"The fact that the Democrat isn’t beating a convicted felon by double digits is really bad"

[quote]What is your theory?

That it says a helluva lot more about Republicans than Democrats, none of it good.

OP-

Repug Trumper Wanna-Be Stealthy But Failed Troll

Are you Rip van Winkle, OP?

Asleep for 20 years sounds about right for your condition.

Trump is a convicted felon who is NOT in jail, lives in a mansion, and is treated with deference by talking heads on TV. Why should deplorables be expected to take "convicted felon" status seriously? They are not deep thinkers.

I think it says more of Democrats naïveté thinking that convicting Trump of THESE charges would carry water.

I forgot how cranky it gets here in the morning, most present having been up since four with enlarged prostates. R2 and R3, go fuck yourselves. You may want to Google it, obviously been a long time.

Take your baseless troll accusations and enjoy the silence of the block while the sentient talk.

Trump’s political opponent is a member of the sex whose members routinely refer to them as fish and cunts and think remarks about the scent of their genitals are simply hilarious.

How surprised are we supposed to he that it’s a tough fight for our current vice president to move up to the presidency?

She is running against Trump, Fox, Newsmax and OAN.

When Fox had to pay $787M in fines for lying about the 2020 election, their viewers are lucky to know Harris was Vice President.

Playing my hand, I blame the culture of the country. There's some in the self-reliance DNA that's gone haywire, like when cells go cancerous. The I got mine, pull up your bootstraps thing belongs to another age, but so many cling to it. Just a variation of Obamas Gods and guns line, except it isn't softening with time, but rather hardening. I don't get it, except maybe there's too much glorification of competition and sport and brute force and not enough value on learning and education.

This is R7, correcting typo, above.

I meant to say that Vice President Harris is a member of the sex that is called fish and cunts and whose genitalia are referred to as smelling bad by members of the DL

Trump dragged 1/3 of the electorate right down into Hell with him

My theory is half the country has below average intelligence and has collectively fallen for a con.

The quote below, from Lyndon Johnson, explains it all quite succinctly, OP:

"I'll tell you what's at the bottom of it. If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

This is the very simple reason 80 million Americans will vote for Donald Trump.

80 million adult Americans are NOT the benevolent, harmless little creatures they pretend to be.

and r11, that one third lives in an echo chamber of Fox, Newsmax, and OAN where they are lucky to have known if Harris was VP of the United States to begin with.

Deep in their hearts a good portion of Americans are either stupid and or worship stupid authoritarians. The Democrats are little different, in The fact they're corporate tools almost as much as the Repukes. .. Inequality is absolutely trashing The United States and yet, to even mention it, one is labeled as communist. Both parties are engines of furthering inequality and avoiding addressing its ills and causes. Any verbiage addressing it is vague to the point of libel.The rubes are tired of being yanked around by their short leashes. Ambivalence has taken over.

[quote] There's some in the self-reliance DNA that's gone haywire, like when cells go cancerous. The I got mine, pull up your bootstraps thing …

Add to that the hypocrisy of being law-abiding up to the point of when they disagree with a law they don’t like. Or believing in strong immigration policy but then hiring undocumented workers under the table. It really is “do as I say, not as I do”.

This is the kind of investigation that needs to be reported in the news about Trump and Vance. This one is a result of a claim by Bernie Moreno ( R), Sherrod Brown's Senate opponent in Ohio and details the investigation process. The media refuses to fact check Trump.

[quote]The Democrats are little different, in The fact they're corporate tools almost as much as the Repukes

BOTH SIDES!!!1!!

You’re all wrong. It’s two bigger existential issues. One — technology is requiring our brains for the worse. Two — we are primates.

There are many other layers too OP, you’re not going to get the answers from a single poster. It’s cultural, it’s ignorance, it’s a broken public education system, it’s the destruction of the middle class, it’s the propaganda, it’s sexism, it’s racism, it’s the class warfare, it’s poverty. It is highly complex, very difficult to dissect and measure because of the complexity.

But at the end of the day, Lyndon was right and he should know as he was an absolutely massive racist himself too. Takes one to know one, he knew his people.

^ Forgot to add addiction, mental illness, the women’s movement, even gay rights and the trans add to it too!

I predict she WILL beat him by double-digits almost everywhere.

[quote]that one third lives in an echo chamber of Fox, Newsmax, and OAN where they are lucky to have known if Harris was VP of the United States to begin with.

Yes. Not only that, but also right-wing websites, bloggers, influencers and the like. It's a steady diet of lies and disinformation, unencumbered by any semblance of reality. It really is brainwashing.

I can’t. Imagine why this might be

None of these numbers matter right now. Young voters do not take telephone polls.

We’ve essentially stopped teaching social studies and government. Even most of the younger end of middle-aged citizens don’t know the shared core values on which the country is based.

Hint - They are not “Me, Me, Me, Me” and “I got mine, Jack.”

Agree 100% with R1. It is really bad -- but it speaks to what the GOP base has become. The Dems haven't changed a whit, more or less. The Republicans have changed dramatically.

Think about it -- they've jettisoned so many of the principles they used to have. All in service of their worship of Lord God Trump. e.g., Standing up to Russia? Ha. Felons shouldn't vote, much less run for office? Ha. Any of us who follows this stuff could go on and on. What binds them now is they serve Trump -- and he hates the same people they hate. That's it really.

that the legacy media isn't pointing out that a convicted, soon to be sentenced, felon is doing so well is atrocious

[Quote] None of these numbers matter right now. Young voters do not take telephone polls.

They don’t vote either, by and large.

This doesn't help, either:

"The Russian disinformation operation is being laundered through both Americans and non-American voices."

r26 remember Sarah Palin's hilarious interview with Katie Couric? I rewatched it recently and was reminded that the GOP saw Russia as the enemy not too long ago.

No, the fact that a bi-racial Democrat female is neck-and-neck with him is miraculous.

The angry white straight Christian men (and the straight white Christian women who love and support them) who make up the Republikkkans figured out quite some time ago (my theory is in the 1960s) that they are losing their cultural dominance, and have struggled for decades, mostly successfully, to maintain complete control. First they did it by decimating our educational system, once the envy of the world, by "starving the beast." Then they did it by demanding that schools stop teaching — if they ever started — accurate history, civics, and anything related. Meanwhile, we had a "war on drugs" that was, essentially, a war of one segment of Americans against another segment of Americans in which we put more people in jail than any other nation on Earth.

While all of this worked, it didn't kill the American dream, and people continued to strive for "a more perfect union" and continued to put in the blood, sweat and tears that make democracy the only system of government worth having... and so, the Republikkkans went after and are going after democracy. Republikkkans have essentially given up on America because they cannot maintain complete and total control of the country, or more aptly stated, keeping black and brown people, gays and females down.

Everything in the Republikkkan playbook is about control, dominance, and White Nationalism. They even admit it (google Josh Hawley's video if you need evidence). And since so much of what they believe is wrapped up in religion, they've assumed the Machiavellian stance that the ends justify the means, and it gives them the moral justification for supporting an obvious con man, criminal, liar, cheat, un-American scoundrel who is willing to say the things that Republikkkans have been thinking for decades but were too embarrassed to say out loud. It doesn't help that our long-standing enemies, incapable of beating us on the battlefield, have co-opted Republikkkans for a few measly dollars. It shows you exactly how cheap the Republikkkans are.

That we've reached the point that the Democrat isn’t beating a convicted felon by double digits is, in fact, really bad; just not for the reasons OP wants to claim. As usual, the Republikkkans (and OP) want to blame the victims for the Republikkkans' malfeasance. It is not the Democrats' fault that Republikkkans have gone off the deep end and want to destroy America. Democrats still believe in the American dream and that our self-rule form of government is the best that mankind has to offer. The problem is they can't force Republikkkans to believe in it, too, without resorting to the same tactics as the Republikkkans.

All we can do is try to reach the few remaining reasonable conservatives and ask them to help us save America from the enemy within.

R8 is correct. There's a 24/7 propaganda machine against any Dem.

Americans are extremely divided. Republicans will vote for their own even though Trump is a deeply flawed candidate. But Trump’s support maxes out at around 47%. He’s always going to be a minority candidate.

R32 Bravo

People vote based on their feelings and feelings are never invalid.

Kinzinger on Kimmel's show takes down Trump.

R13 JFC that LBJ quote is over a half-century old. If you believe it still has any explanatory power, after all the profound cultural, political, social, legal, technological, and demographic changes that have occurred in intervening decades, then I don’t know what to tell you.

That hoary old quote and r32's conspiratorial and wordy riff on the same theme are both highly simplistic and unrealistic answers to a complicated question: why voters think the way they do in late-stage capitalism under a system that has left the majority of us in economic precarity.

Both Dems and Rs have been complicit. NAFTA, mass immigration, corporatization of everything, financialization of the economy, off-shoring of jobs, all of which occurred after LBJ, are on both parties.

They're brainwashed by propaganda. They hear lies all day, 24/7. Even when they go to church on Sundays, the preacher preaches that Democrats are demons. This non-stop drum beat works, they're lied to about the world, and their given an enemy to hate, and believing the lies and hating their enemies makes them feel righteous .

Maybe we aren’t telling pollsters that we support Kamala.

I think a lot of women married to MAGAs are secretly fed up and will vote for Kamala just to spite the Jim Bobs and Bubbas in their lives.

[Quote]Or, culturally, there is just something wrong with "the soul of the nation"

It's very much this. Blaming gerrymandering, the Electoral College, certain political parties, or politicians (even Trump) only goes so far. Ultimately, "we the people" are the problem.

[Quote]Just a variation of Obamas Gods and guns line

It isn't only, or even mainly, that. We have turned cynicism, irony, and social mistrust into our most deeply-held core values. We've woven it into our cultural fabric and the result is that the "soul of America" is a gaping maw of nihilism. Nobody has higher ideals, or at least ones that don't involve some form of tribalism.

OP, this is r2. You blocked me. I understand. I jumped to the wrong conclusion that you are one of those Repug "concern" trolls.

I'm not asking you to unblock me, I just want to say I apologize.

Thank you, r32. Posts like yours are why the DL will always be worth subscribing to for politics discussions.

I'd only add that Republicans, especially since Clinton won in '92, decided to mobilize their voters for local and state elections so they could be the majority in state government with, in addition to what you wrote, the long-term goal of gerrymandering congressional districts. Once that was accomplished, they wanted to make sure they could transform the Supreme Court.

Democratic operatives, way back then, tried to warn Democrats. What I described here is exactly what their opposition research showed to be Republican long-term goals way back in the late 80, early 90s.

As much as it pains me to write it, the Dems didn't heed those warnings and couldn't be bothered to vote in local sand state elections.

So, we own some blame for letting all of that happen.

R13 👏 👏 👏. Nails it.

Voting is more partisan than ever. Most Republicans will vote for ANY Republicans, he could have a million felonies and they wouldn't give a shit

It’s over. We are cooked!

OP, See r1. You have an....unusual take.

Frankly, it says a lot more about the stupidity and cupidity of our fellow Americans.

The kind who believe this is, always has been, and is ordained by God to remain "the greatest country on Earth," their ignorance leading them to vote in ways to preclude such an eventuality.

Oh, the utter depravity and evilness of it all, R47.

And yet they continue to verbally assault and try to tear down a kind and gentle man like our Lord and Savior, Donald J. Trump.

Praise God to give Mr. Trump the strength to persevere until November 5th when he will finally prevail among the dark, sinister forces who beset him.

R38 is the only person who gets it on this thread.

R47 If anyone is stupid enough to think that someone’s character is unfit for office because they got car sickness as a mafuckin child, that person is an unpredictable voter and could not reliably be counted on to vote to begin with.

I'm seeing this ad constantly on my local TV stations.

Really? Until you wrote that Teafcake, I wasn’t so sure.👽

For R51^

So basically this punk ass older brother wants to be Tim Walz’s Reverend Wright. It ain’t our fault Tim is a STAH and you never made it past the county fair. America already loves him. Nextttttttt.

[quote] Both Dems and Rs have been complicit. NAFTA, mass immigration, corporatization of everything, financialization of the economy, off-shoring of jobs, all of which occurred after LBJ, are on both parties.

Very true.

Dems are slightly less complicit in those matters and the party that still seems to be open to hear the public on some matters, but in most ways, the corporate money pouring into government removed it from we the people long ago.

Some places in the rust belt have gone full Trump because he's the only person in 40-50 years that ever mentioned their name (metaphorically speaking) or acknowledged their existence. A massive percentage of American citizens just fell off the map after industy fell and no one ever addressed it.

It's one thing to pay lip service to a problem, R56. It's an entirely different thing to actually try to solve a problem.

Trump's good with the useless verbiage. He's comes up way short on actually doing anything, like we saw from 2017 to 2021 (other than plotting a rebellion to assure he stayed in office).

R57 I agree 1000 percent.

But a big chunk of the loyalty he's gotten from his cult is simply because he acknowledged their existence.

It's total lip service and he has no use for them beyond a political one. But it's acknowledgement. It reminds me of an Oprah show from years back, where she said 90+ percent of the issues she mediated on her show stemmed from someone just wanted to be acknowledged.

I don't think Biden or Clinton understood that during their races and I'm not sure Harris does either. When the train derailed in OH last year all Biden had to do was show up, but unless I am mistaken he only had Pete there. Biden showing up in OH might have gotten him some more voters.

I loathe Trump with every fiber of my being and think his policies are terrible. But I think at least some of his base came from what could have been low lying fruit/easy pickins if someone in the DNC had paid attention. Obama was not very good at working outside his base and I think other Democratic leaders have been way too insular with resources and outreach in the fields.....though I see encouraging signs in the campaign for Harris.

R31 - exactly. This is the perspective that has substance. The perspective that functions as the title of this thread is doomslanting.

Most Republicans are angry and stupid. Trump is angry and stupid. And Republicans will love him forever for that, no matter what he does or says.

That LBJ quote is the foundational racism of America. It created our local police departments and sent poor whites looking for run away slaves and also stated that no Black man was worth paying like a white man no matter emancipation. And plantation owners created a second poor and stupid class for whites to enslave them as well.

Propaganda and fundamentalist religion. It's not that complicated. Those people say that there is NO WAY that they would EVER vote for a Democrat, even if Satan was the Republican candidate.

How could the LBJ quote (dated ~1960, according to Bill Moyers) have been the foundation of police departments looking for runaway slaves ?!

Through force of will and political savvy, LBJ enabled the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. He certainly never stated anything like what r61 is attributing to him—that no Black man was worth paying like a white man.

Thar saying predates LBJ.

No, it doesn’t.

I’m amazed how Harris is letting Trump dominate the media. I was actually stunned she took 5 days off after the DNC Convention. That allowed Trump to grab the spotlight back with his RFK endorsement and reduce her convention bounce.

And why can’t she go on friendly podcasts? Friendly stations to do interviews? She is letting the Trump Campaign define her. People don’t know her as much as the campaign thinks. Now she is going to spend the next 4 days preparing for a debate. Trump was in Pa today, giving speeches in NY (media coverage) tomorrow, NC on Friday and a rally in Wisconsin on Sat.

Idk. It seems like the Harris campaign is making the same mistakes as Hillary,

That convicted felon stuff is very hard to explain. It’s a complicated white collar crime involving a payoff and is the same crime committed 34 times. When something is too hard to explain it has little or no Impact on voters. Then criticizing the voters for not caring about the crime when other things affect them more is just a waste of time.

Harris needs to come out strongly on policy issues that matter to her. running on joy and hating Trump aren’t enough, Even though I wish it was.

Yes, Harris has kind of vanished from the media since the convention. She needs to work harder to not look like a lightweight.

Wow, three comments in a row from the same (?) bedwetter. Kamala is leading Trump in the national polls and several swing states. Trump is so far down that he will never come up. Republicans are endorsing her. Your pessimistic posts are just boring trolling.

Russian propaganda machines are churning to affect the campaigns; Iran is doing the same thing. If the rest of the free world is so afraid of another Trump win, why aren't their countries feeding disinformation about Trump and Vance?

We all know something has been wrong with the soul of the nation for a long time. Name one Republican senator or Congressman who isn't an evil fool? There aren't any and the Record of this Congnress over the last year is that they did not accomplish one thing except not shutting the government down, and they almost did that.

The other indictments for which has not yet been convicted are worse R67. And this one was worse than anything Bill Clinton ever did.

Trump was also convicted of lying about someone he sexually assaulted. Also worse than anything Clinton ever did.

Trump's charity was a flat out scam to cheat on taxes, and he was convicted of that too, although he was able to keep some professionals between him and the liability for that.

Ditto his fake university, also a scam.

Casino, also a scam.

Innumerable fake or fraudulent businesses.

But the public have high tolerance for liars, since they actually liked George W. Bush despite his usurping an office he wasn't elected to twice. Both Bush and Romney were frightful liars who lied almost every time they opened their mouths.

Trump is the face of straight white men who feel disenfranchised and blamed for everything (despite everything being their fault). They're fed up with being everybody's punching bag (despite using everyone as their punching bag).

This was bound to happen. They just needed a dictator to guide them.

Human beings are fundamentally based on wanting more: 1) more people/procreation and 2) more things/greed. Periods of prosperity and individualistic “settler” cultures mitigate this desire somewhat, but it never goes away. Humans get incredible thrill from privating each other and creating exclusivity in all areas of their lives. The “Haha I’m better!” attitude bleeds through all things.

Americans have never been morally advanced, just very rich and powerful in stage key moments of recent history. Now that we’re bigger than ever and in a period of diminishing returns economically, people are going “mask off” and competition is growing exponentially, brutally even. Republicans thrive in that kind of environment.

But there is hope. A “middle class” parent can only delude themselves for so long that their vanity kid is going to prosper, and enjoy (!?) struggling in a world of exponentially increasing competition. Even diehard Republican capitalists don’t really believe their own bullshit and are having fewer kids these days. They need someone else’s kid to struggle instead…

[quote]Either there's something wrong with the Democrats in terms of how Americans trust and perceive them.

This and, as seen in the first two replies to this thread, their inability to sincerely look inward and acknowledge where they've fucked up.

Because the "Trump is worse" redirection tactic whenever this is brought up is like saying "water is wet" when someone asks you why your boat is sinking.

We know Trump is awful. We know his enablers and supporters are awful. That doesn't shield your flaws. Handle them.

Put in context, we’re talking half the country split between Dems and Republicans. The other half apparently doesn’t care.

[quote]Playing my hand, I blame the culture of the country.

r9 I'll say that this is partially correct. The Democrats, in many ways, have gone a little too far with the cultural wars when it comes to issues of race, sex, and gender identity. Instead of promoting togetherness, their tactic was simply to demonize the majority.

White men are "evil." Masculinity (all masculinity) is "toxic." Men are evil. White people are evil. It has gotten so bad that White gay men are, believe it or not, now seen as "privileged" and "part of the problem." That was the only logical conclusion from demonizing White males in society so much. The natural response is to double-down. And because we still live in a somewhat patriarchal society, it is men on both sides of the culture war orchestrating and implementing these major shifts toward extremism.

And Roe v. Wade was a casualty of this cultural war that is no more than a pissing match between the males on both sides.

[quote]The Democrats, in many ways, have gone a little too far with the cultural wars when it comes to issues of race

[quote]White men are "evil." Masculinity (all masculinity) is "toxic." Men are evil. White people are evil. It has gotten so bad that White gay men are, believe it or not, now seen as "privileged" and "part of the problem."

Spoken like a white male who has never been on the receiving end of marginalization and discrimination based on his skin color. Come back to us when you’ve walked a mile in the shoes of a person of color. A black man could have a doctorate and be dressed in a 3-piece suit and would still be tailed in a store over the scuzzy white guy in jeans over in the next aisle. In a country where sundown towns still exist, black history is being muffled at an alarming rate through book-banning and suppression laws, the “brown migrants are crossing the border to rape and kill your precious families” mantra is making headways with people who live nowhere near the southern border and a black person can be killed simply for going a bit over the speed limit or for jogging through a suburban neighborhood, I’d say the Democrats have done just fine when speaking about race and the evils of RACEism.

Thank you, R82. R81 is nuts. The majority is being demonized? You’re essentially saying straight white males are the majority and are being ignored. They’re not. And they’re not losing rights when others are brought up to their same level of power and influence. Including me, a gay white male. I’m definitely not part of the club of straight, white makes, and I don’t want to be. I just want equal rights and opportunity and for everyone else to mind their own business. That’s not a lot to ask.

I think the white man demonization is a comparatively recent development. I was arguing the whole American dream nonsense and frontier mythology and my rights and emphasis on competition and winning is what distorts the politics, R81, because it distorts society . It's the reality of people voting against their own self-interest. This is a country that is content with part of the population lacking access to health care or decent basic education. It is a country where everybody thinks guns need controls but nobody is content to live with what that means, Republicans regularly undoing any progress - because their voters don't punish them for it. It's a country where lots of things lack proper funding but it's OK to cut taxes for billionaires and you don't get punished for it. It doesn't make any sense. Yet they keep getting elected. Sometimes into their nineties.

Reagan tapped into a divisive fantasy that wasn't real and can never exist, but somewhere inside people it resonated. I'm reading a book about the origins of Nazi Germany and the parallels are interesting. The Nazis gave Germans, particularly the young, a dream to believe in. And Germans were hungry for it. In time, in power, the Nazis so manipulated public opinion that when they introduced fear and intimidation into the mix of daily life, that consolidated their grip on their emotional power over the population. None of it seemed possible in the beginning. Everyone believed Hitler would moderate in power, be forced to moderate because that's politics. But incrementally, over a decade, he did the opposite and we know how that ended.

The current Republican party, logically, should not be palatable to a significant number of voters, but it is. Call them any name you like - stupid, greedy, corrupt - what is important is why. What makes their destructive influence possible? I give KH credit for the tone of her campaign. It could resonate. She's basically running as Andy Beshear or some other centrist. I think it will be enough and maybe if Trump fever breaks the Republicans can recover some semblance of normalcy, because two parties are going to exist so both may as well be as close to normal as they can get.

But what is it in Biden's "soul of the nation" that sustains the most prosperous of Trump's "shithole countries" and when will the American psyche and culture adapt to what I'll describe as a more European outlook? Because politically, socially and morally - is this working?

[quote]Spoken like a white male who has never been on the receiving end of marginalization and discrimination based on his skin color. Come back to us when you’ve walked a mile in the shoes of a person of color.

Lol. I'm a Black woman. Not even gonna bother to read the rest of your nonsense, because I suspect you're a White male. So, your words and opinions don't matter. Gillette said so.

Joking aside, I just happen to not take kindly to demonization and hatred toward any group regardless of one's background. I'm Black. I'm a lesbian. I have basically hit the "victim Olympics trifecta" according to many of you here, yet I choose not to use that as an excuse spew a lot of the bullshit that I have not only grew up around, but has now become mainstream and acceptable. Maybe grow a fucking spine and stop being okay with this bullshit? It's regressive and, yes, why we've found ourselves where we are today in American society.

We're hateful as a culture. And it's disgusting.

^ For r82

My neighbor's only news source is Fox. When Fox shows Walz speaking they immediately cut and go back to their talking head. Pure propaganda, oh and Harris is female. I've heard many women remark that they don't think Harris will seen as a strong leader against Russia or China. I said to one woman "could that say more about the way you feel about yourself than Harris' actual abilities?".

The debate is next Tuesday. Harris will be sitting on the same stage as a man who will be sentenced 8 days later for 34 felony counts. Counts that deal with paying a porn star to keep quiet about sex with the candidate. With the enthusiastic support of the party of Reagan? Unbelievable.

[quote]You’re essentially saying straight white males are the majority and are being ignored.

r83 No. I'm saying that White people, in general, are the majority (you are the racial majority in this country statistically) and that White males in particular are being painted as "evil" regardless of sexual orientation. Straight White males are definitely seen as more evil than gay white males. But considering that most people see your sex and race before knowing, or caring about, your sexual orientation, you can consider yourself lumped in there with the camp of "evil white men" that Democrats have gone too far with vilifying. Take that however you want.

[quote] This is a country that is content with part of the population lacking access to health care or decent basic education.

r84 I disagree with this point. I don't think anyone, in their right mind, is content with this. People just have differing opinions on how to logistically go about implementing a plan to resolve this matter in a way that is both sustainable and effective. But it's myopic to sincerely believe that the country is "content" with anyone lacking access to these resources.

[quote] It is a country where everybody thinks guns need controls but nobody is content to live with what that means

I assume you mean an outright ban, here? I'll say this. Because our culture is far too saturated in gun ownership that the altruistic call for "banning all guns" to solve the gun violence issue, while harmless in its intent, will, sadly, lead to worse outcomes. This is one instance where you cannot compare America to other countries. For example, UK and Australian law enforcement (at certain levels) don't carry firearms because the vast majority of citizens don't own firearms. This would never work, here.

If we banned firearms for citizens in the US, we'd have to heavily arm law enforcement due to the large number of Americans who would definitely not follow that law (because they're criminals). This would, in turn, create an environment where the only gun owners are cops and violent criminals. That's what that means. If you're willing to live with that, then more power to you, I guess.

[quote] I give KH credit for the tone of her campaign. It could resonate. She's basically running as Andy Beshear or some other centrist.

I'm curious. What aspects of her campaign seem to take a "centrist" angle, to you? Do you think her choice for VP has a demonstrably centrist political record?

[quote]I think it will be enough and maybe if Trump fever breaks the Republicans can recover some semblance of normalcy, because two parties are going to exist so both may as well be as close to normal as they can get.

I think both parties are too far gone to be saved, but I'm a cynic by nature and may or may not be slightly "black-pilled."

R89... it's more a tone thing... she's completely avoiding any reference to identity politics, depriving Republicans of the oxygen to play that card effectively.

I do not mean an outright ban, obviously guns are too important to the population. It's too late for a ban.

I think you're wrong on public funding and how it is dispersed. Look at red lining.

Overall, I believe in American culture there's a reflexive me first, which is human, but also a reflexive you're on your own, which is a choice. Americans are willing to help, if so inclined, but very uncomfortable with being expected to help. The government is coming to take your hard earned money and trample your freedoms. It's the fundamental difference between the States and the rest of the world, which in the West at least is much more sanguine about the role of the state and limits through legislation. They're probably just as unhappy with the politicians and politics but they're not fussed about the state as a delivery mechanism, particularly around healthcare. But again, that's the entrenchment of the profit motive in U.S. care and the profit motive in all aspects of daily life. People make a lot of money off fear, selling guns to people and military equipment to local police forces.

Government is the people. Better the government than a private rich person taking your moeny and trampling your freedoms.

[quote]Overall, I believe in American culture there's a reflexive me first, which is human, but also a reflexive you're on your own, which is a choice.

r90 I think the comic (and show) 'The Walking Dead' highlighted this uncomfortable truth about the human condition perfectly. When one's basic needs are not only unmet, but the lives of you and your loved ones are threatened, it is natural to for humans to only care about "me and mine" as a survival instinct. I believe the pandemic tapped into this primal force of humanity a bit and it has opened a Pandora's box of sorts that can't be opened. This is why I don't see us going back and the phenomena you're concerned about only getting worse.

At the end of the day, so long as money is the driving force behind the difference between survival and death, it will be an easy weapon to manipulate the populace. People who work hard everyday only to struggle will look at the large chunk of their paychecks going out for taxes and will, understandably, want that money to have a viable return on their investment. In other words, the taxes we pay should benefit us and our families. The key is finding a way to ensure that the basic needs of the citizenry are met by funding these social programs that is, again, sustainable and effective.

Which country is doing this the best and how can we mimic their model in such a way that is economically feasible? Keep in mind, we are a nation of over 300 million people.

^ *can't be closed

[quote]Some places in the rust belt have gone full Trump because he's the only person in 40-50 years that ever mentioned their name (metaphorically speaking) or acknowledged their existence. A massive percentage of American citizens just fell off the map after industy fell and no one ever addressed it.

Oh, for Christ's sake, please stop with the poor, neglected rural community bullshit. There could be nothing further from the truth than this idea that "we forgot rural America!" when the reality is that our entire system is geared to pandering to and taking care of rural communities. The most obvious tool is the Electoral College, which gives people in rural communities anywhere from 2 to 20-times the voting power than folks on the coasts and in more populous states. The reason Donold was even elected in 2016 was due to the EC and the fact that (without trying to open a can of worms) Hillary got 3 million more votes than Agent Orange yet the election came down to 90,000 votes spread across three states is the only honest testament to our electoral system garbage. If you want to defend the EC, tell me why someone in Ohio votes count for 6 times what my vote in California does in a country that was supposed to be one person=one vote and "All men are created equal".

Our system of commerce is entirely set up to benefit rural America. For example, if people in these so-called "forgotten" communities had to pay the actual production costs for the goods and services that enable modern life, they could not afford them. We all subsidize their cable TV and internet (and before you go, Oh big deal, bear in mind that the internet is as vital to our lives today as electricity was in the early 1900s), which is an outgrowth of the fact that we subsidized rural electrification and in granting the way-old telephone company a monopoly we required universal service. People whose phones cost a hundred times to make work paid the exact same price as the people whose connections cost a tiny fraction of the service charge. And on top of that we had direct subsidy of many rural households electric and telephone connections. So when you look at your cable bill, bear in mind that a portion of what you're paying is so that Memaw and Peepaw can watch Fox News in flyoverstan.

Beyond communications and electricity, don't forget that the interstate highway system makes rural life, commerce, and travel possible. The vast majority of the hundreds of millions of miles of highways, freeways and byways were not funded by rural taxes.

So no, politicians and the electorate at large did not forget or neglect rural America. This has been a Republikkkan talking point for 50+ years because it appeals to their resentment that American life has migrated from rural communities before the Industrial Revolution to urban communities following man's nature to want to live in groups and vibrant communities. Rural communities see all of the benefits of living in cities and complain that they aren't afforded the same opportunities, completely ignoring the fact that it is those urban communities that make rural life possible.

[quote]tell me why someone in Ohio votes count for 6 times what my vote in California does

r94 I don't think it works that way, though?

[quote]Not even gonna bother to read the rest of your nonsense, because I suspect you're a White male

Your suspicion couldn’t be further from the truth. I really don’t give a shit if you read what I wrote or not, but it is the truth. Posing as a black lesbian and bolstering an Aunt Jemima-esque view (if, that is, you really ARE a black lesbian) of how “poor widdle white men” are being demonized when history shows that the demonizing his warranted, is embarrassing and borderline psychotic.

Poor Trump. Thoughts and prayers for losing the only thing in life he truly cares about.

^Add to that, reportedly Putin has publicly stated that he’s supporting Kamala Harris for her “infectious smile.” I trust Putin about as much as I would trust a cobra around a baby, but that has gotta make Dump’s ass itch.

[quote]history shows that the demonizing his warranted

r96 You're literally arguing that it's perfectly acceptable for an entire racial group to be demonized because of the actions of people from the same racial group? In other words, don't treat people as individuals with their own thoughts, feelings, and stories, but treat them as a collective based upon their race. And this is, somehow, "progress" to you.

Have you considered therapy? Serious question.

And I assume this is but one of the many incarnations of Teacake who recently admitted in another thread to having multiple usernames. If so, yes, this mindset is exactly what I'm talking about; assuming white men deserve hate for being white and male. And no, gay white men don't get a pass outside of the community. You know they're seen as "problematic" as well.

three reasons:

1. trump is a shitty candidate. he will always get 47 percent, but never more. by a fluke he won in 2016 because of it.

2. if there were another candidate, they would be winning

3. the country is significantly divided. honestly, and truly. the parties have shifted apart (the GOP by a great deal) and thus there will ONLY be close races from now on

^You’re reaching. Your original post said Dems have gone too far with demonizing white men as evil. Wha?? 😂 Where exactly have they done that at?

Dems by and large (as opposed to their republican counterparts) aggressively point out systemic racism e.g. voter suppression, book banning, etc, which - news flash - in 20-fucking-24, are still a major issue in this country. The rest of your post is drivel not worth mentioning (Teacake? 🤷). Try preaching about demonizing an entire race of people based off the actions of a few to the denizens of those sundown towns I mentioned upthread.

R101 @ R99

There is a reason why on urban blogs some black females state black men are the white people of black people. If that makes sense. We must stop demonizing heteronormativity and masculinity.

[quote]You're literally arguing that it's perfectly acceptable for an entire racial group to be demonized because of the actions of people from the same racial group?

Especially if they are White Evangelical Christians.

Trump pulling out of three states.

[quote]Donald Trump has quietly wound down his presidential campaign in states he was targeting just six weeks ago amid polling evidence showing that Kamala Harris’s entry into the presidential race has put them out of reach and narrowed his path to the White House.

[quote]The Republican presidential nominee’s campaign has diverted resources away from Minnesota, Virginia and New Hampshire – states Trump was boasting he could win while Joe Biden was the Democratic candidate – to focus instead on a small number of battleground states.

We need to demonize masculine toxicity

It’s not the Democrats fault.

R89 - sorry I called you nuts. I shouldn’t have. And your point about white males is taken. As a gay white male, though, I’m very much aware I don’t belong to that club. I have felt myself excluded once my sexuality is known, not that I aspire to be part of that club in the first place. I don’t. Clubs are stupid. Back to your point, though, I guess it depends on the perspective. If you’re a black person looking at me without knowing my sexuality, yeah, I can accept that maybe I’m an evil white male. In reality, though, straight white males - well, tbh, mostly Christians - of any stripe - see me as evil existing in a group outside any others. I’m not playing “who’s got it worse”, though, because no one wins in that game, but if we’re going to dissect the problem, we need to also be cognizant that everyone has their own perspective of where they do and don’t belong.

[quote]A black man could have a doctorate and be dressed in a 3-piece suit and would still be tailed in a store over the scuzzy white guy in jeans over in the next aisle.

Complete utter horseshit r82. I’d address the rest of your ridiculous post but r85 already took you down enough for one day.

[quote]Complete utter horseshit [R82].

Truly spoken like someone without the life experience of knowing what that scenario is like. I said what I said. You, on the other hand, can go fuck yourself.

[quote]I’d address the rest of your ridiculous post

But you won’t, so sit this one out, junior.

Personally, I like to think that the overturning of Roe v. Wade, the capital riots and other things have opened up some people's eyes.

Dems have exceeded expectations in the last few election cycles - I think it's going to be a huge shift. Of course Republicans will lie and throw out votes.

R84, this is NOT a country where everyone is in favor of gun control. You are clearly not an American. Drop the mask.

You're basing this on polls OP. Polls are notoriously wrong far more than they're right.

I blame much of this on reporting.

The Repubs do a much better job of branding and defining Democrats than the Dems can do for themselves. Repubs work overtime to paint Dems as bad, and Dems don't do enough to paint themselves as good.

The Repubs convinced families that it was in their best interest to stay conservative. Then they went after Christians, and scored. Then they brought out the homophobia in a certain group, and scored. Then they went after Catholics, and scored. Most recently they've won over more than 50% of the Jewish vote, which used to be solidly blue.

None of these groups have anything in common with each other except for the dogma of hating liberals. And that's a learned trait.

[quote] Your original post said Dems have gone too far with demonizing white men as evil. Wha?? 😂 Where exactly have they done that at?

r101 I said what I said. If you don't see it, it's because you genuinely don't want to see it. Honestly, it's the demonization of white people as a whole, but especially white men, and especially the straight men. It's not okay. Period.

r108 All I'm saying is that I've grown tired of the tribalism and it being socially acceptable in this country (yet again) to openly hate an entire race of people. I fail to see how we're supposed to come together as a nation and peacefully coexist when the answer to discrimination and systemic racism is...more racism. It's counter-productive. It's childish. And I'm just tired of the shit. It's the one area, I believe, the Democrats/Left needs to get a handle on, call it out, and stop this "party over principles" bs. Let the other side practice that toxic mess.

You don;t know she is not beating him. Clinton was supposed to crush Trump by all polling accounts and she lost. Polls are small samples of voters.

There is nothing wrong with the “soul” of America, troll OP.

r8 And Elon Musk amplifying anti Democrat sentiment and promoting ,Right wing extremes on twitter/ X. He manipulates the algo so his tweets appear prominently on majority of timelines.

R119 blocked for the baseless troll nonsense. You need to be told, moron.

[quote]Most recently they've (Repubs) won over more than 50% of the Jewish vote, which used to be solidly blue.

Republicans have “won over” the Jewish vote? No. A certain segment of Dems have recently alienated portions of the Jewish vote. I wonder why that could possibly be r115 ?

Some posters here see politics like just another daytime soap.

[quote] Or, culturally, there is just something wrong with "the soul of the nation" and whatever the Democrats are or aren't, do or don't offer, it doesn't matter because too many of the population have just set their minds to a position.

It is this.

Maybe because during the Biden/Harris administration cost of living skyrocketted, housing is unaffordable, wages are shit. Trillions of taxpayer dollars are invested in wars on other continents, billionaires doubled and tripled their fortune while people are living like in some 3rd world country.

Those who are not upper or upper middle class or personally involved in identity politics probably are less than thrilled with current administration.

Palestinians are more likely to be Republican than Democratic R122. Get a brain, as a Small Foreign Faction would say.

which is stupid, trump is the single worst thing that could ever happen to Palestine

It was stupid, but it was true, as is always the case with republican voters.

[quote]during the Biden/Harris administration cost of living skyrocketted, housing is unaffordable, wages are shit.

More bullshit.

Inflation was high post-Covid because the lockdowns and supply chain problems we all experienced showed massive corporations that the public will accept higher prices without complaint... until they won't. I shouldn't call what we've experienced in the last few years inflation; it's greedflation and the proof is in the exponential increases in corporate profit. Hell, even the president of Tyson foods publicly said that they raised prices [italic]because they could[/italic] and until there was pushback, they would continued raising prices. It's good for the bottom line.

There is also a lot of reasons why the price of housing skyrocketed, not the least of which is that everyone decided they wanted a large house with room for a couple of home offices when the pandemic brought us work-from-home and everyone else found out that living in 600 square feet in the city will drive you insane if you can't get out of the apartment for the majority of the day. Combine all of that with the fact that after the 2008 housing crisis we saved the big banks and did nothing to save individual homeowners, let alone the small contractors who build small and starter homes. I know this first hand; I have flipped houses and found that a great source of contractors looking to pick up a few extra bucks were the knowledgeable skilled floor help at Home Depot. In discussion after discussion with these men, I discovered that many of them were contractors who lost their shirts in the crash and ended up taking a paycheck and healthcare with HD rather than try to rebuild their collapsed businesses.

I could go on and on, but I'll be succinct: blaming Biden/Harris for the problems that decades of Republikkkan filibusteriing, refusing to do anything good for the American people, propping up corporations through massive tax subsidies and handouts, giving billionaires huge tax cuts and charging them to the national credit card while simultaneously screwing everyone else is the source of our problems. And like we've seen consistently over the last 50 years, when the Republikkkans screw things up we have a steady chorus of naysayers who turn around and complain that the Democrats can't fix the Republilkkkan disasters fast enough.

Imagine where we'd be if instead of giving in to the Republikkkans every 4/8 years, we elected the Democrat instead and continued watching our economy soar, people's lives getting better, and finally, at long last, reaching some conclusion to the myriad of issues Republikkkans cause, refuse to fix, and dump in Democrat's laps. No Iraq/Afghanistan war; no housing collapse, no healthcare crisis, no pandemic... all issues either directly caused or made worse by Republikkkans.

[quote] Those who are not upper or upper middle class or personally involved in identity politics probably are less than thrilled with current administration.

Were those same people dissatisfied with Trump tearing through the U.S. economy, bartering our national security and begging Arab tyrants for money? Or were they content with the paltry 9% return on their meager investments as a fair price for cozying up to foreign adversaries and destroying our moral stature. Our current crippling inflation is the direct and natural consequence of Trump's stupidity and continuous failures.

R128 people usually punish those who are in office, they don't tend to look 20 years back. The fact is that last 3 and half years were horrible for ordinary people and normally those who are not wealthy and don't have some strong identitarian connection with Democrats will put the blame of them.

Same happens in Europe, people have been punishing whoever was in office after pandemics. So the liberal parties lost to conservatives, but also conservatives lost to liberals in conservative bastion like Poland due to housibg crisis and price gouging.

R129 the truth is that people in US just as we do in Europe remember 2016 to 2020 as golden years compared to now. My real salary was probably worth double than it is now, you could afford nice restaurants, holidays etc. if you bought a house it costed at least 50% less than now. This is what people remember and they don't care about the excuses that Trump was ruling through better period. The administration's job is to fix things and if they are incapable doing it they will lose support. If this administration had done something for ordinary people as they did for big corporations, Trump would never had stood a chance. In fact, you have to thank identity politics and fear of Trump for the fact that VP of this incompetent administration still has votes of half US population.

[quote] this incompetent administration

Again, more bullshit.

This administration pulled the US out of the worst decline in jobs, inflation, soaring costs and everything else that the Repubkikkkans caused or made worse. The US has the best economy [italic]in the world[/italic] post pandemic and it is due directly to Joe Biden's policies and programs that did reflect what he learned from the Obama years, that growing the economy from the middle-out and bottom-up is the only way to grow the economy sustainably and for the long term. Biden put together in short order a plan to vaccinate 350 million people, and got 200 million shots in arms within the first hundred days of his administration, and did it without [italic]any[/italic] help from the outgoing Dotards (recall that they refused to even disburse transitional funds to the incoming administration to lease office space for a few months). Biden saved the world with one hand tied behind his back.

This administration passed more long-term growth legislation than any other in modern history. And touching on the comments I made at R94, note that the ratio of spending for rural/red districts is 4 to 1 for urban/blue districts; that's right, we bowed down and kissed rural Republikkkan ass once again, making sure that [italic]they[/italic] enjoyed the majority of the benefits from this legislation.

For the first time in 50 years, manufacturing is coming back to the US.

Border crossings are at a generational low. And we'd have a handle on the Fentanyl and human trafficking crises if DonOld hadn't killed the bipartisan immigration bill (that the Republikkkans should have 100% voted for as it contained everything they've [italic]said[/italic] they wanted in a border bill for the last 50 years).

For the first time EVER, the USA is energy independent.

The reality is that if this were a Republikkkan administration, this election would be a blow out a la Reagan in 1984, and it is due solely to billionaires funding "think tank" operations and more plainly stated, legions of liars, and spent 5 years bleating "he's old" to tear down Biden, that this election is even close.

I adore you, r128 and r132

[quote]the truth is that people in US just as we do in Europe remember 2016 to 2020 as golden years compared to now.

"Golden years" is just about the last phrase I'd use to describe that time. But then, I care about more than being able to afford nice restaurants.

Hi R124. Housing prices skyrocketed due to the housing market crash thanks to the mishandling of COVID-19 by Republicans. People could not pay their rent/mortgage. Corporations snapped up houses at rock-bottom prices and turned around and rented them at sky-high rates. Landlords who promised to not charge rent during the pandemic turned around and upped rent by 2 to 3 times to recover losses, all the while getting PPP loan forgiveness in the millions - all from Republicans.

Inflation. Inflation is down but the high prices were due to two things, Trump Trade tariffs and the mishandling of COVID-19. Mexico and China refused to buy American produce in retaliation to the Trump trade wars so he paid them billions to help prop up the farms. Those billions were given, not loaned and have zero oversight on them. Remember the big stink about loaning the automakers billions? Billions they paid back. Multiply by two but it is never paid back. Add to that permanent tax cuts for corporations and tax cuts for the middle class. He took trillions out of the economy with no way to replace it. Also, corporate price gouging is unchecked, Gas prices just raised for no reason. Food prices as well. It just came out that one of the largest grocery owners - Kroger, inflated the prices of eggs and milk for no good reason. Look at Coca-Cola. Pre-pandemic a 2L bottle was a dollar. Now it is over 3 dollars. The same bottle of soda produced by Walmart is 1 dollar. How is it Walmart can sell their brand for 1 dollar but Coca-Cola charges 3x as much? Is it 3x as much to produce? Doubtful. Does it cost 3x as much to transport. Again, doubtful.

You are starting to see housing prices come down because the corporations are no longer buying up housing an starting to dump houses as they cannot get the high rent the want to charge. Corps can take huge losses. They just get to write them off and pay zero in taxes. Ask Trump, he has been doing that his whole business life.

Fact of the matter is every republican President from Reagan on has tanked the economy and Democrats have built it up strong only to get pushed out and the next Republican to tank it ever harder. Bush Jr nearly bankrupted America and Obama fixed it in 2 years, so well infact Trump inherited a record job growth market that could not be stopped. Remember how republicans said Obama;s job numbers were a lie until Trump took office and suddenly they were true?

I keep hearing from people like you how shitty the economy is but watch the news record spending, record travel, more Americans getting more pay, buying more, so much the Fed had to raise interest rates to slow down spending, yet it still continued on.

R134 surely a good burger from time to time would be enough, but people can hardly afford the groceries.

And I believe thaf there are more important things for you, because you are probably from privileged caste, home owner with savings, but people whose rents and bills doubled can hardly live from high ideals.

[quote]The fact is that last 3 and half years were horrible for ordinary people and normally those who are not wealthy and don't have some strong identitarian connection with Democrats will put the blame of them.

r130 This.

Shutting down businesses and stopping people from earning a living during COVID is a pain point. And a lot of people blame Democrats for the economic bloodbath that followed. Schools going virtual? Fine. Limiting public gatherings? But studies showed that shutting down businesses had only a small to moderate effect on mitigating the spread of the virus.

[quote]Targeted closures of face-to-face businesses with a high risk of infection, such as restaurants, bars, and nightclubs, had a small-to-moderate effect. Closing most nonessential businesses delivering personal services was only somewhat more effective (moderate effect). When these interventions were already in place, issuing a stay-at-home order had only a small additional effect. These results indicate that, by using effective interventions, some countries could control the epidemic while avoiding stay-at-home orders.

Source(s): Inferring the effectiveness of government interventions against COVID-19, Brauner et al.

There are at least 100,000 small businesses that never recovered from that. Black-owned businesses took the hardest hit. That's an entire voting bloc who likely (make that definitely) blames the Democrats for "fucking with their paper." Especially when the science shows that banning large gatherings and shutting down schools to go virtual were far more effective.

The average American who was directly affected by this will not care about the details. They will blame the Democrats because from a casual observer standpoint, Democrats were "pro-shutting down businesses" and crippling them financially. It's best to meet people where they're at and just try to fix that specific issue to regain that, likely lost, voting bloc back.

R137, I was a small business owner that had to close down due to the pandemic.

March 2020 - closed - Trump was president, told 90 days earlier a pandemic was coming, does nothing to mitigate the crisis, only closes border to brown people and lets tens of thousands of American ex-pats in China return to US resulting in cells of infection that quickly grow out of control; however, saves Wall Street

April 2020 - closed - Trump still president, says it will go away magically, hoards government reserve stash of ppe. People start dying in real numbers.

May 2020 - closed - Yup, still Trump. First round of PPP - thanks to the Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats - saves my business.

June 2020 - closed for half the month - Trump tells us to drink bleach and shove lightbulbs up our asses while thousands of Americans die every day

July 2020 - open, then closed for one of the waves - Trump whines about election interference, still doing nothing to stop the virus, harassing health care workers who then get death threats from MAGAts

August - open and closed - President Trump still there, still lying about everything

September 2020 - open - Trump says it is almost over, hands everyone $600 demanding that his signature be on every check

October 2020 - closed - Trump bemoans contagion as he rams Amy Coney Barret through SCOTUS confirmation despite third wave, Halloween cancelled

November 2020 - open - Trump loses, there's hope

December 2020- open - Trump says the election was stolen, Christmas alone

January 2021 - open - Insurrection and finally, inauguration of Biden

February 2021 - open - Biden! Vaccine coming

March 2021 - open - Vaccinated! Things finally start to return to something resembling normalcy

Now, tell me again how the Democrats are at fault for the closings?

[quote]February 2021 - open - Biden! Vaccine coming

Amazing r138. All Biden had to do was get inaugurated and magically a vaccine was developed and made available in a few short weeks.

R139 especially when there was so much hydrocloroquine and ivermectin.

[quote]March 2020 - closed - Trump was president, told 90 days earlier a pandemic was coming, does nothing to mitigate the crisis only closes border to brown people and lets tens of thousands of American ex-pats in China return to US resulting in cells of infection that quickly grow out of control

r138 This...this isn't accurate. You really need to not allow partisanship to affect how you consume information and facts. Anyway, here's your boo Trudeau explaining, in March 2020, why he didn't close Canada's borders to China entirely "like the United States did." Frankly, the only countries that got this right were South Korea and Japan. All of the Western nations went full retard with the travel bans in the early months.

So, again, if you want to convince someone who has lost their business in a blue state due to a blue governor telling them they couldn't make money anymore, you're going to need to meet them where they are at. And humbly and carefully. Money is funny right now and the driving force at the ballot box. Because all of those Black small business owners in blue states remember is "So-and-So blue governor fucked with my money."

^ For kicks, here's Biden criticizing Trump's travel ban to European countries...in March 2020.

And to remain fair and balanced on how effective those Trump administration travel bans were in late January-early February 2020.

Republicans are at fault for the closings because the president has almost unlimited power in a public health emergency. He could have nationalized paper factories and pumped out a billion N95 masks: then no need to close anything. State governors do not have that power. And they were told unless you close NOW everybody is going to get it. Trump didn't disdain the nationalization option because he wasn't aware of it: later when abbatoir employees wanted to go on strike because they were not being given protection, Trump threatened to nationalize their factories to keep the meat moving. He just didn't want the GOVERNMENT to interfere with private businesses like the Koch Brothers' many paper factories.

President during Covid - Trump. Congress during Covid - Republican-controlled. Senate during Covid - Republican-controlled, Blamed for Covid - Democrats and Fauci.

[quote]Republicans are at fault for the closings because the president has almost unlimited power in a public health emergency. He could have nationalized paper factories and pumped out a billion N95 masks: then no need to close anything.

r144 I'd say Republicans are at fault for the national stockpile being depleted after H1N1 and not properly funded by congress after the fact. They had the House and Senate if I recall correctly during most of Obama's term which is when H1N1 happened. A lot of this boils down to Congress. The president can declare a state of emergency and nationalize certain businesses (this was done with 3M during COVID). However, funding and passage of spending bills is usually handled by Congress. And they've been fucking up for a while, now.

Again, we know this. But the average, working class, or struggling small business owner can usually only see as far as their own problems and they will look to whoever appears to be closest to the problem for that problem. Don't shoot the messenger.

China was on top of this. And much less affected for a couple years

3M was never nationalized.

No, R139, credit for the vaccine actually goes to Obama. You see, post-SARS and the Repunlikkkan meltdown that Obama wasn't doing enough to protect the US from a pandemic, Barrack gave a White House grant to a group of scientists who were working on a new vaccine technology called mRNA. They worked on it, patented the technology, and formed a company named Moderna (get it... m[ode]RNA) and went on to produce the best and most effective vaccine. Without Obama's investment in 2010, there wouldn't have been a vaccine so capable of preventing this virus this quickly.

The funny part was that DonOld was so invested in taking credit for "Warp Speed", when the efficacy of the Modern vaccine came into question (specifically, the general scientific consensus that a vaccine usually takes years to develop). he wouldn't assure and explain to the American people that the technology behind the vaccine had been in development for years because then credit went to whoever had the foresight to fund it... and it was the black guy Agent Orange replaced. Once again, Diaper Don's ego bit him in the ass.

[quote]credit for the vaccine actually goes to Obama.

No. mRNA is merely a technology that has been studied (and subsequently funded by multiple presidential administrations in this country to research). Moderna is just a company that focused solely on developing an mRNA vaccine. They don't even own the patent on it and that is why there are patent disputes.

[quote]Repunlikkkan

The partisan brain rot is real. It's like you're incapable of having an impartial political conversation. It's evident with your repeated use of this term. You are literally the only person, I believe on this site, who does this.

^ *Studied for decades (since the 60s).

[quote]3M was never nationalized.

My bad. Isn't that what the DPA is for, though? A way to "nationalize" a company in an emergency without having a full government takeover? Wasn't that why it was created?

I guess I got it confused because of how closely they were working directly with FEMA.

We are in the depths of the political season, R141. I'll show respect to Republikkkans when they show even a modicum of respect to everyone — anyone — else.

I'm not holding my breath.

r153 I was mainly referring to how you've been making factually incorrect statements. I am merely suspecting that your "political passion" has become a blind spot. That is what "partisan brain" does. I'm not on the left or right. I fall more in the center if I absolutely have to choose, but I notice that it's difficult to engage people who are not only staunchly right or left but have allowed these politicians to have an actually effect on their emotional state.

No one's asking you to "hold your breath." You're just difficult to talk to.

You dirty piece of shit, we've bene listening to their daily lies for fifty years and now you quibble over nothing without recognizing the moral difference between left and right. You are a pig and a fraud R154 without the slightest bit of honor.

And I'm not R153. The fact is in real life you have to make a choice. There is no "middle ground" because these Republican shitheads have eliminated it. I once sent a columnist a l ist of 746 lies in the prime time speeches of the republicans in their 2004 convention. He just shrugged. So? These people have been creating fantasy constructs of lies for so long you CANNOT even number them and it is surprising anyone has even a tangential grasp of the truth, so pervasive are all their lies. John Kass, by the way, a real turd if there ever was one, and the progenitor in a sense of Nick Fuentes.

Human nature of course never changes, but for so many psychopaths to find a home in a dominant position in American life, the system really has broken down. The Supreme Court is the worst in American history, and since that history includes Roger Taney and Samuel Chase, that's saying something.

no, what's really bad is that the police union endorsed him. A convicted felon with 93 counts of whatever. A rapist. The guy that didn't protect them at the capital. How in God's name will anyone trust any of them anymore. Even if Trump loses, (which he will) we will still have them.

R158 how on Earth did not police unions endorse "defund the police" movement, it is beyond me

It’s completely beyond all human comprehension isn’t it r159. “Defund the police” was such a persuasive position.

R141, I'll grant you that my post at R138 had some factual errors, mostly incorrect timing of the events as I am sick, in the middle of a move, and mentally exhausted by the politics of this never-ending political season. Nevertheless, whatever discrepancies between what I said and the [italic]exact[/italic] sequence of events pales in comparison to what the Republikkkans say and do every damn minute of every damn day. It is very convenient of you to specifically quote one word — "republikkkan" — and then switch your argument "to have an actually effect on their emotional state."

I get the sense that you're really invested in being one of those uncommitted voter types that seeks attention, gets disappointed and lashes out when you're told that we've reached a point in which you must make a choice because the window for your attention-seeking is rapidly closing. I'm with R155/R156 insofar as agreeing that it is the height of hypocrisy when you call out a liberal for the exact same behavior that conservatives have stuffed down our throats for decades, and it's the reason Democrats have struggled: we've proven with the Harris ticket that Michelle Obama's "When they go low, we go high" mantra has been a complete failure in the face of the modern Republikkkan party. They are racist, fascist, theocratic degenerates willing to throw away 250 years of the best form of government man has ever devised because they can't get their way on everything... and you can't decide between them and us because I'm a mean old name-calling partisan.

Sit down and shut up.

DSemocrats have not had a "defund the police" mentality and republicans of course, have never wanted police to look into white collar crime. Stalin said the freedom of the west was an illusion because in practical terms, every local government used police powers to establish a corrupt dictatorship. Certainly true of Ferguson, and as far as minorities go, m any other locations as well.

oh, well, Stalin r162. Stalin should talk.

R138/161 I love you. Agree with you all you‘ve stated. ❤️

[quote]without recognizing the moral difference between left and right. You are a pig and a fraud [R154] without the slightest bit of honor.

r155 The fact that I've had similar said to me by individuals on the right during their version of moral grandstanding makes this line fall flat, I'm afraid. You think I'm a "pig and a fraud" for being more centered. The right thinks I'm a Godless babykiller. After a while, you stop caring how both factions feel about you for "not being on their side" and just continue thinking for yourself.

But sure. You definitely told me off, there. How many Hail Marys do I owe thee?

[quote]I'll grant you that my post at [R138] had some factual errors, mostly incorrect timing of the events as I am sick, in the middle of a move, and mentally exhausted by the politics of this never-ending political season.

r161 See my response at r165. All in all, I'm not and never have been emotionally invested in politics. I've always viewed it from a more cerebral/impartial position, and that was only when I started paying attention to it in my early 20s. Prior to that, I was apolitical. This is likely due to the fact that I have difficulty trusting powerful and wealthy people who have more power to gain based on nothing more than their words and how the general populace perceives the character they choose to present to the world. Perhaps powerful people don't evoke the same caution and serious distrust within you as it does me, and that's fine.

But, do understand that you see me criticizing democrats in this thread because 1) That's what the theme of the thread is, 2) There is naturally more push back to the OP, here, due to the users of this site leaning heavily democrat, and that's what I've been challenging because I just happen to like challenging certain political ideas. If this were a right-leaning site, it'd just be a circle-jerk of "how much democrats suck" with absolutely zero constructive discussions occurring and certainly not holding republicans accountable for anything which I have done here, also.

Truth be told, no matter who wins, I don't see a positive outlook for Americans due to how polarized and angry we've become as a nation. And that should bother everyone.

Anyway. Feel better.

You are not impartial. You are a quisling who is enabling the right. You are not using your brain in an impartial manner, but in order to reduce conflict, but we don't need conflict reduced at this time. It needs to be elevated. The time for your approach was in the 1970s when you could reason with the right. That hasn't been possible for a generation.

The fact that you don't think it matters who wins reveals you to be an arrogant fraud. You would only believe that because you have swallowed the idea that government and politics don't matter, that it's a sideshow to real life, and that is some idiot low IQ bullshit right there. These people are running your life and obviously you have fallen for the propaganda in spite of yourself. Well bitch, my parents were republcian politicians and I've been listening to the propaganda all my life and I can tell you frankly there is no ideology on the right. They are out to rob you, use you like a slave, and kill you, and there is no other agenda and there hasn't been any for a long time. They will lie about everything, pretend to any principle they think you might tolerate, and produce any and every fraud that works until they achieve their goal to make you destitute and unalive you. That is exactly what they want. You don't deserve any freedoms because a democracy runs on participation and your lofty stance above the fray marks you as a freeloader, in their terms a parasite.

So maybe one invited you to a country club for an afternoon, or you got a bonus at work that was a little more than expected? It wasn't enough to let you retire or protect you against the inevitable negatives of living. Meanwhile their stand against regulation means your air, water, land, and food are contaminated with industrial chemicals you know nothing about and which will very likely kill you if overwork and substandard health care and an uneducated population created by their spending cuts and propaganda education and the homeless and criminal element created by the lack social safety net don't get you first. But you think the left and right are equivalent because they are passionate. Life is only a spectator sport for a perpetual victim like yourself.

[quote]no matter who wins, I don't see a positive outlook for Americans

And right there you've demonstrated why the so-called political "middle" isn't the position that those who claim they're "independent" think it is. We are at a crossroads in America's timeline with this election. For the sake of this post, I'll stop with the names and disparagement, and tell you point blank that if Trump wins the American way of life ends. It is that simple. He intends on, essentially, privatizing the Federal government. That is what Project 2025 is all about. And before you try to tell us that Trump has disavowed knowledge of and participation in Project 2025, go read the 260-odd times it specifically uses the name "Trump", take a look at the list of contributors and authors which literally reads as a list of who's who in the Trump administration, and read the 960-odd pages that go into extreme detail and depth regarding [italic]how[/italic] they're going to do it.

This is a moment of existential dread. If Trump wins, America loses everything we've fought for, worked for and died for in the last 150 years. That is no exaggeration. Project 2025 is the blueprint to undo American democracy and to take the power [italic]from[/italic] the people and hand it to a handful of wealthy white Christian men who intend to turn the USA into a fascist theocracy. We've seen this playbook before and the comparisons are apt. If I had to assign the roles we're playing in this historical drama, I'd say you are a Neville Chamberlain-accolite obtusely suggesting that we should all rise above all this Nazi-Brown Shirt-domination stuff and... be happy. I think that's what you mean when you say

[quote]Perhaps powerful people don't evoke the same caution and serious distrust within you as it does me, and that's fine.

You're not cautious or serious or even distrustful of powerful people. You have demonstrated that very, very clearly. You are a rube. You are a tool. And you're being taken advantage of without even the slightest clue that it's happening. This is the most charitable understanding I can offer. I am inclined to be less charitable given what you've said.

You have fallen victim to exactly what you're trying to say you haven't, and you can't see it... or have, at least, convinced yourself you can't see it. I'm finding it harder and harder to believe you're a gay man living in America. The more I re-read this thread, the more I'm becoming convinced you are just another Russian/Republican troll.

Again, it is time for you to sit down and shut up.

[quote] I'm finding it harder and harder to believe you're a gay man living in America.

r170 I'm not and never said I was. I'm a Black lesbian. I made this clear at r85. And I was born and raised in Detroit. My family always voted democratic but was never very politically engaged. Today, none of them really seem to care anymore about any of it. And I somewhat share the sentiment. I'm not emotionally invested nor as passionate but when I said I see poor outcomes regardless of who wins, I meant the response of the people. Whoever loses, I see that side going nuts and causing chaos and violence because people on both sides have proven they're capable and willing to, quite literally, choose violence if their candidate loses.

I see the relationship between citizens being driven even further into vitriol and outright hatred. A perfect example of that is how cavalier people are with blatant racism being spouted against White people. I personally don't think that's okay. There are other who sincerely believe White people deserve it. That's why I'm no longer emotionally invested. A large portion of voters, on both sides, come off as morally bankrupt and unhinged to me. And the political leader encourage their behavior.

^ *others; leaders

Speaking of democracy, I found this interesting:

[quote] I see the relationship between citizens being driven even further into vitriol and outright hatred.

which is just going to get worse if Trump get elected.

[quote] A perfect example of that is how cavalier people are with blatant racism being spouted against White people.

give us an example.

At this point nobody is beating anybody. Polls are bullshit no matter who is ahead. The election is all that matters.

r174 He lost in 2020 and it has gotten worse. His existence as a candidate has, unfortunately, shifted the political landscape of this country in a way that I don't think is recoverable.

As for the examples of people being cavalier about racism against White people, go to my post at r81 where I bring that up, and read the responses, specifically r96 where the individual posits that the demonization of whites in modern society is "warranted" due to the history of racism in this country.

"Sure, Donald Trump incited an insurrection, but some rando on Twitter said white men are evil!"

R176 It had gotten worse because the threat of him still lingers since he announced running again in 2024. IMO the political landscape is moving into a more positive direction now that Kamala is running. I have hope.

I don't think anyone is demonizing white people. I think you've been listening to too many right-wingers filling your head with misinformation about Democrats and liberals. It's no different than Trump spouting "Biden is allowing criminals into the country is record numbers like we've never seen before." Just fear-mongering bullshit.

[quote] I see the relationship between citizens being driven even further into vitriol and outright hatred. A perfect example of that is how cavalier people are with blatant racism being spouted against White people. I personally don't think that's okay. There are other who sincerely believe White people deserve it. That's why I'm no longer emotionally invested. A large portion of voters, on both sides, come off as morally bankrupt and unhinged to me. And the political leader encourage their behavior.

I'll admit, I am somewhat curious about what a person who self-identifies as a "Black lesbian" would characterize as "blatant racism being spouted against White people." Racism is immoral and sinister because it is a way to dehumanize, oppress and disenfranchise a "race" of people -- like U.S. slavery/Jim Crow/structural racism, or Nazism in Germany. Racism allows the oppressor to rob the oppressed of property, opportunity, dignity, and life with impunity. It allows for the creation of a caste system that either results in geographic expulsion, or intergenerational deprivation, trauma and hate.

So I would like to hear from a so-called Black lesbian how racism against capital "W" White people -- the majority culture in the U.S. -- manifests and whether it affects any aspect of White lives.

"White man is the Devil" has been around since the pilgrims arrived. How is this anything new?

[quote]I don't think anyone is demonizing white people. I think you've been listening to too many right-wingers filling your head with misinformation about Democrats and liberals.

r178 No. Similar to how I'm sure a lot of White people (especially White liberals) have heard their friends and family say objectively racist and hateful things about non-Whites their entire lives, I have personally heard my friends and family say objectively racist and hateful things about Whites my entire life. And it's painted as them deserving it because of the history of White supremacy in this country. The same things I grew up around are now being presented on a larger scale due to social media, but this has actually been going on for decades.

r179 Racism is merely prejudice against another because of their race. You are referring to systemic racism in this post. Socially, anyone can be racist against any racial group. Why are you defending this? And why do you think I should be okay with racism against anyone who isn't Black just because I'm Black. I'm curious about your mindset, here.

[quote]the majority culture in the U.S.

Also, if you believe the only requirement to be a racist is to be a member of a country's racial majority, how do you explain apartheid in South Africa? Whites were a racial minority (and still are) in South Africa, yet somehow still managed to definitely be racist toward the majority Black South African population.

If a non-Korean moved to South Korea with the belief that all Koreans are inferior or "savages" are they magically no longer racist because they changed geographic locations and are now, by definition, a racial minority in South Korea?

Any black lesbian from Detroit would know how the Republicans have done their best to destroy towns like Benton Harbor, Flint, and Detroit.

[quote]Benton Harbor, Flint, and Detroit

r183 I've never been to Benton Harbor, acknowledge that Snyder and his administration fucked up the water in Flint, and Detroit has an incredibly corrupt (Democratic) city council it's not even funny. I was miserable when I lived in Detroit because of the crime and overall depressing atmosphere of the city. The culture also gets on my nerves. Also, the city started going downhill during Coleman Young's Mayoral term which is also when it saw the most crime. You couldn't pay me to move back there (I'm in the suburbs, now). But go off.

Yea yeah yeah. No it was going downhill in 1950, as any black lesbian would know. You're a sock puppet.

r185 What exactly are you trying to prove, here? Crime absolutely skyrocketed in Detroit during Young's time as mayor. And it's weird how you're trying to link just me being Black and a lesbian to "knowing" about any of this. I'm going by what I lived and the environment I grew up in. And it all sucked.

I read on a commentary that 52% of white women hated Hillary MORE than they hated Trump and that brings back memories. She was the Anne Heche of politics.

Crime soared everywhere in the nation at the time. Blaming Coleman Young instead of a capital strike by the Big 3 and banks may be more popular, but it's hardly real life.

Detroit lost over 100,000 manufacturing jobs in the 1950s. Who bore the brunt of that? Black workers just up from the south.

Coleman Young didn't chase them out. They were already leaving and interestingly downtown Detroit has maintained itself very well over the years as an entertainment center (including such events as teh Republican convention in 1980) etc etc etc. That's the problem with suburbanites. Everything they believe is false.

R81, Men of any color are not the majority. J/S. And "demonize" them? That's a damn sight better than what they've been doing to the real majority: women. We should ban Viagra and track vasectomies (with a 24-hour waiting period with forced viewings of "The Brady Bunch"). Or vice-versa.

It is not true that Democratic candidates or hopefuls at the national level have not acknowledged those men of whom you speak. HRC, for example, campaigned in W. VA. for job re-training of coal-miners. She explained it clumsily (mentioned putting the miners out of work, before the good news alternative), however.

Sen. Fred Harris was a champion of these "forgotten" men.

It has been Republican Governors who have refused the extension of Medicaid for their poorest citizens. It has been Republican Governors who have refused the extension of Free School Summer Lunch programs for their states' poorest children.

If these economically-disadvantaged or otherwise bereft men do not know that every single goddamn law for job protection, job safety, Workmen's Compensation, working hours, Child Labor, right to organize into a bargaining unit (aka, unions), anti-discrimination, accessibility, and more haven't been Democratic achievements;

If these same men do not know that the Social Security, Medicare, and the Affordable Care Act that they rely and depend on to live, literally, are Democratic achievements;

If these same ignorant men further know nothing of how Project 2025 plans to emasculate or eliminate every regulatory agency that protects them from the harmful effects of effluence from coal-mining, pig farming, logging, oil drilling, and more entering their drinking water and air;

Well, then, I'm sorry. The time for these men to have paid attention to people trying to educate them was rejected by them many decades ago. Cue the banjos and squeal like a pig.

To try in the span of a campaign to teach US labor history to the willfully ignorant is a fool's errand.

[quote][R81], Men of any color are not the majority.

r191 I was referring to White people in that specific sentence and only socially. White people are the majority. Everything else you mentioned, while true, will not resonate with a demographic who sees the "other side" hating on them for just being White. They are the casual voters who likely don't pay that much attention to every other valid factor that you listed, and will just go by random snippets shared on social media of a Democrat or leftist telling them why they should apologize for being White.

The social media era has made reaching people like this with hard facts a lot more difficult. So, I brought up the demonization as a weak spot for Democrats that they should get a handle on because that is the type of soundbyte that gets the most clicks on social media pages and goes viral.

And, I hate to be that person, but you have to keep in mind that the vast majority of the American voting public is under-informed and not that bright. The attention spans are also in the toilet due to advancements in communication technology.

Keep this in mind when taking into consideration the point I was trying to make about "demonizing White folks." You won't counter that will a well-thought out essay with facts on the exact state of their union. You have to counter the information they've consumed in the exact format they initially received it, otherwise, it absolutely won't be comprehended.

“One participant made more than $20,000 for several weeks of boosting assigned messages, according to the Zelle receipts.

One of the people who participated on an organizing zoom call was former Congressman George Santos.”

R192/r193, My error in mischaracterizing your post, re: "majority."

But as for White men feeling "demonized," that they should feel collective guilt as White men, well, I'm not totally on board with the Malcolm X-like opprobrium, but American history I think supports the latter, given those hoary chestnuts as decimation of Caribbean natives in the 15th C., slavery of Black Africans in the 18th and 19th centuries, Native American genocide in the latter 19th C., internment of Japanese-Americans in the 20th C., Hiroshima, Nagasaki and more war crimes against Asians in the 20th C., and "Shock and Awe" against Iraqis in the 21st C. Just big-picturing the gist of the US against people of color.

The men of whom you speak should be familiar with the Biblical imprecation that the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons, unto the 4th generation.

Now, does their learning more of any of the above have a snowball's chance of gaining their votes? Nope, nope, and nope.

But what else is left---tell them fairytales like they are children? Lie to them like they are marks? Flatter them like they are superficial? Make empty promises to them like they are dupes? "Listen to them" cynically like they are gulls?

AKA, Democrats should use the Trump playbook?

Or should the Democrats keep seeking equality of all our citizens, without privileges to any color, gender, religion---all those privileges that many Whites in general and White males in particular are loath to share?

Perhaps the disaffected men need to be reminded of another Biblical Verse: The Truth shall make you free.

Why on earth is this greyed out? This was a non troll OP expressing legitimate concerns all Democrats should have.

I hope you’re not a sock puppet, Black lesbian from Detroit. I am enjoying your posts.

Please god, don’t let r195 be a Dem campaign manager.

Really persuasive talking points, r195. Keep up the great work!

R195 are you aware that Black Americans are the ones who have the most ancestry from slave owners. You know that average black person has 20% European DNA, some up to 50% and it mostly comes from slave owners and foremen on plantations.

Majority of whites in US do not have connection with them, only some descendants from rich families from south.

So, according to your Biblical interpretations it is black folks who carry the sins of their great great fathers.

Another funny fact is that Obama is slave owner’s descendant on his white mother’s side. Allegedly, so is Kamala through her father’s ancestors.

Trump, coming from newer immigrants to US has no connections to slave owners.

R200 only connections to the patriarchy and mantle of white privilege.

White privilege does not exist. it is a stupid term invented by some privileged narcissist in academia and promoted by corporate elites to saw division.

R202 so sad.

R200, there is nothing funny about raping children and sexual molestation. The connection most Black Americans have to white slaveholders involves violence, abuse, coercion and shame.

Perhaps the worst part of the sin of slavery is that it created a racial caste system that enabled white immigrants -- like Trump's ancestors -- to swim over here, embrace white supremacy and perpetuate the violence, terrorism, discrimination and disenfranchisement aimed at the Black people who are descended from the Black laborers that built this nation.

You are silly R204. Men have been sexually violent towards women throughout the history. Be it forced arranged marriages, child brides, abuse of power toward servants, war sexual crimes. Women were considered to be husband’s property, do you think all your female ancestors conceived through consensual intercourse. Women have been raped in marriage and out of it.

Yet, the fact that the relationship or sex was not consensual does not make a man any less your ancestor. You carry his DNA, you have his characteristics, perhaps facial features or his personality.

I do not see how can the fact that the European admixture is the result of violence and abuse of power be fault of white Americans. It is a s if you said I was to blame that your great grandfather acted like a piece of shit towards your great grandmother.