Bea Arthur and Betty White Sing about Friendship Just Moments after Betty won the Emmy over Bea and Rue

Betty rubs Bea's back and Bea does not reciprocate

Finally. A real DataLounge thread!

Eve Arden looks terrible.

That would suck having to perform after you just lost

And it sounds like Eve's mike went out.

The 1986 Emmys should have been a glorious time for the Golden Girls. Instead, it was chilly on the set the next morning because Bea and Susan Harris (nominated for writing the pilot but lost to fellow GG writers Barry Fanaro and Mort Nathan) were pissed about losing. You'd think winning Best Comedy Series is something they would all celebrate.

Was Beatrice given the opening of the song because she is the one most associated as a Broadway singer?

I should have been given opening part of the song!

If Bea had submitted "Guess Who's Coming to the Wedding" instead of "The Triangle," she may very well have won.

Another frump thread.

Mort Nathan and Barry Fanaro deserved the Emmy. Susan was just bitter. In truth, Nathan and Fanaro wrote most of the show's best episodes.

Bea's dress is damn ugly

Susan deserves credit for creating the show - bravo - but also blame far the horrible Chronic Fatigue Syndrome episodes, which started the decent from quality television to the series becoming a parody of itself.

The last two years (three to be honest) were abysmal.

All of their dresses looks like they were designed by their worst enemies.

Season 7 was horrible.

Susan wrote some good episodes but also some of the most infamous ones - Chronice Fatigue and Rita Moreno's barren nest episode.

Rue's dress is noticably hideous! I wonder if even as she was singing the song, Bea was plotting her revenge and plotting how she was going to order three bean burritos from Del Taco on the way to the set one morning so that right before the lunch break she would be ready to "drop some friends off" on the floor of Betty's dressing room.

R13- Sorry but GG was never that good to begin with.

[quote] Season 7 was horrible.

I stop watching reruns after Season 4. And even some of that is questionable.

When they turned Rose into the Valene Ewing of “The Golden Girls,” it was time to jump ship.

[quote] Sorry but GG was never that good to begin with.

Then why the fuck are you in this thread?

Go start an “ALF” thread where you can be happy.

Bea was given top billing in the number because, out of everyone on that stage, she had the best voice, the biggest musical theater career, and the biggest schlong.

OP- In that video are all of the older guest stars of Love Boat.

Season 7 was great! Seasons 4-6 have a lot of bad episodes each.

R23=Posey McGlinn

I thought that R23 sounded more like an image consultant who eschews labels.

Harris barely wrote any episodes. She was having health issues from the start.

She could barely lift her arms in the shower to wash her hair!

I hated how nasty some of the writing got in the end. Dorothy referring to the other girls as “a slut and a moron” got an easy laugh but really didn’t feel like something she’d have said after all those years.

But I also love some episodes from the final season like “The Case of the Libertine Belle,” “Journey to the Center of Attention” and the lesbian lovers of Miami episode.

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome screams late 80s, attention whore. It was the nonbinary of its time.

They gave Susan Harris a producing credit in the 2nd season so she could get an Emmy.

Was Jayne Meadows there with her twin sister?

Bea's thinking, "Betty, you fucking cunt!"

Cast list.

What are Shari Lewis and Lambchop doing there?

LOL @ Imogene Coca really getting into it!

R34 You beat me to it! I was just reading about what Shari was doing in 1986 and didn’t find anything. She returned to TV in the 1990s. Sadly, she died in 1998 from viral pneumonia after chemo for inoperable uterine cancer. She was only 65 years old.

I think I actually like the song they're singing.

The infamous chronic fatigue episode does in fact contain my favorite Rue performance in the whole series (the whole insomnia /tortured writer bit, "I see little balls of sunshine in a bag!")

Bea did an interview on the Tonight Show (with Bill Cosby filling in for Johnny Carson) a couple of weeks after this show. Bea spends most of the time talking about her Emmy win for Maude and how the dress she wore to the recent Emmys was one she had worn in public before.

Betty winning was not mentioned.

What's really strange is that Lucy was on earlier in the evening presenting an honorary award to Red Skeleton.

Yet neither Red or Lucy are in the finale.

When Betty walks out, I keep waiting for Bea to push her offstage.

Bea was too tired to push.

Gary talked her out of it, r40.

Beatrice tries to upstage Sammy Davis Jr. and George Burns. She is shameless.

[quote]What's really strange is that Lucy was on earlier in the evening

Speaking of Lucy and songs about friendship:

[quote]my favorite Rue performance in the whole series (the whole insomnia /tortured writer bit, "I see little balls of sunshine in a bag!"

That's one of my favorites too, R38.

Who is the man next to Dick Clark, not Milton Berle but the other side?

Rue’s performance in the Chronic Fatigue episode is her best work — she’s spectacular.

Does anyone remember who was expected to win? Why did Rue and Bea submit shit episodes?

In the first three seasons, it ALMOST seemed coordinated that 2 of the 3 actresses would submit crap episodes, allowing the 3rd actress to win. Given Bea's resentment over losing, I guess we can safely assume that was NOT the case.

Rue should have submitted "Nice and Easy," "Adult Education," or "Second Motherhood."

Or maybe Rue should have even submitted "The Transplant." There were several Blanche-centered episodes in the first season, but I can't remember any hilarious Blanche moments in any of them.

Honestly, I wonder if Rue would have had better luck submitting "A Little Romance." It's not technically a Blanche episode, but damn she has some moments. "Shrimp?"

It's a disgrace Betty was nominated over Rue for S6 & S7. Rue deserved a nod for her work in the episodes George returns from the grave, Grammy's plantation, the legendary Rusty Wanker episode or "Made me feel like a lady episode".

Betty's nominated performances couldn't top any of that, sorry

The Rusty Anchor episode is overrated drivel written by that awful Marc Cherry

[quote]Rue’s performance in the Chronic Fatigue episode is her best work — she’s spectacular.

And she didn't receive an Emmy nod that season.

Only Betty (Best Actress) and Estelle (Supporting Actress) were nominated for all 7 seasons.

Bea and Rue stopped being nominated after Season 4.

By season 7, the writing was horrid and mean spirited. I think the ladies, especially Bea, were also tired.

R54 should create a fan fiction of all three leading actresses nominated for the entire seven-year run and which episodes they would submit.

R58 I would love to! Someone on here pointed out that there was a lot of resentment that the three ladies dominated the Emmy category for years and there was pressure to nominate other actresses instead. I just thought Betty didn't do much out of the ordinary to merit a nomination every year over Bea and Rue

R59 I guess in the nomination process, it helps to be popular with the TV academy. And Betty had popularity in spades.

Does Susan Harris has one last hit TV show left in her?

I wonder if the other ladies even spoke to Betty after the song?

[quote][R59] I guess in the nomination process, it helps to be popular with the TV academy. And Betty had popularity in spades.

Not to mention that Bea, Rue, and Estelle all started out in the theater before making the transition to television, whereas Betty was a TV pioneer who began working straight out of high school during the medium's infancy..

I wonder what was going through Estelle Getty's mind during that performance. Just a year earlier, she was completely unknown and there she is on stage with television royalty.

For Best Comedy Series, do shows have to submit just one episode? If so, I wonder which shows they submitted for each year the show was nominated.

Bea is really ugly when she says "unique."

In "A Little Romance," Blanche has quite a few classic scenes.

1) God, I wish I was dead

2) Shrimp?

3) I went to my senior prom with a yankee!

If Bea had won first, would the Bea/Betty feud even happened?

Bea had first billing because she really had the biggest TV resume when the show started - she was the only one of the ladies who had been a lead on a TV show, and I wonder if she had pull around the publicity stuff, like being the one to sing at the Emmys and so forth.

Didn't Betty have the lead as Elizabeth?

Bea was never asked to sing at the Emmys again.

[quote] It's a disgrace Betty was nominated

Agreed.

Betty is wearing her victory bouffant

Alternate history.

"It's a tie! The winners are Betty White and Rue McClanahan"

R28 thats one of my favorite moments. They all mercilessly shaded each other because it was funny and meant to be so. In this case it was because Dorothy was on a bad mood and lackibg caffeine. It wasnt meant to represent realistic friendships. This is a show that changed the character's back stories every episode.

That said, I DID have a problem when they shiwed Sophia joining in on calling her daughter ugly, so I kind of see where you're coming from. But it's one thing for the shade to come from "friends" and another from her own damn mother.

My only problem with the last couple of seasons is that they became more plot dependent and focused less on them. I missed the late night cheesecake talks where they just randomly talked about anything, they are what made me love the show.

There was absolutely no warmth from the earlier seasons detected in Season 7

R48 her best was in the show's second episode. The monologue to Stan is beautiful and touching. Oddly they never gave her alot more material like that. She acted angry more than anything during the chronic fatigue episodes and she never really moved me then. Only other time she did was in the "What'll I do" scene of season 7.

Rue had the best dramatic chops and it's why she had the bulk of the tearjerky momentsm

R75 I thought it was all because of the stroke that caused Sophia to be mean.

Season 7 Dorothy was just awful

The bigger Dorothy's hair gets, the less likely I am to enjoy the episode.

Bea lost! Bea lost!

It was definitely Bea and Betty’s show in the pilot so I can see how there would have been a rivalry. Blanche is an afterthought who keeps going into the other room in that first episode.

That was the longtime Miss America host Bert Parks next to Dick Clark, R47.

R80 Pure character assassination. They morphed Dorothy from a strong, commanding character filled with agency into a shy, pathetic lonely heart with no life. Dorothy always had dates in the early seasons. Suddenly, she was afraid of her own shadow and terribly unfunny.

Bea’s performance the last few seasons - especially 7 - was so low energy. It was Dorothy on benzos. Gone was the booming voice and theatrical energy. She gave it almost zero effort.

I’m shocked she didn’t protest her character becoming unrecognizable. Maybe she wanted to be seen as softer.

Either way, Season 7 is garbage.

Arthur’s voice became really gravelly as time went by.

R80 I love Dorothy but my god she was propped to the high heavens in the last season. She was the smartest, Blanche was jealous of her singing, guys were falling over themselves for her, and that finale? It was a never ending prop fest to her greatness.

R18 we're not allowed to say that here. The caftan queens will stomp their hooves and stampede until they get blood.

Season 7 has the most cringeworthy, awful, and unfunny bits in GG history. I'm talking about that horrid Camptown Races scene.

[quote]Bea’s performance the last few seasons - especially 7 - was so low energy. It was Dorothy on benzos. Gone was the booming voice and theatrical energy. She gave it almost zero effort.

The absolute worst in in the Cheesman episode where they get held up. Bea's reaction is so half assed and weirdly out of sync with everybody else.

She wanted to leave the show after season five because she felt they had said everything they needed to say. In a way she was right. Having her remarry Stan was a waste of time, and the finale was fucking awful and a betrayal to the message of the show. That no matter what, they would always be together.

Almost remarry Stan I mean

[quote] Season 7 has the most cringeworthy, awful, and unfunny bits in GG history. I'm talking about that horrid Camptown Races scene.

Awful. All of it.

One of the worst moments was the finale, where Sophia gives Dorothy some horrid speech about giving her confidence to move on in life as she prepared to walk down the aisle.

Bitch, you were in an old-folks home that burned down and she let you live with her instead of shipping you to another one! Meanwhile, you called her ugly and undesirable daily and hooked up her slimy ex-husband with her sister.

Good grief, what shitty writing.

I liked when she almost remarried Stan but I didn't like when they threw the character under the bus again and made him at fault for the marriage not happening. They never let him grow, and it gave them an excuse to continue using him as a punching bag. That ridiculous shit with the stuffed monkey or whatever that was was in S7 almost cruel in how they ridiculed the character.

Fat, talentless Marc Cherry seemed to turn Dorothy into his own, personal “Mary Sue:” an unlovable, undateable loser with no sex life who everyone hates.

r86 blame the booze.

When I first watched the series I was all about Betty White's performance. On my latest re-watch though I was really struck by Rue. She has the most moments of three-dimensional acting, where I believe Blanche is more than a sitcom character. There's a moment she has at the end of an episode on the phone with her daughter that's some of the most effective one-way phone acting I've seen on TV.

I realize Susan Harris was probably still in the shower trying to get her arms over her head to shampoo her hair, but how did she allow some of this Season 7 crap to get on the air. Some of the scripts needed her attention badly.

Speaking of Susan Harris, why did she not return to write the finale? It was her baby, after all.

*

Estelle Getty was nominated? Her idea of acting was to move herself into position for her line, hold real still, and shout in a monotone the words she had memorised.

Betty White was more an actor than all of them put together but she didn’t deserve to win anything for playing that cliche character. Just compare the writing of, and White’s portrayal of Susanne Nivens to the Blanche role.

Even in her 80s she could turn something otherwise unwatchable into something mildly entertaining.

Susan Harris oldest son is a hot daddy.

Harris was probably long checked out by Season 7.

If you took all the George Aliceson Tipton musical interludes and establishing shots out of the show, you’d have a ten-minute episode. Same goes for all the Harris created/inspired shows: “Soap,” “Benson,” “I’m A Big Girl Now,””Empty Nest”…

I agree with the poster above that Dorothy’s angry monologue to Stan in the second episode was well-written and delivered. You pretty much never needed to see Stan again after that as it just tied everything up between the two, even that early on in the series. Would that we could have had more of that.

R104 I'm the op of that post and I'm glad we got more of Stan. I liked the character and his existence helped us shed light on Dorothy and her past and present. I just think they took it too far in ridiculizing him by the end.

I wonder how the show would have been had Harris stuck it out and write more than three-four episodes.

I think the best TV episodes she ever wrote was the controversial two-parter on “Maude” when Maude gets pregnant and ponders having it or not and at the end of the story, decides to go through with an abortion. (She technically was not TVs first legal abortion as she only makes the decision and that’s it. No going off to the hospital scene.)

I may be in the minority but I wished the show had kept going in the direction it went in season five. Seasons two to four were such a brilliant concoction of slapstick and seriousness that you really didn't need to do any more. Season five was less laughs but more character development and backstory with some issue episodes. You can see the Susan Harris influence (as well as the popularity of a show like Designing Women) on it that year, but to me, it works. The girls (except Estelle) were great actresses, not just comediennes.

The problem with the last two years in addition to the mean-spirited obvious jokes are the somewhat wretched storylines. With the Miles in the witness protection program only to go back using his fake name and career being the absolute bottom of the barrel. It's like they didn't even try sometimes.

Dorothy and the fake Beatle story was the bottom of the barrel

The worse was Rose discovering her long lost father was a monk played by Don Ameche and then never seeing him again. At least if you were going to write something nonsensical out of left field then milk it dramatically for everything you could. Instead it just seemed like a quicky solution to "what the hell are we doing for THIS episode"

I do on’t remember the season, but Rose and the priest as her maybe dad was dumb

And the HIV scare was heavy handed 80s topicalism. “I could have AIDS!!!”

R199, you’re right. He was a monk. That was still dumb.

R110 that was season 6.

Sophia becoming a nun. Granted, the show wasn’t reality but everything about that was dumb. The Rorshach test. The full habits. Letting an 80 year old into holy orders. It takes more than a week to become a nun.

R110 I didnt mind the AIDS thing because that happened more frequently than we think with the transfusions and such and it was a plea for tolerance for those that suffered from that awful disease. Kind of hamfisted, but well intentioned.

Why did Bea hate Betty?

Betty hit her in the head with a fondue pot, r115.

[quote]Why did Bea hate Betty?

She hated the hostess pants Betty bought her for her birthday.

[quote]What's really strange is that Lucy was on earlier in the evening presenting an honorary award to Red Skeleton.

Oh, DEAR.

r99 When did Martha Raye become one of the Golden Girls?

Well, he *was* on the thin side, r118.

120 replies and NO ONE has mentioned that the song they were singing is from the notorious Sondheim flop "Merrily We Roll Along," now a HUGE hit and likely Tony winner on Broadway with Jonathan Groff and Daniel Radcliffe?

Audrey and Jayne were not twins.

The only way to rationalize the horrible “Golden Girls” writing is to treat it like a multiverse. Every season is it’s own “Golden Girls” earth.

On one earth, Rose is her high school valedictorian. On another, she never graduated high school because she got sick and missed graduation (why she wouldn’t have just been given her diploma can’t be rationalized).

On one earth, Dorothy got knocked up in high school and was married to Stan for 38 years. On another, her kids are only in their 20s.

On one earth, the girls throw Blanche a birthday party. On another, they have to go to get Blanche’s birth certificate from the state of Florida - even though she was born in Georgia - to find out her birth date.

When the Crisis hits the “Golden Girls” multiverse, Earths 5, 6 and 7 are the first to be annihilated. Then Earth 4.

Only Earths 1, 2 and 3 remain.

And all is right with the universe.

I always thought it would've been a better idea to have Bill Macy play 'Stan'. Those two had great chemistry together on 'Maude'.

R115, one of the reasons relates to how she publicly addressed Estelle Getty's memory.

[quote]former casting agent Joel Thurm, 80, reveals it was because Arthur and Rue “Blanche Devereaux” McClanahan thought White’s behavior was “very unkind” to Estelle Getty, who played Sophia on the show.

[quote]“When Estelle would forget her lines, Betty would go out of character and keep the audience laughing by making a gesture with her thumb to her mouth and point to Estelle as if she had been drinking,” Thurm writes.

[quote]The gesture seemed particularly cruel as Getty was beginning to show signs of dementia and struggling to remember her lines, which forced her to rely on cue cards.

[…]

[quote]He also doesn’t believes that White “was intentionally making fun of Estelle but rather trying to keep the audience laughing between takes.”

Reporting on the same book/author from the Daily Mail:

[quote]A month after Betty White's death at 99, Golden Girls casting director Joel Thurm has revealed that her main co-stars Bea Arthur and Rue McClanahan did not like her and called her profane names.

[quote]Thurm appeared on The Originals podcast…

[…]

[quote]he recalled how fellow main castmate Estelle Getty began having issues memorizing her lines.

[quote]Thurm explained: 'And she [Getty] would write the lines on her hand, and … Betty White would make fun of her in front of the live audience.

[quote]Thurm also said 'Yeah, she called her the C-word. I mean, I heard that with my own ears. And by the way, so did Rue McClanahan. Rue McClanahan said it to me in Joe Allen's [restaurant]; Bea Arthur [when she was] on the set of Beggars And Choosers'

[quote]'That may seem like a minor transgression, but it really does get to you … I have no idea how Estelle Getty felt, but I know the other two did not like [White] at all.'

[quote]Back in 2011, White actually addressed the on-set issues with Arthur in an interview with The Village Voice as she said: 'Bea had a reserve. She was not that fond of me. She found me a pain in the neck sometimes.

[quote]'It was my positive attitude — and that made Bea mad sometimes. Sometimes if I was happy, she’d be furious!'

[quote]Writing several scripts for the show’s premiere season, Zimmerman questioned the way White treated co-star Estelle Getty.

[quote]During those early days, Getty was having trouble remembering her lines.

[…]

[quote]“That’s why sometimes [in] scenes, you’ll see Sophia eating raisins. She actually has the lines on her hands,” Zimmerman explained of Getty’s character. “So, when we would break because of a mistake from Estelle, Betty would go walk over to the bleachers and start making jokes. And, at the time, because I was close with Estelle, I felt, ‘Why is she making fun of Estelle?’ I was very protective,” he said.

[quote]Zimmerman and Getty had cultivated a close friendship while he was writing for the show, and he initially thought White was taking an opportunity to go “off making jokes at the expense of Estelle.”

[quote]Reflecting on the situation decades later, Zimmerman believes White was purposely deflecting away from Getty’s struggles.

[quote]“I think Betty was steering the attention away from Estelle, going up to the audience so that people would be looking at her over there and let Estelle have the moment to collect herself, look at the script.”

[quote]Zimmerman says White “knew Estelle had panic attacks every time we went to go film. You have to understand, Estelle Getty came from the theater, where you rehearse the same script over and over and over and over. In television, you’re always changing lines, sometimes in between takes.”

[quote]“Imagine you’re having these feelings. You’re used to being in a career of theater where you’ve memorized lots of lines, and then you’re in front of a huge studio, cameras […] And she started talking about how, you know, she had to go to therapy to help her work through her fear of those tape nights.”

[quote]Zimmerman also touched on rumors White and Arthur didn’t get along.

[quote]“During our time on set, I never felt tension between the two,” he wrote in the book. “I only heard stories and [bold]recently learned, from producer Marsha Posner Williams on a podcast, that Bea thought Betty was two-faced. Bea liked real people. I had the sense that Betty was more like Sue Ann Nivens, the character she played on ‘The Mary Tyler Moore Show,’ than she was like Rose. More conniving than the innocent airhead from St. Olaf.”[/bold]

Herb Edelman was great as Stan and had plenty of chemistry with Stan. His casting was not the problem.

Betty sounds like a stealthy, manipulative bitch.

Cluster B White?

Maybe.

I thought Rue and Betty were very close friends off set.

Bea costarred with Rue on "Maude," and Betty costarred with her on "Mama's Family." So she had history with both of them (but not with Estelle.)

I constantly hear about Estelle's problems with memory and dementia, yet she went on playing Sophia for several years after the show ended -- both on "Golden Palace" and then on "Empty Nest." If she had so many problem with lines, why did they keep asking her back?

[quote] If she had so many problem with lines, why did they keep asking her back?

Because the character was - and is - a pop culture sensation and they were going to milk it, dementia be damned.

I don't think many of you understand the concept of sitcoms (situational comedies).

Seasons 6 and 7 were perfect examples of it and thus hilarious.

You people are like the film critics who judge every movie, including comedies, as if they were Oscar-bait (i.e. serious and melodramatic).

[quote] I don't think many of you understand the concept of sitcoms (situational comedies).

And you have no taste. That I understand.

[quote]Reflecting on the situation decades later, Zimmerman believes White was purposely deflecting away from Getty’s struggles. “I think Betty was steering the attention away from Estelle, going up to the audience so that people would be looking at her over there and let Estelle have the moment to collect herself, look at the script.” Zimmerman says White “knew Estelle had panic attacks every time we went to go film. You have to understand, Estelle Getty came from the theater, where you rehearse the same script over and over and over and over. In television, you’re always changing lines, sometimes in between takes.”

I haven't watched this show (yet) but enjoy reading comments about it, and I don't know anything about the actresses' offstage lives, but this makes sense to me and I'm surprised it was only in retrospect that someone in production realized why Betty White was engaging the audience after Estelle struggled with a line. It's hard to imagine Betty would walk toward the audience after a cut and blatantly mock a fellow actress, let alone insinuate she had a drinking problem. It sounds highly improbable.

Rue and Betty were besties behind the scenes. I don't believe for a second that there was any tension between those two.

Raymond Burr should have asked Ralph Edwards how he got so skinny.

I call BS on the Stan Zimmerman story above. He was only there for the show's first season. Estelle didn't start having memory problems until later in the show's run.

[quote] Does Susan Harris has one last hit TV show left in her?

Can she concoct another fake disease to exploit?

If so, maybe.

I am, apparently, a great outlier in this thread.

I find seasons 5, 6, and 7 to be the funniest of the series.

I think the show was still funny and entertaining in the last seasons but I do think it lost some of it's heart then and some of the plot points like the ones mentioned were dumb.

Bea had a reserve

Seasons 1 through 4 are great. Season 5 was good. Season 6 was okay. But Season 7 was unwatchable

I wish Barbara Thorndyke had moved in with them.

I was at a taping of a "GG" episode ("The Mangiacavallo Curse") and I can attest to the fact that Betty was the only one of the four who interacted regularly with the audience. Bea was very aloof and ignored the audience completely.

I'm with you R140. Seasons 6 and 7 were my favorites. I also think Bea looked her best in those seasons. The very short butch hair in the first seasons didn't work for her and made her look manly because of her strong facial features. She looked like a beautiful, statuesque ancient Greek goddess in season 7.

[quote]I was at a taping of a "GG" episode

You've immediately been elevated to DL royalty r145

R131, Rue said in some interviews that Estelle didn't have any problems remembering her lines on The Golden Palace and she thought it was because Estelle was intimidated by Bea. Even though Bea and Estelle were great friends, Estelle probably wanted to impress Bea and that made her extremely nervous. I think her memory problems on GG were a combination of panic and dementia but on The Golden Palace, Bea wasn't there so she was calmer and it helped her tremendously. Rue also said that Estelle was at her happiest on The Golden Palace. Dinah Manoff from Empty nest said that Bea was a formidable woman and could be very intimidating so I guess little 4'10 Estelle was very nervous around Bea.

Pfffft r148

That's Pffffthawkins to you, r149

[quote] I don't think many of you understand the concept of sitcoms (situational comedies).

[quote] Seasons 6 and 7 were perfect examples of it and thus hilarious.

[quote] You people are like the film critics who judge every movie, including comedies, as if they were Oscar-bait (i.e. serious and melodramatic).

No dum dum. We’re judging it against its previous and superior seasons.

What the fuck are you talking about Oscar bait? It was an Emmy winning show during its first few years so it should be judged based on its prior quality. The awards dried up when the writing went to shit in the final seasons.

Your condescension is a fucking joke because your brain is barren.

From a 2007 interview Rue gave to Entertainment Weekly:

"Since we’re talking about writing, did you ever have input on the writing or scripts of The Golden Girls?

Actually, it’s funny, the actors didn’t get to help writers. They were strict about keeping us in separate camps. And the way it worked was, I would say — being a writer myself — ‘This line really doesn’t feel right coming from Blanche. I really think Sophia should say this.’ Betty [White] would do pretty much the same thing. And Bea [Arthur] would say things like, ‘There’s just something, I don’t know, but it’s just not right.’ However, Estelle [Getty], the dear, didn’t contribute in that way because she was so out-of-her-level, above her head. You know, she’d never done anything this high-powered in television.

Well, from what I’ve read, she even had a hard time knowing the lines that she needed to know for the show.

Oh yeah, she was very, very uncomfortable.

But it doesn’t come off in the show at all. How was a huge secret like that masked?

We stayed after the audience left and reshot all of her scenes. It was grinding. It was hard. Poor little thing — Estelle was so humiliated and embarrassed. And then when we went on to do Golden Palace, she didn’t have that problem anymore. And I began to think perhaps it was Bea Arthur’s influence because she wasn’t on Golden Palace. I think she was somehow unconsciously intimidated by Bea.

How interesting. Bea is an intimidating person, but to make Estelle forget her lines?

You might also remember Estelle did Empty Nest for a couple of years after that. She was a regular, and she didn’t have any problem. Maybe it wasn’t Bea, maybe it was just a coincidence that once Bea was out of the picture, Estelle wasn’t scared anymore."

Bea always came off a bitch on tv and in real life. She was always complaining in interviews about everything. Betty and Rue always seemed like they could be very approachable in real life.

And Tallulah Bankhead was completely right to give Bea a dose of reality in regard to her looks.

R152, that confirms my suspiscion as to why Sophia became so incredibly cruel to Dorothy in the last couple of seasons. The other women were comfortable "fighting" for the integrity of their characters, but Estelle was not. As such, she wound up saying a lot of things that were out of character for Sophia's established relationship with Dorothy. I love Dorothy and Sophia's relationship and find it an incredibly authentic mother/daughter relationship, which is why the horrible things Sophia says to Dorothy in later seasons are just jarring.

[quote]I love Dorothy and Sophia's relationship and find it an incredibly authentic mother/daughter relationship, which is why the horrible things Sophia says to Dorothy in later seasons are just jarring.

MARY!!!

Idk why Bea was considered uggly at all but looking at the Maude episodes and she was infinitely more attractive (and almost younger in a way) in the GG than in Maude. Age actually favored her imo

White and MacLanahan were the only two who could act. Arthur was okay if she was playing a version of herself. Getty was just hopeless.

[Quote] Tallulah Bankhead was completely right to give Bea a dose of reality in regard to her looks.

Did you witness this exchange back in the 1950s?

Betty's a cunt

Bea and Betty dabbled in the homosex

Dennis Weaver and Robert Stack are about to fly right outta there.

Bea and Betty were so close during the first few seasons, but something happened around the time of season 4 that severed their relationship irreparably. Betty winning the Emmy first was just the opening salvo.

R162 hears voices

R163 yes, and it's Bea Arthur's voice

Eve Arden looks confused

Get psychiatric help

R165 - she can't see through those glasses.

It would have been funny if Betty would have walked out with her Emmy and a devilish grin and poked Bea with one of its wings.

The rundown of who liked whom on GG:

Everyone loved Estelle.

Everyone loved Rue.

Everyone loved Bea.

Everyone except Bea loved Betty.

Who cares. Whats great about all of them is that they were professionals and never let whatever bts issues eclipse the show.

R146 . Wow, I can’t believe that I read…Bea looked like a beautiful, statuesque ancient Greek goddess in season 7.

That hair, the clothes, the jewellery, her feet, Bea looked like a butch drag queen by season 7. I thought the best she looked was season 4. I’m not sure what happened after that, but in season 5 she looked shattered, and her acting became lazy. Also for season 5 Bea had new teefs to replace the original manky grey stumps. This was when I noticed that her voice had changed, maybe it was the new teefs?

It looks like Eve Arden was supposed to have one of the Damn Fews. But they didn't have her mic turned on. You can see her mouthing the words though.

R5 saw it first.

I agree with you R162. There are pictures of Bea and Betty sitting at the same table with Jean Stapleton back in the 70s when Bea was on Maude and Betty was on Mary Tyler Moore. They look like they're having fun. Bea would have never accepted her role on GG if she had hated Betty from the start. Why would you want to work for years on a sitcom with someone you can't stand? Rue admitted in her book and others have said this too, that Bea would take Betty's hand and go to lunch with her every day. In fact, according to Rue, Bea didn't want to go to lunch in Betty wasn't there. During interviews for the first 3 seasons, Bea and Betty are always sitting next to each other and they always find a way of touching each other's hands or hair. Starting in season 4, during interviews, Rue is sitting between Bea and Betty. So something happened around 1988 that destroyed their relationship. Bea was asked about Betty in a 1998 interview with Dann Dulin and Bea got emotional and didn't want to talk about it so you can see that she seemed sad about something that happened to their friendship. You don't get all misty over someone you can't stand and never cared about. I also don't believe she was jealous of Betty. Bea loved women who were very successful and brilliant at what they did like Angela Lansbury. She even loved and worshipped Tallulah Bankhead who insulted her the first time they met.

R174 I think it boiled down to personal jealousy. Rue wrote that Betty flirted with the audience inbetween setups and was the audience favorite. Bea believed in the 4th wall and acted like the audience wasn’t there. Even though it was her decision to do that…it still probably hurt her to think the audience preferred Betty to her.

Everyone wants to be loved.

Then Bea stopped getting nominated for an Emmy and Betty continued to get nominated. A nomination comes from your peers. That probably hurt Bea that her peers preferred Betty to her in nominations as well.

I think that whole Bea would insist on Betty being present at lunch was maybe a case of keeping your enemies close.

If Betty had any decency she would have refused her later nominations out of solidarity with her peers.

r177 = the ghost of Bea Arthur

R175, I still don't think those were the true reasons for the break in their friendship. Why wasn't Bea jealous of Angela Lansbury? Angela was more successful in movies than Bea, more successful in theatre, winning 5 Tony Awards and she was equally successful on TV with Murder She Wrote which ran for 12 years. But they were best friends. And Bea knew about Betty's personality before GG. They were friends in the 70s. I just think something very specific happened around 1988 that Bea never forgave.

Betty's nominations for s5-7 when Rue & Bea were locked out were for:

Rose fights back: she loses Charlie's pension and has to get a job with Enrique Mas

Once In St Olaf: Don Ameche is her real dad

Dateline Miami: clipshow

R176 I once read in the magazine Closer that they started this sweet hand holding after their mothers died almost at the same time. That's when Bea started holding Betty's hand and taking her to lunch. She also holds her hand on the Merv Griffin Show in 1985. Bea and Betty also lived in the same neighborhood and would carpool to work. Bea seemed closer to Betty at the start of GG than anyone else.

[quote]I once read in the magazine Closer

Tell me you were born before 1935 without telling me you were born before 1935.

Were Mort Nathan and Barry Fanaro the writers obsessed with ebbing and flowing?

You're waaay off R182. I was born on a beautiful summer day in 1816.

Bea overheard Betty telling Rue that Bea's twat stank.

R179 1988 was also the year they went to England to perform. Could there have been a big fight in England?

I heard Bea and Betty shared a hotel room. Bea wanted to get hot and heavy, but Betty wouldn't put out. They would never speak again.

Bea overheard Betty telling Estelle that Allen Ludden had a bigger dick than Bea. Bea and Betty would never speak again.

I don’t think the feud magically started in 1987/1988.

I do think that you can be cordial with someone that you barely know and then a bitter feud can destroy it all.

Who is that on Eve Arden's left? Jackie Cooper really didn't like him trying to hold his hand.

It was after Betty received an Emmy nomination for S5 and Bea was shut out for what she believed to be Oscar-calibre work in her Chronic Fatigue episodes. She thought Betty was smirking at her and considering herself and Estelle the stars of the show!

Betty probably made a wise-ass remark and Bea took offense. It was probably something stupid and Bea held a grudge.

Betty came to work one day CHEWING GUM!!!!

I never forgave her.

R193 Smacking my gum and wearing a backwards baseball cap.

See ya' round!

R193 Bea, if you're floating around naked, I think we'd all be glad if you stayed away.

R193 "In our father's kingdom, we are all handsome." - Oda Mae Brown

^^For R195, not R193^^

R196 Ouch! One of those saggy tits slapped me in the face

Tittays in tha win' !

[quote] Rose fights back: she loses Charlie's pension and has to get a job with Enrique Mas

Good grief, how many times did Rose lose Charlie’s pension? Or went broke? Or got sick? Or addicted to drugs? Or almost had AIDS?

It was like “The Perils of Pauline.”

[quote]Who is that on Eve Arden's left? Jackie Cooper really didn't like him trying to hold his hand.

Looks like Bob Cummings.

R198 Bea had nice tits on Maude before she had them chopped off and sold to Whiskas cat food.

Bea had a nice dick

If you watch early interviews from the show and bloopers, Betty has a way of ribbing people that can be good natured, but if you’ve spent all day taping and just want to get home, I imagine can get tiresome real fast. Especially as they went on and started dealing with Estelle’s issues.

I get Betty wanted to liven things up but I can imagine Bea getting annoyed if you’re making a big deal out of every error.

I think Betty's relentless cheeriness and always being "on" annoyed Bea to a great degree. Maybe it was tolerable for a few years but by season 3 perhaps it was no longer.

This is embarrassing ... Mary! ... but i have watched all their Emmys oral history interviews. Betty is very positive about just about everything she ever did and everyone she ever worked with. Rue was very surly in her interview and had nothing to say for about 75% of what the interviewer tried to get her to discuss. Bea, interestingly, greatly favored Maude to The Golden Girls. Maude, for her, was a landmark show while Golden Girls was much more trivial in retrospect.

Betty reminds me of someone who knows they're irritating someone but feigns innocence over it. Could be wrong..

R198 Betty, you were almost 100 when you died!! Your tits were down to your ankles while mine were only down to my knees when I died so shut up CUNT!!!

r207 Bosom Buddies!

My cupcakes were moist and delicious. Men loved my cupcakes. Bea's cupcakes were dry and tasteless.

Yeah, I always got the impression that Betty could be incredibly passive-aggressive and that would really great after any great length of time together. She said herself that she was very competetive and I can imagine she probably made subtle digs all the time about winning her Emmy first, especially since Bea had been the star of her own hit show before this with Emmy's to her name while up to this point Betty had been a supporting player.

Ugh that should be grate not great...

I somehow doubt Betty made many digs about winning the Emmy especially since she writes in her book about how winning was not to be spoken of on set that year since there were so many hurt feelings.

Betty was always a long time Emmy favorite before 1986, so I’m really not surprised she was the first one of the cast to win. Bea had already won an Emmy for Maude and a Tony, so her acting this way seems petty and ridiculous. It’s not like Bea hadn’t won anything before. Rue had zero awards, and seemed to take everything in stride. She probably considered her win the next year icing on the cake, which is the way any award should be perceived. Your making a ton of money on a hit show is the biggest thing.

According to Rue's book, Bea was none too pleased the next year either when Rue won

During the musical finale at the 1987 Emmys, I think the producers went too far by having Bea standing between Betty and Rue who were both smiling from ear to ear with their Emmys in hand.

We've all been in situations where somebody obtained something you want. Sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet and congratulate the person even though it's the last thing in the world you want to do. It's called being an adult.

Maybe Bea did congratulate them both once and then wanted to move on.

Bea asked Betty to lunch one time and Betty dismissed her.

Tony Thomas is one hot daddy

Tony has BDF

Why were they so thirsty for Emmys?

Just thinking that the Emmys are kind of strange for an actor compared to the Oscars because awards are given while shows are still in production. If two actors are nominated from the same film, everything wrapped months earlier and everyone has moved on by the time anyone wins. In television, an actor showing up on set the next day having won an Emmy while their co-star(s) didn't would be a bit uncomfortable, especially if the other nominees aren't gracious or don't have a sense of humor about it, and in an industry. (And even if they are or do, it would still feel awkward.)

It would be awkward to show up on set the next day after winning an Emmy if your co-stars were nominated too, especially if they're ungracious or don't have a sense of humor about it. If two actors from the same film are nominated for an Oscar, production wrapped months before the awards show and they're no longer working together. In television, the awards are presented during production season so cue the uncomfortable moments for some winners if other actors (or people in production) were nominated and lost.

"If they're ungracious or don't have a sense of humor about it." is a big part of it.

I just don't get the big deal about these awards in general. Most people act like they validate who you are and what you do, when they're no more than popularity contests.

[quote] Why were they so thirsty for Emmys?

Such pettiness.

I suppose one could say Bea's Emmy nominations went through a brief period of ebbing and flowing?

R223, you have to be incredibly competetive and incredibly insecure to make it in show business...

Well I've just had a look at their Golden Globes record and it's a DISGRACE! Beaten twice by Cybil Shepard for sucking cock on the Moonlighting set?

The only one with a globe is Estelle for season 1 no less when she was at her worst! I wish I hadn't looked now, I need a cold compress

Yikes, that should be competitive...

Bea Arthur is one of the Golden Globes biggest losers of all time, with 9 humiliating losses.

Shut up you cunt!

Fuck off you gargoyle

The Out of the Lanai Golden Girls Podcast has a number of interviews with people who were involved with the show and the Bea/Betty "feud" is discussed numerous times. More or less it comes down to a personality clash, but never interfered with their work. Low-energy, introverted Bea found workaholic, "always on" Betty to be annoying. Christopher Lloyd (the writer not the actor) and Winifred Hervey have also suggested Bea might've been slightly jealous of Betty's status as an "American Sweetheart" type. Also, it's no secret that Bea was never really happy on the Golden Girls. She was there mostly for the pay check. Rue talks about it in her book saying Bea was never happy on the show and as such Bea was distant from everyone-the warmth of Rue/Bea's friendship on Maude was not repeated on GGs.

R232 I'm sure she wasn't happy because her husband left her for a younger woman and her mother committed suicide when GG started. Bea mentioned in an interview that when her mother died she started drinking a lot. So lots of hangovers and Betty singing first thing in the morning CLANG CLANG CLANG WENT THE TROLLEY, DING DING DING WENT THE BELL!!

[quote]Cybil Shepard

Two words, and you got them both wrong. Brava!

I honestly dont get why people care that much about "the feud". It was a personality clash but they always kept it professional and classy. If they had been shading each other non stop then I could get the interest but they never did, to theirccredit. So why dwell on it? The show is what matters.

[quote] The only one with a globe is Estelle for season 1 no less when she was at her worst!

Someone hasn’t seen Season 7.

R232, that's what they keep saying but Bea knew about Betty's personality before GG. They were friends in the 70s. Here's what probably happened: They went to the UK in 1988 to give a performance for the Queen. Bea and Betty shared a hotel room. One night, they had too much whiskey and Yorkshire pudding, emotions were running high, canes flew, one thing lead to another and Betty woke up naked on top of Bea. Neither could remember what they had done the night before, Bea accused Betty of molesting her and their friendship ended because of this. The simpletons of the world would never understand or accept that this is what really happened so they keep telling the same story of Bea was an introvert and Betty was an extrovert and blablabla. Bull.

R237 so much effort for so little payoff.

R234 who cares, she stole Rue & Bea's golden globes!

Not quite R239

The faux Bea/Betty fighting on DL gives me immense pleasure

Betty invited uncle Milton for a reason

Please! My dick is way bigger than Milton's.

In your dreams, Bea

R234. Neither is a word. Both are names.

(Oh dear...I didn't realize that I kind of double-posted. I thought the words I first typed had somehow disappeared so I wrote it out again in (what became) the second paragraph. Sorry for the redundancy and confusion!)

Make that: signed R222

The Bea & Betty thing has just taken on a life of its own. Will people still be talking about it years from now?

Bea started it

What does Bea say to Betty at 1:43 before grabbing her hand?

Bea was upset because Betty had a full bosom

R251 Bea had a full bosom but gave it away. Her loss.

[quote][R234]. Neither is a word. Both are names.

That's an interesting concept. Names are not words?

One of the best versions of the GG theme song I've ever heard

Thats a lovely version, r254

Bea was a lesbian

Betty liked the dick and pussy

R256 How do you know that for sure?

R257 Same question: How do you know that for sure?

How do you know the sky is blue for sure?

Silly R260. I mean did Bea tell you she's a lesbian? Do you know someone who knew her and told you this?

For Betty, I know she was on a list of old Hollywood bisexual stars compiled by an insider but again, no solid evidence.

R261 Rue said she walked in on Bea eating Estelle's snatch

After listening to some Marsha Posner Williams interviews on YouTube, I think it's pretty clear Bea couldn't stand Betty, even in the early seasons. When "This is Your Life" was going to feature Betty White and they needed the other three cast members' participation, Bea's first response was, "No fucking way!". Marsha's husband had to twist her arm to do it.

It's not just "different work styles." Bea really did have a strong dislike for Betty.

R262 I think it was the opposite. Estelle could suck dick and eat snatch standing up.

R263 She hated her so much she accepted to play Dorothy on GG with Betty at her side. Hmmm....

And I'm not surprised she didn't want to be part of This Is Your Life. Bea didn't like that kind of attention. She was still friends with Betty in 1987.

But in 1988, that "thing" happened.

I wonder why Bea was such a cunt on Golden Girls?

She had been very successful in Maude, but that was years before, and her next show was a flop. She was nearing her mid 60’s when the Golden Girls started, so to suddenly land a show that was such a huge hit should have been seen as a late in life gift.

She was billed as the star of the show, she got tons more money per episode than the other actresses, she didn’t have the responsibility or workload of carrying the whole show herself, and yet she was a complete fucking nightmare to work with throughout the entire run of 7 seasons.

I think she was pissed partially at GG's success. Angry people can get crazy like that.

Bea was one of those bitter old hags who could never accept that her husband left her for another woman. Never mind how miserable and frigid Bea was when they were together.

[quote] She was billed as the star of the show, she got tons more money per episode than the other actresses, she didn’t have the responsibility or workload of carrying the whole show herself, and yet she was a complete fucking nightmare to work with throughout the entire run of 7 seasons.

This could be her LinkedIn opening statement.

Bea also seemed to be someone who lied a lot and was never honest about anything. For example, she denied being in the Marines when we have proof she was. She said Maude ended after 6 seasons because she thought 6 was enough and there was no reason to continue but according to Bill Macy, the show ended because Bea's husband left her for a younger woman and Bea was crushed and couldn't go on. She was never honest about her relationship with Betty. Ed Asner admitted that he didn't get along with Ted Knight on MTM. Jimmy Walker admitted that he didn't get along with most of the cast on Good Times. Janet Hubert admitted that she didn't get along with Will Smith on The Fresh Prince. Bea was never honest when asked about Betty. Just tell the damn truth already! In 2009 when she was given an award by Angela Lansbury, she was asked by a journalist how her health was and she said that she was healthy and would do another show if the right one came along... but she was dying from cancer. She could barely stand up. I don't know why she always felt the need to hide her true feelings. I know she was an introvert but she also seemed to be a pathological liar.

R250 Bea says Betty was the exception when the man is saying until now leading ladies weren't older women.

Bea’s mental issues turned her into a total ingrate.

She was in her mid-60s and was cast on one of the hottest shows on television. She won an Emmy and had one of the most envious jobs in show business. It’s nearly impossible for a performer of her age - not to mention a woman - to get a lead role in anything and they were nearly begging her to be a part of the show.

And what did she do? Bitch, bitch, bitch.

She was such an exposed nerve. So your husband dumped you. What a snowflake you are! As if that hasn’t happened to millions of people. You’re more successful and wealthy than he’ll ever be. But apparently that wasn’t enough.

She never embraced what made her unique and was so filled with self hatred.

As much as the gays love her, she’s a cautionary tale of how bitterness, paranoia and self hatred are more damaging long term than any perceived enemy.

In Rue's book, she says after a few years, she too began interacting with the audience with Betty. Why didn't she experience Bea's wrath?

R273, Because I liked Rue. She was nice and submissive to my greatness. She washed my feet. Betty thought she was my equal AHAHAHAHA! I was a theatre and sitcom GODDESS while she was on gameshows with her gay husband. CUNT!!

Bea, at least I could keep my husband from straying with bimbos

Were they all paid the same? I've never seen a discussion of their pay.

R276 Bea was paid the most followed by Betty. Rue and Estelle were paid significantly less, at least at the beginning of the series. When they did Golden Palace, Betty, Estelle, and Rue had a favored nations agreement, so they were all paid the same.

Reddit discussion.

It was definitely Betty and Bea’s show in the pilot.

I don’t think Betty won the first year because of some overwhelming popularity among voters. She simply chose her submission well. In a Bed of Roses was a great show with a good performance by Betty.

Bea probably would have won the first year had they submitted Guess Who’s Coming to the Wedding? It’s one of her strongest performances on the entire run.. She was good in The triangle but that’s more of an ensemble episode..

Likewise Rue should have gone with Blanche and the Younger Man instead of The Way we Met. That was just a bizarre choice.

I do think later in the run Betty got noms simply on name recognition. It’s baffling that she got a nomination for Dateline Miami over Rues work in Journey to the center of attention. Dateline Miami is one step above a clip show.

R280 I think Rue should have submitted "A Little Romance." I know it's technically a Rose episode, but Blanche is hilarious in that show.

What other ill-advised submissions did they have?

Does anyone know their salaries?

I am reading Stan Zimmerman's book. He was a writer the first year on the show, but wasn't asked back for season 2. It's an enjoyable read.

Has anyone read Adrienne Boobeau's book There Are Worse Things I Could Do?

She said in an interview that she wrote a lot about Bea and her experience on Maude in this book.

I'm sure it's all positive. Bea was a saint on Maude.

Bea wasn't a cunt until GG.

Bea sure was a miserable old poop

You miserable queens could have been stuck with Elaine Stritch as Dorothy. And either her or Betty would have wound up leaving after the first year.

Because you think Bea was a bitch?. Elaine would have left Betty’s blood all over those walls.

Hell, Bea was probably even pissed at audiences for preferring Golden Girls to Maude.

Girls! Girls! You're both bitches!

You know who might have made a good Dorothy replacement AND added a bit of diversity to the cast: Isabel Sanford

Isabel could do sarcasm and throw a side-eye pretty well

[quote] You know who might have made a good Dorothy replacement AND added a bit of diversity to the cast: Isabel Sanford

She was even less fuckable than Bea. If that’s possible.

If they had cast Isabel on Golden Girls, that would have meant that Isabel Sanford, Sherman Hemsley, and Marla Gibbs would have all appeared on NBC's Saturday night schedule in the 1980's.

I gay gasped when I saw Lambchop. I love Lamchop!

Boy is that some tired ass bad staging. And singing. And art direction. And costuming. And casting. She tired. Roll credits.

[quote]If they had cast Isabel on Golden Girls, that would have meant that Isabel Sanford, Sherman Hemsley, and Marla Gibbs would have all appeared on NBC's Saturday night schedule in the 1980's.

Yeah, but none of them have an OSCAR.

When did Betty take a dump in Bea's dressing room?

One of Bea’s issues is that she viewed others’ successes as her defeats.

She should have been thrilled when any of her costars won an Emmy as it elevated the show and its prestige. Not to mention just being happy for a colleague.

Such a mentally tortured woman. She had success that most could only dream of.

[quote]When did Betty take a dump in Bea's dressing room?

Daily, after her three-burrito lunch.

I heard Rue left a floater in Estelle's toilet

R291 There was no need for more diversity. Bea and Estelle were both Jewish women who played Italian-Americans. Betty played Rose from Minnesota of Scandinavian ancestry and Rue played Blanche, the Southern belle. They weren't all WASPs. And even if they had been, who cares? In the 80's people cared about the quality of a show, not how many brown, black and white faces were part of the cast.

R302 Whatever. Isabel was still funny as hell.

R303 And unlike Bea, Isabel would have been a delight to work with.

I was always a delight to work with, you cunt.

Angela Lansbury on The Rosie O'Donnell Show in 1999:

"We go to the movies together and you know, Bea, she's a very private person and we slip down to the little Santa Monica movie houses and we go see all the movies that you wouldn't want to be caught dead seeing you know, but we go with our dark glasses, these two old gals. Yeah, we watch everything."

I wonder if they went to porn theatres?

Do any of you remember seeing them together in Santa Monica?

I'm not sure I want to think about Bea Arthur and Angela Lansbury in a porn theater.

I'd rather think about them in a porn THEATER than in a porn MOVIE.

Touche r308. Touche

Wasn't there a post about some DLers who saw Bea and Angela completely drunk in a movie theatre in 1998? They were apparently laughing hysterically while watching the movie The Opposite Of Sex.

R310. Yes, that story is in Stan Zimmerman's book.

Stan Zimmerman is a cutie

This should lay to rest any rumors of Betty and Rue not getting along.

Susan Harris is just as bad as Bea regarding the Emmys. Susan lost to the writing team of Fanaro and Nathan that SHE hired because she didn't want the day-to-day responsibilities of running Golden Girls. You think she'd be happy that her show won and that they had hired some excellent writers on staff, allowing Susan to stay home and nurse her CFS.

We went to the Golden Girls pop-up restaurant last summer in Chicago. We had such a good time. It was just like seeing the actual show sets.

Nobody ever has a Bea Arthur story that doesn't involve her being sloppy drunk.

R316 Winifred Hervey liked Bea the most.

Dorothy was the best character on the show, but Bea was insufferable.

Bea was an old bitch

I am not interested in doing "Maude and Vivian Meet Sue Ann Nivens."

I heard the character of Blanche was described in the original pilot script as a "Bea Arthur type."

The character of Coco was originally described as an Esther Rolle type.

With next year being the 40th anniversary since GG premiered, I wonder if NBC will do anything special to commemorate the occasion. Might be kind of cool if they did something along the lines of Norman Lear's Live in Front of a Studio Audience.

Bea's experience in the Marines.

Bea denying joining the Marines. She was such an honest person.

Happy 102nd birthday to Bea.

That old bitch

During her interview with The Television Academy Foundation, she was asked if she had any brothers and sisters and she said that she had one sister named Kay who lived in Montreal. She never mentioned that she had two sisters. An older sister named Gertrude and a younger one named Marian Kay who did live and die in Montreal. Her sister Gertrude was born in 1915.

Mysterious Bea.

In the same interview, she calls Betty White "wonderful." No mention that she'd called to her a cunt to anyone who'd listen.

R329 Yeah, she didn't talk much about Betty in the interview though. You could tell it was making her uncomfortable. She went on and on about Rue and Estelle though.

Bea should have just been honest in that interview about Betty. "She's a cunt!"

I hate that lambchop bitch

I do wonder if something happened between them sexually and then Betty wanted to just be friends and Bea felt spurned. Betty did have some tig old bitties that people who are into that sort of thing might find irresistable. According to the actress that played Yvonne, Bea was def into the ladies, her in particular.

In Bea's mind, she was the only leading actress on Golden Girls. Everyone else was supporting.

No one has ever pinged louder for me than Betty White.

[quote] Might be kind of cool if they did something along the lines of Norman Lear's Live in Front of a Studio Audience.

R323 Lynnie Greene, the actress who played young Dorothy, is still alive and could now play mature Dorothy.

Betty's biddies were world class.

When I was a kid I always thought those flashback scenes were somehow clips from Maud where b and Estelle had just also happened to play a mother and daughter. This is only because I only knew that mod existed but it wasn't in reruns or syndication and or anything so I never actually saw it. And also as a pretty unperceptive kid as far as what people lookedlike I think so I don't know if it was necessarily that Lenny green resembles be as much as I thought she did or just that I was kind of a dumb kid in recognizing people.

It was like when I was in fourth grade and several months into the year my cousin and I happen to run into my teacher and after my cousin remarked about her being pregnant and I had had no idea that she was pregnant. It was the same case with my mom when she had my little sister and brother when I was five and seven I didn't really ever notice.

R335 Why do you think Betty pinged?

I wonder how much longer Golden Girls will still be shown? It still appears to be very popular, even with young people.

Maybe they will release a new box set with the original non edited episodes, and cleaned up and upscaled or whatever they do to them these days.

[quote] When I was a kid I always thought those flashback scenes were somehow clips from Maud where b and Estelle had just also happened to play a mother and daughter. This is only because I only knew that mod existed but it wasn't in reruns or syndication and or anything so I never actually saw it. And also as a pretty unperceptive kid as far as what people lookedlike I think so I don't know if it was necessarily that Lenny green resembles be as much as I thought she did or just that I was kind of a dumb kid in recognizing people.

It was like when I was in fourth grade and several months into the year my cousin and I happen to run into my teacher and after my cousin remarked about her being pregnant and I had had no idea that she was pregnant. It was the same case with my mom when she had my little sister and brother when I was five and seven I didn't really ever notice.

R338 = Rose, in full St. Olaf mode

R340 The Golden Girls deserves a fantastic box set. You can only buy the series as separate DVDs.

Give the fans a box set with backstage footage, unaired episodes and new bloopers!!

Susan Harris is going to be 84 later this year. She's older than Sophia.

I have the Sophia's purse box set. Includes a set of Golden Girls playing cards.

The box set should also include fresh interviews with the writers, Susan Harris, Tony Thomas, the guest stars who are still living. It can't be a half-assed effort.

Each box set should include a ticket for a free slice of cheesecake at Cheesecake Factory

Hell, they should get Cheesecake Factory to unveil a Bea Arthur-flavored cheesecake to mark the anniversary.

If they do a 40th anniversary special on TV, I hope they don't let that awful Marc Cherry produce it. Let Fanaro and Nathan handle it.

The box set should also include deep-dive hour long interviews with Deena Freeman, Hallie Todd, and the Jacoby brothers!

Also, a long interview with Matthew Saks on how Bea felt about Betty.

R349 They could also interview Yvonne!

Speaking of Matthew Saks, the could do an extra on the box set where they talk to the four stars' real-life kids about their memories of their moms working on the show. Matthew and Daniel Saks, Mark Bish, the Ludden stepchildren, and the Gettleman boys.

R351 "Bea stared at my boobs during the entire taping of the show. I was standing right here. She definately hit on me."

The tall one fondled me.

Bea was an older, predatory lesbian

R355, they all are!

[quote] Hell, they should get Cheesecake Factory to unveil a Bea Arthur-flavored cheesecake to mark the anniversary.

R347 I can see it now, “Bea Arthur Sour Grapes Cheesecake.”

Oops

It's funny how the order we all won our Emmys matches the likeability of the actresses.

1. Betty

2. Rue

3. Estelle

4. Bea

Would anybody like a slice of Betty's "I Won First" Celebratory Cheesecake? Bea?

I'd prefer one of Bea's "I never liked cheesecake" slices.

R359 Estelle had the highest likeability of any actress at the time.

I just finished watching Betty's 1997 interview to the Television Academy Foundation.

Part 5:

Interviewer: "Tell us about Rue McClanahan."

Betty: "Rue Rue Rue, she was awesome, bla bla bla, only good things to say about her and her character Blanche. Love Rue."

Interviewer: "How about Bea and Estelle?"

Betty: "Estelle is the one I've kept in touch with the most since the end of the series."

........................................................................... tumbleweeds.........................................................

Interviewer: Ok, and Susan Harris?

R362, I'm pretty sure R359 was being facetious.

R363 The Susan Harris Emmy story is crazy. "If I can't have an Emmy, I'm going to take my toy and go home!" Good grief. She and Bea are like two peas in a pod. These are grown ass women!

Susan Harris arguably only wrote two great episodes: Break-In and In A Bed Of Rose's.

Transplant and End Of The Curse are decent. Sick and Tired is memorable for Blanche's scenes.

Heart Attack is okay but too short on laughs and I doubt it's anyone's favourite.

The pilot is ok but the poor continuity and direction make it a chore. I agree with others who felt it should have been reshot when it was clear the show was a hit. Wouldn't have taken more than a couple of days.

The pilot was fine and did what it needed to. But nobody's going to choose it as the funniest episode. R366 Apparently, they did reshoot the pilot as much as they could to eliminate Coco. The problem was that in the first scene none of the characters except Coco was home for Dorothy to talk to. It would have required a major rewrite.

R366 I don't even like "Break In" all that much.

R367 not saying it wouldn't need a rewrite but Blanche could have been the one she comes home to as she didn't have that many scenes in the pilot and it could have established her vanity when she responds to Dorothy looking in the mirror and seeing an old woman.

I'm fascinated by the order the shot vs showed the first season episodes. Job Hunting was the second filmed but almost last aired that year.

"Job Hunting" was apparently a very troubled script that needed a lot of work before it was ready for air.

R370 I thought it was finished second after the pilot but held back? Do you mean it had some parts re-shot?

I'm fascinated by details such as major edits, troubled episodes, scrabbled ideas etc

I'm not sure if they reshot anything. Paul Bogart and Betty clashed on this episode. I think I read that nobody thought it was a good episode, not very funny, etc. and pushed it to the end of the season so it wouldn't blunt the show's momentum.

Here's a blurb from Golden Girls Forever.

“Bea was very happy with Paul Bogart. And he was probably great for other things, but not for Rose,” Betty explains. Two weeks before this episode’s taping, during production of “Job Hunting” (a troubled episode that, although shot as the series’ second installment, was ultimately delayed for airing until the following March) Bogart had urged Betty “to get really mad, and yell and scream,” Betty remembers. But “Jay Sandrich had set such a wonderful course for the character of Rose for me in the pilot, and to me, screaming was more Paul Bogart than it was Rose Nylund. I was very uncomfortable with it.”

Still, a trouper who always tries not to argue with her director—“I figure a director has a more objective view and may know more than I do,” Betty explains—she tried it Bogart’s way. “But it was just so un-Rose. She was scared, but she wouldn’t suddenly turn into a strong New York woman and scream. I just couldn’t find an excuse for it, and I felt like I’d lost the character.” Then, during a run-through of “Transplant” for the writers late in that week, Jay came back to observe the proceedings on the show he had helped launch—and noticed right away that something was amiss. Jay urged Betty to speak her concerns to Paul Witt and Tony Thomas, and when she was reluctant, he apparently did so on her behalf. Soon, Tony walked on to the set. “He told me: ‘Do it the way you think you should,’” Betty remembers. “And the next week, Paul Bogart wasn’t there.”

Thanks for posting R373! Maybe Bea was annoyed about losing Paul?

Maybe briefly, R374. But shortly after Bogart was canned, they got Terry Hughes to direct who they all adored.

More from Golden Girls Forever:

Terry Grossman: Rue adored Paul Bogart, because he was a real actor’s director. But from the writers’ perspective, he was all about the “moments,” and not the jokes. The comedy was suffering.

Just as the show’s first season was starting, Susan Harris had been feeling sick, and so the production order of some scripts was changed. Kathy and I ended up being the guinea pigs, with our episode “Job Hunting” being the first to be shot after the pilot. We found Paul’s working style to be territorial, gathering the cast around him and excluding the writers. That wasn’t how we were used to working on Benson, and we complained to Paul Witt and Tony Thomas. When we shot “Transplant,” written by Susan, Paul [Bogart] did the same thing again—and that was it. He was gone.

So Paul Bogart directed Rue's legendary flounce down the hall?