The French were more fun in ancient times... when did they turn all straight?

When someone sat down and defined exactly what homosexuality is.

Christians ruined everything good and natural in the western world. And continue to do so.

Who wrote the description, a Roman or a Brit?

They seem to be very uptight.

Mais non, Monsieur OP...

What makes you think we're all straight?

[quote] Who wrote the description, a Roman or a Brit?

An ancient Greek. That tells you how gay the ancient Celts were... 🤯

Pics or it didn't happen.

Picts or it didn't Saxon.

Oui oui!

Did they engage in le chem sex?

Christianity was not antigay in Constantine's time. It only became antigay because they borrowed homophobia from Islam.

I'm not understanding the "satyrs and pans" reference.

Is he describing them as bleached blond with ponytails?

Something about "pulled back from the forehead, and back to the nape of the neck."

I'm not quite picturing what this looks like.

[quote] Is he describing them as bleached blond with ponytails?

I guess so. Sounds like it.

I wouldn't mind tumbling with that guy...

r8 He's a JEW

Finally we find out who Carly Simon was singing about!

When they were ruined by eastern religion, OP.

Abrahamic religions brought evil in the world and of course same same attraction had to be persecuted in other to make things as worse as possible to humans.

The Dying Gaul is absolutely gorgeous and has a moustache as described by Diodorus. Hellenistic statuary is my favourite.

I had to google to learn what a catamite was.

[quote] I had to google to learn what a catamite was.

It's that thing the doctor removes from your eye, so that you can see better.

Catamite.

The Dying Gaul

R10,

Evidence please?

Catamite - the bastard love child of Cats and Starmites

The French always had a flair for fashion.

Sounds like it's in their DNA.

[quote]R10: Christianity was not antigay in Constantine's time.

Untrue.

In the Wiki article, 𝐓𝐢𝐦𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐋𝐆𝐁𝐓 𝐇𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐲, one can trace instances of legislative homophobia creeping into Roman law from the 3rd Century CE onward (i.e., "222 – 235 – Roman emperor Severus Alexander deported homosexuals who were active in public life. According to Christius, Alexander increased the penalties for homosexuality throughout the Roman Empire") - and this from non-Christian emperors who were nonetheless contemporary with nascent Christianity in Roman society. From the point Christianity ascended to a controlling majority in the 4th Century CE, anti-gay laws became pronounced.

I recognize that reliable accounts on this issue are somewhat fraught, owing to the fact that scribal transmission of what can be characterized as 'historical texts' was firmly in the hands of Catholic clerics. The possibility/probability that later homophobic opinions were interpolated back into earlier accounts is strong.

[quote]It only became antigay because they borrowed homophobia from Islam.

Most everything 'Islam' was borrowed from Judaism and Christianity (including gnostic sects).

But early Islam was not particularly homophobic (scroll down to the article entry for the 8th Century, where it's noted that "c. 750 – With the creation of the Abbasid Caliphate, Muslim poets emerge describing homoeroticism and beautiful youths, such as Persian-Arab poet Abu Nuwas."

Approaching and passing the first millennium, all three of the Abrahamic religions seem to have cultivated organized homophobia together, borrowing from each other. But Christianity, with its bodies of canon law, led out in this regard.

Turn straight? The French have always been demented perverts and they still are.

R28 as a gnostic I can tell you that the foundations of gnostic faith predates Christianity. Christianity , being the frankestein religion that it is, corrupted gnostic teachings and mixed it with judeochristian mythology and values when in fact Gnosticism had its origin in Greece, such as the epicureans and many other philosophers that opposed the teaching of the stoics. Hence the reason why the real teaching of genuine gnostism opposed stoicism and was pro homosexuality. it was indeed a faith developed by homosexuals for homosexuals, until the straights took over it.

mm sunthin' about a Frenchie

French have huge uncut cocks too.

r19, I did too.

The flower of their bodies...Mary!

The flower of their bodies...Mary!

With my limited understanding of the cultures I believe sex between men in Greece was seen more as a rite of passage with the older instructing the younger. It was an introduction into society and a way to move up socially. Although I am sure all dynamics of sex occurred between men, this was the accepted structure. The same was true in Roman society with the accepted role of the older being the top. It was looked down upon if an older man “played the role of the woman.” I think this Greek writer was just shocked that no such structure existed with the Gauls and that they were just horny and slutty about it.

French cock isn't notably large or small. Just the normal range. The Big Cock Belt runs down from Scotland across the sea to Benelux and then up across Northern Germany (only northern), Poland, and the Baltics.

I haven't found a higher than expected number of huge cocks in Sweden and Finland. Never fucked around Norway.

I don't know r36, France is pretty hight up on the list. And I've never been with a "small" Frenchman.

The sizes are self reported. French men are vain and they are going to exaggerate.

[quote] I've never been with a "small" Frenchman

Well, Alain Delon didn't meet my expectations.

[quote] And the most astonishing thing of all is that they feel no concern for their proper dignity, but prostitute to others without a qualm the flower of their bodies; nor do they consider this a disgraceful thing to do, but rather when anyone of them is thus approached and refuses the favour offered him, this they consider an act of dishonour.

So—a gay bathhouse?

[quote] The Big Cock Belt runs down from Scotland across the sea to Benelux and then up across Northern Germany (only northern), Poland, and the Baltics.

The "Big Cock Belt??"

That's a new one.

Catamite AKA Butt Boy

^^literally "boy"

R19, R32, neither of you ever watched 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐋𝐚𝐬𝐭 𝐨𝐟 𝐒𝐡𝐞𝐢𝐥𝐚 (1973)?

𝐀𝐧𝐭𝐡𝐨𝐧𝐲: (reading aloud from Clinton's brochure)

"Travelers engulf from many lands to the site of this former 11th century refuge of perverts, onanists, catamites and other riffraff of the day."

𝐂𝐡𝐫𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐞: We have just fifteen minutes. Just enough time for me to get dressed as a catamite, if I knew what it was.

𝐀𝐧𝐭𝐡𝐨𝐧𝐲: Right.

Fun fact: In one of the two skeins of Davidic narrative in 1 Samuel, David is depicted as having served as a catamite in the court of King Saul (16:14-23).

I had to google what you wrote R45, and that scripture says no such thing:

[quote] David in Saul’s Service

14 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him.

15 Saul’s attendants said to him, “See, an evil spirit from God is tormenting you.

16 Let our lord command his servants here to search for someone who can play the lyre. He will play when the evil spirit from God comes on you, and you will feel better.”

17 So Saul said to his attendants, “Find someone who plays well and bring him to me.”

18 One of the servants answered, “I have seen a son of Jesse of Bethlehem who knows how to play the lyre. He is a brave man and a warrior. He speaks well and is a fine-looking man. And the LORD is with him.”

19 Then Saul sent messengers to Jesse and said, “Send me your son David, who is with the sheep.”

20 So Jesse took a donkey loaded with bread, a skin of wine and a young goat and sent them with his son David to Saul.

21 David came to Saul and entered his service. Saul liked him very much, and David became one of his armor-bearers.

22 Then Saul sent word to Jesse, saying, “Allow David to remain in my service, for I am pleased with him.”

23 Whenever the spirit from God came on Saul, David would take up his lyre and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better, and the evil spirit would leave him.

[quote] David is depicted as having served as a catamite in the court of King Saul

No wonder he refused to bottom.

Bottoming was very messy in those days.

[quote] Bottoming was very messy in those days.

Yeah, hygiene wasn't very good back then, so not only did no one douche, but they all probably smelled like ass and b.o., too!

r49 if we could take a time machine back to those days, we would be overwhelmed by how filthy, smelly and gross people were.

Romans practiced excellent hygiene. Bathhouses were free to everyone.

The bath houses did not have running water in Roman times. People were dying of gangrene like crazy

The Roman's had aqueducts which brought water to their cities. Some of them are still in use today.

One of them.

Ancient Romans had running water all day and night. The Romans had a complex plumbing system that included aqueducts, pipes, and fountains that provided water to the city.

We all know that r55. But outside the cities and in the rest of Europe the barbarians were dirty ass hos.

It wasn’t complex plumbing. It was basic water supply and gravity.

And lead pipes doll. Don't forget the lead pipes R57. Rome was the original Flint, Michiigan.

Stinky stanky taints and holes.

[quote] But outside the cities and in the rest of Europe the barbarians were dirty ass hos.

Not to mention that most of Europe was brutally cold, which lends itself even LESS to taking a bath.

I don't even want to think about how nasty these people smelled.

The families would take baths with the same bathwater for each person. Blech.

Japan also had a very strong bathing culture, as well.

Japanese were always about cleanliness, from taking off your footwear before entering a house, to rinsing off before you bathe.

Lucky for them, Japan has a ton of volcanic hot springs, which actually produced the bathing culture, which still thrives today.

The "onsen" hot spring baths also had that boiling hot water, so people could bathe in the wintertime, as well.

Middle Easterners also had a strong bathing culture, which produced steam baths and exfoliation afterwards, using a towel and cold water.

And of course, Finnish people have their saunas, but I don't know if that qualifies as "taking a bath."

And the bidets! Don’t forget the bidets R52

[quote]R46: that scripture says no such thing:

You're not understanding what the passage actually means. (Nor, I suspect, did you understand what *I* said. I didn't say that 'the bible called David a catamite;' I said that the passage depicted David as a catamite in the court of King Saul.)

Saul was depicted as requesting a pretty boy to come play the lyre for him, to serve as his cupbearer. In 𝐒𝐩𝐚𝐫𝐭𝐚𝐜𝐮𝐬 (1960), there's a line: "What position have we, I wonder, for a boy of such varied gifts? You shall be my body servant. Instruct him." In ancient cultures, the young males who served in this capacity were also intimate sexual partners - think of the myth of Ganymede. The analogy isn't far-fetched, since these passages in Jewish scripture were based upon the Greek classics.

My emphasis on the word 'depiction' is reflective of the fact that these aren't real people - they're literary characters.

As the story of David is developed, there's a twist - Saul's son Jonathan becomes enamored of David, and takes him for himself. Intimacy ensues, Saul is enraged, and tries to kill David.

Cupbearer, music-player, armor-bearer - all of these roles are essentially the same, tropes denoting a sexual partner of lower social status. In the Middle Ages, knights took squires. Masters took apprentices. Even today, Congressmen have pages. 'It goes on, Judah - it goes on.'

It's all about childish control. Just live your life to the best of your abilities and let go. Hebrews are no better than X person

R65/turtleneck, are you responding to me?

Stupid Christians don't seem to realize there is gay sex all over the Bible, because ancient societies did not see the Bible as stories for children.

Yeah, there were no lakes, rivers or seas to jump into to get rid of funk. People would look at the lovely water but never use it.

They'd jump into a river but it wouldn't get rid of the funk. Most of them huddled in their huts and didn't bathe regularly.

[quote]Stupid Christians don't seem to realize there is gay sex all over the Bible, because ancient societies did not see the Bible as stories for children.

Your ignorance is appalling. Don't ever post again.

Poisoned Dragon, your Texas white trash roots are showing.

[quote] In 𝐒𝐩𝐚𝐫𝐭𝐚𝐜𝐮𝐬 (1960), there's a line:

Bless your heart for getting your information of the classical world from a piece of shit movie from ages ago.

Too bad they didn't have Lume in those times. I could've made a fortune!

^^Rub the Lume on your underarms while looking in the mirror in a sensual manner. Don't forget to purse your lips. If you want to explore your asshole, that's fine. Just keep one hand on the Loom, massaging your underarms.

Aren't you glad you paid $29.99?

[quote] Turn straight? The French have always been demented perverts and they still are.

You’re right. There were many who were always straight demented perverts.

Your ignorance is appalling R70, and I'll wager you never read the bible.

r76 the Bible is a fairy tale written hundreds of years after the supposed events. Stick two fingers in your ass while you jerk off and go to fucking bed.

It is not a fairy tale (too boring for that). It was set down for a priestly caste when most people were illiterate. It was not for public consumption, let alone for children, not that children were sheltered the same way back then.

I think that many of you have an excessively positive view of pre-Judeo Christian Europe. Attitudes toward homosexuality varied enormously from culture to culture, and tolerance levels shifted many times throughout history. Most Germanic peoples engaged in same sex practices, but they are said to have been extremely hostile towards men who took a passive role, and Tacitus explains in 'De origine et situ Germanorum' that anyone who had been accused of being a 'bottom' was drowned in bogs (many of the corpses resulting from this practice have been found in Northern Germany and Denmark). A hundred years later, though, Sextus Empiricus writes that same sex activity is extremely common among Germanic tribes and nobody considers it shameful at all. Furthermore, the Suebi Herulian tribes in Central Europe were known to practice warrior-based homosexuality, which was even consecrated in their religion.

In most Ancient Greek cultures, same sex relationships among adult men were seen as something very shameful, but we all know about pederasty, which frequently included sex, even if most Greeks were extremely hypocritical about it. Sex with adult slaves, though, wasn't considered something shameful, as slaves were to be 'used' howsoever their master chose to do so. Also, there was A LOT of both male and female prostitution, and the clients were invariably men. However, Greeks were also hostile to those who adopted a passive role and regarded them with extreme contempt - which is why slaves and male prostitutes were expected to fulfill this role.

Romans were different in the sense that pederasty was uncommon and seen as a foreign practice, but male prostitution and sex with male slaves was also very common. Romans showed varying degrees of tolerance, but being the passive partner was seen as something extremely shameful. In fact, Caesar's enemies would often attack him by saying that he enjoyed being penetrated and Caligula's enemies tried to destroy his reputation by spreading rumours about how he allegedly enjoyed prostituting himself in disguise, as 'a female'. Roman people also saw male rape of war prisoners as a form of humiliation and a sign of complete subjugation, and this reinforced the view that being the passive partner during sex was only suitable for those whose inferiority was beyond any doubt. By the way, this is a very similar view to that of Vikings, who also raped war prisoners and male slaves, and saw male prostitution as something very immoral, even if this didn't prevent them from often having dalliances with male prostitutes.

Middle Eastern cultures have also been super hypocritical about same sex activity among men, but followers of Judaism were particularly hostile to it because male-on-male sex was commonly practiced by their Babylonian oppressors and the enemy tribes around them. So yes, it would be worth noticing that things are not quite as black and white as some of you are presenting them.

You forgot centuries of lying historians claiming passivity was viewed negatively, but that isn't necessarily true. Actually the Jews would all have been killed had they not proved useful as sex slaves.

OP- Who cares about the ancient French/Gauls. The Greeks were a lot of fun in ancient times- All of the athletes were COMPLETELY naked for the Olympic games - except for the chariot races.

[quote]R71: Poisoned Dragon, your Texas white trash roots are showing.

An amusing effort. You've failed to offend me, though. Out of curiosity, in what way are my 'Texas white trash roots supposedly showing'?

[quote]R72: Bless your heart for getting your information of the classical world from a piece of shit movie from ages ago.

Citing the scene as a handy example of what I was talking about isn't 'getting my information of the classical world' from it.

You're lamely trying to shade the film by pointing out it's "from ages ago," apparently without realizing that "the classical world" was from much longer ago than that.

Lots of bitchy comments from you (R14, R48, R50, R56, R59, R69, R70, R71, R72, R74, R77), but you haven't contributed a single thing to the subject of the thread. Look, if you're trying to claim that there's no catamites or gay sex in the bible, post a source. If you're not, then sit down and STFU. (Yeah, I get who you are - you're 'Death Star', the crying Bootsie-Gumdrop sock from the thread where the authenticated user account of that name accidentally revealed himself - the one that has chased me around for three years carrying on about my supposed mental illness. And all because you're butthurt over losing an argument about the existence of Jesus.)

Some interesting observations regarding your output on this thread - you're strafing with different sock accounts, talking to yourself (the exchanges about stench and Lume). A trace of African American Vernacular English (AAVE) creeping in at R56, R59, and R69 - perhaps you've been Teacaking with other accounts and it's bled across into this one.

I think my grandma had a 1962 Ford Catamite - it was hard to start.

Catamite is such a distinguished term for a pass-around party bottom.

Poisoned Dragon you just need to be put down.

[quote]Lots of bitchy comments from you ([R14], [R48], [R50], [R56], [R59], [R69], [R70], [R71], [R72], [R74], [R77]), but you haven't contributed a single thing to the subject of the thread.

Darling, we're talking about how barbarians didn't wash their asses or anything else. You clearly have a LOT of time on your hands and need to get a life.

[quote]Some interesting observations regarding your output on this thread - you're strafing with different sock accounts, talking to yourself (the exchanges about stench and Lume). A trace of African American Vernacular English (AAVE) creeping in at [R56], [R59], and [R69] - perhaps you've been Teacaking with other accounts and it's bled across into this one.

You're a bit short of winning the Datalounge Nancy Drew Award, but nice try. Better luck next time, freak!

What a mess of a thread. So many depressives. Get outside and get the stink blowed off ya, losers. And don't come back till you're witty and erudite. This is the DATALOUNGE.

[quote]What a mess of a thread. So many depressives. Get outside and get the stink blowed off ya, losers. And don't come back till you're witty and erudite. This is the DATALOUNGE.

There are several posters (Poisoned Dragon among them) who are are hate filled, insane monsters and lonely, obsessive shut-ins no one wants to interact with. Most of them probably have legit mental illness.

I think it's a lot of borderlines on here who had hard closeted upbringings (In the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s) and thus have out of control triggered tempers that they make no effort to reign in. Some of them are truly the worst humanity has to offer and most of these old bitchy queens need to put down, honestly.

I always find pousondragon posts to be quite interesting and informative.

Except for these ones, I agree r90.

[quote]R85: Poisoned Dragon you just need to be put down.

I'm not the one following you around, heckling you and calling for your death, which is something you've been doing to me for three years. And what is it about a single callout post (R82) that requires so many responses from you (R85, R86, R87, R89), plus two sock accounts (R88 and R91) which are also obviously you?

[quote]R86: Darling, we're talking about how barbarians didn't wash their asses or anything else.

There's that 'we' shit.

You were the only one talking about that. You and a couple of socks do not constitute a plurality.

Your post at R89 is entirely projective. It takes real issues to follow around a poster for three years. Several others have looked at your posting history and remarked on your obsession.

[quote]I wish PoisonedDragon would take the gas pipe. He ruins interesting threads.

[quote]^^oh just STFU you mentally ill freak

[quote]I'm as liberal as can be but even I want to put a firecracker up PoisonedDragons ass and blow his body parts to oblivion. JFC what an exhausting cunt.

[quote]The only good thing I can say about Poisoned Dragon is that he primarily restricts himself to the religious threads and doesn't infect others. He is a sad, sad case of a life gone by. Terrible. It's over for him.

[quote]JFC can somebody crucify Poisoned Dragon?

[quote]^^ no seriously, just die.

[quote]You paranoid fucking lunatic and your sock obsession.

[quote]The sock obsession is nuts. You're nuts. Poisoned Dragon is the kind of eldergay a lot of younger gays are terrified of becoming.

[quote]^^sad old lonely crazy queen

[quote]Don't try to argue with PoisonedDragon. He's a batshit nut. He isn't even American.

[quote]^^STFU you fucking nutbag. I only have one account, and couldn't give a rat's ass about your mental illness.

[quote]JFC r84 you need to breathe and take your meds and go outside.

[quote]Just kill yourself PD

[quote]PoisendDragon SUCK MY 7.5" Not that you'll never will

[quote]No really Poisened Dragron You're a sad piece of lonely shit Disability You were born in the early 60s? Old AF

[quote]You were born in the early 60s, right?

[quote]Poisened Dragon do you have a complexion like Matt Bomer?

[quote]You piec of shit autistic fuck you really should have been aborted.

[quote]^^ just fucking kill yourself you fucking freak.

[quote]PD your autism is astounding.

[quote]PD is a mentally ill nutcase.

[quote]PD is a seriously disturbed fucking loser of an individual.

All of this is unprovoked in thread after thread. You're obsessed.

And you were caught back in April when you forgot and used the authenticated Bootsie-Gumdrop account to post one of the attacks.

I love the DL Hall monitors who have the time on their hands to trolldar people and cut and paste a bunch of quotes in an attempt to "shame" those posters. Such fucking losers.

I only have one account but keep on believing there are tons of sock puppets you freak.

I thought we were discussing ancient history?? Guess not.

[quote]R95: I thought we were discussing ancient history?? Guess not.—How fucking disappointing

I was discussing it at R25, R45, and R64, until R71/R72, unprovoked, decided to pick a fight.

On this thread, you're R18, R68, R91, R95.

Your complaint is ironic, since you're one of the contributors to the derailment; R68 assisting the Bootsie sock at R69, and then claiming at R91 that I'd made no contributions here.

Correction: "I was discussing it at R27, R45, and R64,

^^pathetic loser. Go trolldar up your ass.

You sad, lonely man.

Je ne sais pas de quoi tu parles.

^^Gross.

And another interesting thread shot to hell.

R99 Que lindo!!!!!! I fell in love , that hairy chest!!!