDS

Episode 24: Dorothy has a gambling addiction

Seasons 1-5 are the best.

The last two seasons have their moments, but they started running on fumes. Once Terry Hughes and the original writers left, it wasn't as good.

R43. Sit down, Jake!

R45 I had to look that up because I never rewatch the "Very Special" episodes.

And, I forgot that poor Bibi died so young.

Fuck cancer.

Murphy Brown is very dated to watch now because of all the topical humor. They relied a lot on current events. I've seen a few reruns and even though I was around back then I couldn't remember specific things they were making fun of.

[quote]I never understood the "hey, let's put these old broads in a hotel!" concept. It didn't work when Bea was Amanda, it certainly wasn't going to work again.

It was a ridiculous concept. Three older women (one VERY old) all of a sudden buying a hotel together and running it? So stupid.

R47 Murphy Brown also suffers from the fact that Candice Bergen is a terrible actress. And, the show itself is really bad. It just tried so hard to be beloved.

R36 I remember the rumor was they were considering Debbie Reynolds to replace Bea's character. That's why she did that one episode playing 'Truby' towards the end of the show. But apparently, the feedback from viewers wasn't favorable, and Reynolds herself had said she didn't think she'd join the show as the cast gave her a rather 'cold' welcome.

I had also read, years after, that actress Rita Moreno was considered to join the cast to replace Bea. She originally made a guest appearance a few seasons before, in a 'back door' episode to spin-off into her own series as a married woman (it never happened). Moreno's character was going to come back to the show as 'recently separated' from the husband we had seen in her prior appearance. I guess that was a way to get rid of her (she goes back to her husband) had her character not worked out ? Anyhow, they dropped that idea, too.

Thank you, R49. Finally, SOMEONE understands.

The Rita Moreno episode was horrible, the worst of the series.

Lee Grant and Diana Muldaur were considered. Lee Grant knew Susan Harris quite well, as Susan developed Faye for Lee. Lee's daughter Dinah Manoff also was on Empty Nest at the time.

Dena Dietrich was also considered. The two-parter with Gloria was them testing how she would do as a replacement. She knew Estelle well from their days of working in NYC together and got along great with her but didn't gel with the others.

Why did Dietrich play Gloria in 1991, instead of the original actress Doris Belack from 1985 ? Belack was much better.

R54, there was apparently a rule for guest roles that only Michael and Blanche’s sister Virginia could be played twice by the same actor.

At least semi-regulars stayed the same.

Rebecca stayed consistent, right?

I also agree with the poster that season 5 had the worst episodes. Maybe not in terms of writing, but in terms of watchability as they are depressing as hell rewatching in reruns years later.

R56 the prunes seemed to do the trick.

The Xmas soup kitchen episode was pretty bad. I can't remember the name of the actor who played the priest, but he guest starred on every tv show in that era.

R56 No.

Shawn Schepps played fat, downtrodden Rebecca in Season 3 and came back later as skinny but neurotic Rebecca played by actress Debra Engle who played the role three times on GG and once on Golden Palace.

Oh, how could I forget Fat Rebecca?

[quote] [R38] Are you the "Season 7 of GG is Awful!" Troll? If so, I wish you'd shut up about that because Season 7 has some terrific episodes.

Season 7 was an excrement sandwich washed down with a warm glass of piss. Horrible writing, the characters became caricatures of themselves, except for Dorothy, who went from strong, sharp character with an active social life to a borderline agoraphobic afraid of her own shadow. This was also when Bea exhibited the energy of a corpse as she lazily shuffled through scenes and could barely hold her head up at times. She was more concerned with not looking ugly than being funny. All those years of ugly jokes really did a number on her.

Aside from her character assassination, the rule appeared to be take the core character traits of each lady and crank it up to 15, even if it didn’t make sense.

Blanche became more vapid and self-absorbed, at times a near narcissist. Rose got dumber. Sophia went from salty old lady to miserable, cruel cunt. She certainly earned mother of the year when she arranged for Stan to fuck her other daughter in Dorothy’s bed. What a bitch! This was of course after she pretended to channel Rose’s dead husband to scam her out of money. This type of outrageous and piss-poor writing killed that character.

This was also the season where they smeared so much Vaseline on the camera lenses it looks like it was filmed though a sheet of gauze. You want to grab a bottle of Windex to spray in the screen until you realize it was meant to look like it was recorded in a steamy shower. The color palette is also dour and dull compared to the first three seasons, which were the sterling standard for this series.

And while I don’t know if I’m said troll who vexes you so, but I won’t shut up because Season 7 of “The Golden Girls” has all the appeal of an outhouse toilet seat in North Dakota in January.

Garbage.

R62 yeah...you're the nutty deranged troll I was thinking of.

R63 Yes, anyone with an opinion that contradicts yours is a “deranged troll.”

Grow up, little girl. You sound like a whiny, insufferable bitch who makes everyone’s life miserable.

Girls! GIRLS!

R64 Honey...I'm not the one who savagely attacks everyone who disagrees with them.

I mean...just look at your posts.

They don't do you any favors.

You'd tragically win every "Miss Deranged Loony Troll" pageant you could enter.

You might be the Grand Poobah of Deranged Loony Trolls...

Chuy's joke about losing 140 lbs of ugly fat being his wife is an oldie but still funny.

But his come-on to Dorothy in her first seen - Do you move as good as you look? - reads as off. After all those years of calling Dorothy unattractive why deny her this compliment??

I think the original show could’ve run another few seasons if they’d found the right replacement for Arthur. I believe Doris Roberts was considered (she’d been in the original “Miami Nice” sketch that inspired the show). Yes, the show would’ve been different without Arthur, but a good new face might’ve livened things up a little.

... in her first scene...

Funny when Sophia mistakes an extra for Dorothy and hugs her.

R63, that’s not my post. I do agree with the majority of what he says though.

I’m glad you enjoy season 7. It just doesn’t work for me.

[quote]. But his come-on to Dorothy in her first seen

Oh, dear

Dorothy: Ma, this tub must weight 30 pounds.

Sophia: That's exactly what the doctor said when he delivered you.

R54 I thought Dena Dietrich was much more believable as a sister to Dorothy. There seemed to be more a family resemblance.

R74 I agree. I thought Doris Belack was too "la di da" to be believable as a Petrillo. Dietrich was funnier and was believable as Dorothy's sister.

And, it really was weird of them to make them all Italian and then cast pretty much all Jewish actors to play the various Petrillos.

Gloria was supposed to be a wealthy jetsetter. Belack fit the character perfectly.

The second Gloria was as tall as Bea, and it ruined the joke that Dorothy was the only tall one in the family.

Plus the whole hurricane two parter was fucking stupid.

I don't remember Gloria ever being referred to as a "jetsetter". She married well and lived a nice life in...Beverly Hills? And, Belack did have a classy air to her but...I don't know if she screamed jetsetter. More like "Nice Jewish Lady with a few bucks and some taste".

I will agree that Dena Dietrich being as tall as Dorothy did ruin that gag but she was still more believable as a Petrillo than Belack. The Petrillos were tacky Sicilian Brooklynites.

I wouldn't call Dorothy tacky.

R75- No it wasn't.

I'm rewatching the later seasons and Season 7 did have some gems.

Dorothy: Lucas and I did a little experimenting...For starters, I left the lights on.

Sophia. Ladies and gentlemen - Madonna!

Blanche: You can't come in here! This house has been quarantined! We all have ... quick, Rose, give me a deadly disease.

Rose: Oh, I'm sorry, Blanche, I don't have a deadly disease!

Blanche: Well get one.

Dorothy: I thought about Ma every day.

Blanche: I think about Nick Nolte every day. That doesn't give me the right to kidnap him, does it?

I’ve just recently bought a new firestick that’s been fixed up with tons of channels, all of the Netflix stuff, films, box sets etc. There is one list that is old comedy, sitcoms etc that are shown 24/7 and The Gokden Girls is one of them They show every episode in order non stop. Has anybody else come across this. They also have Frasier, Cheers and loads of others.

R84 = Your grandmother.

GLORIA WAS A WHORE!

R86. You'd know, Dearie.

Rose to Chuy: It's your life. If you want to throw it away marrying some cheap tart in a stupor, who am I to object?

Chuy: You're a good friend.