Anybody else here doesn't love Paris? If so, why?

[quote]I recently found out it was totally renovated by Haussmann

Well yes. Very famously so. And very extensively, if not totally an ambitious new plan. But with some hardly insignificant elements of the medieval and pre-19thC city left intact.

Hausmann's scheme of grids (sort of) and diagonals and long straight runs of streets and broad boulevards influenced Washington DC, Buenos Aires, and parts of Madrid, London, Vienna and many more cities.

But the city's prettyness strikes you as forced and inauthentic?

What do you expect? Cities of any age are always a mix of order and disruption. Maybe you prefer glass-skinned skyscrapers scrapping against Medieval half-timbered guild houses, next to a 1950s tile-fronted health center, next to a Victorian Gothic school on a Roman plaza with a 16thC town hall? Those cities exist, but they are no more authentic or inauthentic than Paris.

Some people find the "sameness" of date and style and size and finish details of Hausmannian Paris monotonous and boring. Fine. But they're not fake and inauthentic, nor their "pretty ness" a sham, a confection of deceit like a Disneyland castle.

If Paris doesn't click for you, fine. You're not the first nor the last. But the city is not "inauthentic."

Plus that big redesign happened roughly 175 years ago. Seems unfair to call it inauthentic like it's some Dubai office park.

Too many Africans and Muslims there.

It’s no longer the city of romance.

Yep, I've never had a desire to go to the Western side of Paris, like the Arc de Triomphe and beyond. It looks too uniform.

it’s a dreamily beautiful city.

Parisian men don’t clean under the foreskin as vigorously as Americans. I know it’s an acquired taste, but hard pass.

mansard roofs need to make a comeback.

R1, I prefer Rome and Venice. And when I said "forced and unauthentic", I was describing how Paris feels to me, not how it may or may not be.

I like the museums, Pere Lachaise, and some of the architecture. The Opera Garnier is incredible. But as a whole, it doesn't speak to me and never lived up to the hype. France has a ton of charming cities and towns, but Paris - meh. Bordeaux is more my style.

paris, london, amsterdam, rome, barcelona, venice, brussels, vienna, prague

Paris wasn’t as magical as I thought it would be. However, it wasn’t because of the architecture — it was the cleanliness. There was so much trash on the streets I was appalled.

Mon Dieu, the dogshit everywhere! Somehow Emily and Amelie never step in it.

Many arrondissements are just awful: especially 9-13.

There are a multitude of stinking, diseased clochards on the streets and in the Metro.

I'm just getting warmed up.

So with you R12...dog shit. In summer the city stinks. Parisians are very parochial as well Yawn.

Most cities stink in the summer. I don't think Paris has more dog shit than NYC. Maybe they've learned to pick up after their dogs.

This thread is a variation on "Diana: weak voice."

Same kind of trolling discourse.

Picasso - Style over substance.

Lisbon – Tiles, tourists, and displacement.

Prague – Gingerbread gothic without tension.

Paris – Uniform façades layered in wedding cake fuss.

Thanks R8/OP. I too prefer Rome and Venice and quite a few other Italian cities to Paris.

Paris is for me undeniably beautiful, interesting, always an enjoyable visit. I have some good friends who are Parisians, most of whom live elsewhere. It's a very special city in having so many and so varied a range of public spaces and exhibitions and events. New centers and spaces are always popping up. The idea of the streets themselves as things of beauty, framing vistas is a very Parisian thing in my mind, and that's very Hausmannian.

Personally I prefer more chaotic cities with different centuries of history visible on every block, buildings built from or atop older buildings and the dual sense of continuity and reinvention that emerges. Paris us big and expansive, its vistas looking afar. Rome, by contrast, has streets in all directions, some straight, some curved, and the vistas are close, the streets punctuated by a plaza every block or two, each with its own order and character. Big parts of Paris are not that; they're not so obviously layered or varied, it's true. On that maybe we agree.

Paris feels plenty authentic to me, it's just that I like it for short visits and less, ultimately, than many other cities.

The test for me is always: Do I want to live here? I can love Paris for what it is, but I don't want to live there. There are other cities, though, some great, some small, that do always stir the desire to live there.

Don't get me started on French cuisine: sauced formality with no surprise.

le français: lyrical detachment passed off as charm. Refinement with the soul boiled out.

More lovable French cities: Strasbourg, Nancy, Lyon, Aix-en-Provence, Avignon, Bordeaux. Just to name a few.

All of the RIFF RAFF is sequestered in the suburban slums- away from the tourists and away from PRETTY Paris.

[quote] its prettiness has always struck me as forced an unauthentic.

Paris?

That’s un-possible!

Curious, OP, to hear your take on Lisbon and whether it feels inauthentic to you as well.

Philadelphia is prettier than Paris.

[quote] Anybody else here doesn't love Paris? If so, why?

It’s a long story.

Versailles: gilded glories... and grubby Gobelins

Poughkeepsie over Padua

Captivating city... let your guard down and enjoy yourself OP.

Le monde: Vive la belle France!

vieilles tanties de vol-au-dessus-stan: BO! Uncut dick cheese! Rude!

The DC street grid was laid out long before he redid Paris. R1

INAUTHENTIC, OP.

FFS.

Well done, R24.

No it’s not. r24 is wrong.

Rick and Ilsa always had Paris.

Paris is "unauthentic". There's no part of this that isn't funny lol.

I long for Columbus. I'm tired of Paris. The world bores me.

I love visiting Paris because there's history everywhere, but I can't imagine actually living in Paris. I visited during a down period and it was still very crowded & congested.

I visited 3 weeks after the Brussels bombing, and tourism was down, so it was great for me. I stayed in the 17th, and could definitely see living there. I loved seeing all the preserved churches and magnificent buildings there. Now Vienna, while beautiful, seemed more disneyfied to me.

[quote]Paris wasn’t as magical as I thought it would be. However, it wasn’t because of the architecture — it was the cleanliness. There was so much trash on the streets I was appalled.

R11 I had the same impression - beautiful architecture, but absolutely filthy, with gypsies begging outside the stations amongst the garbage. I was just passing through so didnt get to see a lot more of the city though.

Not inauthentic to me at all. I absolutely loved it, it has effortless class and elegance. I thought I would be dissapointed when I arrived because it's so hyped, but it surpassed my expectations.

Paris is fine, OP; it sends its love.

Twendy twavelers twend to tawk of London, Pawis (grrrr), Rome, New Yawk.

[quote] Hausmann's scheme ... influenced Washington DC

Ahem!

Humid, hot summers and cold, gray, damp winters. Parisians who can afford to get the hell out then.

"Overtourism" and the pernicious effects of shows like "Emily in Paris" on people's lemming-like behavior (i.e., "Locks of Love").

Insane prices for even the worst accommodation (purchased, rented).

What in the MARY is this thread.

Paris Makes Me Horny!

WAIT! What the fuck? Hausmann did this? And we're just finding out now?

Can't comment on Lisbon, R22 - haven't been. But back to Paris, R18's "refinement with the soul boiled out" is spot-on for me. I feel the same way about the world-famous beauty of French women and, with few exceptions, French fashion. These things, too, feel cerebral and put-on, rather than intrinsic and organic like they do in Italy. On the other hand, Paris has the craziest dog-breed mixes I've ever seen, so I forgive the dog shit.

Although there is a sameness to Paris's rooflines, not too surprising considering that large swaths of the city were constructed in the 1860s and 1870s, with many specifications for uniformity of line and appearance. there are many differences up close that repay attention. My first trip to Paris was pretty magical. I traveled by train from Italy and arrived at 8:45 pm in the evening. In those days, there was an office in the main train stations where a multilingual agent could make a hotel reservation for you. That office closed at 9. I hastened to it and the girl who manned it took one look at me without asking me any questionsand began dialing what turned out to be a decidedly budget pension. After I got the reservation I asked how many francs it would cost. When she told me (I think it was 48 francs or something like that) I realized it was $11/night. I took the metro to the stop she directed me to and then found the place. It was cute and quaint, in an area that I would describe as working class and multi-cultural. When I started climbing to my room, in which every bend of the stairs led to a slightly dingier floor, I realized I was on the top floor. A little leery about what I might find, I flung open the door. It was small, but clean enough and there was a sink in the room, which was a bonus. No bathroom of course - that was down the hall. I flung open the shutters, and there I was, on the garret level of Paris, looking across miles of roof-tops of about the same height. Magical!

The bathroom down the hall dispelled some of that magic, when I finally checked it out and realized that that hole in the floor was the toilet, with a sort of flush mechanism that demanded great skill and dexterity. Still, I was in my mid-20s at the time, and up for adventure!

r47 the first time I went to Paris I stayed in an attic room too, but my building was a floor taller than the others so I had a great view of the Eiffel tower with its spotlight. And there was a big football match going on so groups of men would sing "olay olay olay" at the bar down below. I was recently searching for hotel rooms and I came across this place that looks like it hasn't changed since the 60s. You get not only a sink but a bidet in your room. Feels like something from a crime movie. I stayed at a fleabag hotel like this once called The Tiquetonne. It had a curved staircase with faux marble walls, a shared toilet, and bizarre carpeting with the NY Met Opera logo printed all over it.

I used to prefer London. But now all major European cities are just a real pain in the ass.

Paris est belle mais Roma est éternelle.

[quote]Parisian men don’t clean under the foreskin as vigorously as Americans. I know it’s an acquired taste, but hard pass.

Thankfully, most American men are circumcised!

[quote]I used to prefer London. But now all major European cities are just a real pain in the ass.

Any reason for your Weltschmerz, R49? Irritable bowel syndrome? Ennui?

I don’t understand the Parisians!

I've heard all my life about how American tourists annoy the crap out of Parisians so I've never wanted to go there. And I never got the romance thing. It's like New York City. It's just so important culturally and historically, especially as a refuge for people from the provinces who want to make art, that it's cool just for that reason. (Of course only artists who've made it big can afford it anymore.)

You never wanted to go to Paris because you thought that you would annoy the Parisians?

r55, yep. If I had business there or was visiting friends (my preferred way to travel) that would be different. I hate being a tourist.

Paris is beautiful but Rome is jaw-droppingly beautiful.

R54 Are you serious about this? You've never traveled because why?

R58 thinks that 18th century boulevards simply broke free to the surface in 1250 and no buildings were ever affected.

Still gagging at the depth of "its prettiness has always struck me as forced an unauthentic."

Very little of the magnificence of Paris and environs comes from "prettiness," Miss Disney.

R59 I lived in the 16th while studying architecture for six months you stupid pretentious cunt. You have no idea what you're talking about.

R59 I would like to hear more about Paris from someone who's never been there.

Lived in Paris 30 years ago - I've been back a few times, but I feel like I've squeezed everything I wanted out of that city and to return just seems like a waste of time and money when I can see new things.

For people who've only visited for a week - I think there's a lot more to do and see on return trips to dive deeper into the culture and experience.

I loved Paris - still do - but doubt I will ever return when there's a whole world available.

What I hate are people who've visited once or twice and haven't been to a lot of other destinations and makes "I just ADORE Paris" their personality. Unfortunately you see it on House Hunters all the time. Usually women in their 20s, 30s and 40s who have this dream state of being sophisticated and elegant - while they're living in a 200sq ft former maid's chamber on the top floor of a 6th floor walk-up.

Once you live there, life is life - commuting, shopping, working - just like any other city. Obviously the city was purposefully built for beauty - but you're not sitting there in awe of your surroundings every day when you're truly living there.

If you stand outside the Hôtel du Louvre you can pick up wifi.

R62 I hear you. I lived and studied in Paris. When I was young. I suppose I would enjoy Paris again as a tourist, or with a task - job? project? But I'm in my 60s. I would like to live and work in a great French colonial city rather than Paris. I'd like love to teach a year in an Algerian university but every time I have asked my dean over the past decade, he laughs. Abidjan calls me as well. I want NEW and different and can only manager in French or English

I don’t like the French but I’ve never been to Paris.

[quote]Once you live there, life is life - commuting, shopping, working - just like any other city.

I think life is different in different places, R62. Even your list of three major components of life strikes me as very American, very work-centric. From this chart, the French spend twice the time eating and drinking as do Americans. The French spend more time socializing, more time at "other leisure", twice as much time at "personal care", 25% more time with friends. Americans, on the other hand, spend 48% more time at work, and it's work and commuting (which is not detailed separately on the chart) that become the big fat center of the American day and sense of priority.

Ask an American what he did on a Tuesday and you would likely get a very different description from someone from France, Spain, Italy, Greece -- even Belgium or Finland. Different in the details, of course, but different in the importance placed on activities. Work, commuting, and a little shopping wouldn't likely be the emphasized points.

[quote]Once you live there, life is life - commuting, shopping, working - just like any other city.

My daily life in Italy was so, so much different than my daily life in the US.

American movies have always had an overly romantic view of Paris. Paris is lovely to visit. It feels big. But the coldness of the people And all the smoking let it down. Madrid is my new Paris. It feels like the underdog to Barcelona so it tries much harder.

[quote]Madrid is my new Paris. It feels like the underdog to Barcelona so it tries much harder.

Not much competition at all. In part because the Spanish are not especially completive. At all. And least of all about chamber of commerce and tourism board sorts of distinctions. Madrid and Barcelona are very different places and while people have their preferences, you will hear citizens of either city easily listing attributes of the other.

The cities are so fundamentally different that they are seen in separate contexts. Madrid doesn't try hard to please anyone but Madrileños. Catalans are likewise proud enough of Barcelona not to try to cater to the tastes of strangers.

If Madrid is an underdog in anything it's in it's appeal to tourists. That's changing with actions in Barcelona against tourist masification, even as Madrid is garnering the travel media attention that Barcelona is now shunning to some extent. There are 5 or 6 big cities that take turns being the darling of the the travel media. At the moment it's Madrid - and everyone knows that will change next year.

Both are fantastic cities, each with a very different architecture, physical character, history, and sensibility. You can spend a week in Madrid and see maybe the best art museum in the world and not run out of world class museums. You can spend a week there shopping at small independent shops that echo the very specific tastes of their owners. If anything, Madrid is less about ticking off sights and more about setting your own agenda based on your interests.

Both are great cities to visit, and both to their credit are even better places to live. But they're so different that there is no competition.

Coming from New York, I didn’t find the people cold at all. In fact, I found most everyone working in any sort of service role, from fast food to shopping to fine dining, a thousand times more pleasant than what we usually get in NYC in 2025.

Last time I was in Rome (2013), there was hardly a wall in the city that wasn't covered in graffiti, so I'm not going to say it's "jaw-droppingly beautiful." It could be, of course, if they caned the offenders in public.

I was wanted to go to Paris, but then I saw an episode of Beverly Hillbillies where they went and I got intimidated. So I didn't.

[quote]Last time I was in Rome (2013), there was hardly a wall in the city that wasn't covered in graffiti, so I'm not going to say it's "jaw-droppingly beautiful." It could be, of course, if they caned the offenders in public.

You are correct. In that era the amount of graffiti was appalling. Romeand Florence were a mess with it. Their super lefty mayors were idiots and did nothing about graffiti, begging, and all sorts of quality of life issues.

There was a major crackdown. In the center of those cities, the graffiti is gone.

I despise this new "graffiti" trend.

I hate Paris. The one time I was there, Mireille Mathieu hit me in the head with a fondue pot.

Jonathan and Darlene Edwards gave us a beautiful memory of the Paris that is now fading.............

What treacle at R76. A 1950s American musical comedy duo interprets a shitty Jerome Kern song remembers Paris as having taxi horns and trees and not much else.

But maybe about right for more than a few DLers who have a memory of an imagined Paris they've never visited, tainted by 20 year old warnings of skyscrapers of dog shit.