WE LOST THE POPULAR VOTE

When Biden went down he should have gone with Whitmer or Pritzer

Wow people really still hate women. Even other women. Two smart capable women couldnt beat a complete lowlife like Trump. A guy who wasn’t all there could though.

It's one thing to lose the Electoral College.

But, losing the popular vote is a lot more damning - FFS.

Cheeto can claim a "mandate" from the people.

It really sucks that we’re going to have another 4 years of Trump.

But the Democrats can only do the “vote for me cause I’m not Trump” pitch without offering anything else but that.

Kamala’s hype was front loaded.

Regardless of the accuracy, the American public views liberals as elitists who want gender neutral bathrooms and illegal immigrants and there was nothing during this campaign that shattered that image.

People are going to be mad at me right now but it’s the truth.

R1 It's not about who the candidate is. Any candidate would've simply stickered their name on Biden's campaign behind it's not the candidate that makes the decisions but the DNC, an organization that's rotten to the core. You want to win people back? Fire the entire leadership, AND keep make sure the new leadership stay the fuck away from AIPAC money.

We haven't lost it yet OP. Don't get hysterical. Much of the west coast hasn't been counted, various big cities i the east like Clelveland and Philadelphia and Atlanta and Detroitt are not fully counted. You will see.

The View will be MUST SEE TV tomorrow...

People made fun of Donald Trump at McDonalds. He probably got the fast food employee vote.

All the liberals were shitting on him.

He did spend the last month reaching audiences and it clearly made a difference.

It’s hard to admit but it’s the truth. It’s the only way I can cope.

They called Florida and Texas suspiciously early. And in Nevada Republicans were trying to stop students from voting by claiming their signatures didn't match their registration cards.

[quote]Wow people really still hate women. Even other women.

I have been saying this for years. Woman don't trust other woman. No matter how much they bitch about how life is unfair because men control everything, they still hate women more.

Everyone thought the racism of the Madison Square Garden rally was a death knell. Just the opposite. That was their hail m ary to win by appealing to racists who had no other reason to vote.

Maybe the economy will improve

Too much word salad from Kamala and now she's choking on it.

Biden on the campaign trail didn't help either.

Well one thing for sure is that I don’t want to hear another damn word from any women about how unfairly they are treated by men. Fellow woman have given them a slap in the face harder than any man could. That’s just straight up treachery.

R2 Oh honey, don't do that

That's mostly WHITE woman R14.

The first thing I want Dump to do is sign a nationwide abortion ban passed by Congress. Women voted for Dump, too.

Unfortunately r9 you can scream elections are fair for two months straight, blasting Donald Trump for planting false stories about it not being fair, and then start looking for cracks and cheaters when you don’t win.

R2 Hillary was a President’s wife and Kamala was VP because Biden made a deal with black voters to put a black woman in office.

They’re not close to women like Thatcher or Merkel.

So I disagree with that.

People are underestimating how the horrible state of pretty much every major US city, the unsustainably of the open border policy of Biden/Harris administration , and the soft on crime DAs has played into this result. All of this has been ignored and ridiculed on DL and elsewhere but is very real to the average person. We now have a vile scumbag for President as a result.

R16 polls are showing a larger than average turnout of Hispanics FOR Trump in certain areas like NJ and Nevada. It’s not just white women. I think the only group of women you can say that DIDN’T turn out for Trump are black women.

Your comment on Hillary Clinton r19 is like saying Lady MacBeth was just the King’s wife.

The saddest part is that all these traditionally democrat constituencies voting for cheeto think he'll make their lives better.

And, when their lives are even worse, they'll still blame the dems, deep state, and liberals for making their lives worse.

The Hispanic vote for Trump sounds like it was huge.

Kamala and liberals did nothing to incite the black vote.

And I’ll tell you something else. I grew up in a melting pot city and Hispanic / Latino Americans don’t like “Hicks”. That’s what they called them. This idea that Latinos welcome illegals is so false and Democrats pandering to the “dreamers” is again, an image they didn’t shatter.

Oh, please R12. The “economy” is going to improve overnight with a Trump win.

It’s not about the economy. It’s about racism and misogyny.

R18 Republicans complain so loudly about cheating becasue cheating is what they do. They started with Floyd Crollo in the early 90s, engaged absentee fraud with Bob Martinez, and then it fell into the lap of Dan Quayle, who enlisted the help of William Welch and the Urosevich brothers to figure out how to cheat with electronic voting machines. Jeb Bush being technologically challenged the resorted to old fashioned vote sealing and bribing the opposition, but by 2004 Kenneth Blackwell and team did what they had to do to steal Ohio. In 2006 they tried but failed, and for a decade their main effort was to buy control of all the voting machine companies and kill anyone to made a truly secure one. Dominion to some exent foiled this plot, which is why they have been doing low tech vote suppression this time, but this time they probably also had the support of Russia and China, which oculd make all the difference.

The thing is, you present evidence for years about how insane, uninformed and dangerous Trump is.

But you only have to say a woman is stupid once.

^^ That’s misogyny.

Everyone is going to claim the Democrats lost because they supported (insert social issue that the poster doesn't support). We'll have to wait to the dust to settle before we can really start assigning blame.

I'm sorry DL. Thoughts and Prayers.

lol.

What's odd is I really think objectively, if she were a man, everyone would agree she ran an almost flawless campaign. But in the end, non of that mattered. People just voted on personality and grievance.

Exactly, R23. In a way, Democrats should just stay out of it for 2 or 3 election cycles until the Republicans have conclusively ruined everything. All that happens otherwise is Republicans have their fun, tank the economy, murder 1.2M Americans and then the Democrats have to come in and do all the hard work again for no credit.

You know what’s misogyny? Saying a man in a dress with long hair is a woman. Ie The left loat it’s goddamn mind with this shit and gave the issue to a POS like Trump.

Trump is NOT insane.

He’s the Madonna of politics. He is an entertainer. He had a hit TV show for a decade. He understands marketing.

Yes, his following and the people around him are dangerous.

But again, the whole “you’re going to be thrown in concentration camps” approach doesn’t work. We had Trump for 4 years. We’re all still alive.

I’m not defending Trump but this is why he won. Rationalizing the win by saying half the American population are Nazis who want crazy is just not true at this point and it’s why we as Democrats lost.

We should have had a centered politician run after Biden stepped down.

R32 Are you high? What did the flawless campaign constitute exactly, other than adopting Trump's 2020 platform on immigration, parroting Republican rhetoric on the military, screaming "TRUMP WILL BE WORSE!" as the go-to response to any substantive questions about their policy positions, and trying to shame and morally blackmail those who want no part in a genocide into voting for them as if bullying is how you win over people who are turned off by the genocide you're doing?

Here's how bad her campaign was - she would've won easily had the election been held the week of announcement. All her campaign's accomplished since then is squander any goodwill and positivity she once had.

You're wrong R35. WE weren't thgrown into concentration camps becasue he didn't have the current set around him. He had a bunch of people who thought he was insane and dangerous. And he fired them all. It will be different this time around R35. Fight fight fight. Do not every make peace with a republican. We won't stiop until the party is legally banned and its leaders in Guantanamo/.

She lost when she picked Walz. I'm sorry. Did she learn nothing from Hillary? Another bland nobody. And so far Walz can't even deliver his own state. Still uncalled.

She had a massive ground game r37, that usually what matters, she went on almost every talk show, interview, news org, pod cast, social media that asked her to including Fox. Except for one stupid podcaster. Trump didn't do anything like that. She raised close to 1 Billion in cash, she convinced over 400 top Republicans to openly endorse her.

A Kamala/Buttigieg ticket would have beaten Trump/Vance. Picking Walz was the beginning of the end.

R40, and she also was considered to have beaten Trump in the Presidential Debate.

You defeatist pirck. We will win.

R39 Walz was a fucking rock star when he was first picked. His correctly pointing out the weirdness of MAGA was by far the highlight of the campaign. Fuck only knows why they decided to shove him to the backbenches and never let him speak to the press again since then.

And clearly Cardi B and Taylor Swift did not help.

I was still in high school at the time, but this feels very much like when Ronald Reagan won, only worse. Decades of Republican ideology took over the country.

Yep, R7. Thanks Sunny!

I’m sure Asians, Jews, Catholics and Latinos did not feel particularly cherished by the Harris/Walz campaign and now we see the results.

[quote] Walz was a fucking rock star when he was first picked. His correctly pointing out the weirdness of MAGA was by far the highlight of the campaign. Fuck only knows why they decided to shove him to the backbenches and never let him speak to the press again since then.

Yeah, I found that odd too. Walz was all over TV calling Trump and Vance "weird," and then he went into hiding.

Look. It's not the candidate. She had 102 days to mount a national campaign and she did a great job. She had crowds in excess of 20,000 people and an enthusiastic army of volunteers. What she did not have was the media who have been controlling this game for the past 8-9 years. The barrage of lies in his ad campaigns, saturation c overage, and the news media sanitizing hi, normalizing him, literally brain washing people. Playing to their fears and their ignorance. We have millions of stupid fearful people out here who are easily manipulated. The entire National security establishment was against him. Prominent, credible Republicans were against him. But when you talk to his voters they kept saying immigration, our "open borders" and inflation, and "the economy." One dumb ass in Philly talked about being able to keep more of his paycheck when Trump was President because he was gonna cut his taxes. He worked in the service department at a car dealership. Harris did everything she could but nothing overcomes the lies and the fear mongering. I have studied voter behavior for years. Then lets look at which demographics went for Trump: Latinos! and he was even getting a significant % of Black men. Racism, sexism, and stupidity were all factors.,. But IMO the Candidate and her campaign were not the main reason. The pundits will say what she could shoulda done, but they will never look at the Media's role. And the openly hostile efforts to suppress the votes by Russian "bomb scares" in Democratic precincts and counties in 5 states. Anyway that's my analysis.

R48 The Biden/Harris administration has assumed 73% of the cost for the genocide in Gaza. How much harder do you want them to cherish the Jews?

Biden had no housing policy. Housing costs were a prime driver of inflation and living expenses. And Biden was too slow to address the border issues. Dems have always been notoriously poor at messaging. His infrastructure bill and the efforts he made on climate change were significant. We have more union, manufacturing jobs. But none of those accomplishments featured in campaign strategy, at least not in digestible sound bites.

This was bigger than Kamalas Campaign. We lost the Senate. Solid "unbeatable" candidates like incumbent Sherrod Brown lost.

I'm thinking about my mother losing her social security and Medicare. I'm thinking of the 1000s of civil servants who will lose their jobs. I'm thinking about them finally dismantling the Affordable Care act and people like me, with a pre existing condition unable to get health insurance. I am thinking about Abortion bans becoming a national law, and my sister, who has had two miscarriages will certainly be affected. The impact of this victory will surely affect all the dumb people who voted for him. mass deportations, tariffs, etc.

Clearly a Madison Av e conpsiracy that has been going on for decades. Advertising execs are all the kind of people who tried o sell the world Stroessner and Mobutu.

It’s not odd r49, he did poorly at the debate against a smug moron he should have cremated. After that he disappeared.

R54 Why would your mother lose her social security and Medicare? When have Republicans (or Democrats for that matter) ever fucked over the seniors over the youth?

All these greedy powerful and rich folk are going to be sorry when the homeless population explodes to 10 times what it is now. You cut people off medical care, food stamps, jobs, what did you think would happen?

Look at htat fraud who said "maybe the economy will improve." That stats are in 50 million new jobs in Democratic Administrations since 1989, 1 million jobs in all the Republican administrations combined since 1989. Republicans always tank the economy. It's their thiing, and probably sometimes it's deliberate.

Fucking cunt Jill Stein once again isn't helpful. Guess we'll see her again in four years.

[quote] It’s not odd [R49], he did poorly at the debate against a smug moron he should have cremated. After that he disappeared.

I agree that Walz wasn't great during the debate. But he had disappeared even before then. And he seemed to be pretty good at interviews and rallies.

Vaccines will be banned. So will fluoride. Can you imagine?! Kids will get polio again. Cops can kill whoever they want for no reason. They’ll repeal the 14th and 19th amendments. To start.

Trump himself did even more poorly when he debated Harris, who cremated him. He should have disappeared, but, instead, he was elected president again. He's a cult leader who can, and does, say whatever he wants, however false and hateful, because it doesn't matter: he knows the MAGA cult will continue to support him, as they proved today.

Thanks, New York Times, for normalizing it all and making it possible. You, too, will suffer for this.

Take a nap get to sleep wake up early just now and——-holy shit.

It looks like, as has been said here often but maybe not often enough, the US is not the DL the US will never be the DL we at DL are the ones out of step, we at DL are the fringe, we are the ones who are the losers the unliked.

It’s a crushing loss and even the women and abortion could not save us. The country has moved away from the values of DL.

DL loses the majority of Americans win. Hey I lived thru vietnam I understand being beaten——and surprised,

Not the fucking results I was expecting. But at least we will not have to hear for 4 years that at least we won the popular vote.

Shocking absolutely shocking,

I watched CNN briefly tonight before he won. They all seemed shell shocked and their voices were actually shaking as the realization hit them, especially Jake Tapper. I just thought it was weird since they enabled him all the way.

I agree, R44. Walz was held back because Harris is terrible at interviews and since she didn’t want to do them, he was reined in. If he’d been able to keep at it his debate performance would have been better, or it would not have mattered as much. Too much was at stake.

By far the biggest mistake was Harris restricting interviews.

The one thing I NEVER heard talked about is the Asian vote. No one really addressed how unsafe they felt in the post Covid Biden years when they were being attacked in the streets. I am sure they turned up in large numbers for Trump who has promised to make big cities safer.

Disgusting. In what kind of country are we living? We have very little in common with most of it.

They were attacked because Trump called it the China virus!!

I agree R50 Adding, the whole country has taken a giant step to the right, on purpose. It’s a sad night, saying goodbye to what was once a great country, and the envy of the world. Ready everybody? Here we goooooo

They’ll live behind heavily gated areas, R58.

Oh, R57. /smh

Oh no now they are all taking the stage and smiling. My god the trumps return in victory with flags and patriotic songs. My god.

And just a few days ago I sounded a warning about a super trump ad on the nfl game and how that ad would appeal to normal regular Americans that ad caught my attention in an alarming way——instead of discussing that ad and how important or not , morons instead gave me a FF , got accused of being Russian or worse a GOP, and I got banned for two days.

But that ad should have been a giant warning, There is an america that is nothing like DL.

We got crushed. Fucking crushed.

President JD Vance——Oh Mary :-(

[quote]The one thing I NEVER heard talked about is the Asian vote

What about the Jewish vote? I saw ads with 4 old white ladies sitting in a diner talking about Israel and how they think Trump is the only one who will keep them safe. My former boss who is also an older woman, wealthy woman living on her own also talked like that even though she had no idea about politics and almost never bothered to vote.

I guess all we can hope is that Trump and family, as well as Vance, follow Health Czar RFK Jr,'s expert medical advice.

R70 I think we can take anything Trump says out of the equation. He’s obviously the Magic Man. He can say anything he wants and is never blamed for anything. It doesn’t matter he called it the China Virus. The cities got worse under Biden. That’s all that is recorded. Trumps campaign literally called Puerto Ricans garbage and Latinos turned out for him in larger numbers for him than 2020.

The man told us ten years ago he could shoot someone on fifth avenue and get away with it if. He’s right. He IS the American Psycho.

Step One: Stop being flabbergasted but what Trump says.

I think I feel worse tonight than I did in 2016. The people surrounding Trump now (JD Vance, Tucker Carlson, Musk, Peter Thiel, RFK Jr., Gabbard, etc.) are far more dangerous than the crew he had last time.

All I can do at this moment is just weep. I don't think I can go to sleep tonight. This election has drained everything out of me.

I’m fairly shell shocked myself but I can’t agree with any explanation provided in this thread. I don’t have one myself either but none of them make sense.

My initial reaction is that the USA is no more. There is nothing United. Kamala Harris can pack a stadium and get 10 million views on YouTube. But Donald Trump leads a cult. It’s like we need a big move - all Dems over here, all MAGA over there and split into 2 countries. Of course, we’ve completely lost our reputation and it will likely be 20 years before we move back left.

Well, it is a great irony, R75, that the Jews have solidified the rise of fascism in the world.

Wonder how they’ll feel when another people claim a Holocaust in 15 years?

The popular vote goes to two billionaires. Gee, what could go wrong.

R75 I brought up the Jewish question months ago on the “How long will the Harris frenzy Last” or whatever thread and I was laughed out of existence. I said what a lot of my rich Jewish clients were posting about Trump and I was told I was wildly out of touch.I gave several examples as to what Harris needed to address and I was told to sit down. I guess I was right.

R78 I haven’t been able to weep and I think it would be healthy to get it all out. I feel completely numb. It all happened so fast. I turned on MSNBC, Florida was called, Allred lost, Steve didn’t say one positive thing at that darn map, the panel had dead eyes and boom he’s won.

Don’t worry, R81. Billionaires really identify with the little people and have lots of empathy. /sarcasm

R82 The problem is that she is one person, with 100 days. In the last hours I’ve heard that she should have reached Jews, white men, Asians, union workers, Arabs, white woman, the working class, black men, Catholics, Latino gen z……Its impossible and she would have been dragged for pandering and sending mixed messages because you cannot please all of these people.

Unless you are Trump! Then you can insult each of them on a daily basis, offer no policy and they all gravitate towards you.

I’m sure many books will be written but I’d love to see the internal polling that the Harris people had. I believe it was good and very good in the blue wall. The people who predicted Trump in 2016 all missed it this time.

R58 Asians did not turn out for Trump because Trump was the reason they were attacked in the streets during COVID.

If we had to lose I am glad we lost the popular vote. It makes it cleaner. It makes us address the idiocy as some peddled here yesterday that we had won even when we lost we won and the EC stole it.

We change we adapt we learn how to steal maga voters in the future or we liberal moderate Dems become some clearly minority party for decades.

The next four years are going to be interesting. But the good news is no US troops will ever be killed fight ing for Ukraine, Maybe against Ukraine but not for.

Dems just don’t have that evil mindset when it comes to cheating.

That is not true R88. You don't understand how Trump works. He tried to start several wars last time he wsa president but his advisors stopped him.

Women have been a majority of voters since 1920. That we haven't had a woman president is down to the fact that they don't want one. Or maybe it's just too painful for them to reflect on the fact that they had all the power in society all along and chose to give it to men.

He is four electoral votes away from winning. This lying, cheating, dangerous convicted felon in diapers that I will continue to call Dump is going to be the next President. AGAIN! I was convinced we had an opportunity to be rid of him, the people chose and we are fucked.

Accusing democrats of communism , socialism and woke seems to work in this miserable country.

R90 what I sad was that no US troops would die helping Ukraine. The Ukraine is now burnt toast. In Jan Russia will have the US on their side or at least neutral..

Of course US troops will deploy and get shot at as well. Mexico and countries south comes to mind as a country (s) where US troops will be sent to attack and fight cartels and others.

Not so numbnuts R94. Russia will not ever be on our side. And Trump could well push Poland into war with them.

R92, he is 78 years old and declining. The only way America will be rid of him is in death. And they'll probably be wheeling Jimmy Carter up to the front pew for the ceremony.

[quote] Disgusting. In what kind of country are we living? We have very little in common with most of it.

It’s officially a Third World shithole country as of tonight.

There will never be a MAGAT in my life.

We’re in a civil war.

Do the Democrats have the balls to go through with it?

R85, I take solace in what someone else said in another thread - Kamala and her campaign were not the problem. America is the problem. She ran a fantastic campaign. There is nothing you can take away from it.

R98 That was the closing question. This election is not about him or her. It’s about us. And “we” turned our “last great hope for all” country into a third world shithole and laughing stock because eggs are expensive.

R95 we will be on their side not them on ours. Or at leader we will be on Putin’s side. Aid military aid to Ukraine will come to an end. The US will not stand behind them, That defines helping Russia or Putin.

And Poland is not going to enter direct fighting because they will see that the US has left and will not support them against Russia.

Russia will get and keep their gains and the fighting will sooner than later come to a close

[quote]Do the Democrats have the balls to go through with it?

Are you seriously asking that question? Of course not.

I do find it interesting how election by election Democrats are losing themselves. Remember how fast "when they go low, we go high..." was thrown out the window? I wonder what the next iteration will be. Maybe they's realize at this point there is no UNITING the country. The country is clearly divided and you need to play nasty to get what you want. It's really come to that.

R97 exactly what actions are you going to do in the coming civil war you claim started last night?

Yacking is not action

Ukrain is about the size of Texas. America now is not going to lose its shit over that. They put up a good fight. I think it's the end of the road for them. The country will just become the new gulags and prison camps for Russian defectors.

The Economist, in its current issue, lays out the ramifications of a second Trump term very clearly. Sample: “Mr Trump’s policies are worse, the world is more perilous and many of the sober, responsible people who reined in his worst instincts during his first term have been replaced by true believers, toadies and chancers."

I hope FL and NC enjoy all the hurricanes next year. Because there won’t be a FEMA.

Living in Italy, and with the whole NATO question in play, I am comforted a bit by the fact that Meloni is pretty, a far right conservative with huge tits and basically Elon Musk's next baby-momma.

R105, yeah, you would think that some of those Southern states that get damaged so badly by climate change and floods would realize that Republicans don't take the science seriously and are going to gut the EPA and all other environmental agencies.

More people will continue to have their homes destroyed by floods and climate change in the years ahead. North Carolina, Florida and Georgia should have voted Democratic. They have only themselves to blame if they lose more of their homes in the years ahead.

It's not going to work that way, Trump will pick who gets money and who does not. Red states will be bailed out, blue states will be cut off. He already tired this once when California had some wild fires up north, he didn't want to allow any federal money go to CA until someone on his staff told him most of the people who lost their homes in the fire were in a very Republican part of the state.

And here is what the real losers from tonight will do, the ones who will be true losers 4 years from now as well, they will point fingers at everyone else. They will attack Harris, Waltz, bigots, GenZ, MAGa gays, etc etc etc. what these losers will not blame is themselves.

Self reflection more than finger pointing because there is a lot about America about DL and what people here say they do here that much of America hates. We were warned by several posters. We ridiculed, made fun of, and banned those who on DL sounded the warning.

I hope in 4-8-12 we get better at this. But winning in the future just got a lot fucking harder.

President JD Vance—-holy fucking shit.

Yes, I bet Gavin is currently in contingency mode because he knows CA is getting nothing for the next fire. Just conspiracy theories and insults. Luckily CA has such a strong economy that Trump can go fuck himself but it shouldn’t be like this.

California has one thing Elon wants, Vanderberg Air force base. You want to keep using that launch pads for rockets by the ocean? Well Elon, talk to your boss.

More America blaming, no reflection by a lot of folks. This will just keep repeating until Dems stop doing that.

There is no America, R112. It’s amusing that you think there is.

But the swifties !

Why did so many Latinos vote for Trump?

The majority of American voters of Latin American origin are Mexican-American. They don't care about immigrants coming from South America and Central America Although the majority of Latin American immigrants are still Mexican, their numbers have lowered in recent years, and all they see and hear about in the news are Latin American immigrants from Venezuela, Colombia, Brazil, Peru, not to mention Central Americans from Nicaragua and Guatemala. Mexican-Americans feel no allegiance towards them.

Basically, there is no such thing as the "Latino vote". There's the Mexican-American vote, the Puerto Rican vote, the Cuban vote, etc.

Uh R112, Trump has been calling the US a failed state and referring to the Enemies Within. If we don't blame people for these attitudes, they will think they can use them to put others down all along. It's time to ifght fight fight. This election was fraudulent from soup to nuts. Look at the way the media said it violated the Fairness Doctrine that Kamala appeared on SNL. The Fairness Doctrine that they abolished in the 80s so they could achieve a media monopoly. And now the media is blamed because it isn't a 100% monopoly like in Australia.

{quote] Basically, there is no such thing as the "Latino vote". There's the Mexican-American vote, the Puerto Rican vote, the Cuban vote, etc.

Correct. Hispanics are not monolithic.

And none are more detestable than Cubans.

Everyone is gonna pay higher prices and lots of people are gonna lose their jobs thanks to Trump’s tarriffs. Even those in red states.

I still can't believe that women couldn't put two and two together and see that an abortion ban is not just about preventing women from having abortions but a whole new national policy of saving babies over mothers. That is what they voted for.

Mexican males are still trapped in a Machismo mentality to begin with. Even down to what food you eat. Add into that religion which is VERY strong in that community and you get a conservative voter. Ironically, Mexico just voted in their first female president.

The country is dead because this election solidified the hate for the other side,

And it's not even saving babies over mothers - it saving PREGNANCIES over mothers, because in a complicated pregnancy were the mother's life is in risk, the baby usually dies with her. A teen girl just died the other day because no hospital wanted to touch her and risk the complications of treating her sepsis which might have interfered with her pregnancy.

Not true R34. Renee Richards was playing professional womens tenni8s in 19971. Wasn't a big issu then. Why did it become a big issue? Kaitlyn Jenner lifelong Republican and Trumpist (and murderer). And Jennifer Pritzker billionaire republican (formerly John McCain's campaign finance chair) as well as major funder of a m ilitary museum. The left has not been pushing transgenderism, the right has. That said, another that happened is that women have successfully transformed into men, so it's not all creepy men trying to blame all their lives on their penis or engaged in a weird fetish or trying to pretend they weren't doused with testosterone for decades. It's the right which embraced transgenderism as an alternative to homosexuality for men.

But now we also have successful FTM transgenderism which should probably be protected as these women usually make better men than cis men.

[quote]Everyone is gonna pay higher prices and lots of people are gonna lose their jobs thanks to Trump’s tarriffs. Even those in red states.

Yep. What will be interesting to watch is if Elon does get to take over who gets to stay and who gets to go, he's notorious for making big cuts, and big mistakes hiring them back to fix the problem.

There will be lots of suicides and Gofundme

70 million votes for The Devil 😈

None of these people expect Trump to do anything for them. They just want him to punish people of whom they disapprove. Republican antigovernment rhetoric has become so pervasive that the idea that the government can do things to improve lives is not believed, although it would be if any of these people had ever traveled to say Scandinavia.

It's all too raw in this moment, but over the coming few years the Democrats will need to take the deepest dive possible into why this has happened. For all that we mocked the NYT seeking to do this... clearly we DO need to understand the Trump voters more than mock them. Because it became brutally clear tonight, they outnumber us.

One thing that was on my mind during this campaign was Kamala Harris' choice to go upbeat, smiling, confident, happy. "Vibes." I do think millions and millions of people out here feel ... not happy. And I was never a Bernie Sanders supporter in 2016 but he's the one person on our side who galvanized those who feel socio-economically abandoned, predated upon, lost, and treading water and maybe even drowning. I was thinking several times, where's our heir to Bernie. AOC gets it but she is too far left progressive in her prescriptions. As was Bernie.

But somehow, there has grown a disconnect. Trump was all frowns and anger and resentment. We recoiled, and we thought Harris was being more Presidential. But the rageful, messy, persecution-complex Trump just won the popular vote. I know a large % of his support is fueled by racism. But there's more going on. There is a lot there to unpack.

R128, yeah, the blame for that starts with Ronald Reagan in the 1980's. He always went on a crusade about wanting to reduce the size of government and make it so small "it can be drowned in a bathtub".

Wait till you have to renew your drivers license at the DMV. You think it's bad now?

Our Heir to Bernie is TRUMP. He hand delivered him!

No, it’s not about saving babies or pregnancies. It’s about controlling, punishing, and killing women. Take heed.

It's just embarrassing. We live in a country full of stupid bigots.

It's definitely not about religion since I've yet to meet an evangelical who had anything Christian in them at all.

I think what throws me the most is the huge crowds of 80,000 people that were showing up to the Kamala rallies. I mean normally that's a good indicator of who's going to win. It seems like if nothing else, she should have won the popular vote.

R129 that deep dive may or may not happen, And there is a small outside chance a really small one that the Dems will go after and try to recruit all those gop voters that in my life time were once mostly all Dems and try to win them back.

It’s more likely that we will encourage them to return to the correct dem side by constantly calling them stupid Nazi haters.

EvanTrumpicals

Your strategy has been tried and failed R137. The only way to deprogram these people is to make them pay a price.

R139 is correct.

Unfortunately, it's going to take years. Maybe several election cycles until there are no more Democrats to blame. Maybe decades since now that Trump will most likely be able to put 2 more judges on the Supreme Court. We are going to be stuck with that for decades.

Yes R129, democrats need to realize that the vast majority of Americans don’t want to end in a socialist reeducation camp. Especially immigrants. They need to win voters back instead of vilifying and ridiculing them.

What the fuck is a socialist reeducation camp?

JHC so surprised how much the Dems underperformed in macomb, Wayne, Oakland counties in Michigan, underperformed being different than lost,

How the fuck how does a black woman do worse in Wayne county than biden did?

It's something only Russian bots know about R142. We've never had them in the USA. the majority of Americans don't give a fuck about terms like "socialist." They do hate "woke" but that's just because they resent people different from them expecting common courtesy.

Racism is the only reason for that. For decades they have been blaming Coleman Young for Detroit when Detroiit's depopulation started more than twenty years before he appeared on the scene.

Exactly what I'm saying R143. It's too raw now but we will need to learn what these voters were thinking. And I don't mean that in the usual disgusted-incredulous way, "WTF were they thinking?"

If Democrats want to win the next election, Democrats will need to understand last night from the perspectives of those who voted for Trump and for the GOP. There has been a naive belief that we just need time to pass, and the browning of America and the die-off of Old White Boomers would usher in a new era of Progressive Liberalism. Like the young and the non-white are in the Dems' pocket.

A lot will need to be re-thought. And far better understood.

Indeed, I was reading about land use in Detroit and it turns out downtown started a downward spiral by 1920, the beginning of the glory years of the auto industry, and it reached its nadir around 1960, after which it stabilized and now has begun to improve, attracting literally billions in development. But rest of Detroit has become about 40% vacant land, a natural outgrowth of the uneconomic "company town" that Detroit has become.

We do understand their perspectives R146. They are hateful bigots and evil. That's all there is to it. A Nazi is a Nazi is a Nazi.

Fuck woke R144

it’s been a loser for the Dems. Everyone pretty much is sick of woke. Time to move on and toughen up and quit acting like defeated pussies which of course is what we are today.

As for non-whites and young falling for incel driven faux masculinity, well that didn't happen in the black community. Why not? Because the black community has stronger non-family social structure. Remember how in olden times everyone belonged to social club s, or ethnic clubs, or unions? Nobody does anymore. Their only social activities are either online or church and when your opinion makers are corrupt frauds, you can become a victim of disorganized thinking because neither the pastors nor online people of the Andrew Tate variety have any interests in common with the flock. Just the opposite. Their interest are best served by the failure of their flock.

Too soon.

It’s difficult to speak about being more respectful of Trump voters when most of them think it’s acceptable to scream “Fuck Joe Biden” at the sitting president. We all saw Trump in action over the past few months and anyone who viewed that and thought he was still vote worthy is too far gone.

Most of this vote reflects the global trend of punishing incumbent governments during high inflation - it happens everywhere, to left or right leaning governments. If Trump had won in 2020 it would be an electoral wipeout for the GOP right now.

Democrats absolutely have to return to economic over cultural issues, and from what we can see across the world, being tough on “illegal’ immigration is essential, no matter how unpalatable it is to decent minded people who hate to see people punished for simply wanting a better life.

[quote] I think I feel worse tonight than I did in 2016. The people surrounding Trump now (JD Vance, Tucker Carlson, Musk, Peter Thiel, RFK Jr., Gabbard, etc.) are far more dangerous than the crew he had last time.

It's going to much worse this time around.

Get over the idea that republicans will come to their senses if only they have to pay a price. That isn’t how they think because they aren’t rational. They don’t consider any hardship a price, they consider it an offering to their god Trump to help him own the libs.

These are the people who love their guns more than their kids.

Armageddon for real.

Buyt inflation hasn't been that high and wages have actually been going up R152. That's what you're not getting. This or that price has gone up, but general price levels have not. Housing prices are rising because rich people have too much money and no place to invest it. That's is a game republicans have played over and over: asset bubbles. The way to fix it is the way suggested by James Madison: tx the rich to mediocrity; and uspport the poor to comfort. That's what he recommended in 1792 because otherwise people would make up imaginary issues to divid the people in order to protect their ill-gotten gains.

And that is precisely what republicans have done. Abortion, homosexulaity, crime: the things no society has ever solved so it's the gift that keeps on giving as a false issue.

I wonder how they are going to handle the next school shooting? More guns? And then after that when another one happens and another one?

Depends on what that price is R154. Attack the leaders only. Each one as an individual. That's the way to make them pay. They've been doing it to the left for years. Indeed, they tried to work up a career ending scandal on Clinton in the early 80s because they marked him out as a coming talent. They do this with everyone they think might matter as an opponent. We need to start systematically identifying their future leaders and destroy their reputations and leadership capacity. And that stars with destroying the billionaires who fund them.

Schools? What’s a school?

Well NYT is making it official.

R158 They won't care because JD said that mass shootings are just part of life or whatever awful shit he said some months back.

All these billionaires have committed multiple crimes.

[quote] That's what you're not getting.

Inflation has been tamed, but that does not mean prices have gone, or are going, down in a way that the average voter can see.

I hope all the people around the country who told everyone repeatedly to stop getting so upset because there was no way Trump could win are happy with themselves. I've said all along that we had all best stop paying much attention to them because we were just setting ourselves up for disaster. Meidas Touch should shut their YouTube channel down today. I never want to see or hear anything from those fools again.

The only comfort I get from this is the thought that it won't take long for most of the halfwits, scumbags & crazies who voted for him to regret casting that vote. He's going to fuck them all over big time. Unfortunately he'll fuck us over first.

The future has never seemed so dark.

"It’s difficult to speak about being more respectful of Trump voters when most of them think it’s acceptable to scream “Fuck Joe Biden” at the sitting president. We all saw Trump in action over the past few months and anyone who viewed that and thought he was still vote worthy is too far gone."

Yes, to be clear, I'm not talking about being deferential or more respectful toward Trump voters. I'm talking about getting smarter and clearer about why so many non-hard-MAGA voters, voted for Trump this time. Moving past the knee jerk "they're all evil and racist and they hate women."

Somehow, we had pretty much the same kinds of Americans in 2008 and 2012 and yet Barack Obama won twice. Something has gone profoundly wrong for the Democrats and the Democrats will need to understand it if there is any hope for 2028 and beyond. Not bow to MAGA, but gain an accurate understanding of what these voters did and what motivated them. Why we had enough to reach and cross 50% for Obama twice, and now this radical pull to the far right has happened in 2024. And yeah today is not that day.

They’re just fine with Trump fucking them over as long as he fucks us over. They were fine with their own families dying of COVID rather than getting them vaxxed in order to not make Trump look bad. That’s how their minds work.

Obama was fortunate to run after 8 years of Bush.

Would he have won today if it was his first run at the White House? I’m not sure. I think the only Democrat who could have won this election was a governor, who could deflect some of the immigration and inflation criticism.

But it's true. None of them "believe" in Trump. They know he is a compulsive liar, a business fraud, a tax cheat, a Russian agent, a corrupt pig who charged the seccret service millions to stay in his hotels, an ignoramus who knows nothing about government, an ignoramus who knows nothing about foriegn policy, a vain strumpent easily manipulated by flattery, and a rapist and pedophile. None of these facts are disputed by any of these people. You keep acting like if we are very careful we will find the key to their character. We've found it. They have no character. They are, every single one of them, a bad person whose death would make the world a better place and they know it.

So tell us how to "reach" them.

I knew people — in their 20s and in their 70s — who voted for Obama twice and then voted for Trump. Why, I have no idea.

People who are going after Trump voters saying they are all bigots and racist and Nazis are mistaken. That might be his base, his core foundation. But what we saw last night was huge numbers of people not in that base - black, brown and all in between voting for Trump. That’s what’s got our heads spinning. He won the popular vote. Our Clocks throughly cleaned.

It’s no secret, it’s the economy - or more how people experience the economy. When people feel they don’t have enough money, you can make any issue a scapegoat.

Dems need to realize Americans care more about money in their pockets than they do their rights or equality.

[quote] They were fine with their own families dying of COVID rather than getting them vaxxed

In fact, a man was dying from Covid and said if he had to do it all over again, he still wouldn’t get vaccinated. Morons all of them.

Thanks R172. You get it. It's those voters I'm talking about. And it's not on Dataloungers to sort it out. And I have no easy answers. But somehow, all over again, the Democratic party not only lost big but is in total shock about it. A great delusion has been popped like a soap bubble in the air. AGAIN.

I was going to take a 4-year vacation from politics if this philistine won AGAIN. No more news channels, news radio, the View…NOTHING. But I've changed my mind because I REALLY want to see how Trump fucks this country over AGAIN.. After all, we deserve it.

I hope he brutalizes, oppresses, deports, de-unionizes, and restricts every person of color, gender, and religion who voted for him. Also? I hope he closes the border so his Latino supporters don’t get to visit their families.

Yeah..I’m bitter and know it MAY affect me. I just want THEM to suffer.

[quote] Dems need to realize Americans care more about money in their pockets than they do their rights or equality.

I think social media is partly to blame. We are inundated with images of people living fabulous lives with fabulous clothes and cars and traveling to beautiful locations. They want a piece of that.

We have a rapist President who shoved his dirty fingernails up E. Jean Carroll's vagina and shoved them around, scraping her and leaving bacterial infections.

Cool.

[quote]People who are going after Trump voters saying they are all bigots and racist and Nazis are mistaken.

ABSOLUTELY. You forgot booger-eating morons.

[quote] I was going to take a 4-year vacation from politics if this philistine won AGAIN

I just finished unsubscribing and blocking every YouTube channel in my favorites list that has anything to do with politics. I hope all the pollsters who predicted a massive Harris win all go out of business. They are just as dangerous, if not more so, than the pollsters who skew pro right wing in their poll results. After this anyone who pays the slightest attention to political polls should have their heads examined.

R179 You know...the fucked-up thing about is that we ALREADY know what's up with polls and how they're utter bullshit, BUT we continue to fall for them every election.

The problem is that when Democrats try to run on an economic platform they are called Communists and Socialists. As a working class person, I had a “dream list” of things I’d like government to do but only Warren and Sanders and AOC publicly support them. They seem to be disliked or loathed here by Dems. And had Kamala moved towards them and co-opted those issues, I think she’d have lost NJ, IL and NY. They would have hammered her with communist ads.

So, what do we do? Trump says “they” as in elites are the issue. I would agree but to me the elites are the billionaires like himself and Musk. He campaigns beside the richest man in the world and people say that he has the economic platform.

So, I don’t know what these people want. Are their desires realistic or fantasy? Do they want to earn 100K with no degree and buy a home for 200K and feed a family for $300 per month and have $1.50 gas? That’s not realistic. And anyone promising it is a charlatan. And a Democrat would be slaughtered for being a fool who knows nothing about the economy.

Sheesh. I don’t know!

R179, I did the same thing. They kept my hope going that Trump was done for a long time and for that matter so did the so called psychics and tarot readers I used to watch but they all were wrong, every single one of ‘em. I used to think they had to know something or they wouldn’t risk making total fools of themselves in videos online…. Boy was I wrong.

Someone above said it but I think the rallies mentally prepared us for a win. The crowds were so large and crazy. She got 75K people to stand in line for hours to hear a speech on a Tuesday. She was getting 20K people in small rust belt cities on weeknights. She aced the debate. His crowds were pitiful at the end. His rhetoric was so dark.

We know that crowds don’t win elections but the energy was 08 levels of excitement. I actually think some of that showed up in later polls which showed women going for her. I think women saw those rallies and the vibes and they were more likely to answer polling calls and texts. Internal polling may have picked that up too.

Then last night it just went wrong from the start. Florida was called quickly. The Texas Senate was called quickly. Then they started bringing up these random counties and showing Biden’s bargains and her margin with only 2% reporting and they were already suggesting she was cooked. There wasn’t one moment of positivity or hope. Election night was as bleak and dark as Trump’s later rallies!

Looking around the map... damn. Mathematically you see instantly how Trump won the popular vote this time. Harris lost Florida by 13 points and Texas by 14 points. She won Virginia by only 5 where Biden won it by 10. And so on, all over.

Gen Z and Gen Alpha don’t care about community or unity or even democracy. They are too busy listening to podcasters and influencers. Social media has destroyed the fabric of society.

The America that Harris so enthusiastically described in her stump speech doesn’t exist. Americans are increasingly selfish, mean, willfully ignorant and incredibly stupid.

Hardis ran a kick ass campaign and would have been a great President. Americans don’t value democracy and want a dictator. Buckle up.

R183 WHAT HAPPENED? Those rallies were intoxicating and gave me hope. I rarely have hope. And by "rarely" I mean never.

R179 is so upset about politics he blocked everyone dealing with politics then came to very political DL to an obvious political thread and had a political discussion about his decision on not engage in politics.,

Some might say you are not a serious person. If you were a serious person you would be doing something else other than discussing politics and the election once again on a political thread,

Next week you will be deep into more political discussions. You will never leave.

I tried not to get my hopes up, but deep down I believed Kamala would win.

Terrible

I bet we will see that GenZ was pretty much a non issue once again as far as voting.

At least I was not the moron telling another DL Dem a few weeks ago to vote for Trump because we did not need or want their vote because they said something we disagreed with.

That poster is the DL idiot of the year. Some would say the American idiot of the year.

My one big hope is that once the trash is in office the military leaders will not kowtow to him and do anything he orders them to do if it's clearly illegal or something that will put us all in danger. Frankly I'm still holding out hope, as wild as it seems, that the military will come in before he's inaugurated and put the US government under military control. Most of our military leaders know he's insane.

I also keep the thought in mind that when things look their worst they rarely if ever happen the way you think they'll happen. I know that a lot of Trump's threats during the campaign will never be carried out. It's just the ones he will carry out that scare the hell out of me. And I hold out hope that if he gets too crazy even many of the republican in Congress will realize something has to be done to stop him.

R187, what the hell is your problem?! Discussing one’s traumatized reaction among like minded people here is hardly the same thing as watching a bunch of clickbaiters on YouTube.

[quote]I bet we will see that GenZ was pretty much a non issue once again as far as voting.

Story as old as time, happens every cycle. The youth has one or two pet issues (Gaza, climate change...) but doesn't turn up to the polls when it matters the most. And thinking that someone like Taylor Swift can change something that is true the world over is laughable.

Trump will just fire any military leaders who don’t kowtow to him. And have them executed.

[quote]My one big hope is that once the trash is in office the military leaders will not kowtow to him and do anything he orders them to do if it's clearly illegal or something that will put us all in danger. Frankly I'm still holding out hope, as wild as it seems, that the military will come in before he's inaugurated and put the US government under military control. Most of our military leaders know he's insane.

r191 Please just stop with this shit, makes you sound like a QAnon nutter. The military follows the guy who signs their checks, end of story.

[quote] R179 is so upset about politics he blocked everyone dealing with politics then came to very political DL to an obvious political thread and had a political discussion about his decision on not engage in politics.,

That has nothing to do with my decision. I cut out all the loudmouths who've worked overtime getting our hopes up. I'm more than happy to talk with people who realize that the worst that could happen can happen. Now we see they are nowhere nearly as smart as they've made themselves out to be. Of course, they're all in it (YouTube) for the money and little else. Ben Meiselas had better get his ass back to his law office. Looks like his days making a mint on YouTube are probably coming to a close.

Also, the military is a conservative institution and the majority of its members are conservative. They're celebrating right now.

[quote]I bet we will see that GenZ was pretty much a non issue once again as far as voting.

Gen Z men showed up for Trump.

Americans on both sides utterly detest on another.

These next four years will be fun to watch.

Time for a national abortion ban, ACA repeal, vaccine ban, pardoning all 1/6 insurrectionists, more conservatives on SCOTUS, huge tax cuts for the rich, mass deportations, tariff on everything, and on and on.

This is exactly what America voted for. Give America what it wants

R164 and how will trump lower that inflation ?

More popular vote data. Here in NJ, Kamala Harris only won by 5 points. That is a drastic shift. Biden beat Trump by 16 points in 2020. Trump did 11 points better here in NJ last night.

Meidas Touch Network was the first YouTube channel I thought of. I think a lot of them started out with the best of intentions but with some of them, you could just kinda tell they were phoning it in the past several months or longer.

R191 once again asking for an overthrow of the US govt by our military because our side lost. The US military from day learns one thing follow the constitution and respect the civilian leaders. Day two and e dry day after.

And please every order a potus makes has the possibility of putting people in danger. If the order is to go in and support Ukraine that’s exactly what our troops will do. If the order is to go in and help Russia that is exactly what our troops will do. Our troops will shoot whoever they are told to shoot.

We lost. We lost the popular vote. America has spoken..

If units are out together to send US teams into Mexico South America or south la to attack drug gangs there will be a waiting line of wannabe shooters trying to get into that unit. People will be reupping to get into those units.

And explain to me exactly what you see as an illegal order that our military leaders will not follow? Name one.

We fall for them because they are non-stop and they report on nothing else. Constant, constant.

[quote] Gen Z and Gen Alpha don’t care about community

There is absolute truth here. I volunteer for a few groups that are struggling because younger people are not volunteering. As older people leave, they are not being replaced.

I am convinced it is because younger people find community online rather than offline - and online communities are filled with manipulation and misinformation.

I think we are seeing that a country like America is too big to be a functioning democracy.

I think we are seeing a Russian Troll gloating.

R206 we lost last night but democracy won. This is how it’s supposed to work. Those with the most votes win.

We just don’t like the results that democracy has given us

r206, but for the previous 250 years?

OH SHIT! I just woke up.

[quote] If Democrats want to win the next election,

They will never win another election.

Be practical and have an escape plan.

Be happy that Peter Thiel is running the country.

At least there’s someone that may spare some gays.

Rich ones.

When I scroll through TikTok, in addition to the usual Agatha All Along videos on my For You Page, I see video after video by young men celebrating Trump’s victory. I usually have a lot of videos of young men on the feed, but they are usually showing VPL and gay baiting, but now they’re celebrating,

Trump will hand Ukraine over to Putin.

Absolutely. Zelensky is in serious danger now.

Here comes Project 25.

I would say this is a sound rebuke of the progressive wing of the Democrats. When Biden decided to drop out- too late, let's face it- there was a chorus of "you'd better put forth a black woman or else we'll sit out the election" from progressives.

But I doubt they will be willing to take a look at themselves like that. They'd rather be righteous than win.

Hell, even some people of color (men and women) in swing states chose Trump over her (especially working class Latinos, I'll bet), so misogyny is alive and well.

R206 and R207 my point being that there are no other nations as big as ours that are democracies. And as we JUST saw, yes albeit through a democratic process, 88 million people voted fora leader with autocratic tendencies who has publicly stated he wants to do away with the constitution the democracy is founded on. Maybe huge populations drift to very centralized leadership instead of a segmented governance elected by 200 million voices.

It’s more a question I’m posing than a final outcome. America is the Great Experiment. It wouldn’t have been called that if we knew exactly how it would go. And who knows with this new leadership where it will go. This could be a blip or a great shift. But when powers that be tell you the country might not be able to withstand what’s coming down the pipeline, it does make you question if everything that has been can or will last.

The clown show of cabinet picks, along with a Republican-controlled Senate, there will be easy confirmations. We really are fucked.

Reaching for a silver lining here, but -- re: R211 and all those fearing the instant end of vote-based Democracy in the USA.

Why the hell would that need to happen, from a Trumpist POV, when Trump shat out the worst campaign ever and then slouched through a total POPULAR vote victory? The system we have, as is, worked like a fucking charm for him last night. Any MAGA incentive to kill it, just went away or at least it got reduced.

I do believe in democracy. If this outcome is what the majority voted for, and it is, then they are 100% entitled to see it enacted. I predict it won't go well, and a majority will choose otherwise in the near future. But if you believe in democracy you have to grudgingly accept a loss when most voters disagree with you.

Ukraine is toast but soon a lot less citizens of the Ukraine will be killed in combat. The US and Russia will be on more friendly terms. I’d be surprised to see the Europeans support this without the US.

I have been wrong before. But maybe in four years I will look back and see this as a position day today—-unlikely because of my age but I hope for the best anyway for the country and things do improve..

[quote]The country has moved away from the values of DL.

Elise Jordan agreed with you on Morning Joe just now: "The progressive era should be over if you want to start winning again."

Democracy killed Democracy on Nov 2025. Now would be a good time to read Project 2025. It's what the country will look like in a very short time.

Blame right wing assholes who hate women and immigrants more than they love their country

French news is saying something about accusations of fraud from the Trump camp. From? They won.

In 2020 Biden won the popular vote 81M to 75M.

So far Harris has 66M to Trump's 71M. The counts are still being tabulated but I believe overall perhaps as much as 10M people didn't bother to vote this time around.

I've read the entire document R223. It sits on my desktop for easy access. It's much more terrifying than the average person knows. I'm sure almost nobody has read it through.

Now it's going to happen. And fast. After abortion, we gays are their next top target and they are properly organized this time. Now that the GOP have the senate and house they don't even need the plethora of executive orders which Project 2025 has drawn up. They don't even need them. They can do absolutely anything they want. Codified gay marriage can be reversed with a bill proposing its overturning and nullification. Gay rights, legal protections and anti-discrimination laws can all nullified with no resistance whatsoever.

For those who aren't aware - as soon as Trump took office in 2017, he had all mention of LGBT people removed from federal government websites. Totally scrubbed off the internet. Have a think about that.

Yet STILL we have clueless gays telling us how Trump and MAGA have absolutely no issues with gay people and that they only hate the transes.

[quote] The counts are still being tabulated but I believe overall perhaps as much as 10M people didn't bother to vote this time around.

At the moment, CA is 7 million fewer counted than 2020 total, so there’s the bulk of the difference.

My mind returns to the woke progressives in 2016 who bear so much responsibility for ushering in this Trump era. It’s like the parents of small children welcoming a pedophile into their home. Nothing good can come from that.

The people have spoken … the bastards.

R227 I just noticed that and I believe all hope for Harris was based on a historic turn out and a massive turn out of women. Which kills me because we have a massive swing towards a nasty autocrat chosen by a small minority. When they ban gay marriage and gay adoption and surrogacy it will be because 35% of the country voted Trump. This was easily missed because she drew crowds everywhere as did Tim Walz. JD had 10 guys in a parking lot. Tim was getting thousands on his own. There was an enthusiasm mirage.

The algorithm is also worth mentioning. I bet there are millions of people who never saw clips from Harris events in their feed. They got all the Trump lies and propaganda. Heck, I was getting that in my feed of Golden Girls memes and shirtless men. I can only imagine the feed of a 25 year old gamer or an old Christian woman.

Time will tell but it seems that her campaign did not have any inkling that she was in trouble as Clinton’s did. Clinton’s team knew in the last few days and scaled down celebrations. Harris’s team was building a big stage at Howard and Ann Selzer had her up 3 and the NYT had her winning Arizona and Georgia by 3. Even the Trumpy (but accurate in 16 and 20) Tipp poll had Harris +1 nationally at the end. So even they missed the support he would get nationally.

Where did you get the 35% from R232?

[quote]French news is saying something about accusations of fraud from the Trump camp. From? They won.

"I won more biggly than what they're saying! Fake news!"

We have capitalism on steroids in both the US and Canada. People are renting out closets in Vancouver for $800 a month. Liberals have screwed over the working class in favour of their billionaire donors. Of course Trump will be a million times worse but poor and uneducated people don't care they want to "own the libs". This combined with disinformation/misinformation is lethal to democracy.

I have also never seen a more apathetic and self interested generation as Gen Z. All the liberals said that they would turnout en masse. They didn't and the men voted for Trump when they did.

Well you wanted your authoritarian leader and you got him.

The accusations of fraud have to keep going to erode people's faith in democracy.

Holy fuck - America is doomed.

America is over.

America never really existed. It was stolen, built and sustained by slavery, and only white males had any rights for more than half of its existence. It’s really nothing but PR.

35% is just a very rough estimate based on turnout. Looks like around 65% of us voted for Kamala or stayed home or could not vote because they don't have citizenship.

Never underestimate the hatred of your relatives,friends and neighbors.

And it was just a few hours ago we were making fun of that dork JD and how he had tanked his career hitching it to trump.

President Vance

By end of 2026 at the latest.

They stopped updating the real numbers so it's quite possible we won the popular vote since the west coast numbers are still very low.

As of 2023 there are 262,083,034 eligible voters in the US. Roughly 138,000,000 people voted. We can blame the 124, 083, 034 non-voters for this travesty.

Literally 50% of eligible voters sat this election out.

158,429,631 voted in 2020. That's roughly 35 million people who voted last time and didn't vote this time, when the stakes were THIS high. Who are these fucking people, sitting out this election, of all possible elections?

What happened to all those massive early turnout claims. I remember seeing 150% of the 2020 turnout is already hit blah blah. I am shocked to see how low turnout actually was.

[quote] 158,429,631 voted in 2020. That's roughly 35 million people who voted last time and didn't vote this time,

And the 2020 election was in the middle of a deadly pandemic, and people still turned out to vote in higher numbers than this time.

As R243 points out so well, things would be different , if we could get the dumb clueless ignorant of politics who normally don’t give a shit about voting to show up and vote.

Sort of a blueprint for a 1000 year maga reign,

r245 Doesn't get much more damning that that, does it? In that respect, Biden's presidency was an utter failure. It was far from that, of course, but I fear history will not judge him kindly.

R247 if only Biden had listened to Obama and Nancy and dropped out of a 2nd term race to allow a primary.

R249 I know one thing, count your days migrants, count your mother fucking days!

It’s going to be very interesting from here on out

Re: R249, yet a NYC jury convicted Trump.

[quote]America never really existed. It was stolen, built and sustained by slavery, and only white males had any rights for more than half of its existence. It’s really nothing but PR.

It's absurd statements like this that alienated what is clearly millions of voters and lost this election.

IT'S THE VAGINA STUPID. We ran two women for POTUS . One white. One black. Both more qualified then their male opponent. In 2024 the black one lost just not the MALE vote but the FEMALE vote. Fish get back in the sea.

82 year old democrat and I could not vote for Harris. sadly the right one won.

Harris isn't qualified to be president

[quote]And Oprah?

Eating praline waffles and ice cream until her gastric bypass bursts?

[quote] Fish get back in the sea.

Nope. Because a country that will not vote for a woman will not vote a gay man. When women lose, we lose.

You're 82 and think Kamala isn't qualified but Trump is? Get out troll.

Kamala lost because she was a dull candidate, the very image of a well meaning, dithering liberal. Trump, narcissistic and psychotic as he is, comes across as strong. I mean, isn't everyone here terrified of the asshole? That's strength, and some people respect strength above all else.

Kamala should never have been the candidate, and only assumed the role because people were afraid of the fallout for not nominating the vice president woman of color.

[quote] Kamala lost because she was a dull candidate

Kamala delivered with her convention speech & the debate, but I agree she had nothing much to offer. Of course, in comparison to her opponent ....

I thought it was because another candidate could not take over Biden's money which was substantial.

Gretchen, Josh or Andy 100 days out starting from 0 with no money and no team (Kamala also knew Biden's people form the last election) would have seen Regan level wipe out because Trump is a titanium cult leader.

Because dumb shits wanted to be popular and be a mean girl like Trump. The mean girls rule the school and subconsciously people like that.

[quote]Nope. Because a country that will not vote for a woman will not vote a gay man. When women lose, we lose.

R257, women don't even vote for women. So there's that. I must say quietly but honestly - it's kind of liberating. Why should I, as a gay man who will never have kids, care more about a women's reproductive rights than actual fucking American women? Not my problem anymore. I mean women are a mess. 10% of the population got enough of a coalition to get a (although likely doomed) Marriage Equality Act together in the span of twenty five years and women STILL don't have equal pay after 100 years of being able to vote AND being the majority of voters. A mess.

R263, it's your sexism in addition with other men than prevents women from being able to get ahead.

Thoughts:

1. America, again, wasn't willing to have a woman president, never mind a woman of color.

2. Kamala wasn't a particularly visible VP and before she became a candidate, wasn't even particularly well-liked. I proudly voted for her and thought she would have been a good president. But it's not about someone like me. It's about those iffy voters who look for reasons not to vote for someone, imagining some perfect scenario.

3. Trump is a devil we know. Even people who think he's nuts have a comfort level with him (they really shouldn't) because he's a known entity. People normalize things. Plus he's never left the spotlight since losing the presidency and ran as a semi-incumbent thanks to the media. Obviously many people want to vote for him no matter. But the "comfort" thing may have pushed people who found a reason to not vote for Kamala to actually vote for Trump.

4. The economy? The party in power gets blamed for the economy no matter. Normal people don't care about the minutiae of government-released statistics. They care about how they feel about their financial situation - and we all lived through a massive inflationary period and saw, starkly, prices rise quickly.

5. "Their interests." The coastal liberal idea that a wide swath of working and middle class whites are voting "against their interests" by voting Republican and maybe come election day they'll realize that doing so is a mistake just doesn't pan out. Their interest is having a president in their image, and on top of that their interest is making sure "others" don't have what they see as undeserved and don't have the means (rights, jobs, money) to fight back.

If the Dem party loses women as their foundation they might as well close up shop and retire. Women and abortion are just bout the only things motivating Dem voters . Without them we are fucked. Christ we lost white blue color workers, black males, Hispanics especially Hispanic males, the rural vote, and now you are saying we don’t need women.

And BTW gay men are less than 2% of the population and women pretty close to 50%.

R263

Democracy has died, Clearly the system has been highjacked in today's reality. There are too many factors to corrupt the process now. Lobbyists, media consolidation. The 2 party system and special interests have ruined Democracy. Democracies time has passed and the putrid orange stain is ushering in the next thing. We will be seeing more of a command system that just pushes shit down hill and scams the benefits for themselves. He brought us a third world system of governance. The rich rule, period.

The only thing that gives me any comfort is the thought that once it all goes to hell, and it will fairly quickly, it's more likely that the brainless fools who voted for Trump will suffer much more than those of us who didn't.

r267 Plutocracy

gay men who identify as gay.... never mind the self hating ones who claim bi or straight and vote Trump. So the question is now, what are our options? We can't count on Biden making any laws from now to Jan Trump will just reverse them. We can't count on the Supreme Court, he will most certainly stack and pack it. He has congress, he has the Senate, He has the supreme court and the popular vote. Project 2025 is defacto now, we are just waiting for the first pen swipe to get things rolling. The only way out is through and I doubt after this Dems will have a majority ever. I am seriously considering moving to Puerto Vallarta. Cash out everything I have and just live off that till I die in Mexico. Any other options?

Are you fucking kidding me R264 with that shit right now? Today of ALL days? You need to talk several seats with that mess considering it was women who just handed over their bodies to the government by the ballot box full, massive turnout from females for TRUMP. Sexism, sheesh. Here is a little secret - women have proven themselves to be no longer victims - you're historically enablers. That rather sing songs about "Who Run the World?" in America than actually do it.

r245, that is terrible

[quote]5. "Their interests." The coastal liberal idea that a wide swath of working and middle class whites are voting "against their interests" by voting Republican and maybe come election day they'll realize that doing so is a mistake just doesn't pan out. Their interest is having a president in their image, and on top of that their interest is making sure "others" don't have what they see as undeserved and don't have the means (rights, jobs, money) to fight back.

indeed, we from the left thinking about their interests clearly isn't helping elect the right people.

What a fucking ass kicking.

r10 White women hate women. Black women voted for hillary clinton and Kamala harris

[quote] Any other options?

Nope, we the people were the last guardrail because everything else failed to restrain him. Now, the people have failed, and have handed him the Senate, the Courts and possibly the House. That was it. He has unchecked power now.

Fasten your seatbelts kids.

Yeah, I can’t believe he’ll end the documents case, the insurrection case, Judge Merchan would be a fool to sentence him later this month - he’d put his and his family’s lives on the line to do so and it’s not worth that. Biden had better pardon Hunter on his way out the door or that’ll never end.

Was Fani Willis re-elected? He won GA, there’s no point in continuing the RICO case.

The entire rule of law, down the drain. Unbelievable.

So which country is the oldest democracy in the world now?

Fuck Hunter. He did nothing but hurt. Time to start thinking about 2026 and 2028. If this does not get straightened out we could see decades of gop rule.

My friend said the following:

'I sat down with a drink, Kornacki zoomed in on a Puerto Rican county in Florida. He said 'let's check the margins after MSG.' The margin was better than 2020 and that was it. From that moment, the air was sucked out of the studio'

YES! Looking back there wasn't one moment of joy. 5 minutes in there seemed to be an inevitability in the MSNBC studio. After all the talk of new registrations and ground game, it looks like the turnout was shit. It looks like he got 15 million fewer votes while Trump got just under his 2020 number. We lost races where Dems won every other down ballot race. It was a weird election.

[quote] I am seriously considering moving to Puerto Vallarta. Cash out everything I have and just live off that till I die in Mexico. Any other options?

Leaving the country is what you should do. Take that option.

Don't worry, we got this in 2028. Really. Seriously.

I made a post maybe 10-12 days ago. It was about a CNN segment that showed Trumps popularity increasing somewhat significantly from 2016 to 2020 to 2024.

Of course I was called a Russian troll and stupid and that data could not possibly have been true—-but that cnn segment should have been a real warning.

[quote]Basically, there is no such thing as the "Latino vote". There's the Mexican-American vote, the Puerto Rican vote, the Cuban vote, etc.

What white people have never understood is that the various Latino ethnic groups fucking hate each other. They're basically the same as the various European ethnic groups, who have been fucking hating each other for hundreds and hundreds of years.

oh lets not forget he is pardoning all the jan 6th traitors

This is Weimar 1933. Leave now. By 2028 it will be too late.

As I posted elsewhere, it won’t be long before Latino voters will be fully assimilated with all white voters. Just as what happened to Americans of Italians & Polish descent, who once were singled out by politicians.

R287 it won’t happen, Latinos would like to, because they feel like they belong as much as white people do to America.but white racism see them as the others. They have exotic features and they will never be accepted as whites.

[quote]Well, it is a great irony, [R75], that the Jews have solidified the rise of fascism in the world.

God you people are so tiresome.

r288 it very much depends on what they look like. Short brown native types will never be "White." But taller, attractive, more Euro-looking examples will, even if they have darker skin tone.

Yep. We lost it because the Biden administration had a bad immigration policy and people drank the kool-aid that this alone increased violent crime. (Not counting city and state policies that were soft on crime). People bought into fear, xenophobia and racism and they showed up to vote that way.

R 290 that would be the Cubans, however, the new gen z generation that are coming from Cuba are clearly very mixed unlike my generation and they clearly do not have pure european features but rather more mixed race ones. These Cubans are about to experience something that they never thought was possible in this country as they will see what racism is really like if they go outside their safe zone in miami

It sounds like you wish extreme racism in the US was still rampant so brown looking people could suffer more.

If Kamala lost because Americans won’t vote for a black female, why did the Democrats nominate a black female?

Biden followed the law with immigration policy and then hoped Congress would do its job and write a new immigration law.

But the GOP loves to run on immigration and always blocks proposed new immigration laws.

Trump was able to keep pounding that illegals are invading, when in actuality, they are here legally through our asylum process.

But details don't matter to a public that like sound bites.

[quote] why did the Democrats nominate a black female?

Dems know they cant win without the Black vote. Blacks didn't come out for Hillary because she had no one Black on her team. Biden learned and added Kamala specifically for that one reason--and Blacks came out.

[quote] It sounds like you wish extreme racism in the US was still rampant so brown looking people could suffer more.

We just learned half of America is rather fine with the racism from the right, even the presidential candidiate.

If Kamala lost because Americans won’t vote for a liberal why did the Democrats nominate a liberal?

If Kamala lost because Americans won’t vote for someone that supports trans/ gay rights why did the Democrats nominate someone that supports trans/ gay rights?

With a small word change you can also insert California among other words if you want. In fact there is no limit to how many words you can insert into this game.

r292 I'm not even talking specifically about Cubans. They could be from anywhere. Guys like this magat from El Salvador will be drafted into whiteness in the future.

Not understanding why Dems didn't hit Trump harder on him torpedoing the bipartisan border bill

[quote] But the GOP loves to run on immigration and always blocks proposed new immigration laws.

No, if the GOP takes control of the House, they will immediately pass HR2 again, the same as they did in this Congress.

[quote] If Kamala lost because Americans won’t vote for someone that supports trans/ gay rights

Americans will vote for someone who supports gay rights.

R51 Starting a war and losing doesn’t make you a victim of genocide. During WWII, 3,810,000 German civilians were killed. Was Germany a victim of genocide? On 10/7/23, Palestinians invaded Israel to commit the largest attack on Jews since the Holocaust. They still hold a one year old and five year old hostage.

Consider that Jews, like myself, are sick of the antisemitism of the left. Sick of Jewish students being harassed on campus. Sick of the support of the murder, kidnapping and rape of Jews. Sick of Arab’s desire for another genocide of Jews. Sick of all of it.

Then don’t be surprised when Jews don’t vote for the party that supports all of that.

[quote]If Kamala lost because Americans won’t vote for a black female, why did the Democrats nominate a black female?

Because in recent years, Democrats have become obsessed with putting "women of color" in positions of power whatever the cost.

When Biden dropped out suddenly in the summer, this allowed them to replace him with Kamala, so they became obsessed with electing not only the first female president but the first WOC.

That's all they cared about.

R392 sorry but that was not the point. It was a reference to this comment

“If Kamala lost because she is a black female why did the Dems nominate a black female?”

The fact is this was never going to be the Dems year

What’s the worst thing that can happen to the democratic party? That the next four or eight years are a popular success.

[quote] Not understanding why Dems didn't hit Trump harder on him torpedoing the bipartisan border bill

Kamala said it at every speech. Men didn't care

"Massive ground games" mean nothing in the age of Lex Fridman and Joe Rogan. The Dems don't understand young male voters and don't understand how to create spaces that feel non-judgemental, fun, and inclusive for young men and poor people who didn't go to college.

[quote] Consider that Jews, like myself, are sick of the antisemitism of the left. Sick of Jewish students being harassed on campus. Sick of the support of the murder, kidnapping and rape of Jews. Sick of Arab’s desire for another genocide of Jews. Sick of all of it.

So, reward the side that chants, "Jews will not replace us?" Sure, that will work out great

I wonder what the TikTokers for Palestine will think this time next year after Bibi wipes out Gaza with Trump's support. 🤔

[quote] Starting a war and losing doesn’t make you a victim of genocide. During WWII, 3,810,000 German civilians were killed. Was Germany a victim of genocide? On 10/7/23, Palestinians invaded Israel to commit the largest attack on Jews since the Holocaust. They still hold a one year old and five year old hostage.

I don't want to convert this thread into a Palestinian vs Israel thread, but Palestinians didn't start the war. Israel is an apartheid state, even if the US props it up and Israel pretends it's a democracy. Israel has suppressed Palestinians since its founding. Yes, Hamas is a terrorist group, but it's convenient that we don't call countries with armies terrorist countries, As for genocide, we now know Israel is as fine with killing Palestinians as vice versa.

[quote]Not understanding why Dems didn't hit Trump harder on him torpedoing the bipartisan border bill

The people that voted for him don't care about a "bipartisan border bill." That is abstract to them. It's nothing. It doesn't register. They want the mass deportations. They want the cruelty. That's the stark cold reality.

The border is an abstract concept to most Americans. Just because the right trumpets "open borders" doesn't make it true. Just because the right trumpets "terrible economy" doesn't make it true.

The GOP is expert at scaring Americans with some made up problems (kids are getting trans surgeries! Immigrants are raping and taking your jobs!). The Dems try way to hard to be the party of reason. That doesn't win votes.

Dems only win when there is a economic crisis, always caused by the GOP.

What did the unhappiest person in the world say earlier today?

“If only I had not blabbed about shooting that fucking dog”

[quote] America is the Great Experiment.

And today that experiment failed. This is who we are. By popular vote. By majority.

You can now say, the Majority of Americans are racist, sexist, homophobic, MAGA. Those of us who are not, are just aberrations.

[quote] The GOP is expert at scaring Americans with some made up problems (kids are getting trans surgeries! Immigrants are raping and taking your jobs!).

Yes, there won't be another word about all of those little boys having 'brutal operations' during their lunch break. I almost wish that he was smarter and slicker. It physically hurts me to think that people believe those absurd lies.

R316, he has the luxury of not having to be smart or slick. His base are bamboozled fools with zero critical thinking skills. There’s a reason why the gop has been advocating for defunding public education for a long time now. The dumber the populace, the easier it is for them to believe the most outlandish and ridiculous lies that are constantly crammed down their gullets. At this point, they willingly open their mouths while trump and co. feed them bullshit, all the while screaming ‘more, MORE!’

I had said last week that this would be a Trump blowout and everyone said I was nuts. I was right yet again. I was hoping to be wrong but the guy made a pact with the devil.

Your comment reminded me that the cycle will continue. He will destroy public education. A Dem will probably win in 2028. He will be blamed for poor schools so a Republican will win in 2032. Ugh. Her DNC speech and debate were total perfection, cannot believe he won so easily.

Anyone watching the concession speech? She looks and sounds so presidential. Too good for this garbage can full of stupid people.

I am sort of tearing up, she's a better person than I am, it it were me I dont think I could make the speech honestly.

I didn’t tear up until I heard Joy Reid’s reaction.

Nice speech. It moved Claire McCaskill to tears.

[quote]Anyone watching the concession speech? She looks and sounds so presidential.

It sounded like it was written by AI.

You must believe in yourself, you have the power, we must do the work, and we love to work, and when we work, we work hard. I believe in you and I believe in the power that all of us have no matter who we are, no matter what race or gender or belief we hold in our hands. We will not give up, we will move forward unencumbered by the past, only looking toward the future....

That's Kamala Harris.

[quote]If Kamala lost because Americans won’t vote for a liberal why did the Democrats nominate a liberal?

Americans WILL vote for a "liberal" Look at Obama. Even Hillary won the popular vote.

[quote] If Kamala lost because Americans won’t vote for someone that supports trans/ gay rights why did the Democrats nominate someone that supports trans/ gay rights?

Well, there you have a point.

R325 Well then you made the point. Americans will also vote for a black (Obama won) and they will vote for a woman ( Clinton won the popular vote)

Trump just kicked our ass. Trump is a fucking force of nature. He is immune from what would tank anyone else at my other point in time,

He is totally and completely unique in American history, If I ever learn that Trump is not of this world I will not be even a little surprised,

Obama supported gay rights and did well. But you can't just go "trans/gay" rights like those are the same thing. They are not.

R327 is correct. The trans thing is what killed it.

All the pundits are trying to find that magic quality that enabled a wheezy 78-yr. old felon to win. But it's simple: a bunch of rednecks just didn't want a colored woman in the top spot.

^ Rednecks? She won with the help of 55% of Hispanic men and 42% of the youth vote.

^ Oooops: HE won.

The one thing about losers is that they will come up with lots of excuses why they lost.nits usually it’s someone else’s fault.

Maybe America just got tired of an America that looked and sounded like DL? What if we are part of the problem?

We? Speak for yourself. I did all I can do to not get Dump elected.

I agree Trans are really unpopular overall and any time trans rights become an issue, people want to vote against them.

But I still don't think they were a huge part of Kamala's loss here, despite all the ads. The biggest thing seems to be people latch onto this inflation narrative and like a dog with a bone just never let go. Biden was the Inflation Candidate, and then she became the Inflation Candidate, and that actually seems to be a thing that happened around the world. Everybody in the post-covid economy of the past few years turned into some weird Jan Economist: Inflation, Inflation, Inflation!!!

I think Repugs 3 top issues:

1. The Economy 2. The Border 3. Tran in sports

I'm ok financially and have cut back on eating out because it's gotten so expensive. I can't imagine how a lower middle class family is coping with high prices. Inflation is a reality for people. Not addressing it doomed the Dems. Plus the "woke" agenda is loathed by the vast majority including many POC

R336, the Biden/Harris administration made their situation far, far worse when they tried the ludicrous tack of saying that the economy was actually great and people just didn’t realize that. Telling people that the higher grocery prices they continue to pay even now was in all in their head, when people could see the current prices and compare to what they knew the old prices were, was insane as a campaign tactic.

Maybe the voting counts are wrong. I'll grasp at any straw right now.

It's about housing, groceries and taxes. They're all too high. And migrants getting free housing, health care and debit cards did the Democrats no favors.

He went to NC four times in the days before the election. Every Democrat on the ballot won except Harris who lost by 350,000. Even his internal polling showed her ahead.

It's about housing, groceries and taxes

And he never gave any policy on any of these. He's just going to fix them. Magic. Whoosh. People are so stupid.

R341, part of the vote is punishing the Biden/Harris administration for the high inflation they caused, regardless of whether or not Trump has a plan for it.

[quote]It's about housing, groceries and taxes

No you left out one very important one. He campaigned on Trans issues. 30 million just for that one topic alone. Stop trying to gaslight us that it had nothing to do with it. Not saying it's the only thing, but it's in the top 3 of most MAGA.

We lost because the people who voted for biden in 2020 did not vote for Kamala. Either they decided not to or could not due to voting law changes. Less people voted for Trump than in 2020, but not like Kamala. The dem drop in voters was close to 30 million overall. I blame those people.

Stolen election

Wrong, Trump over preformed in over 3,000 counties than he did the last time. He literally got more votes regardless of Dems who did not vote.

We lost because the people who voted for biden in 2020 did not vote for Kamala. Either they decided not to or could not due to voting law changes.

Huh?

[quote]Less people voted for Trump than in 2020, but not like Kamala.

Oh, dear.

All I know is that switching channels and coming across Erin Burnett, I think she looks from her shit-eating grin like she’s having one orgasm after another in reaction to Trump having won.

R309 Open your eyes. It’s already working.

Y’all, here is our problem. It’s white heterosexual men, specifically “Christians” but also non. We need to have alpha white males who know how to get right into their grills. This is a cultural strategy. And we also must use their own language against them. Watch Tony White discussing the Dem challenger to Josh Hawley (he was perfection, but Missouri is still not within reach). We’ve got lots of cultural issues with men. Dem challenger is a *master* at it and we need to elevate him. We need *working class males* no more Ivy Leaguers need apply!!!!

Second, there are Truisms in politics. One is that it’s always about money. Whether we like it or not, Rethugs succeeded in creating the *perception* the economy is bad. They won that battle. Second Truism is order. People crave order. I love Joe truly. But there are several huge things that caused a perception of chaos vs order. Afghanistan. Cities and retail theft. 1/6. The Border. I could keep going. I don’t blame Joe for any of these — but they won this war too. They made Joe look like he brings chaos.

I could keep going, but you feel me. But no Monday morning quarterbacking either. I’m so proud of them, there’s no shame to their game, only learnings for us. Yes, there were some mistakes made by her campaign, BUT she still kicked-ass and Tim did too. Remember, you can answer 99 questions, but if you get the 1 Big One wrong, you’re fucked. We missed on money and order — the Truisms. MONEY is a Big One.

We need to demand a mini- primary before the mid-terms. Let’s grab all our younger talent off the bench and see them flex so we can see who is strongest going into midterms. I will never stop fighting these fucks, that’s a MFing promise. 🏴‍☠️🦍☠️💙

r350 = Teacake on yet another binge.

[quote] We need to demand a mini- primary before the mid-terms.

the fuck you talking about? there's actually usually a primary battle for Senate and congressional nominees. Is that the already happening mini primary you're asking for? Or just some weird beauty contest in which possible future nominees all come out to preen? The hell do you want, bitch?

Also generous of you not to blame Joe Biden for January 6th.

[quote] People crave order.

And they listened to Trump and decided, "Yes, I'm sure he'll bring order instead of chaos"?

So I had this dream. And in it, Mitch McConnell died. And Trump, Vance, Stephen Miller, Flynn and Stone are on a plane going to the funeral.....

....which crashed....

R354 is clearly Mike Johnson

I don't think R354 carefully constructed his dream.

More like Law and Order SVU.

[quote]And they listened to Trump and decided, "Yes, I'm sure he'll bring order instead of chaos"?

With immigration they probably do expect that. More order at the border with a necessary harsh crackdown on people trying to enter.

R310 I would have wiped out Gaza on 10/8/23.

Here’s an interesting fact…It’s been over 150 years since a Democratic candidate succeeded another Democrat that didn’t involve the 1st Democrat dying in office.

"... how a lower middle class family is coping with high prices. Inflation is a reality for people"

This will be fixed on Day 1!

Our Menfolk run our pussies.

From the moment Biden stepped down until I voted November 5th, I was swept up in Kamala Joy. But upon reflection, in the cold light of day, it's so clear how much was missing from Kamala's campaign. Lot's of joy, hope and enthusiasm, and not enough specifics.

Her campaign was primarily "They are weird as hell! We are normal and sane. You don't want that, you want this." But what is "this" in real terms? "An opportunity economy." And what is that? She barely scratched the surface.

She did not address the border crisis well. She blamed Trump for influencing repubs in Congress to tank the Border Bill. Okay, that's the past. What is your specific plan for the future? She never really said.

I could see why, if your are undecided, and Trump is telling you "They're eating the dogs!" and "They are letting in rapists and insane people! These Dems are pussies. we are losing our country!" you might be stimulated vote for Trump, who seems unafraid to speak bluntly and adress the elephants in the room. I too don't understand why we are bringing in so many South Americans, it is a huge problem for us, and a burden on us. Giving them hotel rooms and preloaded credit cards is truly unhinged. Kids in cages is so fucked up. I totally understand why republicans think it is all insane, because it is. This is not where any citizen's tax money should be going. It's bonkers. We need actions, and solutions.

So in 2024 Trump got 71 million votes. Kamala got 67 million. Biden received more than 81 million votes, the most votes ever cast for a candidate in a U.S. presidential election in 2020. Trump got 74 million. So basically Trump got about the same minus 3 million. Kamala got 14 million less than Biden. You can talk about flipping counties and conversion of voters but in reality - the republicans come out in the same numbers in every election cycle in terms of amounts. For some reason, Covid, stricter voting laws or lack of interest - 14 million people did not vote.

[quote] Giving them hotel rooms and preloaded credit cards is truly unhinged.

This is how migrants/asylum seekers are handled in Europe too. The entire developed world needs to come together and hold serious talks to establish a humane but sensible way to handle this. Trump went with lies and fear - that works. Harris didn't have a detailed plan to deal with this on a federal level but then no country has found a way to handle it wither - see riots in the UK and Ireland this year. So, it was a big asks and i think Dems are too honest to just say 'I will throw migrants out of every hotel'. Maybe they should have but then the 14 million who didn't vote may have been 16 million as old school Dems bristle.

R365, the 2024 total number of votes is in line with 2016 and earlier. People are now questioning where those millions of extra votes came from in 2020.

From The Atlantic today:

“In the end, a majority of American voters chose Trump because they wanted what he was selling: a nonstop reality show of rage and resentment. Some Democrats, still gripped by the lure of wonkery, continue to scratch their heads over which policy proposals might have unlocked more votes, but that was always a mug’s game. Trump voters never cared about policies, and he rarely gave them any. (Choosing to be eaten by a shark rather than electrocuted might be a personal preference, but it’s not a policy.) His rallies involved long rants about the way he’s been treated, like a giant therapy session or a huge family gathering around a bellowing, impaired grandpa.”

[quote] From The Atlantic today:

It’s rather ludicrous to think that The Atlantic would provide impartial non-partisan analysis, isn’t it?

Nobody ever asks Turd how he created the greatest economy the world has ever known. Not even Kamala during the debate. It's always, "Well, no argument there...". He did nothing. Fucked-up over and over and went golfing. Inherited the Obama economy until he botched Covid, then started his rallying for President.

But it's not 2016 anymore. And the stable genius billionaire 78-yr. old has no interest or enthusiasm for going back to dreary old Warshintin.

Dark skies ahead.

Not only did Trump win the popular vote, his popular vote victory was the greatest since Bush's in 1988.

A lot of older people bought into that he wasn’t going to tax social security they are going to be in for a rude awakening. Same with no tax on tips or overtime.

I don’t think Kamala Harris would’ve lost many votes if she said she was opposed to the trans sports issue. The same with prisons and tighter restrictions on youth gender transition/medicine. JD Vance brought up autogynophilia on the Rogan show and of course you had the usual suspects denying it was a real thing.

[quote] autogynophilia

I had to Google that. Never heard of it before and I bet 99% of Dems who are not chronically online haven't either. I guess it's a big talking point in the wing wing manosphere which once again leads us back to the influence that had on this election.

R371, can you provide a source? NYT shows a 4.65 million lead for Trump in 2024, versus 7 million for Biden in 2020.

We lost because people didn't show up, and the ones who did show up to vote for the Imbecile, got "permission" from the News Media . Everyone knows who Trump is. Forget the Insurrection. Forget the felony convictions. We saw him on a debate stage talking about Haitian immigrants eating cats! We same him simulate fellatio on a microphone. When he was up there swaying to music for 39 minutes, when he said "we have more than enough votes" he KNEW the fix was in. He was counting on our laziness, our stupidity, or fears. And we did it. We gave him what he wanted.

Americans want crime dealt with. No progressive bullshit. They also want low prices. They also want no trans ideology. End of story.

Millions of people listen to Rogans podcast R373, and plenty of people know that some men get off sexually wearing women’s clothes without being terminally online.

Lia Thomas peaked a lot of people.

Let's not forget the Pennsylvania rally where he expounded so eloquently on the size of Arnold Palmer's dick. Future MAGAt historians will refer to this as his Gettysburg Address.

Still shocked . I was so sure.

What is worst for the citizens of DL ?

that the next four years are terrible for the country or that the next four years turn out to be really good for the country?

[quote] plenty of people know that some men get off sexually wearing women’s clothes

Sure, but I didn't know the name for it because it's something I'm aware of but not something I have ever heard discussed in my company or in the media I consume.

[quote] Lia Thomas peaked a lot of people.

Annnd had to Google that too.

Clearly I live in a different universe to the people who have made these things a factor in selecting a President.

[quote] JD Vance brought up autogynophilia on the Rogan show

The shit that will be revealed about this guy some day will be epic.

r294 they had to go with kamala harris since they couldn't transfer all of the money saved to another candidate. Since she is VP, when biden stepped down she could use the funds already raised.

R380 I think you live in a bubble or being deliberately obtuse. The Lia Thomas story was a big story that got write ups in every major newspaper and the cover of sports illustrated not to mention tv interviews with her and people who were for and against her competing.

Those ads about Kamala supporting sex change operations for male prisoners ran during sporting events. They obviously knew they were going to resonate.

r367 Pandemic meant people voted more I guess.

R383 and I gave an early recon report here about those ads and the more pro trump ads I saw during nfl games . They were well done and aimed at the perfect nfl audience. I told folks how those ads worried me because they seemed so effective.

I was of course called an idiot a maga or Russian and given a timeout. .

[quote]they had to go with kamala harris since they couldn't transfer all of the money saved to another candidate.

She raised more money since she announced that Trump had all together. A different candidate could have also raised as much. Democrats went with one of their worst candidates from the 2020 pack.

….. and all the most horrible people are so happy

One of the Trump ads that landed was something along the lines of “Kamala cares about they/them. Trump cares about you”.

Trump cares about *Me/I*

This is a really good take on why Trump won, if you haven't seen it. People don't want policy and the truth. They want a a story and a simple message. As well see, logic doesn't work, it's about gut feeling.

[quote]This is a really good take on why Trump won

If a take on this election isn't about how people voted on the issues, which they clearly did, then it isn't a really good take, is it?

You missed the point r391. It's a simple story - my life is bad. You can fill that in with any issue you want. But in the end people voted on the simple issue of them feeling worse off than they were before. It's when you start getting too deep in the weeds explaining issues is where you loose people. Did you watch ANY of the exit polls, people were not specific about issues. They talked more about how they felt. And a lot of them didn't know how they felt about Kamala even though she spoke ad infinitum about issues.

[quote]In the end, a majority of American voters chose Trump because they wanted what he was selling: a nonstop reality show of rage and resentment.

in other words, lies and hate

I don't see Biden as having cognitive issues, he has some progressive issue that is effecting his response and reflexes which has him moving slower. Be that accelerated aging due to the stress of the office or some other emerging physical impairment, the debate was the first obvious time the public experienced it. But if it were noticeable earlier in the year, they should have began a plan for him to either have Kamala step in then, or have an open primary. Most of the public had only just over 100 days to get familiar with Kamala and the platform and make a more informed decision. There was growing enthusiasm but not was not enough since there was over 10 million less Democratic voters this year than in 2020.

[quote] They talked more about how they felt.

R392, when I see a grocery product that I used to buy regularly at $3.99, and it’s now $4.99, I too would say how I felt about that. Saying how I felt about it doesn’t erase the facts I’m basing the feeling on. I, like the people you are describing, aren’t saying, “I feel angry and I have no idea why.” We know exactly why. It’s absurd to mythologize that people’s feelings on the issues aren’t actually based on the facts they know and/or the real things they have experienced.

Trump & Co are so decadent and criminal

MY opinion is that many companies over the last 12-18 months willfully jacked up their retail prices for groceries and essential goods so that the average person will feel the inflation pinch more and perhaps blame the Biden administration, instead of the companies that are gouging their customers, despite record profits over the last 4 years.

The Democratic Party is now like GLAAD and HRC....If you only care about ONE letter in the LGBT alphabet you are leaving a lot of gay men and lesbians pissed off and not voting for you. I fought for actual survival in the 1980s and 1990s. I know I'm old but this generation of men in dresses who think sitting on a toilet in a womens restroom is some sort of "right" that is superior to the comfort of actual biological women is mind boggling. I have a lot of gay friends who voted for Trump and not just the crazy MAGA ones. I had friends who didn't vote at all. The DNC has a lot of work to do.

[quote] can you provide a source? NYT shows a 4.65 million lead for Trump in 2024, versus 7 million for Biden in 2020.

My comparison wasn't between these two elections. It was that no Republican had won with a greater majority since 1988 than Trump did this year. It's a small sample size, as only one Republican (Dubya in 2004) had even won the popular vote since 1988.

R398 give it a rest Boris

The Biden/Harris administration had the misfortune of taking office post-Covid. The resulting inflation has doomed western governments the world over.

R400 You're out of touch. Just like Kamala was when the votes came in. Just like Sherrod Brown was. Just like the DNC. At least you have plenty of company.

Just read this comment from R390's clip:

"DEMAND RECOUNT / AUDIT / INVESTIGATION into election interference. that human skin tag has been acting oddly for months. Talking about we have a secret, we have all the votes we need. Millions of democrats didn't just sit this election out. He didn't just all of a sudden win the popular vote after not even being able to fill a venue, not to mention the countless other missteps of their campaign. She crushed him in every conceivable way. The numbers don't add up."

I agree that Trump's "we have a secret" comment from one of his last rallies was never explored. What the fuck was that all about? Very weird. Especially with all the voting box fires etc. What was the secret?

[quote]it's so clear how much was missing from Kamala's campaign. Lot's of joy, hope and enthusiasm, and not enough specifics.

Such BS. What were the SPECIFICS that Trump offered that made him the winner? Please list his specific plans not "I will lower prices" speech clips. List please.

[quote]MY opinion is that many companies over the last 12-18 months willfully jacked up their retail prices for groceries and essential goods so that the average person will feel the inflation pinch more and perhaps blame the Biden administration, instead of the companies that are gouging their customers, despite record profits over the last 4 years.

THIS, R397! And apparently the republicans don't want to talk about it, they don't want to understand it, they just want Mr. Magic Wand to "fix it." Not ever connecting the dots that he is one of the ruthless CEO types gouging everyone. Did you see how much his sneakers were selling for? His literally INSANE virtual trading cards? They were asking thousands of dollars for a set of VIRTUAL trading cards. He is one of the corrupt businessmen fleecing the world.

Kamala openly spoke about the price gouging and had plans and policies in the wings ready to go. The MAGAs didn't want to know. They are willfully ignorant. They are firm in their victim stances. Impenetrable.

In honor of the great giant ass kicking trump gave the DL could we can the fucking Boris shit?

It makes some people here look incredibly stupid. We have enough to worry about. Some moron going around shouting Boris at everyone they don’t understand should not need to be one of them.

It’s a friendly suggestion meant to keep people from looking incredibly stupid.

R404 I agree, he had no specifics either. Zero specifics. Concepts of a plan. I get it. I was talking more about those stubborn Undecideds and what they were seeking, that they felt they were not getting from Kamala. You and I as Dems know we can trust Dems to not be ruthless and hateful, and we know they can get shit done. The Undecideds needed to hear more about it. Or maybe they are just hopeless ignoramuses and they deserve whatever defaults to them by their own unwillingness to pick a lane.

BORIS ^

[quote] In honor of the great giant ass kicking trump gave the DL could we can the fucking Boris shit?

Would you prefer we call you Natasha? 😉

R395, again you are missing the point. NO ONE is saying that people's feelings aren't based on facts. But to win an election, at least so it seems, you don't address feelings based on facts with more facts. You address it by telling them something that makes them feel better. They don't want to hear the details of your plan of how you're going to lower their $4.99 product to $3.99. They just want to hear that you'll make it better for them. Kamala was using logic - this is your problem, these are the ways I am going to address it. As most smart, informed people would. Trump had no plan. He just said - you feel bad, I will make you feel better. Too many immigrants, I am going to get them all out. He never ONCE said how he was going to do it. But as you see the HOW doesn't matter to people suffering. They just want to hear you say you will do it. period. He lied through his teeth and never said what he was going to do. But as the woman in the video says - that is his weird talent, knowing exactly what people want to hear when they need to hear it.

R407 if Dems were so good at getting shit done they would have won the fucking election not get their ass kicked. Christ they crushed the Dems.

And your suggestion after this particular election

“The Democratic Party we are nicer, less ruthless, less hateful , more gentle , and you can trust us”

This is the approach you want to use to win back America and the American male vote?

Trump is magat daddy, kissing the booboo better.

And that is a perfect example of how a message could have been different R397, because that is something Kamala said she was going to address. She laid out clearly why it was happening and how she planned to address it. If she instead said these companies are taking advantage of us (screwing us over) and I'm gonna stop them. It's not right. Unfortunately you do have to play to the lowest common denominator and everyone above that baseline will get it.

Another unfortunate thing is that autocratic fascist leaning leaders know how to do this expertly. How to address people where they are on the most basic level. That is how they get people to make a deal with the devil because they will make it all better. They point out a supposed enemy, any enemy and they will vanquish it. Can you imagine if the democrats had a politician who could address people at this level yet wanted to do good instead of evil?

Kamala should have repeatedly said, Trump killed 1 million Americans. 1 million Americans are dead because of him. Remember? We won't let him kill the rest of us. But of course she was held to a much different standard. But keep repeating things like that and it sinks in.

R413 trump would have kicked her ass no matter what she said.

Kamala Harris (TWO years ago) addressing inflation. This is why she lost. What a frigging jibber jabber meaningless answer. This is how the MAGA so easily turned her own word salads against her.

A black woman calling herself Mamala? Of course that was always going to drive racist and sexist MAGAts out to vote against her in droves.

“We Lost The Popular Vote”

America did not like what the Dems were selling. What we here at DL were selling. Folks need to quit making silly excuses, The loss is on the Dems not MAGA or trump or anyone else.

The factors were two-fold:

1 Democrats switching candidates with only 3 1/2 months to go. There was not enough time for voters to get to know her and her platform well enough to build a significant enough voting base and generate enough enthusiasm, so many people opted out.

2 Trump and his media cohorts sending out an unprecedented blizzard of misinformation and propaganda over the course of 2024. Add to that Elon's Twitter platform and the Joe Rogan bro culture all looking to capture the younger male vote.

At the very least, Walz should have gone on Joe Rogan’s show.

[quote]There was not enough time for voters to get to know her...

Oh please. She squandered her time. For the first couple of months she avoided the press, avoided interviews. And there were idiots here on DL praising her for that, saying it was a great strategy. It was a HUGE mistake.

[quote]and the Joe Rogan bro culture all looking to capture the younger male vote.

She could have been a guest on Rogan and all the other bro-casts as well. She avoided them.

Nov 7 2024 maga stops attacking the Dems and the Dems start attacking the Dems, This Dem blood letting should be over by March 2026

In the mean time MAGA is laughing their asses off.

[quote]At the very least, Walz should have gone on Joe Rogan’s show.

So out of touch he felt he had to parade around in a flannel shirt and carry a gun. No one was buying his antics.

[quote] So out of touch he felt he had to parade around in a McDonald's uniform and an orange vest.

FIFY R422. You were talking about Trump, right?

The American people prefer a candidate who would do a three hour discussion with a Joe Rogan over a candidate embraced by SNL. The American people identify more with Rogan than SNL.

R420 The campaign had to come up with a new and excellent strategy for her. Kamala couldn't just show up day one free styling and making interviews and giving press conferences. There had to me a comprehensive platform and it had to be at least somewhat different than Biden's. Personally I thought they ran an excellent campaign overall. The problem was the short period of time and the somewhat standard method of communicating to prospective voters.

The McDonald’s stunt was hugely effective for Trump. That Democrats laughed at it and explicitly stated how awful it is to be seen working at a McDonald’s showed incredibly out of touch they are.

Some Trump Supporters were nice to look at....

[quote]Kamala couldn't just show up day one free styling and making interviews and giving press conferences.

In retrospect, that's EXACTLY what she should have done. Be very yang instead of yin. Let her freak flag fly. Be blunt, give as good as she got, break rules, be alpha. That is the way to fight fire with fire. That is the energy Trump brings and it must be matched. Next time we need a fast talker, someone with a penis, maybe someone with ADHD and the gift of gab. High energy. Some antics. Give the people what the want - spectacles. Someone a bit irreverent. Could Shapiro be that one? We also have to stop being bleeding hearts.

We need to collectively grow a pair.

r400 So help me, every time you goofies start with that Boris shit, I'm just going to post this monologue and keep it moving.

r402 Is correct. You are out of touch. As [bold]hell[/bold].

Kamala couldn’t be bothered to visit the border or get out in front like Trump for hurricane victims.

[quote]trump would have kicked her ass no matter what she said.

White males have a different set of rules. They can do and say anything and get away with it.

I think their theory was that people would vote against Trump because he was more unhinged that ever and spouting nonsense. They thought they would have to provide the opposite so they held them both back from interviews because they didn't want clips of them letting the freak flag fly. In retrospect R428 is what should have happened. It's a shame because if we can have a fair election again it may be 2 blowhards spouting shit and being as much entertainers as politicians. And a great fast talker with ADHD may win but is likely all wrong for the actual job.

No ine would have beat Trump. People just want to go back to pre-Covid days - before the world stopped then turned upside down. It’s as simple as that. It’s nostalgia.

Is “the unbeatable Trump” theory what people are going to gravitate to? That would make it easier to avoid making any changes in the Democratic Party, its policies and tactics, and take any blame off Kamala and Biden.

[quote]FIFY [R422]. You were talking about Trump, right?

You're as out of touch as those who ran the Harris' campaign.

Trump's McDonalds appearance was a like a comedy skit, it was done with humor. And see the post at R426

Walz, on the other hand, actually wanted us to believe he was a deer hunter. LOL.

We really do have to stop with insisting on the pronouns in social media profiles, and allowing trans women to compete with real women, the drag queens reading children bedtime stories, all of that. Of course it makes "us" look insane to Flyoverstan, which is a HUMONGOUS portion of this country. It's very whacky stuff. I don't have a problem with it but as someone who grew up in Missouri I totally fucking get why midwesterners think we are "godless" or whatever their takeaway is. I love people being exactly who they are, being creative weirdos, I love variety and I love gay culture. I also like law and order and a lot of traditional values. The PC shit has peaked and I think a lot of people are just sick of it. Sick of the fear, the walking on eggshells, the virtue signalling. People just want to live their lives and not be forced to call themselves "cis." How hard is this not to understand? The idea that I came out of my mother's "front hole" and then she "chest fed" me is as fucked up to this coastal elite as it is to Suzie Q in Arkansas. Enough with all of that.

R431 that was not an anti Harris comment trump would have kicked Bidens ass as well. And any male dem you can think of. This was trumps year.we at DL who do live in a bubble did not see it but this was trumps year and america was with him.

The only thing the Dems had was , the other guy is trump and abortion.

[quote] Christ they crushed the Dems.

This narrative has got to stop. Trump no more crushed Harris than Biden crushed Trump in '20 (which no one was claiming back then). Trump flipped the same six states that Biden had flipped four years ago. And his margin of victory in the popular vote wasn't as great.

Almost everybody I've talked to for the past 2 years about the economy or politics has been furious about inflation. Many of them even said back then that they couldn't wait to vote out Biden. The cake was baked 2 years ago. It didn't matter that inflation came down in the past year, people had already made up their minds that Biden was the reason for inflation. And it didn't matter who we ran, we were going to lose because of the economy.

Adding in immigration and the trans issue turned it into a perfect storm against Democrats.

The good news is that elections are all about the economy. If the Trump presidency is a dumpster fire with a bad economy, then Democrats will run the board in 2028.

[quote] The idea that I came out of my mother's "front hole" and then she "chest fed" me

Where is that stuff published or said? I haven't seen it and I want to say it's coming from people who are not even Dems but from people who voted for Jill Stein and think AOC is too moderate. But I could be wrong.

[quote] The PC shit has peaked and I think a lot of people are just sick of it. Sick of the fear, the walking on eggshells, the virtue signalling.

There are a lot of specific events that occur that Democrats don’t seem to understand the effect on the electorate. For example, people seeing what appears to be a man beating the shit out of a woman in the boxing ring during the Olympics. Then the issue is compounded by saying that it’s the people objecting to it that are the problem, not the man physically beating the woman. You can’t be taken seriously if you claim to be for women but wholeheartedly allow one to get her face smashed.

For you, R440

When did this shift happen? When did Dems get swallowed into such a prickly identity politics bubble? This type of stuff is red meat for republicans and Fox News

A reminder that, at current counts, Trump is below his 2020 total. He didn’t gain supporters, she just couldn’t get hers to vote.

A LGBTQIA Safe Sex Guide? Yup the authors voted for the Green Party and have Queers for Gaza badges! I figured this existed but was in the fringe until it was spread on Twitter to Musk's delight.

[quote] Almost everybody I've talked to for the past 2 years about the economy or politics has been furious about inflation. Many of them even said back then that they couldn't wait to vote out Biden. The cake was baked 2 years ago. It didn't matter that inflation came down in the past year, people had already made up their minds that Biden was the reason for inflation. And it didn't matter who we ran, we were going to lose because of the economy.

Keep in mind that the administration went all in on the Biden inflation actually being caused by corporate price gouging, but then having put that out there, did nothing about it. Jerry Ford’s WIN buttons were stupid, but at least he tried to show he was interested in doing something. Week after week, month after month, Biden has showed no interest in the pain that Americans continue to suffer with prices higher than when he took office. Instead, as a huge slap to the face, his administration keeps trying to sell that everything is wonderful. Bottom line, he could have at least showed that he cared and was trying to right the situation.

R444, That's the real story. Democrats just didn't turn out to vote. Trump didn't win the election, rather Biden/Harris lost it.

The social media cartoons showing off dresses and genders to little kids are not going to be thriving after Trump starts banning stuff in January.

[quote] A reminder that, at current counts, Trump is below his 2020 total. He didn’t gain supporters, she just couldn’t get hers to vote.

[quote] Trump didn't win the election, rather Biden/Harris lost it.

The '20 election set records for turnout, so I wouldn't make much of these '24 numbers. Trump won. Harris lost. But it's just one election. Buyer's regret will certainly emerge, just as it did with Trump 1.0. Even more so, with no guardrails & the ever-growing parade of freaks & cranks who will surround Trump 2.0.

[quote] Buyer's regret will certainly emerge, just as it did with Trump 1.0.

A more recent example of that phenomenon was with Biden 1.0.

r448, honey, stop it, this was not policy and this was all made-up lies by the GOP. I work in education and this is all lies

R448 Post the source of that please. The account that posted it and the message under it. I assume it's also from a looney LGBTQIA organization and never intended for a mass audience but picked up and shared by MAGA who love using this shit to rile up the base. Let's stop acting like this is handed to kids in schools or printed in mainstream magazines or in your doctor's office.

The thing that we all missed except for CNN and whoever did the study, was that Trumps popularity in the country went up from 2016 to 2020 to higher yet in 2024. ( yes I was told on DL that that was absolutely impossible——by a moron)

It’s clear that we at DL are the ones out of step and clueless about what is going on outside the bubble.

Unless trump truly crashes and burns, and he may or my not, it may be decades before the Dems are again the majority party.

Before the election , before this crushing trump win, the US GOP registration out numbered Dem numbers. It’s not out of the question trump and the gop will decide to crush us so they just don’t have to piss around with us as a serious opposition.

I am not so sure the trump admin is going to be the disaster so many here are sure it will be.

And in other news the US has its first female president Sorry I meant chief of staff.. Christ it’s trump making history.

r436 Your grievances are also what lost her the Arab vote in Dearborn. It's not just Gaza. They'd been pissed with Democrats since the "queer books for kids" ended up in the school libraries of their kids in 2022. I knew it was a wrap then for that whole city. Gaza was just the proverbial cherry bomb on the sundae. But, once again, you had DLers burying their heads in the sand saying people weren't that pissed and these issues were "nothing burgers." Just so disappointing and avoidable. All of this was avoidable.

[quote]Let's stop acting like this is handed to kids in schools

r452 do be a dear and see the link I posted at r454.

2008 Obama 69 million McCain 59 million 2012 - Obama 65 million, Romney 60 million. 2016 Clinton 65 million, Trump 62 million. 2020 Biden 81 million Trump 71 million

Since 2008 Dems voters have been at or close to 65 million. 2020 is the exception thanks to Covid and mail-in voting being made easier and longer voting times and the constant recount demands. Just look at the republican trend. 59/60/62/71/73 versus dems trends of 69/65/65/81/69.

Except for 2020 - in which both parties gained large numbers of voters, somehow the republicans stuck around. If you look at the maps. Obama v McCain, Obama won all the swing states, Florida and Ohio included. Now those two are perma Red.

In the past 16 years, the dem numbers have trended higher overall numbers of voters. Somewhere between Trump's first run and second, he picked up 10 million voters, now 11 million. Harris to her credit got as many votes as Obama got his first run. The people who do vote Democratic are consistent. It is that group of non-voters, who came out in 2020. That was when Trump cried about rampant voter fraud. States past stronger voting requirements. The constant lie that the election was rigged. Trust me Trump will do it again when he gets in, making voting that much harder for people who don't typically vote.

If Greg Abbott & Ron DeSantis bus “illegals” to blue states, why can’t Gavin Newsom & Kathy Hochul bus their excess Democrats to swing states?

I would rather see California bus out all their low class MAGA freaks that live in rural areas to red stats just to stop hearing them bitch and moan about how much they hate California but never move.

[quote]What we here at DL were selling.

What were we selling that particularly irks you R417?

As California votes keep coming in, Trump's popular vote lead over Harris keeps shrinking. I think in the end, it will be very close. Even if he wins the popular vote, it will be by a very small margin. I think it's important, when we look at that sea of red on the electoral college map, to know that many of those states colored red were by very small margins (51-49% for example). Particularly the swing states. Also, if Trump wins the popular vote by only a tiny amount, relative to the total, that diminishes his claims of a mandate, and could/would/should embolden us to resist some of his more outlandish policies. Granted, if he has control over both houses of Congress, he will be unimpeded politically, but a lot of members of the house are in contested districts, which means that the winners of them can't be too extreme or risk losing their seats in the next election cycle.

R456, R460 So close to 12 million Dems who voted for Biden in 2020 just up and disappeared?? Despite the record number of young voters who registered for Kamala? despite the loss of Roe? Despite "they're eating the dogs"? Despite evidence of sold secrets? Despite the possibility of Russia taking Ukraine?

I do not fucking buy it!

Check out this link. Alfie Oakes is a right wing nutbag Trumper.

From the article "The DCIS investigates cases of fraud, bribery, and corruption, INCLUDING CYBER CRIMES AND COMPUTER INTRUSIONS."

Oakes is also closely associated with Mike Flynn who lives in nearby Sarasota. Anybody know Flynn's whereabouts on election night?

There’s always someone - smarter than everyone else - who has a conspiracy to neatly explain it all away.

So that dude in R461 is a big time Trumpeter who got caught using undocumented workers resulting 105 undocumented workers being arrested for workers’ compensation fraud?

And there you go, just wait until these guys who almost all employ "illegal aliens" lose them all to the depredation that's supposed to start on day 1 of the Trump admin. Will Barron Trump now be able to get a part-time job to pay for college picking fruit in the hot sun?

Barron is too busy torturing rabbits and puppies, then burying them in the back yard. He's training for his future career: serial killer.

The immigration issue is likely to reintroduce a cleavage in the Republican coalition. Our immigration system was built by business-friendly Republicans. They wanted cheap labor. Democrats fought it for a while on union concerns.

Maybe not today, but as soon as possible, we need to get very tactical and strategic about fraying the MAGA coalition. Pit the religious against the gays. Pit the Latinos against Stephen Miller and Nick Fuentes. Pit the patriots against Donald Trump’s contempt for this country.

Then, offer a better alternative.

[quote]The immigration issue is likely to reintroduce a cleavage in the Republican coalition. Our immigration system was built by business-friendly Republicans. They wanted cheap labor. Democrats fought it for a while on union concerns.

That is why against popular thinking, I suggest Dems just let the deportations happen without putting up a fight. Let them lose 10 million low wage works. Who's going to do those jobs after that? Watch the price of produce and other things skyrocket. They need to feel the pain, before they will change.

R459

Losing.

A friend I was debating with was so deep into Trumpism she had the nerve to say all the people picking produce or doing those kind of jobs all had visas granted when Regan was in office. So clueless when I pointed out that was a one time thing and all those people back then are probably in their 70s or 80s or dead. When I showed a stat to prove she was wrong, first she said it was fake news, then when I pointed out it was an office Gov statistic going back by decade, she just changed the topic to something else. Still never acknowledging how business will suffer if they deport everyone like they say they are going to do.

R466, I agree to some extent. The first wave will likely be to deport criminals, so that Democrats will take the bait and protest. We’ll look like we are defending drug cartels. Then, they will move on to phase 2 and can get away with demonizing the regular people who they subsequently deport.

Let Latinos who voted for Trump take the lead. Jill Stein is available to help them.

What Dems do you think are going to protest the govt finding deporting or locking up M-13 or other criminals ?

Watch how this proceeds. If that’s their first action, they will make it very public. There will either be protests or not. If yes. We took the bait. If not, it will be difficult to mobilize when they deport families.

R471 sadly no one will give a fuck what we think or what we do. Protest don’t protest who will fucking care?. America has moved on.

And we the Dems are on our way to being a smaller minority party for years to come.

We bet on the wrong horses.

ON Jan 6 we could stpo them from certifying the election

R473

“We” :-)

I live near DC willI I see you in Jan or is “we” meaning someone else?

The tip off that the Dems and liberals were in deep shit maybe should have dawned on us around BudLight or that Target shit over Pride.

These people have major clout . They could destroy the most popular beer in America at the time within days. They put corporations in fear of their numbers and strength.

And now they own the SC, the WH, the Senate, and maybe the House. And based on the vote—-they also have a very large chunk of the American public.

[quote]What Dems do you think are going to protest the govt finding deporting or locking up M-13 or other criminals ?

The ACLU will take the bait. While not Democrats, they are prepping for the raids. They have already geared up for whatever they got which is only about 500 lawyers compared to the10's of thousand the DOJ will have.

I think it's a good point above, they will start with the criminals which Dems should not take that bait. Wait until it's some grandmother or child that does not even speak Spanish as they deport them to a country they don't know.

Yes we can always hope they give up on the criminals quickly and start going after granny.

Well, there really aren't that many criminals like MAGA would want you to believe. I live in CA and trust me the vast majority of "illegal" immigrants are very hard working people. Not just picking fruit in the fields, they work all the low wage hard labor jobs or dangerous jobs most people don't want. Besides the stereotype of maids and gardeners, I know painters, plumbers, maintenance men, construction, day labor, nannies, medical assistants, personal care, food vendors, some even with their own business with 2 or 3 employees. I think most of the criminals could be swept up in the first wave.

60 Minutes did a story on the cost and complications of deporting. It's well worth watching. It isn't going to be easy or cheap!

R479, the president-elect has already said costs will not be any barrier.

I helped on a center that temporarily housed migrants. Even doing good work, it was fraught with issues - legal , practical, protests. distortions in right and left wing media. It was also very expensive. This will be an albatross.

Mass deportations will be like the Wall. A big PR event at first with criminals being deported. Once it gets to hard working people picking fruit, it will be over, It’ll turn into another loser issue like abortion.The threat of mass depletions will push a bill through Congress similar to Biden’s failed bill. Let’s see if I’m right.

R493, I don’t dismiss that take. However, this is a viciously potent issue for Trump and Stephen Miller, who don’t have to worry about public opinion or re-election. It plays to their sadism far more than a boring wall.

Mass deportions…Business will also put pressure on Trump to just do a token effort.

Isn’t this anti-immigration crusade mostly informed by the belief Republicans have held that Latino immigrants will eventually be in the pocket of Democrats? If this is no longer the accepted wisdom, might not Trump instead unfurl a welcome immigrants banner at the Southern border?

[quote]60 Minutes did a story on the cost and complications of deporting.

Mexico will pay for it after he finishes that wall.

Any thoughts on what happened to the Trump vote that he, too, lost from 2020, R461?

R485, No what he will do is talk out of both sides of his mouth. he will put on a show of depredations, maybe some criminals that really do need to go, but with the cameras off, visas to all the business than need low wage labor.

I'm sure having your candidate lie about Biden's state, labeling everyone who pointed out that he was unfit a fascist and a traitor, gaslighting everyone and having your candidate make visibly fake phone calls has nothing to so with it. People prefer an asshole they know to someone they feel is constantly dishonest and preachy and thinks the voters are idiots. We don't know what a woman is. We don't know a frail old man when we see one. We don't know what a phone app looks like. Who points it out is a fascist too. It's a DEM establishment thing, and it is not Kamala's fault. She just did what the campaign management told her to. Hilary 2.0. it's surely not Bernie who fucked the Dems over - they did this to themselves. How they now all hate on the Latinos (strange, nothing about "Latinx" anymore) and want to pin it on them shows their true colors. No solidarity, no understanding, just pidgeon-holing and full-on racism.

The most radical seem to gravitate to academia, & Democrats always seem to be tarred with the brush of their extreme beliefs. A successful Democratic presidential nominee has to have a Sister Souljah moment with them.

[quote]People prefer an asshole they know to someone they feel is constantly dishonest and preachy and thinks the voters are idiots.

Well maybe, except the asshole they know was also constantly dishonest, and thought his voters were idiots. He even said so to their face.

Imaging thinking you have to re-evaluate who you are and what you did wrong because you lost the popular vote...........................................................in Germany 1939. WW2.

Well apparently if we try to overthrow the government on Jan 6, the public will just see as loveable rogues and not mentally ill mentally incompetent people who shouldn't be put in charge of 2,000 live nuclear warheads.

About that, R493:

R465

Rick Perry supported a very draconian anti-immigration bill years ago when he was Governor of my shitty state but his good friend and huge donor Mr. Perry (Bill? Jim?) of Perry Homes talked him out of it. The Texas economy will collapse without migrant workers.

R492 how history is written depends on who wins. Hitlers big problem with history is that he lost. If he had won and wrote the history his position in history would look different.

As would Churchill and Roosevelts.

How many Evangelicals saw the ad where Billy Graham told people to beware of Trump. We all saw it, but did any MAGAs? I'm thinking it was not widely circulated.

Dropping this in here, for no particular reason:

I think everyone should be able to agree with Anne Applebaum that her views have no significance.

[quote] How many Evangelicals saw the ad where Billy Graham told people to beware of Trump. We all saw it, but did any MAGAs? I'm thinking it was not widely circulated.

Franklin Graham supports Trump and he’s alive, so his view is going to carry more weight.

[quote] so that Democrats will take the bait and protest.

Not this time. I don't see any appetite for protest anywhere. I did a quick round of the various groups that resisted Trump and the attitude is either let them find out or total disengagement. All progressive Youtubers are bleeding subscribers. The only 'fight' I see is is a desire for more left leaning media that might appeal to men. Blacks and Jews knew exactly what we was. He lost Jewish support this time. I think asking them to march or donate for deported Latinos would be like asking them to kick their mothers. They did their part. The country heard the abuse aimed at them, saw the rise in abuse aimed at them on X and wanted more. They are done. College educated white people are going to stay in their blue bubbles too.

Something untoward did happen. I was watching how Kamala's campaign deployed their surrogates, and they had President Clinton going to small towns and cities and rural areas! He was in Benton Harbor Michigan, and I'm sitting here wondering why? But apparently Trump went to smaller areas too. In the end, he was shadowing Kamala. We kept hearing that Trump had no ground game and that Elon was pissing away a small fortune recruiting door knockers, but their ground game was a mess. Apparently we were wrong. Elon and his guys drilled down and went after every fucking vote they could find. The evidence of their effectiveness is in how they have been flipping House districts. This was a fucking dog fight. It is easy to point out things we think went wrong, but for Trump he addressed weaknesses in his campaign operation to drag out the votes. Kamala was doing the same thing, but when you have Latino men who refuse to vote for a woman, and 52% of White women voters are supporting an ass wipe like Trump it's pointless. Harris had a damned good campaign. We fucked up. Yes. Even her door knockers said that when they talked to voters a lot of voters seemed disengaged and didn't seem to connect how their daily lives were affected by the remote politics of Washington D. C. Now that is a critical disconnect. Anecdotal yes, but those door knockers talked to thousands of voters on behalf of Harris and those impressions are valid. She had good ads addressing voters' concerns, and promoting her plans and policies. But the biases against her were too powerful to overcome.

[quote] I don't see any appetite for protest anywhere.

It doesn't help that Trump is pledging to use the military to quell protests.

[quote] We kept hearing that Trump had no ground game and that Elon was pissing away a small fortune recruiting door knockers, but their ground game was a mess. Apparently we were wrong.

I didn’t hear that. Maybe part of the problem is where you are hearing things from. If you only hear things from sources that are telling you what you want to hear, then you are not getting an accurate picture.

I hear it on TV news shows who had panel discussions and people on Twitter. Credible reporters covering the campaigns. It wasn't true. There were even reports of Musk stuffing people in U Hauls to drop them off to knock on doors and left them stranded.

R503 when you have the support of the majority of the people a ground game maybe less important.

The Dems had the ground game the gop did not at the same level and that made not a wit of difference.

Trump had the majority of the voters behind him. He was just much more popular than Harris.

I heard that R504. It was even breaking into MAGA media which is why Trump said there was cheating in Philly. They also believed that their ground game was going to lose them PA so they were setting up the steal.

Everyone heard of the great dem ground game and the piss poor unorganized one trump had,

How could anyone have missed that?

This was a giant ass kicking

[quote] We kept hearing that Trump had no ground game and that Elon was pissing away a small fortune recruiting door knockers, but their ground game was a mess. Apparently we were wrong.

Post-election, Tim Miller said that the importance of ground games is wildly overstated in presidential campaigns.

the drop in voting numbers in all of the northern swing states, PA, MI, and WI is very disturbing

R510 I wonder if Dems there thought she was going to win and stayed home because she didn't pass every purity test for them. She lost by less in those 3 states so her ground game and appearances and advertising did have some impact. But maybe gave the sense that had all the momentum and they could stay home because they didn't agree on one issue or they didn't think she was relatable. All while people were turning out for a rapist who tried to overthrow the government.

I guess we'll see Whitmer and Shapiro and Pelosi making the podcast rounds soon with their slant on what went wrong.

R511 the polls were extremely tight. Extremely. Of. Course as pointed out here so often the polls were wrong. Just not the way we thought they were wrong.

We lost because the majority of voters did not like what they were seeing from the Dems and Harris. We can make as many excuses as we want but much of country saw it differently from us.

And let’s face it liberal elites or those thought to be liberal elites are really hated by the majority of voters,.

[quote] I wonder if Dems there thought she was going to win and stayed home because she didn't pass every purity test for them.

That argument holds water for '16, when almost everybody, including Trump, thought Hillary was a sure winner. Bu not so much this year, after both the '16 experience & the closeness of the polls.

But if rich donors are happy with the economy, surely all people must be. Surely.

R514 in every society in every time there are people who fall behind and fail. I think Darwin planned it that way.

And usually those who fall behind are those who have little in the way of skills, no education worth a darn, no great work history, nothing really to offer anyone, or just physically can’t keep up, or pass an employment piss test.

There has never been a time it has not been like this for the majority of people ( and animals).

It’s funny how Democrats derided things that actually were very good for Trump. Remember the memes of Trump dancing as Democrats mocked him for doing that? There are so many videos on social media now of young people, especially young men, doing the same Trump dance move with the YMCA song, celebrating his win. They aren’t treating it as ridiculous. They regard it as cool.

This group predicted every state correctly back in October. They did it by basically looking at Biden's job approval/economy approval, but at the state level. No president has ever been reelected with job approvals as low as Biden's, which were the result of high inflation. That's the only autopsy you need to know.

No Democrat was going to win this election. The race was decided long ago when inflation surged. People were angry and weren't going to change their minds even with inflation coming down.

R516

Winners dance the losers come to DL and complain about the dancing. :-)

Harris's superior GOTV operation actually worked nicely, but the red wave was just too much to overcome. Her ground game was able to cut the margins in half. Democrats would have lost all senate seats in battleground states without it. We ended up losing only one--Bob Casey.

"This is important. In places where persuasion and other efforts were being made, Kamala did 3 points better than in places where it wasn’t happening. If the fundamentals and dissatisfaction w Biden hadn’t been so overwhelming, that three points could have been decisive."

Every government party facing election in a developing country this year lost vote share, the first time this has ever happened. The inevitable economic turmoil and high inflation coming out of a global pandemic has voters upset. I knew when I saw the election results in Europe that it was going to happen in the US, too. Harris did better than most of the rest of the world, but every government up for election lost vote share.

This is true, R520. All of Europe has been making a hard right turn for a few years now. Although I personally know many Europeans who were hoping and praying on our behalf, and on their own behalf, that we would pull through with a Dem win, it now feels inevitable that we too would succumb to the conservative wave that is washing over the western world.

What I don't understand is how voters are unable to 1. Connect the dots that the pandemic was HORRIBLE under Trump, that he lied to our faces on TV every day, that he observably had ZERO clue what he was doing, and that hundreds of thousands of our friends, neighbors and relatives were dying, often alone in a hospital room or a nursing home, separated from loved ones, while Trump constantly minimized everything, and 2. How much better and more tolerable the pandemic got under Biden, how he pulled us out of it with deftness, how we brought inflation under control and were able to get the whole damn thing under control without the lies, the performative insanity, the drama, the chaos, and finally 3. How it's not just the US that has experienced price increases and inflation since the pandemic. It's the whole world.

THERE WAS A HISTORIC, UNUSUAL, ONCE-IN-A-LIFETIME GLOBAL PANDEMIC.

How did some many people forget? How do they not understand that the Covid thing was utterly unprecedented, that there would be fallout and that it takes time to right the ship after a global catastrophe? How, also, did they not realize that Obama had a pandemic plan in place, which he left for Trump, which Trump promptly threw in the trash?

How does it make sense to "punish" a government for the fallout of a global illness catastrophe? Especially when it was under TRUMP that the majority of people died? It's like a wizard came and mindwiped everyone's memory and no one is remembering what Trump's Covid era was actually like. It was scary, a nightmare, a farce, a tragedy, a comedy, a Twilight Zone episode. Biden was the one who brought sanity and hope back. Who got us out of the house, back to work, back to socializing, back to some semblance of normalcy.

Btw, you can't have it both ways, Trump/Repugs. Trump can't both brag about getting the vaccines to the population in record time and ALSO hire anti-vaxxer RFK Jr to be in charge of Heath. Do you love Trump because his administration facilitated the rush on Covid vaccines, or do you love him because he is skeptical of vaccines and supportive of the anti-vaxx community? WHICH IS IT?!

I see it said that Trump may appoint Richard Grenell as Secretary of State. Would he be the first gay SoS?

I’ve also seen Mario Rubio’s name bandied about for Foggy Bottom.

Judge strikes down Biden administration program shielding immigrant spouses from deportation

500,000 people were protected by this. So there's an easy target if Stephen Miller wants to pull parents out of the home on Jan 21 and perp walk them.

Psaki has a great take. She points out how foolish it was to uplift and amplify Never Trumpers, people who left the Republican Party, instead of going after people who were leaving the Democratic Party. Giving someone like Liz Cheney a platform was just for entertainment, it didn’t broaden the coalition. Even on DL, you had people touting that Haley voters would swell the Democratic vote. Forget Haley and people who would vote for her - go after working class voters.

I feel very naive and stupid now, R525, because I foolishly and optimistically believed that the swells of republicans voting for Kamala, the whole "country over party" thing, was a sure sign that we were reaching people. That we were going to usher in a new era of bringing people over to the party with more class and intelligence, more concrete proposals and plans. I really thought it meant something. But it didn't. It's wild.

R466 reminds me of the joke - What do you get when you cross a Mexican with an Octopus?

I don't know, but it sure can pick lettuce.

[quote] Amazing that every single person in Democratic politics knows what went wrong in this election, but none of them knew how to keep it from happening a few days ago.

People may have known, just like they knew Biden had cognitive issues, but they haven’t said anything until a window of opportunity opened up to allow them to speak relatively freely without getting attacked or cancelled.

R527 Our mistake was that we hired all of those ex Trump people. They got jobs at CNN, MSNBC, The View. We bought their books. We listened to their podcasts. We subscribed to their substacks. They all jumped on the money train. This gave the impression that they were a large group but they were not. Already some are slithering back to Republicans. The real ones are sticking on our side because they are us now.

I think the election could have been tampered with. What was that "secret" Trump was talking about at one of his last rallies? That was such an overt hint that they had it in the bag, corruptly. Who talks like that?

Nothing adds up. Kamala's rallies were packed and Trumps were half-empty.

Who are the ex-Trumpers slithering back to Republicans, R530?

R531

The big secret. Maybe not the exact words but

“We have this one in the bag the Dems are running A shit campaign MAGA”

Democrats are lucky they had power this long after all the rioting, store robberies, defund the police, taking a knee for a man who put a gun to a pregnant woman, and statues torn down. Telling people to stay inside over Covid but to mask up when going to protests was pretty much the icing on the cake. Not mention people like Scott Wiener calling on jailing people not wearing masks over Covid but not shutting down the kink parade and telling people with suspected monkeypox to just put a bandaid over it.

Harris campaigning with Cheney and promising a Republican in her cabinet was a mistake of historic proportions. It gained her maybe two votes in Wyoming and depressed her base's turnout everywhere else. Here's hoping we never hear from any of the Cheneys ever again.

In electoral politics, most people don't vote for compromise and ideological capitulation. They see it as weak. Most voters want to feel like they are voting for a fighter and a winner. That's America.

The George Floyd thing was not a good look. All that misplaced outrage for a weirdo druggie who was being held in an authorized kneehold while on PCP. This is the sort of bleeding heart stuff that the party needs to evolve away from. This is the stuff that Gen Z gets wrong. Demonizing the police, when most of them are good people who risk their lives daily to keep us all safe. It's just ridiculous. As a democrat I have grown weary of it and when I hear young people in my family talking about how the local police are evil, I want to smack the shit out of them. It's such an entitled take. They live in an incredibly safe town in a wonderful state, they are white and affluent. You don't get to shit on the men in blue. Not in my house.

[quote] Our mistake was that we hired all of those ex Trump people.

I read that the neocons and country club Republicans have left the party and have colonized the Democratic Party, on the way to taking it over, to the Democrats’ detriment.

George Floyd preceded the 2020 election. The protests absolutely destroyed the Democrats in 2024, but not just months after they happened. Right.

Sounds like someone had an axe to grind.

democrats have to learn how to refute two things:

- communism/ Marxist allegations.

- republicans are better for the economy.

Yeah, no one on either side was mentioning "defund the police" much at all this election cycle. It's ancient history and had zero effect either way.

{quote] Nothing adds up. Kamala's rallies were packed and Trumps were half-empty.

I stopped looking to crowd sizes as a predictor of electoral success in 1972 when George McGovern spoke to large, rapturous crowds right up until Election Day ... before losing 49 states to Richard Nixon in a REAL landslide.

R542 The "Defund the Police" stuff may not have been *directly* influential in this 2024 election, but it sure as SHIT has contributed to the growing sense in America of progressive Democrats being unhinged, ungrounded, "lefty loony liberal" snowflakes. Black Lives Matter, Defund the (fill in the blank), George Floyd, transwomen in sports, Rachel Levine as Health secretary, chest-feeding, pink pussy hats, Dylan Mulvaney's Bud Light commercials, mainstreaming drag queens....

All of it has been coalescing and building up to this moment.

I wasn't crazy about Kamala but I cant help but feel bad for her. the truth is there is no way an incumbent vice president of Bidens could have won. Maybe if she had more time but certainly not in three months.

[quote]All progressive Youtubers are bleeding subscribers.

R544 and that is just a partial list. We have to understand that the majority of voters have rejected our values and pretty much hate us.. Their win was not an accident.

Rachel Levine could be the most brilliant person who ever lived but looking at him I just can't.

[quote]Especially when it was under TRUMP that the majority of people died?

The majority of Covid deaths were under Biden.

R546 BlueAnon.

For R529

Pod Save America Host Says Biden’s Internal Polling Showed Trump Winning 400 Electoral Votes

R524 thank you.

[quote]Post-election, Tim Miller said that the importance of ground games is wildly overstated in presidential campaigns.

THIS! Look the "ground game" of old is the rhino of campaigning now. Dems need to stop thinking the more boots on the ground they have is going to win them election. It's irrelevant now obviously. The game Trump won was tapping into Bro Networks Joe Rogan with 60 million followers vs MSNBC with 2 mill? Legacy media folks. Bros don't watch that. Bro's dont answer the door either.

If you want to win next time around stop with the antiquated door knocking. Spend the time, money on the 30 or so biggest influencers on pod casts, TikTok, IG and others. It may seem low brow but that's how they won.

R487 (I just got on line).

Yes. I believe the 2020 election was rigged in Trump's favor, but thanks to Covid and mail-in voting, it was unsuccessful. Remember how Trump and the GOP were freaking out about Mail-in balloting? Remember how Crooked Louis De Joy was made postmaster general and had sorting machines destroyed?

Hmm, we didn't hear anything about that this year, did we? In fact, the GOP encouraged early voting this year. Why? (I don't know!)

But had the 2020 election results relied heavily on machines the way the 2016 election did, I suspect we would have seen a very different outcome.

And had the 2020 election been thoroughly investigated in states other than Arizona (like Florida? Texas?), I suspect Biden's win would have been by considerably more than 7 million votes.

I believe the reason the GOP targeted Arizona is because they expected the results to be clean. Most of the voting machines audited were produced and serviced by Dominion, which proved it's claim that Fox was lying and thus the 800 million dollar settlement....

A paltry sum of money compared to what they gain and keep by distracting from the other major voting company, ES&S, owned by Millionaire Republican Donors. Those machines are mostly operated in Florida, Texas, Michigan...(you see where I'm going).

Feel free to ask any other questions if you believe my suspicions are plausible.

You’re nuts! ^

After a campaign ends and there's a winner and a loser it's easy to do the arm chair quarter back thing about shoulda, woulda, coulda. I thought the whole country over party, Republicans for Harris was a good thing. Look. Trump's operation and Harris operation both had their strategy and it was based on hard numbers and reasonable assumptions. Trump's strategy proved more effective. But not by much.

R556 here. The truth is that we, the voters didn't show up. Overall, turnout was lower, and here in Georgia where I am, I am told there are 7.2 Million registered voters. About 5 million turned out. Now that was impressive, but the majority of them were Trump supporters.

[quote] You’re nuts! ^

Would DL be DL without demonstrably insane people like r554?

That was quick.

[quote]NYC ending debit card program for migrants

^ Him said...

[quote] After a campaign ends and there's a winner and a loser it's easy to do the arm chair quarter back thing about shoulda, woulda, coulda.

It’s more of a national conversation providing input into the analysis that the DNC, Democratic leaders and rank-and-file Democrats will need to do to understand what the Democrats did wrong. It’s an uphill effort, since the natural partisan tendency is to adamantly resist any call for change and to refuse to take any blame.

This is an interesting thread of commentary and election interference theories.

Some of the posts are ridiculous, but many are worth considering...

[quote] This is an interesting thread of commentary and election interference theories.

Yeah, no.

95% of the time, if the economy is good, the party in power wins. If it's bad, the challenger wins. That's all you need to know. Everything else is noise.

All the BS going around about Bro Culture, young voters, cultural shifts, etc, are started by partisans who want to advance their beliefs, and a bad economy allows them an opening to do just that. Nobody will be talking about these things in 4 years. Remember soccer moms?

TEEz never seemed to realize Trump is going to change their entire lives if he won this election.. Their $$ comes from the number of followers they have and the videos they post. Many of those followers are children. [bold] Trump is going to ban a lot of their social media content under the guise (whether true or not) that it "targets" children. [/bold] You won't be seeing hormone injection videos after January. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so. Also the Supreme Court is going to 100% ban gender changing surgery for minors. (though that ruling won't come till summer).

R564 EXCEPT....the economy was good. People were just convinced it was bad. If they deport 11 million illegals they remove billions from the economy. 11 million people are paying taxes, and they can never get back.

I don't know r565, my long time T friend voted MAGA and to her, standing by her man who is MAGA in their 55 and over Boomer retirement village hanging out with a group of MAGA woman she does not see this as an attack on her rights. Having a "straight man" in her life far surpasses any thoughts about other people's rights, including other Trans.

R544 ftw. I would add that our disdain for straight male culture aka toxic masculinity added to the backlash.

I still find it odd that 20 million Democrats got up on November 5th, determined that they were nigger haters and women haters, and went back to bed.

^^^^ oh my^^^^^

I thinks it's more a woman hater thing than a race thing. Obama was black, he still got elected. Lets not forget WHY the majority of Hispanic men and quite a few woman went for Trump. They all said openly they just cant see a woman as president. Not even hiding it. And ironically, Mexico just elected their first woman as president.

r418 3.5 months is 3 times as long as most countries election.

I still find it hard to believe that corporate America will just sit idly by and let Trump and Elmo crash the economy with mass deportations and tariffs. I think some of them will try to step in and bend his ear. Whether they'll succeed at that is the million dollar question since he's stupid and nuts.

[quote] 95% of the time, if the economy is good, the party in power wins. If it's bad, the challenger wins. That's all you need to know. Everything else is noise.

Voters are too stupid to understand that the effects of economic change can take years to be felt. The economy was strong during the first half of Trump's presidency because he inherited a strong economy from Obama. Trump had little to do with it, but he took all the credit, voters believed him, and the media didn't challenge it. Then, everything went to hell with COVID. It was inevitable that there would be massive inflation. Biden inherited an economic mess, saved us from a recession, and has brought down inflation and unemployment. But he gets blamed for a bad economy and the media doesn't challenge it. We're stuck in a pattern: The Republicans wreck the economy and the Democrats fix it but get all the blame. How do we break out of that cycle?

[quote]I still find it hard to believe that corporate America will just sit idly by and let Trump and Elmo crash the economy with mass deportations and tariffs

They are all two steps ahead of you. Trump's tariffs wont be equal across the board, surprise! What this does is make him a King Maker. He will pick and choose who gets and exemption based on who kissed the ring long enough and good enough to get his blessing. That's why they are all tripping over him to congratulate him.

And you’re too dense to understand that it is a rational expectation that people who were quickly impacted by inflation wanted a quick fix. That’s standard consumer, and voter, behavior.

I love the big story about how Steve Madden is moving production from China. Yeah they spread it out between Korea, Brazil and other countries. This will not bring manufacturing back to the US. People are too stupid to understand why it is gone. After WW2 the US was really the only country able to produce goods. The rest of the world was in shambles. Slowly they rebuilt and manufacturing moved from US centric to global centric. Cheaper labor, cheaper parts. The US was no longer the king of manufacturing not because any loss of competition, but because the rest of the world recovered from the last great war. Trumps logic is if they make it just as expensive to get a good from china as if it was made in the US, they will move to the US. Except...the US is not the ONLY consumer of goods and we EXPORT as much as we import. He found that out last go round when Mexico and China stopped buying US produce. The Trump administration was funding farmers to make up for the revenue loss to the tune of 16 billion a year.

Actually what the Gen Z represents is charter schools. When GWB forced the change in American twenty years ago, it was obvious he was trying to move tax money from public accountability to private hands, which means education was harmed by corrupttion. But what also happened is that charter schools were created to teach conservative propaganda unrestrained by facts. And GenZ is the first generation raised in that environment where they aren't taught about slavery or unions or any real American history, just fake patriotic pap.

[quote] Voters are too stupid to understand that the effects of economic change can take years to be felt.

How voters feel about the economy can change quickly. In 1982, voters were angry about the economy. Less than two years later, it was “morning again in America”.

Exactly

We’ve been here before…

—a Carter-Mondale Democrat

r581 Not exactly. Reagan era did not try to rewrite democracy and presidential powers. What scares me the most is a one-term Senator with zero political experience and quite frankly, an evil presence, is a heart beat away from the presidency.

^ Remember when the reich wing blew a gasket over a one term Senator from Illinois became President? I'm sure they'll say similar when Miss Jaydine becomes the President when Trump dies or becomes incapacitated.

And if you believe that, I have some swamp land for sale in Florida.

[quote] Remember when the reich wing blew a gasket over a one term Senator from Illinois became President?

I don’t think anyone would disagree that between the two of them, McCain had significantly more experience, if that was something that mattered to anyone at the time.

Thiel, Musk, Vance and Trump is not a foursome that can last. All 4 have giant egos, no core values, daddy issues and a lust for power. This will end very, very badly.

R585, I was talking to a friend today about that very thing. I was speculating that Trump is obviously in decline, and has probably outlived his usefulness to Putin. Putin has Elon. Elon has satellites and he is a real billionaire. He has al ready proven his usefulness. He bankrolled Trump's field operations, and probably lots of other stuff. He and Theil have young Vance in place, as their puppet. He has proven himself morally bankrupt and willing. So Donnie better have a food taster, and avoid open windows or balconies on high floors. I think Trump may last out one year, but I won't give him t wo.

Wishful thinking, they still need Trump as the useful idiot to hide behind. He will be like Weekend at Bernie's. White House Edition. Everyone already desensitized to the orange death foundation makeup.

Yeah, Trump brings the voters out. No other Republican has his secret sauce.

R588 Trump is Trump first. Being a Republican is just a means to end. I doubt the democrat party would ever allow a demagogue like him to ever gain fruition to grow from day one. Hell, the establishment seems to hate sensible populists like Bernie Sanders. But back to Trump. This is what I keep telling people in regards to him slowly breaking away minority men from the Dems. He knows how to speak to their insecurities on social media and exploit that. Then you factor in, he is already a familiar figure many of them grew up with, that NBC touted as some brilliant businessman.

Also the people who believe he’s a great businessman because they heard it on tv are the most stubborn, unreachable people ever. We have everyone from former business partners to the creator of The Apprentice to the ghost writer of The Art of the Deal to former contestants to six bankruptcies and nothing gets through. They still think he’ll end all wars because he’s a savvy negotiator who wrote the art of the deal. You can’t fix stupid.

R590 well the mainstream liberal media presented him that way for decades look at all the grief Rosie O'Donnell got for trying to expose him in 2016.

2006*

R591 Rosie tried to expose him before 2016 and that’s why I fucks with her for life. People talk a lot of shit about lesbians on this site and just in general but I find that smart, successful ones usually be right about shit.

AlienOnMars is Teacake's newest alias. When are you going to OD?

R590 if you can keep pointing out that trump was not great as a businessman that might help,over come the fact that the GOP and Trump are owning the Supreme Court, the House the Senate, the White House, and the majority of American voters.

Those bitches though have not yet taken over the DL .

PT Barnum understood the American people.

Yes he did, except I am tired of 8 years living in the side show tent.

R597 except for New York jets fans no one enjoys losing.

End this

now.

Amen.

Still waiting.

Pushing the envelope.

Okay, then.

Keep going!