THEATRE GOSSIP #581: The Congestion Pricing Edition!

Here's the previous thread.

Tony nominations come out in a couple of months. There is always a huge snub. Who will be this years?

I think Hilty will be snubbed.

I love a new thread with a fresh new start. No bickering over things that can't be proved, please.

Better title:

THEATRE/GOSSIP: A Thread

Nice idea, R2! For a while, I thought Nicole Scherzinger was going to be this year's surprise snub, but now I'm leaning towards Jonathan Groff.

The men in GLENGARRY GLEN ROSS have traditionally been nominated in the featured category, but something's telling me the producers are going to try for either Culkin or Odenkirk as a lead.

As of right now, based on opening night billing and administration committe rulings, there are eight men who would qualify for a Best Actor in a Play nomination, followed by six women for Best Actress in a Play, five men for Best Actor in a Musical, and seven women for Best Actress in a Musical.

BEST ACTOR IN A PLAY:

Troy Kittles, Home

Cole Escola, Oh, Mary!

Peter Friedman, Job

Robert Downey Jr., McNeal

Daniel Dae Kim, Yellow Face

Jim Parsons, Our Town

Peter Gallagher, Left on Tenth

Kit Connor, Romeo + Juliet

I like Geoff but I’d never go to show just because he’s in it

BEST ACTRESS IN A PLAY:

Sydney Lemmon, Job

Mia Farrow, The Roommate

Patti LuPone, The Roommate

Laura Donnelly, The Hills of California

Julianna Margulies, Left on Tenth

Rachel Zegler, Romeo + Juliet

BEST ACTOR IN A MUSICAL:

Tom Francis, Sunset Boulevard

James Monroe Iglehart, A Wonderful World

Darren Criss, Maybe Happy Ending

Grey Henson, Elf

John Gallagher Jr., Swept Away

BEST ACTRESS IN A MUSICAL:

Sutton Foster, Once Upon a Mattress

Nicole Scherzinger, Sunset Boulevard

Helen J. Shen, Maybe Happy Ending

Katie Brayben, Tammy Faye

Megan Hilty, Death Becomes Her

Jennifer Simard, Death Becomes Her

Audra McDonald, Gypsy

From the last thread:

[quote]C+ Actor....gurl, are you off your meds?

Sadly, I think he is. And when that happens, be very afraid....

I wouldn't be surprised if Jim Parsons gets a Tony nom, just because of his celebrity. But if he wins, I give up, because his performance in OUR TOWN was one of the worst I've ever seen.

Must have missed 2018s Boys in the Band

R15, I actually liked him a lot in that, 100s of times better than whatever the hell he was trying to do in OUR TOWN.

There’s still Glengarry Glen Ross, Clooney, Sarah Snook, Idina Menzel, Boop, Dead Outlaw, Buena Vista Social Club, and more. I thought Parsons was adequate (I survived his Man of No Importance performance), but he will be forgotten in the spring.

I predict Farrow and LuPone will also be long forgotten.

Gotta say those Best Actor/Actress nominees as of now are pathetic.

Shouldn't Jessica Hecht be in the mix or would she be considered Supporting?

Denzel, Jake and Clooney and Sarah Snook will brighten up the Actor categories, Sarah Snook no doubt.

Everyone in Eureka Day is considered featured, as they all had below the title billing and no leeway from the admin. committee.

Did the producers of EUREKA DAY petition for any of the actors to be nominated in the lead category? The two obvious choices are Jessica Hecht and Bill irwin.

Eureka Day is over-rated. I saw it last week and thought it was just mildly funny. Smart but just mildly funny. Critics are desperate to anoint something special and these days it ain't easy.

Eureka Day was under-rated, actually. A funny, smart play about a current topic that isn't gender identity, family grievance or racial tension? It felt like a miracle to me.

The reason Left on Tenth hasn't lowered their prices is they have a major star, and you never discount a star. You may not sell a star, but you don't discount.

Another vote for Eureka Day. It felt like catharsis for the last four of five years.

I don't think the cast of Job will make the cut.

I'm hoping that Ana Gasteyer doesn't get forgotten as a featured actress nominee for Once Upon a Mattress.

Would be surprised if Jeremy Jordan doesn’t become a front runner for Floyd Collins. He’s been overlooked and voters may feel it’s time for him. If he and the show are good of course.

Michael Urie got great notices in Mattress, and I think he'll get a nomination. But in Lead Actor or Featured?

Michael would be up for featured actor. Again, he was billed below the title on opening night, and the admin. committee didn't grant an exception.

R12, it’s January, and if you were my date, I’d kick you out of my apartment for premature prognostication.

I GUARANTEE Jasmine Amy Rogers and Robyn Hurder will be nominated. Katie Brayben? Are you fucking high? Wouldn’t be surprised if even Sutton were overlooked. Very unsurprising performance. Nothing special.

We're only just started the later half of the season where there's a huge glut of openings, especially in April with 12 shows.

Is Dead Outlaw any good? Buena Vista Social Club? Real Women Have Curves?

Has anyone heard about what changes - if any - are being made to Boop?

Cuz it was a fucking mess in Chicago last year - although the lead is very good.

Are there obvious trainwrecks on the Broadway horizon? Boop and SMASH seem likely to crash and burn. The Penzance reboot with Jinkx and David Hyde Pierce seems like it could be a mess...it sounds like some cheap, community theater project.

Groff's Bobby Darin thing looks....not that promising.

About Daniel Radcliffe—beyond the role of Harry Potter, I think some genuine affection is generated when someone has grown up before your eyes if, as in this case, they seem to have turned out well.

I thought Sutton was terrific in Mattress. After being spectacularly miscast in Music Man and Sweeney Todd, it was nice to see her do something that was in her wheelhouse.

Groff is a sexless milquetoast. Darin had hetero swagger.

R31- I think R12 was just listing from what has already opened. Calm down. There is a lot of new stuff coming. We know.

Groff can definitely do hetero swagger.

R35 If you are lucky enough to get an iconic role in a hugely beloved film/TV show that sticks to you for life, for good and bad. If it's something so huge that it's a name brand kind of thing, then you're always going to be THAT star.

Well, at least until you die. Or, all your fans have died. And, once in awhile, you can go on past that if you're iconic enough.

Radcliffe IS Harry Potter one of the hugest brands in the world. Jonathan Groff is a talented actor with some great credits and has had a fine career but...he's not a brand.

I think the reaction to Groff as Darin will have less to do with his "star power" and more to do with the performance himself. And there I think he'll fall short. for those who know what a dynamic performer Darin was. Groff is good, but not Darin good.

Well, Groff is just so different from Darin in every way. And I don't think we've ever really seen Groff break out of his white bread charm. Even Jeremy Jordan would have been more apt casting. Andy Karl might have been great when he was younger.

In spite of the play's title and Denzel's billing, Iago is a bigger role than Othello. It would be hard to justify if both he and Jake are not nominated in the lead position for a Tony, should either of them be deserving. And since Kenny (faster, faster!) Leon is directing, who knows what will happen?

R36 her performance was good because she finally separated from her husband and was free to publicly do cartwheels into High Jackman’s chest!

[quote]Eureka Day is over-rated. I saw it last week and thought it was just mildly funny. Smart but just mildly funny. Critics are desperate to anoint something special and these days it ain't easy.

You are entitled to your vast-minority opinion. But I think the truth here is that YOU are desperate to make people think you have better taste than everyone else by putting down a show that has been pretty much universally praised.

Yeah, I was just naming who is eligible, not who I think will be nominated.

[quote]Are there obvious trainwrecks on the Broadway horizon? Boop and SMASH seem likely to crash and burn.

I expect BOOP will be a tremendous flop even if it turns out to be a great show, because....who is the audience for this? I suppose it MIGHT run for a while if it gets absolutely phenomenal reviews, but even that seems doubtful to me.

And yes, I think prospects for SMASH are also very poor, for different reasons.

Well, we did have an example of Groff breaking out of his "white bread charm" when he did a version of the Darin show at YMHA a few years back. Of course, the new take has a different book, more characters, and Alex Timbers at the helm, but Groff showed his stuff for 90 or so minutes. It was a very good singer doing the catalogue of Darin hits, but at least for me it lacked the original's cocky, pugnacious, charismatic persona. It's possible that no one will care—who's Darin to most people these days?—and will just come for the Groffsauce. We'll see.

I agree, R48, it will be very interesting to see how the Bobby Darin show -- which has a TERRIBLE title -- goes over. The 92Y show was a huge hit for its few performances, because of Groff's presence, and he was very well received in it, but it didn't seem to me that he was actually playing Darin in that show. This new version sounds very different in that way.

Who is playing Connie Francis?

R50-Julie Halston

I'm hoping The Last Five Years is completely ignored come Tony time.

Why, R52?

r39=Lea Michele

R50 - Joy Woods

Megan and Jennifer both out of DBH again today. Isabella Rossellini saw the show last night.

Christ is ANYONE in a show anymore?

Do the gays get as sexually aroused when they are discussing Tony nominations as the straights get when they are discussing possible Super Bowl matchups?

YES.

NO.

R46, thank you for clarifying.

I hope they have a good understudy for Nick Jonas. He's beyond terrible.

Song sucks too.

I think that's a great song from THE LAST FIVE YEARS, and I have no problem with the way Nick Jonas sings it. Yes, he has more "pop" mannerisms that some of the guys who've recorded this previously, but I wouldn't say they harm the song.

Even though I know the words to the song, I couldn't understand what Nick Jonas was singing. Also is he trying to do Jewish by way of Southern accent?

Two Connies?

3 Connies - Francis, Stevens and Ford.

This upthread chatter about all the raves for the 92Y Booby Darin show. Wasn't it just a revue without much of a book? Was it actually reviewed?

Or is this based on Wayman Wong's musings over on ATC?

The Last Five Years is the theatrical equivalent of watching white paint dry.

[quote]3 Connies - Francis, Stevens and Ford.

Who???

R68, I don't know if the 92Y version of the Bobby Darin show with Groff was reviewed by any major outlets, but it was reviewed very positively. Here's one:

And here's another. But as both you and I have noted, the 92Y version of the Darin show was more of a revue than a bio-musical, and Groff wasn't so much "playing" Darin in that one.

Bobby Darin is a hard sell. His fanbase is over 65. He was a big star but not really for a very long period of time and he never reached Elvis levels. Even with rave reviews, this might be tough to sell to the tourists.

Only plus side: there are some awesome songs.

Downside: that title is terrible.

If it gets meh reviews but still manages to run for awhile because of Groff, then he moves up the ladder.

[quote]If it gets meh reviews but still manages to run for awhile because of Groff, then he moves up the ladder.

Groffs position on the ladder was discussed at length in the previous thread.

AS r73 so astutely notes, there is almost no Bobby Darin fan base anymore and most potential audiences will barely recognize, let alone fondly remember, his hit songs, at least by their titles.

I'm a huge Darin fan so I'd like to see this show succeed but I have my doubts. Frankly, I don't think it'd be that difficult to find a young performer who somewhat resembled him physically and could achieve the Darin sound. But I get it. The producers think Groff is the name that could sell it.

I wonder how familiar director Alex Timbers really is with the subject matter.

R50 Gracie Lawrence as the great Connie Francis.

[quote]Downside: that title is terrible.

Yes, truly terrible, though for the life of me I can't think of a good, snappy title for a Bobby Darin bio-musical. I don't think "Mack the Knife" would quite cut it, pardon the pun.

[quote]There is almost no Bobby Darin fan base anymore and most potential audiences will barely recognize, let alone fondly remember, his hit songs, at least by their titles.

Of course, you're right. The whole concept of this show seems fatally flawed. I guess the producers are backing it because it sold out with Groff at the 92Y, but to repeat, that was only for a few performances -- I think four or five at most.

Well, Artificial Flowers gets to return to Broadway from where it began.

Personally, I’ve been dreaming my entire life of someday hearing “Splish Splash” sung live on stage.

I'm curious to know how much more of Darin's real life—his discovery that his mother was really his aunt, his dicky heart that led to a premature death, his tortured marriage to Sandra Dee, his freak-out over the death of JFK, etc.—will figure into the show. They've added two solid book writers, and the list of good songs is a long one. So who knows? It's a triumph for JG if it works.

While I like Groff, his stage presence is often so pallid. He was at his best in Hamilton but that was the writing, not him so much.

I don’t know anything about Bobby Darin, and honestly I don’t care. I just want to avoid being bored by Groff

So I went to SUNSET BLVD. tonight. Amazing. But, I thought of DL when an usher said “Welcome to the James!” LOL. Remember the debate about that?

Groff seems like too needy of a performer to capture Darin’s laid back charms.

I guess they can't call it BEYOND THE SEA because it would hearken back to the dreadful movie Kevin Spacey made about Bobby Darin. Remember what a hit that was?

Actually, I think SPLISH-SPLASH; The Bobby Darin Musical could sell some tickets, just out of curiosity to the XYZ generations.

Who cares about Bobby Darin or Jonathan Groff? Who is asking for this show? And at 300/ticket no less

Amazing how Groff has suddenly become a major Broadway star according to DL after he was in a show written by.......Sondheim. Had he been in anything else, no one would be talking about him.

Is the train medley in the first or second act?

"And here he is - Bobby Darin!"

Sandra Dee; "Your toupee is crooked."

And Bobby Darin was Lucy's favorite singer.....his live album "Bobby Darin at the Copa" was always on her six foot long stereo!

[quote]I think SPLISH-SPLASH; The Bobby Darin Musical could sell some tickets, just out of curiosity to the XYZ generations.

Good for you, R84. I think that's about the best title they could have come up with, given that they would want to avoid using BEYOND THE SEA because of the Spacey association.

[quote]Actually, I think SPLISH-SPLASH; The Bobby Darin Musical could sell some tickets

Directed by Michael “Golden Showers” Arden!

The title "Just in Time" sounds like it's opening right before the Tony cutoff.

The title is awful. I have buyers remorse

Why ever is it called JUST IN TIME? Isn't that a Styne/Comden/Green song from BELLS ARE RINGING? Did Bobby ever sing it? It certainly wasn't one of his hits.

[quote]Isn't that a Styne/Comden/Green song from BELLS ARE RINGING?

Yes.

The title "Just In Time" makes me wonder what a Judy Holiday biomusical would be like.

[quote]Why ever is it called JUST IN TIME? Isn't that a Styne/Comden/Green song from BELLS ARE RINGING? Did Bobby ever sing it? It certainly wasn't one of his hits.

Yes, Bobby recorded it, but you're right that it wasn't one of his hits. The pop singer who had a pretty big hit with that song was Tony Bennett.

What's compelling enough about Judy Holliday to warrant a biomusical, r95?

The Red Scare?

If I'm not mistaken, the only two spring productions that still need to reveal significant casting beyond their marquee stars are John Proctor is the Villain and Good Night, and Good Luck. (I know that Real Women Have Curves still has a male role to cast). I've looked up Proctor and see that it does have a supporting cast. Good Night is the question mark. Would George Clooney dare to do a one-man show?

[quote]The Red Scare?

She was hardly the only person to be pulled into that, r98. And she didn't up being blacklisted.

Will people sitting in the first three rows of "Splish Splash: The Bobby Darin Musical" receive salive ponchos to protect themselves from the onslaught of Groff Spittle?

[quote]Bobby Darin is a hard sell. His fanbase is over 65.

I'm surprised that the Louis Armstrong musical is still running. I would think that a Bobby Darin musical would do better than that, especially with a bigger star as lead.

Stay off that rickety bridge!

And I think just to correct an earlier poster - Bobby grew up thinking that his mother was his sister and his grandmother was his mother......

That's also the Jack Nicholson story. And, maybe Richard Pryor, too?

It apparently happens a lot.

[quote]Will people sitting in the first three rows of "Splish Splash: The Bobby Darin Musical" receive salive ponchos to protect themselves from the onslaught of Groff Spittle?

Ha! It wasn't till you posted this that I realized SPLISH-SPLASH would also have been an appropriate title for this show because of Jonathan's admitted saliva issues :-)

Americans are so small minded that you can bet "Real Women Have Curves" and "Buena Vista Social Club" will be constantly confused.

[quote]It apparently happens a lot.

It happened to that generation a lot. Since the Pill and abortion, not so much.

'Course, that's all about to change...

[quote]that still need to reveal significant casting beyond their marquee stars are John Proctor is the Villain.

Oh God, that sounds like insufferably "woke" fan fiction.

R19, Speaking of Denzel and Jake:

Am I the only one shocked to see "Othello" ticket prices from $750 to over $1000?!

I last saw Denzel in "Julius Caesar," but that was 20 years ago when I know I didn't pay close to $200, and met him afterwards as a freebie!

"If someone makes a mistake, massively disproportionate retribution is perfectly justified."

"A hysterical crowd mindlessly obeying someone consciously spouting lies=salt-of-the-earth Americans."

American credo, 2025. Cop that, Miller, you busybody.

R73, "Never reached Elvis levels"? NS, SHERLOCK! NOBODY DID! And Bobby died at only 37!

Yes, if one is going to make a Broadway show or a movie about a performer popular in the 50s and/or 60s, or even somewhat later (like the new Led Zeppelin documentary), then the built-in fan base will be similarly old.

But hey---surely (DCMS) there's a Kardashian drama or Bieber musical just ready for new fans.

Bobby Darin died more than 51 years ago, four years before Elvis croaked, so anyone old enough to remember him isn't exactly going to be younger than springtime. Groff's show will have to stand on its own merits. I don't see it drawing much of a nostalgia crowd.

But they will look 15 years younger than springtime.

R109, have you looked at Broadway pricing? Try The Outsiders to see how they price a hit these days, then look at Dead Outlaw to see how they price a small musical with no stars.

People are buying tickets much closer to curtain. Producers are charging a premium to those who want or need to plan in advance, and then using various discount mechanisms if those tickets don’t sell. With Othello, they know they can sell a lot of tickets at that price.

Years ago I was a script reader for an ICM agent. Someone submitted a one-person play abut Judy Holliday. She had an interesting life (there are two so-so biographies) as she hopped between Broadway and Hollywood, had a longtime affair with Gerry Mulligan, tried to play Laurette Taylor, onstage, and died far too young. But the play wasn't good and there would be a real challenge for an actor to capture her particular magic.

R114, I'm pretty sure I grasp the concept of "what the market will bear."

Asking those prices is one thing. I'm surprised anyone is paying them, that's all.

Having seen, as I said, Denzel as Brutus, plus Ralph Fiennes as Hamlet and Patrick Stewart as Macbeth, I can forgo an "Othello" ticket at this time.

R115. Andrea Burns played Judy off broadway

R116, The average household income for Bway goers is $270,000. There are tons of very wealthy people who either buy these tickets themselves or their companies buy them (like companies buy staff business class flight seats).

Got any comps?

The Great Gatsby is going on tour. I know the Broadway version's an expensive show, but is there any way we can see if it's close to recouping?

R118, if that's the income , then they can STFU about the price of tickets.

Where do those numbers come from, r118? No one ever asked me.

R118, I think somebody is lying, because the low percentage of attendees with post-graduate degrees (40%) doesn't match with what one might think is a group of well-off professionals.

But let the rich support Broadway. My piddling pension will stay home.

r121- It's not the rich people who are complaining. They're buying the tickets. It's the poor people that aren't going because the prices are too high.

Theater was never meant to be seen by poor people.

Life was never meant to be enjoyed by poor people.

For the original production of Sunday in the Park With George, I sat center mezzanine for $12.50. For Into the Woods, first row center mezzanine for $65.

As much as I enjoyed the show, I decided Broadway was leaving me behind.

Instead, I left New York behind and haven't bothered going to the theatre since.

R127 So, you haven't attended theater in 40 years.

You sound cheap.

I am cheap. I don't really have a choice.

You can be poor and still not be cheap.

I'm very poor and still manage to see theater.

It's just no longer a priority. That's why I read all about it here, on our beloved Datalounge.

[quote] It's the poor people that aren't going because the prices are too high.

And yet they find the money for concerts and sporting events.

The prices keep increasing for a variety of reasons - but mainly THEATER OWNERS. The rentals are TOO EXPENSIVE. And the producers are often the theater owners. Conflict of interest?

How Maybe Happy Ending Became the Surprise Hit of the Broadway Season:

Even if you have money, you’d have to have a lot more interest or disposable income than $270,000 to see much in a season. Tickets have gone up substantially - nearly double the price post pandemic for shows that feel a couple notches below pre pandemic quality. I go to about many shows as before, but will get less than ideal seats and will often go alone. $350 a ticket used to be a splurge, now it’s the norm.

If you can afford to live in NYC and you don't have kids, then you should be able to afford tickets to a few Broadway shows a year. Just eating out a few less times a month pays for a ticket.

I wanted to see the national tour of Kimberly Akimbo here in San Francisco. Until I saw the ticket prices. I don't remember now what they were exactly, but I believe they wanted close to $200 for an orchestra seat. The Some Like It Hot tour is here now, and a Saturday night orchestra seat will run you $240; fortunately, I have no interest in that unless Marilyn, Jack and Tony all rise from the grave. There was a recent SF Symphony concert I was interested in, and the top price was over $300. I *can* afford it, but, yeah, no.

Welcome to the theatre...

I paid $22.50 to see my first Broadway show, the original production of Michael Bennett’s Dreamgirls, in its 2nd year.

Funny thing, though, r128; theater was great "even" back then.

1972: I went to the original "Jesus Christ Superstar." Ben Vereen, Yvonne Elliman. Tickets about $15.

Do cities where touring companies perform offer lotteries, rush , discount tickets, etc.?

[Even if you have money, you’d have to have a lot more interest or disposable income than $270,000 to see much in a season.]

Oh MARY, R135, WHAT are you talking about???

Yes, prices have gone up. AND I get offers for new Broadway shows in previews--plays around $100 for orchestra. If you're really invested in seeing a particular show, I suppose you could spend a couple hundred or $300. I never have. I'm also not a musicals queen.

But a salary of $270 K? I guess it depends on your rent/mortgage and your interests, but, say, 6 shows in a year should range at most $1,200-$1,400.

Producers are squarely focused on tourist dollars. Tourists are most like to pay whatever to see a Bway show while they’re visiting.

New Yorkers have to scramble to get discounts by checking special offers on specific websites. Gone are the days that producers wanted to build a strong N.Y. audience.

This is also why the trend is to bring in big movie stars. Tourists will pay for movie stars

When I can't afford to pay for a ticket, then and only then will I care about how expensive it is.

I make $500K a year and wouldn't pay 10 cents to see any of the dreck on Broadway today. Yes, I was a NY theater Queen and used to see everything. I laugh when I walk to work in the morning and I see all the theater kids, mostly middle aged outcasts, standing outside the theaters freezing to death waiting for the rush tickets with notebooks and easy chairs and all excited. Get a job and buy a real ticket bitches. So sad. The producers just want your money and couldn't give 2 shits about you.

Bunches on here need to take their meds...Your lack of knowledge on pricing, ticketing and how it all works its laughable. Hey, all you folks who like to tell us they paid $15, $22 back in the "good old days..." Have you ever done a basic CPI time/value on those prices? The $15 dollar JCS ticket in 1972 cited above is $115.18 today. Grow up and learn math kids...

Most of Bway is utter shit nowadays.

Gypsy was amazing but I don’t need to see yet another fucking Gypsy

[Quote] The $15 dollar JCS ticket in 1972 cited above is $115.18 today.

Which doesn’t explain today’s $400 ticket

Every week, Play bill reports the grosses, including the average ticket price paid, and the average is nowhere near $400. Except for a handful of shows, most of the tickets hover around 100 bucks.

Go look at any show right now Most of the tickets hover around &175 to $350. TKTS, rush, and lotteries are why the average is lower.

All shite.

R143-Which is why Broadway producers can suck my asshole.

[quote]I make $500K a year and wouldn't pay 10 cents to see any of the dreck on Broadway today.

Oh, stop it. While there certainly is a lot of dreck on Broadway today, there is also still a considerable number of good and great shows. One way to look at it is: The fact that there is quite bit of dreck on the boards makes it easy to avoid seeing those shows without missing anything good, and to instead spend one's money on good tickets for the good or great shows. P.S., the best shows are certainly not always the most expensive, for example, MAYBE HAPPY ENDING and EUREKA DAY.

Your comment was very stupid.

[Quote] Every week, Play bill reports the grosses, including the average ticket price paid, and the average is nowhere near $400. Except for a handful of shows, most of the tickets hover around 100 bucks.

The orchestra seat price is the standard used

[quote]Which doesn’t explain today’s $400 ticket

Today's $400 ticket is due to "dynamic pricing" and the realization by producers that, if people were going to pay huge amounts to scalpers for hot tickets, the producers themselves might as well get some of that money -- which is certainly preferable to it going to scalpers, who profit off of hit shows they had nothing to do with creating.

But, except in a case where someone wants to see a particular huge, hit show on a particular day, with no flexibility, there is NO REASON to pay anywhere near $400 per ticket.

If that JSC ticket was in the balcony -- and probably was -- then the orchestra would be $300-$400. How stupid are you? It's called math.

Well, no, the JCS $15 ticket in 1972 may well have been for a seat in the orchestra. But the point still stands that, NOT COUNTING "premium tickets," the prices for Broadway show tix today are not as outrageous as many people paint them to be, and certainly not when compared with other live entertainment at sports events.

[quote] This is also why the trend is to bring in big movie stars.

That "trend," as you call it, R143, has been going on for decades. Wake up, Rip van Winkle.

Where to begin with Miss R145--first bragging about how much money she supposedly makes, and then laughing at young people in line for rush tix--calling them sad? Bitch, they're young AND YOU'RE NOT! And the $10 or $20 they spend are hardly making producers, yuou dumb old cunt! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

R158, it has ramped up more currently

*they spend are hardly making producers rich

It has always been, R160.

R145, no one gives two shits about you, either.

Most producers/investors lose massive amounts on Broadway. If they're lucky enough to make some, good for them. The Cameron/ALW era is over.

So Rudin is producing next season?

I'm fortunate to be financially comfortable and can afford front row seats to Back to the Future. I wish everyone could afford the joys of Broadway.

Can we move on beyond ticket prices? Soooo boring.

r145 = retarded troll

Idina Menzel is on tomorrow's episode of Sunday Morning and Monday's episode of Today. Monday's a good day for musicals fans, because there's also a performance from Sunset Boulevard on Stephen Colbert and one from Death Becomes Her on Jimmy Fallon. Elsewhere, James Monroe Iglehart is performing on Wednesday's Sherri, and Sadie Sink will be on Thursday's Fallon, presumably plugging John Proctor is the Villain.

[Quote] Most producers/investors lose massive amounts on Broadway.

I think this is BS peddled by producers themselves to make you accept their crazy pricing. No one invests in area when they know they will lose money

Not gossip, really, but Lucy DeVito's baby daddy is Eli Gelb. She wanted a baby and among her actor friends chose him. Why is the question.

I should add that I know two other women who've slept with Gelb, one who said little about it, the other of whom went on at great length. Apparently he has a magic cock.

Thank you, Talk Show Troll R169. Hmm. I wonder what's being performed from Sunset. Presumably one of Norma's big numbers.

R172 - it wasn't until seeing your signature that I realized you weren't talking about PETER Gelb's... magic flute.

I forgot, Shailene Woodley (in her last week on Broadway) will also be on Monday's Tonight Show. The battle of the musicals took up most of my attention.

[quote]Most producers/investors lose massive amounts on Broadway.

[quote]I think this is BS peddled by producers themselves to make you accept their crazy pricing. No one invests in area when they know they will lose money

They don't "know they will lose money." The producers who are in it for the money, rather than the prestige, hedge their bets and try to pick properties that WILL make money, but the fact is that a very large percentage of shows still fail to recoup their investments, let alone make a profit. Are you really going to argue with any of this?

[quote] it wasn't until seeing your signature that I realized you weren't talking about PETER Gelb's... magic flute.

lol no, R173. I was referring to this guy, who looks like a Jewish pimp.

R176 - Oh I know who he is. He was great in Stereophonic, though, I have to say, that picture at R176 is very flattering. He's actually much more... slubbish in person. But, yeah, apparently, a total pussyhound and good at it, too!

R177, he has a bit of a self-deprecating thing that draws women to him, but one found him sleazy, self-centered, and dense [insert joke about all actors here].

And the other said he was just a really good, enthusiastic fuck partner--very oral. They even did anal. They did everything. But she's a big ol' whore, anyway, so that made sense.

I'm sorry to see that one or more persons who are obsessed with the sex life of Eli Gelb -- of all freaking people -- are continuing their obsession in this thread.

It beats talk about ticket prices, R179.

[Quote] They don't "know they will lose money." The producers who are in it for the money, rather than the prestige, hedge their bets and try to pick properties that WILL make money, but the fact is that a very large percentage of shows still fail to recoup their investments, let alone make a profit. Are you really going to argue with any of this?

Producers aren’t stupid fools who live on hope and a prayer. If the industry is truly a constant money loser, few are going to invest in it. There’s more to recouping than just the box office or else investors would dry up quickly.

A comparison is movies. No matter what the box office does, there are so many mechanisms to make profits—selling of rights to other countries, to streaming, to Blu-Rays, etc

There are about 30 producers on any given Broadway production--and I'm not even talking big musicals.

Do producers of the original production get royalties from tours, international productions, licensing, etc?

OP, do you start every one of these threads? And do you contribute posts? I think OP deserves a round of applause!

I go to almost every show I want to. Rush, Lottery, Balcony seats (bought at box office to avoid fees), papering services. In the last year, I've only paid more than $100 per ticket once. For less than $100, I've seen Here We Are, Sweeney Todd, Back to the Future, Sunset Blvd, Merrily We Roll Along, The Great Gatsby, The Hills of California, Back to the Future, Audra Gypsy, Radio City Christmas Spectacular and Stereophonic just off the top of my head.

[quote] Stereophonic just off the top of my head.

Stereophonic? Head?

R145- Fuck you. Like you said, they're enjoying waiting for rush seats. And maybe they do have a job.

R145 is just some cunting cunt, cunting.

[Quote] I go to almost every show I want to. Rush, Lottery, Balcony seats (bought at box office to avoid fees), papering services. In the last year, I've only paid more than $100 per ticket once.

Tourists don’t do all that. The natives have to jump through hoops

The natives can also buy tickets at the theatre, on TeleCharge, etc.

Hey, enough with this ticket talk. Any ladies here?

Is that silly queen going to actually win for OH, MARY!?

r190- if you are a native, DO NOT BUY TICKETS ON THE INTERNET (i.e.Telecharge, Today Tix, Seat Geek). You save $10-15 ticket fees if you buy your tickets at the box office. And some shows, give you a benefit if you belong to a certain bank. Radio City Christmas Spectacular gives a substantial discount if you use a Chase debit/credit card. Do a little research before buying tickets to shows. They don't have to cost as much as you think.

[quote] You save $10-15 ticket fees if you buy your tickets at the box office.

I've never been charged a service fee at the box office, R193. was that a typo?

Sorry, R193, I misread what you wrote.

Well, I'm always free.

Damn, R194, you sure did. Even though what was written was 100 percent crystal clear, right in the sentence you quoted.

And I acknowledged I misread it, R197. Calm down.

[quote]I go to almost every show I want to. Rush, Lottery, Balcony seats (bought at box office to avoid fees), papering services. In the last year, I've only paid more than $100 per ticket once. For less than $100, I've seen Here We Are, Sweeney Todd, Back to the Future, Sunset Blvd, Merrily We Roll Along, The Great Gatsby, The Hills of California, Back to the Future, Audra Gypsy, Radio City Christmas Spectacular and Stereophonic just off the top of my head.

Yes, but in fairness, that's because you obviously live in the city and have great flexibility as to attending shows on very short notice. I myself paid only $99 for a ticket to see Lea Michele in FUNNY GIRL at the height of that show's popularity with her, and less than that to see another basically sold-out hit show just before Christmas, but you and I are lucky in that we don't have to plan ahead. People who don't live here and DO have to plan far ahead are usually the ones who are trapped into paying high amounts for tickets.

Don't know if any of you know who Jamie de Roy is but she seems to be one of those ubiquitous wealthy New Yorkers (never the lead producer, maybe sometimes just a big investor) who invests in several Broadway shows every single season and seems to have money to burn.

She shows up a lot in those opening night red carpet photos. I don't mean to sound critical of her, I'm not. She's no doubt a big theatre fan. But she seems able to enjoy the investing more for the sport of it than the profit. Though I'm sure the profit when it comes doesn't hurt and probably just balances out the losses.

r197 = Judgmental Judy

[quote] Don't know if any of you know who Jamie de Roy is but she seems to be one of those ubiquitous wealthy New Yorkers

Is she available?

[quote]She seems able to enjoy the investing more for the sport of it than the profit. Though I'm sure the profit when it comes doesn't hurt and probably just balances out the losses.

I suspect you're absolutely right about that. And, of course, people who are EXTREMELY wealthy can afford to do that with no problem.

Real producers make money.

Those long lists of "producers" you see for B'way shows are investors. Or, in the case of certain famous names, "publicists for the show".

On legit B'way productions, it's very much a crap shoot if you're going to break even or make a profit on your investment but losses are usually tax write-offs so no one is going to the poor house. Once in awhile, they can hit a jackpot by investing in a "Hamilton" or "Come From Away".

R201, come on! Someone here read the sentence "You save $10-15 ticket fees if you buy your tickets at the box office" and responded with "I've never been charged a service fee at the box office, was that a typo?"

That's got to indicate a very special form of reading disability.

So, R205, you not only continue to criticize after the person acknowledged their mistake, but now you're also mocking people with reading disabilities? You are indeed a Judgmental Judy.

That isn't your only judgmental post, r205. How nice that you've never misread a post.

[quote]Is that silly queen going to actually win for OH, MARY!?

I hope so!

r199- Lotteries are a day in advance and anyone can do a Rush. If you get there early enough, you will guarantee yourself heavily discounted tickets. And even if you want to plan months in advance, if you are willing to sit in the balcony, there are tickets anywhere from $49-$79 up there, even for the biggest hits.

As to movie stars on Broadway ...

I often read old movie and theater reviews in TimesMachine (an outstanding benefit of a Times subscription); perusing the theater ABCs provides endless fascination and joy, and guess what: tons of movie stars appearing in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and beyond. Some just starting their careers, some at their height, and many others post-movie stardom. But there they are, in the flesh for all to enjoy.

Homely homosexual gadfly Alex Levy pretends to be a producer but is merely a glorified investor. Like so many others.

I know Jaime very well R200 and she is not using her own money to invest in these shows. Most people like her have an "Investor Group', a circle of friends or business associates that she turns to pool funds to invest in a show. The industry is full of them. By the way, Jaime is a wonderful person.

[quote] By the way, Jaime is a wonderful person.

Just ask her!

Yes, r146, Boomers know about inflation. It's just harmless indulgence in nostalgia, so untwist yer knickers.

And as for math: Today's "$115.18" is nowhere near the $921 Orchestra for "Othello."

r146- If only the top prices were $116 nowadays. By the way, it's not just the 70s. My first Broadway show was a $20 ticket at TKTS in 1992.

R200, Jamie DeRoy came into SOME of her money when her uncle was killed by a barbell that was knocked off of DL favorite Arlene Francis’ terrace (by her housekeeper, although some people think Arlene was the real culprit). A multimillion dollar settlement, and I think the uncle didn’t have children, so Jamie ended up with a bundle of it.

It's A Wonderful World closing end of February.

I dunno....I think this number deserved a bit more applause...

I wonder what's next for Studio 54?

Sarava.

I Love My Wife

New home of the Kenley Players Repertory Company .

Melania Trump starring in revival of I Am My Own Wife.

Again, learn how math works. $20 at the booth means it was discounted half price, so it was a $40 ticket...

[Quote] And even if you want to plan months in advance, if you are willing to sit in the balcony, there are tickets anywhere from $49-$79 up there, even for the biggest hits.

Poor people to the back of the bus.

"Hello, poor people!" said the Emcee waving to the balcony in Roundabout's Cabaret at Studio 54.

[quote]I know Jaime very well [R200]

Apparently, not quite well enough to spell her name correctly. She's a woman, not a Hispanic guy.

[quote]"Hello, poor people!" said the Emcee waving to the balcony in Roundabout's Cabaret at Studio 54.

An old Dame Edna joke. She also called them her "Mizzies," short for "Les Miserables."

.. and used by Bette Midler at her concerts...............

And the OG and much better:

Harry Belafonte, too.

That CBS Sunday Morning feature on Idina and REDWOOD looked dreadful. That show will only be for the diehardest Idina fans.

R232, the information that has been released thus far about the plot of the show is sparse but not very promising.

Poor Idina. If /Then was a mess but still made more sense than a show about a tree climbing lesbian!

Redwood just looks and sounds so fucking pretentious.

R235, it sure sounds like it COULD be pretentious and insufferable, but again, very little on it so far. We'll have to wait and see what we get :-)

Get ready all you haters. Saw GYPSY last night. Audra is monumental. A brilliant performance, held us all in rapt attention. Now I get why Patti hasn't come to see it. She knows she's been left in the dust. Amazing.

Mary Bowland left the original production of the Cole Porter/Moss Hart musical Jubilee to return to Hollywood. Today mostly known for The Women(L'amour!)she was a big star. The show had to close soon after.

[quote]r238 = Mary Bowland

Oh dear.

Sorry, Boland.

Mary Boweland would have been even more amusing.

WHET Robert Dahdah?

Looks like Tina Landau has dropped another musical turd on Broadway. Why, God Why, does this horrible director get work?

[quote]I tons of movie stars appearing in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and beyond. Some just starting their careers, some at their height, and many others post-movie stardom. But there they are, in the flesh for all to enjoy.

You bet your ass we did! And I showed PLENTY of flesh!

R32: The only thing with Dead Outlaw is it might be too weird for some audiences. Also, the Longacre is a fairly big theater and I think the production might benefit from a smaller venue.

R62, why are they shown singing into microphones as if in a recording studio?

As a side note when I saw the original production of Promises, Promises I had of course listened to the obc first many times. So imagine my surprise when I saw the show with the second cast and A Fact Can Be a Beautiful thing instead of fading out turned into another terrific Michael Bennett number. I wished the obc kept in the dance music. So I just got the London production original cast recording with Betty and Tony(who I saw on Broadway) and the song fades out just as in the obc. However as a bonus you get the delightful Italian cast version of the song(I wouldn't mind the entire recording if it exists) which does include the dance music. Nice. It might be on the most recent revival recording but I haven't heard it.

How did Mary Boland's name come into the mix on this thread? Did I miss something?

r233, if you caught the segment on REDWOOD on CBS Sunday Morning there was lots of info on the show, including plot points, hardly sparse. Hence, my dire prediction.

R218 - that was great! I'd never heard of Ride The Cyclone. Sounds like an interesting concept. And that music was more interesting and sophisticated than a lot of stuff that gets produced on Broadway these days. Where was this production?

[quote][R62], why are they shown singing into microphones as if in a recording studio?

Umm, I'm guessing because that's footage from the recording of the cast album? Or if not the cast album, some promo material they recorded in a studio. Does that seem strange to you?

R246, I think maybe one reason why the dance music for that number isn't included on either the Broadway or London cast albums of PROMISES, PROMISES is because everyone involved thought of those recordings more as pop albums than cast albums of a musical. Sort of like the cast recordings of PIPPIN, DREAMGIRLS, and several other shows.

Thanks, R248. I did not catch that segment on TV, and I believe you :-)

Why hasn't the Queen of Versailles announced anything yet? Weren't they planning on a 2025 opening?

Queen of Versailles is leaning towards summer or fall 2025. I suspect that they're next in line for the Palace after Glengarry Glen Ross.

I saw a production of RIDE THE CYCLONE at the McCarter Theater in Princeton a few years ago, just as we were coming out of Covid and theaters were reopening.

I thought it was pretty awful. Inept and mawkish and boring. But admittedly, that might have been more about the production and the direction than the writing and music.

Has anyone heard anything about a new Richard Linklater film called BLUE MOON starring Andrew Scott as composer Richard Rodgers and Ethan Hawke as lyricist Lorenz Hart? Apparently, it takes place mostly on the night that OKLAHOMA! opened on Broadway in 1943.

Can't find out much else except Margaret Qualley is the female lead. Sounds interesting!

R253, the QOV creatives are having a writer’s retreat at producer Bill Damaschke’s house in Rancho Mirage this very weekend. Saw a photo of them all dining (Stephen Schwartz, Michael Arden, the producers, and Kristin) on IG!

I think they’re looking to trim 35 minutes from it (which it needs; the 3 hour running time in Boston was a slog).

R256, Blue Moon, which is set entirely in NYC, was shot entirely in Ireland last summer. Therefore whoever made the decision to shoot over there can go fuck themselves. I realize this was no doubt for financial reasons/tax breaks/cheaper labor costs but still.

So gay Andrew Scott is playing straight Richard Rodgers and straight Ethan Hawke portrays gay Lorenz Hart?

[quote] a new Richard Linklater film called BLUE MOON starring Andrew Scott as composer Richard Rodgers

According to this article, Scott is playing Oscar Hammerstein. I assume Cannavale is playing Rodgers.

Well, gay Tom Drake played straight Richard Rodgers and straight Mickey Rooney played gay (although not ever alluded to in the movie) Larry Hart.

Bobby Cannivale, IMO, has drunk from the same Fountain of Youth as has Paul Rudd.

Cross-thread post: Bobby is another Broadway actor in "Law and Order." S13, E6: "Hitman."

Mea culpa: "Cannavale."

R254, I saw VERSAILLES in previews and it was horrendous. I am so curious if it'll actually come to B'way...

I guess Bobby Cannavale should know what he's talking about but the IMDb credits for BLUE MOON list an actor named Simon Delaney as playing Oscar Hammerstein II, Ethan Hawke playing Lorenz Hart and Andrew Scott playing Richard Rodgers.

Cannavale and Margaret Qualley are listed in the cast, but IMDb doesn't say who they're playing.

How mysterious!

The new film of LONG DAY'S JOURNEY INTO NIGHT starring Jessica Lange and Ed Harris was also filmed in Ireland (I think 2 summers ago) and is finally opening at the end of February.

I guess Ireland is the cheap place to film these days.

I believe Ireland has great tax breaks for filming.

I saw this show ("Falling For Make Believe") about Larry Hart a more than a decade ago. It was basically a biographical jukebox musical. It was worth it for the music alone. Not sure if it's performed anywhere on a regular basis.

[Quote] Umm, I'm guessing because that's footage from the recording of the cast album?

Cast albums don’t get recorded before shows even open

I bought tickets to Redwood. I haven’t seen Menzel in a while. Plus the presale tickets were cheap. The orchestra tickets I bought were $79

[quote]Cannavale and Margaret Qualley are listed in the cast, but IMDb doesn't say who they're playing.

Cannavale is Alfred Drake and Qualley is Joan Roberts

Ethen Hawke couldn't look less like Larry Hart.

The good news is that they are working on fixing Versailles. The bad news is it's unfixable. Its central character is a horrifying cipher and narcissist and even Chenoweth can't make us care about this nightmare of a human. It was a painful night in Boston. The comparisons to Mama Rose are way off. Rose is a monster, but she does want a better life for her kids -- however misguided. Jackie Siegel is an empty headed, self-absorbed Marie Antoinette who cares about no one but herself. And they act like we're supposed to have faith in her journey, and it's so, so empty. The score wasn't Schwartz's best either.

There'a about 6 barely living people who know what Larry Hart looked like so they're pretty safe from getting too much flack..

We're not encouraged to like Jackie, are we? That doesn't always go so well.

Idina's interview gave the impression that she knew this one was dicey...

Idina Menses!

R273, I think the bigger problem is that people are going equate the Siegels with another couple. Older man who’s a crooked real estate mogul, and his younger, large breasted, self-involved wife who live in a gaudy home in Florida. I think all the conspicuous consumption makes it very dicey. And the fact that the Siegels are DJT supporters.

Hell, they give out the “David Siegel Award” (Lee Greenwood won it two years ago😳) every year at Mar-a-Lago! Not sure that’s going to fly with a majority of theatre goers.

Has Stephen Schwartz had any other Bway show after Wicked??

He had Pippin and Godspell before Wicked.

Shocking thing I just learned: Stephen Schwartz has never earned a competitive Tony!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?

I mean, I'm not a huge fan of his but....really?

Pippin, Godspell and Wicked are three major musicals.

Catch up, r281. He lost to Avenue Q. And other scores of his- Children of Eden, The Baker’s Wife- didn’t make it to Broadway. He has 3 Oscars though.

It's a joke that the score to WICKED lost to AVENUE Q.

Doesn’t bother me. Caroline or Change was a smarter, more ambitious, and emotionally satisfying score than either.

Jamie DeRoy is nice enough but she's a rich person who's consistently trying to get free press tickets to show instead of paying for them. I find that obnoxious. If I could afford full-price tickets, I'd pay for them. She has some weird public access show that no one watches but I guess makes her "press."

Also, for anyone complaining about high ticket prices, just join TDF where Broadway shows are never more than $50-60 or less. Most shows end up there eventually.

Ethan Hawk is 5'11" and lean. Lorenz Hart was under 5 feet and somewhat stocky and extremely insecure about his looks.

Good grief.

The Ave Q score was tuneful and smart (lyrics are part of the score) and had a legitimately great song in “It’s a Fine Fine Line.”

Interesting that there wasn't a Caroline, or Change analogue here (from Avenue Q's Tonys campaign).

Pippin lost to that show called A Little Night Music.

‘Kiss Of The Spider Woman’: World Premiere Of Jennifer Lopez Musical Receives Standing Ovation At Sundance:

THR review:

Variety:

Those are pretty good reviews. I must say, I'm looking forward to Kiss.

[quote]Cast albums don’t get recorded before shows even open

You sound so sure of yourself, but you're actually showing your ignorance here, because sometimes cast albums are indeed recorded before shows open. And anyway, as I wrote in my previous post, that video could be of a recording session for the cast album OR of some other recording session for promotional audio for the show. I don't know why the poster above found it so hard to understand why the video was of the singers recording in a studio.

I love the Hollywood Reporter referring to “Lopez’s singing bona fides.” As if.

[quote]Pippin lost to that show called A Little Night Music.

Wonder which show has been produced more since...

If Cary Grant could play Cole Porter and Robert Walker could play Jerome Kern I guess Ethan Hawk could play Lorenz Hart. Though If Hart looked like Hawk he would have had lots of greats sex and women feeding his ego and would not having ended up catching pneumonia in a gutter. He'd be too busy screwing hot chorus boys. And would never have written Blue Moon pretty much contradicting the whole point of the ending of the relationship.

R296 Both shows are classic American stage musicals. They both get produced a lot.

R283 Frankly, Avenue Q is a charming show. It has terrific songs and a clever, witty book.

Wicked has great design and it's a fun big show for people who love big loud shows but its book is clunky and the songs, even the "hits" are shrieky and bombastic.

OK..."Popular" IS a fun song.

R297, I agree with most of your post, by what do you mean by Hart "would never have written Blue Moon pretty much contradicting the whole point of the ending of the relationship." The end of WHAT relationship?

Is Ethan going to walk around on his knees like Jose did in the movie Moulin Rouge?

A Little Night Music has had far more impressive star-studded revivals and concerts over the years than Pippin. And I say that as a big fan of both shows.

Stephen Schwartz's music has traditionally not been respected by colleagues, which is why he hasn't won a Tony.

Years ago, I read the great book about the history of Bway musicals called "Broadway's Greatest Musicals." In when, when talking about one of Schwartz's flops after a string of successes, the author says something like Schwartz finally got what he deserved.

That said, it's weird that Schwartz hasn't had any other Bway shows after Wicked, which was over 20 years old (I went to the last preview before the opening and can't believe 20 years have just whizzed by!). I do know he composed a forgettable opera that was premiered at the NYC Opera, which it was still around. Don't know if he's done anything else

R290, what did Lopez do to her face?

[quote]A Little Night Music has had far more impressive star-studded revivals and concerts over the years than Pippin

But, on the non-professional level, Pippin far surpasses the Sondheim show.

Casting Hawke as Hart removes one of Hart's major psychological impediments. He was dwarfish and plain and thought no one could love him. The cultural upside is that these self-destructive impulses led to some of the most bittersweet poems of love ever written.

R302, the fact that you dismiss Stephen Schwartz's opera as "forgettable" reflects the same disrespect that some other critics have shown towards his music. That opera received a number of nasty reviews from critics who apparently could not tolerate a 21st-century opera filled with traditionally beautiful melody, rather than being atonal or "minimalist" or whatever.

Indeed, R305, the casting of Ethan Hawke as Lorenz Hart seems absolutely perverse. What's next, George Clooney as Andrew Lloyd Webber?

r304, Pippin is simply an easier and cheaper show to produce in schools and community theaters. It doesn't require lavish sets and period costumes and beautiful, lush vocals. Again, I love them both.

I can well imagine with the millions Stephen Schwartz continues to make monthly on Wicked, he wouldn't feel compelled to write anything new. Not to mention Godspell which probably still brings in substantial royalties. Especially if his work has often been disdained by critics.

[quote]He had Pippin and Godspell before Wicked.

Ahem.

At least Schwartz musicals are financial successes....Sondheim? Not so much.

First look at Ethan Hawke as Lorenz Hart.

By Jove, he IS on his knees.

Why didn't Patina Miller become a bigger star?

What do you mean, r313? She had three leading roles on Broadway, was nominated for one and win the other. She had a featured role for the entire run of Madam Secretary. She’s married to a rich guy and has a child. And she’s only 40.

[quote]And she’s only 40.

This the ONLY time you will ever see "only" before "40" on Datalounge.

I dunno, r315. It was only 40 degrees last week in Miami.

[quote] [R302], the fact that you dismiss Stephen Schwartz's opera as "forgettable" reflects the same disrespect that some other critics have shown towards his music. That opera received a number of nasty reviews from critics who apparently could not tolerate a 21st-century opera filled with traditionally beautiful melody, rather than being atonal or "minimalist" or whatever.

I saw it. I forgot it.

Lots of Schwartz's shows are of their time, rather dated now.

Godspell screams 1960's and 70's.

Pippin, despite a successful revival, is slight.

I don't know much about The Magic Show but it seemed specific to Doug Henning's talents.

Only Wicked seems to be a classic. Not sure it will be constantly revived.

Queen of Versailles is up next

Patina Miller is the star of a hit STARZ series. She's doing just fine. Maybe she prefers to not do theatre for a while.

PIPPIN may be slight overall, but I think many people would judge Schwartz's score for it as far superior to his score for WICKED, for all of that show's phenomenal success.

R303 first thing I wondered too

I would've thought Andrew Scott would've been a more intuitive choice as Hart, but I guess Fleabag changed everything for him.

Wicked could run forever (and may) but how many theater historians will list it as one of the great musicals?

[quote] Cast albums don’t get recorded before shows even open

Occasionally they are. I know Beauty and the Beast was recorded before opening so Disney could have CDs in the gift shop. That’s why there’s discrepancies between the album and the finished product.

And the Midler Hello, Dolly was recorded before the show opened, much to the recording’s detriment, since the cast doesn’t sound fully committed.

I believe Newsies was also recorded before the Broadway opening so perhaps that's a Disney custom.

Wicked will be the most successful show in Broadway history. I think Schwartz's legacy is secured. He also has the most successful movie musical of all time that was just nominated for 10 Oscars.

[quote]He also has the most successful movie musical of all time

By what metric are you calling "Wicked" the most successful movie musical of all time? "The Sound of Music" also received 10 Oscar nominations, winning for Best Picture and Best Director. (Something that "Wicked" cannot do, as Jon Chu wasn't nominated.)

And adjusted for inflation, "The Sound of Music" had worldwide box office receipts of $2.5 billion. "Wicked" is currently sitting at $700 million.

Wicked is at $900 million with VOD box-office and it hasn't opened in Japan yet, and that's just part one.

And Kiss of the Spider Woman hasn't even opened yet, bitches!!!!!

TPOS recorded their cast album during the LA tryout and it was released right after the opening.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1982, “Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat” opened at the Royale Theatre.

Whenever someone types “TPOS,” I always read it as “that piece of shit.” Somewhat accurate, as it turns out.

R333. Fuck you

[quote]By what metric are you calling "Wicked" the most successful movie musical of all time? "The Sound of Music" also received 10 Oscar nominations, winning for Best Picture and Best Director.

Ahem.

I'm as big a Sondheim devotee as there is, but I unapologetically LOVE Pippin. The Schwartz score is terrific -- I think his strongest. The original Fosse staging and even the obvious Fosse influence over the revival is what takes it over the top for me. As wonderful as Schwartz's score is, I agree that, on paper, the show can feel slight. But, the show -- at least on Broadway -- was as much about the "how" as the "what"... if that makes sense. It was as much about the showmanship, the storytelling as it was about the show. And that muscular, rhythmic, tuneful Schwartz score is a perfect match for Fosse's showstopping staging.

And, I think, for that reason, BOTH Pippin and Night Music are probably challenging to get 'right' in community and regional productions. Night Music cannot 'sing' without supremely gifted comedic actors who can imbue those incredible Sondheim lyrics and Wheeler book with that wryness, that languid sense of ennui and, when called for, a sudden and unexpected deep well of emotion. It's an incredibly specific tone that few actors will get right. I forget who said this -- was it Hal Prince -- but the show was once described as "whipped cream with razor blades..."

And, with Pippin, without Fosse-caliber staging (and performers who are up to the true triple threat nature of that staging), the show probably reads as "cute" and that's it.

Well, I guess The Queen of Versailles won't be coming to the Palace.

[quote]TPOS recorded their cast album during the LA tryout and it was released right after the opening.

Thanks, and thank you to the others who have come up with SEVERAL examples of cast albums that recorded before a show opened, thereby confirming R269's ignorance.

R338, this has less to do with a cast album being recorded and more to do with trying to advertise a musical to fans of the singer but don't particularly like musicals. If you show them singing into microphones, there's less explaining to do.

The original off Bway production of Last Five Years was sort of a bore.

How are they going to fix that part?

R338, just by the fact that people found 3 examples just make them exceptions to the rule.

Smarter audiences, r340. It worked with Parade and Into the Woods.

r337 Arden is going through his mid life crisis then?

Patti endearing herself to her Disney employers - who are known to love it when talent reveals details - by revealing her show won't have a second season. And she's in the new season of Just Like That, apparently.

And r338, another example for their memory banks: OLIVER! recorded before their national tour before Broadway.

Patti LuPone is a lot like Rosie O’Donnell.

They both will leak EVERYTHING after the interviewer says “Hi, nice to meet u!”

"Hairspray" and "Spring Awakening" were recorded prior to their Broadway opening nights.

Schwartz would be financially quite comfortable without all the Wicked money he earns. Godspell is performed by family friendly theaters and schools and churches all the time. It's a cash cow. Pippin is also a popular show and you don't need a huge budget to do it...I've seen a small town community theater do a terrific job with it on a low budget but they had a good director. Wicked will obviously be popular for a long time....it's OZ and it's America's National Fairy Tale. It's beloved.

The Sondheim estate will be earning huge amounts of money until the copyrights expire. Sondheim's share of West Side Story and Gypsy alone is worth millions. Into The Woods and Sweeney Todd are hugely popular classics that theaters and schools love to do. Little Night Music is also very popular with colleges and theaters that have access to strong singers. Even the tougher to do shows like Company, Follies and Sunday in the Park are produced frequently. Despite the nutty Sondheim haters/trolls who love to lurk around these threads, Sondheim and his legacy will be strong long after they're all dead.

There would be no way that Miss Moneybags Joe Mantello was getting anything from the movie of Wicked, right? All his money for that comes from the Broadway b.o. and touring productions, right?

[quote]Wicked could run forever (and may) but how many theater historians will list it as one of the great musicals?

How many would list CATS, r323?

[quote]Years ago, I read the great book about the history of Bway musicals called "Broadway's Greatest Musicals." In when, when talking about one of Schwartz's flops after a string of successes, the author says something like Schwartz finally got what he deserved.

Yeah, and I'm old enough to remember everybody saying that about Merrily We Roll Along. Broadway just hates success, that's all that proves.

I agree with R348 that Sondheim's legacy is assured. He really was "the Shakespeare of musical theatre" in the sense that nothing was the same after him as before, and that the vocabulary of musical theatre (like the English vocabulary after WS) was vastly expanded. On top of which, nobody ever in the field can touch him for the diversity of his work OR the excellence of his lyrics.

But I do wish this thread would stop conflating popularity with excellence. Maybe that's one of the reasons you don't like Wicked. It is all about the difference between popularity/popular esteem and actual worth. Very relevant in the Time of Trump.

Ah yes, the enduring wisdom of dearest momsicle and popsicle.

R349-joe just gave a million bucks to his alma mater. What the hell has Schwartz done for charities?

[quote][R338], just by the fact that people found 3 examples just make them exceptions to the rule.

Yes, they are exceptions to the rule, but the point is that it's by no means unheard of for cast albums to be recorded before a show opens. So maybe this was one of those. It probably was, because I'm not sure the producers would have rented a studio just to shoot a video of Nick Jonas singing into a mic in a studio.

[quote] Into The Woods and Sweeney Todd are hugely popular classics that theaters and schools love to do. Little Night Music is also very popular with colleges and theaters that have access to strong singers. Even the tougher to do shows like Company, Follies and Sunday in the Park are produced frequently.

Source, r348?

It's Momsy and Popsicle, R353: however that song is full of references to both W Bush and Reagan ("the Great Communicator"). But I was thinking more of Wonderful:

WIZARD Elphaba, where I'm from, we believe all sorts of things that aren't true. We call it - "history."

A man's called a traitor - or liberator

A rich man's a thief - or philanthropist

Is one a crusader - or ruthless invader?

It's all in which label

Is able to persist

There are precious few at ease

With moral ambiguities

So we act as though they don't exist...

In a land where the January 6 rioters are now "peaceful tourists" on a "day of love" and their leader just won the popular vote, I'd have thought that might have a slight sting? But you just go on dripping condescension on Wicked till it melts.

R356, why do you doubt anything that R348 wrote, when there are multiple sources to attest that there are very frequent productions of several of Sondheim's mot popular shows at regional theaters, community theaters, colleges, etc.? Are you arguing just for the sake of being argumentative?

[quote]when there are multiple sources to attest that there are very frequent productions of several of Sondheim's mot popular shows at regional theaters, community theaters, colleges, etc.?

r358, I'm simply asking for *one* source that attests to Follies and Sunday in the Park being "frequently" produced.

r349, I would actually be shocked if moneybags Joe Mantello wasn't getting at least some small percentage of the WICKED film profits.

For the longest time his contracts for stage productions have stipulated that he receive an "authorship royalty" (my unofficial term) in addition to his director's royalties as, as he fancies, he's creating the script as much as the writer is. I'm sure some sort of fees or royalties for the film were part of his original deal to sign for the Broadway production.

It's sleazy how Miss Moneybags Mantello uses her clout to gouge vulnerable playwrights out of money and claim authorship for anything they do. What a cunt.

R361-And your proof? Or any examples?

Um, no. Mantello deserves every penny he got. He, David Cromer, and Pam MacKinnon will get me to buy a ticket to anything they direct. He also is a great actor, basically the only decent performance in that Hollywood series.

Personally, I think Mantello is worth whatever he charges. It's a shame he doesn't direct more. I'm also surprised that after his early and unsatisfactory experience directing the film of L!V!C! he hasn't come round to directing another film.

Mantello has taken a cut from new playwrights for the privilege of having directed their plays. And what about the theatre he sued for using his blocking on a play--like it's choreography.

[quote] He also is a great actor

Dear R363, you MUST be Miss Moneybags herself! He is an excellent director. He's far from a great actor. He's fine when he reigns it in.

I reign it in, posthumously.

*rein

But she is a bit of a queen, Miss Moneybags.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I thought Mantello was incredibly moving in tv adaptation of The Normal Heart. So... what % of box office could a director (with great agents/lawyers) potentially negotiate for? Apparently, globally, Wicked has grossed $5 Billion+. So if Mantello earned just 1% would that be of gross? If so, he's earned more than $50 million?

The money he makes from Wicked alone should be enough that he doesn't feel the need to take money from much less wealthy playwrights.

Joe Mantello hit me in the head with a fondue pot.

Did you owe him money, R370?

[quote]I'm simply asking for *one* source that attests to Follies and Sunday in the Park being "frequently" produced.

But the other poster didn't state that those specific shows are frequently produced. He was talking about Sondheim shows in general.

How nice, r372, how nice for us all.

I wasn't aware this was a dissertation where we need to cite sources for everything we write about it...my source would be ME who has been writing about theater for 17 years and being aware of what gets produced in my neck of the woods but also further afield in other cities up and down the west coast.

And, many theater nerds are aware you can look up where specific shows are being performed at the websites for the companies that hold the rights to the show.

I just looked up a couple...poor Pippin isn't being produced right now but A Little Night Music has 9 productions.

Thanks, R374. That idiot who keeps demanding a "source" can suck it.

I do not believe that the idiot who keeps demanding a "source" DESERVES to suck it.

The best music of Sondheim's shows is in West Side Story and Gypsy.

I said it and I'm glad.

And it's true.

And I saw all the original productions of the Sondheim/Prince musicals and they were as great as they say. And he is a God. But not quite celestial in a way that Kern, Rodgers, Porter, Berlin, Arlen, Bernstein, Gershwin and Styne are.

The obc of Pippin holds up very well.

It’s true for you, not for me! You should know better.

SUNDAY IN THE PARK has become a perennial favorite in college theater programs. Even PASSION is often produced in colleges and will be joined soon by HERE WE ARE when the rights are released.

Young directors love the intellectual challenge of these difficult pieces far more than PIPPIN and GODSPELL. However, I'd bet that if college theater programs are producing anything by Schwartz it would more likely be THE BAKER'S WIFE.

[quote]The best music of Sondheim's shows is in West Side Story and Gypsy.

Which he didn't wrote.

^^ Rose Nylund, in need of Grammar 101

R377, dude wrote Sweeney Todd (imo, his masterpiece). From the first notes, mood, tone, and scene are established.

Dude wrote A Little Night Music, the musical theatre equivalent of a deceptively simple, glorious Napoleon. Every BIT of it delicious. Each bite is savored. “Now/Later/Soon”, “Liaisons”, “A Weekend In The Country” (a musical of its own!). Perfection.

You can’t compare Sondheim to the artists you mention. They all do something different from one another (which is different than saying they’re doing the same thing differently). The business was different when Kern, Berlin, Porter, and the Gershwins got started. And, while it’s clear the Sondheim was influenced by his predecessors, he took music and lyrics to a very different place.

One isn’t better than another. But Sondheim approached it all from such a different place. “White. A blank page. Or canvas. So many possibilities.” is how he approached it all. Even beyond a canvas.

A lot of the others approached it as a blank page. How do I say what I want to say within this space — and, indeed, that’s what makes them such poets. Their ability to say so much in so little a space.

But comparing them is like comparing painters to sculptors. They’re all artists.

Mantello probably deserves every penny he gets.. Word had it that Wicked was a mess out of town. That it was pulled into shape for its Broadway debut was owed in large part to his direction. Had it closed quickly in New York, it might have faded into obscurity..

R383, are you saying he deserves every penny he can squeeze no matter what the situation? That was "Wicked," and doesn't have anything to do with other playwrights and other plays. Not sure what the motivation is of Mantello apologists here.

[quote]Word had it that Wicked was a mess out of town. That it was pulled into shape for its Broadway debut was owed in large part to his direction. Had it closed quickly in New York, it might have faded into obscurity.

Might have? I think that's a very safe bet, as in close to 100 percent cetain. What an odd way of phrasing it.

Sondheim has written some very pretty, very interesting music. But though I have been transported by his shows I have never been transported by his music in the way that I've been by the other composers I've mentioned.

I guess this will be eternally argued by musical theater lovers.

But yet my father's, who wasn't really into musicals except for the early Warner Brothers and Fred and Ginger musicals, favorite song was Send in the Clowns. He also like Long Ago and Far Away. I guess he was into wistful.

liked

[quote]Sondheim has written some very pretty, very interesting music. But though I have been transported by his shows I have never been transported by his music in the way that I've been by the other composers I've mentioned.

Maybe that's your taste, or maybe you're just not paying attention. There is lots of music in his shows that a great many people find transporting, particularly SWEENEY TODD, A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC, and FOLLIES. And though I am not a big fan of SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE overall, even that has at least two songs that are gorgeously transporting: "Sunday" and "Move On."

And my all time favorite, "Beautiful".

Kevin Kline is starring in a sitcom that seems tailor made for DLers.

But who will play Kevin's father? John Cullum's 94. George Hearn's 90. Len Cariou's 85.

Good question, R391. I haven't seen Kevin live in a while, or in a recent photo, so I don't know how he looks, but maybe the show should have been written so that this parents weren't characters....

I left out Assassins which is very heavily produced. Very popular with colleges and hipper community theaters.

[quote]and hipper community theaters

Uh-huh

Nonsense, r395. There's a strong possibility that a quick-to-close Wicked would have attracted a cadre of Oz fans who mounted it on a smaller scale and made a cult hit that would eventually find its way to Broadway. Look at MERRILY.

I would guess that Joe gets a piece of the movie. From the beginning, the plan was to make the stage show into a movie. Also- I think he makes $50 million/per YEAR. He definitely makes much more than 1%/week. I'm happy for Stephen Schwartz. He had three hits in a row in his 20s and then didn't have another one until 30 years later so I'm glad it's a good one.

[quote]I'm happy for Stephen Schwartz. He had three hits in a row in his 20s and then didn't have another one until 30 years later so I'm glad it's a good one.

Same here. Although he did pretty well writing songs for animated movies during those years, and he also wrote CHILDREN OF EDEN, which has received lots of productions. So it's not as if those 30 years were really barren for him.

Kevin is doing a sitcom? How the mighty have fallen.

I'm friends with Stephen and we went out around the time Wicked was going to head to SF. He absolutely no idea how it would be received. I still remember him telling me "It'll either be a big hit or it'll be another show like The Baker's Wife and Children of Eden where I go from regional theater to regional theater trying to fix it."

[quote] "It'll either be a big hit or it'll be another show like The Baker's Wife and Children of Eden where I go from regional theater to regional theater trying to fix it."

Don’t forget Rags, Stephen

Stephen Schwartz wrote "When You Believe."

She also wrote the lyrics to Pocohontas. His work on "Colors of the Wind" is top notch.

HE also wrote...

And of all things, he wrote for the Daytime Emmys! If he didn't watch soaps, he certainly could have fooled me.

From the article about Kline's new show:

[quote]He decides to save the town, the theater and the world by presenting a great American classic on the dinner theater stage

Where was that guy when Max and Leo needed him?

He gets a decent song here and there, even in the flops. Blame it on the Summer Night. Rags. Lost in the Wilderness. But he just exudes rough draft energy.

Really?

Really...what?

R405. How original. Didn't his washed up actor character in Soapdish do Death of a Salesman in a dinner theatre?

" For the Gaze" from " Death Becomes Her" on The Tonight Show.

Yes, and one of the Soapdish writers is involved with the series. I keep feeling like "failed actor tries again back home" is something that's been done before, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's been a busted pilot rather than an actual series.

Everybody Hates Patti

Well, yes, but what has she done this time?

[quote]I'm friends with Stephen and we went out around the time Wicked was going to head to SF.

Did his wife know?

[quote]"It'll either be a big hit or it'll be another show like The Baker's Wife and Children of Eden where I go from regional theater to regional theater trying to fix it."

That comment applies to THE BAKER'S WIFE, but I don't think it really applies to CHILDREN OF EDEN, because I don't believe there have been major rewrites to that show.

And don't forget he wrote lyrics for me, way back when, when the Kennedy Center opened with our "Mass" and I was still alive!

The OBC of Evita was recorded before it opened. In fact, it was recorded in Los Angeles, where the show did its tryout run at the Chandler.

La Cage aux Folles also recorded prior to opening in NY.

In 1948 two or three shows that were in rehearsal recorded before heading out of town, because of the impending musicians' strike.

[Quote] I'm friends with Stephen

Can you mention that his toupee looks stupid and he needs to pay for a better one

It’s not a toupe, it’s…plugs.

Thanks to R417 and others who have provided further examples of cast albums that were recorded before the shows opened, in support of my post above. I think the count is up to about 20 now. And this other promo clip for THE LAST FIVE YEARS makes it look even more obvious that these songs and the other Nick Jonas song were videoed during recording sessions for the cast album, so I hope the no-nothing who flatly stated here that "cast albums are not recorded before shows open" has learned something.

R398, he has three Tonys and an Oscar. Now he’s going for an Emmy!

r412 I wonder how long until she starts acting like a victim, as if she was somehow forced to reveal spoilers.

[quote]Did his wife know

Of course she knows. She's known for the whole 50+ years of their marriage.

Steve is very protective of her. He does not want to embarrass her. He wrote a song about one of his boyfriends, or rather, about his death. That made for some uncomfortable moments because too many people knew exactly who he was writing about (a soap star who died of AIDS).

Then why not tell us??

Kevin's show is going to be on MGM+? That's sure to attract tens of viewers.

Joe Mantello was excellent with Sally Field in The Glass Menagerie.

R425 Hi Patti! Sorry you got in trouble for leaking all that shit about Palm Roayle

Joe Mantello is worth about $100 million today just from directing half of Wicked.

[quote] I hope the no-nothing...

Oh, Dear

Wait!! Schwartz is married???! To a woman???

[quote] Joe Mantello is worth about $100 million today just from directing half of Wicked.

No, he's not

What do you mean by "half of Wicked?"

Joe has nowhere near 100 million. Schwartz, on the other hand, has much more.

How do you know, R433?

Trump said today the he is directing the opening of a detention center at Guantanamo Bay to hold up to 30,000 migrants who are living illegally in the United States and cannot be deported to their home countries.

Wrong thread, perhaps, R435? Otherwise, I would have to say, "Oh, look--another Trump thread."

Apologies, R436 (and everyone else on this thread) -- I clicked on this thread rather than the Treason thread. I have to pay more attention. Though I'd pay to see a musical comedy about Trump's deportees in Guantanamo.

[quote] I'd pay to see a musical comedy about Trump's deportees in Guantanamo.

Yes, R437, nothing screams entertainment like crying children being separated from their parents.

I was thinking more along the lines of a satirical comedy excoriating Trump and the GOP, R438, but take your shots where you can.

I'm sure the Trump musical, written by Lin-Manuel Miranda XII, will be a big hit in 2225. Most Dataloungers, however, will insist it pales in comparison to the original Follies.

r435 Insiders call it the Guan

r438 Because horrifying scenarios can never be used for entertainment

If your definition of entertainment is screaming children being ripped from their parents, R442.

I'm depressed by those clips of the Encores! Urinetown in rehearsal. The exaggerated performance style from the original production is missing, so everything seems heavy and ponderous. The presence of Keala Settle in anything is always a warning sign.

The violence suggested in Cabaret was not on-stage, R442.

r445 Exactly. You're almost there, go on, you can do it.

Almost where, dear Miss R446? You've hardly made a salient point, but keep trying, hunty.

[quote][R441] = Insiders call it the Guan

I call it the 'mo.

Why has no one ever seen Stephen Schwartz with his wife anywhere, anytime?

She lives in Canada.

Ariana DeBose is not Evita, at least not in the West End.

[quote] Ariana DeBose is not Evita, at least not in the West End.

Finally some good news.

I think R446 is referring to the Argentinian prison torture scenes in Kiss of the Spider Woman.

The Eva Peron Estate probably threatened to sue: "Madame Peron was not Afro Latino..."

"Insidious: The Live Horror Experience" bombs in Detroit!

Who cares, R453?

Plump Frau Schwartz lives in Connecticut.

[quote]I call it the 'mo.

I'm pretty sure that's what people are calling YOU.

Ain't No 'Mo.

R415, Schwartz did indeed make major changes to the score of CHILDREN OF EDEN between its London première and its American début at the Paper Mill Playhouse.

By my count (checking against ovrtur.com, linked below), 19 songs were retained from the London score (though some were tweaked).

7 songs dropped or reworked after London: • A Ring of Stones • Civilized Society • The Death of Abel • Degenerations • The Dove Song • Shipshape • The Tree of Knowledge

6 songs added at Paper Mill: • A Piece of Eight • A Ring of Stones • Father's Day • The Mark of Cain • Sailor of the Skies • What Is He Waiting For?

I'd call those significant revisions.

(Oops -- somehow I have "A Ring of Stones" on both lists! Make that 6 songs dropped after London and 5 added at Paper Mill. My original point still stands, I think.)

Which version had the freewheeling patio number?

The Vegas production, r462.

Anne in The Attic! The musical of Anne Frank.

I like Ariana DeBose but I don’t think she could sing Evita 8 performances a week. Maybe one gala performance

R465. It would probably be six a week like past Eva's.

[quote]Ariana DeBose is not Evita, at least not in the West End.

Actually, Ariana Grande would not be the world's worst idea for Evita. She certainly looks the part.

R464, she’s in the attic!

Speaking of Trump, can we talk about what a disappointment the "great" playwright Tony Kushner has been? If ever there was a time for his voice on Democracy, the economy and a crumbling economy, and instead he's re-writing "West Side Story" and the saga of Spielberg's mother. WTF? Where's Arthur Miller when we need him? Kushner became a hack.

R469, Arthur Miller wouldn't speak up on behalf of Rushdie when Rushdie had the fatwa over him, because Miller was highly worried about fear of reprisal. I think your criticism of Kushner is somewhat misplaced.

Kushner hasn't written a new play in how many years?

So, R471?

He really got in a mess with his last play. The Guthrie was premiering it as part of a series of Kushner plays, and he didn’t have a completed draft by the time rehearsals started. Angels had similar issues.

His plays really speak to me, so I think it’s a shame. I wish he would explore what happened to Joe Pitt in the Trump era.

Remember when Kushner was hyper-political? And the controversy he raised with the unfinished play that started with Laura Bush reading to dead Iraqi children.

I think Kushner has done plenty for theatre.

R474 that wouldn’t fly now. The daughter is a host on the Today show, and GWB is super popular with Gen z because of the tik toks made of his facial expressions at Trump events.

I’m not even kidding.

R474, the play was published in The Nation. It was then published and produced in “Tiny Kushner,” an evening of short plays.

He wrote one really great, epic play that landed like a bomb into the culture. Just like Miller did with "Death of a Salesman." And since then, nothing that has mattered. Maybe the screenplay to "Lincoln"?

Caroline, or Change was a great musical, R478. And one doesn't need to give the world masterpiece after masterpiece. Most people can't give the world one.

Caroline, or Change is a masterpiece but equally so because of Tesori's beautiful score.

So, that's two great works from one writer--again, more than most can achieve.

The screenplay for "Munich" was pretty good too.

what year is the Kevin Kline sitcom set?

dinner theatre satire?

Meh. He dumped theater to write meh movies for Spielberg.

I mean, he COULD do both but chooses not to.

r474 Careful, you're going to trigger r438

He can't do both at the same time, R484. And there's nothing wrong with writing movies for Spielberg.

The Laura Bush play also had her getting behind the wheel of a pickup truck and running over the Iraqi children, without consequence. It was called “Pickles Goes to the Piggly Wiggly in Ramadi”.

Carole Schwartz lives in Connecticut. She never goes to his out of town gigs. She is, unfortunately, quite ill right now.

Bill Beyers, from Santa Barbara and Capitol, was Steve's occasional boy toy. He died of AIDS at 37.

The song is called "Life Goes On."

BB

[quote] Caroline, or Change is a masterpiece but equally so because of Tesori's beautiful score.

I think it's a masterpiece too. Too bad it has never caught on with the public

Someone on ATC posted a thread recapping more details on the Kiss of the Spiderwoman film. They saw it (twice) at Sundance. Interesting read for those looking for more detail on how the film varies from the stage production.

The song Stephen Schwartz wrote about Bill Beyers.

Michael U looks good here! I've always thought he was a cutie. I've somehow never seen him on stage, but he's generally a well liked theatre actor, right? Everything he's done on TV post Ugly Betty has been such trash, but, hey, pays the mortgage, I'm sure. Shrinking is probably a step up from the Hallmark movies.

Anyone had him?

R494, thanks. That clip is fun, but I'm not sure I get it, are those two takes of the same scene with different costumes? If so, isn't it odd that someone had access to two different takes to post them?

R495 - I don't watch Shrinking, so I don't really know, but, I'm guessing that Michael Urie is relating the same story to two different people and both tellings of this story are shown split screen for comic effect?

R493, that song is lovely, but I don't get the part about "You weren't a part of my life, really. I was not a part of your life very much." Was that an accurate description of his relationship with Bill Beyers? And if so, then why did he meet with his parents after Beyers' death?

Oh, okay, he's supposed to be meeting the parents for a memorial service. I guess that explains it a little better, but interesting that he still felt he and Beyers weren't really a part of each other's lives.

Genuine question, how do y'all know all these details about Schwartz's gay relationship? Was it just common knowledge? Part of Eldergay oral histories that get passed down through the generations?

Also, did Schwartz ever visit Sondheim's dungeon?

R493, wow, those lyrics are pretty specific

OMG--Just realized that Bill Beyers was the hottie on the soap Capitol!! No idea he was gay

[quote]The song is called "Life Goes On."

Wasn't that the theme song to "Empty Nest?"

Can you imagine being Stephen Schwartz wife? First the indignity of your husband having a gay affair for years with an actor who dies of AIDs, then your husband writes a torch song about it!

Well…I’m sure the Wicked money soothes all!

[quote]Also, did Schwartz ever visit Sondheim's dungeon?

Schwartz was too old.

I mean... not in the 70s.

Dinah Manoff IS Carole Schwartz IN "My Husband Dates the Guy on My Soap."

Schwartz was banging Bob Fosse.

They were friends, but Steve lived in Connecticut and Billy lived in LA. Steve's life at the time consisted of his wife, his two young kids, and his career. When Steve was in LA, he'd stay with Billy and they'd resume their sexual relationship. Remember there was no texting, internet, or social media. It was phone calls or letters.

It must have been absolutely heartbreaking for Schwartz to lose the true love of his life

R508 holy cow

Schwartz coming for his fourth Oscar next year.

[quote]how do y'all know all these details about Schwartz's gay relationship?

Because I know Steve. I had dinner one night with him and Billy (and Craig Zadan, who's also gone now but not from AIDS.).

Sing no sad songs for Carole. She knew from the beginning that she had fallen in love with a gay man. Steve really wanted kids, and he does love Carole. That's why she never went out of town with him.

Steve & Carole are still married, but he's been in a longtime relationship with Michael McCorry Rose and it's not a secret .

[quote]Steve & Carole are still married, but he's been in a longtime relationship with Michael McCorry Rose and it's not a secret .

Apparently not:

Who is Michael Mccorry Rose's partner?

He regularly appears in concert with his long-time life partner Stephen Schwartz (Wicked, Godspell, Pippin). One of their concerts also starring Scott Coulter and Debbie Gravitte was filmed for PBS's Great American Songbook Concert Series at NJPAC and was nominated for a 2017 Regional Emmy Award.

MMR

R513 this is crazy that we never knew this before!! I blame Idina Menzel…and she knows why!

Please!! Somebody tell me why for the last couple months when I click on YouTube videos all I get is the message “please sign in to confirm you are not a bot.” I’m not a bot!! but there is no way I can see to sign in directly. I have to go to YouTube and search for the video—where it never asks me to sign in. Back to Datalounge, a few posts below, another YouTube video, click on it, “please sign in…” Is this happening to anyone else, and how did you resolve it?? Thanks.

Amazing that Michael McCorry Rose writes in his bio that Schwartz is his longtime life partner but Schwartz is still married to a woman.

I’m confused

You're easily confused, r517.

Polysexuals are in right now!

When Schwartz dies, he'll have TWO widows fighting over the will!!

I can't speak for the Schwartzes, but In the general experience of what's now called a tradwife, her husband was her boss and marriage was her job. If he had other women on the side or a second family, that was just what men did and she dealt with it and concentrated on taking care of business. If he had other men, it was in her interest if nobody found out, because if he got into trouble for it she and her children would be screwed too. And of course wives were just as useful to gay men as to straight men, for keeping house for them, having their children, entertaining friends and business clients, and helping put over the image they wanted to show the world of a clean living respectable family man. This is the wonderful world Project 2025 wants to bring back.

Finally, something juicy! I mean if it works for Stephen and Carole and Michael, more power to 'em. I wonder if they all do Thanksgiving together.

I guess Leonard Bernstein was a bit of an influence on Stephen!

R521 Ssssssh! If Bradley Cooper hears of this, he'll want to do a biopic!!!

Cult of Love got a film sale. I wonder if they'll keep any of the stage cast, or upgrade everybody.

That comment upthread about WICKED being a mess in the rehearsal hall and Joe Mantello saving it and turning it into a hit out of town...............wasn't he the director in NY who made the mess he then had to save?

Which I realize still deserves credit as there so many directors who aren't self-critical and understand how to turn things around.

I don't think Mantello 'made the mess' to start with considering the Wicked book is pretty awful. Still.

It amazes and saddens me that so many of those playwrights that wrote smart great hit plays in the 1990s like Tony Kushner, Robbie Baitz, Donald Margulies, David Auburn, Richard Greenberg and Paula Vogel produce so little now and most of their recent work is merely navel-gazing family melodrama.

There's so much to write about going on in the world now. Why isn't all that challenging them, infuriating them, inspiring them?

Cult of Love will be star-fucked HARD.

Baitz was sucked into TV rather quickly and what smart great hit did he have in the 90s? He's also kept busy as Mrs. Joe Mantello spending all that Wicked money.

Margulies is a bore. All his work is navel gazing.

Auburn and Greenberg are one hit wonders whose hits were in the early 2000s.

Vogel had a big hit with Indecent which was in 2017 and it's certainly political.

All these people are 60+ or even 70+.

Oh, r499, not just oral histories!

What's the motivation to write for the theater when it's so much easier and more lucrative to do TV and movies?

r507

Schwartz was most certainly NOT banging hetero Fosse, who found Schwartz so abrasive that he was banned from the rehearsal room!

Pretty good long interview with Schwartz from a couple of years ago.

Does he talk about having man sex in the podcast?

Nope. He does make a point of saying Fosse was his third choice to direct "Pippin" (1. Prince; 2. Bennett), and that they clashed.

What sold Pippin was sex, so I think Mr. Fosse was the best choice.

The Importance of Being Earnest | Dressing Algernon Moncreiff | National Theatre

*

So pretty. Many hours.

[quote] Margulies is a bore. All his work is navel gazing.

R528, Margulies wrote at least 3 excellent plays--Sight Unseen, The Model Apartment, and The Willy Loman Family Picnic, none of which are navel gazing. Your memory is also a little faulty: Vogel's big hit was How I Learned To Drive.

And there were other interesting playwrights other than those you mentioned.

[quote]...and what he learned from Leonard Bernstein

R532 - I think we KNOW what he learned from Leonard Bernstein!

And Bernstein's wife went through hell didn't she for his real desire for men? Or was he genuinely bi? What did she know about him at the time they got married? The end of her life was miserable.

And he needed to be married to fuel his ambitions. Dimitri Mitropoulos who was one of the world's great conductor's and was a mentor to Lenny(and possibly lover) was in line to be chief conductor of the NY Phil was betrayed by Bernstein who revealed to the board Mitropoulos was gay. I think Lenny was a wonderful conductor and composer but he was also a pretty big shit. Mitropoulos despite his greatness was a quiet man who late in the evenings by himself would haunt 42nd Street movie houses.

conductors

I didn’t know that story about Bernstein and Mitropoulos. Fascinating. Is it in that bio written by the woman who also wrote a Sondheim bio?

Donald Margulies also wrote the poignant and insightful COLLECTED STORIES, his All About Eve-ish dramedy about an older author who mentors a young student and finds her life upended. Not to mention his Pulitzer Prize winner DINNER WITH FRIENDS. Both 1990s plays have already had at least one major NY revival.

But I don't know why a playwright in their 60s or even 70s should not be writing new plays about subjects that really anger or baffle or trouble them, r528. Of course, maybe I'm mistaken. Maybe they are writing plays that nobody wants to produce because they're not good. Or because they're old white people.

Yes, I thought of both of those plays as well, R542.

Why is your scope limited to playwrights in later life? Where are the playwrights in their 30s-50s, you could also ask? Where, also, are the actors, the novelists, etc.? But I would also caution that it's not up to others to tell artists what their material should be. What are people who aren't artists doing?

And it might not be that any of those older playwrights are writing plays that aren't good, but that they are old, white people. The theatre business with regard to playwrights is that it is, indeed, a young person's game--hence, so many bad or mediocre plays that say absolutely nothing about anything.

Plays have fared better than musicals post pandemic, but most with a national profile have just been consumable fare. Thoughtful, well produced, and a good way to spend an evening. I don’t know that Edward Albee would have written an 80 minute masterpiece either.

I may be biased - I saw a local production of “Job” last night. What a mean, small minded, and artlessly constructed show.

[quote] I don’t know that Edward Albee would have written an 80 minute masterpiece either.

R544, Albee did--"Three Tall Women." Not to mention a few other masterpieces that were. considerably longer.

Ironically, r345 - that was the exact play I was thinking of in contrast to the spate of internissionless dramas. It’s great, and the revival was incredible, but it is most definitely a full-length two act play. They just cut the intermission.

It's a two-hour play with a pause because they had to adjust the set and bring in a non-speaking character.

The “pause” in productions before 2018 was 15 minutes long and called an intermission.

R547 oooh a non-speaking character!

That sounds perfect for me!

[quote] Caroline, or Change is a masterpiece but equally so because of Tesori's beautiful score....I think it's a masterpiece too. Too bad it has never caught on with the public

There is not one memorable song. There will never be a movie with a sing-a-long version with fans dressed up like washing machines.

[quote]There will never be a movie with a sing-a-long version with fans dressed up like washing machines.

Damn.

People like r550 assume that everyone is shares their level of taste. I’m trying to imagine the kind of person who thinks Lot’s Wife is not a memorable.

Caroline or Change was one of the only shows I wanted to walk out of but I do remember really liking Anika Noni Rose and I love Lot's Wife

I saw the revival a couple of years ago and LOVED it!!

Lot's wife.

That performance was not Pinkins at her best vocally, but in the theater it didn’t matter. In my view, no one had even approached her in the role.

I gladly sit through the washing machine and bus silliness to experience some of the most powerful moments in musical theater: Caroline’s pride dissolving into a plea to “murder my dreams”, Noah viciously turning on the only person he loves for twenty dollars, the two reconciling even though they “weren’t never friends.”

High School Musical

Well and she turned on him too by telling him that Jews go to hell. To say that to a child

Tonya is better here, and really giving her all.

The original production was great. Time and time again, it showed how ordinary people unwillingly function as the bricks and mortar of larger systems that hold them down. When Caroline grabbed her daughter Emmie to stop her from arguing with Mr. Stopnick, it felt almost violent. And Caroline’s resentment of black people trying to get ahead was something much rawer than you see on Broadway.

The recent revival had a lot of good performances, especially John Cariani and Caissie Levy. But it was very clear that Brits couldn’t get much deeper than the surface.

I love the double meaning—Caroline or Change—with change referring to both the literal change she took from the kid and the change in society

Oh, yeah, that’s dazzling wordplay. 👀

R537 Yes, I'm very aware of "How I Learned to Drive", thanks very much. I mentioned "Indecent" to indicate that Vogel has indeed produced a more recent hit play that was political and passionate.

It's very much different strokes for different folks. I haven't seen productions of every Donald Margulies play but the ones I have: zzzzzzz.

Has any DLer seen the (apparently) hyper-camp Importance of Being Earnest at the National in London? If so, report back! I believe it will be in cinemas as part of National Theatre Live in February (which means it probably won't show up for streaming on National Theatre At Home until next year). It looks, if possibly exhausting.

...looks *fun*...

The importance of being zippy...

r543, I can't disagree with anything you say in your post.

But I'm singling out older playwrights (in their 60s and 70s) because I think of them as having nothing to lose. They can afford (in all meanings of the word) to write whatever they please and I don't understand what stops them from taking on bigger subjects at this point in their lives/careers. The playwrights I singled out originally were heroes of mine in the 90s.

And yes, I could say that about all artists who have some control over their output and aren't financially dependent on making a decent living.

Paula Vogel just had a new play on Broadway last summer. David Auburn in 2023. John Patrick Shanley, off Broadway last year.

Now, if you don’t like these plays, maybe you have your answer. Like other artists, playwrights may have made the most bold and truthful statements they felt.

Vogel's play would have been nothing without Jessica Lange's luminous performance (which should have won her the Tony!) and I can't even remember the names of Auburn's and Shanley's plays.

Is Patina and Swenson still having an affair?

Well, if you can’t remember the names of the plays, r570, that settles it!

Say, what about Theresa Rebeck?

DEB!

BEARKING NEWS: Roma Torre pans Angels in America

Who?

Farewell tomorrow to Cult of Love, Left on Tenth (amazing it lasted this long), and Aidy Bryant, Jimmy Fallon, and Nick Kroll in All In: Comedy About Love.

Idina's plugging Redwood on Monday's Tonight Show. Kieran Culkin's on Thursday's episode, both for his Oscar nod and for Glengarry.

Colbert's Monday episode has Lin and Audra.

Nicole Scherzinger's on Tuesday's Seth Meyers. Bernadette is on Wednesday's Jimmy Kimmel.

Also, Joy Behar and Susie Essman are plugging My First Ex-Husband on Wednesday's Sherri.

R575, what a brave, searing take from one of New York's keenest critical minds.

I've heard Debra Monk is a nasty bitch.

[quote]Is Patina and Swenson still having an affair?

Oh, dear.

I love you, Talk Show Troll! Always appreciate the updates. I'm guessing this is Bernadette's first appearance on Kimmel. I think she's done Colbert and Seth Meyers. I don't think she's ever done the Tonight Show (with Jimmy.)

Bernadette did Johnny Carson, too! Hell, she probably even did Jack Paar.

Today's matinee of Redwood was cancelled, with people who were at yesterday's show saying Idina sounded sick. The evening performance tonight is supposedly still on.

Idina out of Redwood tonite. Standby going on

Wow, who would want to see the standby for a middling show. The ONLY reason anyone would want to see this is Idina

Another no-go at the Nederlander?

Or the Need, as those in the know say.

Or the Needy as the IATSE crew at Redwood are calling it now.

Ok let’s talk about actual gossip on a gossip thread. I just found from a friend that he heard from multiple sources that Stephen Schwartz gave me a blow job and I pulled off his toupee. This never happened . How did this spread? Boggles my mind. You really can’t believe everything you hear.

You can’t believe everything you hair.

Wow, r444. I just watched the rehearsal clip of “Follow Your Heart.” What happened to the comedy??? Hunter and JLT played the whole thing for laughs and it was hysterical.

Hahaha @ Miss r447 missing the Company reference and acting like a cunt about it.

Imagine, R593--missing a "Company" reference! I guess we all can't be a big musical theatre fag like you!

I heard that story about Steve Schwartz years ago. Supposedly it was either an usher at the Gershwin or a Wicked chorus boy. I never heard it with a name attached. Who are you exactly, r590?0

R552- sing it for us! I couldn’t sing it back after watching it live or on TV. It’s powerful but the tune isn’t memorable.

Someone above claims Schwartz's hair is plugs, not a toupee--but no plugs Ive seen look like that. It screams toupee to me

I am not an usher or a Wicked chorus boy but it’s probably not appropriate to identify myself but most people here probably know who I am. Esp since the gossip came from multiple sources.

John, is that you?

Here's the next thread. BAJOUR!

Heyy...before we move over to the new thread...any ladies out there wanna suck my toes?