Are you jealous of rich people?

There are greedy vacuous, not happy at their core. Really.

Who isn't?

What really burns for me though - is encountering dumb people with money. Particularly on reality shows. It's like they've cheated the system somehow and it burns - deeply.

I'm also over trust fund kids. I really understand why they had huge inheritance taxes years ago - but Republicans have gotten rid of most of those.

We're veering quickly to an oligarchy - and those societies are really hard to disassemble.

There are over 140,000 Americans worth more than $50 million. That's a fucking LOT. $50 million is a huge amount of money - let alone the ones who have 20x or 200x that amount.

You know what I always say: Anybody can make money -- it just depends on how low you're willing to stoop.

The short answer is no.

I'd like to live in a mansion but other than that, no.

No not at all. Money is good up to a certain point but after that it doesnt bring extra happiness. I would argue it is the opposite, I know a few miserable rich people. Nothing is as priceless as good health, the good health of your family.

I guess I imagine it like this: Buy whatever you want without a second thought, travel whenever and wherever, have plenty to donate to your pet charities, live in a gorgeous house. Yes, I know rich people have their share of problems, but this all sounds pretty great, no? What am I missing?

I'm not jealous of rich people. I just wish I could make enough to live without needing credit to buy things that i don't want to pay on over time. I'm 55 and single, make $63k a year, have no credit card debt, no car payment and i pay for my rent, phone, gas for car, food. Nothing over the top.

And it's not enough. I need a new car because the hybrid battery on this one has failed and i can't afford to have it replaced. it would be nice to be able to buy a used vehicle with some modern conveniences (rear-view camera, etc) without having to finance it (and i really can't, I have a low credit score because i don't want to use credit and over-extend myself/pay outrageous interest rates). Or to afford more than a studio - maybe a 1 bdrm house with an actual tub instead of a stand-up shower. More windows besides one.

My monthly expenses are not exorbitant. But I'm unable to save enough to afford a new car, even though my rent is 1/3 of my income.

Any time i've played the lottery (and it's probably been at least 5 years), i've sent a prayer to say that if i won something bigger than i needed, i'd donate it or start a non-profit, etc. If i had another 15k per year, i'd probably be very satisfied, to be honest.

It is shallow and ultimately meaningless, a lot of the stuff you list^ It stops being exciting and becomes status quo, even boring. I remember relating to a quote, something Kirt Cobain said, about how finding some little treasure at a thrift store when he was broke meant so much more than having lots of money and being able to buy out a whole store. Traveling and staying at fancy hotels is nice but it gets old too. A big beautiful house; so what? It is just more space.

Sorry, my reply at R8 was meant for R6.

Thanks for that clarification, r9. I was about to retort that all i wanted was a cottage in the country with a lot of sunlight for gardening and trees around me, room to roam and a few animals. And to be able to travel once or twice a year to visit my family. Also, afford a new (used) car when I needed it, which isn't every year of course..

I once asked a member of a famously rich family what it was like to be a so-and-so. I got a little side eye (this wasn't the first time he'd been asked this, apparently) but he was gracious enough to answer. He said, "Well, it meant I got to do what I wanted to do in life," and to be honest, he'd had a pretty great but not extravagant life. He had the sense to find meaningful work. There was plenty of wreckage in the family to serve as a warning about idleness.

The thing is that is usually 'book worth', namely the value of a company that they are part of. I have a cousin that was worth $50M on Monday, and $5M on Friday. His tech company stock tanked, and that was that. He never did make any of it back.

Aubrey McClendon went from $1.25B to calling his neighbors selling bottles out of his wine collection to pay his utility bills for the month in a very short amount of time.

I did just read that the number of these people dropped by 5.5% over last year, that is a large percent for such a large group.

I think these kinds of events are much, much more common than most Americans want to admit to, it shows that the 'American Dream' is just a big lie.

Do we have a Jealous Troll now?

R2- I don't consider Oprah dumb but she is of average intelligence and somehow she became a multi billionaire-ess.

She must have some great people investing her money over the years.

I called a guy I know who is part of a fancy law firm. I said I wanted to extract (big) dollars out of a certain person, he would give me the money and I would make sure he doesn't get 5 years with the Feds amongst other embarrassing things. I said 'is this legal?'

And to my shock he said- 'oh, we do this all the time! You wouldn't believe how stupid rich people are.'

IDK but I just felt my IQ dip reading R15.

I might say “nominally jealous”. I’d love to be rich, of course. But I probably shouldn’t be, because I’d do all the drugs and aggressively demand sex with whomever I wanted. So, it’s probably best that I’m nothing, honestly. It allows me to focus on anime, fantasy worlds, history, classical music, and conceptualizing the übertwink, all things that I would’ve probably ignored as an abusive junkie billionaire. Gotta get precious dopamine drip from somewhere in the end, and my own brain is a more reliable source than the stock market (or substances over time).

R16 I'm R15 ... back in the stone age, when they used to test for IQs in schools, mine would consistently come back in the mid 170s hahaha. I use deliberately bad grammar and spelling on this site to piss people off.

No. Well, unless they're fat.

Lens Dunham is worth an estimated $12 million. I guess that's the low end of rich but still rich but not rich compared to $3.5 billion of Oprah Winfrey.

Well R18 I'm only average I'm sure so maybe that's why I couldn't tease any sense from your post at R15.

Here's the thing - I think everyone knows that after a certain amount, money doesn't buy happiness. In fact, it's a whole that needs to be filled - and, in my opinion, it makes people go off the deep end in ego trips, power moves, and the things that money can't normally buy.

THAT is a cancer on society. All the super wealthy wanting to control everyone's lives and pass more laws so they can have more power.

We should be actively working AGAINST this - and talk about it more. Not every billionaire is an asshole, but we really don't need billionaires. It leads to excess, bribery, crime and ABUSE of people, democracies, laws, etc.

It's a 'hole' not a 'whole'! mea culpa

Not jealous of the money per se but I'm more and I don't jealous is the right word, but the freedom. The freedom not only do as you wish when you wish but of the not constantly worrying about all the things we regular folks all have to deal with everyday. Even making 6 figures. Bills, job security, hoping not to encounter accidents and legal troubles and not put yourself in a hole. It's a recurring cross to bear in most of our lives and so for that I do long for what they have in that sense.

[quote] You know what I always say: Anybody can make money -- it just depends on how low you're willing to stoop.

How much money are you talking about? What is stooping low?

Are you talking about McDonald's? Yes, that's "making money," but not exactly getting rich.

Hooking? Not everybody is attractive enough to be a hooker and I'm not joking.

Point is: the majority of people, even if they tried to "stoop low," would not be rich.

Not really. I just want to never worry about money, and being rich would take away a chunk of anxiety.

Nope. Afraid of some of them, yes

No.

I have never been rich, but there have been times when I have had stable passive income, money, equity, and control of my time while everyone around me was facing disaster. Money has always seemed to come and go while I’m focused on something interesting.

I just don’t have the cultural capital to survive as a rich person. I know a few savers who have given me guidance I refused to take, but I don’t know any rich people. Those I know who have “made it” disappear.

We should always fare as well as r28.

yes, i've been poor my whole life and poorer now than ever. i don't know what to do.

Present hole, R30.

Yes, I am jealous. Fuck, I am even jealous of middle class people. We are poor enough that we really have to be very careful with the food we buy.

I'm jealous of people who have financial security but I'm not jealous of people who are bottomless pits like Elon Musk. If I won a ten million lottery prize then I would have the life I want.

I wish my cardboard box was as big as the one next to me.

it's ridiculous that i consider myself NOT middle class with an income of 63k and a single person. But i'm sure i couldn't make this much in a cheaper part of the country, working for a non-profit, saving land. i'm barely scraping by and have NO retirement beyond social security to speak of. i have been working since i was 16, but what does that count for these days??

what does that say about our country?

R35 It says we are going to have the biggest economic collapse in centuries, and probably within the next few years.

I don’t think the collapse will be dramatic. It’s happening now. It’s the long emergencies, the slow degradation of customer service, the privatization of as many social services as possible, the increasingly elaborate schemes to keep profit growing eternally, even as younger generations are having fewer kids. This dystopia will be loooooong and boring.

One is jealous of what one has. "I am jealous of my husband/wife." "I am jealous of my time."

One is envious of other people's possessions or abilities. "I envy his talent." "I envy her fashion sense."

I am not envious of rich people. Either they are nice people, in which case their being rich does not trouble me - or they are nasty people in which case who wants to be them?

That said, I could see plenty of use for a billion dollars or multiple billion (I have long-term interest in medical and conservation research and the thought of funding programs at a national level would make a nice life's work). It would be nice to kiss certain neuropathic disorders or physical traumas goodbye, to say nothing of securing clean air, water, soil and the continued existence of the monarch butterfly.

Fuck buying Twitter.

R7 I'm from the camp that believes buying a brand new car is like throwing money away. It's the truth. I've had a lot of cars over my lifetime and although I loved the brand new ones, they were a bad investment in the long run. Unless you can pay for the thing outright, don't buy a new vehicle. I've loved my used cars as much and even more than the new ones. You'll end up saving a wad of money buying 2nd hand. Leasing a car is also not a smart move, unless your company pays the lease of course.

I I’m jealous of people who don’t have to live in the upstairs-downstairs ecosystem of employment. I’m sick of being treated like a fucking maid just because I’m in a dead end job.

To R3, I am just the opposite. I went Low, real Low. I figured out at 10 yrs. old that Money made the world go round& if u had money, you had power. No one could save me from foster care nightmare except me. So, I saved myself!!

Did I become wealthy; u bet I did! And no one ever hurt me again!! Money can buy Happiness& everything and everyone else. It bought me the last 6 hours of my "non-DNA-dad's life", it was worth every dollar to watch him die in pain from no morphine.

Better than therapy!!

r40 completely agree. I'm from the same camp as well and i would never buy a new car. that's why i said new (used) car.

I'm more jealous of smart people who are rich. Wealth by itself isn't nearly as impressive as people who figured out the system and made it work for them

[quote]I'd like to live in a mansion but other than that, no.

You can have it. A mansion would be way too much work.

I'm not at all envious of rich people. Life is too short for such petty bitterness. I suppose if I were poor, I might feel different.

I admit I'm jealous of a dumb relative who has been making pretty good money since she was in her 20s.

Ive been able to internalize the “you don’t know what goes on behind closed doors” thing so I’m not envious of rich people. I look at Jeff Bezos and his blow up doll or his ex wife who is already divorced again or the former YouTube CEO who just lost her son to drugs and I figure they don’t really have it so good. The Kennedys are mostly trainwrecks, the Beckham kid and his “model” gf seem like zeros, Ruth Madoff lost all her money and all her kids. The Kardashian’s have given up every bit of privacy and it seems like no decent guy will go near any of them, any high profile Hollywood or media-type person has to participate in social media, but that puts them at risk of cancellation. Well, maybe they only get completely cancelled if they deserve it, but they get jumped on for petty stuff. That’s got to be stressful.

I have some regrets, but I remind myself that what I have is pretty good and who knows how another path might have turned out?

I’ve got what I need. But I’m envious / impressed by people who make money in online side hustles. Part of me scorns the loss of privacy and BS, but a bigger part admires the hustle. Why am I too lazy to create an AI face and body and sucker people out of $$? Why don’t I have instagram followers (or an instagram account) and get paid to promote products?

I’d like a 2000-3000 sqft weekend place overlooking the Hudson, but a lot of that is wanting a project. I love designing / renovating / building homes but I’m too old to take the financial risk now. I’d also like a 2 bedroom prewar instead of my 1 bedroom white box. But I’m not envious of people who have those things, I just want them.

I get envious at work when other people get opportunities that look interesting. But that passes because I know it’s a probably grass is greener thing.

I think life tends to be more unfair on the downside than the upside. Horrible tragedies can come out of nowhere - that woman who lost her kids to Rebecca Grossman’s recklessness, the AIDS epidemic, the shit show in Palestine. But usually people who are rich have done something right. I’m not saying they are necessarily good people but they have worked hard or cultivated the right people or taken risk or all three. And taking risk is the big one. Because a lot of people who do that fail. So if you take risk, you deserve to be compensated. It’s not just luck. Jeff Bezos got hugely lucky, but he also took risk. He wasn’t just smart and hard working. He doesn’t “deserve” as much money as he has, but he probably deserves it as much as anyone else. The fact that he has too much is a failing of our tax code, not his personal ethics (whether or not all Amazon employees are treated appropriately wrt bathroom breaks, etc. does reflect on him).

Seizing wealth is a slippery slope and inheritance taxes can produce sub-optimal results due to work arounds. But there has to be a better way. I’m not envious of people with billions, I don’t want their billions (well, I’d take them if they were offered), but it’s not the right allocation of resources. Maybe a billion dollars is an appropriate reward for building a company or being the greatest entertainer in the world. But hundreds of billions could buy a country. Nobody should have a personal fortune that size.

I hope in the next decade or so we get a leader who can bring some of the billionaires to the table and work out a way forward out of this new gilded age. Because letting them hide behind their personal charity empires like Gates tries to do is bullshit. I admire Bezos for not doing that.

Who is Rebecca Grossman and why are there two threads that mention her?

Inquiring minds want to know (without looking it up).

No, I honestly don't think I am. I think most of what rich people want and do is idiotic. I might be fooling myself, but deep down, no, I think most rich people love stupid shit and do stupid shit and I don't care about the things they love, and don't envy them for having them.

[quote] But I’m envious / impressed by people who make money in online side hustles.... Why am I too lazy to create an AI face and body and sucker people out of $$? Why don’t I have instagram followers (or an instagram account) and get paid to promote products?

You must be young. I wouldn't aspire to this way of making money. (Except for the income part.)

Absolutely not. I like nice things, living within my means, and a life of ease, but I don't care for excess, or lauding what I have over other people, who might have less. It's shameful.

I'm not jealous of rich people, but I do get exasperated and pissed off at people I know who have money and cry broke and complain how expensive things are and are very penurious. I have a cousin who is a millionaire, actually, worth about $5Million. He's the son of parents who worked hard saved money and invested wisely. His wealth is inherited. And he is Always complaining about spending money and insisting he can't afford things. We're talking about "Oh, that restaurant is too expensive."Or, "I'm not g0onna pay to rent that movie when it will be on cable in a few months." Petty stuff. He is phony. Because he does spend money on an expensive car or an elaborate vacation. It's only when he is with us that he puts on a show. With other people, he likes to flash.

Focus on yourself OP!

I do wonder. If every DLer could have 10 million dollars. Where would it go? Why? I bet at least 90 percent would be really stupid shit. And that's not because we are all terrible, but just the average human is just kind of stupid and has really stupid desires.

If I had $10 M I'd set up a Trust, and have the Trust buy me a nice house in one place and a condo someplace else. I 'd take my family (9 of us all together) on a nice vacation, maybe spend about $150,000. I'd give my two sisters each $2M towards their retirement. Then I'd have the Trust pay my living expenses, and enjoy my life. Go to NYC to see plays or the Opera, from time to time.Donate some money to some worthy causes.

r54 not me. I feel so strongly that wealth should be shared. If I have more than I need, I will give it to those that need it.

I don't understand people that don't feel the same way. We should all want our fellow humans to exist with basic needs and rights.

I think I would too r56. I think I would. I can be selfish and shy, but if somebody dumped a ton of money on me, I can't really imagine not trying to at least spread it around.

R55, I think you over-estimate how much you can do with $10 million.

[quote] I do wonder. If every DLer could have 10 million dollars. Where would it go? Why? I bet at least 90 percent would be really stupid shit. And that's not because we are all terrible, but just the average human is just kind of stupid and has really stupid desires.

I think a lot of people just don't think to apply simple math to finances.

Jealousy isn't an emotion I tend to feel.

But I am familiar with loathing

I don't think I feel it, really deep down, either r60. I mean, I get that people are smarter or hotter or better in various ways, but honestly, I don't think I have that thing where I hate them for it. But I do worry that I am fooling myself.

R44 Right on, big houses are a lot of work, upkeep and IMO, silly. I live in a huge house. I built it as something I knew would turn a good profit one day when it is time to sell. That was a while back so I've had to update along the way (Expensive! Aggravating!). We live our lives in basically 3-4 rooms. The kitchen, family room, bath and bedroom. Everything else is just fluff. I have a few vacation homes, but one that is truly perfect at 1100 sq ft. It's easy to keep clean and updated. I want to retire to that little vacay house someday. Big homes, mansions, etc are just a way of saying, Look at me! I'm wealthy! Neener-neener, I got stuff!

so true r62. I mean, I get it, if you have the whole damn lifestyle, with the servants and everything. But just having a big house for the sake of having a big house. It just seems so damn stupid.

No. I’m doing fine and that’s all I’ve ever aspired to. I don’t need to drive a tank or live in a McMansion, and I don’t envy those who do.

Even if you have the whole life style with staff, etc. you still don’t escape all the headaches - you just trade the headache of mowing the lawn or getting the dishwasher fixed for the headache of managing your employees. And you give up a lot of privacy.

That’s why I think 2000 to 3000 square feet is ideal even if money is no object. And 1500 sq ft is more than adequate. But you don’t see a lot of really high quality construction in the below 2500 sq ft range, even if you are looking at 80 to 100 year-old homes. They might be solidly built, but the layouts and details get more interesting when you get closer to 3000. That‘s my powerball sweet spot. You can get most of the utility and elegance of a larger home and have space for a few guests but you can still maintain it with a housekeeper coming in once or twice a week and lawn service. You don’t need to do much management of people to avoid doing the literal dirty work yourself. And if you enjoy the dirty work, it’s not unrealistic to do it yourself.

Similar with cars and non-primary residences. I want to go through a car wash a few times a year, not have a relationship with a retailer. I’d like a second home in addition to my apartment, but I only have the apartment for work. If I didn’t have to work I’d just have one home. I’m not too good to stay in a hotel.

I’ve also noticed that some people with money try to jockey for social position like high schoolers. One of my regrets is that I didn’t devote enough time to maintaining relationships and valuing people, but that’s different from trying to suck up to so and so down the street because they are the big shot in town. Hard pass on that nonsense. So I think I’m being honest with myself when I claim I’m not jealous of rich people.

^ I don’t want to have a relationship with a car detailer, retailer is a typo. But that, too.

[quote] I’m not too good to stay in a hotel.

Whew. Thank goodness.

I’m not jealous of rich idiots like Musk or Bezos. I am jealous of people who don’t have to worry about spending their elder years in poverty. The psychological toll of financial woes cannot be overstated.

I dislike rich people, but the ones I loathe the most are the ones making $200,000 and somewhat above. At least the very rich admit they are rich. It's the $200,000+ people who try to lie by claiming not to be rich. They say that because of all the ways they choose to use their money (especially their choice to live in a high cost area), it leaves them with little money leftover.

I used to be against raising the OASDI taxable maximum, because of the original principle of how the contribution and benefit were tied. Now I'll all for soaking the people above the limit. Income above the current max should be taxed at double the rate for income below the current max. It's time to for those people to feel some of the pain that less fortunate people feel.

$200k a year isn't rich.

R71 is case in point of rich person claiming not to be rich. I’m in favor of confiscatory taxes levied on people like him.

I'm not jealous of their money, per se. I'm jealous of their ability to do whatever they want within the confines of society and the law (and sometimes over those confines) and not have to work.

If I had unlimited choices and didn't have to work and had the money to go and do whatever, I can only imagine what my choices would be. Not exorbitant, mind you. Just travel within reason and stay at medium accommodations and have my house and life taken care of while I'm gone. Come back, pay for more education on my terms, own as many pets as I wanted.

[quote]If I had unlimited choices and didn't have to work and had the money to go and do whatever, I can only imagine what my choices would be

Experience: drink lots of scotch, reread Agatha Christie novels because I forgot the ending due to scotch, and use my pets as therapists.

OP why would you be jealous of rich people? They got rich by stomping over other folks and using people. So NO. What does RICH mean anyway? You can be dirt poor but rich with family and friends. Money ain't the be all and end all in life.

Not jealous as such, but when I see idiots like the Kardashians with millions of dollars, it makes me think the world is fucked up.

Money buys freedom. Ironically, most of us poor jerks work our asses off chasing that pot of gold, and we give up our freedom in pursuit of wealth. If there was some easy way to get wealthy I'd go for it.

I don’t envy the vulgar and nouveau riche. I abhor them.

I am envious of people who don't have to worry about their finances and can take nice vacations.

I resent people who don't have to worry about their financial situation, and they assume everyone else is just like them. They are insensitive assholes. The other thing I learned is that you don't have to be intelligent to get rich. Or talented. I used to be surprised to meet some wealthy local guy who was just really not imaginative or wise. For example, In our community there was a guy who just died, who owned five car dealerships. He was really wealthy. But he was beyond ordinary. It pissed me off.

R80 here. I will add that if you happened to walk into one of his dealerships he was usually there. He was around keeping his hands on things. So that meant something I guess.

At its highest use (IMO), money should buy you freedom. Freedom from certain types of worry.

Someone asked Oprah: "Does money buy happiness?"

Oprah stopped, thought about it, and said: "No, but it can pave the way."

I'm not an Oprah fan, but I thought that was a really good answer.

Money doesn’t buy happiness, but lack of money sure buys a lot of stress and struggling

Actually - money can buy happiness, within limits. To say it doesn't is just stupid.

Think about the things or experiences you've bought that have brought you great memories or joy to look at or use.

Nothing makes you idiot-like happy all the time. That's not human.

But poverty and stressing over money absolutely detracts from life - everyone knows that.

I sometimes wonder how many people live outside their means and have big credit card bills.

At the weekend I took my mum out for the day, we had a nice long walk and stopped at a cafe for lunch. It was my treat and I was happy to pay, but inwardly I was quite surprised at the price of two light lunches and two non-alcoholic drinks to go with it.

In the queue, a woman was buying five meals as she was there with her family and I was thinking... Christ, if you pay this every time you go out to eat, you must be stony broke. I'm a childless gay with a reasonably well paid job and even I thought it was pricey. The cafe was packed with families, too, so surely some of those people mustn't really be able to afford it, but do it anyway.

Two things that happened recently that made me reevaluate the obsession with money-

My mother had a parcel of property that would’ve been worth $7 million if it had been handled properly over the past four decades. It became a huge liability to my brother and myself, and we had to unload it for about $300,000. After taxes and setting money aside for her medical bills, we each made about $50,000. It was push and pull the entire time, caused a rift between my brother and I, and I never want to be in a real estate sale situation like that ever again. I had bouts of diarrhea every time the realtor called or emailed because he found a new problem that would cost $2000 to fix.

It made me realize that if I were wealthy, I could’ve turned a profit from that sale, because that’s what the guy that brought it did. There was always the illusion my mom perpetuated since childhood that we were wealthy because we owned this property, and that illusion popped into dark dismay when we spoke to the lawyers and realtors about all the problems that would have to be solved to sell it.

My brother and I, who cannot agree on anything would’ve had to partner our finances and sink hundreds of thousands of dollars into it- with NO guarantee on the other side of it, or that the entire real estate market would crash or slow like it has today. Only an already wealthy person could do this. This is pretty much how the bulk of the economy is, and that much of the risk that wealthy people take nowadays is well protected. Or to say more strongly, RIGGED.

The other thing that happened is my husband went out and started his own company and made well over $150,000 last year. Although the money was great, I was so scared it was going to change him for the worse. He’s such a loving person and I was very worried the money would change or distort him. It did not, his business has cooled a bit, and if anything, it gave me more resolve to focus on my OWN career more rather than resting on any laurels that there would be his money to lean on. For me, that being that scared for several months he was going to change FAR OUTWEIGHED any bank balance or wealth I may have enjoyed. I have seen how money changes people, and not always for the best.

His mother showed up to our wedding wearing a Versace dress, and I really thought I had married into money, only to discover she is all smoke and mirrors. He has well relatives, but has always been it every day work kind of person.

I love him just the way he is.

R86 Did you inherit a crumbling Gilded Age mansion? That whole situation sounds so disappointing.

R86 That sounds tough. I know of a similar situation with my cousins who inherited some land with a derelict house on. There was no need for the house to become derelict, but their mother didn't want to have any tenants so she let it go to rack and ruin and now it's her children's problem.

R87, My mom ruled that land with an iron fist having bought it with her inheritance money.

The property was 120 acres of land that had no frontage, had my mother purchased a few acres of frontage anywhere along the perimeter in the 70’s for a few thousand dollars and handled a series of small issues back then, it would’ve significantly increased the value. No house on the land, we lived a hundred miles away. I feel she was suckered into the purchase, because she assumed a LOT of things were ok, but when evaluated decades later by another realtor, she was dead wrong, about her assumption especially about right of ways and building/utility rights.

Even when confronted with the truth, she blamed the realtor that sold it to her rather than take any responsibility at all- this was a stubborn vein of resistance my brother and I had to deal with until she sunk into her dementia that swept it away.

I think a lot of families will have to deal with the same thing as Boomers refuse to give up control until it’s too late.

There were serious issues with personal liability, that we could’ve been sued or forced to pay thousands in insurance to protect ourselves if someone was injured. It became a money pit when my mother could no longer pay the $10K in taxes.

There were a series of other problems, mostly other relatives trying to ensconce themselves into ownership and taking full advantage of my mother’s gullibility.

Money, or the attraction of wealth really brings the worst out of people.

Do you really think they appreciate it on the daily? I don't.

I think they grow accustomed to having it and they don't wake up everyday thinking the day is glorious because they're rich! I think buying things changes for them. Instead of being grateful they can buy a couch, they've got to buy the fanciest couch or they won't get the same high.

It's like the regression to the mean incorporates being rich and anything below your standard is looked down upon, which is a lot. I think this is why so many rich people become snobs, to cling to staying rich. When some people lose it all, they kill themselves. They can only see the value of life through money.

Then there's making it yourself versus being given it. Rich people born wealthy can be horribly depressed. Being wealthy doesn't insulate you from the pain of life, like heartbreak, illness, being a target for your money.

Wouldn't like to be like the 1% who have all the money in the world and still want more. Would like to think I was more like that wonderful woman who recently gave away $1 billion to the medical school so students wouldn't be burdened with school debt. Wasn't that great? With all the terrible things happening all the time, that made my day.

Kurt Cobain was a famous millionaire and killed himself.

R90 Possibly correct. I've also heard of lottery winners whose lives ended up being miserable after the novelty of winning wore off. Most couples who go public as lottery winners usually seem to end up separating and friends fall out with them because they feel they should have got more than they were offered.

If I ever play something like the Euro Millions I do wonder how much I'd give to people. Even if I won upwards of £50m I wouldn't be giving millions to friends, as that wouldn't be appropriate, but I'm pretty sure some friends would say "he's worth £50m, he should have given me at least £2m, the tight bastard".

I'm 99% sure that it wouldn't buy me happiness or health - at most it would feel nice to have a big buffer of security and be able to do more things. So I don't let it bother me too much that others have it.

I never envy anyone. You never know what they are really dealing with.

[quote]If I ever play something like the Euro Millions I do wonder how much I'd give to people. Even if I won upwards of £50m I wouldn't be giving millions to friends, as that wouldn't be appropriate, but I'm pretty sure some friends would say "he's worth £50m, he should have given me at least £2m, the tight bastard".

This is why I would try my best to keep it secret but I get that it would be really hard to explain why I suddenly have a lot more money.

No. The sheer amount of energy it takes to be self-made is fucking brutal. You have to live that effort 24/7 - whether you’re in tech or finance or real estate. The people I know who have ascended the ranks and are now wealthy dont have time for anything else but work. It consumes every fiber of their being.

No fucking thank you.

And the people I know with generational wealth are totally odd - and many times, totally unhappy. Can’t sustain relationships, depressed, aimless. Wholly unrelatable.

I’m fine with my solid yet meager middle class life.

R96 I'd just say I inherited money. No need to offer more details.

R97 Agreed. I never understand work obsessed wealthy people who keep toiling away. If I got to be a millionaire through work I'd be retiring, not working till I was 70 while bringing in more and more money. It's only gonna go to someone else when you drop dead.

No, not at all. Since university I've known a great many people with real money through my profession and interests.

Do I wish I had that kind of money? Yes. Absolutely. But am I consumed with not acquiring it? With not having it? No. I have what I have and feel fortunate for it. I saw early on in life the extreme spread between a sort of middle class prosperity and people with enormous wealth. More than a few of my colleagues over the years were undone by jealousy of people with real money; it caused them to sour of the world and stew in a sea of resentment and self-loathing. But from a young age, jealousy struck me as senseless, a black hole with no reward. As has been said, no one benefits from jealousy.

Part of me always wants a bigger, better, more spectacular house, with better views, or an extra house in another favorite place, or more room to spread out, or better things with which to furnish it, better art for the walls... But having an appetite for better things is not the same as beating yourself up for not having them, nor the same as being jealous of others -- resenting them for (or romanticizing them) for their stuff, for their money.

Money buys a lot of things. The best house, the best art, the best healthcare money can buy, freedom from having to worry about where the money is going to come from for a loan payment, a meal, heat, security against the worries of the employed, the underemployed, the unemployable. But for fuck's sake, what's the point of being jealous of rich people? You may as well be jealous of their shortcomings because those are much more easily acquired.

Not really. I do know quite a few rich people who have miserable marriages, children off the rails, or their own demons to fight. Having a nice car and a large home doesn't fix those problems.

Of all the human afflictions that can make us unhappy (and I have some of them, e.g. jealousy which is close to envy, impatience, selfishness), envy is not one, certainly of wealthy people.

I am affluent myself, not big money but millions. The magnitude of wealth both in numbers of people and the size of the wealth is depressing to me because it is skewed and self destructive.. Taxes in general are low in the US and loopholes for the wealthy abound. I ought to know. If anything I feel guilty about it. There is a reasonable expectation for wealth and fair taxation. The US is far away from that expectation right now and wealth disparity is one of our biggest problems. I would gladly give up 10% of my income to fund universal health care.

The wealthy people I know well tend to be Democrats and philanthropic. But I know others whose greed and entitlement is delusional. It’s that crowd which depresses me and by the way, uses the Republican party to institutionalize their great wealth.

I've heard this too R97. I've heard easy to get but it's hard work staying there.

[quote]I never understand work obsessed wealthy people who keep toiling away.

Self-validation and societal validation, I suppose. They might have come from nothing, know their fortune emerged from sheer graft, so at some level fear that stopping will halt all that validation.

Toiling might give them a buzz nothing else does - the type who has never cultivated any other compelling interests, and really fears the void of retirement. Loss of status, nothing to fill the days.

It's inspiring though when artists, writers and film-makers in no need of another big payday stick to their craft with passion. As though there's always so much more to explore, express and share.

R101 are you envious of billionaires? Say you have a boat in a marina, something many would consider a luxury. Are you envious when a super luxe mega yacht pulls in with a staff?

Things like that can make a 'wealthy person ' feel poor.

Point of information keying off R69, R71 and R72.

[Quote] $200k a year isn't rich.

Gross income of $200,000 a year in the United States means that person earns more than nineteen out of twenty individuals. I’d say that’s very comfortable; but not “rich.”

Just over twice that amount, $415,000 per year, would put the person in the top 1%: ninety-nine out of every hundred people have less.

But true economic “richness,” in my opinion, is measured by wealth/net worth . Income can fluctuate dramatically (you get a bonus one year, you get laid off the next). Wealth, unless treated carelessly, tends to endure for years.

For households, the top 5% of net worth begins at a home, plus about $3,250,000 in other assets.

The top 1% begins with a primary home and about $12,500,000 in additional assets.

I think most people would say the owner of the latter (which should reliably generate an inflation protected 1/2 million dollars in annual income) is rich.

I’m jealous of pussy

[quote]are you envious of billionaires?

Reminds me of a biographer's line about Conrad Black and his adventurous wife. 'They were millionaires who sought the status of billionaires.' This appetite led to Black being jailed for fraud.

R47 lists problems that normal people have. I’d still rather be disgustingly rich over middle class and dealing with issues like a child’s OD or divorces.

A lot of people who win the lottery are not financially bright...to say the least. So t hey get exploited by predators and a lot of "new friends" and relatives and hangers on. And they themselves blow money on what they think rich people do, or just party it away. Suz Orman's mantra was your wealth is measured not by how much money you make, but by how much you keep. She was referring to us working stiffs, the people who make a very good salary but have to work for a living. Because a lot of people who make nice money go all out on self indulgences. And that's fine to do once in a while but saving and investing for the long haul is a lot smarter. That goes for lottery winners too. The very first thing a Lottery winner ought to do is hire a really good lawyer who can set up a trust. And a really good, legitimate f inancial advisor. Set aside some money to "play." Set aside some money to help worthy friends and relatives, but don't become their "bank." and donate some money to worthy charities. But invest the rest and give yourself a monthly allowance.

R109 lol yes. Just yesterday there was someone in the tennis thread confused about why top players took business class flights instead of private planes. Even after telling him an example price of a private flight, he didn't get it. These players are still not billionaires but millionaires who fly dozens of times a year: why would you throw away so much of your money on that?

Some people just have very little financial acumen or concept of keeping the capital. Just think you should live a billionaire lifestyle and fritter it away like Mike Tyson did.

Elder Sage, you thought you married into money because your mother-in-law worr a Versace dress to the wedding?

Wore, not worr.

Also, grossing $150,000, if you are running a company, isn’t a crazy amount of money. There are expenses. You were *that* worried he was going to change? What was he doing, before?

R110 - Ferdinand Habsburg-Lothringen flies coach most of the time. There's probably between 15-25 billion dollars between his two parents. He also shares a not-so-spectacular apartment with his sister.

R110 Besides, business class is fine on most flights. You get food and drink brought to you, you can usually raise a screen for privacy and your seat turns into a bed when you want sleep. You'd have to be very picky to think that's not good enough.

R111, The whole family presented wealthy, and I was taught it’s uncouth to ask…

it wasn’t just the Versace dress, but the lavish way she carried herself and poise. Any thought that I married into money was fleeting because I married for love. I should also say the dress really was top drawer and over the top- something Bezo’s fiancée would’ve worn, electric blue with metal spikes and epaulets!

He also had an extremely wealthy aunt and uncle I met, and yeah, I wasn’t privy to the intricacies of his personal wealth until after we married.

I have known rich people quite a lot and they were all very happy and healthy. Poor people like to think that money is not happiness, it’s true, but the number of unhappy rich people is extremely low.

Jealousy is a very ugly thing, op, and so are you in anything backless.

More envious, sadly.

You can “marry for love” and still have a clear view of what you’re walking into, financially, with your partner. I don’t think it’s uncouth or not romantic to find out before marriage.

Also, if I saw a woman dressed up like Jeff Bezos’ wife, I would not think: “wealthy.”

Keep your eye on Silicon Valley and maybe Austin if you want to be wealthy. Walk down University Ave. in Palo Alto and you will be passing an international throng of billion and millionaires who are not snappy dressers.

True, R121. Also, aside from not being snappy dressers, they drive normal vehicles like Toyotas and Nissans. Sure there are people driving Bentleys and Ferraris but some of these people don't want to stand out in that way. About the most ostentatious cars I regularly see around my very wealthy, (and conservative) neighborhood are late model Mercedes. No one wants to be followed home or stand out from the crowd because they look like they might be a good target. I wouldn't want to be with someone hauling a Birkin bag unless it was a high security area.

I know someone whose dad owns like 50 franchises of subway (just an example). He guy is a fuck up. He's supposed to be a lawyer but he's a booze addict and does blow. Real fucked up.

I’m grateful that I have a roof over my head, a warm bed to sleep in and food on the table. I’m grateful for my existence however humble it may be.

R110 It wouldn't be throwing money away. It's a business expense (you have to be there to play there) and thus deductible.

R120 if I saw a woman dressed up like Jeff Bezos’ wife, I would not think: “wealthy.”

You're right: I'd think "How much does she get for anal?

[quote] It's a business expense (you have to be there to play there) and thus deductible.

No. Djokovic for example, is resident in Monaco where you don't have to pay tax.

R39- In 2019 I bought a 2017 Toyota Camry LE with 7,000 from a Toyota dealer. I paid $17,000 which seemed low even pre covid. I have had ZERO problems with it in the over 4 1/2 years I have owned it. It looked and felt like almost like a new car when I bought it and I still drive it carefully and park it carefully- as to not get any dents but unfortunately it does have a decent amount of tree sap on it- but its still in nice condition but there's no glossiness to the paint finish. I should go to a car wash and get it waxed or something.

It’s not very materialistic at all. I don’t really care for holidays in glamorous locations, designer clothes, fancy cars, etc.

However, I am recently plagued with the thought that £50000 would literally change my life (by enabling me to move to a better house in a nicer area), and I keep pondering on the fact that my best friend earns that in just 4 months. He deserves it, and I don’t envy him, but it is sobering to think that he has so many more possibilities than I do.

Also, my employer has started to lay people off. It’s an uncertain time and I’m worried about the future, as I have spent too long in the one job and have few prospects.. I suppose I am envious of people who have enough cash not to have these worries!

If you knew the reality, R78, as a business person or if you were self employed, you'd quickly realize it's the new money who spend spend spend --not the old money/patricians They're often tighter than two coats of paint.

One of the wealthiest guys I ever knew was the step father of my best friend from childhood. Had his and hers matching Corvettes, a huge house in the hills, etc. He made all his money from buying rental properties. Nicest guy you'd ever meet. If my friend was visiting me we would drive down to see him and he would always take us out to dinner along with his wife and three sons. One of the things that I noticed was that he would take us to places where he had coupons...like 2 for one dinner deals, or appetizer sampler deals, or buy a dinner, get one to take home kind of stuff. It always struck me as strange since he had SO much money but then I realized that's precisely why he had so much money...the dude was smart. Why pay for two dinners when you could get one free?

Sadly, he died from Covid before the vaccine was available and man do I miss him. He was so kind and funny. I would say I envied him, but wasn't jealous. He was just a smart guy and understood money in a way my very poor family never did. I learned a lot from him. I was going to buy a house one year out here in CA and it was a 611 sq foot house for $300,000. He told me not to do it because that price was crazy for such a tiny space and in an area that wasn't desirable. He said he looked at real estate and houses as simply "Sticks and stones" and said getting emotionally attached to a house is one of the dumbest things anyone can do. He was right, although that house has now gone up $200,000 (ridiculous). At the time, I would have been struggling to make the $1600 per month payment and likely would have been miserable living in such a small space. That house has sold a few times since I wanted to buy it but there are always couples living there. It's essentially a bachelor apartment with a garage and no yard.

[quote]One of the wealthiest guys I ever knew... Had his and hers matching Corvettes,

Vulgar.

His real estate advice doesn't seem very sound either.

Right after I wrote that I went on zillow to see what that house is now listed as worth...713,000. In 10 years it went from 330,000 to that. It's 681 square feet so it's $1175 a sq foot. It's in a crappy area next to a bad, run down apartment complex. It's California so everything here is so expensive. But it was listed for sale last year and hasn't sold at that price so good luck to the current owners. The property taxes have doubled in 10 years, too.

I'm glad I didn't buy it but now that I see those numbers, yeah, his advice kind of sucked. Oh well. I wouldn't have been approved for the loan 10 years ago anyway.

so what would you do with 150K win fall?

[quote]so what would you do with 150K win fall?

150k is barely anything these days - can't buy a decent house in a good area or do much with it - so I would just put it in an index tracker fund. Although if you're young enough and willing to train for a better career that would make you money, it'd be worth investing it towards that.

150k I would invest it.

Why can you say about a guy like Jeff? At least he's not Elon? Or Bill Gates?

Money is called 'sad leaf' in some South American indigenous cultures. The love and connection felt to others cannot be bought.

But yeah money's nice.

Jealousy is weakness.

You’ll never be happy while you’re fixated on the lives of others.

Worry about yourself, not worthless “celebrities,”

Yes they have a freedom and security I don't have. It's a pain worrying about money and how a lack of it can stop everything dead in its tracks.

Famous rich people? not jealous of them. Don't really think about them. But what I do resent is the wealthy, or very well to do people I am acquainted with who complain all the time and seem consumed with worry about how much they spend. They seem preoccupied with their material wealthy. It doesn't seem to give them joy.

I know one person who has become a millionaire through hard work and luck, getting promotions to VP at mid sized and large corporate organizations, and they are totally consumed with their ability to enjoy material comforts. There seems to be no inner life. They remodeled their kitchen. It was ridiculously elaborate and it was gorgeous. Tastefully, expensively renovated.

Four years later they were "tired of it," and did another remodel. I have never in my life got rid of furniture or done a remodel because I was tired of it. Everything I buy in terms of my home, except for a coat of paint, has been out of necessity. So yeah I guess I resent them at times. But they're really nice. We just don't have a lot in common.

The same drive that gets some to the top makes it impossible for them to enjoy anything because they can't turn it off. There is no relax, there is no appreciate.

I'm not jealous of how rich people spend their money today. Nothing but trash. I'd love to be a Park Avenue socialite in the olden days, though.

[quote] If my friend was visiting me we would drive down to see him and he would always take us out to dinner along with his wife and three sons. One of the things that I noticed was that he would take us to places where he had coupons...

Did Corvette man pick up the tab for the entire table? Did he tip on the amount it would have been without the coupons?

Corvettes aren't that expensive, compared to other flashy types of cars.

Yeah, I don't know about the real estate advice. If the property did appreciate, despite it not being in a good area ... sounds like it would have been a good investment. The size of a house is not a deal breaker, either. You can always add to the house.