I Love Lucy Would Be Better Without Fred

I want the key to the trunk, unless you need it to play a tune!

Who would Ricky hang out and talk with? Mrs. Trumble?

R2 I thought about that. More guest stars! Just like Maxwell on The Nanny.

6. It would have spawned a ton of steamy Lucy/Ethel fanfiction.

Actually, I did not anticipate that. R4

Well, no.

Bill Frawley was terrific as Fred. And, the show worked very well with the dynamic it had with the two couples, one older and frumpier, the other younger and cuter. Plus, all the great "boys vs the girls" episodes.

And, especially in the beginning, Desi needed another male character to work with...he was the weakest actor of the bunch. Ricky without a buddy would have resulted in more boring musical numbers at the club.

ILL without Fred would have just been The Lucy Show, with Ricky. Not as good as the original.

No. You're wrong. Dumbass.

You're crazy. Put the coke soon down, OP

Ad hominem attacks? That’s a sign someone is threatened.

[quote]I Love Lucy Would Be Better Without Fred

Enough!

Tell Viv to shut the fuck up, Lucy, or I'm giving Bill a raise.

It would be better with Shelley Hack, Rose!

Fred was needed for many reasons; if nothing else, to confab with Ricky when they needed to figure out what the girls are up to.

[quote] Fred was needed for many reasons; if nothing else, to confab with Ricky when they needed to figure out what the girls are up to.

Smack.! Waaaaah!

"You hit her pretty hard there, Rick."

The show would have been better without Lucy.

"I Love Ethel" starring Vivian Vance & William Frawley

A show about a cranky landlord and his love starved wife, R14? Really? Never in a million years.

Who else, besides Fred, would make fun of Ethel's weight and age while Ricky laughs silently to himself?

OP clearly knows nothing about how to construct a sitcom. There is PLENTY of focus on Lucy and Ricky's relationship in the show as it is, and Fred as a partner for Ethel is necessary to provide more of a break from scenes involving Lucy and Ricky. Also, especially for a comedy of that time, Ricky needed the character of another husband to relate to.

You're insane, OP.

Disagree

The best episodes were either the men vs. the women or the Ricardos vs. the Mertzes.

Second, Fred and Ethel's relationship is a mirro held up to Ricky and Lucy's. It's a foil against which the viewer compares the two couples. I do believe that it should have been Gale Gordon playing Fred, not William Frawley. But, the "Fred" character was necessary.

Gale Gordon was ghastly. A queeny old ham but not the fun kind. He really only could play exasperated.

Why are people ragging on Frawley? He was terrific!

I think the fact that he and Vance weren't fond of each other only helped the show.

Anyone else think this is an edited chatgpt response?

R21 Who are you referring to?

R21, yes.

I am on FB and I see all the time someone, who has no followers and a blank profile, arguing with me, being contrary for no reason.

It's making me re-think social media.

Besides, wouldn't the proper way to phrase be "I Love Lucy Would Have Been Better Without Fred" (which it would not have)

The OP., r22. It reads exactly like an AI response to a prompt. The last comment saying ugly would've been added in by OP, but the rest reads like a typical AI response.

[quote] Stronger Female Empowerment Themes

Yes, if the show had only had that it might have been popular.

Well Good Night Nurse!! What in Sam Hill kind of topic is this?!!!

Fred’s dry humor made the show work

Maybe my problem isn’t with Fred but William Frawley. I just don’t like him.

Vivian has risen from the dead and started posting threads on DL. Shoot her!

Duly noted, R28. You're entitled to your opinion, but the rest of the world thinks he was perfect for the part and the show.

[quote]Maybe my problem isn’t with Fred but William Frawley. I just don’t like him.

If you disliked Frawley as Fred Mertz, then you would have HATED him as Bud during the first five seasons of My Three Sons (the black and white seasons).

I stumbled across a couple of those early seasons with Frawley as the maternal grandfather helping to take care of the boys. My god, they were bad episodes.

Were there really five seasons of MY THREE SONS with Frawley? I thought he was only on it for one or two at most.

Fred would have made a great unseen/offscreen character.

Let's face it, if the Ricardos' landlords had been Ethel Mertz and Caroline Appleby as a chic but prickly lesbian couple, everything would have been much more interesting.

[quote] the other younger and cuter.

Why, thank you

I appears Frawley was on My Three Sons for four and a half season, but credited with five seaons.

[quote]During the 1964 fall season, William Frawley, who played Bub, was declared too ill to work by Desilu Studios, as the company was informed that insuring the actor would be too costly. Frawley continued in the role until a suitable replacement could be found at midseason. He was replaced by William Demarest, who played his hard-nosed brother (great) Uncle Charley, introduced partway through the 1964–1965 season (the last on ABC). According to the storyline, Bub returns to Ireland to help his Aunt Kate celebrate her 104th birthday. Soon after, brother Charley visits and stays on. Charley, a cello-playing merchant sailor, was a soft-hearted curmudgeon, who proved to be a responsible caregiver. Frawley left the series before the end of the 1964–1965 season. He died March 3, 1966.

[quote]if the Ricardos' landlords had been Ethel Mertz and Caroline Appleby as a chic but prickly lesbian couple

Carolyn Appleby.

Caroline and Carolyn are two different names entirely. They are not two different spellings of the same name.

Did you spend time think that and typing it out? Why, OP' WTF is wrong with you?

Subject Overview:

Our subject is a 70-something gay man, living in a cozy apartment decorated like a time capsule of mid-century Americana. His greatest loves: vintage sitcoms from the 1950s-70s. His latest passion project? A reimagining of I Love Lucy. Let’s unpack what drives this man and his obsession with the golden age of television.

Psychological Profile:

Nostalgia as Identity: This man’s identity is deeply tied to the worlds of classic TV. For him, the 50s-70s represent more than just an era—they’re an escapist utopia, far removed from the struggles of growing up gay in a less accepting time. Classic sitcoms, with their sanitized family dynamics and laugh tracks, provide a comforting, predictable world he can retreat to.

Catty Take: He’s the type who believes everything went downhill after The Golden Girls ended.

Control and Creative Catharsis: Rewriting I Love Lucy gives him the control over a world where he might have felt out of place. He’s no longer the outlier in a heteronormative space; he’s the auteur reshaping it.

Catty Take: His Lucy is probably far sassier, openly flirts with Ethel, and gets into hijinks that would make the censors of the 1950s sweat bullets. Let’s face it: this Lucy would’ve never married Ricky.

Fixation on the Familiar: His attachment to the mid-century aesthetic suggests someone who finds safety in the known. Change—especially in media—probably feels like a betrayal. Reality TV? Streaming algorithms? No, thank you. Give him laugh tracks and three-camera setups, or nothing at all.

Catty Take: He’s still mad that nobody watches Bewitched anymore and keeps a "Team Dick York" vs. "Team Dick Sargent" debate alive with himself.

Camp and Wit as Defense Mechanisms: Let’s not forget that classic sitcoms are inherently camp. This man likely finds joy in their over-the-top antics, exaggerated performances, and impeccable comedic timing. They mirror his own penchant for humor—both a survival mechanism and an art form. His love for I Love Lucy is a love for the theatrical chaos of life, minus the heartbreak.

Catty Take: He’s convinced that Lucille Ball invented modern comedy and would loudly argue that no current comedian could touch her genius—while chain-smoking and sipping a martini.

Loneliness and the Ghost of Untapped Dreams: Beneath his encyclopedic knowledge of old TV trivia and biting wit lies a quieter reality. His obsession may also stem from a sense of what could have been. Did he dream of being a writer? An actor? Or was he a Ricky-like figure who put practicality first? The television in his home runs almost constantly—it’s both companion and backdrop.

Catty Take: He rewrote Lucy not just for fun but because he still thinks he’d be a much better showrunner than anyone Netflix has hired.

Conclusion:

This man’s devotion to classic TV is more than just a hobby; it’s a way to rewrite the script of his own life. His reimagining of I Love Lucy isn’t just fan fiction—it’s therapy, commentary, and a love letter to the cultural touchstone that shaped him. But don’t get it twisted—his sharp tongue and unshakable opinions would be the stuff of a sitcom all his own.

took me and AI 1-2 minutes. Which is the sum value of OP's dreary pointless tome.

R21, yes I too had the suspicion the OP post is AI generated. The tone and writing style give it away. The “AI Bureaucratese Word Salad” writing style if ever there was a prime example of it.

J.K. Simmons, in that mediocre film, Being the Ricardos, made William Frawley (and Fred) more interesting, mainly because he’s much easier on the eyes. As a kid, I’d want to spit out my Cheerios whenever Fred would appear in reruns of I Love Lucy in the morning before school. It would have been better if they’d gotten a less elderly actor who wasn’t shaped like a blob to play Fred—someone closer to the ages of the other three leads. The friendship between Ricky and Fred would have been more believable. Frawley was 30 years older than Arnaz.

Caroline Appleby was a snore. She was fine as a once in awhile foil for Lucy but other than that...no.

As for this thread, I firmly believe Mediapolis has a paid staff who start many threads to generate traffic.

Well they need to step up their game—this place sucks eggs lately.

I never liked that show.

Every episode was the same thing, "Ricky, why can't I be in the show?" "Ricky, why can't I be in the show?"

Why couldn't she be in the show?

Her performances at home were a riot; his acts at the club stank.

What's so entertaining about a Cuban beating a drum?

His acts at the club did stink. I never thought he could sing.

Fred came up with hilarious quips about Ethel and Lucy. He helped make the show the awesome ensemble comedy it was.

I loved watching Ethel tuck Fred in to bed using his big night gown to tuck underneath the mattress to keep him on his side of the bed and not slide into the big sagging dip in the middle of the bed. I love it! 😂

[quote] "I Love Ethel" starring Vivian Vance & William Frawley

R14: I had that t-shirt in high school! (1980s).

That was a bit of a slog, OP. I can’t tell how hard you worked on it, but surely you’ve heard of The Lucy Show. Vivian played a divorced woman and many a hijink was had.

I don’t think it worked as well.

This thread and others make me think that Datalounge is basically a secret underground civilization of people who have never seen the actual world above. The only clues they have to it are some ancient videotapes of the complete series of "I Love Lucy" and "The Golden Girls," and they watch these over and over again, obsessing about them, going over every last detail, and wondering just how life in the sunlit world above can possibly correspond to the details of what they're seeing on the holy videotapes.

And what grade did you get on this term paper OP?

Close to the mark!

Fred is an absolutely essential part of the character mix on the show.

OP, why don't you program the AI to write a paper on how I Love Lucy would have been better without Ethel. Could be interesting to see what AI comes up with.

Fred was gay.

A friend of mine used to say that William Frawley as Fred absolutely "makes" I LOVE LUCY -- i.e., helps greatly to make the show work so well. Of course, he would frequently join in the fun along with the other trhee, but the fact that Frawley played him as often a curmudgeon made him a wonderful foil for the others when necessary.

According to IMDB, Frawley was in 165 episodes of My Three Sons compared to 179 episodes of I Love Lucy, plus 13 of the Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour.

Frawley had a mean vibe to him (as an actor). I didn't like the Fred character. I felt bad for Viv all the time.

Sherwood Schwartz said he had a hard time casting the Skipper on Gilligan's Island because he couldn't find an actor who didn't come off as mean.

Agree that he would've been a good off-screen character, like Lars Lindstrom.

R59 MARY!

If you hate Fred but love the show, then you ARE really stupid because the show works because of the chemistry of its cast.

I like Fred's waistline and how the belt looked around his waist.

Fred was too old - their marriage always looked ridiculous and Ricky looked like he was hanging out with his father.

They could have got any actor 10 years older than Ricky or Lucy.

I also never found grouchy, barky men like that to be funny - they were just loud and unpleasant.

[quote]I also never found grouchy, barky men like that to be funny - they were just loud and unpleasant.

I resent that remark.

Frawley as Fred certainly didn't come across as grouchy, barky, or mean all the time, only when it worked for the comedy of the show.

R59 that’s how I feel about him.

Barky is a good way to describe Frawley.

Sgt. Carter (Frank Sutton) on Gomer Pyle was barky, but he didn't have a mean vibe.

R39, that was epic.

If ever a thread called for a Vivan Vance option

OP = Vivian Vance and William Demarest

after realizing that the circle of friends that my Mother and late Aunt (her sister) had wasn't very friendly, I quipped that they were friend with a bunch of Carolyn Appleby's.

They were always comparing their little Stevies to my Mom's Little Ricky.

I prefer guy friends.

R71, why did you get the plural of "Stevie" right but fail epically on "Carolyn Appleby's?" (Although that brings up an interesting point, would the correct plural of that be "Applebys" or "Applebies?")

I Love Lucy Would Be Better Without Ethel

When ILL debuted, it would have been pretty unheard of to have an Ethel without a husband.

r74 Mrs. Trumbull didn't have a (living) husband

The original Lucy was a trans woman of color. But the producers weren’t ready to be that progressive.

Mrs. Trumbull also was not a featured regular.

R72 because Carolyn is a cunt and doesn’t deserve proper grammar