BREAKING NEWS: DataLounger MURDERED all of his siblings!

Living in mom's basement is more incel than DLer.

Hard-core.

He needs help. Clearly he is not mentally capable to stand a trial.

I guess he didn't want to negotiate buying the house from his siblings for himself. He should have had plenty in his accounts if he lived with mommy and never paid rent.

Maybe they should have had him formally evicted. Tell the state he's a danger to himself and others. Which is obviously true.

⬆️ He killed himself as victim #5

Well, I guess we now know who Defacto was.

What I am left wondering is, what is the value of the house and what is one-forth of that?

This property should be featured on a future Tasteful Friends real estate post.

The guy holding the pic of the rifle looks like my grandfather.

the mother's insistence to let him live with her until she was 95 ended up getting her kids killed.

r8 The estimated value of the house (pre-shooting spree) was $900K. I am curious what it will end up selling for now that it's a mass murder house.

My mom’s estate was quite substantial, and it was supposed to be divided evenly among the four of us after she passed. It was shocking to watch my siblings squabble over trivial amounts of money - things like, “Mom was paying your cell phone bill for the last year, so you need to reimburse the estate!” The pettiness was unbelievable. To this day, two of my siblings still don’t speak to each other, and it’s been 13 years. The way money can come between people is just mind-boggling.

this is one way that learned helplessness can play out, a backporch massacre

He was a hoarder facing the prospect of moving, and the thought of parting with his belongings probably set him off. If you’ve ever seen “Hoarders,” you probably heard the psychologists warn families and friends that clearing out a hoard must be done with great care. The attachment some hoarders have to their possessions is so intense that losing them has, in some cases, led to suicide. I haven’t watched the show enough to know if the people being helped ever lash out at those assisting them, but it certainly seems plausible. For some, the leap from anger to violence isn’t far at all.

So, he was their mother’s caregiver, we’re led to believe? And then, just days after they laid her to rest, they’re already meeting with a real estate agent. Meanwhile, there’s a housing crisis going on, and they were about to kick him out without any plan. I mean, are we really surprised it ended up like this?

Just to be clear, this isn’t me endorsing what he did.

A lucky break for whichever niece or nephew wasn’t present that day!

I was just about to post what R16 said

The mother should have left the house to the incel/autistic/hoarder-what-have-you son.

R15. The Hoarders lash out all the time.

fambly means nuthin nowadays

"Price recently cut" - Zillow

“HATECHU!”

There should be a name for the kind of "grief psychosis" that occurs when someone dies. You see an unimaginable side of people you've known all your life.

First saw it in the eyes of my uncle when my great-grandfather died.

Years after my mother's death, my nephew mentioned the phenom to me. I pressed him to elaborate. He shared his thoughts on how predatory my siblings seemed, but for me, the polite kid just said, "I don't know, just different".

He was lazy. Why were the hedges untrimmed?

What happened to the realtor?

It appears the siblings were eager to sell the home immediately after the mothers death with no consideration for the son who still lived there. He was obviously struggling with the loss fo his mother and to be followed up with possibly being homeless. They should have waited a few months for things to settle before even bringing up selling the property.

It’s possible that he had special needs, and the disruption of his comfort zone might have been a tipping point. I’ve seen something similar with a relative who lived in the same apartment for over 45 years. When the building was sold and demolished to make way for luxury condos, she was relocated to a senior living facility. After that, her mental health declined rapidly. Her hair even turned white soon after the move. She had to learn new bus routes and establish a whole new routine, which was incredibly challenging. Angry outbursts became a regular thing for her. Change can be really destabilizing for some people, especially when it disrupts a long-established sense of security.

R25 “I will sell this house today.”

He was going to commit suicide anyway. Why not take the assholes with him?

[quote]They should have waited a few months for things to settle before even bringing up selling the property.

Fuck that. He was crazy as a shithouse rat and clearly he didn't need a few months to grieve before hatching his plot to kill the lot of his siblings. The longer he stayed there after the mother's death, occupying the jointly owned house, the more problem I would anticipate in priding him out of there.

I don't blame the siblings. The mother was 95 fucking years old. What's an appropriate time for them to wait on their loopy brother to gather his wits (wits u gathered for years, it would seem)? I don't doubt that some of the siblings might have taken a "the sooner the better" approach to their to getting their weirdo brother out on his own and not the tenant throwing a hoarded wrench into the works of settling the estate.

Who knows what discussions the siblings had or didn't have with the fucker. Maybe they offered solutions and means to help him and he didn't respond well. Or maybe they didn't. Soon to have his pockets increased by a couple hundred thousand $, I suspect the siblings hatched some not unreasonable plan to get him out of there quickly to facilitate a sale. There's nothing wrong with that. There's no grieving period for houses for their deceased owners, and better to settle things quickly in most cases to avoid excess maintenance, insurance risk, tax, and other expenses.

If I had a wacky sibling who sat around like a piece of dead meat admiring his tools, grumbling to his neighbors, and letting his 95 year old.mommy look after him, I'd want to get him relocated and the house sold ASAP not to have the risk of the brother doing something wild. Too bad the nutcase brother was thinking ahead of his siblings in how to slaughter them.

No sympathy for the nutcase.

R29 I can *maybe* see an argument for the siblings, but his 30-year-old niece? That’s extreme.

On the bright side, he'll have a forever home.

It's going to be prison, but it won't be the street.

So enjoy, I guess.

Team Basement Dweller. How terrifying it must’ve been for him to suddenly have to live on his own. He obviously had mental issues. It seems cruel they were going to upend his entire life. Sorry not sorry. I don’t blame him for losing it.

Has Gerg commented yet?

[quote] No sympathy for the nutcase. If I had a wacky sibling who sat around like a piece of dead meat admiring his tools, grumbling to his neighbors, and letting his 95 year old.mommy look after him, I'd want to get him relocated and the house sold ASAP not to have the risk of the brother doing something wild.

He DID something wild, what are you on about? If I thought for one minute I had a nutcase brother taking care of my mother why would I wait until she dies and then march in with my Starbucks and discuss how we are kicking him out?

Obviously he had some problems. I also understand that the other siblings told him they weren't sharing the inheritance with him. Seriously this family didn't know him well enough that they thought they could just kick him out without any resources and everything would be fine?

Told you I was hardcore!

The Realtor told him it was still 6%. They fad it coming.

R36 That’s why I am on his side. OBVIOUSLY not murder, but they were cruel. They were going to mess his whole life up. He probably felt cozy and safe in his miserable little world,but it was his miserable little world. He likely wouldn’t know how to take care of himself. He was scared out of his mind.

Depends which story we are reading, I guess. I heard one of the subs offered to let him live with them, also heard his portion of the inheritance would have been enough to let him get his own apt.

My brothers and sister and I are in the process of selling my mother's house. We are all crazy but none of us lived with her so I assume no one is sitting down at her house with a shotgun.

Meeting with the realtor right after the funeral does seem a bit much to me.

His real name is Norman and he lived with his mummified dead mother in that house for many years.

I noticed the nypost kept the comments off for this incident.

Newsweek article with photos.

The females were postmenopausal so it's no great loss.

Mom and Dad probably paid all of 10gs back in the day to purchase that shack.

They were going to get a million dollars for a shitty little home in the shitty little suburbs.

Dude was not going to homeless but he would have to move!

I wonder if he knew Milton Moorehead.

"Grisly" photos from inside the house. Fuck, there's still ice in the Starbucks coffee.

He had to stop and reload mid shooting spree. Must have been terrifying for whoever was left.

Lizzie Borden was a rank amateur …

The latest article has quotes from a neighbor who had been invited over to 'celebrate' one of the sibling's birthdays. So they were literally having a party less than a week after their mother's death:

A balloon could be seen floating in the corner of the room — and a neighbor, who gave her name as Randi, said the family intended to celebrate victim Tina Hammond’s birthday on Sunday.

The neighbor said she was very good friends with the 64-year-old Tina, who showed up at her mom’s house with her daughter, 30-year-old Victoria Hammond.

“I got to know her because I helped her mom, she was elderly and couldn’t take care of herself, we became best friends,” Randi said, describing Tina, who lived with her daughter in East Patchogue, as “a good person and always upbeat.”

The neighbor was headed over to the house to celebrate, too, but something told her to wait just a little bit — so she went to get food for the party instead.

The decision may have saved her life.

R35: You copy a long section of my text but not the following short sentence in which i agree with your point.

I wouldn't want to have to divide an inheritance with you.

May have?

Stop & Shop Saves Lives!

The more you know 💫

R50 There’s always some dumpy frau who was “best friends” with one of the victims. Reality = they met twice.

I guarantee this was the “ungrateful niece” troll. I enjoyed his stories and completely understand how it came to this. He had nowhere to go. He was at the end of the line. I wouldn't have done it, but I understand. His niece was a whore and his sister was a cunt. And now the whole gang is dead.

Tangent: let's say you are house/apartment hunting for your next home. You find something that seems good and you're surprised few others want it. Then you find out it was the site of a horrible family murder, not so long ago.

What % below market would the price have to drop, before you said Yes and bought it with intent to live there?

I don't know if I could. I'm a fretful sleeper with an overactive imagination as it is. But maybe if it was 1/3 off...

[quote]The estimated value of the house (pre-shooting spree) was $900K. I am curious what it will end up selling for now that it's a mass murder house.

It'll sell for a discounted sum, and the new owners will tear the entire place down. Quite the pity considering how much work we did in its basement.

This seems more like a NY Post story.

I love the part of that Post where the neighbor “best friend” talks about stopping to get food, narrowly missing being offed by the shooter. “There is a God,” she says. So, one that decided to save YOU, but not the other four people?

Of course he had somewhere to go once the house was sold and the inheritance divided..HE HAD OTHER OPTIONS AVAILABLE.

[quote]So, he was their mother’s caregiver, we’re led to believe? And then, just days after they laid her to rest, they’re already meeting with a real estate agent. Meanwhile, there’s a housing crisis going on, and they were about to kick him out without any plan. I mean, are we really surprised it ended up like this?

I'm not sure he was the mother's caregiver. (It sounds more like she needed to take care of *him*, given that he was a hoarder who never moved out as an adult.) What I'm not getting is how the kids could do literally *anything* prior to their mother's estate going through probate.

OTOH I'm also not getting why the mom apparently didn't make any special arrangements in her will for her son's continued well-being. He's obviously mentally ill and needed *someone* to take care of him – all the more so given his family of jackals that called in a realtor before their mom's corpse was cold. Most of all, I'm not getting why his siblings acted in such a flat-out cruel fashion. I don't get along with several of my own, but I sure as fuck wouldn't shove them out onto the street after our parent passed away.

The siblings were mighty hasty in wanting to sell the home and boot the brother so soon after mom's death. I suspect at least one of them needed the money. Perhaps they didn't prepare the brother well but those situations are rife with stress and difficulty. Awful things happen when inheritances loom and siblings are in crisis. I have a friend who sued a brother for mishandling the family trust, trying to nab it all for himself. My friend won the case but the bad sibling's actions forever estranged the family.

My partner (sole trustee) had to sell his mother's home in order to keep her in a decent quality elder care home. His younger, irresponsible fuckup brother was living in her house, rent free, just utilities etc., He could see his mom's savings dwindling away. Senior care homes are expensive.

He gave his brother one year's notice to leave and I got him on all kinds of low-income housing lists and about six months in he found a home. Their mom lived long enough to leave behind some cash from the sale that was split between brothers. Mass murder avoided.

R56 I’d buy it and rent it.

R60 Maybe he didn’t feel this way. This was his home. He was mentally ill. They were desperate for the inheritance and didn’t give a fuck about upending this man’s entire life in just a very short time. He was likely grieving the only person he felt loved him, too.

R62, it isn't relevant whether any of the siblings needed the money. It makes no sense that they were even *able* to sell the house prior to completion of the probate process, which can take months. The estate's executor always has a huge number of items to deal with before anyone can go through the formal process of dividing a decedent's estate. (If they *had* sold the house, the executor could've readily sued to stop the sale from being completed, and would've likely succeeded.)

R30 "Fuck that. He was crazy as a shithouse rat and clearly he didn't need a few months to grieve before hatching his plot to kill the lot of his siblings. The longer he stayed there after the mother's death, occupying the jointly owned house, the more problem I would anticipate in priding him out of there. "

He was grieving and emotional unstable. The siblings taking a more tactful and slower approach on the house would have made a big difference. To me it appears they are callous about her death since they were already bringing a real estate agent just two weeks after her death. They just wanted their inheritance ASAP

The victims had a meeting with a realtor, they hadn't sold a thing!

Exactly R66 -- if you have an old, obviously un-renovated property that has been the longtime home of a very elderly woman and a hoarder(!) the first step is to get the opinion of a real estate professional for advice as to what the hell to do -- empty it all out? just market it as a tear-down? whatever.

There is a ridiculous amount of victim-blaming going on in this thread. I guess everyone else on the DL has had no problems with hostile, perhaps mentally ill siblings, and a elderly parent who doesn't listen to reason and won't do anything to better their current questionable living situation.

So does the existing insurance cover loss of value and haz mat expenses and all because it is nasty? Like, in the walls and down into the basement. Not just blood.

And for immediate cost reimbursements for recovery and disposal with travel for everyone for the cremation services and the Hawaii farewell luau memorial. We want to open the place as a haunted house this Halloween season, starting September 11. We ain't got much time to get the health permits after cleanup. And, like I said,

It's nasty.

The Post doesn't hold any punches. Caption: "The house...looked like the house of a 95-year old woman." Translation: dirty, falling apart, and decrepit.

Many families have at least one sibling who is incapable of living independently, and a parent who lacks the heart to put them in a group home or make other arrangements for their care. It's a misguided, selfish move on the parent's part that leaves their survivors in unenviable positions and is cruelest of all to the very kid they were trying to protect.

If you've had to deal with these situations yourself, you probably know that some people are beyond help. You can give them time to grieve and line up new housing for them and it's still going to end in tragedy or chaos. Because they were never in control of their sanity to begin with, their enabler parent just protected them from consequences.

The smell of the place prior to him killing his siblings: reek of fat, hoarder incel + 95 yo lady made it so it could only have been good for tearing down, even before he killed his siblings in there.

Fumigation only works so well.

It’s too bad r30 wasn’t in that rear den too.

The real tragedy is all the ice melted in their Starbucks. I completely hate when that happens.

So they got themselves a little treat as they fattened their wallets and made their brother homeless.

This is one family that needed to be annihilated.

The mother died August 19th, and the siblings were meeting with a realtor SIX DAYS later.

The 59-year-old brother had a history of mental issues, yet they were hustling him out of the only home he'd ever known just as fast as they could. What did they think might happen?

I'm also blown away that he was telling neighbors exactly what he planned to do and not one of them made any attempt to alert any authority whatsoever.

This story is nothing but a series of really, really bad decisions.

How has no one mentioned that one of the "victims" was Joanna Kearns.

I think if a neighbor told me that about his siblings, I would probably take it as just talk or bluster. I doubt I would actually report him to the police.

This is all his mother's fault. She let him live there his entire life and didn't bother to plan for him when she dies? It's very irresponsible. Who knows what mental issues he had. Plus she raised his greedy siblings ready to sell the day she died. She could have easily talked to a lawyer and family and tell them their brother needs a place to live, if they dont want to pitch in and take care of him, then he gets the house.

They needed to get over excepting a payout. Most people dont get that when a parent dies anyway. They sound like greedy little bastards. Which mom also raised.

Losing your living space can be very primal. Where will I go? What's to become of me? What about my pets, my things? Especially if you have few if any options. It's totally logical that you would have dark thoughts of hopelessness.

[quote]The mother died August 19th, and the siblings were meeting with a realtor SIX DAYS later.

Was she even in the ground yet?

Geez, talk about greedy spawn. Sounds like they deserved it.

He really said “not a cent, for any of you.”

[Quote] I'm also blown away

In a manner of speaking

There was a neighbor family that was close to my family for decades. The youngest son who was unmarried also lived in the house primarily to take care of his aging mother with various health issues. When she died, there were also 4 siblings who were inheriting the house equally. The eldest son however wanted to get 50% against the mothers wishes. The youngest son was furious that he was taking care of her for many years and the oldest son was estranged and didn't even call her, let alone visit. When she died, he refused to let her be buried in the same grave as her husband out of spite. The mother's lawyer told the eldest son that the mother's will is final, legitimate and legally binding. If he wants 50% he has to take out a lawsuit against the estate and that the likelihood of him seeing even one penny over 25% share was not only almost impossible, but his legal fees will be significant. He eventually agreed to his 25% share. Fortunately the youngest son was not desperate or emotionally unstable like Mr. DeLucia . The eldest son died less than two years later falling from a tree while pruning it.

Imagine people in war-torn areas tonight? Living in the street or a tent or a shelter. Hungry, afraid, hopeless. Count your blessings you're tucked into your over-stuffed couch, your caftan wrapped tightly around you, the A/C purring away.

[quote] The mother died August 19th, and the siblings were meeting with a realtor SIX DAYS later.

They were in town for the funeral, killing two birds with one stone.

or kill all the birds

The three siblings, ages 63, 64, and 69, and a niece in her 30s deserve not a bit of blame.

We have little idea of the dynamic in the family, the financial and health situations, the history of relations with the mentally ill and useless murdering brother -- either with his siblings or with his mother died at 95 with this fucked up, anger-prone son as her hoarder lodger forever until death.

Cries of "the poor guy, he had no place to go, he was losing him home after losing his.mother" fall on my deaf ears. It sounds like he was a gruesome weird son sponging on his mother at age 59 and leaving all his responsibilities and future in the hands of a 95 year old.

As has been noted up-thread, the meeting with the real estate agent seems on the surface legally premature to sign a listing agreement, but not too soon to address the value and marketing for the house - whether making improvements would be beneficial, or whether better to sell as is. It seems entirely reasonable that song the three siblings there was private discussion of what would become of the youngest and useless brother who had spent his 59 years under his mother's roof and care. The value of the house and the estate would have been of interest in regard to what options could be proposed to the freak brother. All evidence suggests he would have had money enough from the estate to find a housing situation for the rest of his life. I imagine that his siblings were looking at options to propose to their now lodger/squatter brother. And why not? They're in their 60s and don't want to inherit the burden of keeping Mother's house for the crazy son for the rest of their lives knowing he could easily outlive the lot of them. Maybe one wanted to travel while he still could, another wanted to use her inheritance to help prepare her finances for impending retirement.

The crazy brother wasn't so crazy that he didn't know his free lodging and a mother looking after him were at an end. And he wasn't so crazy not to plot an efficient if gruesome and unnecessary solution to his predicament after freeloading on the mother for 59 years.

But somehow the siblings who went out in the world and had lives outside the house they were raised in are the villains? and the crazy, ever angry brother who killed 3 siblings and a niece and then himself is the innocent victim?

R10 I want to blow your grandpa.

[quote]The three siblings, ages 63, 64, and 69, and a niece in her 30s deserve not a bit of blame.

Oh PU-lease. Knowing their age, they need to be blamed MORE! They were all retirement age, they should have let go of the idea of cashing out mom's house decades ago. They are adults, they should pensions, social security, 401Ks, Roth IRA, etc.

But then I am not surprised, Boomers going to Boom. The Me Gen is still alive and taking greed to the grave.

R89 You are an idiot. Someone has to pay taxes on the home. And this deadbeat basement dweller certainly wasn’t going to be able to. Furthermore we don’t even know if mom took out a 2nd mortgage to go gambling or what not. If the piece of shit is mentally ill, I’ll take it all back. Terrible what he did to his siblings. O well Satan has a nice bedroom waiting for him.

[quote]They were all retirement age, they should have let go of the idea of cashing out mom's house decades ago. They are adults, they should pensions, social security, 401Ks, Roth IRA, etc.

R89, you're as stupid as the psycho living in his 95 year old mother's basement thinking his arrangement would somehow carry on for another 35 or 40 years.

If you think many people in their 60s in the US have pensions, they don't, only 13% of Americans have any form of pension. Two of the siblings may or may not have been on early (reduced) retirement payments from Social Security, only the eldest was a couple years into full retirement age and benefits. And other forms of retiremnet investments, many are equally available to people of any age, there's nothing to stop a 20 year old from investing in his golden eyars as heavily as he likes, in proper retirement accounts and in other long term investments, as I'm sure you do, R89, that is when you can find a bit of time away from giving your money to the poor and in need.

R91 Yea most jobs, even highly lucrative ones stopped giving pensions in the early aughts I’ve heard. It’s all 401K. Some companies still have pensions but it’s very rare.

Homeless not Lifeless could have helped. Where's Dorit when you need her?

Agree that he wouldn't have paid the property taxes. He definitely would have been evicted sooner or later. Then, he would have shot/shot at police trying to remove his fat, incel ass from dead mommy's basement.

The siblings had probably already tried to stage an intervention with him, numerous times.

Now, he'll be a back door parolee, courtesy of the tax payers.

[quote]Of course he had somewhere to go once the house was sold and the inheritance divided..HE HAD OTHER OPTIONS AVAILABLE.

Yes, but what he is quoted as saying was that the siblings wouldn't help him. Just handing someone like him money would not have got him somewhere to live: someone would have needed to negotiate his move into care of some kind and involve him in it so he didn't feel hopeless and frightened. That they wouldn't seems to have been the problem. The mother was either an idiot or a shit for not leaving something about his guardianship in her will.

This is exactly how I expect Janbot will go out. But he will attempt to take Madonna with him.

[quote]Syosset

Speaks volumes.

He doesn’t need help anymore.

As a visiting nurse, the number of old single men living with their older single (widowed or divorced) mothers was truly remarkable. Like hoarding. A lot more common than you realize.

I hate my family. Team Joseph.

Syosset? Did he know Milton Moorhead?

"The mother was either an idiot or a shit for not leaving something about his guardianship in her will."

Supporting him for FIFTY-NINE YEARS wasn't enough? Why are women ALWAYS somehow responsible for the vile actions of these despicable males? He is not a victim. He's a murderer!

R102 is a man-killer.

You know the type.

He was just waiting to find the perfect woman, who would check all of his boxes. A hottie who would love him the way he deserved and appreciate him the way mother did. A real lady, who didn't look down on his collectables and eccentricities.

Was that too much to ask of today's whores? Of modern bitches?

R102 Take your finger off the trigger frau and switch to decaf. You're a little wound up this morning.

Where does it say the man lived in the basement in that house. I mean, to be technical about this.

[quote]The crazy brother wasn't so crazy that he didn't know his free lodging and a mother looking after him were at an end. And he wasn't so crazy not to plot an efficient if gruesome and unnecessary solution to his predicament after freeloading on the mother for 59 years.

He did kill himself too you know. The fact that this solution was "unnecessary" is the whole point in guessing his state of mind. And a few days after a family member's death IS creepily soon to discuss the "value" of the house, while combining it with a celebration no less.

WE are all speculating here but you seem to think that a raised eyebrow over the behavior of the siblings means supporting the killer. Of course the victims didn't deserve it, we're discussing context. The siblings sound clueless and grossly insensitive, to their detriment.

It's not unusual for an estate to quickly summon a realtor and it doesn't mean they were motivated by greed. Anyone who has owned a house knows there are carrying costs involved that can quickly become burdensome, especially when a parent dies or is sent to assisted living and their Social Security payments either cease or go directly to the nursing home.

I wish all the murder suicide assholes would skip to step two

Do I still get the listing?

[quote]It's not unusual for an estate to quickly summon a realtor

The estate can't summon anything. If the mother died without a will (intestate) then a relation or a beneficiary has to step up as executor of the estate. If no one is appointed or agreed upon then a judge will appoint one. This would take months. If there is a will with someone named as executor it's up to that person to get a lawyer and start making an inventory of everything the deceased owns. Nothing about this entire process is quick.

[quote]Nothing about this entire process is quick.

I have no idea whether this woman had a will, but it's absolutely normal to meet with a realtor early so the family knows what repairs and improvements should or shouldn't be prioritized and has time to arrange it. That the estate-settling process can be lengthy and expensive is exactly why many families opt to get a head start on it when they're gathered for an older relative's death or burial.

R96 won 🥇 the thread

R112 If you say so. When our mother died I can't imagine calling in a Realtor a few days later, especially if I didn't live with her but my sibling did. There hasn't even been time for a funeral for God's sake.

Before you hire a Real Estate appraiser (not just some random Realtor) to provide a house valuation for probate you must do some significant preparation. An appraiser is an unbiased party who would not be someone socializing at a party of the deceased relatives.

[quote]Why are women ALWAYS somehow responsible for the vile actions of these despicable males?

They're not, but thanks for revealing your inner misogynist for us all to see.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you cunts are being so absurdly judgmental, despite knowing next to nothing about the details of the case, but still. The hoarder son clearly had mental health issues, but how are you people *entirely* missing that his mother almost certainly did as well? He was likely subjected to 40 years of abuse from his heartless family, but OTOH we don't know why his mother didn't push for him to get his own place (and life).

He clearly had undiagnosed mental illness, considering how extreme it is to murder your entire family over housing, but that raises the question of *why* he seemingly went undiagnosed his entire life. His mother may have been in significant decline in recent years, but his son obviously lived there his entire life – so why the fuck didn't she at least send him to a therapist when he finished high school? (preferably a psychologist who can prescribe meds) Being agitated over losing one's home is one thing, but if he'd been on something like thorazine, his agitation could've been prevented from blowing up into a homicidal impulse.

Finally, I typically make a point of avoiding victim-blaming, but what kind of EPIC assholes plot to oust their own brother from his home, while offering ZERO help in terms of finding a new place to live? I don't get along with most of my own siblings, but I'd never want to see any of them quite literally living on the street. (That plus this is the worst time ever to be homeless in the NYC area, given its still-ongoing problems with migrants bussed from Texas.)

R96 Madonna almost died of fucking sepsis last year. Janet, Janbot, Katherine, Tito and Latoya will all outlive her.

R30 your sympathy ain’t worth a nickel.

[quote]I suspect the siblings hatched some not unreasonable plan to get him out of there quickly to facilitate a sale. There's nothing wrong with that.

Depends on what is meant by "quickly." In some states, he's entitled to stay up to 60 days from the written notice, which only sounds reasonable to people who have never had to suddenly pack years of detritus while grieving, find affordable, suitable housing and affordable movers, all while waiting on proceeds from a sale that hasn't happened yet. To him, it was probably an overwhelming task in such a short amount of time.

Absolutely terrifying

Unless they were planning on abandoning him, they would have had to support their crazy sibling even after he spent his money on a studio apartment. It would have been easier for everyone if they had just let him live there.

I agree with r89. There's something grubby about a group of senior citizens evicting their sibling for a 200k payout.

One of his siblings worked as a cashier, per an article about the case. It's odd to speculate more about the finances and motives of the murdered siblings than those of their killer.

Another wrong Island incident

It's quite shabby to evict that brother so quickly. It should have been done kindly and slowly. Well they fucked with him and found out.

[quote]Yea most jobs, even highly lucrative ones stopped giving pensions in the early aughts I’ve heard

That's what I used to think, but I know a lot of Boomers who just retired with pensions. Nurses, Doctors, Government, Forestry etc.

The mother had bern dead for 2 weeks - that’s plenty of time for a funeral / burial and to begin to get on with things. Less than a month after my 88 year old dad died my mom had already cleared out all his clothes and donated them to charity. Some people feel better channeling grief into activity rather than sitting around for weeks on end.

The coverage i’ve read the states the siblings were going to split the estate equally, and there was no timeline given - just an initial meeting with a realtor. So the idea that they were forcing him out immediately and with no help at all seems to be the delusion of the mentally ill brother and / or the assumptions of victim blaming Dataloungers.

BS r127, have you ever met a Realtor? Those guys are like sharks smelling blood in the water and they probably were contacting the siblings before the body was in the ground telling them how "important" it is that they get a move on selling that house and kicking the brother out on the curb. Which mean the rest of us have to pay for his state care for the rest of his life. Thankfully he resolved that. Too bad the Realtor wasn't there.

Homicide / suicide

R128 - that could be true, or the family could have sought the advice. on their own. Again, "kick brother to the curb" is your own projection on the situation; as others have pointed out, based on the fact that the brother never lived on his own he probably would not have been able to successfully managed the house and pay the taxes if the sibs had let him just stay. And perhaps the other siblings had been contributing over the years to keep both momma and the hoarder living in the style they had become accustomed to.

Nobody knows the inner working of this family, but it is not unusual for houses to be sold after an elderly parent dies, and if you have a 60 year old brother who has never left the nest, there most have likely had been years of discussions (and arguments) about what would happen when momma was finally out of the picture.

^^ my on the fly revisions are sloppy, but to think anyone other than shotgun wielding brother was seriously in the wrong here is, frankly, nuts.

I've been in this situation. I was living with my mother when she died. (Father predeceased mother.) I was the one who took care of her in the last months of her life (she had cancer).

My mom wasn't a hoarder, but was a packrat. I had just finished a temp job (was unemployed). I was the executor of her estate.

I cleaned up her packrat nest. Got all of her financial stuff in order.

One of my siblings (a sister) decided she wanted to buy the house and wanted me out ASAP. This happened right after I had cleaned out the packrat nest.

I realize Sis had a right to want me out ASAP. I had job skills and could reenter the job market. But it felt cruel and I did feel like a cornered animal. That's the only way I could describe the feeling.

This Long Island guy: he was a hoarder and that doubled his stress. He wasn't just being pressured to move; his hoard was in jeopardy.

It's obvious, just by their physical appearances, that this family was disconnected from him.

Even if they had given him a year to get his shit together, he was going to be angry and resentful.

The siblings were tone-deaf to show up days after Mom died, holding Starbucks drinks, and wanting to discuss the sale of the house.

He could have taken the 250 grand and relocated to another part of the country, paying cash for a small condo. Not easy but less drama than this bs.

The other freak killed his ex-wife and left his teen an orphan.

I could have seen myself in the guy's shoes. I was the youngest son. My mother had been a widow for years while I grew up and went to school. Anything that took me out of the house to go out with friends was frowned up. I was supposed to stay home and keep her company. TBF, I went out ALL the time. At 24 I had the opportunity for a job that took me halfway across the country. In the end she didn't like it but she understood the need to get away and get a life. She moved in with my sister and her husband five years later. She cared for her and I asked my sister if there was anything I owed her financially. She said nope, all good. We never fought over anything concerning money.

R134 - your mom wanted you to stay but you wisely decided to go live your own life. That is nothing like this rage-filled freeloader who most likely took advantage of a weak willed mother for decades.

[quote] That is nothing like this rage-filled freeloader who most likely took advantage of a weak willed mother for decades.

And why did the siblings allow this? My guess is they were wary of the guy but he was in fact attending to the mother which left them off the hook. They were all waiting for her to die and cash in, except for the angry brother.

Again, there was no need to invite a Realtor AT ALL. You can start probate, which has a long waiting period where the brother could have stayed in the house. You call it victim blaming. I call it "don't let this happen to you!"

R136 - Allow? Excuse me? (As we say in Syosset.) Perhaps you come from a very functional WASP family, but trust me -- Long Island Italians (I am one) often (usually) have very volatile family dynamics with plenty of fights and feuds over the most ridiculously trivial circumstances, and "nobody listens to nobody." Also, Italian mothers in those kinds of families generally are the ones who (insist on) taking care of everyone, not matter how old they get - either out of kindness, inertia or guilt.

If you look at the pics of the hoarder, the house, the mother and the other siblings they are all right out of Bad Ethnic Playhouse central casting. I'm making a fair amount of assumptions, but if these folks don't line up almost entirely with the well established stereotypes that I'm VERY familiar with, I'll eat my Yankee hat.

R137 So as luck would have it, this volatile brother of a volatile family in a volatile situation got extremely volatile.

It only takes one volitive crazy sibling to make things holy hell for all the more reasonably stable family members. I’ll wager Baby Joey, in his 59 years on earth, never cooked one meal for himself or lifted a finger around the house.

If anybody helped out the mother as she declined it was dead sister & niece who lived nearby. The older brother was a fireman - so likely a popular jock growing up. Misfit Joey idolized him as a young boy but then resented / hated him from about 13 on, and they probably couldn’t be in the same room for a few hours without some kind of argument.

The mother protected Joey because he was “different” but the idea of getting him some kind of psychological help when it still may have done some good was completely alien to the time, place and culture these people come from - “Therapy? Who are you, Woody Allen?” The siblings had no doubt tired of Joey’s rage-filled, self-pitying shit decades ago. They frankly owed him no outsized consideration because guaranteed, he never went out of his way for anyone but his own miserable self. I just wonder of they knew about the rifle.

^^volatile crazy sibling

[quote] They frankly owed him no outsized consideration because guaranteed, he never went out of his way for anyone but his own miserable self.

The owed him no outsize consideration and they didn't give him any. Didn't work out that well for them.

[quote] They frankly owed him no outsized consideration

Maybe not, but they weren't exactly proceeding with caution.

Mom had just died.

Brother Joey was living in the only house he had ever known.

Joey was a HOARDER.

Maybe they thought that there was strength in numbers (three of them plus the niece), when in reality, Joey just felt more defensive.

If they would have called the cops to come and drag his fat, crazy ass out some of you all would have demonized them for that, too.

However, it would have been the safest choice because it would have involved sending in trained individuals wearing bulletproof vests with tazers or (worst case) having firearms to shoot back.

You can't reason with an insane person so they never would have been able to talk him into leaving without violence. And he obviously wasn't going to agree to move out on his own in time, since he had all of his "stuff" there and was content to live in the refuse and rot.

It's a shame they showed up with a realtor instead of law enforcement.

They’re selling the house “as is”

Well, he had been telling the neighbor(s) that if they heard gunshots, no need to call 911 b/c it would be too late. The cop at OP was saying that, had they known, they would have taken away his firearms. I.e., the neighbors should have called the cops to report this kind of comment.

R137 - I didn't want to go on too long but I was a Long Island Sound Italian.

R135 - I did it but it was really difficult. My mother didn't outright play the guilt card, but it was there. And it's true. For five years, she had to live alone though she did stay with my sister fairly often. My brother-in-law had several cousins and such that were the youngest male. I asked her, "do you want me to turn out like Uncle Mario?" She understood it wasn't good for me.

Sounds like an alternate plot for Being There.

The details of mother's will was released - she wanted the son out.

“I direct any member of my family who may be living in such home at the time of my death to vacate same to facilitate such sale and empower my Executor to take any and all steps reasonably required to effectuate this provision of my Will,” the document states.

Great idea, Mom.. 👍

White people are crazy as fuck. It is never ok to murder all yo mafuckin siblings after your mom has died. Never.

Forget about getting a good price for that place now.

A great reminder not to be jealous of other people's blessings, because they're always just challenges in disguise. Houses, businesses, siblings, children, money, beauty, fame - all of them require work to maintain & can monstrously disappoint you, destroying any little perfect periods of peace you've planned for yourself.

[quote] “I direct any member of my family who may be living in such home at the time of my death to vacate same to facilitate such sale and empower my Executor to take any and all steps reasonably required to effectuate this provision of my Will,” the document states.

So, they were legally allowed to vacate / evict, but if it were so easy, the mom would have done that when she was alive.

There was no easy way to do that, but I think they did it so quickly after the mom died and not recognizing that the hoarding was going to be a huge issue.

It's pretty weird that nobody here has acknowledged that the squatting son showed obvious signs of mental illness and also likely autism. He required more attention and assistance than he ever got in his life. It was foolish to assume that he would just be able to pick up and leave his lifelong home. I imagine he had no source of income in addition to having negative social skills.

[quote]The details of mother's will was released - she wanted the son out.

Yes and no. What she wanted on whole was for her estate to be divided equally. I'll take it as a given that this poor woman had no idea it would be a literal death sentence for her entire family. I'm not sure if we'll ever know all the details, but my takeaway is that the mother was in SEVERE denial about her son's mental state, and I'd be stunned if the siblings didn't know everything as well.

The red flags here are myriad. He spent months ranting about his imminent eviction. He was "prone to angry outbursts, and neighbors and the authorities said he had grown more unstable in the two weeks since the death of his mother." Why, then, did his mother and siblings quite literally pretend everything was fine? He told a neighbor, “I’m going to be homeless — my siblings are not going to help me. They’re just going to sell the house,” and that seems to be exactly what was happening, albeit in accordance with the will.

That said, and per the updated Post story about the will, Joseph wasn't supposed to "be homeless." He was supposed to inherit an equal share of his mother's estate, as has long been customary for the children of most widows. What didn't happen here, but clearly should've, was someone doing a psychological intake of Joseph LONG before his mother worsened to determine a path of care for him after her passing. You can't just go from living at home for your literal ENTIRE LIFE, and then have your parent AND your home, ripped out from under you without repercussions, and the siblings in particular should've known full well that it would've been ugly.

I suspect they knew everything, and went ahead anyway. They knew their brother would at minimum have to fend for himself, they just didn't know he'd do so via mass murder.