What kind of legacy did Edgar Rosenberg leave behind ?

Rooms 225, 227& 229, 2-bedroom suite in the old Four Seasons Hotel in Logan Square on Ben Franklin Parkway.

That's where Edgar killed himself!!

He wasn't German.

"Seeked help"???

Did she ever make jokes about this? You know, the deep-cutting sort.

Amazing to think Meryl Streep played, her, the rabbi and Patrick Wilson’s mother in Angels In America

[quote]]He wasn't German.

If he was born in Germany then he was German. That’s how nationality works Adolf.

His legacy is Melissa.

We try not to talk about it.

Joan’s fame and act was very ‘in the moment.’ She didn’t do much that would have large numbers of future generations who will be watching her like a beloved sitcom or movie. Many won’t know or remember her as more time passes.

[quote] He wasn't German.

Being born in Germany in 1925 doesn't make you German ?

WOW - you learn something new every day.

You can relive the tears, the laughter, and Joan and Melissa's eating disorders, by watching their 1994 TV movie about his suicide. Here it is on YouTube.

I tried to watch Behind the Tears (or whatever it was called), but couldn't make it very far. It's really bad camp.

A pokah playa!

[quote]Amazing to think Meryl Streep played, her, the rabbi and Patrick Wilson’s mother in Angels In America

Using the same bad accent and hammy acting that made her the Grand Poobah of the Uhmericahn Theatuh.

"FOX found him (as co-producer) to be overbearing and too interfering with the production..."

I think there was a dark cloud over the whole deal. And Joan's frenetic dark humor was better in small doses. Her occasional substituting for Johnny was always must-see TV.

Her legacy was forcing comedy to grow up. Except for people like Richard Pryor and Woody Allen, comics before her were rather lame. Her humor was self-deprecating and brutal, the voice of a wounded ugly duckling who by some miracle survived- and thrived. Look at me, Ma- I'm playing Vegas!

I can always picture her backstage at some dive bar in the early 1960s, feeling like some aging loser who threw it all away- college degree, career, marriage- for... what?

[quote]Her humor was self-deprecating and brutal, the voice of a wounded ugly duckling who by some miracle survived- and thrived. Look at me, Ma- I'm playing Vegas!

Didn't Phyllis Diller do this before her ?

I remember a TV interview she did when Diller died, about the night both she and Barbra were co-headlining in one of the clubs (the Hungry-I ?) in the Village back in the early 60s -just getting their start. Diller was seated at a table in the front row enjoying the show. Afterwards, the two of them were in their shared dressing room, when Diller came in to congratulate both of them - said they were incredible and were bound to be successful. Diller gave Streisand and Rivers her phone number, and asked them to stay in touch with her (which they did, up until the end of her life) because she wanted to follow their journey to stardom. Rivers gave Diller a lot of credit for breaking down barriers for female comics, and welcoming Rivers into that exclusive world. Said Diller and her style of comedy (self-deprecation) was a huge inspiration to her own act.

Speaking of Phyllis Diller, she had six children by her first husband. Her second husband was bisexual.

Leave it to R15 to turn this into a Streisand thread.

Babs and Phyllis worked at a dive in the West Village called the Bon Soir. Other than an off Bway “play” before either were famous, Joan Rivers and Barbra Streisand did not know each other. Another of Joan’s tacky habits was to name drop and place herself with other big names that she hardly if ever brushed shoulders with. Total fabrication.

It was Phyllis Diller who shared a dressing room with the youngster Streisand. Joan Rivers did not, never shared one with Streisand.

The one time I had to deal with Joan, Edgar, Melissa (original nose) and her attack-fag, Jason Dyl, I realized what a freak show Joan Rivers was.

Firstly, she signed everything Joan Rivers R , like she was a queen. Secondly, Edgar seemed so sad that I am surprised God did not send him back from his fist Suicide attempt,"Edgar, do it again, she doesn't get it."

She was a cunts, cunt, who never tied of cunting in her everlasting cunting days.

She was an un-empathetic creature who only found love and security in CASH.

She died possessing many interesting things, an empty husk of a human being.

[quote]It was Phyllis Diller who shared a dressing room with the youngster Streisand. Joan Rivers did not, never shared one with Streisand.

How could she share a dressing room with her at the nightclub when she was there to watch her perform ?

I believe Rivers. She was the one who said she met Streisand in 1959 in the 'off-off-off Broadway play' Driftwood in her memoir back in 1984. Streisand - for some reason - denied she was ever in the play (she wanted everyone to believe 'Harry Stoones' was her first time performing live). The Streisand suddenly remembered she was in Driftwood years after.

[quote] Leave it to [R15] to turn this into a Streisand thread.

Why not say I turned this into a Phyllis Diller thread? I mentioned both women in the same post.

Trolls are going to troll.

I don’t believe Barbra knew it was “Joan Rivers” in Driftwood because that character hadn’t been invested yet. Did the play actually become a production in front of an audience? I don’t think so. Therefore Harry Stoones was Streisand’s first off-Broadway play. Of course Joan had to make Driftwood into some nefarious spectacle with invented non-funny scenes she thought were amusing.

Invested s/b INVENTED

Rivers was consistent in all media. Her work in TV (Tears as Laughter), movies (Rabbit Test) and theater (Fun City) are all considered among the worst ever.

R19, that's interesting. Was it very clear the "R" stood for Regina and not Rosenberg?

r24, She used the Regal styling. It was no accident.

Hopefully he didn’t have a cockroach around constantly telling him to OD.

Who Joan falsely tried to tie herself to has meaning -

Woody Allen, much more talented

Richard Pryor, edgy

Lily Tomlin, Barbra Streisand, YOUNGER

'She reinvented herself as a comedienne, building her new nightclub act and TV appearances.'

That's what she was from the beginning. She did not re-invent herself. Towards the end she became more manic and seemed to have developed some dementia. She walked out of an interview for no reason claiming the woman interviewing her was being negative. She wasn't. It was bizarre.

Hey, OP.

Since you're obviously a special care, please provide your definition of "legacy" for us, so we know which turnip truck you've plopped off of/

Rivers never got over the Carson snub. She got bitter and listening to her rant at the end of her career was like having to listen to the neighborhood kook insult everyone and everything. It was just unpleasant. She seemed like a profoundly unhappy woman.

[quote]Joan Rivers and Barbra Streisand did not know each other.

People assume all Jews know each other, just as all Gays know each other.

Streisand said she knew Rivers when she was Joan Molinsky.

I'm not a Billy Crystal fan, but I thought "Rabbit Test" had more laughs (however silly) than most of his later movies.

Well, handing our nuclear secrets over to “the Reds” was beyond the pale, that’s for damn sure!

[quote] I don’t believe Barbra knew it was “Joan Rivers” in Driftwood because that character hadn’t been invested yet. Did the play actually become a production in front of an audience?

Where to begin with this mess ?

1. The character 'Mr. Blake' was 'invented' when Streisand and Molinsky joined the production. However, it was not cast right away as it was written as a guy, and they had trouble finding an actor who was interested in the role. Joan suggested they change the character to a female ('Miss Blake') and she would take the role. They did. Streisand played 'Lorna'.

2. The show opened in January, 1959 at the 40 seat Garrett Theater on 49 th Street. Tickets were $1.50 and the show ran for six weeks. Streisand, 16, graduated from high school during the run.

Joan was more talented than people (or herself) ever gave her credit for. For a "Rabbit Test" and "Tears and Laughter" there was a "Girl Most Likely To" For one "Fun City" there was her Tony nominated turn in "Sally Marr" and rave replacement run in "Broadway Bound"

That being said, she would have been cancelled sometime in the last decade. I can't see her going through the extreme political correctness or the Me Too Hollywood era without saying something in extremely bad taste.

[quote]Rivers never got over the Carson snub.

And Carson never got over what she did to him either. Both should have just let it go.

Johnny was every bit as bitter, becoming a recluse from family and associates in his final years. NBC shafted him the way his crew did to Joan. He never forgot it.

R36, Carson probably never gave it a second thought. He was probably bitter and a recluse before he retired. Even Joan admitted on the Carson documentary that she handled things badly. No shit. It essentially cost her everything.

[quote] Larry King once asked Rivers if there was any friendship between her and Streisand, or is Streisand not happy with her jokes about her (mostly being cross-eyed). Rivers gave a very detailed answer:

She said Streisand 'gets the joke', meaning she knows Rivers says it in great fun. She said they went back decades, when they were first starting out and had remained friends ever since (this was in 2006, when Streisand was doing her third concert tour). She said whenever she and Streisand found themselves in the same town (at the time Streisand lived in LA and Rivers was in NYC) they would always get together for lunch or dinner.

She explained that Streisand NEVER called her 'Joan Rivers' - she was always Joan Molinsky, because that's how she knew her from the early days. She always knew when she got a birthday card or invitation in the mail from Streisand, because the envelope was always addressed "Miss Joan Molinsky" (Rivers thought this was very endearing). She told King that whenever they would meet up at a restaurant, Streisand would greet her by saying, "Is that my friend Joan Molinsky ?" and she'd respond, "Is that my friend Bar-BA-ra Streisand ?" emphasizing the middle A she dropped long ago. She loved her time together with her because they'd stay for hours eating (she had said early on Streisand loved food, loved to eat and would order all different things off the menu for the two of them - and save room for dessert). They'd laugh, they'd talk (aside from their careers they had other things in common, such as being New York Jewish women who each had a kid about the same age). Rivers said Streisand is a 'very funny girl with a wicked sense of humor' and they'd laugh for hours (the only other one she enjoyed being with as much as Streisand was Cher - another funny girl who 'gets the joke'). She admitted neither one of them drank alcohol. She ended reminiscing about Streisand with the fact that at the last dinner they had together which was a few weeks prior, Streisand pulled out two tickets to her concert - one for Joan and one for Melissa.

After the interview aired, Streisand stans ripped Rivers apart on the internet sites. Called her a liar, said she wished she had a friendship with Streisand, no truth in the 'Molinsky' greeting, and worse - how dare she say Streisand loved food and loved to eat as though she was some kind of pig. And furthermore, everyone knew Streisand stayed away from desserts - which is why she remained thin ! Joan was a liar !

It took Rivers' death and Streisand's book (especially about her love of food and desserts) to prove them wrong - and Rivers right.

[quote]Carson probably never gave it a second thought.

Clearly he did. Because when David Brenner did the exact same thing, only going to ABC, Carson welcomed him back on the show after flopping. So why not do the same thing for Rivers?

R39 Because she was a w-w-w-w-w-w-woman, and women aren't supposed to be on equal footing as men.

[quote]Because when David Brenner did the exact same thing, only going to ABC, Carson welcomed him back on the show after flopping.

The rift between Carson and Rivers was because Joan didn’t tell Carson she was doing it. Had she met with him and talked about doing it, Carson may have not been hostile towards her. He was caught off guard when he found out about it on the news.

I imagine Brenner told Carson about his plans.

R41, Brenner did tell Carson of his plans. Rivers was so secretive about it that she was even discussing guests for her next appearance the week before her plans on Fox were announced. Fredde DeCordova noted that Rivers even tried hiring away a large number of the Tonight Show staff. In his book, he said that while Rivers' ratings were good, they were never as good as she tried to make it and if she were honest, she'd herself admit that the manner she handled it was tacky and unprofessional. She took several swings at the Tonight Show after she left saying she was happy that she could now book whatever guests she wanted. Carson had a great relationship with Rivers and Rosenberg. Edgar almost got Carson to jump from NBC to ABC. DeCordova took the final shot by saying that if she really did see a list of potential Tonight Show replacements and she wasn't on it, her show proved NBC was correct. She was great for a week but not week after week.

R32, it all came back to her much later. Someone probably had to explain it all to Streisand because that play was so minor, short and insignificant.

R38 = Melissa Rivers

R35, is English your first language? In 1959, Joan Molinsky was a “serious actress,” not the comedian Joan Rivers.

Once and for all this needs to be clarified AGAIN (as it was discussed after her death):

The reason Rivers did not talk to Carson before she and FOX made the public announcemnt that she was launching her own show is because of the agreement she had with FOX. They had told her if word got out before they were ready to go public, the deal was off - they'd find someone else to host their late show. She and Edgar didn't want to jeopardize what she had, so they played by the rules and told no one. They carried on at NBC as business as usual.

If you think back to the spring of1986, you will recall that they did a damn good job at FOX not having this leaked to the press. They were negotiating with Rivers for a few months, and no one got wind of their discussions, negotiations, or signed contracts. The only thing the media knew - with few details - was that FOX was launching 'a fourth national network' (big news back then), they would start off slow with just a few hours of prime time shows spread out over a few days, and they were eventually air a late night show, as well. THAT WAS IT. Never a hint about Rivers being the host of the show, even though they were signing contracts.

When Barry Diller held a press conference in May, 1986 he officially talked about the 'slow' launch planned for that September / October and then surprised everyone by bringing Rivers out and announcing her as the host of the new 'Late Show'. Everything went according to Diller's plans. He caused great momentum and excitement in the media for this 'new' fourth network coming to television in a matter of months and all eyes were on FOX (not ABC, CBS, or NBC). It was a game of chess played very well.

So was NBC and Carson going to battle the new players of Diller and FOX network with the announcement of Rivers being host ? Was NBC going to criticize FOX for going after 'their' late night talent ? Of course not - they were going to go after Rivers herself, because she was a woman who was now playing ball in a man's world. (She broke many glass ceilings with the announcement she was getting her own late night gig). They wanted to teach Rivers - not Diller or FOX - a lesson, and put her in her place.

Joan Rivers was the theater critic for the Beverly Hills Courier. Here she is with Ben Brantley of NYTs and Peter Marks WaPo reviewing the 2013 season. It's charming/hilarious.

R4 She did make jokes about his suicide - as soon as she went back on the road. She had to 'reinvent' herself and her routine because now she was a widow. She couldn't do her marriage jokes any more - her life had changed. And as she said in interviews, in the beginning (c.1989) she she had to 'remove the elephant from the room rather quickly' and address the suicide up front. This way she could continue with her show and everyone could exhale. Eventually, as years went on, she removed it from the act.

[quote]People assume all Jews know each other, just as all Gays know each other.

And the same with Blacks.

I remember when Donna Summer made her very first appearance on "Oprah" in 1999, promoting her VH1 "Divas" special. The two had never met. Oprah addressed this when Summer first took her seat - letting her audience know that this was the very first time they were meeting, despite all the popular belief that they had known each other forever, but Oprah never had her on her show. Summer acknowledged the same thing - people she knew assumed she and Oprah had been friends forever.

Oprah said upfront that it was a false assumption that 'all black people know each other'. She said she faced that all her life, and Summer acknowledged the same experience.

R19 = Johnny Carson from the grave.

[quote]She walked out of an interview for no reason claiming the woman interviewing her was being negative. She wasn't. It was bizarre.

For no reason ? She walked out for no reason ? LOL ! Let me refresh your memory...

It was a Sunday afternoon interview on CNN with Fredricka Whitfield about six weeks before Rivers died. Rivers was there for one reason only - to discuss the new release of her latest humor book, 'Diary of a Mad Diva'. Rivers was on many shows prior to this interview, promoting this book and doing fun interviews with the talk show hosts - focused on this book.

Fredricka Whitfield decided she'd turn the scheduled 'lighthearted' interview into a serious, in-depth interview about Rivers drawing criticism by PETA for wearing a jacket with 'fur trim' in a photograph. Rivers, of course, was caught off-guard and stunned. As she pointed out to FW - she agreed to the interview to discuss the new book and the book's contents, not to defend herself to PETA over a photograph. Whitfield - idiot that she is - kept pushing the PETA criticism and was 'giving Rivers' a chance to defend herself, rather than change course and discuss the book. Rivers made it clear she had no interest in discussing the PETA criticism, and wanted to discuss the book since that was why she was booked for the interview. Whitfield continued pushing the PETA criticism, ignoring her book. She was looking for a 'gotcha moment'.

At that point, Rivers told Whitfield she was the wrong person to conduct this interview. She pointed to the fact that Whitfield was not skilled in interviewing a comic, nor in discussing a humorous book. She accused FW and CNN of wasting her time (she later said it was a choice between CNN and another cable network that Sunday, and her team chose CNN). She took off her microphone, got up from the desk and walked off. Whitfield looked stunned, and kept asking 'Did she really leave ?' She had about five more minutes of dead air to now fill for the segment, and she didn't know what to do with this catastrophe she caused.

This was talked about on social media sites as well as other talk shows for days following (and two months later after Rivers' death). EVERYONE agreed with what Rivers did, and said FW was completely wrong and out of her league. Rivers (and her PR people) had booked this interview for one reason only - to discuss her book. FW wasn't prepared for the interview, and decided to go with a 'gotcha' interview. It completely backfired on CNN and Whitfield. She was left with her mouth agape asking, "Did this really happen just now ?" Yes, it did Freddie - and it was all your fault.

Regardless of what Rivers said about the Tonight Show, she made the decisions herself and tried to play a victim after. If the show was a hit, she wouldn't have had that angle. The Late Show ironically found their host with Arsenio Hall, who was a co-host before they upped him to host. Once they realized what they had, it was too late.

As for Rivers' veracity, she's a habitual liar. Even her agent and assistant said you can't believe anything she said. This was after she claimed she had an affair with Carson.

Yes, R50, Joan was a cunt.

R50 I recall that Joan asked Whitfield if she was wearing leather shoes (i.e., from a killed animal) to try to get FW to stop the line of questioning, but FW ignored it and kept going.

I am just glad Joan left Melissa enough money that she doesn’t need to appear on our television screens anymore.

{quote}. This was after she claimed she had an affair with Carson.

R51 Interesting. Joan also said more than once that Johnny was a very private man when the cameras were off and sometimes didn’t even speak with her during commercial breaks. Other guests have said that about Johnny, too.

You know you’re an advanced eldergay when you can no longer remember to use [] not {} around the word “quote.”

R55, Joan also claimed she had an affair with JFK and Robert Mitchum. About the Carson story:

“It never happened,” said Dorothy Melvin, Rivers’ longtime manager. “Joan would seize any chance, especially in her later years, to get publicity. Johnny was dead, and nobody would refute it. Joan wanted to be talked about, so she said outrageous things.”

Those who knew both parties were equally incredulous. “Never happened,” Shelly Schultz said firmly. “The very idea that she said that—it’s all about self-aggrandizement. And to discredit him, maybe.

Rivers’ friends were equally dubious. “I know she didn’t. It just wasn’t in the equation,” said Robert Higdon, a longtime confidant. “She’s a comedian. Living inside her head—it must have been a difficult place to be. It just never stopped. She would say these things all the time, and it got to the point where I would just disregard it.” Higdon found her boast about Mitchum equally implausible. “One day she called me up and said, ‘Is Robert Mitchum dead? I just said on the radio that I slept with him,’” Higdon recalled. “She said, ‘If he’s dead it’s okay, but if he’s alive it could cause some problems.’ I said, ‘The next thing you’ll tell me is you slept with John F. Kennedy!’ She said, ‘I did. I just never told you.’”

R55, Johnny Carson was a miserable drunken comedian. Is this news to you?

For those who forgot.

R58, with parenting skills on par with Bing Crosby.