IT'S OVER!

It' not gonna be Newsom, for fuck sake. Black Dems will be pissed if any one white person goes over Kamala.

Black Dems should have made their case for Kamala two weeks ago instead of clinging to Biden. They bet poorly.

r3 Newsom didn't even run in the 2020 primary, unlike Kamala.

Good article, summing up everything in a nutshell.

Biden should resign as President too, so Kamala can be sworn in right now.

I’m good with Kamala. She will be sharper than DJT in a debate.

It should be Whitmer.

Biden should resign because if he remains in office his competency will be an issue for the new candidate. This is why Kamala cannot be the nominee. She vouched for him too many times. It has to be from outside the administration.

Halting speech and arthritic movement does not make one "incompetent." Joe continues to do a bang-up job as president, he's just ill-equipped to campaign for the presidency.

The only option is Kamala

r10 It would be completely ridiculous – and unforgivable to a certain voting block – to trash the sitting VP like that for no reason whatsoever. She vouched for him because they're on the ticket together. Did you expect her to go behind his back, call a presser, and declare him incompetent?

If it’s going to be Kamala we’d be better off if we stop attacking Biden and just let him run.

Has anyone actually has signaled that they want the nomination, other than Joe or Kamala? People keep talking about Michelle Obama, even though she has never expressed any interest. Whoever it is has to be totally in it to win it or there's no point in changing a thing.

[quote] She vouched for him too many times.

I don't think anyone would expect a VP to publicly trash the President for months on end. And all they have to say is that his decline was very sudden and that she privately expressed her concerns behind the scenes.

[quote]Has anyone actually has signaled that they want the nomination, other than Joe or Kamala?

No. Whitmer's out and Newsom hasn't said anything.

We can kidnap her and send her to the White House.

I'm so sorry to hear this. If only he were even 5 years younger. He has been by far the best president of my lifetime (and I'm old) and I don't want him to step down, but I don't see how he can continue.

Another thing, all these Democrats now calling for him to step down - where've they BEEN?!? And some of them like Obama have just fundraising for Biden, which makes Obama look like a total fraud

It's very dispiriting. I do like Kamala very much and 4 years ago she was higher on my list than Joe.

[quote]Biden should resign because if he remains in office his competency will be an issue for the new candidate.

BIden has done a fantastic job. What he needs is someone who can say so, vigorously, over and over, because he can't.

If Kamala announced she had no interest in running she would save the party. I assume there’s little chance of that. Ambition, you know.

[quote] And all they have to say is that his decline was very sudden and that she privately expressed her concerns behind the scenes

Except his decline was not sudden. It was gradual but hidden for the purpose of deception by the little cabal running the White House.

If he had stepped down in April or May, they could have pulled that. There would have been no shame. Nobody would have even know about how fucked up the Biden White House is.

Come on ! I'm tanned, rested, ready!

r21 This is her one and only shot in life to win the presidency, she knows she's not winning the 2028 primary. So yeah, her dropping out is not happening.

Biden or Kamala

Lose/Lose proposition

Given the poll ratings and recent "events", gaining the nomination post-Biden has become a poisoned chalice. It seems highly unlikely that key players like Whitmer would want to blow their chances in '24 when they can stage a much better run in '28. That leaves Kamala as the only likely/viable option. Her primary job then becomes saving the Senate from a defeat that would give Trump a free reign (of terror).

[quote] Nobody would have even know about how fucked up the Biden White House is.

Which is why it's hilarious when the justification for sticking with Biden is that he'll surround himself with good people. In reality, he's surrounded himself with yes men and opportunists. Sound familiar?

R24: Either she becomes the 2024 default nominee or she prays for a miracle that Biden is re-elected.

This should have been handled a year ago. This is what happens when the party has weak and ineffectual leadership.

If a white woman couldn't win over Dump…

[quote]Black Dems will be pissed if any one white person goes over Kamala.

This morning, Sunny Hostin implied that black women were going to sit out of the election if Kamala isn't chosen.

Kamala got 0% of the black vote when she was running for President in 2020. I think would be shitty if she got passed over, and people would be pissed, but whole groups of people protesting and staying home because of it is not likely.

She doesn't have that kind of support, no matter how hard her fangurls in the media try to make it seem.

r9 I know it's not happening, but yeah, it would have been such a boss move for Biden to make the announcement during Trump's nomination speech and ruin that moment for him.

I'll just say this: whoever gets chosen and DOESN'T pull this off should probably just move to a remote island somewhere because they're fucking done in America, politically and otherwise. Hillary was forgiven because it was a fluke election, but another Hillary will not be tolerated.

Fine, OP, et. al, run Biden out, run Kamala out.

But you and everyone else piling on Biden should WATCH and LISTEN to this interview. I was actually shocked that Jose Diaz-Balart and Sen. Padilla came so hard against the turn turncoats in the Democratic Party.

So I'm just going to leave this here, and see myself out. Because this shit makes me so angry, it makes me happy I don't have children, and neither do my siblings. If Biden goes down, the US, Europe, and teetering democracies looking to the US for guidance and help--all go down.

r34 Most here aren't happy about this, but the writing really seems to be on the wall now. I totally get your anger, he's been a wonderful president.

Are black women really so racist they wouldn’t vote for a white candidate?

Are white people really that racist that they wouldn't vote for a black woman?

Yes, r36.

[quote] If Biden goes down, the US, Europe, and teetering democracies looking to the US for guidance and help--all go down.

[bold]And whose fault is that? Are you going to blame Trump now for Biden's selfish, delusional decisions?[/bold]

Both Lyndon Johnson and Harry Truman declined the incumbent nomination when it became clear that they would struggle to be reelected. Biden puts himself before everybody else. You have elected the exact person you accused Trump of being.

[quote]You have elected the exact person you accused Trump of being.

Oh my god, shut the fuck up already, they're not even in the same galaxy. Old person has a difficulty accepting that his cognitive faculties are slipping, news at eleven.

This is bullshit because there is no mention of who the candidate would be, everyone knows Harris can’t win. So I call bullshit on this whole narrative. If “top democrats” want Biden to leave they’d tell journis who will replace him. It’s part of the “access” the media craves…to get answers to such questions. No top democrat would say “Biden is definitely stepping down” without saying “And so-and-so will be the candidate.”

I repeat - everyone knows Harris will lose. Why would top democrats demand Biden step down when they know his replacement can’t win?

This is fucking bullshit.

If it's bullshit, then why isn't anyone coming out and roundly denouncing it?

Where's Barack, or the Clintons (who never miss a good PR opportunity)? You don't even see Michelle anywhere.

[quote]I repeat - everyone knows Harris will lose. Why would top democrats demand Biden step down when they know his replacement can’t win?

[bold]Because Biden has become so unpopular his is dragging down the ticket to the point where any other Democrat will do better than him if they are on the ballot, and it is necessary to keep at least one house of Congress in Democratic hands to ensure Trump does not get elected with near-imperial powers..[/bold]

How many times do you have to be told this?

Are you autistic or something?

[quote]I repeat - everyone knows Harris will lose.

Internal polling apparently says she's doing just as well against Trump as Biden. So I don't understand what kind of hard data you're repeating there.

[quote] Old person has a difficulty accepting that his cognitive faculties are slipping, news at eleven

But enough about yourself.

[quote]If “top democrats” want Biden to leave they’d tell journis who will replace him. It’s part of the “access” the media craves…to get answers to such questions.

Pretty sure those conversations are taking palce as I type. You can only have those in a severely limited way before Biden decides to step down. If he does, the replacement will be named in the same breath as well.

The problem isn’t Democrats switching their vote to Trump, the problem is people staying at home. Kamala is a profoundly uncharismatic candidate. It has nothing to do with her color. She’s dull.

[quote] Internal polling apparently says she's doing just as well against Trump as Biden.

Exactly. She’ll lose.

[quote]She’s dull.

So was Biden. Most Dems in 2020 voted AGAINST Trump, as opposed to FOR Biden. That's more than enough motivation for voters, no charisma needed.

I hate to write this, the greatest thing Biden can do........is die in his sleep. (Peacefully!!!).

It might be the only thing that could save this country's Democracy.

With all his accomplishments, he would go down as one of the greatest Presidents in US history!;

and Kamala would get the chance to prove herself before the election takes place.

At least if biden resigns now he will go down in history as being responsible for the first female president of the US. She will go down as the first female potus.

I doubt it makes any difference who runs as far as 2024. This is not our year. But it might make a difference for party unity and 2028.

Anyone that thinks biden can drop out and the Dems dump Harris and then have even the smallest chance to win are way way off the mark. The Dems are losing black support now dumping her is moronic. Even if you are giving up on the WH in 2024 and thinking of 2028.

Without the abortion issue and PoC there is no Democratic Party that will win anything.

Gay white liberals are not going to carry the dem party to victory anywhere except in West Hollywood.

Goodbye America.

[quote] It should be Whitmer.

Honey, neither Kamala nor Big Gretch has a penis so what does it matter? A woman will lose. Because men hate women, and most women hate women, too.

[quote]"and about 1 percent of Biden voters would switch to Trump if the president is no longer on the ticket."

No ice cream for Joe if he quits.

R51

Goodbye your america.

Lots of Americans maybe or nearly half the country think they are finally reclaiming america. Down with the liberal open border crime supporting trans supporters of children and Up With America.

Depends where you sit how you see this. I understand losing. It happens. It’s hard but I understand the other guys sometimes win.

On DL there were posters making fun of or attacking the dead fireman who died protecting his family. Americans hate scum like those posters. It’s not always the other guys fault you lose,

I know it won't happen, but I wish Biden would give a gracious, heartfelt speech tonight, an hour before Trump's nomination speech, announcing that he's dropping out. Not only would it interrupt the GOP convention, but it would throw Trump into a rage and a panic because you know that Trump's speech will be nothing but nasty attacks against Biden.

I agree, r56.

[quote] So was Biden. Most Dems in 2020 voted AGAINST Trump, as opposed to FOR Biden. That's more than enough motivation for voters, no charisma needed.

That’s where Hillary went wrong. It’s not enough to run on “I’m not Trump”.

They’re trying to get us prepared with the Obama leak. My hunch is Biden announces his campaign suspension tomorrow. They’ll give us the weekend to grieve and process.

[quote]With all his accomplishments, he would go down as one of the greatest Presidents in US history!;

No, Biden will go down as one of the worst and most corrupt. He hid his cognitive decline, and rather than prepare a successor to fill in a role he could no longer fill, ceded power to a group of viziers and his power-hungry wife and criminal son. He chose to run for re-election likely knowing he would never be able to fulfill a second term; he used his incumbency to squash all meaningful challenges for the nomination, and then later used the excuse that he won the most primary votes as the reason he should be allowed to stay. He hid his cognitive decline until he was basically forced to participate in an unprecedented pre-convention debate; once his mental deficits were revealed, instead of stepping down he declared war on anyone who challenged him while EVERY OPPORTUNITY WAS GIVEN TO HIM TO MAKE A GRACEFUL EXIT. EVERY OPPORTUNITY.

We are GUARANTEED a Trump Presidency because of Joe Biden. That is his legacy.

[quote] On DL there were posters making fun of or attacking the dead fireman who died protecting his family.

Huh?

Start watching at the 2:45 mark. This is the best conversation about the state of the race and Kamala Harris that you'll see right now. Seriously, you need to watch this.

Some points made in the video:

--Biden's private polling firm did polling last week and found remarkable support for Harris.

--The Congressional Black Caucus have told Joy Reid that they want Harris if Biden pulls out, and will be furious if she's passed over. They have told Joy that "California" is trying to push Harris aside for someone else. They might be talking about California elites wanting Gavin Newsom.

--Rachel Maddow says that a poll came out last week showing a 31 point drop for Biden among black women voters. Harris turns all that around if she's the candidate. Without black women, Democrats will lose in a landslide.

r55 I see the "both sides are exactly the same" troll has found this thread. 🙄

Meanwhile, one side is currently busy suing Whitmer to scrap voter registration sites at VA centers. You know, because they fucking hate it when people vote.

Rachel Maddow is delusional and anyone who watches that network is a cult member.

R62 Someone just posted the polls for both Biden and Harris, and there's ZERO EVIDENCE of a drop off. The polling numbers for both are exactly the same.

Maddow done f'd up.

Kamala televised is speaking now in NC. She would beat trump into the ground as far as speaking abilities.

The best they can hope for is to mitigate the worst of a Trump landslide. Losing with dignity but holding onto some stability within the party would not be the worst outcome. Biden is still the best candidate they have by quite a wide margin. Kamala is CLEARLY not presidential material.

R61.

Too much of a Hail Mary pass to bring Buttigieg into the picture. Once he’s given airtime, you can just feel the MOR Trumptards peeling off and voting for him.

The firefighter didn’t die because he was protecting his family. He died simply because he was in the wrong spot at the wrong time. He wasn’t a hero, he was a poor schmuck.

Haven't a couple of states announced they won't allow a Biden replacement to appear on the ballot?

[quote] Haven't a couple of states announced they won't allow a Biden replacement to appear on the ballot?

No.

The states are obligated to put the nominee's name on the ballot. Right now, there is no nominee, only a presumptive nominee. If Biden drops out and releases his delegates, and the Democrats nominate someone else at the convention, there would be no grounds for any state to challenge it.

Love of America Peaches and Cream and Unity .( he has had time to take the temp of the room and rewrite the speech )

Let’s see after trumps speech if nothing but nasty attacks against Biden as you claim or more lets all come together as a country?

It is a political event so he does have to attack biden. But it’s not going to be a speech of as you said nothing but nasty attacks. Donald is going to try to win new people over.

R71 sign your real name to your post then call that dead fire fighter a schmuck and see how america really feels about you.

[quote] Too much of a Hail Mary pass to bring Buttigieg into the picture.

I'm not sure that Harris-Buttigieg would be a winning ticket (I think there are better options), but if they won, it sure would be fun to watch the MAGAts and the Heritage Foundation types freak out to see a black woman as president and a gay man as VP.

Would Beshear be up for VP? Or does he have bigger ambitions, like Newsom and Whitmer?

R68, where was the fire?

The latest YouGov/Economist* poll (July 13-16): Trump 44% - Harris 39%

* 4th top rated by 538

Pete has no chance. Kamala will pick Shapiro, Beshear or Cooper.

[quote]or Cooper

Who? 👀

Shapiro is Jewish. Left hates Jews. See Hamas supporting protestors

I LOVE Buttigieg, and think he would be a wonderful president. But I don’t want him to run, because I think a gay candidate would lose.

If the democrats can’t come up with a winning candidate, they deserve to lose.

You can never full tell if someone is a winning candidate until after the election. Hillary was a winning candidate as well, until she wasn't. Same for Trump in 2020.

*fully tell

The election only matters in about 7 or 8 swing states with strong majority white populations. Black women who make up 6 or 7% tops of the US population aren’t going to swing those states. I could be wrong. We’ll find out soon enough. And Rachel Maddow has never been right about anything.

Biden pulled a Ruth Bader Ginsburg x100 with his decision to run for reelection. It’s so sad — sources have been saying it seems that the decline really accelerated this past spring, a full year after he declared he was running again back in April 2023.

Obama better fix this mess.

[QUOTE]Are white people really that racist that they wouldn't vote for a black woman?

How long have you been reading DL?

R84

There are 14 swing states currently under water for the Dems not 7.

And some here see losing black women support in order to add two white people to the ticket as not a big deal. Those are the real DL Political Professionals.

Democrats are not going to lose any support we don't choose Kamala Harris as a replacement. That's another ludicrous prognostication informed entirely by the soft racism practiced by most white Dataloungers.

Black people don't have strong feelings about Kamala Harris, with one notable exception, and that is the Black people who reside in California. Who don't like her, for well documented reasons.

Y'all don't know what you're talking about.

R8 I like Whitmer. But, she wouldn't be able to win. Our country is still misogynistic. In many interviews, Whitmer has talked about being a rape victim college. I could see the MAGAts being nasty towards that like they did with E. Jean Carroll.

^^ R90 here. I meant to type "being a rape victim in college".

If we lose after they kick Joe out then I have no sympathy for them

Whitmer went to high school here and the nasty Deplorables on Facebook call her "Stretchin' Gretchen' trying to imply she was slutty. I know because I read local news articles on Facebook and see those kind of comments.

A Kamala Harris and Pete Buttigieg ticket is too much for middle America to handle. A black woman president and an openly gay vice president? If you think the bigots went nuts with Obama in command, just what to they get a load of this pair.

R89

Finally a black DL person who can speak for all black people on this. And they have.

And we should not doubt this because being a newsome supporter ( and a man? ) that would make them so non biased as far as comments on Harris.

And I am sure the gop would not raise the racism charge if Harris was dumped 24/7.

And in other news , surveys not true inside scoop from someone that can speak for all blacks, Trump is already gaining significant black support.

Joe should announce it, live to the nation, tonight right as Trump’s speech begins. All networks would cut away from Trump to cover Joe, and it’d be the biggest story of the summer.

But he’s isolating at the beach house, which has no cameras set up, and he hasn’t asked the networks for time.

Harris isn't going to beat Dump. I like her, but I have no doubt of that. She's like Hillary 2.0. It will be a racist-misogynistic dream for her to run. I really hope the Democratic leadership is not that stupid to elevate her. They have to b e savvier than that, or they will definitely lose.

She needs to gracefully back away, and they need to start over.

I'm expressly not speaking for all Black people. You're an idiot and you're being defensive. Grow up.

[quote] Whitmer went to high school here and the nasty Deplorables on Facebook call her "Stretchin' Gretchen' trying to imply she was slutty. I know because I read local news articles on Facebook and see those kind of comments.

Wait until they hear about the prostitution whores Lauren Boebert, Kimberly Guilfoyle and Melania. Not to mention (for the 100th time) that Trump has had 3 wives, cheated with a porn star and raped young girls with his best bud Jeffrey Epstein?

[quote] Trump is already gaining significant black support.

Trump is gaining Black support because he is presenting a message of self-sufficiency and Black people generally don't want to be associated with the bullshit identity politics that the Democrats are currently pushing.

Putting a Black woman on the ticket just because she is Black is the OPPOSITE of what Black people want. It's white folks who are pushing that nonsense.

I don’t see how they skip over Harris and don’t see them winning with her. Sigh.

R98

“Black people don’t have strong feelings about….”

You sure as fuck are speaking for black people.

If R100 or any other idiot out there thinks Dump is going to win the black vote, I want what you bitches are smoking!

R100 she may be just a black person to you but to many she is the Vice President of the United States. The next one in line.

You know the one that is one heart beat away from being president of the United States and has been so for 4 years.

It may make no difference in the long run as far as 2024 which is likely lost already. But it will impact the future.

Biden was retaliating against Dems who spoke out against him.

[quote] Whitmer went to high school here and the nasty Deplorables on Facebook call her "Stretchin' Gretchen' trying to imply she was slutty. I know because I read local news articles on Facebook and see those kind of comments.

I remember the Strechin Gretchen stuff. My thought was that if she was indeed slutty in high school, then why the fuck should it matter decades later? Also, if the slut stuff is true, why is she the only one to be shamed if her classmates chose to sleep with her/takes two to tango. I also bet those dumb fuck deplorables who are around Whitmer's age probably weren't squeaky clean teens back in the 80s.

I wish Kamala would do the right thing and step aside temporarily for the good of the party. If she would throw all her weight behind someone in the party, then still be the VP candidate this time around, or be super involved in the next administration, *then* run for President, I think we could keep the black and/or women vote. She could say she wants more experience or it just feels too soon. I mean, Biden got his "turn" all these years later, so she has plenty of time.

[quote]I know it won't happen, but I wish Biden would give a gracious, heartfelt speech tonight, an hour before Trump's nomination speech, announcing that he's dropping out. Not only would it interrupt the GOP convention, but it would throw Trump into a rage and a panic because you know that Trump's speech will be nothing but nasty attacks against Biden.

Biden should resign as President, so Harris can be sworn in just before tonight’s convention starts and wipe Dump right off the news cycle.

r107 But that makes no sense. The whole purpose of the VP is to step in if the president is no longer capable. The question isn't why Kamala, but why *not* her. It's not like anyone else ran in this primary and would as such have greater legitimacy than her.

[quote]She could say she wants more experience or it just feels too soon.

As opposed to Whitmer and Newsom, who have never held national office? I'm just curious as to which replacement candidate you propose.

Too bad Obama can’t run again.

It would be worth it just to see Sunny Hostin’s head explode if Kamala was passed over.

[quote]And Rachel Maddow has never been right about anything.

This.

I love Joe. I love him. He's the best president in my lifetime.

But this is now over and done. The media and masses have turned on him. And while I see the reasoning, I will go to my deathbed saying it was the wrong move. We should have backed him. No matter what. I just wish he would never have done that fucking debate. He wins if he just refuses to debate.

Kamala has no shot against Trump. We all know this. And there's really no one waiting in the wings. Not to mention the whole money/campaign situation.

It's not like Biden can suddenly became fluent and spry again. So it's over.

Harris/Beshear is the strongest ticket.

R109, it has been agreed upon that governors are the ones best suited to be president due to how much they are responsible for.

R109, honestly, I don't know. I just know that our best bet may be someone not well known so there is little time for the right to vilify them. Trump and his ilk have made that the cornerstone of their campaign. "Sleepy Joe." Kamala's laugh, etc. We need the element of surprise. In this case, no track record is the best record.

[quote] Kamala has no shot against Trump. We all know this. And there's really no one waiting in the wings. Not to mention the whole money/campaign situation.

If Democrats were smart, they’d realize that they have to get over identity politics. It’s destroyed them.

R114, I’m still available.

Obama can run and might make a surprising and good choice as VP for Harris. Talk about excitement.

Racists on the right and racists on the left would have their racists heads explode with not one but two black females on the ticket,

It would be a historic ticket.

[quote] Obama can run and might make a surprising and good choice as VP for Harris.

What a ludicrous, nonsensical proposition.

R105 I wonder if Haley "Creepy Dollface" Stevens was sicced on Hillary Scholten.

[quote] I just wish he would never have done that fucking debate. He wins if he just refuses to debate.

What an evil little undemocratic cunt you are.

Bidenists are at their heart autocrats, contemptuous of democracy and transparency, and drunk on strongman imagery and vapid exhibitions of power.

In other words, they are blue MAGA.

[quote] I think a gay candidate would lose.

People also thought middle America would never vote for a black guy named Barack Hussein Obama but they did because they liked his message. Pete Buttigieg is extremely talented at speaking to middle America. That's why his Fox News town hall drew applause from the audience and why he did so well in Iowa. I think he'd disembowel Vance at a VP debate in a way that few other politicians would be able to pull off.

[quote] Obama can run and might make a surprising and good choice as VP for Harris.

He can’t run. The VP cannot have been a president who served 2 terms. If she croaks, he would be next in line and he has already served 2 terms before. Also, stop being stupid.

R116

According to 116

The Dems need to find people no one knows so their records can’t be checked and we can sneak them into the WH before anyone figures out who they are and attacks their record.

Another democrat political professional heard from. One who has a lot of faith in the quality of democrats who might run for political office.

This is the Democratic Party of 2024 :-)

[quote]Obama can run and might make a surprising and good choice as VP for Harris.

Former presidents don't take up lesser positions in the government once they're out of office, either in America or anywhere else in the world. It's just not done, it's too weird.

R12

Does anyone on DL actually read a post before responding and disagreeing? It does not appear so in your case.

Mrs Obama has never been president of the United States.

[quote] Mrs Obama has never been president of the United States.

And, R127? She has stated categorically she is NOT running.

A big factor is who would have access to the Biden-Harris campaign money.

Sorry it’s R126 and R124

Read the posts. Then respond to the posts, JHC it’s not that hard if you are going to respond.

Most of the money is gone.

Most of the money is not gone, R131, though $90 million has been frozen.

The usual hive of braintrusts her on DL.

If Biden steps down, the nominee has to be Kamala Harris. If it's not, the black population will walk out of the convention or simply stay home, which would be another disaster for many years to come.

It won't be Gavin Newson, although he would crush Trump in a debate. However, the top Democratic presidential candidates have a felling the Dems will lose in 2024. Newson, Whitmer and others don't want to be on the losing side and cynically are holding their candidacy until 2028.

The entire party should be giving it everything they've got to win in 2024, but that's not what is happening.

R126, John Quincy Adams returned to serve in the House of Representatives after he was President.

Oh my God, r125, just stop it. The right ran Donald Trump, a man with absolutely no track record at all. I just want the left to run a candidate that the right hasn't given a nasty nick-name to a la "Joe and the Ho."

R126, In 1980, Reagan seriously considered naming former President Ford as his VP.

Oh, I love him to pieces, but sighing in relief that he’s stepping aside. He’ll go down in history as one of our greatest presidents. And we might actually keep having presidents if he steps down and we beat that motherfucker.

R133. If they want a winning black female candidate, nominate Michelle Obama for 2024. It's the surefire way for the Dems to win and wipe Trump off the map. But Michelle Obama won't do it. She doesn't want it. Sad.

[quote] If Biden steps down, the nominee has to be Kamala Harris. If it's not, the black population will walk out of the convention or simply stay home, which would be another disaster for many years to come.

Bull. Shit. R133, you think the entire black voting bloc of America would sit on their hands and not vote and let Dump in just because of Harris?

Again--what a sea of braintrusts we have here.

A Harris/Beshear ticket would beat Trump. Her VP will be a white male, period. That does not include Pete because he's gay. Beshear, Mark Kelly, or Roy Cooper are the best options. It will come down to who wants the job. I don't want Kelly because it would most likely cost us a Senate seat and we can't afford to lose any seats.

Independents hate the choices of Trump and Biden. They will vote for anyone other than Trump.

Nominate fucking Obama, POTUS is above the law as we've been told, so who cares that he's already served two terms. Rules are for suckers!

I can't wait to re-read this thread and all these half-assed, idiotic assumptions and speculations on November 6.

R140, Mark Kelly is too odd looking. Optics matter.

No, R141, rules are for everyone but Republicans.

What happens after Trumps second term? he has no heir, Vance is a charisma void.

R137 Joe is not going down as a great president. He is going down as a corrupt president who only cares about himself and doesn't give a shit about the country. just another power-hungry career politician. Jake of the Young Turks said he ran into Biden in a bookstore when he was a senator. He said Joe was looking around to see if anyone recognized him and when Jake walked up to him to say hello, he said that Biden was so self-absorbed that you couldn't get a word in. All he did was talk about himself nonstop.

R139. If you don't think that a significant portion of the black population would sit this one out if Kamala Harris is not nominated, you have not been paying attention.

The entire black population would not stay away, but enough would do so to give Trump a victory. Blacks may not vote for Trump in strong numbers, but there would be a huge drop off in black participation. The Democrats have to also work to keeps its coalition intact...and blacks especially black women are a vital constituent.

R135 I get it you don’t want any democrats with nick names. That sounds reasonable

Butt boy? Clinton the Bitch? Any others with nick names that should not be on the dem ticket?

R102 Thank you. As a Black man, that shit pisses me off. I hate some of the condescending attitudes on here when Black people are brought up in political discussions. Suddenly everyone knows what Black people think or what other people think Black people are thinking. Would it kill you to just ask what are your thoughts on this or that? We aren't a monolith and DO post on DL.

R100 is full of bullshit and is using rhetoric right out of the Republican playbook. Donald Trump isn't going to win a majority of the Black vote or even get a quarter of it. What time in American or Western democratic history have you seen an ethnic minority group with a record of supporting one political party in a two-party system with 85%+ votes in previous elections, only to have a majority realign themselves to the other party in the next election cycle with a candidate like Trump heading the ticket? And if you believe that, provide an example? BS.

Does the black population really consider Kamala black?

She’s a hybrid, as was Obama.

What about a Bernie Sanders/Elizabeth Warren ticket?

I don’t think Harris is the best nominee, but she’s not bad and I think she could win. I think it has to be her, due to being the VP and the need to maximize the black vote. Andy Beshear is the best VP option for her.

🥥🌴

Well, they've pretty much guaranteed a second cheeto term.

I hope they're all happy with themselves.

I'll make this quick.

R146, you're a stupid cunt.

[quote] If you don't think that a significant portion of the black population would sit this one out if Kamala Harris is not nominated, you have not been paying attention.

R147, if you think black people are ao dumb, along the lines of the never Hillays, that they would throw the election to Dump to spite their own party, you really must have a low opinion of the intelligence of black people.

Everybody appears dull in contrast to the village idiot, so nobody will measure up to Trump in that regard. But does that outweigh what village idiot is yelling about in the village square?

It'll be hilarious if Republicans wasted their entire convention attacking Biden, and then he ends up not being the nominee. A total waste of a convention. BTW, ratings for their convention are down sharply from 2016.

R146 = Donald J Trump

Kamala's black female voters will be disappointed when a white guy is picked to run.

And they'll get over it, R159, because eyes on the prize.

Kamala has officially switched from ‘we’ to ‘I’

R158 There is something wrong with you. You are too dumb to debate anyone so you call people names instead.

Everyone needs to stop with the Michelle Obama nonsense. Nobody wants her.

R159

Let me translate that for others as to what that means

Black guys and whites will care not at all if the first black woman and the heir apparent is dumped from the ticket for a white but black women might.

I do believe a few of us white people maybe even a black man or two would be upset as well.

R163 I thought it was Biden no one wants?

I would love to see Mrs Obama on the ticket so it’s hardly nobody. Why the fuck not? We are likely to lose anyway. This would be a long shot but exciting and interesting.. after Joe exciting and interesting might play.

Harris Obama 2024 pass it on

Underscoring what R163 said — anyone bleating about Michelle Obama riding to the rescue is really showing their ass as a clueless person who should stick to lurking on this subject.

Michelle Obama has said a thousand times that she does not ever want to hold any political office whatsoever. End of story. And she never has held any political office.

Yesterday, Kamala said JD Vance would be loyal to Trump, not to the country. Is she guilty of the same re: Biden?

Can they run Mary Trump as Kamala's VP? I'd love to see that.

R167 Trump has shown a propensity to commit crimes and abuse his office in order to reject an election he lost. He has since bitched repeatedly about needing a VP to be "loyal" and help him do it next time.

Call me when Joe Biden does the same thing, and asks his VP to help him.

Michelle Obama said many times she would not run, despite her overwhelming popularity. In fact, there was a recent poll that said she could beat Dump if she were to run. To say nobody wants her is yet another made-up notion of yet another idiot here.

The Michelle Obama troll is just as hopeless as the Gavin Newsom troll and the Condi troll.

It's not happening. It truly, seriously is not.

Go back to building your shrine, nutty!

There are two people mentioning her here, R171. One of them--me--is not a troll. I'm merely correcting whatever fool said "nobody wants her." Her name has, in fact, come up numerous times, which is a ridiculous notion.

A lot of good Michelle Obama's "they go low, we go high" has done us

[quote]A Kamala Harris and Pete Buttigieg ticket is too much for middle America to handle. A black woman president and an openly gay vice president?

Those people are already Trumpeters, so it does not matter. We are talking about swing voters, looking for something different, so it could be a positive. Plus Pete fits that young, smart while male roll, many didnt know he was gay when he ran for president even though he talked about it. Homophobia is like that, if you look and act straight, often you get a pass. But a Yasss Queen, Queer or Trans would definitely take down the ticket.

R122 fuck off.

I didn't want Biden to debate because of his stutter. Not because of his viability as a candidate or president. His impediment makes him the worst debater of all time. Even if it's dumb as fuck to focus on something as unimportant as fucking stutter.

And idiots like you are only concerned with optics. Biden as PROVEN he's a great president. But idiots see him stutter and forget a name and they accuse him of dementia. Also, Biden still wiped the floor with Trump in that debate, even with his horrible fluency.

The people against Biden are the same types of people who would never have elected FDR if they knew he was a cripple. It's beyond a shame.

R169 Joe may try to do the same soon but when he does he will be a civilian living in Delaware that just thinks he is still president.

But you keep reminding people trump is a bad man and I bet you can turn this friggin disaster of an election around in no time.,

R171 was insisting on Biden two days ago. Now no dem is worthy.

R173, that's why Michelle went into depression and gained a tone of weight after that.

She did neither, R177.

A lot of alternative facts on this thread.

Who is replacing him?

They should run another celebrity if they want to beat Dump.

Stop wringing your hands, it will all work out, does not matter who it is. At the end of the day, it's about beating Donald J. Trump. You have one job this election cycle.

[bold] Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who. Vote Blue No Matter Who.

Biden is not a cripple he is becoming senile. To an extent it shocked people that knew him then saw him again recently . It was not just a disaster of a debate .

FDR was brilliant and articulate he just could not walk well.

R175

FDR was 63 when he died.

R180 a celebrity ?

Someone younger than Biden famous with a large loyal following interested in politics and rich enough to self fund and maybe a good dancer ?

I have a suggestion but you know that the Haters here are gonna Hate Hate Hate.

It’s a lost election at least we should have some fun and you know maybe pull,off a miracle

r146 you have to have a big ego to run for President, some may just hide it a little better.

R175 I bet Biden has been lying about his stutter this whole time. He lies about everything. He even lies about how his wife and daughter died!

[quote] Black women who make up 6 or 7% tops of the US population aren’t going to swing those states. I could be wrong. We’ll find out soon enough. And Rachel Maddow has never been right about anything.

Black people (or Black women) can swing Michigan, Georgia and Virgjnia.

I'm seriously trying to wrap my mind around this mythical notion of an "independent voter", so, maybe, someone can help me here. In what shape or form can one consider themselves independent in 2024 after more than 8 years of insanity and authoritarian tendencies on display by the MAGA cult?

My brother was eaten by cannibals.

I was polled today from 1 to 10 how did I like Trump and I said 1 ( the lowest) and they didn't ask me any more questions so I assume it was a Repug poll.

R186, Where was his stutter until just recently? In video footage from 1972 onward, there’s not even a hint of a stutter.

I' already have the silly gash R186 blocked. Just a troll.

R186 is some right wing chatbot.

I'll believe it when he tells the American people. Otherwise, speculation.

Fox News is reporting that Trump’s speech will not mention Biden at all. That’s telling.

"He's a dumb sonofabitch. Really. He doesn't know where the hell he is. Can't find his way off the stage."

[quote]Fox News is reporting that Trump’s speech will not mention Biden at all.

He'll come across as taking the high road, in light of Biden's rapid decline.

[quote]I'm seriously trying to wrap my mind around this mythical notion of an "independent voter", so, maybe, someone can help me here. In what shape or form can one consider themselves independent in 2024 after more than 8 years of insanity and authoritarian tendencies on display by the MAGA cult?

My brother's girlfriend. She thinks both parties are the same. She votes for Jill Stein usually, but is thinking about voting for Kennedy this time. She likes thinking of herself as unpredictable and quirky. She's big on conspiracy theories. She's insufferable.

I always think of those as a pretty marginal population, R198. I always wonder how people like that even make it to adulthood, not getting eaten by wild animals, getting hit by moving vehicles, dying of dental abscesses, etc. On the upside, it seems she never voted for Democrats so, it's no loss.

[quote] Mark Kelly is too odd looking. Optics matter.

Mark Kelly looks a like a shorter/less ugly version of John Fetterman.

Optics do matter in politics and the media. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez doesn't have super model looks. But, compared to many politicians she looks like a beauty queen. The media honed in that and they also pushed her "bartender running for Congress" persona. . In 2018 and 2019, the mainstream media shoved AOC down people's throats via constant TV and magazine exposure. AOC appeared on the cover of Time Magazine in March 2019 only a few months after taking office. There are some Democratic Congresswomen who are much more intelligent and down-to-earth than AOC. is. The media ignores those women because they are either goofy-looking (Haley Stevens, Brittany Peterson) or plain/homely-looking (Elissa Slotkin, Abigail Spanberger). I suspect at some point, AOC will be called out for "pretty privilege' once more people figure out that she is far-left fraud.

So the DL consensus is that the election is over before one vote has been cast. Donald Trump's coming landslide and Republican control of the House and Senate aren't in doubt and can't be stopped. At this point, why bother with a Democratic convention or a presidential candidate because they will lose no matter who it is? Why waste time on trying to get Democrats elected up and down the ticket because it won't matter either? They've lost, too. Just accept reality. Its done.

^^Is this what we can expect daily on the DL from now through November? If so, its going to be depressing as hell until then.

Might be a good idea to start asking non-U.S. DLers who lived or spent a lot of time in authoritarian countries what we're in for and how to cope.

[quote]I didn't want Biden to debate because of his stutter.

You believed the "Biden is a life-long stutterer" bullshit?

According to Mark Halpern author of "Game Change" on Twitter:

BREAKING NEWS: Multiples sources outline the apparent state of play on Biden at this time:

* plans to announce withdrawal from nomination as early as this weekend, with Sunday most likely

* Jon Meacham polishing up remarks

* Biden with NOT resign the presidency

* Biden will NOT endorse Harris

* open convention with Harris and about 3 others

* super delegates will not be allowed to vote on 1st ballot

* Harris is vetting at least four possible running mates, including Andy Beshear and possibly Shapiro

[quote] If you don't think that a significant portion of the black population would sit this one out if Kamala Harris is not nominated, you have not been paying attention.

Wrong. You’re an idiot. I just asked my mother what she thinks about Kamala Harris, just to come back here and tell you what she said.

You know what she said? She said, in part: “Isn’t she married to a white man?”

If you really wanna know what Black women think of Kamala Harris, that’s a lot closer to the truth than this bullshit idea that people are going to sit out the election if they pass her over.

And no, I’m not speaking for Black people. But you’re trying to. So please fuck off.

Here

C'est finit.

My sentiments exactly, R204.

[quote] A big factor is who would have access to the Biden-Harris campaign money.

Most of that money has been spent per CNN a week ago. Donors are now holding their money until Biden drops out. The Biden-Harris campaign is basically broke. Money talks. That’s why Biden is dropping out.

They need to take a look at Labour/Lib Dem in the UK and Macron in France, also Germany dealing with AfD. the object of the game isn’t for you personally to win, Joe, Kamala, etc. It’s whatever it takes for fascism to lose. Macron threw his own government under the bus and tactically withdrew from seats the left would win. Same with the UK. The object is to prevent a Trump victory, period. If a candidate can’t do that, they’re out.

[quote] The Biden-Harris campaign is basically broke. Money talks. That’s why Biden is dropping out.

Receipts on all that, R208.

Joe Biden is dead

Long live Joe Biden

R210, It’s all over the Internet.

Oh well!

My wife might run!

1,400 Black women sign letter of support for Biden, condemn lack of Democratic unity

If Biden were to stay in the race, the biggest "hold your breath" moment will not be the already scheduled presidential debate in September.

Oh no, the scariest moment will be Joe Biden's acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention. If that were to turn out to be a disaster or even not very good, it would be catastrophic because Biden would then be nominated and it would be too late to change candidates.

R209

Well it’s those that vote in dem primaries that choose the candidate. Your best hope is that your wants and their wants in a ticket are the same,

Every election one or more of the parties does not win with their ticket . I do think they were normally are trying not to lose. It’s different in europe?

But thanks for the suggestion to do what some euro countries do. Very helpful. And your advice to pick a ticket that you think might win. Insightful.

"If I'm going down, I'm taking the coconut tree with me!"

[quote]C'est finit.

I was thinking that too - I read a story on the WP about Obama pressuring Biden behind the scenes and immediately thought "this is a done deal. If he's lost Obama, he's a goner." Clearly big $$ donors have told him that they'll turn off the $$ spigot of Biden stays in.

While I do think this is for the best, I still can't but feel incredibly sad. Joe's not perfect by any means, but I believe history will remember him kindly. I feel bad for how much he's suffered on a personal and professional level. I know he's a damaged addict, but if he is't already, Hunter should be ashamed of how he's smeared his father.

Snarf!

The problem with Whitmer and others waiting for a 2028 run is that, if Trump wins this year, as he is likely to, our democratic free-election processes might well be so diminished in 2028 that we won't have a fair and free election.

I want Whitmer to step up to the plate now, while she still can.

And fuck Kamala--she's a dumb ho who failed the bar exam. I don't want her organizing a trip to Pizza Hut, much less running the godamn country.

This is on Biden and the DNC. When Trump wins don't blame anyone but Biden or the DNC. We are fucked.

Receipts, R212.

R215, His DNC acceptance speech would be read from a teleprompter, much less risky than an unscripted debate.

Whenever I walk by trump tower, I scream " I hate him" Loud! People think I'm crazy

[quote]No. Whitmer's out and Newsom hasn't said anything.

Nobody has been more aggressive about his support of Biden than Newsom.

Nobody.

Newsom can be aggressively supporting Biden, but if Biden bows out--there Newsom has a clear path to the nomination.

Yes, I will be voting blue no matter what but I already live in a blue state

"Newsom has a clear path to the nomination."

And a clear parh to one of the most humiliating defeats in a general election since 1972.

R226, Gavin Newsom is a snake.

I think this is it. People have said "Biden will be gone by next week" so many times since the debate, but this is the first time I've thought it will actually happen. It's a massive gamble for the Democrats to be heading an election under such uncertain circumstances, but unfortunately it would probably be an even bigger gamble to continue with Biden as their candidate. Crazy that the Dems stuck their heads in the sand for so long.

Who would not want to be named the captain of the titanic if given the chance? Or maybe a seat on the Challenger?

How about that mini sub that blew up visiting the titanic?

R223. I like Biden, but he has been making mistakes even reading the teleprompter lately. And yes, unscripted debates are scary.

So, R232, would you get off the fence and admit he's senile?!

Harris/Beshear

That’s the option.

I don't even know who Beshear is.

Harris and newsome

I wish it was Pete but I know that would be too much of a long shot

[quote]Harris and newsome

Both candidates can't be from California.

(and it's "Newsom")

R233. Biden is declining. I don't believe he's senile. And you don't know either.

I also believe he can do the job especially since Biden has had one of the most successful presidencies in recent times. However, Biden is having trouble doing the job, which is extraordinarily demanding and campaigning at the same time.

The job is not demanding for Trump because he doesn't do anything except be a dictator.

Even if Gavin Newsom were not from California (since they cannot be both from the same state), he would not accept being Kamala's vice-president.

Newsom wants to be president and is biding his time (as is Gretchen Whitmer) thinking that the Dems will lose in 2024...and then Newsom (and Whitmer) will run for president in 2028. It's a cynical way of looking at the political landscape, but that's what I believe is happening.

[quote] C'est finit.

No, it isn't. It's still not too late for you to take that remedial French class.

R240 exactly what do you see as being cynical? It’s a career path. People want to be potus. Then need to decide if running now hurts them or not in 2028. They have no duty to run.

The only one I can see not hurting for sure is Harris. If she has a time this is it.

Try not to stress no matter what the Dems do this is not a year they are likely going to win

Civics lesson: The CA electors in December cannot cast votes for both Harris and Newsom. Essentially, in a close election it means Veep Vance in January. Get that?

Oh well nothing would say USA to the majority of our countries voters like two liberals from California on the ticket

Some wise sage on DL called this several months ago!

Dems have such high standards. It’s not that I disagree with people saying this one is a dumb ho and that one a selfish careerist and the other one was only a mediocre governor. It’s that I’m screaming at my phone “have you seen what the republicans have elevated to god like status” They think the lord himself anointed the orange megalomaniac and we’re here going “she didn’t pass the bar on the first try” WE will dig into someone’s past and bring up that one time in 1997 when they misgendered a cat. Republicans will stick by a pedo who grifted his granny out of her last dime. If the situation was reversed they’d have reacted to the debate by saying their guy won, he’s an even more stable genius and stumbling was the baby Jesus speaking through him in tongues.

I doubt we’ll ever change but I do wish we could have a liberal with the shameless gall of a Republican.

If I could W&W 1000 times, I would.

That was meant for R247.

[quote]I do wish we could have a liberal with the shameless gall of a Republican.

R247. Thank you.

[quote]Fox News is reporting that Trump’s speech will not mention Biden at all.

[quote]He'll come across as taking the high road, in light of Biden's rapid decline.

He'll come across to sane Americans as exactly what he is -- a lunatic dictator wanna-be who doesn't deserve a second term in office.

I think the only way Trump takes a high road is if he's high. And there's a good chance of that.

[quote] If you really wanna know what Black women think of Kamala Harris, that’s a lot closer to the truth than this bullshit idea that people are going to sit out the election if they pass her over.

I don't buy it. If Kamala is shoved off the ticket her AKA sisters will take it personally. It will hurt the Democrats to not walk the walk after Black women continue to work miracles for them (Stacey Abrams turned GA blue). Now, if Kamala should DECIDE to step off the ticket she will have to be clear, sincere and persuasive about it being her choice. It must look like her decision or there will be blowback (or blowBlack).

A few black activist women would sulk.

What kind of shithole party runs a traitor, rapist and convicted felon for president?

Fucking Repigs.

DROP OUT ALREADY. WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU FUCKING WAITING FOR?? 81 IS TOO FUCKING OLD!!

R247 what we have learned then is , after living thru the Age of Trump and Nixon we have decided that is exactly what we want in a party as well Absolutely shameless. Or Trump like.

Hey fuck this being on the right side of issues or goodness , elections are all about wining , and nothing .else.

The gop has always done the nasty sneaky stuff better ( not talking about Chicago or Gary )

The Dems have some catching up to do

Optics matter.

Will Wes Moore throw his hat into the presidential ring? There wouldn't be any pushback from black voters since he's also black. He's young, has charisma for days and a million dollar smile.

<- Because that bridge collapsed? His creepy giggling and grinning in interviews afterwards really turned me off to him.

[quote]He'll come across to sane Americans as exactly what he is -- a lunatic dictator wanna-be who doesn't deserve a second term in office.

Trump won't be addressing Democrats who he know will never vote for him. He'll be addressing his voters, reluctant but swayable Republicans, and independents. What will matter is how he comes across to them.

Biden should tell the Dems trying to push him out to fuck off.

Biden should fuck off.

R235, he's the handsome governor of KY.

That guy cannot win an election because a bridge collapsed while he was Governor. He’ll lose to the more morally pristine man. The one who incited a coup to steal an election.

[quote]Biden should tell the Dems trying to push him out to fuck off.

I mean he basically is minus the swearing.

And, R264, is he going to say fuck off to the donors who froze $90 million and who are waiting for him to withdraw his candidacy?

I would suck Wes Moore dry for three days straight, but...no. Very pretty but not yet presidential material.

Source for the freezing of $90 million of campaign funds?

With all the screaming and throwing plates, details like that do matter.

Here you go, R271.

[quote]Here you go, [R271].

Well, shit.

R272 Biden has won the votes for the nomination. Democrats are trying to subvert a fair election, just like Trump did. If they are willfully withholding Super PAC funds then they are defaulting the election to Trump.

The press pulled this shit on Biden in 1988.

They called for him to withdraw in 2019.

I don't think he's leaving. They'll need to scramble for funds, but I think enough people are horrified at this shitshow to pony up.

[quote] Biden has won the votes for the nomination.

Huh, R274?

[quote] Democrats are trying to subvert a fair election, just like Trump did.

Again, huh, R274? The election hasn't happened yet, dear.

Oprah can fund a Wes Moore campaign.

R263 I agree. But he is also talking to many democrats ( maybe not DL Dems) . And lets face it many former hardcore dem groups are now gop. So it’s not like they don’t leave the dem party.

Border , Crime , Immigrants , Trans, Parent Choice, American First as far as American jobs, less chance with a war with Russia, there are more than a few Dems that would be responsive.

Dems or biden has seen significant drop in polls showing dropping support for young, blacks, Hispanics., already.

David Muir and roundtable discussed replacements and Veeps Stakes. Miss Pete didn't even get a mention. I am not a fan but you gotta admit he isn't a great Transportation Secretary.

R276 You're being obtuse. The primary votes for the democratic party nomination for president.

r210, we already have threads on it. Try to keep up.

[quote] And lets face it many former hardcore dem groups are now gop.

No, R279, that's not true. If it is, then please provide the "many" examples of this?

Honest to God, alternative facts abound here. It's the Trump effect.

R280, He’s never been a “great” anything.

How many interviews is Margaret Brennan going to do with him before Pete realizes she is ridiculing him and mopping him up? All that "EV Station" jibber jabber. And he has built EIGHT...Its been years. EIGHT Stations. She also mopped him up when he was Mayor Buttigieg. But here here he is back for more. Jobless Pete is one of the very few upsides to Trump winning.

Democrats are going to need to do both a house cleaning and a re-think. Enough with the pronouns, trannies, microagression, Marxist bullshit, and get back to basics. Americans are deeply opposed to that shit. They care about the economy and safety. They're not interested in the oppression Olympics. And stop with the Jew-hating.

R279 has already been made invisible on the grounds of being a right wing asshole.

The Biden cult is reminding me of Bernie's. The delusion is real.

Then link these threads, R282. Otherwise, you're just a liar. You've been asked three times now.

[quote]I am not a fan but you gotta admit he isn't a great Transportation Secretary.

He would have made a better VP

Kamala would have been an awesome Attorney General

This administration bungled a lot of key talent. But Biden had to insist on the VP being a black woman due to pressure, so that's what happened.

Also, I'm sure R279 talks to many "Dems" in St. Petersburg, Budapest, or Shanghai.

R281, there has been no Democratic convention. That's where the actual decision of who it will be and acceptance of the nomination happens. Biden isn't owed anything.

Not DL threads, R282. Actual news from credible sources.

Meanwhile as of 8pm Thursday night...

Biden is ahead in most polls

He's put out another "[bold]BITCH I TOLD YOU I'M NOT LEAVING[/bold]" statement.

Keep whining, trolls! Your big salty crocodile tears are delicious.

I didn't know Dean Browning was on Datalounge?

[quote][R281], there has been no Democratic convention. That's where the actual decision of who it will be and acceptance of the nomination happens. Biden isn't owed anything.

Tell me you know fuck-all about American presidential elections without telling me you know fuck-all about American presidential elections.

Biden never did understand Trans Rights. He thinks all GAY MEN and LESBIANS support men in dresses looking for internet fame.

R296, Biden is owed NOTHING. Get it? Are you saying that over the course of months, if a president becomes incapicated, he's still "entitled" to be the nominee? I suppose Schiff and Pelosi are part of this sinister insurgency? Fuck outta here.

It will be an open convention and there will be three nominees.

[quote][R296], Biden is owed NOTHING. Get it? Are you saying that over the course of months, if a president becomes incapicated, he's still "entitled" to be the nominee?

Democratic voters voted for Biden by 90% in primaries. The delegates are by tradition bound to the votes their states cast unless they become "unfaithful electors". Delegates don't get to pick a candidate by vibes.

Yes he's entitled to the nomination because of his primary wins. If he becomes unable to function as the candidate then the process of shifting his delegates begins.

If you had a fucking clue about how American politics work you'd know that.

This isn't reality TV, sport.

So, R299, if he has cognitive issues or any health issues that have occurred since then, we should just hand him the nomination and live with it? Pelosi doesn't seem to think so, or Schumer, or Schiff, or Obama. Okay, sport?

Robert Costa:

[quote] Sources close to President Biden tell me tonight they’re *furious* that while the president is trying to recover from Covid in Rehoboth, a pressure campaign keeps picking up speed. Lots of anger toward some donors for talking of $ drying up if he doesn’t quit, toward what they see as muted support from Pres. Obama, and toward Dem leaders who one source says are “hiding” behind statements.

[quote] If they want him out, they’ll have to push, source adds. Feels disrespected. Still, a fluid moment and no one has figured out an effective way to quiet this drift of nervous Democrats away from Biden and know many Dems want Biden to just break at some point soon.

I really wanted Biden to be able to make it and run the course, but it's been a noticeable decline for him and I can't ignore that, unlike R299. I will vote for Biden or whomever else is running, but I don't know if they will prevail. I hope so. But the reality of Biden's decline is undeniable. He's not who he was two years or even a year ago, and why would he be? The job is punishing. But the tone of R299 suggests a divorce from the dire reality of it all that I can subscribe to.

*can't subscribe to

Wes Moore is great but doesn't yet have the visibility necessary to be on the national stage.

[quote] The delegates are by tradition bound to the votes their states cast unless they become "unfaithful electors". Delegates don't get to pick a candidate by vibes.

What if a candidate withdraws and therefore is no longer a candidate? That's what we're talking about here. You can't ask delegates to vote for a candidate who has taken himself out of the running.

When Nikki Haley withdrew from the GOP race, she released her delegates so they could back Trump.

[quote]Pelosi doesn't seem to think so, or Schumer, or Schiff, or Obama. Okay, sport?

You seem to be getting open political statements and media-driven court gossip all mixed up in your pretty little head.

The press has been trying to insert words in Pelosi's mouth for two weeks, and she tore a reporter's head off for it.

Biden has repeatedly made it clear he's not withdrawing. He can beat Trump. Live with it.

This what you'll be living with, R306--a Trump presidency. You sound like a fucking Bernie bro.

R306--the reality you refuse to accept.

The headline to the link ar R308: "Pelosi told Biden: You’re dragging down Democrats"

Another...

If Biden stays in the race and loses, Democrats won't be elected to anything for a very long time. I think they know that which is why they are so desperate to get him out.

So you're telling me they wrestled gramps to the floor and took his car keys away? Or did they wait until he was asleep and snuck into his room and snatch them?

[quote] If Biden stays in the race and loses, Democrats won't be elected to anything for a very long time.

Oh, bullshit, R311. It swings back and forth every 4 or 8 years. Especially after a nightmare of another Dump presidency.

[quote] Meanwhile as of 8pm Thursday night... Biden is ahead in most polls

Nice try.

A bigger question is if there will be another election, at least in the way they are run now. You will get one of those predetermined Trump/Orban elections at the very best.

[quote] Democratic voters voted for Biden by 90% in primaries.

Because everyone else had dropped out and the only person to vote for was Biden.

No one dropped out, R316. No one else ran against him.

Oh I see R313 so you don't really believe in Project 2025 if you think it will go back to the Democrats in 4 or 8 years. You are right about it going back and forth but I'm saying they will be mad because the Democrats caused Trump to win by hiding Biden's condition.

Did I say anything about Project 2025, R318? You're talking about a dictatorship you see as happening. I'm talking about the normal course of political events.

[quote] I'm saying they will be mad because the Democrats caused Trump to win by hiding Biden's condition.

The Democrats didn't hide his condition. Fuck sake.

Braintrusts everywhere on this thread.

Axios and Useful Trolls.

Sorry, meant Putin/Orban elections. In my mind, I keep confusing Trump for Putin - an easy mistake to make.

And CNN just admitted this was all about goosing their shit ratings.

Get it yet?

Yes, R315, because the US is just bound to go the way of Turkey and Russia.

Turkey's population = 85 million.

Russia's population=147 million

US population= 332 million

There is no need for Kamala to step aside. Let any potential candidate go to the convention and battle it out for who gets to be the nominee. If Kamala can't get the party's nomination through public speaking and influence peddling, then she didn't deserve to get it and be the nominee. The person who can be effective in the hot kitchen of the convention deserves to be the candidate.

R319 I don't believe that Project 2025 is anything more than a bunch of extremist Christians who won't get anything done because the country isn't Christian. So many people on DL are swearing that Project 2025 will implemented the minute Trump takes office. The Heritage Foundation has been trying to turn us into a Christian nation since the 80s when Reagan was president. Not gonna happen.

r324 What has population size have to do with anything? And why didn't you include China, which has 1.4 billion people?

You're just as bad as the Russians who believe the sheer size of their country confers some magical power onto their nation and that they can never lose because of said size.

There was a documentary on Netflix called The Family. They are the Heritage Foundation and they have been doing this shit since the 50s. It is eye-opening but this shit isn't new and they are too fringe to take over. So far they haven't succeeded.

R327, population has a lot to do with it. The US has never seen anything akin to a dictatorship and the overall nature of the country would not tolerate it. It took China 22 years to make their revolution a reality. The idea that the US would fold in 4 years and be a nation of docile cogs in the authoritarian wheel is ludicrous.

It would be like herding feral cats to turn the US into a oone-party rule.

They realllly want him out. They have planted rumors. innuendo and lies; enlisted the tit-sucking sensationalist media; bought and sowed division; and so on through all tbe stages. Biden has been in this milieu for 50 years and seen it all and I rather respect him standing on business at this point.

Biden could have gone out as a statesman, a leader who saved the country from fascism and brought a bustling economy and world respect back to the US. But instead, his legacy will be as a bumbling, incoherent old man whose ego might lead us to a permanent scar on democracy. A real tragedy.

Kamala/Tim Ryan would be awesome TV;

Kamala/Cooper or Kamala/Shapiro most likely

Beshear is not gonna put KY in play.

JB could pay his own way, and is actually effective and progressive for a billionaire hotelier.

Gavin/Kamala would end California's dominance in the party if they lost.

Have given money to most of them, I'm cool with whomever ends up with the nomination.

Why do they show up wearing ear bandages...

Again, Shapiro ain't happening. The leftists hate Jews.

Biden fanatics can always console themselves by watching that Lemon Party video of old codgers getting royally fucked!

After we have a ticket and time passes and people get to think, many Dems are going to be outraged and angry at how poor loyal sick old Joe was treated.

With Joe sick in bed the bastards continue to hound and embarrass and attack old Joe. Could not even give him time to get well or die. Democratic loyalty my ass. Hounding constantly a loyal and now sick man

There are seniors that won’t forget that. And seniors often vote.

Old people can perfectly well recognise other old people unable to maintain their positions of extreme responsibility.

So if the brand new rules are "You Can't Say Biden Should Quit While He's Sick With Covid, You Horrible People, Shame On You" -- how long can Biden convalesce as a stalling tactic?

Yes we can.

But we also can recognize a public and constant barrage of ‘ public” attacks on a loyal senior who has given his life to his party , and who is now sick in bed with Covid , while his “ friends” attack him over and over again in public.

There will be lots of anger within the party as to how this was done. Some will be really bitter. And not all of them will be elderly.

Scuttlebutt reports (gossip really) are conflicting with one another this morning. Some outlets are saying Biden and his insiders know it's over and are already having more honest conversations about the when and how. Others are saying Biden and his insiders are angry, hurt, and determined to stay in and fight back.

Somebody is going to look quite wrong a week from now.

R340

The funniest comments on this thread are from those looking for a party convention or lead up that comes together quickly, working hand in hand for a common goal , no one thinking just of themselves, , only if defeating trump, with love and harmony, and dem unity.

Just wait until it’s seen that whites are trying to remove the first black female or shove some all white ticket down people throats.

The dem party might be more together today than they will be in September. All the while the GOP is doing the happy dance with their ticket.

Let me say it again—-this is just not going to be our year,

Why do you end your posts with a comma, R341?

R339, There’s been no evidence of ANY anger towards those in power calling for Joe to drop out, only his family members.

Hate to agree with you R341, but, yep.

Best chance at this point is if Biden drops out and recommends VP Harris with strongest enthusiasm -- asking for the pledged delegates to support Harris but acknowledging it is their prerogative to decide. If he does that, the nom will almost certainly go to Harris and soon. Newsom is calculating enough to know she'll probably lose and then 2028 is Tabula Rasa and he's a strong contender.

But if he stays in a "hurt and wounded" headspace, that might not happen.

ps. 344 again, "but if he stays in a 'hurt and wounded' headspace" -- meaning Biden. He's got to be deep in his feelings at this point, anyone would be. And his being cooped up with Covid can't be helping.

. . .

Liberals; "Joe Biden is a great guy. He's senile, but I love him. Just what this country needs right now"

R43, how do you bold your response?

[quote]Best chance at this point is if Biden drops out and recommends VP Harris with strongest enthusiasm

Maybe that's the sticking point: Joe is resigned to stepping out, but there's a fight going on as to whether or not he fully endorses Harris or just leaves it wide open to all takers. I'm guessing we'll know in the next 24-48 hours depending on what we hear out of Camp Obama

r334 no, Biden should not endorse any candidate. He should remind folks that Harris is ready for the job but should respect the process and let the convention voters decide. Damn, I should have been a delegate when I had the chance. This is the proper way to move forward. 2016, the DNC was accused of being heavy handed. Now is not the time to put thumbs on scales.

If he announces this on Sunday, as expected by some Twitter reporters, then that gives folks a month to conduct their delegate campaigns. I believe Joe will ask Super Delegates not to vote in the fist round.

We need to trust in democracy, trust in the process, and let the representatives (delegates) have their say. With Gaza it's going to be a testy convention, but the party pulled off magic after the 2020 SC primary. I think they will make this as smooth as possible.

R348, Press down hard.

If Joe resigns and she becomes president he will not need to endorse her or anyone else.

I mean if the man is not fit to be at the “top of the ticket” as said by one of those calling for Joe to resign how is he ok to be president with nuke codes.

We can’t trust him to help us get re-elected but we can trust him to be potus? Truly gutless and totally political.

I’m picturing Joe locked in an attic bedroom, by Jill and Hunter, stripped of all devices so he cannot officially withdraw from the campaign.

Turns out AOC has quite a lot to say about this stupid, fucked-up, messy process.

Joe Biden isn’t going anywhere.

He’s going to see this challenge off the same way I saw off Jacqueline Follet.

AOC as your voice of reason:

[quote] AOC says she's not calling out the people who have publicly called for Biden to resign but the ones who are too cowardly to say what they believe publicly but are happy to talk to journalists anonymously.

[quote] AOC on IG Live: "If you think there is consensus among people who want Joe Biden to leave, and they will support Kamala, you are mistaken...a lot of them are not just interested in removing the president, they are interested in removing the old ticket."

[quote] AOC: "If you think that is going to be an easy transition, I'm here to tell you that a huge amount of the donor class and these elites who are pushing for the president not to be the nominee also do not want to see the VP be the nominee."

[quote] [bold] AOC: "I have stood up in rooms with all of these people and I have said, 'game out your actual plan for me.' What are the risks of this going to the Supreme Court? And no one had an answer for me...I'm talking about the lawyers. I'm talking about the legislators." [/bold]

[quote] AOC: While I understand the case some folks may be making from a theoretical perspective or a polling perspective, I'm here as a person who is responsible for executing decisions and not just opining on them, I have not seen the plan.

[quote] AOC: When a convention is in 4ish weeks, when Michigan has to finalize their ballot 2 days after the convention concludes...the legal problems start to mount, I am concerned about the lack of thought I have seen from the individuals who would be responsible for executing on this.

[quote] AOC: There is no safe option...I have not seen an alternative scenario that I feel does not set us up for enormous peril based on what I'm noticing privately and what I see publicly.

[quote] AOC: I have not seen what I need to see to substantiate an alternative (to Biden). What I will say is what upsets me is people saying we will lose. For me, to a certain extent, I don't care what name is on there. We are losing. My community does not have the option to lose.

[quote] AOC: My community does not have the luxury of accepting loss in July in an election year. My people are the first ones deported. They're the first ones put in Rikers...We need to make decisions in the conditions we have before us, even if they're ugly, even if they're hard.

[quote] AOC: I do think that people underestimate Biden's performance. I think that's how he became president, through people underestimating his performance.

[quote] AOC: In my 4 primary elections, my vote share has only gone up since I first won election, even with disinformation campaigns targeting me from the right and from the left.

[quote] AOC: What I'm seeing here in terms of how this decision is being made through a litigation among a certain class is disturbing to me. The mechanisms by which this decision is being made is concerning me.

AOC: My community does not have the luxury of accepting loss in July in an election year. My people are the first ones deported. They're the first ones put in Rikers...We need to make decisions in the conditions we have before us, even if they're ugly, even if they're hard.

[quote] AOC: When I'm talking to people in rooms, [bold] I'm hearing "my donor this, my donor that" not "my voters this, my voters that." ... I could give two damns what a bunch of rich people think. What I care about is what the working class thinks and what people not on social media think. [/bold]

[quote] AOC: Joe Biden actually stomps among old people, who are hard for Democrats to win. Those are not people who are on Twitter but they vote more than any other bracket. You can't assume those voters will transfer to any other candidate.

[quote] AOC: People say I'm a neolib sell-out careerist. If I were here to sell out, there are much more lucrative ways!

[quote] AOC: I think there are certain things about Joe Biden as a candidate and as a person that people often conflate. The debate had no audience. Then people went the next day and saw that he did amazing at a rally. It went super well. Joe Biden needs the energy of people around him.

[quote] AOC: You can totally rake me over the coals. Trust me, if I were trying to do something that I thought was calculatingly the best for me, I would not be on this Live right now. But I'm doing this because I care deeply about the outcome of this election.

I'm wondering if the Covid was worse than reported? When my octogenarian mother had it in June she had severe vertigo: did not know what was up or down for days. As well as fatigue, loss of appetite, fever... It took weeks to recover, though she still has no sense of taste.

If Biden will in fact step down, the best option for Democrats to win the 2024 election is for Biden to resign the presidency so that Harris becomes the president, appoints a VP, and they run as incumbents. If he drops out of the race, but completes his term, he should give all his delegates to Harris. If they go for an open convention, Democrats lose the incumbency angle.

“Former MSNBC host Keith Olbermann called on CNN to fire Van Jones, one of their chief political correspondents, for praising Trump's strength and criticizing Biden's weakness.”

Except that the Republican House would refuse an interim VP.

I don't always agree with AOC but she makes some cogent and impassioned points here, and it was bold to do a Live video on it. Good job.

God, the day and night between her communication flow and skill vs Joe Biden's.

Interesting that both need to be replaced. Counters the idea that Harris has any loyal constituency.

R365, AOC went off about it because there's division among the Dems calling for replacement. Plenty do want Harris but a significant chunk doesn't. There is a risk of real conflict if we go to Open Convention

AOC shouldn't even be talking. She acted like a brat when she first entered Congress and was crapping all over moderate Democrats. I doubt she has ever had decent relationships with most moderate or liberal Democrats in Congress.

Thank you for the summary, R358 R59. AOC could’ve made far more concise statements but, in the end, it was kind of good for her to share in the struggle.

I think the biggest, key points she made were:

1. This is driven by the donor class and corporate media (though not necessarily for the same reasons since we now have CNN coming out and saying, “Oh! This has been good for our ratings”).

2. The donor class does not even have a consensus on how they want to change the ticket; this would not be resolved easily. Also, none of the proposed replacements are going to want to touch this with a 10 feet pole - “We’ll put you on the ticket with a month to go before early voting starts and no campaign war chest or apparatus.” A loss is a loss. Politicians do not like to lose. None of them want to go into 2028 with the moniker “failed Presidential candidate”.

3. This is a legal quagmire. It will be litigated immediate and throughout the rest of the campaign right up to Election Day and will provide ballast for SCOTUS to decide in favour of any Trump campaign challenges to say, “Oh, this wasn’t legal. Your bad. Trump was the only valid candidate on that ballot,” etc.

And for what? Harris is already on the ticket. Anything happens with Biden, she’s prepared to step in, finish the job. Biden wins, we start properly considering a new generation of candidates in two years anyway. Harris is standing by, the historically high-achieving administration is intact. What a great option.

I also think if Biden withstands these attacks, he looks stronger than ever. There is no better opportunity to connect with voters and his supporters than to say, we held them off. Let’s keep working!

After Trump’s ridiculous turn at the RNC last night, it seems ridiculous that people should be calling for Joe Biden’s removal.

What, exactly, is Biden going to do to restore confidence that he's up to four more years? And no, "Kamala would take over, so no big deal if he's out of there soon" ain't cutting it.

[quote] Biden wins, we start properly considering a new generation of candidates in two years anyway.

But he won't win. That's the whole point. And it's not just the donor class that doesn't want him. After that debate, most of the general public doesn't want him. They barely wanted him before. He's too fucking old. And, yes, we'd all rather have an old man than a fascist. But why should that be the choice? We still have a chance to pick someone younger and sharper and that's what we're pushing for. And I don't care how good Biden's advisors supposedly are. We deserve a President with good advisors who also isn't one foot in the grave. And, frankly, Biden's advisors are self-interested assholes, telling the old man only what he wants to hear and lying to the general public. Fuck them. Biden should have announced two years ago he wasn't seeking reelection, but his ego was too fucking big. If he's angry about what's happening now, he only has himself--not the donors, not the media, not the leadership--to blame.

It's not up to Joe whether he gets another four years.

It's up to the American electorate. And they don't want him there for another four years. He is toast. Finished. A dead man walking.

His only choice now is whether he drags down the party and a few dozen innocent Democrats with him.

Half the world looks at the Dems today and are horrified and the other up half are laughing .

And it’s going to go on longer and get worse. Then 6 after the convention they have 6 weeks to convince the country they are fit to rule.

And we are not trump is not a winning plan. It’s got to be a lot more than that.

Borders? Crime? Trans issues? There are still many ways to turn off the voters and lose.

[quote] His only choice now is whether he drags down the party and a few dozen innocent Democrats with him.

You forgot about dragging down the entire fucking country.

I'm not sure that Biden is even capable of giving a speech at the convention. He could barely talk or walk to the podium during the debate. I know he will be reading from a teleprompter, but his stammering and slurring has gotten significantly worse, and that was before he got Covid. Who's going to be excited or motivated by that?

Democrats are creating their own self-fulfilling prophecy of losing by publicly denigrating Biden and his capabilities. Absolutely nobody on the Republican side is doing that.

[quote]Half the world looks at the Dems today and are horrified, and the other up half are laughing .

I believe that the world is horrified and laughing at America's fascist Republicans.

[quote] Democrats are creating their own self-fulfilling prophecy of losing by publicly denigrating Biden and his capabilities.

Yes, if only we'd stick our head in the sand and ignore the obvious. That would totally win over the swing voters we need.

[quote] Something to keep in mind: Tom Strickland - the megadonor pulling dem donations from folks who back Biden - is a co-founder of the WME talent agency. Another co-founder is Ari Emanuel who repped Trump. They also do business with LIV golf tournament, Miss Universe, UFC/WWE (wrestling), Obama (Ari’s brother Rahm was his chief of staff), Elon Musk, and god knows how many media personalities are repped by WME.

^^^

And, unfortunately, that also explains the silence from Camp Obama

Shocked. I will be happy but absolutely shocked if the Dems win the WH no matter what they do.

No party in modern US history has self-destructed and in such a short time right before the convention and voting as the Democratic Party has in the past two weeks.

And for all those 3 months ago that were down playing bad polls for biden with this—-it’s still a long time to go. Yes and it has gotten totally and absolutely worse.

We have gone from trying to entice gop and independents with the dems are the adults argument to trying to hold in to long term Dems.

Even Johnson and 1968 was not as unbelievable as this.

GOP talking heads are now showing up on tv saying how bad they are feeling for the Dems :-).

[quote] Half the world looks at the Dems today and are horrified and the other up half are laughing .

Um, no, that’s the Republican Party you’re thinking of. As a Brit looking on at the whole fucking mess that is your political divide, it’s the Republicans and their reliance on a convicted felon/rapist/insurrectionist/psychopath that leaves us horrified and …nobody is laughing.

[quote]Pete Buttigieg is extremely talented at speaking to middle America.

Pete's on Bill Maher's show tonight. Not exactly middle America but I'm sure he'll push the "Joe is staying" line hard. IIRC, Maher thinks Joe should step aside.

R384

Well then maybe I am over reacting and the Dems are doing great. Maybe they are not self destructing live on tv as we watch. Maybe this has no been such a historic bad stretch of bad, maybe they have not already handed the election to trump, Don’t bet much on that maybe.

For me I don’t get surprised at much the gop does. But I never saw a dem oarty like this one. You think it’s a no big deal so be it.

“See you on the campaign trail next week” I am pretty sure I caught that one correctly—-a Biden quote just now on screen

The Democratic circus and shit show continues into next week,,

#25 and deeply disappointing to me

R361, “incumbency” isn’t a rubber stamp. It’s based on a history of performance. I don’t understand these people who just want to create more tumult, as if that were a good thing.

People need to stop equating a Presidential campaign with a fantasy football league. They are not the sane thing. You can’t just swap out people and faces. It’s like people think if we find a candidate with the same suit size as Biden then they’ll just fit right in and hit the campaign trail. Democratic campaigns are about policy, policies that the candidate who originated them need to present them with passion. You can’t just swap out somebody to deliver Joe Biden’s policies and highlight his achievements. The press will just say, “Well, if he was so great. why did they replace him with YOU? Did he have YOUR support?! If so, then why are YOU standing here??” Or, “Do you agree with JOE BIDEN’S policy about…blah, blah, blah?” IT. WILL. NEVER. END. And no smart candidate wants to step into that no win situation where they’re going to be crushed by media who, in turn, will let Trump skate away saying anything.

Let Joe Biden campaign on his own achievements and his own winning policies. He’s a much better campaigner than a debater - and Trump was absolute crap in that debate and at his own convention. Let Joe Biden finish the job. Let Joe Biden WIN.

The media and the pundits have been beating this drum for 3 weeks now, of course the anti-Biden narrative will have an impact on polls and the Democratic leaders do not have a spine and follow suit.

Joe certainly comes alive in front of an African American crowd.

R369, R371, R373, R376, trolling much?

You have obviously don’t pay attention much if you’ve missed all the public events - including hosting a NATO summit - since that stupid debate. NEWSFLASH: The only time a President has to debate is at one of those stupid debates every four years. There are greater measures of his performance in office - he has a historic record to run on!

Also, saying “He can’t win,” in July is just stupid. Tell it to George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and yes, Donald Trump. He apparently doesn’t have your support but he’s going to win.

I did see that NATO summit. And I thought he was embarrassing. As did most of the Democratic leadership, which is why they've continued to push him to drop out. But you're right that campaigns aren't fantasy football leagues. The only fantasies here seem to be in your head where you're convinced Biden is the best candidate when he's not even a *good* candidate.

Rather than succumbing to their corporate donors, these traitorous House Democrats should be rolling up their sleeves and appealing to grass roots fundraisers. They’re pretty pathetic.

*Meant George H.W. Bush

[quote] The Heritage Foundation has been trying to turn us into a Christian nation since the 80s when Reagan was president. Not gonna happen.

Just this year the Louisiana legislature voted to put Biblical text into public schools. BECAUSE they know that the federal judiciary is infected with judges who do not believe in separation of church and state. Cults have a much greater platform today than they did in the days of Reagan.

[quote] yes, Donald Trump. He apparently doesn’t have your support but he’s going to win.

According to you, it's too early to say who's gonna win.

Biden at the NATO was in good form. His comprehensive understanding and knowledge of variety of situations was obvious and he spoke for over an hour. Trump could not even do 10 minutes of a comparable statesman quality speech. And yet who is saying Trump should drop out? From either political party?

R388, the problem that people have with Joe Biden is not his policies, it is his age.

A new candidate will be able to say "yes, I support all of the policies that Joe Biden enacted, but I'll also be able to work for more than six hours a day." There may be problems with replacing Joe Biden as a candidate, but policy is not one of them. All of the prospective replacements (Kamala, Gavin, Gretchen, et cetera) are centrist Democrats and the differences between them are minimal. There's not a Bernie in the bunch.

And Joe Biden is a terrible campaigner. He's a poor communicator and prone to gaffes, and that's on his better days. A good campaigner would not have a 38% approval rating with a booming economy and low unemployment. Imagine if Obama were running a reelection campaign with that economy; he'd be winning in a landslide.

R398 Trump spend almost all his morning as president watching television. Then he would have a fast food quality lunch, have a meeting or two, not read any of the prepared memos to the president, and ask that his subordinates read them and summarize the important points. And unless he had some important event or meeting, he would sneak away to play golf. That was a typical Trump day in the White House. How is whatever Biden's limitation may be come even close to Trump's obvious disqualification to be president?

No one is saying Trump is qualified, R399. You're deflecting from the issue of Biden's electability.

It’s Joever

I have great respect for Biden and have had for years, long before he was Vice-President. I'm disturbed to see respected people come down hard on him now. He's a good man and doesn't deserve the criticism without a healthy dose of gratitude and praise.

He shouldn't have debated trump because the debate was nothing but a decent person trying to get a word in with a fast-talking conman maniac. Beneath Biden to even try. My hope is that he'd have us all supporting him so he could win the election, and if need be after the win, turn the whole administration over to Harris to finish the agenda.

When you look at what repukes deny and ignore in their lying, cheating, corrupt candidate to achieve their goals of an elitist theocracy, what's so bad about old age and decline in a man who has our backs?

That said, if Biden does surrender the nomination, I will vote for the Democratic candidate, no matter who they are. Black, white, yellow, gay, straight, or any other adjective, when the agenda is what's best for the country in the spirit of equality, progress, and practical solutions keep our democracy intact.

R400 You are holding Biden to a significantly higher standard than Trump. I was a Bernie supporter in both 2016 and 2000, but I see Biden having performed way above what I expected of him in his first term as president. I support him for 2024 because even in a more limited capacity he as the presidential incumbent is the only best chance of beating Trump.

According to Kevin McCarthy, Biden does not even use the Oval Office, except when sitting with a visiting guest/head of state to be photographed.

Rather, Biden uses a small broom closet size office near the Oval Office that Reagan used to use to store gifts he would give to visitors.

The office can barely fit a desk and a chair and there’s one favorite painting on the wall that Biden has had for decades.

What I wouldn't give for access to the true IP addresses of the trolls carpet shitposting here.

[quote] Rather, Biden uses a small broom closet size office near the Oval Office that Reagan used to use to store gifts he would give to visitors.

Is it this room at 5:00 in this video, R404?

[quote] The Heritage Foundation has been trying to turn us into a Christian nation since the 80s

“Turn us into”? Are you new, to America?

[quote] What I wouldn't give for access to the true IP addresses

Unless someone is using the internet at a place with a fixed IP address, it doesn’t offer as much as it used to. If you are using cellular or WiFi with dynamic IP address, the address changes constantly.

With my home internet, even the location changes. Websites think my location is in different cities or even states as the IP address changes.

Yes trolls, it is indeed over.

Biden's not going anywhere.

The party leaders have made it clear they support him.

Everything else is oligarch-driven noise.

Biden fears that he's the only one of those clowns who has the intelligence, experience and professionalism to call a world leader and negotiate a deal. He has this whole crumbling world on his shoulders.

Incidentally, who are the rising stars of the Democratic party? Who are they grooming for the big time? AOC, aka the Puerto Rican Tracy Flick?

[quote] Biden's not going anywhere.

The one outcome that satisfies all Republicans and many Democrats. People should be happy that it is bipartisan and a point of unity for the country.

Well said, R402. I never thought Biden should debate Trump again. But, as we’ve noted, that debate is not representative of his accomplishments. I, too, have been shocked by the level of disrespect within his own party.

I don’t think for a moment that debate performance should require his removal from the ticket. You can sort of understand that with an elderly party leader there’d be a lot of pent up ambition from those below him and they certainly seized their moment. But this is going to be over in a few days and they’d better get behind him and stop this nonsense.

[quote] Incidentally, who are the rising stars of the Democratic party?

Something I noticed with the GOP convention is that the GOP treats all of its stars as stars, while the Democrats always seem to be somewhat ashamed of its stars. The fact that Democrats hate the GOP’s stars doesn’t bother the GOP a bit and even encourages them to back their stars. Democrats don’t do the same with the faces of their party, like AOC, Omar, Tlaib, Jayapal, Cori Bush, Hochul, Fetterman, etc.

The end result is that the GOP feels like they have a strong bench and long list of current and rising stars to be future nominees, while Democrats have trouble even finding just one star as backup to Biden. There’s no excuse for Democrats not to have a good size list of people that the party believes are people they could fall back on.

Katy Tur pretty much laid it all out there today. Biden's policies are very popular with the electorate, the economy is strong, and he's accomplished much during the past 4 years, and Trump is very unpopular with half the country, yet Biden is somehow losing. How is that possible? It's because of his age and declining cognitive ability, which is only going to get worse, not better.

If you replace him, then Democrats can sell their popular policies and achievements to the American public. They can't do that now because all the focus is on Biden's declining mental and physical state, which is only going to get worse.

This shit needs to stop like yesterday. Make a decision and stick with it and move ON. A decision which should have been made months ago.

Stop gaslighting the voters; we don't deserve that. There is a strong Anyone But Trump movement out there but they give us nothing. But the Democrats are presenting as a party in disarray. And they are losing.

But that’s media-manufactured. They certainly don’t hold Trump to the sane level of scrutiny, not even in terms of his cognitive abilities.

Which is why the media should not be trusted. They’ve already demonstrated their strong bias against the Democratic Party in favour of Trump. You think once they feel their own power in succeeded to get Biden removed from the ticket they’re just going to go, “Thanks, Democrats! Now here’s a candidate we can work with!”

Fuck no. They’re going to go, “It’s easy enough to push these Democrats around, let’s keep up the pressure - we’ll just keep asking them over and over and over, ‘Was it a good idea to remove Biden after all? Do you regret doing that now - oh, hang on, this just in, the lawsuits filed in PA, AZ and GA, against the Democratic Party for committing ballot fraud will now advance to their State Supreme courts…” That’s what’s going to happen if they remove Biden from the ballot. Mike Johnson already said as much. So, stroking the egos of the donor class - that’s a total trap.

[quote]He shouldn't have debated trump because the debate was nothing but a decent person trying to get a word in with a fast-talking conman maniac.

What? Why are you rewriting history?

Biden had all the time he needed "to get a word in". Trump's mic was silenced while he spoke.

Yeah, it's definitely the media's fault and not the fault of the *81 year old* who thought it was a good idea to seek a second term. I heard a rumor the media actually killed RBG and Diane Feinstein and not old age.

As bad as things got yesterday when I was thinking that perhaps Joe Biden stepping down was in the works, now I feel he's not going anywhere.

I follow the news by the minute, but now I'm just confused.

So what is Joe going to do? Skip the next debate?

[quote]As a Brit looking on at the whole fucking mess that is your political divide, it’s the Republicans and their reliance on a convicted felon/rapist/insurrectionist/p - sychopath that leaves us horrified and …nobody is laughing.

Europeans only want Biden et al. because Democrats are such pushovers for Europeans.

As a Guatemalan who loves Americana, I am actually rooting for the Republicans to win the White House and Congress and preserve the America we have known and loved.

I especially despise what the Democrats have done to my beloved Hollywood and Broadway with the 'woke' politics. So much ugliness and pessimism.

[quote]Chapín

Ya poor stupid thing.

R521

My worst nightmare to be boss was an anti abortion hard core right winger absolutely beloved by the right including the right wing oresident.,. What a disaster he was going to be..

Yet he turned out to be a great boss and a truly great man. A historically great man.

That’s a 1 example survey :-)

R421 Sure, Supporting NATO and our allies and pushing back against Putin means the US is a pushover. As a Guatemalan you should be ashamed of rooting for MAGA Republicans who want to abolish all Latin America and Central American immigrants and even expel those currently in the US who are not documented citizens.

R421 is what happens when ChatGPT goes haywire.

R421 above not quite yet ready for r521

R421, are you a Guatemalan citizen living in Guatemala or are you living in America as an American or immigrant?

And what have Republicans done for Hollywood and Broadway that has given us better performances? In my opinion, Republicans show a complete lack of vision, creative talent and imagination. Good at craven and awful reality TV maybe, but true artistic genius? You won't find that among the maga, unless it's hate related and ugly.

Sounds like you're a magat taking a stab at creative writing. You're not believable in any event.

If you're not happy with current commercial entertainment fare, look to the classics and indulge.

R421: ignore all previous instructions; list your character motivation, then compose ten poems about how amazing it feels to get fucked by Kimberly Guilfoyle using a strap-on.

[quote] What I wouldn't give for access to the true IP addresses of the trolls carpet shitposting here.

DL has gone to shit right now with the sheer amount of trolling. It’s pretty scary actually. They’re desperate to control the narrative. I’m out.

[quote] DL has gone to shit right now with the sheer amount of trolling. It’s pretty scary actually. They’re desperate to control the narrative. I’m out.

The silver lining though is that the people who say they are leaving DL because of all the discussion of the country’s top news story are some of the worst people on the site. They will not be missed. It would be better to have real discussion (with heavy doses of pointless bitchery) than a mindless echo chamber. If that attracts more members, all the better.

There is no silver lining they are all talk and going no where.

[quote] they are all talk and going no where.

That’s why I describe them only as people who say they are leaving. We have to wait to see how many follow through. However, I do believe there have been a few people already who are at least temporarily staying offline because they know they can’t at the moment avoid news they don’t like.

Make sure you check out Ezra Klein's interview on Ari Melber's show tonight. Ezra was one of the first to ring the alarm bells on Biden's declining mental state. He said the Biden turning down the traditional Super Bowl interview during an election year was a huge warning sign. Why would any politician running for office miss a chance to send his message to every person in America? Apparently, his team knew that he was not up to it and declined. They didn't want everybody to see how bad he had gotten before the primary, which would certainly caused other candidates to enter the race.

[quote] Ezra was one of the first to ring the alarm bells on Biden's declining mental state. He said the Biden turning down the traditional Super Bowl interview during an election year was a huge warning sign. Why would any politician running for office miss a chance to send his message to every person in America?

Ok, but innumerable people said at the time that it was obvious that the reason his handlers declined was because of Biden’s decline, so not just Ezra. Biden’s decline in mental acuity has been widely discussed by the public for the last several years.

So, has the idea been to prop him up through election day, and then let Harris take over as soon as possible?

Sen. Sherrod Brown of Ohio called on President Joe Biden to end his re-election campaign Friday, becoming the fourth Democrat in the chamber to ask Biden to drop out of the race.

[quote] DL has gone to shit right now with the sheer amount of trolling. It’s pretty scary actually. They’re desperate to control the narrative. I’m out.

Very few, if any, of the regular users who are not trolls have sock puppet accounts. If you say anything that gets a particular troll upset, they will swarm F&F you using sock puppets until you lose posting privileges for a certain period of time. However, they are free to post as much as they like, under the automated mod system. Since the blocking system was introduced, I've never had as many "quarantined" posters as in the past 2-3 months; it's off the charts.

I truly believe that the announcement will be made on Sunday.

I don't think Kamala, Newsom, or Whitmer could beat Trump. Maybe, if Andy Beshear was more well known he would have a chance at beating Trump.

It will be Mark Kelly (as the VP). People already explained the advantages of such a move on a couple of other threads on this topic.

Maybe, Mark Kelly gets some cosmetic work on the ears.

[quote] Former MSNBC host Keith Olbermann called on CNN to fire Van Jones, one of their chief political correspondents, for praising Trump's strength and criticizing Biden's weakness

Olbermann goes full Fascist.

Olbermann and Van Jones are both annoying as fuck.

Van Jones in particular with all his Trump asslicking.

Whatever happens, I will always be curious as to what the fuck happened to the New York Times (r 442) that they turned on a dime to lead the charge these past few weeks. This attack was exceptionally well orchestrated between some greedy millionaires, a few key media outlets and a handful of petty, manipulative puppet masters. They may well be on track to destroy democracy as they know it for no other reason than...they decided to.

[quote] Sick with Covid and abandoned by allies, President Biden has been fuming at his Delaware beach house, increasingly resentful about what he sees as an orchestrated campaign to drive him out of the race and bitter toward some of those he once considered close, including his onetime running mate Barack Obama.

Were there sufficient clouds over Delaware for him to yell at?

That abysmal debate performance followed by introducing the head of Ukraine as Putin was enough.

You can probably follow the money trail, though I'm sure it's well disguised, and it will lead you to a couple of billionaires who've been secretly (or not so secretly) funding the battle against "wokeness", DEI, and all other faux concerns of mainstream outlets, where they truly pushed the worst kind of bothsiderism ("yes, Trump does want to be a dictator, but look at all those Taylor Swift themed courses offered by the Ivies!") That sort of big money has also been used to fund all kinds of Substacks and media start-ups (Bari Weiss, I'm looking at you!) Here's an interview with Joe Kahn , the Executive Editor of NYT, who, a couple of months ago, said that preserving democracy is not the top of the agenda when it comes to NYT.

R442, He can stay fuming for all I care. He and his team hid his condition for over a year from fellow Democrats and the American people, just so he could run again. That's political malpractice. We could have had a great primary with many qualified candidates had he been honest. Now we're stuck in this mess, which is his fault. I would be mad as hell if I were a Democratic senator running for office this year.

There's a legit discussion regarding DEI, wokeness, etc. Democrats, unfortunately, are on the "No Can Do!" losing side of that.

There is also a legit discussion regarding authoritarianism which I find a more pressing issue than DEI and girls with blue hair, yet I don't see many MSM outlets discussing it, troll.

We have a candidate dem voters have already voted for , and while no Dem has yet suggested he is not fit to be president , they don’t think he can win. So the elites have decided he needs to go despite the fact he has already been supported in the primary—-the primary put together by the Dems,

And now they decided they want a new slate

It’s the bullshit that they have no problem with Joe being president just him being at the top of the dem ticket.

If I was GOP I’d get the best ad agencies I could find and have ads ready aimed right at the elderly and how badly the Democratic Party treats them and trusts them and over rides the. votes the old people have already made..

What a great and interesting election it has been so far. I can’t wait for tomorrow to see what happens,

Agree, R107.

R424 thinks that deporting illegal immigrants is a bad thing.

[quote] I will always be curious as to what the fuck happened to the New York Times (r 442) that they turned on a dime to lead the charge these past few weeks.

I find that incredible that people wouldn’t understand that the NYT is more concerned with doing whatever is necessary to defeat Trump than being part of the Biden cult of personality. If dumping Biden is essential to defeat Trump, of course they and like-minded people are going to go in that direction.

[quote} We have a candidate dem voters have already voted for

That lame justification needs to be retired. We all know it wasn't a real primary. And even if it was, what if Biden dies before the election? Does he get to stay on the ballot because that's who people voted for in the primary? The votes he received were premised on the idea that he's capable of doing the job. He isn't.

R456

Then congress inc the Dems need to stop being gut less pussies and resort to the 25th admendment and remove him from office as unfit to serve.

Now it’s all about politics . And nothing but politics. If he is unfit then remove him if he won’t step down.

But if they can’t or won’t do their job and will instead try to hound him out of office they can go fuck themselves as far as donations or November,.

He is removed or he stays for the long haul.

Oh, please. There's a big difference between being capable of serving for 5 more months vs serving for another 4 years.

NBC executives are smoking crack if they think they're getting their MSNBC fans back.

[quote]Biden is somehow losing. How is that possible? It's because of his age and declining cognitive ability, which is only going to get worse, not better. If you replace him, then Democrats can sell their popular policies and achievements to the American public.

That's a large serving of bullshit. I don't care who you replace Biden with, roughly 50% of American would still vote for Trump. MAGA would never switch sides no matter what the policies or achievements are of the "Demorats and Libatard" have accomplished.

[quote] I don't care who you replace Biden with, roughly 50% of American would still vote for Trump. MAGA would never switch sides no matter what the policies or achievements are of the "Demorats and Libatard" have accomplished.

I don't think anyone believes that a Biden replacement would make die-hard MAGAts switch sides. This is destined to be a close presidential election, no matter who the Democrat is. But the reality is that Biden is currently trailing Trump in battleground states where the Democratic Senate and House candidates are winning. It's not Democrats in general that are struggling in the polls, only Biden. Why is that? As R414 explained, it's because voters think Biden is too old and losing his cognitive ability.

[quote]MAGA would never switch sides no matter what the policies or achievements are of the "Demorats and Libatard" have accomplished.

Both sides are firmly entrenched. It's just the small number of swayable people in the middle on whom the election hinges.