OFFICIAL First Biden-Trump Debate Thread PART THREE

Bump

Bump

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Relax. It's fucking JUNE.

Euthanasia sounds like a plan

Could Jamie Raskin defeat Trump?

Just think. In a matter of a few months we may see Biden, Trudeau, and Macron each start collecting their excessive pensions

This country is fucked harder than Nancy Reagan’s throat at a 1949 Academy Awards afterparty.

Dems are thinking about giving Joe the hook.

People who are saying no big deal are deluding themselves. Biden was behind BEFORE the debate. He needed to show competence but all he did was confirm all the concerns.

He’s got to go. We cannot have another Trump term.

According to Allan Lichtman, debates have no predictive value on the election outcome.

Joe Biden will not be replaced, but if he were to be, Gov. Gavin Newsom of California is the most viable candidate.

Chris Cuomo Suggests to RFK Jr. He Should Replace ‘𝑭𝒓𝒆𝒆 𝑭𝒂𝒍𝒍’ 𝑩𝒊𝒅𝒆𝒏 After Debate: ‘Democrats Are Looking for Somebody’

R12 Newsom isn't a viable candidate.

Joe called the incontinence hotline recently. They asked if he could hold.

I'm just arriving and only perused the second thread, so forgive me. Does Joe have a cold as was going around elsewhere? If so, they should have lied, said it might be Covid and postpone the debate for a couple weeks. This was one step short of disaster. At least he didn't collapse on stage. What was weird was the much more the Joe we know at that watch party shown on MSNBC. Jen Psaki was right: if that Joe had shown up, we'd be having a different conversation. At least he got stronger as the debate went on whereas Trump seemed to get tired and rambling from topic to topic. If you aren't a news or political junkie, you wouldn't know what they were talking about half the time, and I worry that Biden did nothing to dispel the notion that he can't focus. We know Trump can't and that's already been factored in.

Not suicidal but enjoying a nice blunt.

As I have said before, I will vote for Biden if he is a Fururama head in a bottle.

He is infinitely more acceptable than Dump or The Brain worm on ANY PLANET.

The issue isn't who we're going to vote for, it's who are those elusive independents going to vote for, or not vote at all (which is 6/9ths a vote for Trump). People who were questioning Biden's mental fitness received no comfort tonight, and that's looking at the bright side.

There's no way he'll be replaced. You thought PUMA was bad? This will split the party for a generation, and our liberal democracy will be lost.

Jamie Raskin is smart and dedicated to the Constitution; however, he was treated for cancer last year. Let's not get into a health issue like that. Raskin is not a viable candidate.

This debate will be forgotten in a week. Biden will not be replaced.

President Biden appeared old and weak and that worries me. Optics matter.

Oh honey.

R17. R18.

Dear sweet r17 r18.

The decision has already been made for you.

I'm hoping for a President Newsom in 2028, so that's not exactly the best argument.

R11 "Experts..."

[quote]Newsom isn't a viable candidate.

R14. Why not?

R23 if the planet align correctly you may be able to reelect him then!

Reagan had much the same reviews as Biden with his first debate in 1984. Wasn't the Mondale presidency great!

[quote]According to Allan Lichtman, debates have no predictive value on the election outcome.

But there's never been a Presidential debate like this one, where you hoped one of the candidates would make it through without falling over.

R27 Are you blind and deaf?

Even the New York Times comment section has a "Mary!" brigade.

[quote] "I am panicked. I have actually been shaking. This debate performance was disastrous and cannot be undone or unseen. Please, President Biden. It is time to step aside while we still have a chance."

ROFL @ the people screeching Newsom isn’t a viable candidate while having spent the past six months pushing KING MOTHERFUCKING LEAR

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ― George Orwell, 1984

All I can do is vote against Trump and hope for the best.

George Bush Sr lost his first debate. George Bush Jr lost his first debate. Barack Obama lost his first debate. Trump lost all three debates to Hillary Clinton.

Incumbent presidents often lose their first debate for several reasons...they are in a bubble with so much work during their first term, they are very much policy wonks during their first term and have a record to defend, while the challenger just has to stand on the sidelines and talk shit.

Joe Biden will not be replaced.

MSNBC's 𝐍𝐢𝐜𝐨𝐥𝐞 𝐖𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐚𝐜𝐞 said the conversation about replacing Biden was 'live and active at the highest levels of the Democratic party.'

MSNBC's 𝐉𝐨𝐲 𝐑𝐞𝐢𝐝 agreed, noting her phone was buzzing throughout the debate from texts from Democrats.

'The universal reaction was somewhere approaching panic,' she said, adding they were 'very concerned' about Biden appearing feeble and weak.

People who falsely stated that the videos this month showing Biden in decline were fake need to be held accountable.

I will vote for ANYONE other than Trump.

With Trump, our democracy will die.

R34.

They have to replace him. Trump will skip the 2d debate so it leaves this poor impression of Biden and denies Joe any chance at redemption. Biden will only get worse not better. Democrats have to be adult about it and draft a replacement.

I would vote for Biden even if he were predicted to die the day after the election. It is essential that the Dems win and that Trump be defeated. There is no other option, and Biden will not be replaced.

Die Trump die. If everyone chants it to themselves may it will work.

[quote[ People who falsely stated that the videos this month showing Biden in decline were fake need to be held accountable.

Being a badly mistaken and misdirected Datalounge bully means never having to say you're sorry

I am not celebrating. Hear me out…They are going to bring in someone far worse than Biden and someone who has a far better chance at winning.

Everyone knew this was going to happen and I don’t understand why Trump agreed to an early debate…

The writing was on the wall.

On the last thread I mentioned that the debate happened earlier this year WITH REASON. I am shocked no one else here questioned this.

“What we witnessed tonight wasn’t an accident, it was intentional. Brace yourself for a wild 5 months ahead.”

This is what I keep saying.

Vivek?

Might as well be QAnon R44 & R45.

[quote] On the last thread I mentioned that the debate happened earlier this year WITH REASON. I am shocked no one else here questioned this.

Ummm… many people said this was the reason they were moving the debate.

Are you just beginning to question the awareness Commission too? Think you’ve made a groundbreaking discovery?

I won’t offer an opinion until I watch The View and Whoopi and Joy tell me what to think.

Do you remember the appearance at Radio City Music Hall where Bill Clinton looked like he was about to burst out laughing?

Maybe give you a little premonition or something? A little prickle on the back of your neck? Or do you people just not notice these things?

Senile trumps Psychotic.

I’m worried Trump will win and my gay marriage will be dissolved and we’ll end up in internment camps then incinerated.

Everything Trump said was a lie

R41 I think the only chance we’ll have is if Biden dies.

Well, you shouldn’t have backed a candidate that gets up on national tv and says women are being raped by their sisters. What is this? The Lena Dunham story?

R52 No one cares though. Everyone knows Trump lies.

His lies and criminal charges don’t and have never stopped him.

I'm afraid that Trump's lies are going to make my ears bleed. They can only take so much.

THR reviews the debate:

In my fantasy Joe withdraws and the convention nominates Hillary, who goes on to trounce Trump.

Like I said: a fantasy. But I can't think of anyone else more ready for Day 1 in the White House. I don't agree with her 100% and she was poor on the campaign trail last time, but I cannot think of anyone more qualified.

You simply CANNOT be serious R58.

[quote] Hillary, who goes on to trounce Trump.

I can't think of anything America would more enjoy than beating Hillary yet again and sending her back to the bottle

Latinos aren't feeling Trump's racist insults

NBC News reporting Bidens team huddled for 30 minutes before sending out anyone to the Spin Room to defend Bidens performance. I knew Biden was going to fuck this up!! I fucking knew it!!

[quote] I knew Biden was going to fuck this up!! I fucking knew it!!

yep

Four. Long. Miserable Years.-------------The future.

Let's hope something changes and that doesn't happen R64. Very depressing indeed.

[quote] I am not celebrating. Hear me out…They are going to bring in someone far worse than Biden and someone who has a far better chance at winning.

I do not believe Joe will permit himself to be removed by insurrectionists, but if he was how do you get rid of the certain loser black female VP without losing the ENTIRE black vote

Promise her a Supreme Court nomination R66. Obama would be the only one who could talk her into taking the offer apparently.

I heard this discussed during the after-debate media analysis.

There's no way Kamala can win an election on her own.

I think he is going to step aside. The calls are too universal at this point, there is no way that he can ignore them. And it’s not gonna get better.

The question is, who will replace him? We’re probably looking at a floor fight between Gavin Newsom and Kamala Harris.

If (big if) but taking your post at face value - if he does step aside R68 then it has to be Newsom out of Newsom and Harris. OR it could be Newsom President AND Harris VP. Would that work?

R66 most black people don’t like Kamala. No one voted for him because of her

“We are 12 years removed from Obama and Romney debating 3 times.

It doesn’t matter what you think of them, they were both objectively highly intelligent and capable people…..which is what you would expect from people vying for the most important job in the world.

There was no talk about senility or drugs or any of it. The question was which candidate would perform better, not which candidate would embarrass themselves less.

That tonight we are having a Biden vs Trump debate, again, is a disgrace.”

This right here. What happened tonight was nothing like was happened in 2012. This was a travesty.

Kamalas CNN interview was so bad she then calmed down for a toned down ABC News interview an hour later. LINK.

NBC News Now reporting that Democrats in the Spin Room mostly hovered around the print media so they wouldn't have to defend Biden on air.

CNN voters say Trump won that debate.

Replace with who? Kamala? I mean usually isn’t that what a VP is for? In case the Pres is incapacitated? What, just pluck somebody else out of a dwindling crowd?

R75 omg. If he steps down during this it becomes an open debate where numerous candidates in the Dem party running will debate to narrow it down to one.

I am gonna bend over and give it up to orange Jesus. My. Lord. My. Savior. My definition of manliness. Vigor. Raw. Sexuality.

Oooh, if Gavin and Junior get within 20 feet of each other......!

Ultimately I blame Obama.

He wanted not only to BE history; he wanted to MAKE history by being Queenmaker to President Hillary Clinton, and thus persuaded his own Vice-President, his traditional heir-apparent, to step aside for THE FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT. To "wait his turn."

And so Joe Biden did. And successfully, too.

But he couldn't make the years wait.

Clinton wasn’t gonna win. Why don’t you get that r79? She lost more than once. Time to let it settle.

Most Americans won’t put a woman to lead this country.

Whitmer should have been VP in 2020 and she makes sense to be the nominee now based on the options available. Newsom will quickly be caricatured as an out of touch coastal elite. Kamala has had her chance to connect with voters and hasn't. Her 2020 campaign was a disaster.

R40 is the Voice of Reason.

Any replacement of Biden will:

Infuriate Black voters if it isn't Kamala Harris, the VICE-PRESIDENT;

Shock rank and file Democrats who appreciate all that Joe has achieved on their behalf, from insulin to roadwork to student loans;

Alarm women, POC, LGBTQ, immigrants, Muslims and other non-Christians, and more;

Dismay long-term big Democratic donors;

Push away anyone even slightly undecided.

No; Joe is staying the Captain of our Democratic ship, though she be named "Pequod."

R80, Is your sarcasm gene defective? I was MOCKING OBAMA'S CHOICE, DUH.

[quote]Joe is staying the Captain of our Democratic ship, though she be named "Pequod."

Great way to summarize the situation if he remains R82.

R79 is making shit up. A talent native to the magat.

Yet Hillary won the Popular Vote, r80

Honest question for people saying that there's no way Kamala can win an election on her own: if we're willing to vote for Joe's rotting corpse to keep Cheetolini out of office, then why wouldn't we suck it up and vote for Harris? In another election, I doubt she'd win, but in this election, how could she possibly be worse than the alternative?

R81, No. Gavin would be done in for (now, consider the point of view I'm using, r80) not being able to govern his state, never mind the nation, as Team Trump runs commercials showing homeless people, the Mexican border, maybe the raw sewage closing S. California beaches.

It doesn't matter if 95% of the state is thriving when the opposition has the money to portray the 5%. All we have are the J-6 videos, and nobody cares anymore about them in regards to Trump.

His personal corruption, and that of his daughter and Jared, mean even less.

Finally, Trump's in your face treason with the stolen documents (yeah, they're stolen when you refuse to return them NQA) is completely forgotten, which is Judge Cannon's Mission Accomplished.

STFU, you imbecile at r85! Yes, to anyone with reading comprehension of English, r79 was my OPINION! Did Obama confide in me?

But the actual history supports my theory, whereas you, DEAR, are reduced to not only calling names, nyah nyah, but to be so misguided as to be a human N. Korean missile!

I am more hard-core Democratic than you could ever hope or pretend to be. Unless you also once voted for Fred Harris, Rev. Jesse Jackson, McGovern, Dukakis, etc.?

Whatever bitch

I had a migraine and went to sleep. Was it as bad as everyone is saying?

R86 mmhmmmm. That’s what they say. Yet she was destroyed and Trump won. She lost twice. Time to move the fuck on.

R90 why does your posting history show you posting after it aired?

Ben Gleib is correct.

[quote][R90] why does your posting history show you posting after it aired?

I may have woken up to go to the bathroom. Sorry for TMI but what an odd question.

Winning the Popular Vote by millions of votes isn't "destroyed " r91.

She won. But magats do not facts, logic or democracy.

Again, that’s what they claimed. She still LOST.

Amidst all the panic, reading Letters from an American has calmed me a bit. Both candidates are old, though physically last night Biden appeared worse. However, he’s done an incredible job fighting for democracy and keeping our economy afloat while the global economy struggles through his policies that continues to help the average American. Furthermore, with only 5 months until Election Day, we have to stand with Biden or we lose either way since I doubt any substitute can rally enough support within that time frame. When our democracy and liberty stands in peril against the far right who have become the pawns of the Russia-China-Iran alliance, we must stand firmly together.

She.Won.

[quote]they claimed

Lol @ "they".... you mean legitimate news sources reporting the election results?

We should’ve listened to David Frum who, post-conviction, urged Biden to not give a debate platform to a felon.

Tim Miller's take in the Bulwark:

[quote] Joe Biden needs to talk with his family.

[quote] And he needs to come out of that conversation either with a plan to pass the torch to a new generation or an unwavering commitment to change course.

[quote] Here’s what changing course looks like. He must summon an energy and a spirit and a forward-looking message that was absent in Atlanta. He must be committed to never letting what happened on Thursday night happen again—never putting on the kind of mumbling, robotic, incoherent performance that the whole world witnessed.

[quote] He must show that he is willing to do everything in his power to win this election. Go out and campaign among real Americans. Demonstrate that he has the vigor and will to earn their trust. He must take the fight to Donald Trump clearly and directly in interviews and on the stump. And he’s going to have to do so in the belly of the beast—on Fox News and in MAGA America to show that he is up for it.

[quote] Only he and Jill know whether he is capable of doing that.

R69, either Harris or Newsom would have to take up residence in a different state for that ticket to work.

What’s disaster for Biden and the inept DNC, after Hillary’s loss in 2016 the whole DNC should’ve been replaced and gutted.

Kim has the dirt on Gavin- and he knows it!

[quote]Trump will skip the 2d debate so it leaves this poor impression of Biden

Time for CNN to substitute a CNN Town Hall with Biden with a full Democratic audience.

This isn't my post but it is R54 from a similar thread thread "I fucking LOATHE Trump, but.." I think it's very well said. I've linked the thread:

"I love Biden and think he’ll be considered one of our best presidents. I’ve been deeply troubled by his approval ratings and concerns about his age. Last night I actually prayed to God he’d do well in the debate. I’m vacationing in France and didn’t watch debate live. But woke to the headlines shortly after the debate ended.

At first I was terribly depressed but then I got excited. This actually gives us a chance to pump some life into our side. Joe should pull an LBJ and say it’s best for the country to step aside for another candidate.

I’m sure the Dems have gamed out a plan to install a new candidate. Hope so anyway.

Biden is a good, decent man who saved democracy. It’s sad to see him in this position but stepping aside will secure his place as a great president".

Harsh but fair

I don’t see a Democrat who can step in. I think Biden needs to show he can do it but maybe he really can’t anymore.

If Clarence, Brett, Samuel, Amy and Neil can't save Trump- he gets sentenced for 34 felonies on July 11th.

If Biden is LBJ, then the world would have been better had he NOT withdrawn.

Give this a 14 day news cycle and a reason for Chicago to not riot.

Plus, see you at the Trump sentencing on July 11th.

R110, he’s not going to jail.

[quote] What’s disaster for Biden and the inept DNC, after Hillary’s loss in 2016 the whole DNC should’ve been replaced and gutted.

What are you yapping about? Democrats voted for Biden is the primary. You’re a moron.

Jill should run.

The DNC got Biden elected in 2020 when Tom Perez coalesced all the Democratic primary candidates behind Biden when Bernie looked to split the convention, and gave credit to Jim Clyburn.

Brit here who got up at 2am to watch, pumped and primed by DL. It was intensely frustrating to know Joe had so many killer knockout blows to devastate Trump, but his lack of verbal vigour meant they didn't land as they should.

On paper Joe's facts and figures mastered Trump of course, but in the debate arena it's rhetorical skill which counts. Trump continues to have the luck of the devil in his opponent. His over-confidence and salesman's bluster underlined Joe's frailty, no matter how meretricious his points.

It's crucial then for Dems to focus on the weight of those facts and figures in Biden's favour, and Trump's total dereliction, away from the cruel exposure of the debate arena. Because talk of further debates is unnerving indeed.

This debate was brutal but necessary for Democrats to realize Biden cannot win. His gaffes were disastrous. His old age and inability to speak clearly were painful to watch.

Given that Americans are used to rapid change in the news cycle, a new candidate would be welcomed. Especially if that candidate is younger and can smack down Trump.

He seemed to not be on his game yesterday. He was probably over prepared and tired. It's the lowest energy I have ever seen Biden.

R119 drank the Kool-aid.

It goes without arguing Biden was an excellent president. And that people who will vote for him now will vote for him no matter what and rightly so. Intellectually, out of the two of them, the Biden vote makes sense.

But, when it comes to Joe (or Kamala or Hillary) these things are not decided entirely on merit. Voters make a general assessment of the candidate and some kind of intangible chemistry test plays a part too. Do they seem the part? (Or more the point, what about them doesn't seem the part?)

But ask yourself, honestly, do you reckon the average American voter is going to decide who to vote for after last night on an intellectual basis?

Do you imagine Joe is going to suddenly perform like an energetic, commanding candidate through to November?

Can you be "the greatest nation on earth", with the country convinced the economy is bad and still feeling inflation at the grocery store, and a razor thin gap in the polls, and be led by an elderly gentleman who under pressure to deliver instead stumbled, slurred, lost his train of thought and reverted to the same old cliches of my dead son and the kitchen table in Scranton?

It seems to me a lot on which to pin the fate of the country and the free world. Last night, Biden was running against Biden. And Biden defeated him.

It would be uphill but a new (younger) candidate - a new, younger version of centrist Biden - could well seize the momentum in comparison to Trump, who was still spouting the same, visionless garbage he always spouts. It's not ideal but I think really think it's doable.

Trump's most lately a convicted felon. What sin is going to come along to save the country from him? He's been doing this shit for ten years and it only gets worse every year and nothing changes.

Who really thinks Trump is going to do something that's going to shift the momentum against Biden?

With more Democrats now not voting because of last night, what will be the impact on the down ballot races?

We must remember that Trump is an actor. He learns his lines very well. What he said last night he may not actually believe, nor remember tomorrow. He has been a Con Man all his life and is, once again, conning America!

Biden is a career politician. He knows the game, and the International audience. Sure, without his notes the buffoon across the stage may have distracted him. That doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability to perform.

Don't let the TV actor confuse you, keep your faith in the proven politician.

A painful autopsy:

Joe Biden is facing calls to stand aside as the Democratic presidential nominee after a disastrous debate performance against Donald Trump.

A group of Democrat congressmen are discussing the need for a new nominee after watching the “disaster” unfold, The New York Times reported, while potential replacements including Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, are being implored to step in.

Mr Biden gave a stuttering and incoherent performance at the debate, hosted by CNN in Atlanta, as he struggled to respond to questions about policy and often trailed off mid-sentence.

David Plouffe, who managed Barack Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign, told the network: “It’s kind of a Defcon 1 moment.”

David Axelrod, another strategist for Mr Obama, said: “I think you’re going to hear discussions that I don’t know will lead to anything but there are going to be discussions about whether he should continue.”

The warning signs for Mr Biden’s were there from the start of the night – from the moment he walked on stage, in fact.

The president looked nervous as he waited in the wings while he was introduced, before stiffly making his way across the stage.

“Folks, how are you?” he said, in a voice that was close to a mumble. As he took his spot, the US president was barely audible as he said, hoarsely: “Great to be here, thank you.”

Mr Axelrod said later in the evening that the Democrat appeared “disoriented” as soon as he stepped on stage.

Mr Trump moved faster and looked younger as he headed towards his own lectern, mouthing a quick “thank you” as he did so.

During the 90-minute debate, Mr Biden spoke in a soft, raspy voice which at times made his answers hard to decipher.

As concern grew over the president’s performance, the White House began to brief out that he had a cold.

The debate in Atlanta, Georgia, opened with questions on the US economy, but Mr Biden repeatedly paused to correct himself as he confused millions and billions and percentage figures.

“What I’m going to do is fix the tax system. For example, we have a thousand trillionaires in America,” Mr Biden said before clearing his throat. “I mean, a thousand billionaires.”

Mr Biden also mixed up a 24 and 25 per cent rate of tax, then lost his train of thought and stared down at his notes.

He added that the tax raise would raise $500 million (£395 million) in a 10 year period, before correcting his statement to $500 billion.

The Biden campaign has touted his stewardship of the economy as a vote-winner for the president.

In the debate’s most excruciating moment for the president, he lost his train of thought while discussing healthcare and tripped over his words before taking a protracted pause.

“We finally beat Medicare,” he began again, before a moderator cut him off.

Mr Biden has in fact proposed increasing taxes on people who earn more than $400,000 to boost spending on the welfare programme for over-65s.

Mr Biden struggled to explain Roe v Wade, the historic 1973 Supreme Court ruling that legalised abortion nationwide.

When asked if he supported restrictions on abortion, Mr Biden rambled that he “supports Roe v Wade, which had three trimesters. The first time is between a woman and a doctor”.

He added: “Second time is between a doctor and an extreme situation. A third time is between the doctor, I mean, between the women and the state.”

In an apparent non-sequitur, Mr Biden also mentioned a young woman who was recently murdered by an immigrant.

i'm still voting democrat.

Then we’re absolutely screwed, r121. Doing a rip and replace this late in the game will make the Dems seem even weaker, more insecure, reactive. And who would it be? Not Newsom.

I think we all should just get used to the fact that we’re going to go down the fascist waterfall. Trump will sail in pretty smoothly I think. The only firewall against that could be the down ballot races. Those candidates all poll several points ahead of Biden.

But truthfully - I think this country needs to experience fascism. Most voters are low information, they need to know personally what that feels like. What that is. Yes, people - many people - will die - institutions will be annihilated. It may destroy this country as we know it. But if the country can somehow get through it, the trauma will be fresh for generations, allowing a better, stronger version of Democracy to emerge.

Of course, it could turn out to be a Franco situation with decades of authoritarian rule. But we are at a harrowing inflection point. The momentum now is in a particular direction. We should be gaming out the inevitability of that.

Politico

NYTimes

All of the usual suspects...

The communists/progressives of the Democratic Party smell blood. They will not accept a centrist if Biden drops out. It’s done. Trump has won. Time to focus on 2028.

[quote] The communists/progressives of the Democratic Party smell blood.

Jamaal Bowman, and perhaps soon Cori Bush, would be available to be elevated to the top of the ticket.

[quote]This debate was brutal but necessary for Democrats to realize Biden cannot win.

This was a brutal but necessary wake-up call that you can only beat a skilled reality show actor by using reality show methods.

I wish I could vote for JD Vance. He looks good and I like his voice.

I like Gretchen Whitmer. But, she wouldn't be able to beat Trump. The US is still a very sexist country. I have to laugh at this dumb ass Scottish journalist who thinks Whitmer could beat Trump. These people don't get that sexism is still rampant in the US.

Seeing several reports that GOP lost minority support last night.

CNN's focus group was 14 people. 7 people said Biden won, 6 said Trump won, and 1 person was undecided. Univision or Telemundo, whichever it was, had a focus group that basically said Trump was batshit crazy and Biden won.

[quote] The communists/progressives of the Democratic Party smell blood. They will not accept a centrist if Biden drops out. It’s done. Trump has won. Time to focus on 2028.

The progressives in the Democratic party have done quite a bit of damage since 2016. They pretty much hate centrist or other Democrats who aren't on the far-left spectrum. Rashida Tlaib has done quite of damage in recent months with her anti-Biden campaign. When Trump wins, Tlaib will be rightfully shunned in some Democratic circles in her home state of Michigan. Debbie Dingell, Gary Peters, Gretchen Whitmer, Shri Thanedar, Haley Stevens, Hillary Scholten, and Elissa Slotkin will probably avoid Tlaib like the plague after November.

Surely the team helping Biden prep for the debate must have noticed that he seemed tired, confused, and off his game. Why did they let him go through with the debate in that condition? If it's true that Biden was battling a cold, why didn't they say he couldn't debate because he had laryngitis? Or lie and say he had COVID? Yes, there would have been some speculation that Biden was dropping out because he was too afraid to debate, but that still would have been better than what we witnessed last night. ANYTHING would have been better than what we witnessed last night. The fact that Biden's team let him go through with the debate makes me wonder if they thought, "Yes, Biden's a train wreck, but this is as good as it's ever going to get."

The covid lie wouldn't work in 2024. CDC no longer recommends isolation.

Nothing about Trump's performance last night attracted anyone who wasn't already supporting him. Many things about Trump's performance (shameless, relentless lying) made people disgusted and offended.

Biden isn't leaving the race. Trump is very beatable. But Biden and his team have to step up and repair the disturbing, disastrous performance last night... it did not look like Biden was competent. He looked confused and fragile. "We finally beat medicare."

The Dems have to figure this out. I don't have solutions.

[quote] Univision or Telemundo, whichever it was, had a focus group that basically said Trump was batshit crazy and Biden won.

Univision

[quote] I wish I could vote for JD Vance.

He’s DeSantis.

[quote] Nothing about Trump's performance last night attracted anyone who wasn't already supporting him. Many things about Trump's performance (shameless, relentless lying) made people disgusted and offended.

0/10

Axios of course goes with the usual suggestion like Buttigieg, Whitmer, and Newsom. But, the author does mention J.B. Pritzker. But, Christian nationalism would likely keep Pritzker from defeating Trump.

R135, American will vote for a female president but only a conservative one.

How exactly do you think Biden can be rehabilitated? He’s 81, feeble and demonstrates increasing cognitive decline. He said crazy shit at the debate like “we beat Medicare.” Time to step aside.

[quote] But, the author does mention J.B. Pritzker. But, Christian nationalism would likely keep Pritzker from defeating Trump.

Hon…

In May 2017, the Chicago Tribune[27] published an 11-minute FBI wiretap of Pritzker and then-Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich in 2008 discussing campaign contributions and options for Pritzker to be appointed to statewide office.[28] At the time, Pritzker was described as a "businessman with political ambitions". On the tapes, Blagojevich asked Pritzker if he would like to be appointed state treasurer, to which Pritzker, who has a background in finance, responded, "Yeah, that's the one I would want." Pritzker's general election opponent GOP Governor Bruce Rauner and Pritzker's Democratic primary opponents took issue with his conduct.[29] Pritzker responded to the allegations: "I've not been accused of any wrongdoing. I have not done anything wrong."[30] Law enforcement made no allegations of wrongdoing against Pritzker, and he has said: "over decades of my life, I have been doing public service, and the opportunity to continue to do public service as treasurer of the state was something that had been brought up, and so there was a conversation about that."[31]

Pritzker later apologized for a number of controversial and incendiary comments he made in that conversation. He and Blagojevich discussed filling Barack Obama's U.S. Senate seat, with Pritzker saying that appointing then-Secretary of State Jesse White would "cover you on the African-American thing" and that he was the "least offensive" candidate.[32]

Team Newsom-Whitmer.

Biden should just take a page from Trump's book & call it a PERFECT debate.

President Josh Shapiro

On the other hand Sen Fetterman is saying the Democrats should "chill the fuck out"...

Trump: "the immigrant rapists are taking black jobs!!" That does not help him.

Eric Schultz says "Everybody, Take a Breath":

[quote] Team Newsom-Whitmer.

AKA Team Loser.

America loathes these two. Every bad stereotype. They tried kidnapping her for a reason. The same goes with his recall. Trump Jr’s gf is Gavin’s ex and will spill mountains of drunk. Gavin is a womanizing drunk. He sent California into the ground by taking a surplus and turning it into a massive deficit.

To me, Newsom looks as smarmy as Don Jr., with his hair styled just like my dad's was in the early 60s.

Maybe that's why Kimberly liked them both.

I didn't watch mainly because the sight and sound of Trump is deeply offensive to me and I'm still voting Biden.

Oh dear the illegals are taking the black jobs!

[quote] He said crazy shit at the debate like “we beat Medicare.”

And you know the "we beat Medicare" soundbite will show up over and over again in Trump campaign ads. Last night's debate was a dream come true for the GOP advertising machine. (And yes, I know that Trump has said even crazier, more incoherent shit. But "our candidate is less crazy and less incoherent than your candidate" isn't exactly a winning strategy.)

[quote] Team Newsom-Whitmer.

AKA Team Loser.

America loathes these two. Every bad stereotype. They tried kidnapping her for a reason. The same goes with his recall. Trump Jr’s gf is Gavin’s ex and will spill mountains of dirt. Gavin is a womanizing drunk. He sent California into the ground by taking a surplus and turning it into a massive deficit.

One of America’s top concerns is crime. California is the Wild West now.

Americans don’t want progressive politics, ie Newsom.

Why oh why doesn't anyone know how to deal with Trump? The format of the debate, where the moderators just sat there like human microphones letting him spew his humbug without insisting he answer the question was perfect for him. I realize Biden agreed to it and one hopes he learned the lesson. Next debate must have moderators who actually moderate ffs.

Still waiting for my daily dose of optimism from Simon Rosenberg, but he's gone dark on us.

[quote] Americans don’t want progressive politics, ie Newsom.

A progressive will never be elected POTUS. In the past few years, I have seen stupid journalists mention AOC as a possible president and it's hilarious because if she did run for president it would be another Bernie Sanders type result. Newsom and AOC would have zero chance of ever being elected POTUS.

The majority of Democrats want somebody else. Replacing him with a younger candidate would energize voters, which is something that Biden has not been able to do this year. The fear of Trump is the only that's keeping Biden afloat. That's not how you win a tight election.

Hillary's comments a few months ago that Biden's age is a legitimate concern was a hint to Democrats that we needed to replace him now. As usual, Hillary was 100% right and she got demonized for speaking the truth.

The problem is this wasn't a one off. This is him, constantly.

How do you recover from this?

Hmmm....

We have an accomplished President how performed weakly during a debate. And we have a former president who was a disaster on all fronts who did nothing but lie throughout the same debate trying to win back the office. Poor Hillary, who won the popular vote by millions thought she was going to debate tRump on policy - and that absolutely won't work with sleaze like tRump.

I voted for Biden and will absolutely vote for him again. This election is not about policy and philosophical party differences. This election is all about whether we will continue to have a democracy or move to something much worse. I truly wish we had other choices on both sides when debates actually served a purpose. But we don't.

I am 62 and doing everything I can to retire at 64. I have no plans to sit on my ass but the thought of continuing in the rat race let alone be President is something I am not interested in. I do not know why any reasonable 78-year-old, or an 81-year-old would want to spend their time either. And yes, I realize in tRump's part, it is all part of his psychosis. For Biden, I believe it is more his love of country and the same fear of another tRump presidency that will more than likely not end until he is dead.

I am ever hopeful that tRump will continue to piss people off between now and the election and that will have a greater impact than Biden's performance last night.

Joe’s gotta go, by this week.

Kamala, due to ingrained sexism and bigotry of Americans, won’t defeat Trump. She’s gotta be offered, and accept, a “save face” job.

Plouffe was right. This is a DEFCON 1 moment.

Of course, Biden is by a universe degree the better person than that POS Trump,

But this can’t be emphasized enough-Time, Aging, and Gravity are relentless.

Biden is going to diminish.

The Democrats' game plan appears to have been:

1) Choose a man who's showing signs of dementia as our presidential candidate

2) ???

3) Hope people will vote to keep him in office until the age of 86

For fuck's sake.

Oh no, Biden stuttered a bit, guess we'll all vote for the fascist, said only the cunts who were going to vote for the fascist in the first place.

Get a grip.

Ask yourself, if Joe was the Republican candidate, what would you be saying today? Honestly?

Stuttered a bit?

[quote]Oh no, Biden stuttered a bit

Pay close attention to what Obama and Hillary say in the coming days. That will be your tell to see if Biden is getting replaced or not.

Not exactly, Kit. Don't throw around the "showing signs of dementia" because stumbling over words when discussing complex issues is not how dementia presents. I'm not saying Biden didn't look diminished. He did. He should have come out and told America that he had a cold; better yet, if he was showing these signs before the debate, the campaign should have lied, said he had Covid, and postpone the debate for a couple weeks.

I've been through death by dementia and I've been through a slow decline lasting nearly 10 years, and I never once lost confidence that my slowly-declining father was capable of making rational decisions even when he had trouble expressing them when under stressful conditions right up until the end. And I knew my mother was gone when she made a series of obviously bad decisions that my siblings and I had to step in to reverse and take control, and she lived another 6 years. Worlds apart. The one thing we're not hearing this morning is that Biden insiders are worried that he has lost cognitive abilities. Biden showed signs that he was tired, possibly physically ill with a cold, and over prepared (that he misspoke and confused statistics supports my thesis).

[quote] Joe’s gotta go, by this week.

I think they'll wait for the polls coming the week of 7/8 to see how bad, if at all, it was for his re-elect chances.

[quote] Pay close attention to what Obama and Hillary say in the coming days. That will be your tell to see if Biden is getting replaced or not.

I'd replace Hillary with Pelosi. I think she has the greater pull within the party.

Pelosi is too old.

Amy Klobuchar would be a good president. But, we all know why she would never get elected.

Biden has completely forgotten what happened last night and where he was, so why can’t everyone else?

[quote]Don't throw around the "showing signs of dementia" because stumbling over words when discussing complex issues is not how dementia presents.

Merely stumbling over words?? Did you actually watch the debate?

R175, sorry to hear about your parents. But I do think Biden has been showing signs of dementia for a while. He's publicly said twice that Beau died in Iraq. He said he got arrested trying to visit Nelson Mandela in prison in the 80s, and that Mandela personally thanked him after he was released - it never happened. He asked if a congresswoman was at a summit two months after she was killed in a car crash. There have been signs for ages. I don't understand why the Democrats have allowed this situation to progress as far as it has.

I'm finally watching the debate and forming my own opinion. Yes, Biden looks weak and a bit feeble, but his answers are logical and coherent mostly. Trump's just babbling and spewing lies.

Of course, like others have said it all boils down to optics.

I wish, in the devastating moment, he'd looked at the camera and just said:

"I'm sorry folks. I'm terrible at this. I'm terrible at speeches, I'm terrible delivering messages, I'm terrible at the whole damn circus of election campaigns. But you know what I'm not terrible at? My love of this country and my drive to make sure it's offering its best to the biggest number of Americans, so you can build the lives you want with a system that's working for you, not against you." And then blah blah blah.

The one thing I think a majority of Americans believe is that Joe Biden has a good heart and he truly cares about regular people. He should have reclaimed that. They should have prepped him for that. If the people around him can't tell him or his wife there's a huge campaign problem and it starts at the top. But anyway, it's too late now. The dye has set for good.

[quote] Pelosi is too old.

I meant that we need to look to Pelosi, not Hillary, to (along with Obama) have the come to Jesus talk with Biden.

R183, Not to be pedantic, but I think the expression you want is "the die is cast":

Nancy Pelosi is 84.

R182 here. When Biden misspeaks, he knows it and corrects himself. It’s almost like anxiety.

I wonder if he should do like FDR and do fireside chats weekly instead of another debate.

I keep hearing how Biden did. How did Turd do? Did the mods keep him in check?

R188 his voice was stronger but he lied and was wrong about a lot of things, especially his policy. The moderators were good with keeping time limits but not fact checking.

Biden was let off the hook with investigators because he was a demented old man. Read the report. That should have been the wake up call.

Pelosi? Hillary? Newsom? Witmer? Jesus fucking Christ, liberals have no fucking clue what country they’re living in. They’re too busy living in their ivory towers to know. Keep concentrating on identity politics, trannys, pronouns, and attacking whites and Jews. This is why conservatism is taking over the world. People are sick to death of condescending liberals.

Turd did what he always does r188. He lied like a motherfucker. But he did it looking strong and in control and restrained and much, much better than Biden, who looked old and feeble and out of place.

That said, I think everyone will calm the fuck down within a week and the talk of Biden stepping aside and a magical perfect candidate stepping in will die down. But it was definitely a big setback and after Biden gets some damn rest and gets over this cold and stops looking like an over-rehearsed underperforming douche, he will have to get back out there and do whatever he can to erase this terrible image he left at the debate, leading up to the convention.

[quote] he will have to get back out there and do whatever he can to erase this terrible image he left at the debate

And the terrible image of the last three years of his presidency

And that's how we all know you're either a Trumpista r193 or a dingbat leftist who lives in a fantasy world where only Bernie or maybe Tulsi can hold this country together.

Fuck off. It's been a very, very successful presidency overall. Only a dumbfuck can deny that.

Again, this isn't a one off.

Ask yourself, is he better than he was four years ago?

Successful presidency isn't a successful campaign.

[quote] People are sick to death of condescending liberals.

And since you're the voice of the people, what, pray tell, do they make of a monstrous clown like Trump?

R196 But the latter is the enabling condition for success.

True r196, but neither is one debate.

As I say, we'll probably have a good cry for a week or so, do what Democrats do best and descend into hysterics and despair, and then realize we actually have a campaign to win if we will get our shit together.

It isn't just one debate. It's the latest in a ruinous series of performances that make people question his ability to go forward for four more years. Come on.

He did great at the State of the Union and the Correspondents dinner. no, it hasn't been some endless series of looking bad. It hasn't.

This was a big one though, and it will take effort to undo it. It did reinforce everything that makes people nervous, that is true, but I do not agree it's hopeless and there's no coming back. The one correct strategic decision they made was to do in June, so there is still time and a ton of things will happen even between now and the Convention.

[quote]He did great at the State of the Union and the Correspondents dinner. no, it hasn't been some endless series of looking bad. It hasn't.

Agreed. Just mostly.

I'm seriously considering becoming the what would you honestly be saying about his viability if a Republican had delivered that performance last night troll?

Jesus.

First Hillary, now this. Democrats just love to lose on principle.

The clip on "he did beat medicare, he beat it to death" is like something from "Veep".

If Biden sinks in the polls, which is likely, then he's getting replaced at the convention. He won't survive a disastrous debate performance and then falling behind by 10 points in the polls. Other Democratic candidates will not want him at the top of the ticket, since it will likely mean defeat for them, too.

[quote] I wish, in the devastating moment, he'd looked at the camera and just said: "I'm sorry folks. I'm terrible at this. I'm terrible at speeches, I'm terrible delivering messages, I'm terrible at the whole damn circus of election campaigns. But you know what I'm not terrible at? My love of this country and my drive to make sure it's offering its best to the biggest number of Americans, so you can build the lives you want with a system that's working for you, not against you." And then blah blah blah.

That would be great as a concession speech on election night, but it doesn’t have any value at this time.

Oh no

None of the commentary matters at this point. It is all Joe's decision. If he doesn't step aside in the next few days, he'll never step down and so we'll need to figure out how best to beat Trump. Nothing Trump did last night helped Trump. It's all in Biden's hands. Pray for guidance for Joe.

Just watched the Raleigh rally live. Joe back on the horse in front of an adoring crowd. He looked ten years younger than he did last night. Fact-checked and mocked Trump vigorously. Back to his SOTU form. Not the affect of a man mulling over his position.

[quote] Still waiting for my daily dose of optimism from Simon Rosenberg, but he's gone dark on us.

Simon has spoken.

[quote] Just watched the Raleigh rally live. Joe back on the horse in front of an adoring crowd. He looked ten years younger than he did last night. Fact-checked and mocked Trump vigorously. Back to his SOTU form. Not the affect of a man mulling over his position.

Debate Lands 47.9 Million Viewers

47.9 million watched Joe flake out

Damn, that was nice. Thanks, R210.

^^^

Longer version

Rightwing Newsweek

[quote] If you haven't been watching the Univision FG of undecided Latino voters, nearly every single undecided voter said they now support Biden, not Trump! Latinos were watching and listening and Trump sounded like a crazy liar.

r214, that is actually very touching

[quote] Even the New York Times comment section has a "Mary!" brigade.

This made me laugh 😂🤣😭

[quote] A group of undecided Latino voters said they would vote for President Joe Biden after watching his Thursday night debate with former President Donald Trump.

" nearly every single undecided voter said they now support Biden"

A "group" of handpicked Univision Latinos written up as if they were a broad spectrum. Univision was all in for Biden in before and apparently still is.

R214 That's beautiful and powerful and boy we need to see it today.

Joe can do the job. That's why I'll vote for him, canvass for him, and keep giving him money.

He can be a good president. The unanswered question is will he be a good candidate in 2024. Time will tell. I just hope that America understands not only is Trump a liar, an autocrat, and in the pocket of the rich and criminal... but that Joe really is committed to fighting for the "regular people"....

Time will tell.

R219 America, 2024. All data that supports what we already believe are good. All data that challenges what we already believe are questionable.

Stuart Stevens weighs in.

If they want Biden to step down, like LBJ, we have to look back and decide if 1968 was worth it. LBJ withdrew, Hubert Humphry became the Democratic nominee and Nixon/Agnew THE MOST FUCKING CORRUPT REPUBLICAN TICKET IN HISTORY, won in a landslide even with racist George Wallace running as a third party candidate.

Baby MAGA won in 1968. LBJ should have not given up. LBJ threw us to the wolves. We have to believe that any replacement at this time will ALSO LOSE TO TRUMP.

See you in Chicago Joe.

See you at the sentencing on 7/11, Donnie.

More Stuart Stevens.

And more.

We needed a third base coach last night

R226 Biden, never, ever should have had that debate.

Unless, ok, let's acknowledge he is old, stammers, gets lost in a thought sometimes... ok, we all see that, admit it. Now, next step: what is Trump for (Christo-authoritarian limits on liberty, concentration camps, appeasing Putin, and tax cuts and breaks for the super-rich) and what Joe is for (you).

Maybe Biden had several alcoholic beverages (to relax) and was drunk

It’s possible

R228, I wish that was the explanation.

Watching feom abroad, I want to be reimbursed for the colossal cringe moment when Biden let himself be baited into a discussion about golfing, virility and I don't know, culminating in Trump saying something like "Let's not behave like children, shall we?" Brutal. How can you let this happen?

[quote] How can you let this happen?

Because 𝐷𝑜𝑐𝑡𝑜𝑟 Jill wants to stay in the White House

that was a low point r230. Biden fucked up there. It's part of the thing he has to make up for now, but I suspect he will. but that's the thing. Nothing ever just ends in this country, or Trump would've been done when the pussy grabbing tape came out in 2016. He wasn't, because life goes on, things fade, and the sides reform themselves.

Comeback Kid will have an amazing Convention.

[quote] Pay close attention to what Obama and Hillary say in the coming days. That will be your tell to see if Biden is getting replaced or not.

Here ya go, R174

Well, I guess that's that.

I think he will r233. This will wake him up, I think, and yes I get the irony of that. But I do think he was starting to imagine coasting a little, and now he knows he can't at all. I think he will be stronger than ever, and angrier, and it will work out well for him.

Let’s start the rumor Trump will send our troops to Russia to fight Ukraine

[quote] Let’s start the rumor Trump will send our troops to Russia to fight Ukraine

Sure, persuade all the neocons to abandon Biden and his wars to run back to Trump. That will help Jill.

[quote]He did great at the State of the Union and the Correspondents dinner.

I agree. However the State of the Union was a prepared speech with no one five feet away from him lying as Trump did. No one at the State of the Union was throwing questions at him. The SOTU was prepared. And yes, Joe was great. But last night's debate was not the SOTU.

I am sticking with Biden until he says he's done. We must defeat Trump. The stakes are too high. But perception is reality, and last night was not good.

[quote]I wish, in the devastating moment, he'd looked at the camera and just said: "I'm sorry folks. I'm terrible at this. I'm terrible at speeches, I'm terrible delivering messages, I'm terrible at the whole damn circus of election campaigns.

Today.

[quote]Which raises the important question, why did Joe Biden eat shit so fucking hard last night? Because don’t be snowed, it was fuckin’ bad. And here’s our Joe, the real one. DO DO DO rewind to the beginning — Biden starts 9 minutes in (they’ve now clipped it) — and watch, if you aren’t already.

There will be no such thing as a "normal" debate as long as there is a Dump on the floor.

It must kill Obama to have to prop up Joe like this. I mean there's duty and then there's above and beyond.

NYT editorial board

R228, neither Biden nor Trump drink alcohol. So, not really possible.

Biden knows that you cannot run 100% 24/7.

This is all about ebb and flow until early voting.

Prediction: The Convention will be about running against, not Trump, but the entire corrupt Republican Party from the corrupt Supreme Court, all the way down to the corrupt Senators who kept Trump in power and Trumps Republicans in the House that fired up the insurrection.

Biden will declare war on the ENTIRE Republican Party.

R243 The NYT would love nothing better than for Biden to drop out so that Trump has a better chance of winning again.

Sorry but no one cares if Biden did well at a rally today. The debate is the event that was matched by millions of people, and what they saw was horrifying.

and in a week nobody will really care about that r247. And a week after that they'll be focused on the crazy cunts at the Republican convention, who I suspect will be saying the craziest shit.

Also it feels like gaslighting that the Dem leadership is rally around Biden, with no reflection. That is a huge turnoff especially for younger voters or people who don't want a senile president.

R249 Then vote for Trump, man.

R248, they won’t remember the details, but they’ll remember the feeling, the feeling that Biden is too old and too far gone to be president,.

It's gaslighting to support the nominee r249?

Oh, fuck off, you sad twat.

The Sad Twat Troll. Thanks r252.

[quote] [R248], they won’t remember the details, but they’ll remember the feeling, the feeling that Biden is too old and too far gone to be president,.

And the video clips of Biden from the debate will live on on social media and in GOP campaign ads. There is no way that last night's debate will be forgotten. It really was that bad. And if Biden was just having an "off night" despite having spent a week preparing for the debate, what assurance do we have that Biden won't have more "off nights" between now and election day?

Please, do you know how many clips there are of Trump looking like a complete cunt, as of course he is 90% of the time. Do you think anybody gives a fuck? This will come down to whether or not we want to put an inept criminal back in charge in November, or not.

And they will be replaced with videos of Biden at the Democratic Convention.

I can't believe that so many of you seemed to have believed that this wasn't going to happen. For the last year Biden barely knows who he is and can barely walk. For fucks sake they surround him with staffers whenever he walks outside so you can't see him. Did you really believe the cheap, deep fakes they spouted?

[quote] Joe can do the job

R220 Have you seen him? He is old. I cannot think of any job he would be physically fit for. He can't walk more than a few steps. He can't react in real time to spoken words. It's time to enjoy retirement. Shame on the enablers who propped him up only to lead him to the slaughter that was this debate.

Maybe a bagger at Stop & Shop. When you do most of the work anyway because he walks away mid order.

The Tranz Community, proving once again they ONLY care about themselves, are promptly attacking Biden again. The same Biden who has done more for them than anyone else who ever occupied the White House. They are openly announcing their protests schedule on social media.

Let go Joe! Run to the light!

LOL you think Trump wants Biden off the ticket? This whole debate thing was a setup by the democrats to get him off the ticket.

OP - Do I need to have seen parts one and two to follow part three, or does it stand alone?

I'll catch you up:

Joe lied his presidential hopes died. It's all the fault of Boris. Hi Hillary! Stop letting Trump talk.

I find it all very sad.

We won't know what to do until we see The Polls. The next 2 weeks of Polls.

I’ve just finished watching the debate (I’d taped it) and have some thoughts:

Biden did not come off as badly as people claim. True, he had a weak start, but seemed to get invigorated as Trump spouted lie after lie and attacked him and his presidency with every comment he made. Biden’s presentation seems to be his biggest issue, to me at least - open mouth, blank expression, looking down which looks like his eyes are closed…

Trump just reeks of evil.

Agree r267. But, Biden did seem incoherent at times.

[quote] he had a weak start, but seemed to get invigorated as Trump spouted lie after lie and attacked him and his presidency with every comment he made.

An invigorated dementia sufferer can come across even worse than a calm one.