THEATRE GOSSIP #582: The "Another No-Go at the Nederlander? Edition

The last thread.

[quote]From the previous thread: "Roma Torre pans Angels in America"

[quote]Who?

Didn't Roma Torre star in "Touched by an Angel"?

Also from the previous thread:

[quote]Imagine, [R593]--missing a "Company" reference! I guess we all can't be a big musical theatre fag like you!

R594 was apparently unaware that being a 'big musical theatre fag' is the prerequisite for being on this thread in the first place.

Learning every Stephen Sondheim lyric ever is Course 101 for being on here, and its compulsory essay is on Follies.

If you don't know and accept that: begone while you still have your sanity.

"Begone while you still have your sanity!"

That's from "Passion," right?

I saw OLD FRIENDS in London and was surprised at what a joyous entertainment it was. And was also impressed by the range of Sondheim's work. He really was our Shakespeare.

I think Sondheim would be the first to roll his yes at that designation.

Sondheim was an asshole. Yeah, I said it.

Idina out at REDWOOD tonight.

Old news, r8.

Is Redwood an open-end run or will it turn into one when the reviews are published?

Sorry, I meant will it turn into a limited run once the reviews are out.

Not in this thread, you fetid cunt (R8)

I'm sure Sondheim is a well-loved genius, but back when I was a gayling I saw a Side by Side by Sondheim and was bored out of my mind, and I expect Old Friends will deliver more of the same.

R13 Old Friends is actually good and the cast is top rate!

R10 Redwood seems destined to be very much a closed and soon to be ended run.

Anytime there’s no melody, they’re called a genius…go!

Last night, I saw the Donmar production of "Natasha, Pierre....." It was spectacular. the best I have seen and I have seen many. Go see it, one week left.

I wanna hear more about the guy who said he was the subject of a rumor about getting head from Schwartz. Was it C-list??

Is he the one that pulled off the SS hairpiece during the BJ?

Per NJPac website

"Due to illness, the Patti LuPone: A Life in Notes performance is not happening today.

We apologize for the inconvenience. We hope to identify a new date for the performance and will keep you informed on next steps."

Was Marsha Mason not available to play Patti tonight?

Down, down the Witches' Road.

Well, can we just say no one is more our Shakespeare than Stephen Sondheim?

Sondheim can't touch Shakespeare in talent, so stop trying to make him something he is not.

R24= Lynn Aherns

So is Flaherty, r25.

Fans singing "Not Getting Married Today" to Jonathan and his London cast mate Daisy Maywood.

R19- never happened

R15- it’ll run at least 9 months on Idina’s name alone.

Redwood sounds like Red wouldn't

FOLLIES!

Is that going to be a thing now, adding Young Phyllis to Lucy & Jessie?

Loveland...as done by an opera company

R32. Not a bad idea.

[quote]r34 = [R32]. Not a bad idea.

NO way, Blythe.

Those singing girl fans of Jonathan Bailey are pretty cringe.

Were they from a local bachelorette party?

Behind the scenes...

There appears to be a dearth of hot chorus boys in Australia.

R38, it didn't used to be that way. Find hotter chorus boys.

R36: That's Theatre Kid Energy. Save it for the stage, ladies, you're embarrassing on the street, and I say this as a former theatre kid.

When I saw the recent Into The Woods tour in SF, the packed lobby was nearly throbbing with Theatre Kid Energy. Lots of squealing and 'I'm so excited I may explode like a glitter cannon' vibes. I was almost dreading the actual performance. But once the show started they calmed down and paid attention to the show (and applauded enthusiastically). So you want those kids on your stage or in your audience, just not in groups in the open air wailing the money notes.

Has anyone here actually seen Redwood?

Or are we trashing it just because??

Sunset over the Rockies...

If one has to SEE a show before one can comment upon it, the posting numbers on DL are going to go way down.

The actual Theater Kids are good audience members because they've done theater and respect it. The problem ones are the Fan Gurlz/Boyz who DIDN'T do theater but "OMG! I LOVE IT AND I NEED TO EXPRESS MY LOVE FOR IT WITH HORRIBLE AUDIENCE BEHAVIOUR!!!!"

Veanne was a wonderful Amy.

R43 Our president DJT agrees with you completely.

I saw REDWOOD in LaJolla. I wanted to chop down the fucking tree...

Speaking of LaJolla, when did Stokes pull out of the Lincoln musical?

How desperate is the Kennedy Center crew to get another show on Broadway. All the reviews point out Schmigadoon! is just the tv show on stage, and less interesting....

Schmigazzzzz

Get another show on Broadway? What was the last one, r49??

SPAMALOT, r 51. Transferred from KC.

FOLLIES transferred

MAME didn't transfer, although that was the hope. That show has aged like milk.

[quote]That show has aged like milk.

Indeed.

They needed Billy Porter in the title role.

[quote]FOLLIES transferred

Not every transfer is a success.........

[quote]I'm sure Sondheim is a well-loved genius, but back when I was a gayling I saw a Side by Side by Sondheim and was bored out of my mind, and I expect Old Friends will deliver more of the same.

IMHO, every Sondheim revue has been bad, though some were certainly worse than others. (Two of the worst were PUTTING IT TOGETHER and SONDHEIM ON SONDHEIM.)

One major exception was A BED AND A CHAIR, but that wasn't a revue in the traditional sense. And I'm not counting those all-star concerts of his songs, several of which were very good or excellent.

I loved Side by Side by Sondheim. Bitchy Ned Sherrin was hilarious and I was lucky enough to see it with Nancy Dussault.

I remember seeing Side by Side during a NYC snowstorm. We weren't even sure if there'd be a show that night because of the crazy weather but there was indeed, with only half the house filled. It seemed to bring out the best in the performers, making for a wonderfully intimate experience. Georgia Brown was phenomenal.

Old Friends was at the London 1/2 ticket booth and because there was nothing else that interested us, we decided to try it. It was the favorite of our 9 shows that week, a total delight, and felt like watching a one night only benefit. Loved it. I hope it's that good in NYC.

Saw Side by Side in New York when Hermione Gingold was the narrator. Wonderful. There was a line toward the nd of the show when she says, "Stephen Sondheim wrote some 300 songs, but of course we can't sing them all." Someone in the audience shouted, "We'll stay!!" Gingold looked down and in thaat delicious voice, said, "But. I. Won't."

Listening to opening night of Side by Side by Sondheim at the Library of Congress will always stick with me (if you're ever in DC, contact the recorded sound librarian and make an appointment, they have thousands of audio bootlegs). It really seems like everyone in the Music Box was having the time of their life that night.

"Old Friends" has its North American premiere this Friday at the Ahmanson. Bernadette Peters and Lea Salonga are the headliners.

"Gypsy" has extended through the end of August. Oh, NOW it's a limited run?

Michael Park looking good these days.

Are Andrew Rannells and NPH circling a City Of Angels revival?

I know she's showing her age these days, but the fact that Bernadette has been singing Sondheim for, literally, entirety of my life from birth to middle age, and she's about to do it again this season...? I don't know... it kinda warms my cold, dead heart.

R59 did Nancy enjoy the show?

[quote]"Gypsy" has extended through the end of August. Oh, NOW it's a limited run?

Typical PR bullshit. Announce a show with no mention that it's a limited run, but then send out a press release trumpeting that the non-limited run has been "extended,. It's just a blatantly obvious marketing ploy.

P.S. I was just saying to a friend last night that I'm kind of amazed Audra' hasn't missed any performance since that first week, but if she starts to do so again, I predict box office will plummet.

Doesn't every show release blocks of tickets into new dates? Even for Wicked, you can only but through November 2025 right now, even though it will obviously be running past November 2025. I don't see how it's necessarily a marketing ploy, rather than managing inventory.

R67 the voice isn’t what it used to be but I saw her at Carnegie Hall in October and it was a good time had by all. She played to the gays and the gays were there for her!

[quote]Doesn't every show release blocks of tickets into new dates? Even for Wicked, you can only but through November 2025 right now, even though it will obviously be running past November 2025. I don't see how it's necessarily a marketing ploy, rather than managing inventory.

Because the normal way to phrase that in a press release is "New block of tickets for WICKED released, through November 2025." That's clear, rather than issuing a press release stating that an open-ended run of a show has been "extended."

BERNIE!

Close parens.

Not sure of all the love for City of Angels. It's a B- score at best, although that does put it head and shoulders above SUFFS, NOTEBOOK, OUTSIDERS, DEATH BECOMES HER . . . well, you get the point.

Did Steve Martin have Bernadette blacklisted in Hollywood when they broke up? Because there's no other reason why her film career ended so abruptly. She could have been as big as Bette Midler and Madeline Kahn.

R76 I think it was the one-two punch of starring in two huge bombs in one year that killed her movie career...Pennies From Heaven at least got some good reviews but Heartbeeps was a monumental trainwreck.

And I think Annie was considered an underperformer.

No one's holding the under performance of Annie against Bernie. She has a small supporting role...really, it's not much more than a cameo. Lily is not a great role.

I see your Heartbeeps-Pennies From Heaven and I raise you Slaves of New York-Pink Cadillac.

Which were many years after the Heartbeeps/Pennies from Heaven combo. The original point being that Steve Martin quashed Bernie's movie career after they broke up when no such thing happened. She made some bombs; went back to the theater; made some more films; went back to theater. Wash then rinse and repeat!

She's very funny in Impromptu, which is an underrated movie.

I remember seeing Bernadette in a TV movie with Mary Tyler Moore. She played a dying woman and MTM was the therapist helping her deal with the inevitable. Both were excellent and the film was a real tearjerker.

I remember seeing Bernadette Peters on The Carol Burnett show......the TV Guide said she would be singing "Poor Butterfly" which I loved in the movie Thoroughly Modern Millie.

And then I watched and saw and her heard her.

NOPE NOPE NOPE......one trick pony.....horrible voice.....and ugly.

Hated her ever since. And that's a LONG time ago.

Bernie has quite a sweet clit.

R83 That's a long time to be so bitter and full of hatred but you are quite old so we'll let it pass.

Poor Carol Haney and her toe.

[quote]She played to the gays and the gays were there for her!

Bernie's been playing to the gays for over 50 years. . Mack & Mabel closed early in November '74, and Bernadette suddenly had a wide-open schedule. She put together her first cabaret show at Studio One in West Hollywood. She did one routine as Anita Bryant doing an orange juice commercial.

I would’ve fucked Steve Martin raw in the late ‘70s. He was so fucking sexy.

Was Carol Haney the first famous woman to wear her hair that way?

I first saw her as the warden's horny secretary in the original The Longest Yard with Burt Reynolds at the peak of his sexiness.

And been a fan ever since lol.

Bernadette Peters? I thought I had cast her in 20th Century!

R87 somebody said once that she used to do a lot of different numbers in her club act before she became set on Sondheim. In the 80s, she did “I Dreamed a Dream” in Atlantic City according to this person.

Link for I Dreamed a Dream note

[quote]Was Carol Haney the first famous woman to wear her hair that way?

No she wasn't.

Louise Brooks and Carol Haney had entirely different hairstyles, r94.

Bern '65

Louise, short and mannish

Carol Haney, not the same, but also short and mannish

[quote]Louise, short and boyish

Fixed it for you, r97.

[quote]but also short and gamine

Fixed it for you, r98.

Leslie

It's a dancer's 'do. It's that or a bun.

Carol Haney in an atypical long 'do.

That's a wig, r103.

If you think a pixie cut and a bob are the same haircut/style, we're coming to take away your Gay Card.

Thanks R103 I had never seen that picture......didn't know that Carol and Warren did a play together.....wow!

I wonder if Carol complained about Shirl to Warren.

Supposedly they're going to reveal Betty Gilpin's replacement in Oh, Mary! any day now.

How long is Gilpin scheduled for Oh Mary?

A replacement already?

I always felt like Gilpin was brought in to keep the show open until a bigger name like Melissa McCarthy was free to step in. And you know Cole will go back to the show during awards season.

I always felt like Gilpin was brought in to keep the show open until a bigger name like Marsha Mason was free to step in.

The play that Carol Haney and Warren Beatty did was William Inge's A Loss of Roses, which then became the movie "The Stripper" with Joanne Woodward playing Haney's part.

I'm available.

Betty's doing Oh, Mary! through March 16.

[quote]I always felt like Gilpin was brought in to keep the show open until a bigger name like Marsha Mason was free to step in.

Weirdly, I initially read this as "a bigger name like Marlyn Mason."

Have they chopped down Idina's tree yet?

[quote]Have they chopped down Idina's tree yet?

My tree will not be just one in a row.

Could be wrong but I think either Warren Beatty or Carol Haney left that production before it opened.

Warren Beatty and Annette Bening in

Oh Mary!

12 weeks only!

Richard Beymer is no Warren Beatty.

Helen Lawson and Idina Menzel in "The Cherry Orchard."

They're both listed as performing opening night, r119. It had a hell of a design team:

Scenic Design by Boris Aronson; Costume Design by Lucinda Ballard; Lighting Design by Abe Feder; Assistant to Boris Aronson Lisa Jalowetz; Assistant to Boris Aronson: Ming Cho Lee; Assistant Designer to Lucinda Ballard: Florence Klotz

"A Loss of Roses" flopped on Broadway, but both Beatty and Haney played though the short run. Shirley Booth left the production before it opened and Betty Field took over her role as Beatty's mom. The movie flopped too.

Ah, yes, it was Shirley Booth who left the production. Thank you, r124.

If nothing else, The Stripper gave us that famous theme song by David Rose (Judy Garland's first husband)..

I’m sick of Sondheim reviews. Anyone see the Jerry Herman review, Jerry’s Girls?

How about a Jules Stein review? a Rodgers and Hart or Hammerstein review? A Lloyd Webber review? Kander and Ebb? Lerner and Loewe?

The Melbourne FOLLIES was fabulous!

Just wish legendary Geraldine Tuner could have played Carlotta. She broke her femur during rehearsals and was replaced.

What if MacLaine was still understudying Haney and had to go on opposite Beatty?

Did the Palais Theatre contribute to the ambience, Billy Boy?

r126, there are so many "oh dears" in your post! Go back and rewrite, please.

R126 I will say out of all of them, Old Friends is the best one. There is no storyline and no duds!

Tituss Burgess is the next Mary.

[quote]How about a Jules Stein review?

A revue about an ophtalmologist who founded MCA would be rather dull.

I love Tituss Burgess. That should be fun.

Titus Burgess will be the next Broadway Mary.

Oops. Didn't see the Mary post above. Sorry.

That’s actually good casting

Burgess could be a riot.... I might even go a third time.

[quote]How about a Jules Stein review?

Who is he? Tell of about his oeuvre!!!

David Rose sat on a tack. David rose.

DEI!!!

Tituss!

Billy porter must be FUMING

John Proctor is the Villain announces its full cast.

We're just waiting on Good Night, and Good Luck. My gut is telling me that George Clooney has the chutzpah to do it as a one-man show.

R143 he is currently in London as the Emcee in Cabaret

I think Billy has his eyes on bigger prizes, such as replacing Audra in Gypsy or Nicole in Sunset Boulevard.

Speaking of Old Friends... BERNIE!

AND... my fat fingers slipped and I posted before adding the link.

When I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Good Night, and Good Luck won't be a one-man show.

Who's the hot bald number in the front?

I think Titus as Mary Todd is fucking brilliant comedy casting. For one thing Mary Todd will be a foot taller than Abe.

For Good Luck and Good Night.

I saw the movie. What would anyone want to see the same thing on stage?

Clark Gregg has a bigg dickk.

Because George Clooney wants a Tony, R153.

r154

how do we know this? I need proof

Ed Sullivan's Broadway '73

[quote] I’m sick of Sondheim reviews. Anyone see the Jerry Herman review, Jerry’s Girls? How about a Jules Stein review? a Rodgers and Hart or Hammerstein review? A Lloyd Webber review? Kander and Ebb? Lerner and Loewe?

Why not a Stephen Schwartz revue and this was before "Wicked".

Understudies on at Urinetown tonite.

Well, that should piss people off.

R69 Audra may not have missed a performance of Gypsy, but several shows were canceled due to cast illness (said to be Covid).

How’s Keala Settle’s American accent in Urinetown? A few years ago she took to using a culturally appropriated English accent even though she grew up in fucking Hawaii. Yeah, yeah, I know her father’s English but that’s no excuse.

She wasn’t very funny, regardless of accent.

Wondering if Encores pulls off the casting coup of the decade by hiring two movie musical superstars to defy gravity in Wonderful Town.

R164. I'm available!

[quote]Audra may not have missed a performance of Gypsy, but several shows were canceled due to cast illness (said to be Covid).

R161, I'm not aware of any performances of GYPSY being canceled since that first week, for any reason. Did I somehow miss that big news, or are you incorrect?

WONDERFUL TOWN starring Amy Adams and AnnE Hathaway!!

Which one is the plain sister?

Cromer is having a good season.

NYT reporting Tony Roberts has died at 85.

"Variety" on the death of Tony Roberts.

Kindly step to the rear...

Will the lights be dimmed for Tony Roberts?

First Linda Lavin and now, Tony. Has anyone checked on Michelle Lee?

Trump is now moving to take over the Kennedy Center. Presumably, Laura Osnes will be an honoree next year.

Someone I know said they walked out of Urinetown at intermission. Anyone else see it?

Tony Roberts and DL fave Susan Stockard in.....TPOS!!!!

You'll wonder "why oh why, Ohio?" when you see Cynthia Errivo & Ariana Grande in Wonderful Town!

[quote]Wondering if Encores pulls off the casting coup of the decade by hiring two movie musical superstars to defy gravity in Wonderful Town.

I guess they could age me up to play Eileen.

Well, the guy who's directing it did the Drag Race like CATS, so maybe Jinkx and Bianca.

I saw Tony Roberts in TPOS, ARSENIC AND OLD LACE and THE TALE OF THE ALLERGIST'S. Love him in Woody Allen's films. Sad he's gone.

R166 Friends of mine arrived at the show, I think a Saturday matinee, and were told it was cancelled due to cast illness. I talked to them the next day. Two old theatre queen friends of mine.

Tony Roberts was "SICK OVER LIZA" and walked out of Victor/Victoria after a week of her craziness...

[quote]r173 = Will the lights be dimmed for Tony Roberts?

He *certainly* deserves it.

Back to Sondheim. Here's Jonathan Bailey in " Company"

Carol would have made a great Velma.

Thanks, R186! That was like watching Hot Honey Rag: the Origin Story.

I worked with Tony Roberts once. Super friendly with great stories.

Given what they were capable of, that piano number was kind of a letdown.

Such are the vagaries of theatre, I guess, that actors you wouldn't think twice about ever seeing naked sometimes unexpectedly do get naked, and then any time after that you see them in something else and think, "Oh, I've seen your cock." You can't say that about any other legit profession.

So as soon as I saw that picture at R150, I immediately recognized the short actor with the mustache second from Clooney's left from a play I saw downtown years ago. He looks a little different with the facial hair, but I always remember him because he has a very distinctive voice and look, and because he had this in-your-face nude scene.

But do I remember his name? Nope.

What

You might as well have written "I haven't had sex in 40 years," R190.

Actually, I have a husband, R192, but thanks for your concern.

Is Paul Gross in that cast photo with George Clooney? I don't see him.

No, he isn't, R194.

Carrie Underwood is IVANKA!, a new musical.

[quote]Given what they were capable of, that piano number was kind of a letdown.

Life is full of disappointments, isn't it, r189?

Is Wonderful Town considered a good show?

Encores did a production of it in 2000:

On May 4, The Encores! concert production of the Leonard Bernstein-Adolph Green-Betty Comden musical Wonderful Town opened at New York City's City Center to some of the best reviews the in-concert series has seen in some time, with particular praise being doled out for star Donna Murphy.

[quote]Is Wonderful Town considered a good show?

It certainly isn't a bad show, r198. But like Bells Are Ringing and Funny Girl, it's a star vehicle so tailored to its original star that it isn't going to fit another actor so perfectly.

I love this. And they both sound great.

Most of next week's airtime is plugging the SNL anniversary, Bridget Jones 4: Mad About the Boy, or Captain America: Brave New World. Nevertheless, The Tonight Show will have Betty Gilpin and Adam Lambert on Monday, The View will have Melissa Gilbert (off-Broadway's Still on Tuesday), and The Kelly Clarkson Show has Jennifer Simard on Wednesday.

Roz *owns* Ruth Sherwood. Ruth gave her her first nomination.

[quote]Actually, I have a husband, [R192], but thanks for your concern.

So, I surmise that, if you're married, what R192 wrote is true - you haven't had sex in 40 yrs. Wait a minute...never mind. That's only true of lesbians.

It’s odd they haven’t announced the cast yet for wonderful town! I’m off book and ready to go at a drop of a hat, so not sure what the hold up is gang!

Are short, nebbishy actors Clooney's type?

r205

R204. They're waiting for Joy Woods to decide if she wants to play Ruth or Eileen.

I would have asked for a refund.

Russell may own Ruth Sherwood, but many actresses have done well by it, Including Murphy and Brooke Shields. I saw Nanette Fabray years ago, and she was charming. And I would have given anything to see Carol Channing do it, which she did—I think—on the original national tour.

She did the last six months of the Broadway run, r209.

Was Brooke Shields better than Roz Russell and Donna Murphy?

As for Wonderful Town casting, both leads will be played by black actresses.

R212 I heard that as well!

Donn Murphy would now be perceived as having much more ownership of the role of Ruth in WONDERFUL TOWN if she didn't miss a tremendous number of performances during the Broadway run, reportedly due to vocal problems.

[quote]As for Wonderful Town casting, both leads will be played by black actresses.

And...? What's your point exactly?

Donna Murphy was just spectacular in the role—perfect comic timing.

Did Brook Shields do anything on Bway after that replacement run?

I believe she took a shit in front of the TKTS booth once or twice.

Brooke went into Addams Family after that. I THINK she did Chicago and Cabaret before WT. I have the WT cd with her vocals. She sounds just fine but I was lucky enough to see Donna Murphy and it's one of the greatest performances I've ever seen on stage.

Brooke did Sideshow on Broadway.

I'm the only sideshow on Broadway, bitch!

Side Show

Were you just 😱 by “cocks”?

[quote}And...? What's your point exactly?

I think the point was simply to note that the roles of both sisters in WONDERFUL TOWN will be played by Black actresses, which may well be the reason for Encores! reprising that show.

Did you really need to read racism into that comment, R215?

They have black sisters in Ohio.

Who said they didn't, R224?

Any more gossip on how Patti and Mia don't speak anymore?

[Quote] Brooke did Sideshow on Broadway.

No she didn’t

Very odd that I haven't seen any online tributes to Tony Roberts from former co stars. The Linda Lavin tributes started pouring in as she took her last breath. I can understand Liza not commenting but Julie? Betty Lynn? Cheyenne???????? LUCIE!!!!?????

Fuck you, Roz! I originated the role on Broadway!

Wow, great photo

I think it’s pretty obvious what happened with Mia and Patti.

The play got shit reviews and Patti got shit reviews…but Mia got love letters and a stronger hand during bows.

Then the Kecia Lewis thing happened and none of the producers publicly defended Patti (when they should have handled the whole fiasco to begin with.)

Patti was Patti and through a fit.

threw

“As for Wonderful Town casting, both leads will be played by black actresses.”

This true? I wondered why they would want to do it again, and assumed it was because Sutton Foster wanted to do it. With Foster, it might actually have a commercial run after Encores!

Saw “Urinetown” tonight. It was very popular with the packed house, was done well, consistently amusing, some real charm, courtesy of Jordan Fisher, who is good. But it’s a slight show, kinda like children’s theater, except characters get thrown off buildings. pastiche score is serviceable but completely forgettable. I guess I’d have to say I didn’t mind it but don’t get it, and you don’t need to see it.

Betty Garrett was also a nifty Ruth Sherwood in another musical film version of My Sister Eileen. opposite Janet Leigh as Eileen.

So, the role really has been played by a variety of actresses.

And I'll echo others here who saw Donna Murphy on Broadway. She truly was spectacular.

Lachanze as Ruth Sherwood. And she’ll produce it on Broadway after!

My vote is for Leslie uggums.

Jacquee!!!! Mary…..

I’d like to see it with two black actresses. Why not?

R233, did you see the original? That cast was perfect, which is why I don’t really want to see Keala Settle or Rainn Wilson or Jordan Fisher follow in the footsteps of much better performers.

Settle & Wilson are especially weak.

Yeah, but these are two sisters who really lived. And it's crucial that Eileen be a pretty blonde, and that she passes for Irish. The police in the station serenade her as an Irish Colleen, even though "mother's a Swede and father's a Scot and so Irish I'm not and never have been."

The real Eileen was married to Nathanael West. They were killed in a car crash a few days before My Sister Eileen opened on Broadway

Does anyone know if Keala Settle missed more than the one performance of URINETOWN, and why exactly she called out? If it was due to illness, I'm guessing she might well have had to miss more than one show. Has she been out for the rest of the first week after opening night?

[Quote] Yeah, but these are two sisters who really lived.

Are we doing that Gypsy bullshit again?

It's not "bullshit." If indeed two Black actors are cast in this WONDERFUL TOWN, I wonder if "My Darlin' Eileen" will be cut, or if that whole scene will be treated as a ridiculous joke.

Well there is the Conga number to wake everybody up!

Settle is well known for having “issues” and not just her stupid cultural appropriation of a full-on English accent when she never lived there until a few years ago,

So what issue kept Settle out of URINETOWN the other night, and did she miss only one performance.

Lots of unnecessary and vile anger in this thread.

You're just now joining us r249?

[quote]It's not "bullshit."

Of course it's bullshit. Who cares if the story is based on real people? They only exist in our consciousness because of the show. Plus, why are you so obsessed with getting their race right--who cares about what they looked like, their height, their weight, right?

[quote]Why are you so obsessed with getting their race right.

It's only an issue if the show doesn't make any sense with actors of color because of the period setting, the plot, the social construct of the story, etc. And unfortunately, many if not most old shows DON'T make sense when cast with POC, for those specific reasons.

R252, hence the caveat, " Re-imagined for a contemporary audience" that always accompanies it. Each director thinks that it is so imaginative and creative and that the audience will buy into it if the caveat is present. Theatergoers know that it means non-traditional casting and, if they don't like it, to stay away.

R215 it's become a cliche by this point.

Audra played Ruth in a recorded version of the score.

Billy Porter IS Mr. Appopoulos!.

[quote]Russell may own Ruth Sherwood, but many actresses have done well by it, Including Murphy and Brooke Shields.

I remember Shields was so well-received by both critics and the public when she took over for Murphy in the WONDERFUL TOWN revival that they released a second cast recording with her on it.

Was anyone at Old Friends last night in LA?

[quote]Audra played Ruth in a recorded version of the score.

Umm, no, look again. Audra would have been completely miscast from a vocal standpoint as Ruth in WONDERFUL TOWN. Just as she's completely miscast vocally as Rose in GYPSY.

OK, R259. Settle down. Yes, she played Eileen. R255's point was surely that it didn't bother the powers involved to have a black woman play *a lead* in their WONDERFUL TOWN recording. That it was Eileen is even more relevant.

[quote]Theatergoers know that it means non-traditional casting and, if they don't like it, to stay away.

I'm sure the Kennedy Center will be putting on shows they'll prefer from now on

Julie Andrews didn't really lose her voice after vocal cord surgery. Her voice here sounds just like it did before the surgery. It's actually in better shape than most female singers at age 65. The clarity and power are still there. Maybe she lost a few top notes, but that's it.

URINETOWN was never anything more than a college skit -- sort of entertaining but slight and too wise-ass for its own good.

[quote]It's only an issue if the show doesn't make any sense with actors of color because of the period setting, the plot, the social construct of the story, etc. And unfortunately, many if not most old shows DON'T make sense when cast with POC, for those specific reasons.

Did people burst into song, with an orchestra showing up out of nowhere, during that time period?

It's ALL fantasy. Let's stop pretending musicals must reflect reality to a T.

[quote]Audra would have been completely miscast from a vocal standpoint as Ruth in WONDERFUL TOWN. Just as she's completely miscast vocally as Rose in GYPSY.

Nicole S. has chimed in...

[quote]It's ALL fantasy. Let's stop pretending musicals must reflect reality to a T.

Want to do a non-Asian Miss Saigon, r264?

[quote]It's ALL fantasy. Let's stop pretending musicals must reflect reality to a T.

You'll love the Kennedy Center's all-white production of Show Boat.

In the case of Wonderful Town, the whole first scene in Act Two is Eileen at the police station. The police assume she's Irish, and the whole "My Darlin' Eileen" number is built around that idea.

I just wait for the day when there's a black Eliza Dolittle. That will really set you fuckers off.

Doolittle.

I'm pretty sure there have been black Elizas, r269. As has been pointed out, there are adjustments that have to be made with WT when a black Eileen is cast. No such adjustments would have to be made with a black Eliza.

[quote]Want to do a non-Asian Miss Saigon, [R264]?

Sure, why not?

R239: No, I never saw the original production of “Urinetown,” it never interested me. I wouldn’t have seen it last night except I have a subscription to Encores! As I said above, I didn’t hate it, but the idea that it is politically more relevant than ever makes little sense when you see the show. As political theater, it’s weak tea, simply stating the obvious at great length. The conceit wears thin before the end. I will say that the younger people in the audience seemed very enthusiastic about it.

And Keala Settle was in last night and was fine, but nothing special.

My impression was that the creative team at Encores! sees commercial runs beyond the standard run as desirable. I assume that was one reason “Urinetown” was revived now (though I don’t see it moving to Broadway). Having someone like Sutton Foster as Ruth could insure a Broadway run a la “Once Upon a Mattress,” since she’s a Broadway star, like it or not. And while a bit too old for it, she would otherwise be perfectly cast.

Putting two black performers in the lead in a period musical presents a problem for an oldster like me, who will constantly be thinking that two black women in that story of 1940s Greenwich Village would be ludicrous, impossible. To the point that it would interfere with the flow of the piece for me. I admit that‘s my problem. But even if younger audiiences could look past that, I don’t think it would be likely to have a commercial life after Encores! I just don’t.

I'm all for tru color blind casting. Yes, even a White A Raisin the the Sun--although it's tough to explain Whites in a show about race--Just like it would be tough to cast 6 foot tall actors in some show about Little People.

Otherwise, society has moved forward. Absolutely no one blinks an eye when Audra sings Gypsy (except the KKK ancients on DL). It should be the same for all shows.

[quote]Putting two black performers in the lead in a period musical presents a problem for an oldster like me,

Well, your death would help the world move forward, wouldn't it?

r275, Thanks for your compassion and attempt to understand my point of view.

While I think color blind casting is here to stay and that is a good thing, I also think it can present problems in a period piece. For one thing, younger audiences, who often know nothing of eras before their own, may get the idea that black people were well-integrated into society in the 1940s, when in fact the reverse is true. Blacks and whites in NYC shared public spaces but rarely shared neighborhoods and private spaces.

Whatever it’s other problems, “The Gilded Age” does it right by trying to show a striving but struggling black middle class trying to make its way in 1880s NY. It doesn’t act as if prejudice and segregation were non-existent.

[quote]Absolutely no one blinks an eye when Audra sings Gypsy (except the KKK ancients on DL)

Oh please, r274, the majority of complaints was about her legitimate soprano voice in those songs. This ancient thinks Pearl Bailey would have been a Rose for the ages.

Let's go Greek and wear masks.

Greek active or Greek passive?

r276 Or, wild idea, you could just ignore their skin colour.

How old are you, r280?

Terrific idea, R280, you’re invited to my all white production of Raisin In The Sun.

Or is that different?

Let’s be honest, R280, nobody ignores skin color, no matter what that color happens to be. Any more than we ‘ignore’ gender or ‘ignore’ whether we find someone attractive or not.

Let’s deal with the real world, shall we?

Funny to see people out themselves. There's a word for people who just can't look past skin colour. And no, r283, it's not everyone.

[quote]Umm, no, look again. Audra would have been completely miscast from a vocal standpoint as Ruth in WONDERFUL TOWN. Just as she's completely miscast vocally as Rose in GYPSY.

Audra was also vocally miscast as 'Deena' in the DREAMGIRLS concert that played Broadway in the early 2000s.

It co-starred Lillias White as 'Effie,' Heather Headley as 'Lorrell,' Norm Lewis as 'Curtis,' and Billy Porter as 'Jimmy.'

[quote]I'm pretty sure there have been black Elizas, [R269]. As has been pointed out, there are adjustments that have to be made with WT when a black Eileen is cast. No such adjustments would have to be made with a black Eliza.

We had a black Freddie, r271 with Jordan Donica.

[quote]Want to do a non-Asian Miss Saigon, [R264]?

I am disgusted with that suggestion. An Asian play should feature only Asians playing Asian roles. To introduce a person of another race in a central role would make the whole show illegitimate!

I'll ask again, r284. How old are you?

r288 Tell me first how that's even remotely relevant. Or is this just going to be a lame attempt at an ad hominem?

I'm simply asking to better understand your point of view, r289. I'm old enough to remember the turbulent '60s and the Civil Rights movement. Also, as a costume designer I'm familiar with historical aspects of race, religion, socioeconomic status, etc. and how they applied to what people wore. Can I look past skin color? Yes. Do I take a moment to maybe adjust to the period inaccuracy? Also yes.

Does it also take you "a moment to maybe adjust" to the singing and dancing? To the orchestra? To the rooms that only have three walls and no ceiling? To the people dressed in black who move said rooms? To the cast members playing multiple roles? The modern technology clearly on show? Or is it just one particular aspect that requires you to "adjust"?

And, yep, it was just a pathetic attempt at an ad hominem.

Have they started chopping down REDWOOD yet?

LoL, r291, you *totally* missed my point, bless your heart.

No more sock puppet arguments on culture war issues, pleae. The Floridaization of American culture by our White Christian Nationalist overlords will be turning our performing arts to shit soon enough.

R262, tell us you don't know anything about singing without telling us you don't know anything about singing.

Andrews did indeed sound terrific in that clip. But she sang everything down an octave. The botched surgery clearly put paid to her head voice.

I always wondered whether she would have ventured Mme Armfeldt if asked.

[quote][R255]'s point was surely that it didn't bother the powers involved to have a black woman play *a lead* in their WONDERFUL TOWN recording.

Some would say the fact that it was an audio-only recording made a huge difference, but I'm sure you'll passionately disagree with that. If a POC is cast as Eileen in the upcoming City Center production, it will be interesting to try to parse the levels of irony in the "Darlin' Eileen" number, which features a bunch of New York cops with Irish accents serenading Eileen because they're convinced she must be Irish. (And PLEASE don't respond that there are Black people in Ireland, because you know that's not the point.)

If it's truly colorblind casting, one sister would be white and one would be black.

R267 we call it Snow Boat.

[quote]Absolutely no one blinks an eye when Audra sings Gypsy (except the KKK ancients on DL). I

First of all, you shouldn't speak for everyone who has seen the show. But also, if people don't bat an eye at the casting of a Black woman as Rose, I'm sure for at least some people that's because the show has been reconceived (without actually rewriting it) so that the role is now that of a Black woman, historically inaccurate as that may be.

[quote]Andrews did indeed sound terrific in that clip. But she sang everything down an octave. The botched surgery clearly put paid to her head voice.

Not only did she sing everything down the octave, she only sang (as in matching pitches) about six actual notes of what few lines of lyrics she had to deliver in that clip, speaking or shouting the rest of her lines. It does seem that the surgery effectively destroyed her head voice, but she had been having major problems with that for years previously, probably mostly due to the natural aging process. Many women who are sopranos in the prime of their career lose their upper registers to one degree or another as they get older, especially after they pass menopause.

[quote]Many women who are sopranos in the prime of their career lose their upper registers to one degree or another as they get older, especially after they pass menopause.

For Lenny's 50th birthday gala in 1968 they got Madeline to sing Glitter & Be Gay because Barbara Cook couldn't hit the high note anymore.

Roundabout is sitting on something big. They're being very tight-lipped about the next show at Studio 54. Could it be "Cats-The Jellicle Ball"?

Maybe we'll finally get to see "Hazel - The Musical!"

[Quote] the majority of complaints was about her legitimate soprano voice in those songs.

Go see her. The complaints become utterly nonsensical when you actually see Audra perform the role. For me, it’s become the new standard

[quote]Maybe we'll finally get to see "Hazel - The Musical!"

I hope they don't cut the freewheeling mopping the patio number.

[quote]Roundabout is sitting on something big. They're being very tight-lipped about the next show at Studio 54. Could it be "Cats-The Jellicle Ball"?

Whatever goes into Studio 54, it will probably be a rental, because the Roundabout hardly produces anything anymore outside of the Todd Haimes Theatre (ugh!) and their Off-Broadway space.

[quote]Go see her. The complaints become utterly nonsensical when you actually see Audra perform the role. For me, it’s become the new standard

The next Gypsy revival will star Dame Kiri Te Kanawa, who will make her Broadway debut

R304, it's your opinion that the complaints about Audra's soprano voice in GYPSY are "nonsensical." For many people, the complaints make perfect sense, because THOSE SONGS WERE NOT WRITTEN TO BE SUNG THAT WAY., and no one other than Audra has ever sung them that way previously.

I loved CATS—The Jellical Ball, but I’m not sure it would make sense on Bway, for a larger audience.

[Quote] it's your opinion that the complaints about Audra's soprano voice in GYPSY are "nonsensical." For many people, the complaints make perfect sense, because THOSE SONGS WERE NOT WRITTEN TO BE SUNG THAT WAY., and no one other than Audra has ever sung them that way previously.

Oh, horror! These songs must be sung only one way or else they are invalid!!

No one has acted the hell out of it like Audra does—does that make her acting invalid too?

She’s so wrong for it that Sondheim’s excitement and approval of her in the role was because of dementia, right?

I love the whole “tell us about…without telling us about…” so clever.

Wonderful Town actually takes place in the 1930s. Its source material, of course, are the short stories by Ruth McKenney, written in 1938.

The sisters famously rent a dilapidated apartment on Christopher Street. Is it really so difficult to imagine young Black people living in that bohemian neighborhood in the 30s?

As for "Darlin' Eileen" I think it could only add to the humor of the song if Eileen is a beautiful Black woman. Irish cops are notoriously dumb.

These non-traditional casting arguments always go around in circles, because nobody will deal with the logical problem: Why is it okay for black people to play white roles, but very wrong for white people to play black roles?

Or, why EVERY fucking show now MUST have color blind casting. Doesn't matter if it's a play or musical; a cast of 3 or 30; a contemporary work or historical, you better have a checklist of "under represented" types in the cast or risk the wrath of...someone. Oh, and making sure you add on an element of strong feminist, gay, black, latin, whatever pride to every role in every older show because god forbid you don't give Jo March the feminist power she deserves in Little Woman.

Just do the fucking play/musical as it was written. If you don't like the fucking play/musical because it's not modern enough for you, then WRITE YOUR OWN NEW WORK!!!! Actually, that's preferable! Instead of casting a black actress to play Elizabeth Bennet in Pride & Prejudice, why not write a new play about what it was like to be a black woman in Regency era England? THAT's something I'd like to see. (Frankly, I don't need to see any more productions of P&P anyway...)

Another theater gossip thread turns into a tedious bore because of the same tedious arguments about nontraditional casting.

[quote] Doesn't matter if it's a play or musical; a cast of 3 or 30; a contemporary work or historical, you better have a checklist of "under represented" types in the cast or risk the wrath of...someone

I believe in the case of City Center, which receives funding from the NYC government, they are mandated to have racial diversity. I know some of the city funded museums face the same requirements.

^^A requirement from the DeBlasio administration. I know it applies to board members.

Anyone know the "all-white" Porgy and Bess with Mel Torme and Frances Faye? Of course it's just a recording, , but they don't sound black. It's a hoot.

"Get your white ass on stage it's a non-traditional cast tonight!"

-- some Forbidden B'way lyric when they lambasted Miss Saigon

We still have less than half of the thread to go. I prefer the colorblind casting argument start up within the last 100 or so posts.

[quote]Oh, horror! These songs must be sung only one way or else they are invalid!!

There have been many women who have sung these songs in different ways, with very different timbres to their voices. For example, I wouldn't say that Merman and Peters sounded much alike. BUT they all sang the songs in the Broadway alto-belt range in which they were intended to be sung, with no switching into a conservatory-soprano head voice for the climaxes.

[quote]No one has acted the hell out of it like Audra does—does that make her acting invalid too?

How many previous Roses have you see? I've seen basically all except Merman, and at least some of them acted it as well as Audra, maybe better in some scenes. Especially Lansbury and Daly.

[quote]She’s so wrong for it that Sondheim’s excitement and approval of her in the role was because of dementia, right?

As previously noted, Sondheim -- especially as he got older -- would approve almost any major changes and reinterpretations of his shows in order to get major productions of them. Including the bizarre gender-swaps in COMPANY.

[quote]Just do the fucking play/musical as it was written. If you don't like the fucking play/musical because it's not modern enough for you, then WRITE YOUR OWN NEW WORK!!!! Actually, that's preferable! Instead of casting a black actress to play Elizabeth Bennet in Pride & Prejudice, why not write a new play about what it was like to be a black woman in Regency era England? THAT's something I'd like to see.

Of course, you're absolutely right, but the reasons why it's not done the way you suggest more often are (1) most people don't have the talent to write a new show that's worthy of production, and (2) even if they DO have the talent to write a new show that's worthy of production, it's not going to have the cachet and marketability of a proven title like GYPSY or COMPANY or whatever.

Uh Oh. Audra's become an operatic trendsetter. I know this going to send a certain contingent on here into hysterics. You girls should burn your caftans in protest outside the Majestic.

[quote]Brought to the stage for the first time in France in a semi-staged format, Gypsy is a masterpiece of Broadway musical theatre, created by the legendary Jule Styne and Stephen Sondheim. It tells the story of a mother consumed by her dream of fame, portrayed by soprano Natalie Dessay. Directed by Laurent Pelly. With the Paris Chamber Orchestra

Well, that's an interesting item, R323. But I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Dessay will be singing the entire score in an alto-belt register, as a way of exploring new repertoire now that she's getting too old to continue singing coloratura soprano operatic roles. So her performances of the songs may end up being far closer to what Styne and Sondheim had in mind that what Audra is doing.

On a related note, Eileen Farrell would have been a great Rose, at least vocally.

r313 Because they aren't white roles. Unless the story is explicitly about the character being white, the race of the actor doesn't matter. All the bullshit arguments about historical accuracy or whatever are fig leafs for racists, like r314, to insist that black people not be cast at all in any show they don't write themselves.

Suspension of disbelief is absolutely core to the theatrical experience. If you can overlook the 18th century characters running around with mics stuck to their foreheads, you can overlook the historical inaccuracy of a character's race. Well, people who aren't racist can.

R324, you probably know that the bomb MINNIE'S BOYS was originally offered to Eileen Farrell. A shame she didn't give it a go!

[quote]Suspension of disbelief is absolutely core to the theatrical experience. If you can overlook the 18th century characters running around with mics stuck to their foreheads, you can overlook the historical inaccuracy of a character's race.

Do you really have to be so disingenuous, and so obviously? IF what you have written here were the true basis for the argument, then there would be no reason at all not to cast white actors in POC roles. Of course, it's NOT the real reason for casting POC in white roles despite historical inaccuracy,. The true, honest reason is, basically, trying to correct the racist underrepresentation of the past by going in the opposite direction. Some would say they're going too fast and too far, while many others feel it's a good and noble way to deal with the situation, but at least people who think as you do should be honest about their agenda.

R312. Irish cops are notoriously dumb

Amazing that in your defense of diversity you managed to insult Irish Police Officers. I guess the diverse cops are smarter.

Has no one ever heard of the Black Irish?

r327 Once again, they aren't white roles. And the very fact that you think black actors aren't good enough to be cast except as some form of reparation tells us everything we need to know about your agenda.

[quote]Once again, they aren't white roles.

Are there black roles?

I’m what’s known as black Irish. Dark hair, pale skin. I also have an insufferably stupid name but that’s another matter entirely.

Playbill has a piece on why Broadway shows close. It feels like the gay version of having to explain someone died. Also, I wonder if they're preparing readers for an to-be-announced closure (MJ? Moulin Rouge? Hadestown?).

R273 you're nevah too old to play Ruth Sherwood! Sutton's still got years she can do it.

I was imbuing the role with deep brewed flavah at the age of 52 in a 1977 summuh tour: just a 20-something girl from Ohio who escapes to the big city with her little sister.

How about some gossip from forty years ago? I’m reading a book about Terrence McNally and learned something that I never knew. In 1984, he was hired to write a new book for an existing score by Kander and Ebb, who were dissatisfied with the efforts of their original librettist, Albert Innaurato. McNally's involvement with The Rink not only reversed the traditional pattern of collaboration in which the book is completed before the composer and lyricist begin work on the score, but he was expected to fashion an original story that showcased the talents of stars Liza Minnelli and Chita Rivera, who were already under contract and ready to begin rehearsals.

My lame quip about dumb Irish cops was meant merely as a joke (and a very obvious one) to counterbalance the wokeness of the rest pf my post.

Can anyone name 3 plays/musicals that originally and traditionally have been performed by Black performers but could realistically and sensibly now be performed by white performers?

2?

1?

No, I didn't think so.

[quote]Has no one ever heard of the Black Irish?

In a joke that would never fly today, r329:

[quote]In the musical "The Producers", one of the policemen that come to arrest Max Bialystock and Leo Bloom is African-American and speaks with an Irish accent. Upon hearing him speak, Max turns to the audience and says, "I've heard of black Irish, but this is ridiculous!"

Can anyone name 3 plays/musicals that originally and traditionally have been performed by White performers but could realistically and sensibly now be performed by Black performers?

Death of a Salesman, A Streetcar Named Desire, Come Back, Little Sheba, Hello, Dolly! and Guys & Dolls for starters, r339.

Did you come up with anything to answer r337?

[quote] Did you come up with anything to answer [R337]?

No, because a white person playing a black role is always socially unacceptable. White is the only race not allowed to portray other races. I think we’re questioning why this is.

I wonder how much longer Cabaret can stay open. It's flopping with Adam Lambert.

[quote]No, because a white person playing a black role is always socially unacceptable. White is the only race not allowed to portray other races. I think we’re questioning why this is.

Many reasons. The most obvious one is that "Black roles" are almost always in plays about being Black. Sure you could do Porgy and Bess with a White cast, but it would seem laughably absurd. A second reason is that there are so many opportunities for White actors, why should they also be allowed to play Black roles.

"White roles" don't tend to be about being white. And. only Americans seems to be utterly obsessed with race. When they do Wonderful Town in China, do they think: This isn't realistic with two Chinese actors playing the sisters, so cancel all productions!!!

Hilarious when the DL Ancients come on here and blather about how actors must do things only one way or else the whole thing is invalid,

Time has marched on. No one wants the duplicate of the last production you saw, likely 50 years ago. The new audiences haven't even seen whatever production you're referring to

[quote] they all sang the songs in the Broadway alto-belt range in which they were intended to be sung

So?

[quote] I've seen basically all except Merman, and at least some of them acted it as well as Audra, maybe better in some scenes. Especially Lansbury and Daly.

So?

[quote] As previously noted, Sondheim -- especially as he got older -- would approve almost any major changes and reinterpretations of his shows in order to get major productions of them. Including the bizarre gender-swaps in COMPANY.

So?

Didn’t white actors routinely play Native Americans in old TV shows and movies back in the day? Granted, that’s different from the theater but just saying the practice isn’t unheard of.

[quote] Including the bizarre gender-swaps in COMPANY.

Company is a painfully dated work. Every writer knows that, if it's going to have a long life, it needs to be modernized

White actors have played Jesus, Asian characters, American Indian characters, blackfaced Black character, and on and on and on.

No one fucking complaint from white people.

The second a Black performer plays a White character, White fragility sets in and all hell breaks loose.

25 Times White Actors Played People Of Color And No One Really Gave A Shit

The Audra "I don't like her heard voice" controversy started as the Audra "is Black in a role about White person" controversy.

Once people realize they are acting outwardly racist, they quickly switch it to be about something else.

Is it possible to not like a black person's performance without being racist?

R349 is saying they're okay with white people playing other races. A bold take.

Good Lord – I can’t believe people are still fighting over this stupid topic.

We had tickets to see Sweeney Todd with Josh Groban, but he was out. A black guy filled in for him. He was amazing. Pretty sure his race did not contribute to or detract from the role he was playing. But god, he could belt a tune.

[quote] A black guy filled in for him. He was amazing.

Nicholas Christopher. He's super talented.

And he’s more handsome than Josh Groban

I didn't see Nicholas Christopher in Sweeney, but I had some friends say he was the best Sweeney they had ever seen. He was brilliant in Jelly's Last Jam, which should have moved to Broadway.

Audience members being homophobic at a Dolly Parton jukebox musical

"We wants to be modernized."

"Citified."

"We wants to broaden our HO-rizons."

"You're Ho-rizons iz broad enough already....'specially yours!"

[quote]We had tickets to see Sweeney Todd with Josh Groban, but he was out. A black guy filled in for him.

Nicholas Christopher. [I see others have already mentioned this, but yes, great performer]

In 2000, Lea Delaria played Eddie/Dr Scott in Rocky Horror. Her understudy was James Stovall. It did get a little confusing at the end of the show,because there was filmed footage of Dr Scott and they'd never gotten around to filming James.

...but it's Rocky Horror. You've already got a woman playing two male characters, so why shouldn't her understudy be a big black man?

There are white roles and black roles but prefer a onion roll, a Kaiser if your in a pinch.

Dont' forget the egg rolls!!!

DL prefers the Eye Roll.

R350, that just isn’t true. Chipotle jokes aside, DL has long held Audra in high esteem, but even some of her biggest fans here questioned from the moment this Gypsy was announced whether that glorious voice we LOVE was right for the role of Madame Rose.

[quote] Is it possible to not like a black person's performance without being racist?

Not when the first statement is the Black person mustn't play a "white" role.

[quote] that just isn’t true. Chipotle jokes aside, DL has long held Audra in high esteem, but even some of her biggest fans here questioned from the moment this Gypsy was announced whether that glorious voice we LOVE was right for the role of Madame Rose.

Please. The very first protest was about a Black singer playing a White role.

[quote] that just isn’t true. Chipotle jokes aside, DL has long held Audra in high esteem, but even some of her biggest fans here questioned from the moment this Gypsy was announced whether that glorious voice we LOVE was right for the role of Madame Rose.

And it turned out her voice was perfect for the role and her acting was utterly brilliant. She created a Rose we had never seen before. So no need to question it any longer.

I too had tickets for Sweeney when Nicholas Christopher subbed for Josh Grobin. Sure, I was disappointed I didnt get to see Groban (still am) but Christopher was pretty amazing.

When I saw him in Jelly's Last Jam, I was blown away by his talent and his perfect fit for the role. Amazing!

[quote] White is the only race not allowed to portray other races.

I hope you were being facetious.

[quote]Can anyone name 3 plays/musicals that originally and traditionally have been performed by Black performers but could realistically and sensibly now be performed by white performers?

Othello (several productions with white Othello & black Iago)

4 Saints in 3 Acts

Now will you shut your tired Klan Granny ass up?

Oh my GOD, the race-obsessed eldergays sniping at each other are so fucking tiring. You've had this "debate" so many times before. I bet it's the exact same 3-4 of you going in endless circles. You're never going to convince each other. Just... please... drop it? We can talk about anything else... even God damn Follies!

If you don't stop, we're going to cut off your supply of Lisinopril and Ensure for a FULL WEEK.

Lisinopril is ghastly. Made me cough at night.

I agree with R370, but I object to the idea that they're all eldergays. I don't think eldergays are the only ones (if at all) who bang on about the issue of nontraditional/color-blind casting. That seems to me to be a topic of interest for a (slightly or much) younger gaggle of DL gays. But who knows? One thing is sure: it has become a beyond-tedious topic that has stunk up not only this thread but all the others before this. Shut the fuck up, finally. You're all tired cunts at this point.

R372 - fair enough. The young gays who may be engaging in this endless debate are equally tiring. We will cut off THEIR supply of gummies and Celsius, too

One of the Suffs will play Gussie in the film version of Merrily We Roll Along.

My conspiracy theory about the race argument is that someone starts it when they want to move the thread along. It usually comes with approximately 100 posts. I just never understand why people feel the need to rush through a thread.

[quote]One of the Suffs will play Gussie in the film version of Merrily We Roll Along

It's not just the eldergays who won't live long enough to see that movie. That film is doomed to never be completed, like Orson Welles' "It's All True." Who will care about Ben Platt and Beanie Feldstein 20 years from now? Hardly anyone cares about them now.

[quote] Hardly anyone cares about them now.

No one cares about them now, R376.

Fixed.

I wonder that when wonderful town plays in China, will the entire entire cast be Chinese, or just the two leads and the rest mixed race?

r375 No, it starts once a black person gets cast in a role and some posters start bitching about it. If DLers decided to actually oppose the racists and force them out, then it would end. But hey, just ignoring a problem like racism has never led to any negative consequences, has it?

[quote]It's not just the eldergays who won't live long enough to see that movie. That film is doomed to never be completed, like Orson Welles' "It's All True." Who will care about Ben Platt and Beanie Feldstein 20 years from now? Hardly anyone cares about them now.

Clearly they need to cast black actors.

No one is talking about meeeeeeeeee. :(

The problem is that any grumble about non traditional casting is immediately interpreted as blatant racism.

To be fair, Cole, we're not even 100% sure you're returning to Oh, Mary! this spring.

And you thought you were being more subtle, r382?

[Quote] The problem is that any grumble about non traditional casting is immediately interpreted as blatant racism.

Um, that’s what it is. They NEVER grumble when whites play Asians, American Indians, Middle Easterners, Latinos, etc

[quote]Once again, they aren't white roles.

Many POC actors have already been cast in roles that make no sense if the characters aren't white. One of the most ridiculous examples was that hellish production of 1776, which also as a bonus featured women playing male roles that make absolutely zero sense when played by women.

[quote]The very fact that you think black actors aren't good enough to be cast except as some form of reparation tells us everything we need to know about your agenda.

Of course, I stated absolutely nothing of the kind, because I don't think that way. Are you (1) so dim as to have completely misunderstood what I wrote, or (2) so incapable of rationally defending your argument that you insult me for my supposed "agenda" even though you know that's not really my agenda?

[quote]Company is a painfully dated work. Every writer knows that, if it's going to have a long life, it needs to be modernized

It's not "dated" at all if you keep the action set circa 1970. It actually seems more dated if you set the action in the present day and have all these couples constantly haranguing their male (or female) friend to get married, because attitudes toward unmarried people have changed so radically since 1970.

[quote]The Audra "I don't like her heard voice" controversy started as the Audra "is Black in a role about White person" controversy. Once people realize they are acting outwardly racist, they quickly switch it to be about something else.

There's nothing more arrogant than a prick like you having the gall to state as fact that other people are thinking one thing but saying another. P.S.,, I have a Black friend who feels Audra is all wrong for GYPSY from a vocal standpoint -- and that's because this particular friend is a singer and knows what he's talking about, whereas you clearly do not.

Are you okay with whites playing other races, R385? It seems to irk you.

I’m surprised to hear it happens all the time. I haven’t seen it in about 40 years, but maybe I don’t get out enough.

Suffs was such a chore.

[quote]It's not "dated" at all if you keep the action set circa 1970. It actually seems more dated if you set the action in the present day and have all these couples constantly haranguing their male (or female) friend to get married, because attitudes toward unmarried people have changed so radically since 1970.

Thank YOU, R387. Well said! This is one of the many reasons the Company revival didn't work for me. The NY Phil concert version with Neil Patrick Harris was exceptionally well cast and 'understood the assignment'. They didn't attempt to unconvincingly and awkwardly set a show in the present day -- despit it having the late 60s/early 70s in its ever fiber. EVERYTHING about that show screams late 60s/early 70s -- from Sondheim's wonderful almost Baccharac'esque score, to the lyrical references to Furth's book and the social norms and mores it satirized. Honestly doubt we'll get a full revival as successful as that concert production.

Oh no we’ve veered off topic and moved to Company. Please can we get back to Audra and her suitably or not for Rose and also the racial casting conversations? Please. They never get tired.

When in doubt, return to Sondheim.

This thread consists of queens cunting about non-traditional casting, Sondheim, or Audra McDonald. Over and over and over. Don't you ever get sick of hearing yourselves? Apparently not. It's a shame this thread has devolved into nothing more than those three incredibly (by now) boring topics. You should all fucking die in a grease fire.

Nick Jonas and Adrienne Warren's new video to promote The Last Five Years. Discuss.

“ Suffs was such a chore.”

Suffs was a Wikipedia article, set to music.

I think within another 20 years it will become more the norm to produce COMPANY in its authentic historic period. By then the distance in time will be perceived as charming and fun and more interesting. Most of the people who saw the original production will be dead by then.

TPOS opened at The Imperial 46 years ago today!

r386 Your own words were:

[quote]The true, honest reason is, basically, trying to correct the racist underrepresentation of the past by going in the opposite direction.

Along with your insistence on referring to "white roles" it's quite clear what your true feelings are. This tends to be the problem with the posters here - they think they're being subtle and sly when in fact they aren't and their true meanings are very clear.

1776 was attempting to copy Hamilton, which used the colour-conscious casting extremely successfully. It's going against historical accuracy deliberately to make a point. Are you really too dense to understand that?

[quote] I have a Black friend

Oof. You seriously can't hear yourself, can you?

It's impossible to discuss race here, and I respectfully suggest we abandon the attempt.

[quote]The true, honest reason is, basically, trying to correct the racist underrepresentation of the past by going in the opposite direction. Some would say they're going too fast and too far, while many others feel it's a good and noble way to deal with the situation, but at least people who think as you do should be honest about their agenda.

In less than a century, Democrats went from being anti-black to being anti-white.

Only from the 1960s through the 2000s were Democrats moderate and on the right side of history.

Miscast 25 lineup

R399, if you DON'T believe that, as I wrote, "The true, honest reason is, basically, trying to correct the racist underrepresentation of the past by going in the opposite direction," then you are either a fool or lying to yourself. Or I suppose both is possible. But why you would not believe that, and what you believe instead, is beyond me.

And your reaction to my statement that I have a Black friend who thinks Audra is all wrong for GYPSY vocally is typical and very telling. Because this opinion as voiced by a Black person not accord with your idiotic belief that any criticism of Audra in GYPSY must come down to racism, you simply refuse to address his statement and instead try to make fun of me for saying that I have a Black friend, when of course I have many Black friends, and I only phrased it as "I have a Black friend" because I was only quoting one of them.

^^ super defensive

r403 You might want to reflect on the fact that posters like r401 quote you to back up their racist bullshit claims. Funny how you didn't respond to r401 and decry their comments.

Has anyone seen Erika Jayne in Chicago? I've seen a few clips of her as Roxie online and she just looks cold and blank with limited dancing skills.

R406 = Lisa Rinna

Is Audra a Ben or a Buddy in a gender blind FOLLIES?

Just posted on ATC, r406:

[quote]Wow. What a mess. If you want an example of a show that is stale and tired…..this would be it. Erika Jayne can kinda sing but can’t act or dance. Max von Essen must have been having an off night because he had zero charisma or charm and the character needs some of that to buy in to the fact that he’s a crooked lawyer. Female ensemble was especially sloppy. Cell Block Tango was marked at best. And the lady that played Kitty had no vigor or stage presence.

[quote]Either fire the majority of the cast and start over or close it. It does not represent the best of broadway at all.

R409. Wow! Thanks for sharing that.

[quote]One of the most ridiculous examples was that hellish production of 1776, which also as a bonus featured women playing male roles that make absolutely zero sense when played by women.

1776 is a show absolutely no one wants to see. They tried to jazz it up to make it interesting again. It didn't work because the entire show is a bore.

[quote]Are you okay with whites playing other races, [R385]? It seems to irk you. I’m surprised to hear it happens all the time. I haven’t seen it in about 40 years, but maybe I don’t get out enough.

See R349.

Plus EVERY Jesus in recent memory has been played by someone lily white.

R405, I apologize for the belated response, but I do indeed decry R401's statement that "In less than a century, Democrats went from being anti-black to being anti-white." To me, that's just the kind of ridiculously broad exaggeration and generalization that has no meaning and reflects more on the person who made the statement than it does on those they are targeting.

[quote]I think within another 20 years it will become more the norm to produce COMPANY in its authentic historic period.

In 20 years, the only place you'll see Company is at Encores.

[quote]I have a Black friend who thinks Audra is all wrong for GYPSY vocally

Seriously? You're going down the "I have a Black friend...:"route?

Can someone remind me who this sexy Daddy (who does not skip leg day) is? I KNOW he's someone in the Broadway community, but I'm drawing a blank.

And, if I'm correct... anyone had him??

Looks like David Korins?

The newest grosses are in.

[quote]Seriously? You're going down the "I have a Black friend...:"route?

I do have a particular Black friend -- among several Black friends -- who is a singer, as I stated, and whose opinion on Audra in GYPSY I quoted specifically because he is a singer. My point was that, as he himself is Black, I hardly think anyone in their right mind would have the nerve to charge that his opinion is based in racism, which some people here insist MUST be the case with anyone who things Audra is vocally wrong for Rose in GYPSY.

I'm very curious as to how you think I should have phrased my post.

[quote]Looks like David Korins?

R417 - Ah! That's exactly who it is. Well spotted. Looks like he's a total pussy hound. What a waste.

[quote]Looks like he's a total pussy hound. What a waste.

Not to those with pussies!

What kept you, Eli G / R421?

Maybe Denzel is a notorious pussy hound, too?

R406, my friend went to see her in the show this past weekend. He wasn’t impressed.

R423. He's lucky a broken tongue is all he got.

Eldergays, tell us about And Puppy Dog Tails (or other hot gay-themed theatre from back in the day.) Was this a truly sexy show or just false advertising?

[quote]My point was that, as he himself is Black, I hardly think anyone in their right mind would have the nerve to charge that his opinion is based in racism, which some people here insist MUST be the case with anyone who things Audra is vocally wrong for Rose in GYPSY.

and I have a Black friend who thinks Audra;s Gypsy is the greatest he's ever seen and he's seen them all (except Merman). So we're even

More of the cast...

R426. Directed by 'Mr. Devereaux'. Blanche's husband?

R422, I don't get all this divisive talk about white vs black...white pussies, black pussies...they're all good!

Is the Benjamin Button musical coming to Broadway? Everyone says it's amazing.

Where's the gossip? Producers, casting offices, agents...where's the tea?

In honor of R416, who’s trying to get this thread back on the gossip track, here’s a fascinating interview with Michael Rupert from a book called A Wonderful Guy. Michael has the reputation of being a really nice guy, and this was experience of working with Elaine Stritch when he appeared in The Full Monty:

She made me feel like it was months in rehearsal. That's how awful she was. Just an awful human being. Evil. Evil. Mean-spirited, nasty evilness. I'm telling you it's true. She would say things like, "You're not going to play it like that, are you?" I finally got to the point where I literally told her to go fuck herself. I said, "Yeah, actually I'm going to, and you can go fuck yourself, Elaine. I don't care if you're a fucking legend." Mark dragged me out of the room, and said, "Calm down, calm down." I said, "Fire me, Mark, because I'm going to hit her. I'm actually going to slug her." That's how awful she was. You have to really push me into a corner for me to push back like that. I've mostly only worked with great people. Anybody who understands the nature of theater knows that it only works if we're all in it together. Unlike film, where you can do great coverage and then walk off the set and be an asshole to everybody, and your work is still going to play. Elaine was miserable. She hated her life and she was going to make sure everybody else's lives around her were miserable, too. I think she was self destructive and then even when she became a recovering alcoholic, she had not let go of this self-loathing that somehow was going to make her determined to make everybody else's lives around her as miserable as she felt her own life was. I could see her actively trying to make everybody miserable. I could see it. And because of that, I hated her.

Oh Mary on TDF.

Good grosses, Broadway looks to be in healthy shape. And THE OUTSIDERS at over 100% capacity, though I don’t understand how that can be — it includes standing room?

I saw the show last year, a musical straight guys in their 30s to 50s can love, and very much a straight male weepie as well. It’s a very shrewdly judged show, I’m not surprised at its success.

R433. THANK YOU! Sounds like Michael Rupert had the guts to say what so many others who worked with her were thinking. Frankly, I never got the appeal of Stritch.

R432, there was talk about certain actors' sex lives, but it seems some people here would rather argue with each other about color-blind casting and Audra McDonald.

R434. Not for long.

I'm sure STRITCH was a nightmare to work with. It's certainly interesting to read about, but it doesn't diminish my love of her from an audience perspective one shred. She was one of a kind, she made her mark. At Liberty remains one of the most thoroughly entertaining nights I've had in the theatre and I loved her late TV career resurgence on 30 Rock. She, Tina Fey and Alec Baldwin were perfect together.

I loved Audra in Gypsy (and I'm not a huge fan of hers) but she did act the shit out of that role. Her singing was not what I'd expect for that role, but I'm glad to see a different interpretation. That said, I don't think I need to see Gypsy (unless Babs finally does the movie, hopefully only directing).

Babs doing Gypsy. Oh my stars. Yeah, and Glenn is just "looking for a director" for Sunset. Both wonderful women. Icons. But... dang... do they not own mirrors?

[quote]I'm sure STRITCH was a nightmare to work with. It's certainly interesting to read about, but it doesn't diminish my love of her from an audience perspective one shred.

And why should it? Can your brain somehow not process the fact that an exceptionally talented person can also be a horrible human being?

[quote]Babs doing Gypsy. Oh my stars. Yeah, and Glenn is just "looking for a director" for Sunset. Both wonderful women. Icons. But... dang... do they not own mirrors?

In Babs' case, I guess the mirror has two faces :-) And, apparently, in Glenn's case as well!

r442 Can your brain not process that you don't always need to be a cunt?

I think I saw Michael Rupert in the original production of Pippin after Rubenstein left.

Company is so 1970 by 1972 it was as relevant as No No Nannette.

Rupert '68

LIZA!

R433 well can you imagine having to look at THAT face in the mirror every morning?

I watched the documentary Leonard Soloway's Broadway on TUBI this weekend. It was released in 2019 - he passed away in 2021/

It was a lot of fun and he was open about his sexual escapades although no real names were named. Recommended by the likes of me - especially if you are tired of bloggers and internet "experts" who don't their orchestra from their balcony.

R450- Thanks! Sounds like a fun watch! Any other Broadway docs you'd recommend?

I don't know why people have a hard time with contemporary "now set" works turning into historical works. Or, why they think they always have to be "now". What's wrong with setting Company and Follies in 1970/71? Or, A Chorus Line in 1975?

It seems to break some people's brains...like the 1970s don't compute.

The Liza doc is very good overall. There is one mind-boggling moment when, apparently without any irony, she insists there were no drugs at Studio 54 -- or, at least, she didn't partake in them. But then, after that, there is a whole segment that confronts her substance abuse head-on and quite honestly.

The only thing the movie shies away from is discussing how often she canceled performances, whether due to substance abuse or whatever. And David Gest is only mentioned briefly, though VERY negatively. Other than that, the movie is pretty much a warts-and-all portrait of Liza.

I'm with you, R452. I'm gonna say it's mostly people of limited intelligence and education who can't stretch their brains to understand that a movie or play or whatever is set in a time when things were very different as far as social attitudes, technology, etc.

[quote] There is one mind-boggling moment when, apparently without any irony, she insists there were no drugs at Studio 54

Well, R453, she was high at the time.

R454 And, it's not just about intelligence or education. I have a friend who is a very intelligent and VERY well educated (Oxford) who had huge issues with a production of Hedda Gabler because the costumes were stylized. They were only Victorian clothes; a bit of a blend of Victorian with 50s/60s chic and it really confounded and annoyed her because it wasn't true period. Which is really stupid because you seldom really get 100% authentic design in any piece of theater.

Follies can only be set in the early '70s, r452.

Annie Joe Edwards, who played the maid in the infamous Legends tour, died today. She was an original.

Nick Jonas sounds awful. Who asked for this?

Funny to note that r456 is also r314.

Annie Joe Edwards was also fucking hilarious as Delilah the maid in the film within the film Purple Rose of Cairo.

So was Deborah Rush.

ALW and Tim Rice are teaming up again to write songs for a show about Sherlock Holmes

Has Encores! ever considered Baker Street?

r450

He was quite a predatory perv. Believe me.

If they ever considered Baker Street, they surely turned it down after hearing the score.

Maybe a Gerry Rafferty jukebox musical would work better.

As someone who has worked on and off Broadway and everywhere else for decades, I can tell you that no director working today, whether they're in their 20s or in their 80s wants truly authentic period sets and costumes. They all believe it's boring and old-fashioned and think audiences feel the same.

Mind you, I don't agree, but it's what I hear constantly.

They don't have to *be* authentic, they just need to *look* authentic.

R460 Not really. A costume isn't quite the same as a person. And, my original post was ranting about the FREQUENCY of checklist casting and how it's now expected that EVERY production must adhere. It's lazy and boring and pandering. And, honestly, it really only benefits the Actors of Color who are getting a lot more work (good for them!) But, I think audiences are bored and annoyed by it and it doesn't really seem to be drawing in new audiences to see all those diversely cast shows. Traditional theater companies haven't been particularly inviting to non white audiences in the past; suddenly casting actors of color in Pride & Prejudice isn't really going to lure them in. What does lure them in is when theaters do works written by black/asian/latin authors and featuring black/asian/latin stories. Fortunately, more theater companies are wising up and investing in that kind of new work. Which is what should be the focus of theater companies...encouraging new work for new audiences and not producing Mamma Mia or Our Town for the 15 th time.

R426, here's the Times review of "And Puppy Dog Tails".

The Times headline: "Homosexuals depicted as happy, a novelty".

Which is more or less true in this thread so far.

A happy homosexual on DL? Then what the hell are they doing on DL?!

r470 still can't believe that black actors might actually be getting cast based on merit rather than as reparations.

[quote] Annie Joe Edwards, who played the maid in the infamous Legends tour, died today. She was an original. - r458

Written by James Kirkwood, co writer of A Chorus Line, starring Carol Channing and Mary Martin, featuring Gary Beach. Also in the cast was Eric Riley, who, along with Annie Joe Edwards, was also in the original cast of AIN'T MISBEHAVING. If I recall correctly, Riley had some kind of a strip scene in LEGENDS.

The infamous LEGENDS! tour madness was chronicled in Kirkwood's hysterical DIARY OF A MAD PLAYWRIGHT, R458. Well worth the read if you can find it. Wendy Wasserstein touches on this in her review of that book, from the link below:

No worries for those in the cheap seats - I'll copypasta the article in my next post.

[quote]Annie Joe Edwards was also fucking hilarious as Delilah the maid in the film within the film Purple Rose of Cairo was also fucking hilarious as Delilah the maid in the film within the film Purple Rose of Cairo - r461

She was also in the VERY short-lived DR JAZZ. All five days of it.

Legends toured for a year, never made it to Broadway. It was a camp fest.

Eric Riley? Annie Joe Edwards? Unless they were understudies they were most definitely not in the original cast of Ain't Misbehavin which I saw more times than any other show.,

[R470] still can't believe that black actors might actually be getting cast based on merit rather than as reparations.

No, that's a lie, R470 wrote nothing of the kind. Just as I wrote nothing of the kind in my previous post.

And no, R470 and I are not the same person, though we seem to think alike on this issue. The thing is, even if you write that "what does lure in audiences is when theaters do works written by Black/Asian/Latin authors and featuring Black/Asian/Latin stories," you're still going to be labeled "racist" by some people here if you ALSO object to POC being cast in roles in old plays and musicals where such casting makes no sense. That's the sort of unthinking, insulting, knee-jerk response that's all too prevalent on the DL and elsewhere.

Sorry, that was supposed to be:

[quote][R470] still can't believe that black actors might actually be getting cast based on merit rather than as reparations.

No, [R473], that's a lie. [R470] wrote nothing of the kind. Just as I wrote nothing of the kind in my previous post.

And no, [R470] and I are not the same person, though we seem to think alike on this issue. The thing is, even if you write that "what does lure in audiences is when theaters do works written by Black/Asian/Latin authors and featuring Black/Asian/Latin stories," you're still going to be labeled "racist" by some people here if you ALSO object to POC being cast in roles in old plays and musicals where such casting makes no sense. That's the sort of unthinking, insulting, knee-jerk response that's all too prevalent on the DL and elsewhere.

[quote] Eric Riley? Annie Joe Edwards? Unless they were understudies they were most definitely not in the original cast of Ain't Misbehavin which I saw more times than any other show.,

Both were understudies during the original run. As per IBDB, they were in the company at some point during the last year of the run when it had moved to the Belasco.

r477 Except the casting does make sense. You and the other posters who solely judge actors based on their skin colour (gee, I wish there was a word for people like that) just constantly make up bullshit reasons to try and pretend it doesn't, which mostly boils down to you being unable to see beyond race. Once again - just because a role has previously only been played by white people does not make it a white role. A white role is one in which the person being white has an explicit bearing upon the story.

But keep telling yourself it's just an "unthinking, insulting, knee-jerk response" rather than actually consider the fact you might actually be wrong. Don't consider the fact that a very obvious racist approvingly quoted your post as proof of the Dems being "anti-white". Ignore the fact that the poster you're defending said black actors shouldn't be allowed to be cast in Pride and Prejudice because of the colour of their skin. But don't be surprised when people call you out for what you are.

I'm sure you wouldn't tolerate people saying anything like this bullshit in any other industry. If someone were to say that black people shouldn't work at The Gap because they sell clothes for white people, and if black people want to work retail they should start their own shop selling clothes for black people. So why are you here defending someone saying that about theatre?

I wasn't gonna say anything, but it sounds like some of you need dick--both the black and white variety. Now, I'm only into pussy, but if meant keeping you quiet, I'd make an exception and shove my cock into your mouth just to shut you the fuck up.

[quote]I'm sure you wouldn't tolerate people saying anything like this bullshit in any other industry. If someone were to say that black people shouldn't work at The Gap because they sell clothes for white people, and if black people want to work retail they should start their own shop selling clothes for black people.

If you don't understand the vast difference between this fantasy scenario and casting a Black actress as (for example) Blanche in A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE, then it's obviously beyond my powers to explain it to you.

I'm not going to bother to go through your other comments one by one, but I will say I agree with your statement that "A white role is one in which the person being white has an explicit bearing upon the story" -- except I think race has a lot of bearing on lots of characters in lots of stories of older shows, because of the social/racial constructs of the time. Which is why, to choose only one more of countless examples, the casting of Black performers as the two younger incarnations of the female lead in THE NOTEBOOK made no sense. You are free to disagree, but it's very wrong of you to continue labeling people as racist because they question color-blind casting on artistic grounds.

[quote]Eric Riley? Annie Joe Edwards? Unless they were understudies they were most definitely not in the original cast of Ain't Misbehavin which I saw more times than any other show.

As r478 says, they were standbys and eventually replacements in the original production, r475. They aren't listed on AIN'T MISBEHAVIN's IBDB page, but they both claim it on theirs. IBDB is notorious for its errors and misstatements. Despite IBDB not listing her, Annie Joe Edwards was most definitely in the cast as they appeared at the Longacre. I saw her go on at least once for Nell Carter - I second acted a lot in the 70s - 80s. I don't recall ever seeing Riley but I believe he was standby for De Shields.

Annie Joe Edwards moved to the London West End production in1979, along with Charlaine Woodard and André De Shields as Performer #1.

r481 They aren't artistic grounds though. You try and pretend they are, but every time you're forced to actually defend that your argument falls apart. And that's all down to the fact that you've repeatedly proven you're unwilling or unable to see black actors as just actors. To you, it can't just be that a black person was chosen because they aced the casting - it has to be political. It can't be that directors assume a theatre audience is intelligent enough to look past skin colour. Nah, must be a DEI hire.

r480 If you're the white choice, Eli, I'll go black every single time.

Great. Now shut the fuck up, R483. No one wants to hear from you anymore.

If only this site had an Ignore function, eh r484?

If only this site didn't have cunts like you who thought anyone gave a shit about your fucking boring opinions spouted over and over and over, R485.

R483, it's YOUR OPINION that my argument "falls apart" when I try to defend it. I think my argument stands up completely, and I know many people agree with me, though a lot of them are afraid to say so for fear of being labeled "racists" by the likes of you.

Again, NO ONE here -- myself included -- stated that "it can't just be that a black person was chosen because they aced the casting." That won't and can't change, no matter how often you repeat the lie.

Speaking of arguments not holding up: If your argument were worthy, you would be able to explain why, in your eyes, a Black actress cast as Blanche in A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE makes perfect sense, whereas a white actor cast in any of the leads in PORGY AND BESS would be ridiculous to you (and to me). But, of course, you can't. So I'll participate no further in this discussion, and just let me say in advance that I'm sure I'll disagree completely with anything further you have to say on this subject.

Also in the cast was Eric Riley, who, along with Annie Joe Edwards, was also in the original cast of AIN'T MISBEHAVING.

I said 'unless they were understudies.' Please learn to read before commenting on other people's post. Also the way it is written it gives the impression they WERE in the original cast. He should have said they were standbys for the original cast they were not IN it.

And nobody would ever say Bibi Osterwald was in the original cast of Hello, Dolly!

R451 it's the first one I've watched in a long time.

So my recommendations would be from the Stone Age - DL speaking.

Moon Over Broadway is probably my favorite - showing what it's really like to work with "stars" and what a fraud Ken Ludwig really is. The Emperor has no clothes.

Watch it on DVD so you can go a second time and listen to the various commentaries.

And of course I posted a wrong link.....here's the first part of the doc with commentary.

I'm not sure if this would strictly be considered a "Broadway doc," but the documentary of the recording sessions of WEST SIDE STORY with Kiri Te Kanawa and Jose Carreras, conducted by Bernstein, is absolutely fascinating because the project turned into such a tremendous debacle. It took me a while to find it complete on YouTube, but here it is!

r487 I've already addressed your pitiful arguments, repeatedly. You just keep ignoring them because you desperately need to cling to the idea of 'white roles for white people'. Similar to how you cling to the idea that as long as you didn't say those exact words it absolves you of effectively saying the same thing. And yes, an unwillingness to consider other arguments is one of the hallmarks of a racist.

Since some people here continue to willfully ignore all the admonitions to cease with their back-and-forth bickering, it's now clear they don't give a fuck about anyone else and they're only interested in arrogantly pursuing their agenda. Calling on everyone to FF/ignore them. This is beyond ridiculous, even for DL.

Well, it has just been announced that Anika Noni Rose and Aisha Jackson will be playing the Sherwood sisters in WONDERFUL TOWN, but since I've moved on from the color-blind casting discussion, I'll just leave that info here with no further comment.

Commercially, this casting makes absolutely no sense to me.

And I ‘m afraid it puts me in mind of how awful Anika Noni Rose was as Maggie in the all-black “Cat on a Hot Tin Roof,” which was the worst production of the play I’ve ever seen.

Speaking of Ain't Misbehavin', when are they going to dim some lights for Ken Page?

While I have misgivings about Good Night, and Good Luck, I do think the retro-style Playbill looks nice.

You link did not work for me, r498. Here is the link to the show's website.

Isn’t Anika Noni Rose petite and “cute”? Ruth is supposed to be gangly and not necessarily attractive. This sounds like awful casting. If Leslie Jones could sing she would have been great,

Annie Joe Edwards and Nell Carter were best friends growing up together in Birmingham, Alabama. They went to New York together to make it and auditioned for Ain't Misbehavin. Nell was cast. Annie was her understudy and took over the part later in the run. Annie was also in the original London cast.

I guess we're in the stage of casting anyone for any role - whether they're physically or vocally right. Whatever.

[quote]A happy homosexual on DL?

I want to see "The Happy Homemaker - The Musical."

Geez Louise, r488/r475, for someone so intent on schooling me in my reading comprehension, you need some assistance in writing a an understandable DL post. I put an "r" in front of your post numbers. This way you will get a notice that I am responding to you, and any poster who cares (probably none but me, r478, and now r504) can reference your posts. Now here's how to properly attribute a quote:

[quote]Also in the cast was Eric Riley, who, along with Annie Joe Edwards, was also [sic] in the original cast of AIN'T MISBEHAVING. I said 'unless they were understudies.' Please learn to read before commenting on other people's post [sic].

I did that by typing [ quote ] with no spaces, then copying and pasting your text that I wanted to quote after it, also with no spaces. You didn't even bother to use traditional quote punctuation, so your quote of mine above gives the impression that only you are typing, so your post is incomprehensible.

[quote]Also the way it is written it gives the impression they WERE in the original cast. He should have said they were standbys for the original cast they were not IN it.

Wrong again, r488! Standbys who were *cast* for the original production *were* original cast members. Even if that weren't true (but it is), I do know for a fact that Annie Joe Edwards went on at least once for Nell Carter in the first year, so she did perform "IN" the show. I have offered this thread several links and additional info on Annie Joe Edwards, a little-known but beloved performer who died this week, and as such is worthy of at least a brief conversation. You have contributed that you saw the original AIN'T MISBEHAVIN' many times, but since you never saw ER and AJE, they couldn't be cast members, unless they were understudies - but in the same post you say they were standbys and as such, can't be cast members.

tl:dr? What r501 said...and now I'm bowing out of our pedantic if educational conversation, and taking r494's advice and F&F-ing every poster on both sides of the theatrical race wars.

I leave you with a boot of Legends! r458, this is for you. It's a flawed play, but a must-see historical document for fans of Annie Joe Edwards, Carol Channing, Mary Martin, James Kirkwood, and hell, let's throw a little love Eric Riley's way, too. I was right. He strips to Aretha's R-E-S-P-E-C-T, starting at 50:00. All three ladies are good sports, and Annie Joe Edwards throws herself into it with fearless abandon. She ends the number with an astounding full split.

[quote]Isn’t Anika Noni Rose petite and “cute”? Ruth is supposed to be gangly and not necessarily attractive. This sounds like awful casting.

Yes, and also, Anika has never, as far as I know, demonstrated the kind of brassy stage personality and facility with comic timing that are essential for Ruth. Anika has been wonderful in some things, but this does indeed sound like epic miscasting. Maybe she will really surprise us?

Playbill?

I wonder how many choices turned down the Wonderful Town leads before they chose these two. Stars they ain't.

Don’t know if this was mentioned (I’ve blocked so many people in this thread) but Eric Riley passed away in January, so Annie-Joe really was the last woman standing from the cast of “Legends”.

Annie-Joe also played Venus in Woody's Bullets Over Broadway and her scenes with Jennifer Tilly were hilarious.

[quote]I wonder how many choices turned down the Wonderful Town leads before they chose these two. Stars they ain't.

Heather Headley would have been a better pick, but Broadway ran her off.

R504 you are wrong but why bother with you. It's like saying if Osterwald went on for Channing when she went on vacation she was in the original cast of Dolly which everyone and their grandmother would think is idiotic. Like if Stickney went on for Ryan in Pippen she would be considered in the original cast. I don't think so. What I wrote was clear so there would be a space for you in an adult english remediation class in a community college somewhere if they didn't think you were hopeless which is definitely the case.

Bibi Osterwald wasn't in the OBC of Dolly because JoAnne Worley was the original standby and Bibi replaced her.

I saw the Legends! tour when it played Chicago, I think it was the Schubert.

It was like watching two stars wait around on the stage for a script to arrive. It never did.

The only memorable thing was when they sang Accentuate The Positive.

Surely it must be clear by this point that the squabbling twosome is really just one person "arguing" with himself. Which is really kind of a loony thing to do .

[quote]I think it was the Schubert.

Oh, dear....

To paraphrase ALL ABOUT EVEN: That's a novel theory, R514. A stupid one, but novel.

Of course, there's a fairly simple way to determine that what you claim is not true, but I guess you haven't learned it.

^^^ ALL ABOUT EVE

R513, Chicago had no Schubert theater. You've never been to Chicago! That was a stupid lie and easy to expose.

Someone must have named a theatre after me? I am legendary!

Patti LuPone is reprising Matters of the Heart next year at Carnegie Hall.

Is A Life In Notes flopping?

R391. Back to Company for a moment. I thought the recent revivial with the gender switch for Bobby/Bobbie was brilliant. We did see it in London, but most or all of the cast did eventually transfer to NY post Covid.

Anyway, I disagree that the the marriage issue isn't au courant. Perhaps more so for younger gays than, today, for younger heteros. Some of my younger (mid-late twenties) gay male friends are very into coupling up and settling down. (In the 1970s at the same age, I had no interest in much except for fucking almost any guy I could hook up with.) In that sense, the plot of Company may in fact work better with a same-sex couple than an opposite sex couple.

I was cast in a production of The Gin Game opposite Annie Joe a few years ago. Unfortunately, it was scheduled for May 2020 and never happened and she wasn't up to it when things normalized.

r521, Patti LuPone was the only actor from the London COMPANY to transfer to Broadway. And for my money, the NY cast was far better than the London cast (with the possible exception of Jonathan Bailey).

Who's the idiot who says Chicago had no Shubert? It was there for decades. A Chorus Line played there. ANNIE played there. They're Playing Our Song played there. Working tried out there. The Act (Shine it on!) tried out there....

When the Nederlanders bought it, they've sold off the name to a series of banks...It's' now the CIBC.

Please google before you post something really stupid.

It's a joke, R524. It's a steal from All About Eve, only in the movie a lie Eve tells is that there's a Shubert Theatre in San Francisco.

Titus Burgess will be Broadway’s next First Lady when he assumes the role of Mary Todd Lincoln in OH, MARY!

Also, humorless dipshit at r524, of course there's a Shubert theater in Chicago, but there isn't a SCHUBERT theater.

You can believe that if you want R521, but in the recent COMPANY, Bobbie was NOT gay, she was a heterosexual woman. So I don't see how your post applies.

Did anyone else see "Footsteps on the Ceiling" at the New Haven Shubert?

Is it as good as "Aged In Wood"?

Where's my Sarah Siddons award?

It got "lost," Miss Harrington--honest! After I placed it on the trunk!

r524 is too short for that gesture.

Speaking of Patti, I just ran across this clip online -- 2006 Tonys flashback:

Tina & Idina have a real turkey on their hands. How does Landau keep getting hired?!

[quote]Legends toured for a year, never made it to Broadway. It was a camp fest.

If only it had been a campfest. It wasn't. I reviewed it on press night in Boston. It was just dreary from start to finish. I felt sorry for Carol Channing and Mary Martin, but especially for Martin. Channing would go on to do "Hello, Dolly!" one more time.

Eve, you can put that Sarah Siddons Award where your heart ought to be.

Wendy Wasserstein's review of James Kirkwood's book about LEGENDS on the road was far too kind to his play. Reading his book, you can't help but see that his script was the worst aspect of the production, something the two stars and the self-deluded playwright could never overcome. It really made me question how much he actually contributed to the CHORUS LINE libretto.

But do read the book if you can get a hold of it. It's a hoot.

There are cheap copies available on Amazon.

[quote]Also, humorless dipshit at [R524], of course there's a Shubert theater in Chicago, but there isn't a SCHUBERT theater.

Well, there SHOULD have been!

[quote]It really made me question how much he actually contributed to the CHORUS LINE libretto.

I had the same reaction, Although of course, Kirkwood's book ABOUT the disaster of LEGENDS is very well written and quite hilarious, even though the play itself is a turd. So that plus A CHORUS LINE indicates Kirkwood must have had some talent but, for whaever reason, it apparently deserted him when he was writing LEGENDS.

You have a point - an idiotic one - but a point nonetheless.

Redwood sounded like a piece of shit out of town. Who in their right mind invests money is a sure-fire bomb?

It's going to be interesting reading tonight's reviews.

I remember how DL's resident loon, Matt, used to brag how easy it was for him to switch between accounts to hide who he was. No, he didn't have to use different computers. His problem was that there were certain things he always said or did that he didn't bother hiding between "changes."

Fun bit from the new Lorne Michaels biography-

He had arranged house seats for his Broadway show Mean Girls for his friend Margaret Trudeau. He was displeased to find out one of the leads would not be on for that night’s performance. He said “Her dog ate glue so she had to rush it to a hospital. It’s a millenial thing. If it was Patti LuPone’s dog it’d be dead.”

Kirkwood could easily have written some quips or jokes and still be eligible for Chorus Line credit. And let's face it, the book of the show is just adequate . It was the score and staging that made it a hit. (Didn't Neil Simon supply some jokes, uncredited?)

Good points, R547. Given that the book of A CHORUS LINE was largely based on the dancers' own stories, plus the fact that the book is co-credited to Kirkwood and Nicholas Dante, PLUS the fact that it's common knowledge that Neil Simon did indeed supply some uncredited jokes, it's possible that Kirkwood contributed very little to earn his credit. And also, as you noted, the book as it stands is just adequate overall -- much better than adequate in some sections, not very good at all in others.

From what I heard, Nick Dante got that credit for the Paul monologue, which was his life.

The lines aren’t all great, but the construction of the book is something both savvy and artistically satisfying. There is almost no action, but the momentum is constant to the end. Maybe not at the level of genius shown in Shucked or The Notebook, but what is?

Tryphena Wade will be on for Audra the afternoon of the 22nd.

And the crowd goes wild.

And the crowd goes to Chipotle.

I'm guessing that Bennett himself had a lot to do with the structure.

I’m guessing the structure is still the book of A Chorus Line, whomever conceived it.

On ATC it's reported that Tryphena is on for Audra on the 22nd AND the 23rd as Audra is on bereavement leave to attend her father in law's funeral services.

I'm sure some caftan swaddled bitter Betties on here will find a way to make this about Audra's supposed poor commitment to her performance (right after they finish their lecture on how white actors should be able to do Raisin in the Sun now that Audra's done Gypsy...)

R556. So far, you're the only one to bring up Audra's commitment to Gypsy. It's been 2 hours since the first post about her absence and no one has trashed her. But keep stirring that pot.

R557 / Bitter Betty-

I mean, you may end up being right, but if past is prologue, the Audra-haters will be ready to pounce the second there's any indication she may miss a single performance.

(Also, it's either been 'Primetime' on here or there was a To Tell The Truth marathon on the Game Show Network because the thread has been pretty slow-moving today.)

[quote]You have a point - an idiotic one - but a point nonetheless.

Drop the "nonetheless" and you'll have the exact quote.

I never miss a Tryphena musical.

And I can’t wait for someone to refer to her on the night of the 22nd as Tryharda.

Deadline on Redwood:

"An intimate tale, emotionally generous in message if familiar in narrative. And it really does look amazing. ... The score calls for a lot of belting — too much belting, actually — and there are few better than (Idina) Menzel.

Menzel’s go-for-broke commitment is rewarded by a score full of big ballads for those powerhouse vocals and enough space to accommodate her quieter, supple approach.

Redwood, though, ultimately is just a shade too thin in its storytelling imagination, hitting the familiar dramatic beats we’ve come to expect through countless grief and recovery stories."

Variety's turn:

"It’s a show tailor-made to the star’s strengths as an actress, a vocalist, and a defier of gravity as here she scales, swings and sings from the heights.

(The redwood) is perhaps the most impressive replica of natural splendor on stage since Ming Cho Lee’s design for the play “K2.”

In her musical theater bow, composer Kate Diaz helps in making us see the forest from the tree. Her songs and underscoring are of a singular, reflective piece, with rich melodies and evocative arrangements and orchestrations — though the lyrics lean toward the generic.

The show rises or falls on whether the audience is carried along — or even cares about — Jesse’s private journey of salvation. Menzel’s stunning performance, in all its variant colors and shades, gives them good grounds. So is this comforting call to nature."

Jesse Green gave it a Critic's Pick at the Times.

"Features two great stars. One is an awe-inspiring force of nature. The other is a tree.

The tree that Landau and her designers have put onstage is among the most beautiful and wondrous theatrical creations I can recall.

Whenever its book drifts into familiar tropes of the genre, the songs pull it back to its wild and unsettled heart. Diaz’s rangy, propulsive music has immediate curb appeal but with a scary, questing quality that provides the necessary big endings without pat resolutions — a combination that hits Menzel’s sweet spot over and over."

Jesse should be fired for that review. The show is claptrap and everyone knows it.

A catharsis in Cinerama.

I got cheap tickets to Redwood (something like $72 for orchestra). I’ll watch paint dry on Bway for that price nowadays

[quote]On ATC it's reported that Tryphena is on for Audra on the 22nd AND the 23rd as Audra is on bereavement leave to attend her father in law's funeral services.

Today is February 13, why would the man's funeral services not be taking place until the 22nd and 23rd?

It happens, r567. My dad died two years ago today and his service wasn’t until the 23rd. He was 81, so there wasn’t as much rush and wanted to give the remaining people a chance to travel.

[quote] It really made me question how much he actually contributed to the CHORUS LINE libretto.

[quote]I had the same reaction, Although of course, Kirkwood's book ABOUT the disaster of LEGENDS is very well written and quite hilarious, even though the play itself is a turd. So that plus A CHORUS LINE indicates Kirkwood must have had some talent but, for whatever reason, it apparently deserted him when he was writing LEGENDS.

You'll get no argument from me that Legends! was a flawed play, but I still think it's an interesting historical document. It was full of tired tropes and easy laughs. I agree that it was beneath Mary Martin's dignity, r536, especially given that she struggled so hard to remember her lines. She was right to leave the show after her character's reveal of suffering from cancer was cut. Carol Channing, on the other hand, seemed to be having the time of her life.

I also freely admit that the A Chorus Line libretto was a weak one - but sometimes a writer has only one good book (or play) in them, r541. Seems a little churlish to diminish his contributions to A Chorus Line posthumously, without any palpable reason to do so.

I mean, Kirkwood was a nice guy. Matthew Lombardo he ain't.

YMMV

Both flawed and neither aged well, but I also liked PS: Your Cat is Dead and There Must Be a Pony. PSYCID had a very short Broadway run, featuring Sal Mineo as Vito. It had a longer run later at Circle in the Square with Zeljko Ivanek in the role.

`Yours truly,

r474

Here's the movie version of PSYCID, starring DL fave Elizabeth Taylor.

Whoops! The link above in r569 is, of course, There Must Be a Pony, with Elizabeth Taylor and Robert Wagner.

ACRONYMS are not your friend, r569.

With less than 30 posts left in this thread, I think we should choose the next title. How's this?

THEATRE GOSSIP #583: The "Operation: Pointless Bitchery" Edition

New York Magazine..."Build a tower on a foundation of schmaltz, and the thing starts to sink as soon as you breathe on it wrong. "

Thanks, R568. I guess I was thrown off by the use of the phrase "funeral services." If that post had said "memorial service," I wouldn't have questioned it.

Similar situation with Devil Wears Prada in London. Sadly, Vanessa's mother passed away and audiences were alerted a week in advance that she would be out for several performances. The fact that she was able to perform while her mother was ill and immediately after she passed away says alot about her professionalism.

[quote]Seems a little churlish to diminish his contributions to A Chorus Line posthumously, without any palpable reason to do so.

I think there's a difference between "diminishing" Kirkwood's contributions to ACL and wondering how much he actually contributed. The latter is what people are doing here, and I'm sure none of us knows the answer for certain.

So Jesse Green must be feeling very alone this morning. He was the only critic who gave REDWOOD a thumbs up, and most of the other "smart" critics either dismissed it or panned it. Following his raves for other flops, his impact is pretty much zero.

Isherwood pans it: "Nevertheless, many might prefer a visit to one of the country’s natural history museums that offer similarly spectacular and immersive video experiences—minus the clanking dialogue and creaking mechanics of “Redwood.”"

I have seen REDWOOD. After having read Jesse Green's review, I believe he got some kind of payment. There is no way that you can write positively about that dreck.

R569-Sal Mineo was never in the Broadway production of PS Your cat Is Dead. The stars were Keir Dullea and Tony Musante.

[quote]ACRONYMS are not your friend, [R569]. —The ALL CAPS Troll

Aww, I liked that one, r571 - plus I was getting tired of typing PS Your Cat Is Dead. I'm sure everyone is tired of reading it.

[quote] I think there's a difference between "diminishing" Kirkwood's contributions to ACL and wondering how much he actually contributed. The latter is what people are doing here, and I'm sure none of us knows the answer for certain.

It was starting to feel a little like piling on by multiple posters, r576, but point taken.

[quote][R569]-Sal Mineo was never in the Broadway production of PS Your cat Is Dead. The stars were Keir Dullea and Tony Musante.

Yes, I fucked that one up, r580, thanks for the correction. Mineo was in the San Francisco production.

[quote]"Build a tower on a foundation of schmaltz, and the thing starts to sink as soon as you breathe on it wrong. "

Ouch!

[quote](The redwood) is perhaps the most impressive replica of natural splendor on stage since Ming Cho Lee’s design for the play “K2.” - Variety

Not on the same level, but I enjoyed the trees in Come From Away, which were shipped to Broadway from Newfoundland. They kept sprouting thriughout the first year of production.

[quote]Redwood sounded like a piece of shit out of town. Who in their right mind invests money is a sure-fire bomb?

The fictional Max Bialystock?

[quote] I enjoyed the trees in Come From Away, which were shipped to Broadway from Newfoundland. They kept sprouting thriughout the first year of production.

And then they died?

But did that Adele Dazeem bitch plant her OWN tree?

Funny you should mention that, r582. Of course those trees were dead from the minute they were cut down, but they live on today, in a way. Cast and crew members were successfully able to root many of those shoots. All these years later, many are still thriving all over North America. Several are in NYC.

This is the reprise of Darkness and Trees from Come From Away. In it, a true story is recounted in which a terrified African couple refuse to get off the bus after being taken off the plane. They have no idea what has happened or where they are, only that "there are soldiers everywhere". The bus driver asks to see the bible the wife is holding, and though he doesn't know the language it is printed in, he knows his bible chapter and verse. He points to Philippians 4:6 - "Be anxious for nothing", and

"That's how we started speaking the same language".

They used bible verses to communicate until they got a translator. Clunky, but better than nothing.

R528. Of course, the gender switch is for Bobby to be female. The same sex couple with the wedding are friends of hers. Female Bobbi is of course hetero. Do you know the plot and characters?

Yes, R585, I know the plot and characters of both versions of COMPANY very well, but the way R521's post was confusingly worded, with its reference to "same-sex couples," I thought it made it sound like Bobbie was reconceived as a lesbian rather than a straight woman. And if the post was referring to the gay couple in the "Getting Married Today" scene, that's confusing because, of course, that couple is the focus of only that one scene and not the entire show.

You were the only one confused by that post, and that's just because you wanted to be a cunt for no reason.

"you wanted to be a cunt for no reason"

which is the best reason of all

[quote]"you wanted to be a cunt for no reason"

Isn't that the new masthead for DL?

The London cast of Company was clearly superior.

[quote]You were the only one confused by that post, and that's just because you wanted to be a cunt for no reason.

Ah, I can only aspire to be a cunt, whereas you were obviously born that way :-)

[quote] "you wanted to be a cunt for no reason" Isn't that the new masthead for DL?

It could be the header for the next thread! Only 10 posts to go.

Trump Tariff Battle Darkens Broadway’s ‘Operation Mincemeat’ Marquee, Lights Stuck In China:

Fuck you even MORE DJT.

The new thread!

Oh, and Happy Valentine's Day, you miserable old cunts! And I say that with love.

Closing ...

this ...

thread out ...

BAJOUR!