More than 10,000 books have been banned from public and academic libraries in the US

and 20K more on the way. The whore Melania will lead the "good Christian book brigade"

Context, context, context.

What are the titles, the offending passages and what public and academic libraries?

Maybe, just maybe, some of those books deserved to be banned.

And others not.

[quote]Maybe, just maybe, some of those books deserved to be banned.

🙄

How about a book on why Jews and blacks should be killed, r4? Would you go to the mat to defend that one?

R2 wants context but then wants the offending passages…

R6 = autistic

Nah, not autistic, just someone who has been in the trenches and gets upset when a book is banned by someone who hasn’t read the book.

Readin's for sissy libtards! I wait for President Trump to tell me what's happenin' on Truth Social, like a patriotic Merican!

No one needs to read. Elon Musk will tell you everything you need to know.

It's a new world out there and the less you know, the better.

No one is banning books. So can we just stop the buullshit?

All of those books deemed unfit for a particular library are still available to anyone in bookstores or online.

Books have always, ALWAYS, come under scrutiny for school libraries. It's nothing new.

Will mistakes be made? Will there be books turned down that I feel are perfectly fine? Yes.

R11, are deliberately ignorant?

Reading library books, back to the school board is a no-no.

Turning Point USA? Really?

[Quote] All of those books deemed unfit for a particular library are still available to anyone in bookstores or online.

That’s called “banning”

Oh noes they’re banning books! the nine year old children who have already seen Japanese octopus pornography on their smartphones will be devastated!

( And you wonder why the country has veered to the right...)

But do keep going.

[quote]That’s called “banning”

No, you're wrong.

Books have always been selected/rejected for school libraries.

And the movie industry does it this way:

Quite a detailed breakdown by PEN, the association of writers, listing which books and authors are banned (including stated reasons, e.g. "violence"; race and racism; grief and death; and teen pregnancy, abortion, or sexual assault):

[quote]More than 10,000 books have been banned from public and academic libraries in the US

Wow! 10,000 books in a country of nearly 98,000 public schools alone.

The only Western country where the likes of Toni Morrison, Margaret Atwood, and the graphic novel MAUS could ever be banned (the latter, apparently, for containing the phrase "God damn" and featuring an image of a cartoon mouse naked in the bathtub).

^ You know nothing about Europe.

I can't speak about Toni Morrison but what books can be in school libraries is an issue.

This is the UK:

"In an Index survey of UK school librarians, 53% of respondents said they had been asked to remove books, with more than half of those requests coming from parents."

"Of those, 56% removed the book or books in question. Titles included This Book Is Gay, by Juno Dawson; Julián is a Mermaid, by Jessica Love; and the alphabet book ABC Pride, by Louie Stowell, Elly Barnes and Amy Phelps, as well as plenty of other titles featuring LGBT+ content."

[quote]Wow! 10,000 books in a country of nearly 98,000 public schools alone.

That's still 10,000 *individual titles* across the country singled out by ultra-conservative, often culturally illiterate parents and others, some of which are written by first-rate authors. You might shrug that off and not find it the least bit remarkable or concerning, but many of us do, particularly in the current climate.

Germany:

"There are number of adult books listed by the Federal Review Board for Media Harmful to Minors, these are not banned as such but may not be sold to minors and not advertised in public, i.e. adults only get to buy them by asking for them by name in a bookstore (in my impression adult-only bookstores aren’t really a thing in Germany)."

"Public libraries sometimes have sometimes book collections that are only accessible restrictively, i.e. you have to show a plausible cause for wanting to access them (the so-called Giftschrank or poison cupboard) - apparently mostly Nazi books."

"Lastly, some content is illegal to publish even to adults, notably depictions of sexual acts involving children, adolescents, animals or violence, Holocaust denial, and displaying the symbols of Nazi organizations. Books containing that sort of material would be banned not by name but by implication."

[quote]That's still 10,000 *individual titles* across the country singled out by ultra-conservative, often culturally illiterate parents and others, some of which are written by first-rate authors.

As well as some that should not be in libraries, and cited by intelligent and concerned parents.

R22: I grew up in the Netherlands and currently live in Ireland. I speak and read French and German. I also happen to be a U.S. citizen and care about what happens there, but I'm hardly ignorant of developments across Europe. Living in Ireland and being familiar with its formerly draconian censorship laws, I'm also well aware of the history of book banning here by the Catholic Church, both in schools and elsewhere. The situation in the UK is quite different from that in the US in that fundamentalist Christians and ultra-conservatives don't play any significant role there. The titles singled out by UK schools and libraries were done so mostly for sexual content (deemed too mature/inappropriate for children of whatever age) and gender-focused content. The article in the link concerns book banning in the USA. Gender-critical Brits always feel compelled to chime in and cite Juno Dawson and the like.

Unless you can point me to sources proving otherwise, "MAUS" would not be banned from school libraries in the UK, nor would Toni Morrison's "Beloved" or "The Bluest Eye," or Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale" (for older teenagers).

The situation in Germany also cannot be compared to that in the United States (Christian fundamentalists have little or no influence; no serious literature banned for appropriate ages; no bans for references to race or racism; no bans for references to grief, teenage pregnancy, or violence).

Was your only point to prove that school libraries in several European countries have *also* been known to ban books at times?

Other than the sex-and-gender stuff, were they banned for any of the following reasons?

44% include themes or instances of violence & physical abuse (n=385). This includes titles that have episodes of violence and/or physical abuse as a component of plot or discussion.

38% cover topics on health and wellbeing for students. This includes content on mental health, bullying, suicide, substance abuse, as well as books that discuss sexual wellbeing and puberty.

30% are books that include instances or themes of grief and death. This includes books that have a character death or a related death that is impactful to the plot or a character’s emotional arc.

30% include characters of color or discuss race and racism

24% detail sexual experiences between characters

17% of books mention teen pregnancy, abortion, or sexual assault

^

"Several schools across Barcelona are considering purging their libraries of stereotypical and sexist children’s books, after one removed around 200 titles, including Little Red Riding Hood and the story of the legend of Saint George, from its library."

That's the most Gen Z-looking situation ever pictured at OP.

One would almost think that the poster @ R2/R7/R11/R13/R17/R18/R20/R22/R24/R25/R27 was trying to deflect from the real issue of book banning in Trump's United States. Thanks for telling me, though (a Dutch-American guy in Ireland) that I "know nothing about Europe" (unlike you, who knows how to quickly Google "book banning schools UK" and "book banning schools Germany" to prove his irrelevant points).

R29 Point is: book banning exists there too.

[quote]Point is: book banning exists there too.

Yes, it exists in other countries and has, obviously, never been confined to the USA. But, as noted, not of serious (in Toni Morrison's case, Nobel Prize-winning) literature, and very rarely for religious, political, or racial reasons. American book banning is in a separate category and it is relevant right now because of the illiberal, anti-intellectual, censorship-prone, Christian fundamentalist-backed government that is about to take office. You live in the USA, correct? You seem unwilling to stay on topic.

It reminds me a little of the posters on the Gaza War threads who deflect from, and derail, any serious discussion of the subject by constantly linking to threads about FGM and anti-gay discrimination and violence in Islamic cultures in order to accuse anyone critical of the Israeli regime of being "Hamas lovers" and "Hamas apologists." As if any of that somehow justifies what is going on. A thread here on a documentary made by four Israeli and four Palestinian film-makers/activists devolved into an argument about male versus female circumcision and the comparative harmfulness of both. Seriously, hard to believe as it might be, you'll find a higher level of discussion on certain political subreddits. Less deflection, more relevant knowledge, more fact-based arguments, more willingness to engage on a more serious level.

[quote]Yes, it exists in other countries and has, obviously, never been confined to the USA. But, as noted, not of serious (in Toni Morrison's case, Nobel Prize-winning) literature, and very rarely for religious, political, or racial reasons. American book banning is in a separate category and it is relevant right now because of the illiberal, anti-intellectual, censorship-prone, Christian fundamentalist-backed government that is about to take office. You live in the USA, correct? You seem unwilling to stay on topic.

You seem unwilling to follow the thread.

I responded to the following statement at "The only Western country where the likes of Toni Morrison, Margaret Atwood, and the graphic novel MAUS could ever be banned (the latter, apparently, for containing the phrase "God damn" and featuring an image of a cartoon mouse naked in the bathtub)."

I wrote in reply : "I can't speak about Toni Morrison but what books can be in school libraries is an issue." (referring to western countries)

I then provided a link about LGBT+ books being banned in the UK.

And books banned in Spain.

^ Should read: "I responded to the following statement at R21 "The only Western country..."."

[quote]I responded to the following statement at "The only Western country where the likes of Toni Morrison, Margaret Atwood, and the graphic novel MAUS could ever be banned (the latter, apparently, for containing the phrase "God damn" and featuring an image of a cartoon mouse naked in the bathtub)."

None of the links you provided disprove any of the above. Which European countries (Western or otherwise) have banned "MAUS", Morrison, Atwood, any serious adult or young adult literature, or any young adult books dealing with race, racism, racial violence, grief, teenage pregnancy, or abortion? Can you name one?

Book banning in Europe and book banning in the US are different animals on account of the significant influence of conservative Christians in the United States, particularly the South (as you are well aware). They are simply not a factor in highly secularized Western Europe.

European book bans have focused either on gender and/or sexuality (from more conservative-leaning and general common-sense parents) for reasons of age-inappropriateness, or on sexism/misogyny (from more left-leaning progressive parents). Instead of engaging in international whataboutery, why not offer your opinion on the book banning that is going on in your very own country?

*sigh*

I WROTE " "I can't speak about Toni Morrison but ..."

Got it?

AND as for:

"Book banning in Europe and book banning in the US are different animals on account of the significant influence of conservative Christians in the United States, particularly the South (as you are well aware). They are simply not a factor in highly secularized Western Europe. European book bans have focused either on gender and/or sexuality (from more conservative-leaning and general common-sense parents) for reasons of age-inappropriateness, or on sexism/misogyny (from more left-leaning progressive parents).

^ I completely agree. I never said otherwise.

God you are fucking tedious.

As for:

"Instead of engaging in international whataboutery, why not offer your opinion on the book banning that is going on in your very own country?"

Who the fuck are you? The hall monitor? The banning of books in schools is an issue here and abroad, And it is something, in a freewheeling conversation, worth pointing out.

AND:

"Instead of engaging in international whataboutery, why not offer your opinion on the book banning that is going on in your very own country?"

I have lived most of my adult life in Italy. Nearly 4 decades. I've been back in the US for five. The banning of books there is an issue as well is media censorship overall..

Got it now?

Can I still get them on kindle?

R36 says:

[quote]The banning of books in schools is an issue here and abroad

Yet at R11, he writes:

[quote]No one is banning books. So can we just stop the buullshit?

So, which is it? Really hard to take you seriously overall. You also seem to be a pretty consistent Musk apologist and Trump apologist in other threads, and have few complaints about the incoming U.S. administration, disregarding its illiberalism and anti-intellectualism, as noted above. Looks like we're done here.

Once again. You are UNABLE to follow the thread. And you are taking that out of context:

I WROTE:

"No one is banning books. So can we just stop the buullshit? All of those books deemed unfit for a particular library are still available to anyone in bookstores or online."

Are you able to understand the difference between the outright banning of books and keeping certain books out of a school library?

[quote]You also seem to be a pretty consistent Musk apologist and Trump apologist in other threads, and have few complaints about the incoming U.S. administration, disregarding its illiberalism and anti-intellectualism, as noted above. Looks like we're done here.

Please post where I've been a Musk apologist? I'm curious to see it.

And as for Trump: because you're dumb and are a binary thinker, you confuse criticism of Harris as being pro Trump. BTW: if you really want to know, I didn't vote in this election.

Yeah R5 I'm sure those are the types of books white Christian nationalists are banning. Because To Kill Mockingbird fits your narrative, right?

Deflect, deflect, deflect. Then contradict yourself. Then post irrelevant links to reports from other countries with quite different cultural contexts (and motivations for banning books) than the USA and accuse others of "not following." Accuse a resident of two European countries of "not understanding" Europe. Deny all over DL that (despite having refrained from voting this year) that you have right-leaning views when it's evident from hundreds of posts you've written (including ones where you call Kamala Harris a "Marxist", no less). Your views are perfectly legitimate, of course, but nonetheless--those four decades in Italy have clearly not done much for your rhetorical skills, have they? You can't argue for shit (dumbest post in this thread: "Wow! 10,000 books in a country of nearly 98,000 public schools alone"). Talk about missing the point.

You come across, elsewhere on this board, as someone who approves of Trump's hard-line policies on immigration but may be less comfortable with (often Christianity-driven) unsavory MAGA positions on issues such as education and censorship, and would prefer to look the other way by pointing to other countries rather than looking at the specific issue of school book bans and illiberalism right there in the USA. Or who knows, maybe your role here is just that of a reflexive contrarian.

Look back (if you can be bothered--I can't) at what you've written about Musk, Trump, and Harris on numerous DL threads. It couldn't be clearer where your (even ambivalent) sympathies lie. That's OK; you and I have completely different opinions, sensibilities, and world views, and there's really no point in continuing this discussion.

When I was a kid and had many questions about sexual orientation, there were no books in my school library to answer them. Nor could I find anything in the children's section of the public library about such questions. I had to go to the card catalog (remember those?) and go to the adult section to find anything even vaguely relevant and helpful. It seems to me that some people on this thread are advocating for a return to those days. "Book banning is not real". I don't consider a return to the time I grew up as an improvement on the lives of gay kids growing up.

Wake up. There is a very strong movement in this country trying to make anything or anyone non-white, non-straight, non-Christian unacceptable and a matter of shame. Are some people here so ignorant that they don't realize that there are laws now in Russia forbidding the publishing of ANY books with any positive mention of gay people, and that there are similar laws being proposed in various states in the US as we speak? Florida has a watered down version of the exact same Russian law - but enough that black children can't even be exposed to books referring to lynchings in the deep South.

R41 There you go again:

"(including ones where you call Kamala Harris a "Marxist", no less"

I never called her a Marxist. I DID how however comment once about a video she narrated about "equity" that in fact does has a Marxist theme. I also posted the video and you can judge for yourself.

The scary part will be when they go to lock down teen’s Kindles. How would that even work??

[Quote] Books have always been selected/rejected for school libraries.

That’s called banning

R11 For many people public library and schools are the only real access they have to books. They do not have the money to purchase every book they wish to read. Either you are obtuse or trolling or a fucking idiot.

The issue is school libraries. Not public libraries.

[quote]That’s called banning

Selecting books that are age appropriate for a child has always been done in school libraries. And by parents. Even Hollywood gives their films a restriction rating.

"Rated PG: Parental guidance suggested – Some material may not be suitable for children. Rated PG-13: Parents strongly cautioned – Some material may be inappropriate for children under 13."

When I was a teenager the V.C Andrew's books came out. The Flowers in the Attic books. I remember me and my friends reading them and being shocked about the stories. We got those from the Library. They really weren't appropriate for kids, but I don't know about banning books. When I saw this thread I thought about those books. It's kind of a touchy subject.