Too Soon? Sir Ian McKellen Trashes the Queen and her Progeny

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She really spoke her mind.

"I'm on his side but he's a fucking idiot" is a reasonable choice. As for the Queen it sounds like she was just making pointless small talk and wanted to get the ceremony over quickly.

Feuding Queens.

The correct answer to the Queen's "you've been doing this a long time" was "So have you." That probably would have prevented her next remark, which would then also have begged an obvious reply.

R3 Yes. There have been estimates showing that QEll shook hands with more people than anyone else, ever. It's in the millions.

On the other hand, lol, she had no gift for conversation at all. The only reason she wasn't pilloried for it was because her father was worse.

Cranky old entitled queen.

I'm not talking about Elizabeth II.

I went to his pub the other week. The food wasn't very good.

Amazing people are still interested in this ancient slag. Both of em.

Corrected: "So have you, ma'am." & then a little curtsy.

The loos in McKellen's pub look like they were last renovated in the 1960s, which is probably the last time the pub was cleaned. The female cook was arguing with one of the bar staff in the kitchen, which is a few steps from the women's loo.

The pub is three doors down from where he lives.

The interview was with The Times, not the DM. This is what McKellen said about Harry:

[quote]“I’m most definitely on Harry’s side,” he says, tapping it with a finger.

[quote]What does he mean?

[quote]“Imagine being born into the royal family. I’ve been in public life a bit, but these people are in prison. They can’t do anything normal. Can you imagine having to be nice to everyone you talk to?”

In other words, he's only on Harry's side in terms of why Harry wanted to escape a difficult way of life, not because he's on Harry's side in terms of Harry's attacks on his family.

Moreover, McKellen kind of excuses the Queen for her alleged rudeness to him by acknowledging himself that it can be quite a strain to have to be nice to everyone you talk to, especially when you meet several dozen people a week.

His actual opinion on Harry.

[quote]As for Harry, he’s probably not bright enough or doesn’t have the right friends to really help himself. Mind you, he had the pick of all the pretty women in the world. I hope he’s got the right one.”

Apparently, according to McKellan, Ronald Reagan used to call Meryl Streep for foreign policy advice:

[quote]“But I care. And Tom Hanks cares. He does a lot with veterans. And Meryl Streep cares. She told me she had once just sat down for a Chinese takeaway at home when the White House rang. President Reagan wanted to talk to her about foreign affairs because he felt more comfortable with her than his advisers. She is terribly alert.

Oh you're Irish? How quaint...

People don't meet the Queen to hear what she will say. They are obsessed with what THEY will say. Often people report they were so nervous and unstable they sputtered nonsense. It's such a common response that the Queen must think that a majority of her subjects are deranged.

This book is a must read whether you love, hate, or are ambivalent about QEll. I'm halfway through and dreading coming to the end.

“And I’ve got a film to promote!”

[Quote]I went to his pub the other week. The food wasn't very good.

Shame. Next time ask for my signature Spotted Dick.

The Queen was a deformed human. Her sole interests were dogs and horses. She left her infant children for months at a time, and seeing as they weren't dogs or horses, cared little for them. Any positive or radiant qualities attributed to her were projections of her downtrodden subjects. Even among her family she was a buzzkill. These flaws are always explained as a consequence of her oppressive role, which is probably accurate, but even so, she was dull and boring.

Know her well did you, r18?

No R19 just read lots and lots about her. In all the verbiage there was one single anecdote that proffered a hint of who she might have been if not born into royalty. She was seven years old and during her tedious French instructions she suddenly picked up the inkwell and dumped it over her head. The two adults who witnessed this were so shocked they said nothing, but it was recorded in the nanny's diary. That was the last protest the poor kid ever made.

R20, it's a bit odd that, in your opinion, the only "hint of who she might have been" is what you deem a "protest".

It's strange that people find it hard to comprehend that the royal family are public figures, not our private friends. They have a public role to play and that's how we see them. In their private lives, I'm sure they are just like everyone else - which most of the time for most of us is just getting on with things rather than "protesting". What sort of thing do you want? Her political opinions? Incidents of where she swore? I think what we see was pretty much who she was - a nice, polite upper-class lady with a strong public service ethos and a deep sense of duty. It is possible that that was indeed her personality and what she believed in.

Ian McKellen does, however, think she was rude. Does that make you think better of her?

[quote] She left her infant children for months at a time

That was very common among the British upper classes of that era. It was just what they did.

Maybe r21, but it does seem to confirm the suspicion that the absolute last place you want to be is a formal event at Buckingham Palace. Even as people spent their lives fighting for the honor of an invitation from the Queen, when the reality sets in that this is probably going to be one of the dullest evenings of your life, it must be a little heartbreaking.

Oh dear R21 I never used the word 'protest'.

[quote] In their private lives, I'm sure they are just like everyone else - which most of the time for most of us is just getting on with things rather than "protesting".

Quite sure you are, carry on.

Team Ian 👍

It's interesting to speculate on how a millennial like William will handle his role. If my nieces and nephews are any indication, a king is something from LOTR. In spite of my efforts to infuse the BRF with historical significance they have no idea who I am talking about.

I wonder if she posted on DL in her spare time.

I knew that old bitch was a troll!

What an egotistical man.

It’s an investiture. Of course her handshake signals that he should leave. Although she may well also find the task boring, it’s her responsibility to make sure everyone gets his or her award without the ceremony taking all day. Was he expecting a lingering discussion of Hamlet while everyone else waited?

On the rudeness scale, her comment about live theatre isn’t off the charts.

I guess he wasn’t too disgusted by the system or its incumbents to forgo being Sir Ian, a style that he wouldn’t receive in any fantasy republic.

Sir Ian McKellen is always complaining about one thing or another, isn't he?

There are a number of anecdotes in the Craig Brown book referenced above which showed her humanity and empathy - they were mostly in private rather than when on show as "The Queen" and which I found quite moving, especially her taking care of Lord Mountbatten's grandson Tim Knatchbull when his twin brother Nicholas as well as Tim's grandfather and grandmother and an Irish lad on the boat were blown up by the IRA in front of him - Tim was on the boat as well as his parents who were both seriously injured.

The Queen put that aside later when shaking the hand of Martin McGuinness - IRA commander - during a subsequent visit to Northern Ireland. An example of when she was required to put personal feelings aside for the greater good.

As far as the handshake thing - she didn't just reserve that for McKellen - it was standard practice during investitures that this was a sign that the person being invested should step back and they would move on to the next in a long line.

Otherwise they could have gone on all day as people did tend to get tongue-tied with her - meeting an icon in the flesh and all that

If McKellen, who I had always admired - had an issue with her he could have always declined the honour, or returned it later in protest. He did neither.

R23, most people who go to events at Buckingham Palace or investitures come away talking about how wonderful it was, how marvellous the Queen/King/Prince/Princess was, how honoured they feel. The only people I can think of who've complained are Ian McKellen and Ngozi Fulani.

I guess, as an American and thus not following the local news reports, you wouldn't be aware of that though. Anyone who spent their lives fighting for the honor [sic] of an invitation from the Queen may be disappointed, however. Honours are given for good works, not for trying to ingratiate oneself with the monarch (political gongs awarded by the prime minister aside).

[quote]he says, tapping it with a finger

Pics please.

All a bit in poor taste of Ian McKellen, but then he always had a vulgar streak.

Telling this tale only makes him look bad for taking it personally and not laughing it off. The queen wasn't hugely into that side of the arts. She probably was just saying what a fair few people think. The theatre doesn't have the same cultural capital it once did.

[quote]The Queen put that aside later when shaking the hand of Martin McGuinness

She probably thought he was the beer guy.

I'll take your word for it that there are some heartwarming examples of her empathy in private, I haven't finished the book. I didn't think allowing her dogs to bite the servants and guests, often quite viciously, showed much empathy.

She wasn't into the arts at all, but then a lot of the aristocracy are not. Diana's idea of high culture was Duran Duran. The Queen probably would rather have stuck pins in her eyes than sit through yet another Shakespeare play about the family history she had drilled into her head as a child.

I don't think any of the aristo ladies courted by Charles, William or Harry over the years have given two tosses about any form of arts, except sometimes paintings. They grow up surrounded by original artworks so they sometimes seem to acquire a taste for those. Catherine, of course, studied art at university, so she probably has a level of genuine interest.

The Queen was always said to have a lively sense of humour in private, which I can imagine since she was all about practicality and common sense. There have always been rumours, which nobody can truly confirm of course, that she did a wicked Thatcher impersonation for the family's eyes only.

He should be happy Lilibet even gave him the award. In my day such men shot themselves.

From the sounds of it, it seems that The Queen's comment to Ian was an example of that very dry British Humour we always hear about. I am surprised, being British himself, that he took it so personally and didn't see it for what it was.

[quote]She probably thought he was the beer guy.

Do you really believe that, r37?

Nah. She knew who he was. While she was shaking his hand her Corgis were biting his leg.

From Ian McKellen's website:

[quote]Companion of Honour

[quote]In Action Faithful and In Honour Clear

[quote]"Sir Ian Murray McKellen: Actor, services to Drama and Equality"

[quote]28 December 2007: Queen Elizabeth II has named Sir Ian McKellen to the Order of the Companions of Honour for his “outstanding achievements as an actor and also for his work in championing the causes of diversity.”

[quote]Sir Ian said, "I am honoured to join an Order which includes such distinguished practitioners in the arts. It is particularly pleasing that 'equality' is included in my citation."

I think his problem is that he hasn't been made a Lord yet and, after his recent tumble off the stage, he's starting to worry that his time is running out.

R42, the Queen didn't take her corgis to Northern Ireland.

QUEEN IN HISTORIC HANDSHAKE WITH SINN FEIN'S MCGUINNESS

This is why the Queen was allegedly rude to McKellen. Every time he visits, for various events, he can't behave himself! He admits it himself - "It brings out the worst in you, Buckingham Palace".

On one occasion he and Judi Dench were dancing around and stumbled across the Queen's and Prince Philip's thrones, so sat on them. This was after some banquet, during which McKellen had been seated next to Princess Margaret.

Six months before the Companion of Honour award, McKellen was at Buckingham Palace to take part in a concert. His dressing room was near the balcony, so he decided to go out onto the balcony to smoke a cigarette (throwing his match on the floor and then his cigarette, at least that's what he gestures). A policeman below called out to him to stop doing that. When McKellen went later to the Companion of Honour investiture, the same policeman spotted him.

Wow. Watch Phillip cut Martin dead in this longer clip.

McGuinness's terrorist organisation killed Philip's uncle, r47. Some even say he personally directed the murder.

Princess Margaret was the only Royal Family member who had any interest in the arts. She loved ballet, theatre and classical music.

Never too soon, the old bitch was dead on her feet twenty years ago

The Prince and Princess of Wales have History of Art degrees. How can you spend all day talking about the Royal Family and still get it so wrong??

R48 I know. My partner has read everything about the IRA. He even dragged me to Belfast to do the mural tour. It was interesting but the more I read about Mr McGuiness and his merry band of brothers the more repulsed I was. Mountbatten might have been a pedo but those kids were innocent, hell the IRA killed innocent people almost exclusively. I know Ulster was horrible too and they're still assholes with their bonfires and provocations.

William's degree is in Geography, you twat.

Mountbatten was a kiddie diddler? Really?

Actors should only speak when they are reading a script someone else has written for them.

R54 It would appear so.

Well Meryl Streep graduated from Vassar and Yale and she was probably a "citizen" with something reasonably intelligent to say. Of course Nancy was a Smith grad and probably not simple. Who knows.

Who the fuck is Nancy?

[quote] Actors should only speak when they are reading a script someone else has written for them.

Actually, nobody is as scripted as constitutional monarchs. Far more than actors, they are told over and over and over again NOT to have opinions and to keep their interests conventional and their conversation well within the safest opinions.

If anything, Ian McKellen is far freer to go off script than Queen Elizabeth ever was.

Mountbatten and his cousin the Duke of Windsor allegedly had an incestuous relationship in their youth.

[quote] William's degree is in Geography, you twat.

🤣

Not surprisingly for a man of royal birth with film-star looks, Mountbatten cultivated a large group of gay friends, including Noël Coward, Terence Rattigan, Ivor Novello and Tom Driberg, who gave him the moniker “Mountbottom”.

[quote]The theatre doesn't have the same cultural capital it once did.

It remains a great art form, and London stakes a firm claim indeed to be the form's cultural capital. If The Queen was trying to be 'dryly witty' she failed, and sounded like a suburban philistine. It's a remark her husband might have made.

McKellen might not have wanted to be a Lord, but could if he'd not talked publicly about The Royals have reached the next stage up from the CH, the Order of Merit, as did Gielgud and Olivier. Having bravely come out as gay, McKellen was Knighted, and used his greater prominence to speak out on gay issues when very few such luminaries were out. I dislike the term 'National Treasure', but Sir Ian fits that bill for me.

Let us not forget, this is merely the foggy account of a notorious theatre priss pot who can barely behave himself in public for more than 5 minutes.

William switched from history of art to geography, r53.

Do you honestly believe it didn't happen r64?

Look, she blurted out a kind of rude comment, maybe trying to be a little funny, the theater prisspot has resented it for many years, and now we can all get on with our lives

The truth is anything that makes the Queen look like less of a mannequin is a good thing for her, so in the end, she kind of wins again.

What the Queen actually said was "You've been doing this a long time, give it a rest. The theatre's dying and you don't look so great yourself."

R9 What those ancient slags have, you can't spell.

Here's a photo of the incident itself, McKellen receiving his Companion of Honour medal from the Queen.

Here's Paul McCartney being made a Companion of Honour by the Queen. They seem to be having a nice chat.

Each individual only gets about 20 seconds to talk to the Queen in. If McKellen was trying to engage her in a longer conversation no wonder she had to try to signal to him in some way that he should move along.

Remember when Ian McKellen tried to excuse Kevin Spacey and Bryan Singer's abuse of younger men on homophobia?

McKellen is well known for his patronage of late teens early 20s male escorts.

Dame Shirley Bassey being made a Companion of Honour just last month. She refuses to say what she talked about with the King, but they seemed delighted to see each other.

[quote]I don't think any of the aristo ladies courted by Charles, William or Harry over the years have given two tosses about any form of arts, except sometimes paintings.

Not entirely true.

Camilla is a great reader, and has since Covid she has run a national reading club. The books she chooses are not avant-garde, to be sure, but they're also mostly respectable. I'm an English lit. professor at a US college and I have taught many of the books on her lists, including Frankenstein, A Tale of Two Cities, Dracula, Rebecca, Pride and Prejudice, and Atonement.

And if we're counting the more extended royal family - Sarah Chatto - daughter of Princess Margaret - is a successful painter married to another successful painter - Daniel Chatto. One of their sons is a sculptor of some note.

Presumably this is influenced by Princess Margaret's genes - she wasn't a painter but of the two sisters she had the most interest in the arts.

As well as Sarah’s brother David - the current Earl of Snowdon - furniture designer and chairman of Christie’s.

Oh my ... "Does anyone actually still go to the theatre?" in the context is obviously a joke. Not a very funny one but it is one. And the handshake was the sign to go away. Awww, ... Someone else would be over the moon that the queen shook his hand. She doesn't have to. A handshake is a symbol of a meeting between equals.

It sounds similar to this anecdote...

She asks the novelist Sybille Bedford: “How long have you been writing?” and when the reply comes back: “All my life,” the queen says: “Oh dear! Oh well.” Brown adds: “With those four words, she had in fact hit the nail on the head. Throughout her life Bedford had found the act of writing close to unbearable.”

Basically it seems the queen didn't think artistic fields were a great use of one's time.

R51, see R38.

Charles is a big fan of classical music.

R76 when a monarch shakes your hand it isn’t to signal you’re an equal.

Mountbatten was nicknamed Mountbottom in the Royal Navy. There are stories that he held orgies and young sailors were forced to take part against their will.

Mountbatten was a mentor to King Chuck, but that’s about the best thing you could say about him. He was one of many people who had a part in the deadly partition of India. Being killed by rebels who hated the crown should not have surprised anyone. The queen shaking hands with an IRA guy isn’t much different from her entertaining Mountbatten. Skipping over the least sourced allegations about his personal life, it seems that Mountbatten would have done it with anything on two legs.

Arthur Chatto can sit on my face

The Queen spent her whole life shaking hands with people she might not have approved of, at the direction of her government. She couldn’t refuse as a constitutional monarch.

'Private Eye' magazine mentioned Mountbatten's homosexuality in the 70s. Unsurprisingly Philip Ziegler's official biography did not pursue the matter. Andrew Lownie's recent biography however contains some detailed accounts of Mountbatten's peccadilloes pursued well into old age.

King Charles plays the cello - or he used to. Diana played piano.

And Edward played the skin flute.

Queen Elizabeth's first cousin - George Lascelles the Earl of Harewood - was, among other things, director of the Royal Opera House, chairman of the board of the English National Opera, governor of the BBC and president of the British Board of Film Classification.

Those other things including a pretty salacious private life including his mistress giving birth to their son while he was still married to his then wife and while she (Bambi Tuckwell - the mistress) was married to her then husband. Anyway eventually after a couple of divorces he married Bambi and after a number of years was brought in from social isolation as in those days fathering a child while married to someone else and not covering it up was considered infra dig in royal circles, when his cousin Queen Elizabeth awarded him with the KBE.

The Harewood / Lascelles branch of the BRF has made a habit out of children born out of wedlock, married mistresses and generally rampant shagging - they are very entertaining but I long ago gave up trying to keep track of their family tree. All very amusing considering that Princess Mary Princess Royal - mother of George and his equally fecund brother Gerald - was considered rather straight laced.

George Lascelles will forever be in my thoughts for bringing someone called Bambi Tuckwell into the BRF family tree. It's like the ultimate drag name.

R88 “strait laced” needs to be defined for that demographic.

Slight backtracking from Sir Ian? In an interview with the Financial Times, done around 7 September at the FT Weekend Festival, he said:

[quote]It’s a plague of our lives that actors, and directors too, have to do all this publicity, and we get ourselves into trouble because we say things we don’t altogether mean. This festival is, to me, just a chit-chat among friends, and it’s lovely. But I think I’m doing about 100 interviews to sell this movie. And that’s not what I do for a living.