Anyone watching Cobra Kai Season 6?

I guess not.

OP, I'm a HUGE "Cobra Kai" stan! I wasn't even that big a fan of the movies, and I had no idea the show even existed until it moved over to Netflix, but I'm truly not kidding that it was one of the ONLY true great things I discovered in 2020! Happy to nerd out over it.

I watched S6 (part one) in under 24 hours. I was worried they'd run out of material by now – S5 was definitely getting too far off the rails – but aside from the one filler episode where Johnny hosts a sleepover at Devon's house, I thought it was great all around, with VASTLY better fights this season.

And the cliffhanger!! Did NOT see that coming!!! (and I usually see this shit a mile away)

R2 Oh, that's great -- now I'm interested in seeing it. I actually cancelled Netflix a while ago since I never watched it any more. I was never a big fan of the movies, either--I actually only ever saw the first one, since I don't like sequels a lot. I have enjoyed the series a lot so I will have to start watching it again.

I never saw any sequel beyond the first, and that was all back in middle school for me. I know Hilary Swank was in a third one (fourth movie in the series), and there's been talk ever since the reboot started that she'd cameo in it – most of the main actors from the original movies have shown up at some point, including Elisabeth Shue; Swank is the last holdout – so there is yet again talk of her showing up in one of the next two parts.

The show is a comedy in quite a few ways, but like "The Bear," it has a lot of drama mixed on (but not "Bear"-level drama, thankfully). Focusing a reboot on Johnny, the former himbo villain played by a talented actor who's been a good sport about being an '80s cliche (rich blond high school douche, perhaps best epitomized by James Spader in "Pretty in Pink"), was both brilliant and a great way to look at how the original wasn't exactly "progressive." (The entire cast was white aside from Mr. Miyagi, who was played by an American actor doing a not-great "cliche Japanese" accent.)

I truly do not know how Ralph Macchio looks THAT good in his 60s!

Maybe not a lot of non-white kids were doing Karate in that part of the Valley in the '80s.

Apparently they saw a lot of actors for Miyagi and Macchio himself questioned the choice of Pat Morita, originally. But did the actor playing Mr. Miyagi really have to come from Japan, originally, just because the character did?

Pat Morita was born in California.

Yeah, but who cares? Are you saying that if a character is born in Japan only Japanese actors born in Japan can play that character?

No, R5, it's entirely due to the fact that Hollywood largely only cast white people back in the '80s (and really more like into the 21st century). Pick any given iconic movie from the '80s, and aside from exceptions like Eddie Murphy, casting directors for small (or smaller) roles chose white actors by default. The obvious exception is for "ethnic" roles, but many of them – *definitely* including Mr. Miyagi – were rooted in stereotypes that would be completely unacceptable today. Pick any given John Hughes movie as an example, and "Sixteen Candles" still has one of the most offensive Asian stereotypes in modern film history. Even "90210" – which, perhaps surprisingly, debuted only six years after "The Karate Kid" – depicted a nearly all-white Beverly Hills, and even back *then* it was only about half-white (unlike the show, IRL Beverly Hills has a large Persian population, along with dozens of other ethnicities).

Pat Morita's best-known role aside from "The Karate Kid" was on "Happy Days," which may be the most Americana-specific TV shows to ever become a huge hit. For Mr. Miyagi, he used a decidedly stereotypical Japanese accent, never mind his near-complete lack of actual Japanese mannerisms. It's kinda "cringe" in the same way as Jar Jar Binks' accent, albeit much less extreme and less noticed at the time, and even when used by people of Japanese heritage, it's now viewed as racist. Anyway, no one's arguing that only native Japanese people should accept roles as such, but as has been argued quite well on "Cobra Kai" itself, martial arts are in no way specific solely to Japan – which, ironically, is a stereotype that the first movies created! (following in Bruce Lee's footsteps) Same with karate being the "only" martial art of note, at a time long before MMA became a thing.

Finally, karate wasn't a "thing" in the US until the kung fu movies of the '70s had gained considerable popularity, and then "The Karate Kid" itself built on the stereotype of karate being the "primary" martial art. Taekwondo, jiu-jitsu, etc. didn't start gaining popularity until the late '90s, partially due to the stereotypes created by "The Karate Kid" (and it was "The Matrix" that popularized martial arts in general, despite one of Neo's most famous lines being his surprise that, "I know kung fu!").

Anyway, the series has both embraced and owned its original stereotypes, and Johnny Lawrence is in some ways akin to Archie Bunker in terms of being set in his ways (even if he's not openly racist per se). His ignorance of the internet is obviously over the top – as shown in the first or second season, he'd never previously used the internet! (or heard of Google or Facebook) – and his son Robby is one of the surprisingly few young white male characters who's anything other than a total asshole and/or villain. OTOH Miguel – established early on as having Ecuadorian roots – is basically his adoptive son, and Johnny & Miguel's mom are about to have a baby. Robby also "has" to be white, since he was conceived when Johnny was still a retrograde degenerate.

Back in the 80s, it was only 40 years after WWII and many WWII vets were still alive. My mother said she still didn't always feel comfortable with people from Japan because of the war. This is probably very hard to understand, now. Not based on the fact of their race, but because they were enemies during the war, were seen to have attacked us, and their soldiers committed atrocities against American POWs, etc.

As for 90210 being an all-white cast (though after a while they added ethnic characters) I suppose this was just the accepted way to appeal to a the majority-white audience in the time period. It was racially insensitive rather than overtly racist, because most of us never even thought about it. Most of the shows were like this.

A fact is I grew up in an all-white neighborhood, except for a family that was Chinese-American, and a family where the dad was white and the mom was Korean. This was in the 1960s. As far as I know, the true story of this could not be filmed as a TV series because there probably would have to be black characters for the TV series to be green-lit. That seems strange because it would not be depicting reality.

But anyhow I thought we could talk about the new season of Cobra Kai.

[quote]As for 90210 being an all-white cast (though after a while they added ethnic characters) I suppose this was just the accepted way to appeal to a the majority-white audience in the time period. It was racially insensitive rather than overtly racist, because most of us never even thought about it. Most of the shows were like this.

Yes, most Hollywood productions were similar, but that doesn't somehow excuse it. (And "90210" only had "ethnic" people as side characters. Not sure if Andrea marrying a Hispanic guy helped at all.)

[quote]A fact is I grew up in an all-white neighborhood, except for a family that was Chinese-American, and a family where the dad was white and the mom was Korean. This was in the 1960s. As far as I know, the true story of this could not be filmed as a TV series because there probably would have to be black characters for the TV series to be green-lit.

Considering Hollywood wouldn't even let married couple share the same bed onscreen until not far before 1960, or let characters use the word "pregnant," I'd agree that it was definitely fucked up. OTOH it's not like non-white people were *never* cast. Cicely Tyson played the first Black female lead character on TV in 1962 IIRC, and Diahann Carroll of course did "Julia" later in the decade. (Also, "Star Trek" was obviously an outlier in this respect.)

Not clear what any of this has to do with "Cobra Kai," however.,

Trailer for Part 2 just dropped. Looks like they actually filmed it in Barcelona! (I figured they faked it, based on the Part 1 finale.)

We never talked about Cobra Kai.

What We Talk About When We Talk About Cobra Kai

I'll talk: HOLY SHIT was that finale epic! I thought the past two seasons sucked, but this one truly is going out with a bang. Tragically, the stunningly beautiful Kwon died in a suitably over-the-top fashion. It also had the best of the show's fighting sequences to date by a country mile, in particular (and obviously) the Sekai Taikai. Robby's double-kick taking out Kwon and the other Korean guy was badass! (To use the show's parlance.) OTOH Samantha is surprisingly subpar in her fighting scenes, and I'm wondering if it's the 20 pounds she gained during the Hollywood strikes that's causing it.

I honestly can't imagine how they have enough material for five more shows, unless somehow the Sekai Taikai ends up being completed because "Kwon would've wanted it that way" or something, and we'll still be seeing more karate. (This seems like the most probable outcome. The storyline of Samantha helping Axel with his abusive coach needs to be resolved, as does Mr. Miyagi apparently killing someone in the ring 70 years prior.)

The final episodes drop on February 13 btw.

Thank you!

I guess Carmen and Johnny had to get married because William Zabka is very religious and didn't want them to have an illegitimate baby.

Martin Kove used to do porn. Someone posted clips here years ago.

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Huh, didn't know this thread was still alive. I've seen the whole thing and would definitely argue they stuck the landing. I'm amazed they managed to keep EVERYTHING about part 3 secret until 10 days before it aired, and even then it was only generalized.

And yet they left a few plot threads dangling. I have to wonder if the plan at the beginning of this season was to introduce Hilary Swank's character from "The Next Karate Kid": it was the movie that focused on Mr. Miyagi's war history, including his real name, and would've been a good segue into Daniel's investigation into his past. (That plotline seemed to be practically abandoned for most of the third part, and was NOT helped by that dream sequence with a creepy-ass CG Miyagi!) The final Kreese/Silver confrontation was both abrupt and, weirdly, not even mentioned by any other characters, despite the explosion of a huge yacht off the L.A. coast presumably being major news.

And while it involved a total fuckload of plot contrivances to get there, the show ended where it needed to end: with Johnny back running Cobra Kai – the RIGHT way, with a wholesale redefinition of "no mercy" – and pretty much everything right with all the kids.

Finally, my one complaint about the show has been a general lack of believability about everyone's karate abilities. They consistently "forgot" that Kreese & Silver are supposed to be in their mid 70s and not exactly in realistic fighting shape. Xolo & Tanner were likely the best of the bunch, but it's still absurd that Miguel was able to take down Axel. (I assume it's obvious that he's supposed to be a brunette Drago from "Rocky IV.") Or Johnny vs. Sensei Wolf. (Zabka & Macchio aren't exactly "experts" after age 60, either.)

There are plenty of shows that get the kung fu shit right from the get-go. See, e.g., "Warrior." (Which happens to have an insanely hot lead who has ample nude scenes.)

Kreese sacrificed himself to save Johnny's family. There's a fan theory that Kreese is actually Johnny's father.

I don't know if any links on the Martin Kove thread still work.

IIRC one of them is Martin getting sucked off by Holly Woodlawn.

It should have ended with Johnny and Daniel in bed.

How did the Silver/Kreese deaths go down? Did terry want to blow himself up? And take kreese with him?

Terry sent his henchman to take care of Carmen and the baby. Kreese had snuck onboard his yacht and overheard Terry's plans. He killed the henchman and after fighting with Terry he threw his cigar in a puddle of gas killing them both.

There was a deleted scene where someone picks up a newspaper with the headline "What happened to Terry Silver?". Clearly it's meant to be Kreese but I think going out the way he did was the right call.

I find Martin Cove singularly unattractive.

Even young Martin?

I never watched it because I've always believed it was simply an inversion of the movies where Daniel is now the villain and Johnny is the hero wronged all those years ago.

It's even played into the argument made by Barney on HIMYM about Johnny being the hero of the movies when William Zabka guest starred.

And yes, I'd still do William Zabka.

Was that Ralph Macchio's daughter playing his niece?

Yes, she looks like Ralph in drag.

Johnny had it rough. He never knew his real father, his stepfather was a prick, and his only role model was Kreese.

Johnny and Kreese in their emotional final scene.

R30 Yeah, sorry.

video of cast saying thanks

Sorry, that didn't work.

try this instead

On the Cagney & Lacey set Tyne Daly was often mistaken for Martin Kove.

Macchio is already working on a film sequel.

How old is Daniel supposed to be on the show, anyway? He has two teenage children, but Ralph was older than his character in The Karate Kid. So now he desperately tries to look in his young 50s when he's 63.

He was, like 23 in The Karate Kid, playing a 16 year old.

In the show's timeline it's 2020 so Johnny and Daniel are 53. The actor who plays Terry Silver is actually younger than Ralph.

I thought they were going to make that Hawk boy and his nerdy friend come out as a gay couple. They certainly seemed like more than BFFs.

^Although he's playing a man in his 70s.

R44 That's interesting. That guy always did look young, too.

Ralph was unusually young looking at one time. In The Outsiders he was supposed to be 16, looking 14. I think that was a year before Karate Kid, and he was in his 20s. It kind of looks like he and Zabka have had little nips or tucks at this point.

I really like listening to William Zabka. I mean he has a very nice voice. I find him attractive (more so than when he was a kid). When I first saw the film, I thought (and for many years after) that he was one of the Van Patten brothers.

[quote]How old is Daniel supposed to be on the show, anyway? He has two teenage children, but Ralph was older than his character in The Karate Kid. So now he desperately tries to look in his young 50s when he's 63.

I'm not following this line of thought.

William is very religious and married late in life. Hopefully he's not a MAGAT.

He got married when he was 43.

That's late for a first marriage.

No, it is, I was just providing the info.

But why does marrying late make anyone MAGA?

It's the Christianity that makes one a suspected MAGAT.

Please don't do that. It's like everyone who was a lefty at one time was suspected of being a Communist.

Not a single gay boy on this show. I call foul!

I think Johnny and Daniel ended many a training session by fucking in the dojo.

[quote]I never watched it because I've always believed it was simply an inversion of the movies where Daniel is now the villain and Johnny is the hero wronged all those years ago.

Curiously, that's also the primary argument for why it IS worth watching. Yes, I know the retcon of sorts of "Daniel the villain and Johnny the poor kid taken out with an illegal kick" bit has been ongoing for 40 years, but going from having a few inside-baseball references about it on "How I Met Your Mother" to not only a full-fledged series – but one of Netflix's top performers to date, and THE top performer on the basis of budget (always low) – is another thing entirely.

Obviously antihero stories are nothing new, nor are ones focused on villains (like, say, "Joker" or "The Penguin"), but this bizarre AF premise – a series based around an actor few under 50 would likely know, and one who played a basically cliche-'80s "hot blond jock" villain, also seen in [insert any given John Hughes movie], focused on the "Ace Degenerate" – absolutely should NOT have worked. But it did.

[quote]Macchio is already working on a film sequel.

Sort of. Judging from the trailer, it sounds more focused on Jackie Chan, who's reprising his character from "The Karate Kid" reboot with Jaden-with-the-slapdaddy-Smith, and doesn't involve anything from "Cobra Kai." It's also set almost entirely in NYC.

Not that one. Ralph said in two or three years he wants a film sequel to Cobra Kai.

This has really been an amazing career resurgence for Ralph Macchio and for (virtually unknown outside of 80s movies) William Zabka. I don't know about the background of the show but I think they two of them were behind it all.

*the

[quote]Not that one. Ralph said in two or three years he wants a film sequel to Cobra Kai.

Really? Huh. Must've missed that. I actually disagree with the idea: 6.5 seasons was sufficient to cover basically every variety of plot twist, and it was clearly evident in S5 that the show was past its prime, though they managed to bounce back well for the end.

Also guessing that its prospects will depend on how well the Jackie Chan one does this spring. (And btw they've at least clarified that the Chan movie takes place within the same Miyagi-verse as CK, but I don't think anyone but Daniel is included in it.)

Amazing they managed to get most of The Karate Kid alums into Cobra Kai. Except Hillary Swank, what's her problem?

I can't find the quote but Ralp said he and William reunited at Pat Morita 's memorial service. Ralph noticed his smile and it sounded like he was cruising William.

By smile he meant ass.

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