Has Trump cost you friendships and relationships?

No, thank goodness. But, he has made me hyper aware of who I'm dealing with. I don't ask people if they're Trumpers but if I find out they are I make sure I have no involvement with them in any way. If they're shop owners or managers I simply stop spending my money there.

A lot of them continue to listen to Fox News and don't want to admit to Trump's failure.

Not so much COST me a friendship as allowed me to understand what a total psycho one “friend” is/was. Just the one.

Trump has not cost me friendships, but people who are strongly tied to anti-racism and queer ideology are no longer in my circle.

It's vcasued some real estrangement in my extended family. My mother did not hold a memorial service for my late stepfather because she did not want her MAGAt nieces and nephews to attend it from other states because she thought they would offend her during her time of grief with their constant reiterated crazy talking points.

Anyone who is in the extremist section of either Right or Left wing politics are officially clowns to me. I don’t want to return to 1920s racist Alabama but I also don’t want to live in some toddler transitioning Fifth Element world. A return to being moderate and sane would be nice.

R5 your mother is obviously good people.

I was friends with an officer who worked at the military base where I work. He retired and we stayed in touch until he started posting pro-Trump/pro-Melania shit on Facebook and Pinterest. I felt badly because I had even come out to him and he was totally cool with it. But he was very dismissive and insulting towards Michelle and Barack and a total Trump fanboy and I blocked him on social media. His second wife used to be in the Roller Derby.

Everyone I know has lost at least one close familial relationship and a friendship to Trump.

Once you've seen their true hateful faces and how they agree with blatant battshittery, it's difficult to feel the same way about a person. You can still wish a crazy person the best but at a certain point, you can't be close to them for your own peace and sanity.

No, because my life isn't ruled by obsessing over Donald Trump.

The only people who would lose friendships over politics are those with arrested development.

What R1 said. Trump hasn't cost me any friendships; he's just been a great "litmus test" to weed out evil people masquerading as human beings.

yes, I don't trust my sister.

My mom blocked me on Facebook in 2020, but I didn't want her on my Facebook to begin with.

my sister. I told her she was in a cult and she got really mad. I figured she would get over it eventually but in the meantime I got Covid before the vaccine came out and was really sick with no one to help me. She said don't worry about it Trump says it isn't real and you'll get over it. Her daughter told me that she would never speak to me again unless I apologized. I said not to worry because I was never speaking to her again for abandoning me. Trump is just plain destruction.

“Cost?” No, but like others, it helped me “see” the real people I was friends and acquaintances with.

A few have asked what happened and I could have explained, but chose not to.

They’ll never comprehend the reasons and they’ve demonstrated that they’re not worth the effort.

Funny enough R15 I just said the same thing to my mother. I love my mother to death and would do anything for her. She is a good person but completely sucked into Trump. She got it honestly though. She’s been down the rabbit hole since Bush. What I find crazy is that people she defended in the past against her, if Trump turns on them, she turns on them. That is why it really feels like a cult. You feel it intensifying now. She has been isolated from friends and family. Fox and Trump are the only peiple who know the truth. They don’t see what we see. I keep telling her, even outside of politics, he is just not a good person. She’d take a bullet for him at this point, she’s so invested.

It’s a cult, it’s an addiction. And it’s extremely personal. She is saving America from WWIII with her vote. Even though we get along perfectly outside of talking about politics, I feel like I’ve lost her.

[quote]R4/MyTwoCents: Trump has not cost me friendships, but people who are strongly tied to anti-racism and queer ideology are no longer in my circle.

So, in short, you're a MAGAt.

[quote]R6: Anyone who is in the extremist section of either Right or Left wing politics are officially clowns to me. I don’t want to return to 1920s racist Alabama but I also don’t want to live in some toddler transitioning Fifth Element world. A return to being moderate and sane would be nice.

You're 'bothsiding.' If you weren't spending an unhealthy amount of time in the right wing media bubble, you wouldn't be worried about what you call "Fifth Element world." Right wingers have pretty much made it up as a boogeyman.

[quote]R10: No, because my life isn't ruled by obsessing over Donald Trump.

So, you're just fine with what he has done and what he plans to do if he gets back in office?

[quote]R11: The only people who would lose friendships over politics are those with arrested development.

So those who take issue with people being Nazis have 'arrested development,' huh?

My 70-something parents would have a lot more of me in their lives if they hadn’t gone full Trump nut in 2015. Sign on the lawn, upside flag, all the tacky merch advertised on NewsMax. They’re in an affluent part of Connecticut but decided during Dump’s term that they needed to buy & keep a gun in the house the protect themselves from woke and BLM. I’ll call my mom to check in and keep the conversation as banal as possible — ask about the cat, talk about the weather. But somehow hairballs and thunderstorms are Joe Biden’s fault. She can’t help herself.

It’s sad to see two upper middle class people who for all my life were smart and rational and politically moderate get taken in and enthralled by MAGA. It sounds hysterical to call it a cult, but the comparison feels totally apt. The change was stark, and started when they retired during Obama’s second term. They used to consume a lot a TV news, but once they were sitting in front of the TV all day, it went downhill fast.

They know we’re not on the same team anymore, but they would never acknowledge how far they’ve drifted from what “our team” had always been. I don’t think they realize how sick I am of their shit. I don’t think they realize the correlation between their descent into MAGA and my increasing avoidance of them and their absence from any details or tenderness within my immediate family.

My cousin & her husband, we were close, I loaned them two thousand dollars so they could pay their property tax & not lose their home (they paid it back).

Now, they won't speak to me.

R18, you're so dramatic, honey. Please lighten up

My best friend has horseshoed from far left to far right. I’ve stayed in the center. He watches mostly conspiracy theory YouTube videos, Tim Dillon, Joe Rogan, Russell Brand, and a lot that are clearly Russian agitprop, the net effect which has warped his objectivity. In both cases, then and now, he has told me how stupid I am to sell out (in both directions?). I’m going to try to steer around it, but I may be close to losing him after 40 years of friendship through everything.

Retirees are the most vulnerable and in danger due to them sitting around watching TV all day. They really need to keep busy and away from the TV. For some reason they are convinced only Fox tells the truth.

Trump cost me a very long time friendship in 2016. The friend dumped me because I didn't support Trump, BTW. Not the other way around.

[quote]R10/R21: you're so dramatic, honey. Please lighten up

Don't evade the question. So, you're just fine with what he has done and what he plans to do if he gets back in office?

Perhaps I shouldn't expect much from the troll OP of the "𝐓𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐈𝐬 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐌𝐨𝐬𝐭 𝐈𝐦𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐚𝐧𝐭 𝐄𝐥𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐎𝐟 𝐎𝐮𝐫 𝐋𝐢𝐟𝐞𝐭𝐢𝐦𝐞!" thread, who wrote, "Every four years. They cannot all be the "most important.""

My mother wakes up to Fox and goes to sleep to Fox. She actually sets her TV sleep function for an hour. She accuses me of being brainwashed by left wing media outlets. I don’t even watch TV news. My husband’s mother has transitioned too to FOX. It’s crazy to hear during our different telephone conversations the exact same talking points. We compare notes. And they both think they are such independent thinkers, but they say the exact same crazy things - fed to them by Fox.

By the way, who else is suffering from “Trump Derangement Syndrome” according to their MAGA family members?

It cost me something I prefer to characterize as an acquaintanceship, rather than a friendship.

This fellow was someone I'd known since around 2002, the roommate of a former co-worker. These two roommates were the only openly gay men with whom I'd ever been acquainted. The co-worker died around 2008 of AIDS-related complications (liver and kidney failure).

But the roommate had never worked a day in his life, living instead on his elderly mother's largess. She bought him cars, houses, clothes - damn near every little thing his heart desired. He was highly promiscuous, and full of a wealth of fabulously seedy stories of his exploits; entertaining to be around. We didn't see eye-to-eye much (he was religious), but nonetheless occasionally kept each other's company.

Once the roommate died (coincidentally around the time Obama was elected), my acquaintance's politics began to skew farther to the right, his religion more fundamentalist and extreme. While his promiscuity continued unabated, he hypocritically began denouncing LGBTs in religious terms. He became a follower of John Hagee. By the time Trump came to power (whom he wholeheartedly supported), we had next to nothing in common, and spoke infrequently.

When the Covid pandemic broke out, we were almost no longer on speaking terms. It had reached the point where I no longer contacted him, but perhaps every six to eight months, he'd call out of the blue, just to catch up. He'd bought entirely into the MAGAt line that Covid was nothing more serious than a type of the flu, that liberals were entirely making up the reports of deaths, and that the Covid vaccine was a plot to (control? sterilize? kill?) everyone who was taking it. I patiently tried to reason with him, but he was firmly convinced that he was right.

He wanted to come over for a visit. I told him he'd be welcome if he got a Covid vaccine, and could show me his vaccination card. He declined. We hung up, and that (in 2022) was the last I've heard from him.

I do not mourn the loss.

Yup. My brother and his Stepford wife have iced me out, knowing that I'm largely alone, and very lonely. It's caused a lot of resentment on my part and I have no desire to reunite, nor any respect for either of them. Particularly since rather than arguing, I simply expressed a desire not to touch that topic between us as it's upsetting to me. They've decided to ditch me too in the process.

People get dragged into the maga because all of their social connections are within it. It’s their entire social life. Without maga they would have nothing and nobody. They are people who aren’t generally liked outside of their maga world. Like a cult they stay connected to it 24/7.

I can’t blame Trump 100%. I had a friend from high school. We were pretty close. During Obama’s tenure she started sending me email forwards with lots of crazy topics (like Obama takes In God We Trust off of coins) — so the bloom was off the rose.

On November 8, 2015 she texted me a picture of her voting. She’d written her mother’s name on the ballot.

I haven’t replied.

[quote](like Obama takes In God We Trust off of coins)

Now, what could be the origins of readily believing in something like this?

Yes, both familial relationships and friends. If you support Trump, we don’t share values. End of.

[quote]It cost me something I prefer to characterize as an acquaintanceship, rather than a friendship.

Same here. I'd say about 3 people. At the beginning I was very open to discussion and trying (and trying REALLY hard) to understand their points of view and perspectives, but...

All I heard spewed were sound bites and right-wing talking points. I finally reached the point that this was just an effort in futility and so I stopped speaking about politics. This annoyed them immensely as I allowed them to rant on and on and would be unresponsive. Even when asked, I just always replied that I have no opinion or nothing to say. However, I began to refrain from my interactions with them and worse yet--for them, I stopped utilizing their services and never felt obligated to provide any reason. This just drove them to anger and persistence in knowing why. I never explained why or felt that I had too. These people brought up the reason that it was because they supported Trump and I never confirmed or denied as much. I just replied that "change is good".

Oddly enough, his presidency created a wedge between me and one of my best (liberal) friends. I was so shell-shocked by his election, I avoided any media pertaining to him. I literally couldn't look at his visage directly, like he was the frickin' sun (MARY!).

My bff, on the other hand, seemed to cope with the trauma by talking about him CONSTANTLY. Every conversation seemed to start with, "Hey! Did you see what Trump tweeted today?!" The answer was always no.

It wasn't intentional, but I spoke to her less and less. We used to talk almost daily, now we only message on birthdays.

Yes, a couple of ex coworkers, relat, and former classmates. They were all low class trash. I sort of regret cutting off an ex boss because he would have given a good reference.

I never bring up politics in conversation but lately some Boomers are just jumping right into it. They’re buying gold, the U.S. is going to end, there will be a civil war, etc.

I can’t say what I want to say because some are dear family friends, but I did ask if they voted in local elections, because they have a bigger impact on your life than national. It’s almost always a resounding no.

They have trouble with change. It’s a major mental health crisis. This isn’t being examined (because too many people cash in on it).

And not all Boomers are wearing tinfoil under their hats. Plus, some of my old GenX friends are MAGA and can be even bigger pains in the ass.

I avoid discussing politics with my friends. When the topic comes up in a group, I don't engage or just change the subject and it dies away.

I’ve got cousins I don’t want to know. The fact that they claim to be Christians at the same time they support him is just more than I can take. They don’t miss me, either.

I have no MAGA friends but two cousins who are Trumpers. I see them so rarely it’s easy to avoid talking politics when I do. I did have some extreme left wing friends (Jill Stein voters) I ended the relationship when Hamas attacked Israel. All they talk about is pro Palestine/anti Zionism stuff and I just can’t be around them anymore. Even my regular left wing friends got on my nerves during the BLM and trans children days. I try not to argue too much or I’ll have no friends left.

No my friends and i can be on opposing views and still be friends

R40 nobody is impressed with you not having a backbone and not standing up for yourself and what is right. Jan 6th was just a difference of opinion, I guess.

He cost me friendships AND income.

[quote]No my friends and i can be on opposing views and still be friends

I personally don't understand that. What some here are flippantly dismissing as politics I definitely don't see it as such. I suppose it is what one's priorities are. I view anyone supporting Trump and today's Republicans are not supporters of equality, civil rights, and freedom and that "trumps" any other issue for me. To think that in this day and age, there are quite a few looking to make/turn people back into second-class citizens. THEY ARE OUT OF THEIR MINDS! We're not going back to that.

So, (for me), when you say you are still friends with such people, you're saying to me that you are friends and support people who want to abolish my right to marry as a gay person, my right to vote, my right to healthcare, on and on... Fuck that! And... FUCK THEM!

Yeah I don’t want to be buddies with someone who thinks so little of my brain power as to lecture me about how those people at the capitol were just tourists.

R1 So then your answer is yes, dumbass.

R4You might be retarded

I'm curious how so many here can be close friends with someone for so many years and not know that they'd be capable of supporting a morally bankrupt idiot like Donald Trump for President. Even in high school I knew my friends well enough that they would never be onboard with that shit.

It’s true, R47. The bigger surprise was seeing the racists come out after Obama was elected.

Yes. About 25 years ago a good friend started liking Nascar and Country Music - he thought JoDee Mesina was hot, lol. He had always been a freedom of choice, pot smoking liberal and he was now obsessed with right wing politics. He was borderline racist, so Obama just send him over the edge. We drifted away from each other at that point. He became a Trumper in no time, and after running into him and his wife at a funeral of a mutual friend, he was wearing a Trump t-shirt under his jacket. I really didn't know what to say. We stayed in touch via Facebook and his posts were all radically pro-Trump, Obama was not American born, they're going to take MY guns away. God it has been hard to fathom. A mutual friend told me the other day he got a text from this guy about Kamala's family, and why she was unfit. He's just gone nuts.

It's a cult.

It's about intelligence. And it's a great way to weed out low IQ people from your life. Trumpers lack the ability to separate fact from fiction, so they can't be trusted to make rational decisions. As such, you are better off without them.

r49 We don't use "lol" anymore after we've left middle school.

[quote]R47: Even in high school I knew my friends well enough that they would never be onboard with that shit.

Class of '82 here. I graduated too long ago to able to call that distinction. The world has changed since then.

I mostly didn't keep up with my fellow classmates, but I knew where a few of them were. In 2002, the former class president contacted me to see if I knew how to put her in touch with any of us, since she was trying to organize the 20th anniversary Class Reunion. I spoke to the few I'd kept up with and asked for their email addresses, explaining what it was for.

A year or so after the class reunion (which I did not myself attend), she began putting those emails to use, propagating right wing material in support of George Dubya and his war. Evidently she assumed all of us were in lockstep with how right wing she had become. Quite a few of us objected, and demanded that she desist, and lose our emails.

I still know her; she runs a local business. But on those 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦 rare occasions when we cross paths, we don't talk politics. I assume she's since transformed from a Bushie into a MAGAt.

No but I can’t stand the sight of him

My friend has a childhood friend who is a Trumper. My friend argues and makes fun of him but they have stayed friends. They’ve been through too much to give up the friendship. I’ve heard of more recent cases of Trumpers ending friendships with Democrats. That’s a sign to me that they feel scared and vulnerable. I’m not terrified of Trump so I don’t feel so threatened by his fans.

I unfollowed a few high school acquaintances. One was crying about how badly batshit Mike Flynn has been treated. Of all of the Trump insiders Flynn is one of the most evil.

I eased back on a very good anti vax friend for awhile but now we just avoid the topic.

It's not just difficult to be friends with (or attend Thanksgiving dinner with) people who believe bullshit like this but but we shouldn't be expected to do so.

We deal with enough of this in the media, at work, and life in general. Our off-time/family time is precious to us, too. Not just to conservatives.

Anyone who tells you: "Well you just have to endure their insanity and hatefulness. Because, that's why."

No. No, we do not. If it's about "freedom", bitch *I* have freedom to not be around crazy and hateful shitheads.

"North Texas megachurch pastor blasts Democrats as 'godless' and 'demonic'

Pastors across the state are ramping up their political rhetoric ahead of the 2024 presidential election."

No, because I keep my mouth shut and don't bring up politics. If I did, I'd be cut off from my family.

My brother in law's brother. No big loss he was always an asshole. He actually made a firm announcement during Thanksgiving dinner in 2019 that we should all thank Trump this Thanksgiving for making America great again as part of our prayer. I actually responded, No fucking way! Everyone was horrified except his wife. I have since refused to attend subsequent Thanksgiving dinners knowing he will be there. So have a couple of others. My brother in law tries to remain neutral, neither approving or condemning his brother's stance. Personally I went to these dinners more out of a sense of obligation, and now host my own Thanksgiving dinner with mostly friends that may not have had a place to go on that day, so I actually prefer it this way.

[quote]That’s a sign to me that they feel scared and vulnerable.

IMHO, it's an attempt to comfort and secure themselves. They know that as things has worsened--and they have, they have to confront the reality that those who have been calling them fools and idiots because of their support for Trump were right.

R52 go fuck yourself.

These stories about your MAGA/Fox-addicted moms and siblings etc are tough. I’m so sorry, and am thankful my 84yo mom has mostly checked out of politics. I let her cynically dismiss it all and wave it away with broad and inaccurate bothsider-ism even when I feel she’s wrong… she’s 84, and probably on the verge of the final decline. She knows I’m a high-engagement progressive Dem and we both don’t “go there” much in our conversations.

Its sad to read this thread and see the damage one man has done. Under the best circumstances, it will take years to end his and his ilk's stranglehold on the GOP that will allow us to go back to something close to 'politics as usual,' though it won't ever be the same.

Thankfully, none of my friends and family have fallen into the MAGA shit hole and if they did, there is nothing wrong with cutting someone off rather than having to deal with the delusion.

Yup, it’s that bad.

Let's not pretend that it's been civil with these Republicans - it's been bad with family and friends since at least 2000. Yes, it has gone into crazy town - but they were ALWAYS loud and obnoxious and misinformed.

It's not just Trump, he just turned it up to 11.

There's definitely a difference between "loud and obnoxious" and the asshole who always insists on "debating" everyone, and the straight up lunacy of the MAGA cult.

Look, very few of us are mental health specialists. We don't want to deal with crazy people on holidays or bonding with friends. Life is too short to be miserable, with miserable crazy people, when you don't absolutely have to be.

R66 mental health professionals don't want to deal with it in their personal lives either, at least the ones I know. They deal with nuts all day.

I had a friend of 20+ years from New Zealand. He emigrated to the US in the late 1990s and got married for a green card. Became a small business owner there (computer repair shop) and did OK for himself. He was never very political, pretty hedonistic, and prided himself on not reading or keeping up with the news (had an advanced degree in mathematics and was objectively pretty smart). Then, in 2016, he started sending me links about Trump, Hillary, and how the "grab them by the pussy" tape was faked. Started linking to progressively dodgier and more out-there websites. I told him I would block his email and wanted to break off contact. God knows what/how he's doing now. This is the only time I've ended a friendship over "politics."

R19, I feel that.

My brother has turned into one of those doomsday prepper idiots.

Like you, I tried to keep thinks as banal as possible - how his dog is, how his truck rebuild is coming along, movies we’ve seen or family news (who got married:divorced, had kids, got sick, moved, etc)

And, like your parents, he just goes right back to “the gubmint gonna take mah gunz!!! Buy gold!! Obama is coming for us!”

And, my personal favorite, “don’t come cryin to me when Obama comes for you!” LMAO.

Even after Trump is out of the picture it will probably be a long time before this country feels any unity again.

Absolutely. Some day I will just yell at my Trumper boss and quit. It hasn't happened yet but he's also a rabid gun nut and my personal feeling is all such people are would be murderers and deserve death, which is probably their subconscious wish.

9/11 was an offense upon OUR country that could not be paid back.

The racist, xenophobic tantrum began. A vague desert enemy wan’t enough to focus their rage upon, so those hurt people made do with what was handy; our own marginalized people.

A long friendship was definitely in long decline before Trump, but Trump’s rise was definitely the nail in the coffin (& more so on my MAGA ex-friend’s end).

Family like r13 and r14 has makes me glad I'm an only child with a sane, good mother. Geez.

r61 blocking r52 and his ilk was the best choice I've made.

I needed a driver for a medical appointment later today & reluctantly asked my willing MAGA sister to take this on. But because I feared her car might have a Trump bumper sticker, I insisted that we take my car.

My MAGA aunt refused to get vaccinated and died from Covid

Big time. A few family members and some formerly close friends. Just fired an associate who revealed that they're a MAGAt. Not going to do business or waste time with evil Nazis and their supporters. We can choose with whom we interact and perhaps sometimes send a message.

Make my day, R77, & tell me she was from a battleground state.

[quote] So those who take issue with people being Nazis have 'arrested development,' huh?

[quote] Just fired an associate who revealed that they're a MAGAt.

Hopefully you get fired for being gay.

[quote] But because I feared her car might have a Trump bumper sticker, I insisted that we take my car.

😂

[quote] Even after Trump is out of the picture it will probably be a long time before this country feels any unity again.

It hasn’t been united since Eisenhower.

A co-worker of mine is very intelligent, her logical problem solving abilities are amazing. She scored in the upper 10% on her Air Force entrance exams and was told "your IQ is so high you could easily complete law school or medical school". I'm amazed at the raw intelligence she possesses. She is a Trumper. I asked her how she reconciles Trump and Epstein's friendship and she said " He said that when he found out about Epstein he stopped hanging with him".

I don't think she has any political curiosity and she is attracted to authority figures, her husband is 20 years older than her and a police officer (though not a Trump believer). Basically I think she is a lazy thinker concerning subjects that don't interest her and she makes her mind up and refuses to think further.

My Trump loving neighbor across the street is spending $20,000 on a privacy fence she can't afford because the government, (Democrats) is going to outlaw vegetable gardens. She also believes Jesus guides her every move but she hates our neighbors from Guam,Mexico and Saudi Arabia. She's always seemed kind of simple minded.

R82, I’m also going to do my level best to steer clear of anything political-related. But since this is a medical appointment, doctors - & science in general - has become one of her many bugaboos, this might be a fool’s errand.

^ have

In response to r47, some but not all Trumpers got activated during Covid. I had a friend flip then. I knew it was happening when he started using the word “Sheeple.” It always starts with “I don’t like Trump, but…” He moved out of NYC and down to Florida. He switched from a Bushwick Brooklyn Mirage club goer to a mullet wearing DelRay beach flip flopping wearing Trunpster. Last we talked he was arguing how “Don’t say gay” protects children. And yes he knows I am gay.

[quote]Obama is coming for us!”

I find it interesting that it seems to always make its way back to the Black guy...

[quote] I had a friend flip then. I knew it was happening when he started using the word “Sheeple.” It always starts with “I don’t like Trump, but…” He moved out of NYC and down to Florida. He switched from a Bushwick Brooklyn Mirage club goer to a mullet wearing DelRay beach flip flopping wearing Trunpster.

"We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"

LOL!

Just one or two. One Trumper blocked me on Facebook once he found out I’m not a Trumper. The others from high school? Well, it cemented my decision not to cultivate those friendships.

I’ll be civil but I won’t allow anyone in my inner circle who still supports Trump or the Republicans. You’re either with me or against me.

It's funny someone should post this: I received a grad invite for a graduation that was already over as a clear play for $$ from one of my cousin's kids. Around the same time, the kids father posted a MORE MAGA THAN EVER banner on their Facebook. I was kind of on the fence about sending a gift - I didn't really know the kid, but she seemed nice enough but after what her father posted...I threw the grad invite in the trash & never gave it a second thought. You don't need my Blue State $$, bitches!

In one way, I feel sad about this - I love my cousin even if we're not especially close, but I also feel like Trump just brought something out in people that was always there, below the surface and now there is just no denying it. Harris is by no perfect & neither was Biden, but they didn't lead a traitorous assault on the US Capitol (among other things), so stuff your MORE MAGA THAN EVER bullshit

In a very sad way Trump was just the ladle that stirred all of the racist and xenophobic attitudes lingering at the bottom of the stew of America. It brought all of that out into the open and radicalized those people. Unfortunately he has caused them to double on their feelings instead of trying to find ways to bridge the gaps in our differences. It’s also taught an entire generation of Americans, who were suppose to be pushing the country forward, who and how to hate.

[quote]Let's not pretend that it's been civil with these Republicans - it's been bad with family and friends since at least 2000.

That certainly wasn't the case with my family. None of them ever said a word about politics prior to Trump. In the case of my MAGAT brothers, I'd guess that none of them ever voted in any election before Trump. Now politics comes up in virtually every conversation, though I'm usually able to quickly redirect it.

I didn't to to a high school reunion this summer because all the high school acquaintances on my Facebook feed are always posting right-wing memes. Again, there was no political material posted before Trump.

I have a Facebook friend that is a rabid RFK Jr stan. I was kind of shocked when he started posting all kinds of RFK shit, but I'm more amused by it than offended. And RFKk's endorsement of Trump hasnt phased him one bit

But has it fazed him?

No. I don't know a single Trumpanzee IRL.

No, I've lost no friends to Trump. I have a niece who married a stupid bumpkin who looks like a fatter Captain Kangaroo with a worse haircut. She is very liberal, he is very listens-to-conservative-radio programs. In any case, a complete idiot (if very kind to my niece.) I suspect one of my nephews is probably a Trumper because he's sure to hate immigrants and have a serious bootstrap grudge against the world (he married well to to a wife with youngish parents who don't trust him an inch.) He's also a vain bully, like his father. who mellowed a bit with age.

Those are the two people with whom I have any connection whatsoever (and it's a very thin and even more infrequent connection) whom I know or suspect to be Trumpers. They're easily avoided as they're a continent away. Otherwise I know no one who has any time for Trump or his kind.

Sure. Why wouldn't it?

My relatives by marriage believe Obama is running the government. These are not politically engaged rage-filled people. They are just “god-fearing” salt of the earth country bumpkins who are apparently too stupid to breathe.

The only reason I don’t lose my mind is that I so rarely see them, and we don’t ever discuss politics or religion. But I’ve lost all respect because they’re so dumb and ignorant. My husband continues to poke the bear by challenging their politics, but I stay the fuck out because I won’t control myself. Understand this — these are truly profoundly stupid people. They don’t even know what critical thinking or thinking for themselves MEAN.

I remember my father explaining to me (I was born in ‘72) that a huge chunk of America, maybe 25%, stayed loyal to fucking Nixon. These people are the same — they are too proud/stupid to have the balls to admit that they got scammed. He snowed their asses, and they are too fucking WEAK to admit it!

Last thought. As others have said, I am much tougher about not being around these people — I can have pity for their stupidity “from afar”. I used to think (because our leaders taught us this!) that I was duty-bound to hear them out. Fascism has changed that. You don’t have a duty to hear fascists out, not duty as a son, not duty as a daughter, not as a sibling, a relative, a friend, an acquaintance. Stand up for what you believe in with them if the opportunity presents itself. It is much better to be respected than liked, so stand by your personal and democratic values, no matter how uncomfortable it gets. I refuse to be aligned with any person or org that knowingly discriminates against other people.

[quote]R80: [link to Wiki article on 'Godwin's Law']

Let's see... on this thread, you're R11, R80, R81, R82, and R83.

[quote]R81 (upon reading that someone was fired for being a MAGAt): Hopefully you get fired for being gay.

Evil post, that one. MAGAts frequently express themselves in ways that are socially unacceptable, and that's likely the reason they were fired, rather than for a mere unexpressed point of view.

Also, being a MAGAt is a choice; being gay isn't. 𝐼𝑓 you were gay, you'd know that. And if you're not, WTF are you doing here?

Regarding the article on Godwin's Law, which it seems you really don't understand:

From the article:

[quote]Godwin's law can be applied mistakenly or abused as a distraction, a diversion, or even censorship, when miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole even when the comparison made by the argument is appropriate.[9] Godwin has criticized the over-application of the adage, claiming that it does not articulate a fallacy, but rather is intended to reduce the frequency of inappropriate and hyperbolic comparisons:[10]

You're mistakenly citing it.

[quote]Godwin's law has many corollaries, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[2] than others. For example, many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums have a tradition that, when a Nazi or Hitler comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever made the comparison loses whatever debate is in progress.[13] This idea is itself sometimes mistakenly referred to as Godwin's law.[14]

It was in this incorrect sense that you were citing it, wasn't it? Admit it - you meant to use it as a rhetorical silencer.

[quote]Godwin rejects the idea that whoever invokes Godwin's law has lost the argument, and suggests that, applied appropriately, the rule "should function less as a conversation ender and more as a conversation starter."[15] In an interview with Time Magazine, Godwin said that making comparisons to Hitler would actually be appropriate under the right circumstances:[16]

My statement at R18 that "So those who take issue with people being Nazis have 'arrested development,' huh?" was correct usage.

[quote]In August 2017, while commenting on the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, Godwin himself endorsed and encouraged social-media users to compare its "alt-right" participants to Nazis.[17][18]

Godwin himself agrees with me.

[quote]Godwin has denied the need to update or amend the rule. In June 2018, he wrote, in an opinion piece for the Los Angeles Times: "It still serves us as a tool to recognize specious comparisons to Nazism – but also, by contrast, to recognize comparisons that aren't."[15]

The comparison of MAGAts to Nazis is one of the latter.

^ R99 that is much easier said than done when it's not your parents, mother or father. You can stand up for yourself, you can make your points known, you can stand your ground. I do, all the time when politics come up. That's the easy part. The harder part is moving past that and finding some sort of relationship, some common ground. Because not all of us want to kick our moms to the curb.

I'm glad my mom started voting Democrat once Trump ran.

me too

Just stay away from discussing Trump if you truly love your relatives and they are Trumpers. It is the most stupid thing imaginable to break up with relatives because they like Trump. Politics? Really?

Friends are another matter.

But why would have had friends who support Trump in the first place?

Why would 'you' have had

[quote]But why would have had friends who support Trump in the first place?

In defense of many of us... we were just as surprised, or more, than anyone else.

He never really was very close, but my brother-in-law has managed to undercut any family support and create a bit of drama:

I have a very elderly, very devout mother-in-law who, sadly but inevitably, started to experience dementia about two years ago. It has progressed, but recently at an alarming rate. She is conservative, Catholic, but has always expressed deep affection for my husband, her youngest son, as well as his lesbian sister, as their partners. I adore her and love her more than most of my own family.

My husband is one of 6 children. His oldest brother is a failed entrepreneur married to a woman who works full-time to provide a basic income and those all-important health benefits. Meanwhile, the brother has been trying to make his one "big idea" work for over 10 years. In the past he's offered "investment opportunities" for his siblings and parents to capitalize upon; when those didn't fully pan out he has asked his parents for loans that in the end he never really fulfilled his obligations for.

My husband keeps an eye on his mother's expenses, bank/charge accounts, etc, given her dementia. She is well enough off that she has little to be concerned about. Last month he noticed an odd charge for $4000. Suspecting fraud, he called his other brother with whom he shares financial oversight. The first discovery was the charge was to a Trump PAC. When they pierced the issue further, they noticed the charged happened the same day that the "entrepreneur" brother was visiting their Mom from out-of-state. They called to ask him, but he never picked up. When he returned the call later, he said "Oh yeah! That was me, let me get Mom on the line and she can tell you all about it." He proceeded to keep them on the line for around 5 minutes while he "called Mom". When she got on the phone she immediately said "Yes, I did that... (brother) had brought it up to me and I forgot to tell you about it."

The basic story from my B-I-L was that he had just finished donating $20 to Trump and started talking to his Mom about it. He talked about "how much Trump sacrificed for our country, all that he contributed, and just how much help he needs these days to overcome all the challenges against him." M-I-L commented how nice that was and he asked her if she would like to help. She said yes, so he instantly grabbed his laptop and walked her through the contribution. Mind you, this woman is NOT tech savvy in the slightest! The only tech she has in her house is an Alexa. No laptop, no iPad, nada.

When all was said and done, she supposedly typed in the amount and he only balked by saying "my siblings would probably be concerned its so much, I don't want to get in trouble with them for this" but didn't stop her or offer less. (Later, in trying to defend himself he said "Well it's not a lot of money FOR HER.")

Most of us who know this story (it's still not clear if he's told his wife about this... she is NOT a MAGAt) agree, but have varying opinions of the severity, this is elder abuse/coercion. My husband and I are thankfully on the same page and have not had any regret removing ourselves from any interactions we've been presented with at family functions.

I've been very taken aback at Trump endorsements on Facebook, etc. It made me think less of them.

I no longer speak to my siblings as they are all Trumpers.

I have several Trumpster relatives who live in other states, but I only see them every couple of years. The last time I saw most of them was in 2022 at a cousin's funeral. They were polite and didn't discuss politics.

I did end two friendships with Trumpsters who lived near me. One was a woman supported Obama in 2008 and 2012. But, she fell into Trump cult and started posting racist things on Facebook and she called another mutual friend's boyfriend a "beaner" at a BBQ. That friend also cut off contact with her. The other friend was a family friend who had grown up with my late brother. This guy didn't have a stable family life and when he was in middle school and high school, he spent a lot of time at my family's home and he considered my parents "parental figures". He and my brother went to the same college and he spent Thanksgivings and Christmases with us. My brother passed away at age 26 in an accident and he kept in touch with us after my brother's death and would visit my parents a few times a year. He was a very kind and likable person. After he fell into the Trump cult, he like the other friend started posted racist things on Facebook. I unfriended him, but my other brother remained friends with him on Facebook. He died of covid in late 2021 and he wasn't vaccinated. My parents found out because my brother called them after he found out via Facebook. The guy's wife had been posting updates after he was admitted to the hospital. A few days after my brother told us, I got a text from the guy's wife (I never deleted her number) and she was asking if I could donate money. I ended up donating as she was left with two little kids.

R108 I am stunned. That is disgusting. Alas, that is the ilk we're dealing with, sigh.

[quote] The last time I saw most of them was in 2022 at a cousin's funeral. They were polite and didn't discuss politics.

Alas, this is a rare breed. Say what you will about their self-awareness but once they put on their first offensive T-shirt or ballcap they must figure out polity is pointless.

[quote] I ended up donating as she was left with two little kids.

If you ever get dragged for this here, I imagine you did this so you could live with yourself. Bravo!

R108 That really disgusting that someone is willing to rob a family member to donate money to that fucking pig. Trumpism really is a cult.

Just remember, Love always wins and Trump supporters are sad, angry people.

The lame defense of Trump I;m getting now is 'I hate what he says, how he says it, but I will vote for his policies'. Or we need a 'law and order president'. I have family members, raised Catholic, who now go to something called Crossroads Church, which is just a Chrisrian meeting place for rich whites who work in the corporate sector, I attended a service there, everyone seemed to talk the same. The church was, 'off the bus line' in a beautifully manicured area where no Blacks or Hisoanics would be seen, unless they were cleaning the restrooms. I asked a very nice lady what she liked about Trump, and she told me he's an actor, she was always enjoyed him on tv. Huh? She thought The Apprentice was a staged show and DJT is still just playing that part, he;s not really like what he sounds like at rallies. He's a family man, blah blah blah. Then she warned me not to eat at The Chicken Salad Chick near where I lived. "I hear there have been times when people were robbed leaving that place, though I love their chicken salad. She told me to DoorDash only and when you have them come to your place watch their eyes because they'll be scoping out your place. All true.

[quote]"I hate what he says, how he says it, but I will vote for his policies'. Or we need a 'law and order president'.

I always wonder what exactly does this mean. What policies? What policies that have directly affected them?

And then, it always seems to work its way back to the southern border, immigrants, etc

Oh... "those" policies...

[quote]Or we need a 'law and order president'.

okay, sure. let's see, a convicted felon, or an attorney general. . . . .hmmm. . . .

No. I have no friends or family who support him.

Someone asked earlier in one of these posts; "What is happening here?"

This...

Kyle Ingram @kyle_ingram11

NEW: NC Supreme Court Justice Phil Berger Jr. will not be recused from two major cases involving his father, the Republican Senate leader.

The court's Republican majority ruled that Berger won't have to recuse, with the 2 Democrats dissenting #ncpol

More..

Anderson Clayton☀️@abreezeclayton Aug 25

THIS is what corrupt courts looks like folks! Justice Berger, son of Sen. Berger, refuses to recuse himself from hearing a case where his FATHER would control appointment powers if the Republican state legislature is successful in stripping them from the Governor. ⬇️🗣️ #ncpol

[quote] The church was, 'off the bus line' in a beautifully manicured area where no Blacks or Hisoanics would be seen, unless they were cleaning the restrooms.

As long as they know they have to use the bathroom out in the garage!

And don’t you dare call me or any of my friends racist, we will scream about how unfair that is!

[quote] I always wonder what exactly does this mean. What policies? What policies that have directly affected them?

I've noticed that, as befits the Great Realignment, many of Trump's supporters, like Kennedy & Gabbard, are rabid neocons, opposed to "forever wars." And the Never Trumpers in large part come from the old neocon class. As someone who's followed politics for a long time, I've noticed that's particularly evident in the old conservative pundit class.

A lot of these conservatives seem bound to have some sort of posting behavior in order to keep favor with their conservative friend/business circle. It's part of the cult. Like posting something about Jesus for Christians.

The right-wing 'meme' factory is always producing more shit every day - it's insane how much they create.

They need or want to post something - but they're not particularly clever, funny or have much interesting going on so - let's retweet a right-wing meme!

I'm not saying Dems don't do this - but it's wildly disproportionate.

All of a sudden, Rape-Treason-Career Criminal- Severe Dementia has no negative effect or consequences to these people.

I think, as it's said, R125, that this is already baked-in with Trump's supporters.

You gals are nuts.

Cut them all out of my life last election. So long, farewell. Don't miss them, including relatives.

Why, we could be related: