It's a shame that Knots Landing isn't streaming anywhere.

I agree wholeheartedly. Knots was a great series. It was my favorite ‘80s soap, by far.

You type fat, however.

I agree, OP. It’s been up and down on YouTube over the years. You can buy very inexpensive digital downloads of the show — mostly SOAPnet rips, I think.

I watched it in reruns/syndication when I was 10-11 one summer in the early nineties.

I was HOOKED!!!!

I would revisit the 83-84 season- it was so soapy and awesome.

It had that cliffhanger in the hotel with --spoiler------- Karen getting shot, Val getting kidnapped by the "Wolfbridge Group"

R3! You’re tempting me so much!

I’ve never seen the complete Season 6 with the Val’s babies plot line. I want to.

Awesome season as well, R5

I remember the 86-87 season which I think was right after Val's babies---Regarding 86-87--I HATED that tropical version of the theme- it sucked ass. And the look of the show changed from that cinematic film stock to this videotape look. I learned later they did the same shit to Dallas and that other show with that ugly old lady and the winery.

Definitely its prime was 81-86 then probably 87-91.

But for me- It was that 83-84 season- It was SO soapy but with Knot's wonderful character driven undercurrent. And all the chicks had on high fashions too. It wass the pinnacle of the 80's really.

Claudia Lonow made it into the opening credits in the fifth season and was let go right after. I can see why. They made Diana into such a raving bitch and her treatment of Karen was awful.

I first started watching when TNT used to rerun it in the 90s as their “lunchbox TV” block. I started with Season 5 and then caught up on the earlier seasons when it cycled back.

Ben’s story was never adequately resolved, in my opinion.

I’m definitely in the minority—I preferred the first four or so seasons of Knots Landing, before it became a soap. It was much more realistic in those years, and the episodes were self-contained. In those early years, Knots was a drama similar in feel to Family with Sada Thompson.

I think it became soapy once Abby and Gary hooked up at the end of Season 3. Season 4 had Chip and Ciji and all those stories. I could have done without Greg Sumner. He never made the show more interesting for me except at Laura’s funeral.

There were times when “Six Feet Under” felt tonally like “Knots” to me. It really did. And the. I read an interview with Joan can Ark where she said somebody called it “Knots Landing in a Funeral Home.” She was in awe of “Six Feet Under.”

Fuck Knott's Landing

I loved Knots Landing. Ted Shackelford was so hot in his prime. I bet Gary Ewing had the biggest dick of all the Ewing men.

Since none of you boys appear to be busy, tonight - could one of you nice young men give me a hand with my home perm?

As long as there is no lye, R14.

The writers and producers made sure to always add something domestic to the episodes to bring it down to earth a little.

R15 Oh Mama!

Laura driving herself to a hospice to die was pretty powerful. They were toying with the idea of Laura and Cigi having a lesbian fling but it never happened. Probably too much for the Knott's fans to handle.

Miss Ellie was fun when she was scolding JR or the men of the cartel. But Lilimae had so much more to do. Could you imagine Miss Ellie sending one of her sons down from a roof top? Ahhh... Lilimae, you lovely lilttle angel.

SWALLOW THE PILLS VAL!

I love 86-87. It's definately the soapiest year, but I don't remember it suffering much from the videotape look like Dallas did with the weird new lighting and Southfork set with the mini swimming pool.

The only thing that bothered me about that 86-87 was all the hollering and chest beating done by the male cast. In each episode Ben, Mac, Greg, and Gary all had moments where they would randomly yell their lines, presumably for dramatic effect.

I am completely drawing a blank on this videotape look you guys are talking about. Does anyone have an actual example?

Paramount acquired Spelling Television many years ago. Don’t know why they don’t make everything available on their streaming service.

Loved the episode when Abby and Olivia were in the house battling over Olivia’s drug problem.

I tried to find it a few weeks ago, and no luck.

R21- I hated the look- You can actually see it in your screenshot. It was videotapey and almost had more "natural" light- But it cheapened the aesthetic. Even as a 10-11 year old watching the reruns, I noticed it immediately,

I remember being on my mom's treadmill (I was a fat little fuck and decided to lose weight that summer and become a hunk)

When the new season clearly started (they played an episode every day, and I could always tell which episode was the season cliffhanger) And that tropical song started and even the credits had that cheap videotape look, I was like WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY DO TO MY SHOW!!!!!

And I may be getting seasons mixed up... Was the videotaped look season the one where Karen has that shitty haircut and is stuck in the basement?? I know it was 86-87. I have to go google that season now.

I’m loving all these posts!

I forget which season it was, but there’s a cliffhanger where Abby’s been kidnapped and one of the last scenes (maybe the freeze frame) is Abby’s face framed by the back window of a car or limo.

The next season picks right up where the prior ended ( I think maybe they have Abby on a boat) with the characters wearing the same outfits, etc. However, many of the cast members have different haircuts/styles… Abby’s hair is very dramatically different.

Shit! Okay- Val's babies was 84-85... 85-86 ended with Karen in the basement.

86-87 returned with the Jamaican theme song, Karen's shitty hair cut, and the cheap videotape! Solved.

Damn great show. For me- 83-85 was epic. And then the show was pretty great for the rest of its run. Hated the aesthetic though. It really looked to "natural".

And I vaguely recall one of the final seasons where the show really went downhill for a year and they completely stopped production to revamp it-

And I remember homeless Anne. And enjoying that too.

Bitch, that is MY episode and favorite season!!! 83-84 She was kidnapped by the Wolfbridge Group . There was a SPOILER----- Bomb in Gary's car, Karen got shot-

I think Abby had on a really cool polka dot sweater.

And I also remember the change in hairstyles!!!! LOL That was what was cool about watching an episode every day.

R27, I forgot to type your #. You my bitch. See R29

I don't think Knots Landing did freeze frames, I think it was a stylistic choice.

R28, I think that was the 1991-92 season. The creative staff had all decamped to work on the critically acclaimed new show “Home Front” and things went downhill.

Correct - It was not a freezeframe of Abby- but a closeup of her in the rear window.

This finale had a rapid fire of things all happening within 60 seconds. It was a PERFECT cliffhanger.

However, the final shot of 83-84 was a freeze-frame!

It was of Karen----

Let me give you bitches what you need..

DO NOT WATCH IF YOU HAVE NEVER WATCHED THE SHOW!!!!

I don't want this great season spoiled!

This is the last 5 minutes of 83-84---

Shit- I think above was a synopsis rather than the actual cliffhanger-

THIS is the real episode here- Quality sucks- But its SO worth it.

And it ends in a freezeframe.

I remember the patented “Knots Landing Sad Music.” They used it when Val had a tumor and may have to wear a colostomy bag, the end of the episode when Sid dies, when Greg is watching Laura’s videotaped farewell and even a couple times in “Back to the Cul-de-Sac.”

The haunted house episode was a riot. It just comes out of nowhere. I suspect it was done as a nod to Julie Harris’s role in “The Haunting,”

Abby does have a great zinger to Laura in it when she says, “You and your boss know a lot about motels!”

Val from poor teen mom to best selling novelist

Abby from cul de sac slut to corporate titan

My favorite character was Karen, but Laura was also interesting.

My favorite was Stacy Galina.

NOT!!!!!!

Oh man she was charisma free.

One of Knots rare casting misfires-

OP, I give you a five star smooch and a WW, simply for spelling Knots Landing correctly....

I find this thread utterly fascinating.

I really liked Knots Landings scoring from 83-85 as well. The show had some great themes.

As I have grown up there are 3 television shows that come to mind with excellent scores- All soaps- Most shows did not have great scores/background music... Or classic shows like The Sopranos did not use a score- but popular music (to great effect)

The Young and The Restless- the 1980-2005 era

Knots Landing- 83-86 era- just really memorable music- as you can see in the cliffhanger above.

One Life To Live- 85-90 era- This was a composer named Michel Camilo who worked for Score Productions. Very electronic/keyboard and extremely modern at the time

R42 I was never a fan of Y&R but caught it in that era during some petsitting/babysitting summer days and I agree, it really had some great cues and a very cinematic score to it.

I watched Y&R around the same era as Knots above- late 80's - early 90's (then especially later on Youtube) Yes- it was very orchestral and cinematic- Really beautiful stuff.

I love the Peter Hollister murder story.

Watching Abby dragging around his body and burying it in cement at Lotus Point in a power suit, all because she thought Olivia killed him. Meanwhile, Olivia went along with the coverup because she thought Abby killed him.

Then her coverup was exposed by buttinsiy Karen, who noticed a crack in the cement.

The story gave us this great scene between Abby and Paige, making it clear that Paige would never be a replacement for Abby or Laura.

Great series, when Val got her babies back, WOW,what a relief,we were finally able to go on with our own lives,,,

After doing a bit of digging I've found a site where the whole series is uploaded. I wish I could post it here more stealthfully. After doing a few keyword searches it's a common request on DL.

R47- I have tried... I even googled datalounge and knots landing- nada.... Give me a hint

Cool, just copy the address at the link. To lessen the risk the address will expire after a few hours. So good to watch it again, the quality is nice too.

INSANE. R49 , you rule.

I tie the best KL years to Lotus Point, from the time Abby and Karen inherited the land up to the point they abandoned the site. Lotus Point had the great advantage to get all characters together in various storylines without having to come up with any outrageous plot devices. After Lotus Point was gone they started to have very separate storylines where people hardly mingled anymore. You couldn't have Val at Sumner Group or Sumner in Karen's stupid radio station.

I think that is 83-86 R51?

And I know that 1982 was pretty great too-

Yeah, I think that was the timeframe. I think the 82/83 season when Abby is getting her own office at the bay and getting entangled with the Woodbridge (?) group sows the seeds about Lotus Point when they inherit land from Abby's and Sid's uncle.

Thanks for that link. I just watched the pilot. I had no idea that Sid has another daughter and was married before. I also didn't realize that Gary and Val were so young.

[quote]It's a shame that Knots Landing isn't streaming anywhere.

It's a shame that Follies was never made into a movie.

R54- No thanks! I went straight to 1983!

Hated that first 2 years. I am here for the soap!

I lived for Jill Bennett's increasingly bizarre and homicidal attempts to keep Val and Gary apart.

I think that season was Knot's "comeback" was that 1988??

I am all about 83-86 and then Jill Bennett and Danny Waleska

R36, is this the same music you referenced?

Early lesson (season 3, episode 17) at Abby’s school.

R59, that’s a great clip but it’s not the music I was thinking of. I just found it here and it starts at the 36 second mark.

R31 - I recall at least one. It was at Sumner's ranch and Val and Laura are in a panic over a gunshot fearing Gary (or was it Ben?) shot Greg. Then Greg shows up and Val freaks the fuck out and goes running out onto the lanai with a jarring freeze frame on her face. Oh, that's right, they also did a slow-mo freeze frame for the cliffhanger when Val finally found the twins.

R7 - Claudia Lonow was fired because she was out of control backstage. Heavy into coke and screwing the crew out in the open. Lonow has talked about it, and it even served as the premise for her fun but failed Showtime series "Rude Awakening". Lonow has done quite well for herself since then. She was also kind of a nepo-baby (parents in the biz, but not "famous" to the general public).

Shit! You are all going to drive me crazy now....

I love "Specific character" themes- I have to go find Abby's theme for you--- I can still hear it in my mind, 30 years later...

Thats why I loved OLTL- There was Tina's theme- Gabrielle had multiple themes- her scheming theme, her sad theme, her romantic theme..

I believe abby's theme was played a lot during ' Val's baby's".. and earlier. probably 83-85

r39 - Galina was probably the worst leading actor ever on the show. She needed to wear a cowbell just so her presence registered on screen. I have no idea why we lost Olivia (Tonya Crowe) with all of her built-in history for this insipid character and her painfully passionless love life with sizzling Alex Barth and then grandpa Gary.

Does anyone know why Galina took over for Danielle Brisebois as Mary Frances?

Damn! yes- here it is- Abby's theme. starts at :32

and after a quick review of that 84-86 era- Knots had beautiful background music/scoring.

Another beautiful example of the scoring on Knots-

R65- Stacy Gagina was a charisma void. A black hole.

AGREED!!!!

I was so caught up in how cute Michael was on Knots, that I totally missed how sexy Gary was.

R66 - I don't know if she turned them down or just wasn't approached, or if she asked for too much money. But I think by the time Mary Frances reappeared (which of course turned out to not be Mary Frances but an uncanny doppelgänger), Brisebois was already transitioning into a musical career and no longer acting. She's had some success as a singer/songwriter/producer.

[quote] I was so caught up in how cute Michael was on Knots

I hope you mean older adult Michael in the later seasons...

Val’s house needed an exorcism or it needed to be saged or something.

In addition to poor Val, all of the other occupants were pretty unstable—Chip the murderer; Lilimae, who ran over Chip deliberately and then nagged her crazy son to suicide; wifebeater Joshua; low budget Manchurian Candidate Ben, who tried to strangle Lilimae one night; psycho wifebeating drunk Danny….

[quote]I hope you mean older adult Michael in the later seasons...

Yes, but just to be clear, Patrick Petersen, who played Michael, is 5 years older than me.

Alex Barth was sex on legs.

R61, thanks for posting. I remember that music now.

The whole story leading up to Laura’s death was so well done. Her leaving the video taped messages was cutting edge at the time, and still resonates. I’ll always remember her telling Meg that she’s going to be told she can’t wear pink (because she’s a redhead) and Laura telling her wear pink regardless.

I just finished season 3, episode 19, entitled Night. This was an episode written by John Pleshette (who never gets enough credit, in my opinion). It’s the episode where Richard has a breakdown and holds pregnant Laura hostage. What a great piece of television.

I wanted Gary Sandy, Gary Frank, and Gary Ewing (well, Ted Shackleford) to take turns sticking their fat knobs in my mouth.

That cul-de-sac always seemed like a giant nasty inflamed pore that needed to be reamed out and disinfected.

What happened to Laura's kid with Richard?

Laura’s two sons went to live with Richard after she died.

Except for the murder of Diana Taylor on General Hospital the plot line where she tries to get Val to commit suicide or make it look like she committed suicide on Knots Landing is the best soap opera plot.

I wish that they had brought the show back in the early 2000s, with Mack investigating a eco-terrorist group, Paige and Greg married but cheating on each other, Abby buying the entire cul-de-sac, Karen relapsing on Vicodin, Meg growing up and taking more after Greg than Laura, Val and Gary's twins falling in with a weird cult, and Michael Fairgate returning to town married to a man.

"an eco-terrorist group"

In the first season, the cul-de-sac looks way less manicured. Val's lawn needs a good watering, some fertilizer and a trim. The actors must have felt like it was their real home after a few years of filming. Did the actors get to hang out in the homes they were filming in, or were they occupied privately like those in the soap Neighbours?

In Neighbours the actors would never be seen entering or leaving the properties, only walking along the driveways, but I'm pretty sure on Knots I've seen them entering and leaving the properties, in and out of the front doors.

[quote] and that other show with that ugly old lady and the winery.

How dare you! I was once married to President Reagan.

Ciji washing up on shore.

Remember Vals Karen haircut in season 12

Yeah, R86. They def came in and out of the houses. There is a scene in maybe season 4 or 5 where Val is sitting on the second floor balcony outside her “room.” Van Ark said in an interview I saw that that actual room was freezing and the cul-de-sac was in an airplane flight path.

Lisa Hartman's singing was pretty dreadful.

Even worse, R89, was Val’s ultimate 80s do in Season 9.

The show had problems coming up with a new opening credits identity after season 8. Season 9 had the slowed down, b/w intro. Season 10 was the same but in color. Then was the really boring sandcastle opening that was terrible. Then an updated sliding pictures computer generated variation with the same sandcastle theme. Finally the producers said fuck it for the final season and put back the rousing Season 5-6 theme, just truncated. (My favorite theme was Season 4.)

If anybody had the Season 1 DVDs, they had good extras. The commentary on the pilot is fun with Van Ark and Shackelford. And there’s an interview with the two of them when Shackelford gets emotional and starts to cry.

Is Knots Landing a suburb of LA?

I loved the final season theme!!!!! It was fantastic and a perfect final ending

Would anyone with the season 1 DVD be able to upload the pilot with the commentary track to a private YouTube channel or something? Don't want to awaken the Lorimar copyright obsessives.

The season 12 “Val hit her head and is crazy” story was lame. Although it did seem they were hinting at or chemistry testing a possible Anne/Gary matchup.

I recall a scene in the Christmas episode of that season, in which Anne walks into a church service and sits right next to Gary, who is without Val but with the twins.

Fucking Donna Mills-

I do not even care about whatever expert surgery she had to look this fucking amazing at 82!!!!????

It is her vibe and attitude that kept her looking and feeling this great-

Her moment at the end about the last chapter caught me off guard and solidified that this is one cool lady.

And how did she keep the same eyes/eye shape and not look like a freak??

Her surgeon is a MASTER.

She could pass for 58.

It's funny that when Karen met Mac she hated him and called him a creep, yet 5 minutes later they went out to dinner, hit it off, and started kissing on the first date. The producers were keen to see Karen partnered and thought they had hit paydirt when they saw the chemistry of their introductory meeting.

[quote]Did the actors get to hang out in the homes they were filming in, or were they occupied privately like those in the soap Neighbours?

The cul-de-sac was located at Crystalaire Place in Granada Hills. They were private homes, used for exteriors. (The interiors were studio sets.) I knew someone associated with Knots Landing back in the day who told me that the houses were probably paid for many times over by the $$$ paid by production.

[quote] Lisa Hartman's singing was pretty dreadful.

R91 = Kim Lankford

R93 - Favorite opening credits:

1. Parade of floating frameless boxes (seasons 3 - 8) 2. Spinning shoreline onto cul-de-sac (season 1 & 2) 3. Sandcastles (season 11) 4. Parade of floating color-frame boxes (seasons 12 - 14) 5. "Leroy Neiman" with overly dramatic head shots (season 9 & 10) - Bleech

To me also the theme music degraded over time. I'm partial to the earlier years which was more jaunty and aggressive. Overtime it became way more flowery and soft, taking a decidedly jazzy turn. It improved towards the end of the run, returning a little to the initial music.

I thought there was an opening where Constance McCashin does a very agressive head pivot, but I can't find it, so I must have imagined it.

The Connie head pivot was the opening shot in the 'artful' opening that most dislike, but I actually have a soft spot for it.

You didn’t imagine it, R105. It was the opening of Season 9 but McCashin was only in a few episodes that season before being written off so it was removed pretty quickly.

It was hilarious.

I liked how Karen’s kids were written as pretty real kids. Diana was a very realistic girl who could be a brat. The boys were good and they weren’t overly precocious. Poor Steve Shaw. What a horrible end. Can’t find the tribute to him they had on the show after his death.

OMG, thank you R106!

I forgot about Karen's haircut.

Getting rid of Lilimae-and not bringing her back after the suicide attempt, Val and Gary’s wedding, and Val’s “death”-didn’t make sense. Although Karen was given a throwaway line at Val’s funeral, saying that Lilimae and Lucy were both traveling and couldn’t back in time or something.

Was Lilimae sent away for budget reasons?

I remember a season where the budget was so tight that Michele Lee worked for scale on a few episodes so that she could appear in all of the episodes.

Yes Lilimae and Laura were both canned for budgetary reasons. They were all quite open about it. No 'wants to pursue other opportunities' b/s.

Michele Lee acknowledged that she voluntarily had her pay cut for the very last season because she felt that Karen was the glue that held everything together and should be in every episode (which I personally agree with). But she swears that she didn't work for scale.

I liked Laura and was sad they killed get off. It was good to see her develop from a meek housewife who had daytime dalliances with men in bars to the wisecracking, sarcastic character she became. (The ending of the sad season one episode -when it appears she’ll keep playing around while Val watches aghast- it effective)

But her death had lasting repercussions all through the rest of the series and into the reunion movie so at least they never forgot her.

Agree, R112. The show was a spinoff for Gary and Val but Karen dominated right from the pilot. The moment she runs over to the Ewings with her dry cleaning in hand, it’s her show.

Yeah. Laura got a better plot in death than when the character was alive.

They needed to fund a way to better incorporate Val/Gary/Karen/Mack into the Sumner Group storylines after Abby left and Lotus Point went away-they dud correct it in the final two seasons, but the seasons immediately after Abby left feel like there two different shows, with the vets in one corner and the Sumner Group characters (Greg, Anne, Paige, etx) in the other corner.

Maybe make Karen the head of the Sumner Foundation-Greg appoints her so she can create something that Laura and Meg would be proud of. Or have Gary join the Board of Directors or end up embroiled in a fight with Greg because he wants to buy Gary’s ranch and build houses.

Donna does look great. She really looks even better than she did about 10ish years ago when she was on General Hospital.

Probably a combo of good living and a masterful surgeon. But she does have a bit of an old lady voice, and she's wearing more billowy things, so she may have osteo issues or the like.

Morgan Fairchild, unfortunately, went overboard with surgery and fillers and now looks like a Cabbage Patch doll.

[quote]Val getting kidnapped by the "Wolfbridge Group"

It wasn’t Val, it was Abby. Val was with Gary, where they had narrowly escaped getting into his exploding car. The car explosion was really set up to be expected as the “cliffhanger” in pre-show press, which is why it was such a shock when they shot Karen and THAT was the big cliffhanger.

R116 - The show went overboard with the Sumner Group stories. It felt like an entirely different show and had little to do anymore with the trials and tribulations of middle class suburbanites. They also royally screwed up making Paige more of a victim than a scheming bitch, they didn't know WHAT to do with Linda Fairgate who did have potential, and worst of all they foisted moon pie-eyed frau Claudia and her dull as dishwater daughter down our throats. Adding insult to injury, they quickly dispatched the two most interesting characters tied to the new family Whittaker (hotties Alex Barth and Steve Brewer). That show was a mess after Abby left, with Anne (Michelle Phillips) being one of the very few newer highlights.

I loved it when the concrete cracked. That was so Knots Landing. You would never get something like that on Dallas. And I'm still in awe how DL and especially JVA pulled off the Verna/amnesia story without going all campy and blowing it.

JVA deserves more credit than she gets. The scene where she transforms as she does her makeup — the really trusted her and didn’t chop that scene… I doubt we’d get something like that in our current era.

Poor Val.

Season One DVD extras.

Only seasons 1 and 2 ever got an official DVD release. I finally visited the cup-de-sac last year and I was sad to see that it’s a total dump these days. Construction and torn up houses plus way too many bubba trucks parked around there. I stayed 10 minutes and quickly left.

R124, I visited at least 20 years ago and thought it was cool to see in person. It looked pretty much the same (some of the homes were painted a different color) but SO tiny. I think when they first started filming that whole area was in the early stages of development and not a lot of the surrounding homes were occupied and/or still being built. I think ET filmed in the surrounding neighborhood.

Here's the listing for Karen's home. Kenny's and Ginger's was for sale a few years ago too.

R125 I had a similar experience when I visited Southfork probably 20 years ago. The house, although nice, seemed tiny and not like the Southfork we watched on Dallas. Also most of the land around it had been subdivided with tract houses. It totally shattered my idea of Southfork. I know, MARY!

One thing I did notice about Knots is the set designers made a concerted effort to make the inside of the cul de sac homes resemble the exterior. The link above with Karen’s house. Unlike Southfork, which is a McMansion in reality but presented as a grand home on Dallas.

It was really a great premise for a soap. The 40ish established married couple, the new married couple with the naive wife, the I just want to feel any kind of spark again married couple with the loud mouth husband, and then you have Val and Gary dropped into the mix. Even without the corporate stories and Sumner, they could have told years of story just from those couples for years.

I only recently noticed that there is a picture window to the right of Karen’s front door that wasn’t part of the set. On the set, it went right to the garage.

It's funny that Lilimae was turned out to be the missing piece that you couldn't get over. The show was never the same when she left. It would have been easier for me to do without Karen.

I could have done without Lisa Hartman butchering music.

For R132, 🎵I’m in love today, never thought I’d feel this way…🎵

R132, I just now watched Lisa Hartman’s first episode. She sang Open Arms. I thought she sounded good.

^ But Ciji's mullet was dreadful. And why did they give Val that horrible mullet? Didn't they learn their lesson with Ciji?

R135, I’m right there with on the mullets. I think Karen’s might’ve been the worse.

Ciji‘s hair in her very first appearance was not doing her any favors.

Reading all these posts and comments makes me remember how much I loved this show. It was just a… nice show. That’s all I can say. It was like checking in on friends. Very dramatic friends, but friends.

Due to this thread I’m now in a rewatch. I started in the middle of season three. I’m now in early season four. The show is so good.

Anyone have theories on the Joe Cooper character. Think there was more planned for him? He gets a lot of airtime in season three and a bit so far in early season four. He has a girlfriend who pops us for two or episodes… overall, his character seems totally unnecessary. I like the actor. I just wonder if there was a bigger story in plan that was shelved for some reason.

I want to be a Pollyanna. I don’t want to look at the world through rose colored glasses. I want the world to be rose colored. I want people to be nice. People should be nice. Nice should be the norm

I want to send cash in the mail.

Why did they kill Don Murray off?

Too much plaid. There was just no way back.

I thought Markie Post was a great singer on Knots.

I love the way Donna looks in this reunion clip. Everything, especially the hair, is so age appropriate and she looks good. Love the hair. Of course Lee can never shut the fuck up. I've never seen Michelle Lee on any talk show when she just couldn't sit back and stop being "ON".

R138, I felt Joe Cooper was just a stopgap character they created to give Karen a male lead to work with before they introduced a new love interest for her. As if Karen wasn’t strong enough to exist on her own for a while but women always had to have a man, whether husband or brother.

I wish they had known how to use Doug Sheehan better. He was such a great actor and so hot. His character was just meh. There were a lot of other options besides making him Val's doormat.

Upthread, somebody said Karen became addicted to Vicodin.

It was actually the famous and not at all made up pharmaceutical “Escondine.”

Jill and Val's pill cliffhanger. These two had such chemistry. Their scenes together were always awesome. Plus Jill looked really good in that wig.

Loved when Abby went up to Jill and said something to effect of, “From the second Mrs. Ewing to the soon to be third Mrs. Ewing- the first Mrs. Ewing doesn’t go away. Ever.”

It's a shame that you think it's a shame.

For you , r149

R146 Sheehan chubbed out a little in his final year didn't he? Went from a jock to more of a beefy hunk, but he looked overweight in a couple of episodes. The one where he is jogging in sweats and is obviously out of shape.

Thank you, R151. Love that scene.

That scene begins Jill’s descent into madness. She became really paranoid about Gary and Val after that. Then Peter died and she couldn’t mourn her brother because of his con that he was Greg Sumner’s long lost brother.

Didn’t she steal his ashes from Greg’s house during Laura’s memorial service?

Yes, she did R154. And smacked Paige with the bag his urn was in.

OMG Jill was the best/worst. I was in Florida on Spring Break and we went to Disney World during the week she framed Val for her murder. My friend (who was also a KL freak) and I made sure we left the park early that night and were back in the hotel to watch that episode.

There isn't enough talk about Laura and all she brought to the table.

Ok, Constance at R157, how about Laura’s terrible haircut in Season 4?

To be fair, as it grew out, it started to look quite nice as evidenced at Gary and Abby’s wedding the following season.

Jill was the shit. She should have had an Emmy

I heard every word you said.

Sheehan was already a bit chubs on GH. He always went up and down.

Sheehan should have played against type. They should have made him Sumner's son. Out to gain control of the company or something like that hooked him up with Paige. Sheehan and Devane looked so much alike.

They are just ten years apart. But I guess Hollywood can make that work. I gave birth to my eldest when I was nine.

Loved Ava Gardner's brief run as Greg's mother, Ruth Galveston.

If they had such budget issues, why fire Julie Harris only to immediately bring in Betsy Palmer to play useless Aunt Ginny, who basically did the same thing Julie Harris did, only badly.

Can we all agree Nicolette Sheridan ruined the show?

That ridiculous romance with a man old enough to be her grandfather.

Was she the Anna Nicole of the cul-de-sac?

Nope, we can't. I liked Paige.

I forgot about Aunt Ginny.

I loved Paige and Sumner.

I guess Betsy Palmer was cheaper than Julie Harris, plus Betsy wasn't a series regular.

And Jill's plans almost became unraveled because of new neighbor Frank, his lovely wife Pat, and mustached daughter Julie. The tension became unbearable when mustached Julie went over to babysit the twins, and Frank told Pat he thought Val a "weird neighbor" because he didn't know Jill was holding her at gunpoint.

Who played Julie? Wasn't it Gene Shalit?

Does anyone remember the retarded children of Knots Landing? There had to be something in the water there. Betsy & Bobby, Meg, Brian, Jason... they all suffered from Lindsay Sydney Greenbush disease. At least the girl who played Meg had a great stripper name- Rhianna Janette.

Betsy and Bobby seemed slow, but considering they were raised by a mentally ill hick mother and a revolving door of lunatic relatives and stepfathers, they were remarkably stable.

Once Betsy and Bobby were found, their story was essentially over.

The only children on the cul de sac who were developed were the Fairgate kids and Olivia.

The twin brothers who played Bobby had some great moments, like when Danny Waleska revealed the truth about their paternity: "He's not your uncle, Bobby! He's your father!"

Danny was a very enjoyable psycho villain.

Long before "Six Feet Under," "Knots" showed us the really twisted side of certain Californians who make great first impressions but then go on to become your worst nightmare.

People seemed to love Linda Fairgate, but I couldn't stand her. She never had the depth that other villains had on KL. She was so terribly one-dimensional. And next to Paige it was hard to establish another blonde mid-twenties character. Nicolette Sheridan really made Paige special.

The writers should have had Abby force Gary to adopt Brian and Olivia to ensure a trust fund for them, and distract him from Val and the twins.

I loved Olivia-she was the only character (except maybe Sid) whose approval Abby sought.

Linda went through more metamorphoses than Kafka ever dreamed of. First she was an annoying control-freak Vegan granola girl. Then she became a hussy chasing after her husband's brother and her boss. Then she turned into a shrewd, sharp-elbowed business woman. Then she was a wounded little girl with mommy issues and fought with Karen. And ultimately she was just a corpse lying in a pile of her own blood with a slit throat.

I liked Julie, but I though Betsy was a hoot with that crazy over-the-top drawl. Betsy was played more for laughs whereas Julie did more drama.

Ava Gardner was a star, but in truth I got more fun out of Ruth Roman's longer stint on the show. My God, that voice. She must've smoked four packs a day.

[quote] There isn't enough talk about Laura and all she brought to the table.

Laura never could get her drapes and carpet to match.

R149 - Probably my favorite line in the whole series. It sums up Gary and Val's 14 year storyline.

I think Richard was on to something when he accused Laura and Ciji of being rug munchers. They probably would've gone for it if he hadn't said anything about it.

[quote] the new married couple with the naive wife

Ginger was a So Cal surfer chick with a wild younger sister, and she herself had had an abortion as a late teen (maybe even before Roe v Wade). She married a record producer. I don't think Ginger was all that naive, she was just kind of dumb.

All Laura brought to the table was a Thanksgiving meal.

Wasn’t the guy who played the older Fairgate brother an alkie who was dropped because of his problems? And then he died in a car crash a few months later.

I love Laura.

R145, thanks for the reply. Your theory makes sense.

Laura’s goodbye.

I hated Linda at first, the frumpy clothing and the wig. But she immediately started doing her job, which was to rub Karen the wrong way. Once she started to develop a few sharp edges I started to like her, and was aghast at the way she died. It seemed as if she was being poised to take over KL. But she really wasn't, unlike Paige and Abby she wasn't a fully developed character and had no moral core at all. And they certainly took a sadistic thrill in finishing her off!

R189 - Look at the hypocritical bitch Karen. Sure, she loved Laura...

"YOUR HUSBAND LEFT YOU! EVERY TIME YOU TELL THE POLICE RICHARD IS A KILLER YOU DISTRACT THEM FROM CATCHING CHIP!"

Oh, and Karen thoroughly enjoyed having Laura get her coffee and a bagel every morning at Lotus Point.

Wasn't Linda written out because of a retooling? It's been a long time, so I'm probably mixing shit up. I thought there was a season where the show took a break for retooling because of ratings or something like that. They may have gotten a new show runner and writing team, changed direction and Linda was let go after that. I really liked the character and it seemed like the show had big plans for her and then poof it was over.

I think her death happened in the first part of season 13. David Jacobs wasn't happy to see Linda Fairgate go. He was like 'it's fine if you [the showrunners at the time] mix things up, but do you actually have a plan how to move on without her?' Later that season he put the show on hiatus and hired new showrunners.

R186, I had never heard that about Steve Shaw. Does anybody know any stories about substance abuse?

[quote] think her death happened in the first part of season 13. David Jacobs wasn't happy to see Linda Fairgate go. He was like 'it's fine if you [the showrunners at the time] mix things up, but do you actually have a plan how to move on without her?'

Linda Fairgate was never that important of a character that they would need to retool the show for her absence.

They did stop production in season 13.

The previous showrunners- the Lechowicks- left at the end of season 12 to write/produce their new show, Homefront.

The new writers created a bunch of stupid stories-Gary and Paige working on Tidal Energy, Val teaching someone to read, and the violent murder of Linda Fairgate. None of it felt like the old Knots Landing.

They stopped production to regroup. Ann Marcus-who created the Val/Gary/Abby triangle In season 3-was brought back. The show began to feel like the old Knots Landing, but the damage was done.

R192- Read above (or actually we have discussed the retool in an old thread)

You are 100% correct. I believe Linda's death was one of the retooled episodes towards the end of the disaster season.

(I think it was 1991)

I recall her gory death- it was pretty striking and gory. And I had really grown to like her! She was one of the only good things about that season.

Correct! 3rd episode of Season 13 (Sept 1991) is Linda's final episode--- R193 is right!

I just IMDB'ed it-

(For some reason I thought it was the end of Season 12)

Was Season 12- 90-91 the fucked up season??

Paige was what? 17???

Fucking a 67 yr old man (Greg).

Season 12 was the Lechowick’s last season. 13 is the fucked up one.

Sheridan was 23 when she joined the show. At that point Devane was 47... and allegedly the same age as Paige's father.

Lar Park Lincoln auditioned for the part of young Abby in flashback. Her debut episode is S9 E8, and bookended by the final episodes of Julie Harris and Constance McCashin. But Linda doesn't return for almost 2 years (S11 E2) minus the wig with the darker hair.

In between, Lar played Sally's friend (S10 E22) with her voice dubbed by Teri Austin who had just been killed off the show. This was several episodes before Donna Mills' exit and there were rumors that "Sally's friend "was to bring about a Gary/Linda romance.

R202 Linda's debut is the same episode as the Abby flashback featuring Micheal York, with 2 different actresses playing young Abby and Karen.

In that episode Karen meets Linda, along with Kristy Swanson who plays Michael's love interest. Both of whom Karen disapproves of.

Poor Val

[quote] Both of whom Karen disapproves of.

Shocking, I know. I laughed when Paige casually tells Michael that his mother is a yenta.

I must be in the minority because I actually thought that the Tidal Energy story had potential. It reminded me a little of the old days with Empire Valley and when Sid was working on his patent-less ethanol gas substitute. Plus, it had the always fuckable Mark Soper as a key figure, But it did go sideways as the show suddenly shifted gears. I also liked the potential of one of KL's socially aware stories by having Val teach some poor hick waitress (like her in her youth) how to read. For me, the truly awful later stories were (in no particular order):

Gary and the insufferable Kate

Gary and the insufferable Penny

Val's head injury and going crazy

Karen being stalked by her TV show producer

Paige overcoming her paralysis in a week or two

Oh, and the insufferable Kate

I don't know what season all that was, but it all happened around the same time (I think season 12, before Val "died"). I nearly quit the show which would've been unthinkable a year or two earlier. It never rebounded, but it did get better. I like the "Mac might have killed Meg's Aunt" story.

Who was the insufferable Kate? And Penny? Was Kate Stacey Galina?

Yes, Kate Whitaker was Greg's half-niece (Claudia being his half-sister). She was absolutely dreadful. She make Kim Lankford looks Oscar-worthy.

My bad, I confused the actress (Penny Peyser) with the character she played, Amanda. Penny was an extremely low-key but someone winsome actress, but her character seemed like even more of a doormat than Val did in the early seasons. She was raped (in a fairly graphic scene) by her ex husband who went on to marry Val. The character seemed utterly pointless. They tried the Ciji/Cathy Geary route by suddenly making her a nightclub singer and when all else failed she left town so fast she only had time for a roadside "See Ya" call to Gary. Total waste of time, and probably a total waste of the a decent but not great actress.

I also forgot that British chick who was "daringly" bisexual trying to bag both Alex and Kate. She was all caught up in corporate espionage at the Sumner Group (like everyone else was) and scared to death of some Big Bad who she ultimately shot dead. Another waste of time. She had an awful way of speaking, trying desperately to be super sexy by making every word sounds like she was trying to suck cock.

Sally’s friend was such a misfire. Was Mary Robeson supposed to be Laura’s aunt? I thought she was supposed to be Laura’s mother, but that would’ve been a huge retcon…

Karen being stalked was a story I didn’t like either time. At least the later story where Karen was a talk show host gave us Robin Strasser… all we got out of her first stalking/kidnapping was that terrible haircut.

I can totally believe someone wanting to kill Karen, but to hold her hostage? Or obsess over her? Pffft.

Thank you DLers for all the clips! I adored this show.

Could you imagine holding Karen hostage? My god she was an emotional vampire. 🧛

Hamas would have sent her and her rose colored glasses packing weeks ago. OMG

I ❤️ Lilimae. ♾️

I love the recent posts about not wanting to hold Karen hostage! I like Michelle Lee, but Karen’s self-righteousness got old sometimes.

Question for the historians: was Abby’s and Gary’s business venture with ethanol just dropped once Gary got his inheritance?

The Paige-Greg pairing was so ridiculous.

They should have had Michael start banging Lilimae. It would have been just as believable.

Gasp

I wanted to eat Chip's ass

I love how they subtly wrote that's Abby somehow knew not to f*** with Jill. Abby was a b**** but Joe was a psychopath and Abby knew or at least that's what I like to project onto their scenes together.

Paige and Linda battle to become 7s on the Abby Scale.

Who remembers Marcia, Karen’s assistant, who worked at both Knots Landing Motors and Lotus Point? She barely had any lines but was always in the background.

She once asked Karen if she could go to lunch and Karen barked, “No!!!!”

Though Abby stole Gary from Val which was a huge shakeup to the show, the ultimate rivalry was between Abby and Karen. They were so fun to watch. Loved when Karen bathed in on Abby and Gary’s love nest and Abby tried to say something and Karen responded, “YOU SHUTUP!!”

I agree, I think Abby was genuinely afraid of and respected Karen. I thought she saw Val as more of a nuisance.

[quote] Question for the historians: was Abby’s and Gary’s business venture with ethanol just dropped once Gary got his inheritance?

If I remember it right, Abby secretly coordinated a deal for Sid's workable ethanol plans to be sold to an oil company (maybe it was J.R.) who of course crushed it once he had the rights. Gary was mostly drunk and horny during those years and didn't necessarily know what the hell was going on.

My all time favorite episode was Phoenix Rising in Season 7. It’s such a showcase for Donna Mills. Were treated to a brutal fight with Gary, the cast all gathering at a gala where Abby finally comes clean about knowing Val’s babies were alive, Val pathetically going to Abby after and actually thanking her!!! On and on. It’s such a great episode. Noises Everywhere Parts 1 and 2 were also amazing. Just a fantastic show.

Jill was only a 3 on Abby's Scale. Abby never would have got her hands dirty the way Jill did. She would have found a way to get even and subdue Val in much more a subtle way. Abby treated Jill like the pariah she was after she became nuts, but I think she also had a tiny measure of sympathy for her too.

After their first round of sparring, Paige was declared a 6 on The Scale which was a high achievement. Linda started as a 2 but worked up to a 4 or 5.

The Abby Scale.

Karen’s facial reactions are so over the top in this scene. She’s like a mime or something.

I love that episode too, r224. Abby is threatened by Olivia, Peter and Greg over the course of the evening with divulging the secret that she knew about the kidnapping,. She becomes so fed up she reveals it herself in the most self serving way , while wearing an over the top gold gown.

The other character’s reactions are perfect. Karen whispers to Mack to do something. Val and Ben look terrified. Greg realizes Abby got one over on him. Gary knows Abby is full of shit but doesn’t know to what extent.

It’s a shame my boyfriend refers to my asshole as my balloon knot.

They slowly turned Cathy back into Ciji. She was even singing Ciji’s old songs at one point but it just wasn’t the same.

And the wedding dress she wore when she married Josh was so tacky, even the characters commented on it- including her dear friend Laura.

Lisa Hartman was so untalented she could have been the third Landers sister.

I think Michelle Lee was only contractually obligated to blink 6 times per episode. 👀

Michelle Lee would go into this blank stare at least once an episode. We called it her "moo-cow face."

I still rate people on the Abby Scale.

Even though it was lean times, the last season delivered. Mack and Karen had their first compelling storyline in years, Val got to play dead, Greg and Anne made for a fun diversion, and even the wooden Felicity Waterman managed to come through near the end when Abby appeared.

[quote] Karen’s facial reactions are so over the top in this scene. She’s like a mime or something.

14 fucking years on TV and you would think Michele Lee would have learned that TV is not the stage. She's always playing to the balcony, and so incredibly hammy she should have Boar's Head stamped on her forehead. That said, she does have a certain winsome quality about her that borders thisclose to camp. Without it she would be unbearable to watch.

Karen was much less hammy in scenes where she could let her hidden lesbian tendencies shine through like with her relationship with Paula Vertosick (Melinda Culea), in which sparks seemed to fly. Karen's hate lust towards Linda is what always made their scenes compelling too.

This is such a good scene. Watch until the end.

Lilimae sweeping in and stealing the scene. LOL

R238- The show found ways to creatively entangle Val and Abby for years. They didn’t have a lot of scenes together after season 3, but when they did, they were powerful.

A nice scene between Abby and Val after Jill tried to make Val kill herself.

Abby softened towards Val after she divorced Gary, and she had remorse for hurting her. It showed that Abby grew as a person-that is what made Knots so unique.

That scene r238 is one of my favorites. I love when Abby gets out of her Mercedes and looks around the cul de sac before entering Val’s home.

Any clips of Lilimae butchering Amazing Grace at Joshua's funeral?

(after news of Val’s “suicide” attempt)

Abby: I’m afraid something terrible has happened.

Olivia: What? Did you run out of eye makeup?

This is a nice scene from season four. Gary and Abby (not yet married) were in Dallas for the reading of Jock’s will. Val was there on a book tour for Capricorn Crude (JR showed up at one of her signings).

Lilimae. Karen and Laura with their long hair season as a bonus.

[quote]Lilimae sweeping in and stealing the scene. LOL

I can't decide what I loved more, her coming in and saying Abby Cunningham or Ben's reaction in the final shot. Even though Abby's reaction when Val tell's Olivia, "go with your mama" was good.

I love the way Lilimae calls her Abby Cunningham

R238 that is a great scene - thank you for posting. So much subtext, so many incredible performances that had little to do with the scripted lines.

It’s a shame you’re not slobbering on my balloon knot

R246 - I was thinking about Doug Sheehan in that scene. He had no lines and very little to do, but his posture and face spoke volumes. Really good scene with emotional payoff for longtime viewers. Tonya Crowe was a pretty darn good child actress, too. Dumping Olivia so early after Abby left was one of many missteps takes by TPTB in the later years.

Great scene R238- and it had Abby's theme too!! 2:30 until she comes to the door-

The photography was so much warmer in the first 6 or so seasons.

I totally agree R252- I mentioned this above-

The 86-87 season brought this weird videotapey "natural light' look... I did not like it at all.

The earlier seasons looked far more cinematic-

It went to the credits too, R253. They always looked flush with the screen but when the change happened, they looked like stickers you could peel off.

I can't imagine anyone here hasn't seen this already, but here's Donna Mills being interviewed for Pioneers of Television mostly about Knots. I like how candid she is and natural-seeming. She always seemed like the more stable, relatable personality compared to histrionic Lee and kooky Van Ark.

Speaking of which, here's ol' Boar's Head herself, Michele Lee...

And finally Kooky Van Ark. I wonder if Constance feels left out.

Let then have their interviews.

I've got a fresh bad of Cadbury mini-eggs with my name on it.

Constance, aren't you afraid with all that overly dramatic head spins you might choke on one of those Cadbury eggs?

The Constance is fat troll is so boring.

She looked great on The Locher Room.

JVA's face looks pretty decent in R257's video, compared to some of the other photos we've seen of her in recent years.

Constance McCashin seems like a smart, savvy, sensible lady who has been able to maintain a great sense of humor.

R261, she says in the video she’d recently been to Larry Hagman’s 80th birthday which Hagman celebrated in 2011.

Thanks, R262.

I'd invite you over for some of these family sized Little Debbie Zebra Cakes but there is barely enough for one.

R13 so true about Gary having the biggest cock of the Ewing men. You know Jock had a puny cocklet with low hangers. That's what made him so mean and ornery. Poor Miss Ellie ached to be filled. Bobby got a decent sized cock which satisfied Pam. Not nearly as big as Gary though. And JR's cock was practically non existent. That's why he hated his bigger dicked brother and it's why Sue Ellen drank. Big hats equal small cocks.

R265 - A friend of mine was hot and young in L.A. in the early-mid 80s. He was working as a waiter and got picked up by Shackleford which surprised me because that actor never really pinged for me. From his accounts, yes, Ted was well endowed and a mean fuck (in a good way). I guess he was bi? In the mid-late 80s, I hooked up once with Gordon Clapp (not a great experience) and he definitely portrays himself as hetero with wives and kiddies.

I’d like to hear about your encounter with Gordon Clapp.

He was a selfish, conceited jerk but at least the drapes matched the carpet. Also kind of pasty, freckled, and probably 20 years older than I was at the time.

R266 had the Clapp.

R261 I think that video was recorded on 2004-2006

Thanks R263!!!! I thought she looked about the age when she played Gloria on Y&R

[quote] I hooked up once with Gordon Clapp

Stories like this are why I love DL!!!!

[quote] I read an interview with Joan can Ark where she said somebody called it “Knots Landing in a Funeral Home.” She was in awe of “Six Feet Under.”

She was hoping to be cast as a corpse.

Ok, so I had to google Gordon Clapp. I had him confused with Gordon Jump of WKRP. But still a good story.

What did you do with Gordon Clapp sexually? Where and when did this happen?

The Malibu Beach house Gary & Abby move into in season 4.

Do you have a Clapper light in your bedroom R266?

Love McCashin. She stayed out of the spotlight for years and wouldn’t be interviewed or anything I think out of concern for her Social Work career. She was at the TV Land awards celebrating the show but was edited out, even when onstage. There was a photo of her, Van Ark and Julie Harris from several years ago when they reunited while Van Ark was doing “Medea” in Hartford, CT. McCashin and Harris both lived in MA.

She’s probably retired now. Was glad to see this interview.

When Ted was young he was hot for 1978

I watched those interviews. That Michele Lee is a lot. I still love her, but wow.

Regarding Conrad McCashin-

I am still pissed that he went inside my mother in Myrtle Beach and wiped his massive cock on the curtains.

He left her like an old piece of stale bread! Legs spread!

fuck you CONNIE

Somebody say bread?

I'll grab the cheese and roast beef!

If only charcuterie boards were a thing at Knots Landing in the 80s....I would shove Val into the fireplace for some salami and cheese.

Whoever stole Ellen from All My Children was a genius. Her character was underappreciated she was really good. I was surprised to see her turn up knots Landing.

Whoever thinks Gary is the best hog of the Ewing man never saw Bobby in his Speedos on Dallas hello I was about to walk out the door why it doesn't matter to me where do you want to meet yeah but I like the Red Robin a lot but it doesn't really matter to me what all right I'll be there I'll be there in like 20 minutes all right got you all righty all right bye

R285, did you have your phone on speaker dictation by chance?

[quote] Ok, so I had to google Gordon Clapp. I had him confused with Gordon Jump of WKRP. But still a good story

Bwaaaahaaahaaa. I could never be horny enough to fuck Gordon Jump. Or Gale Gordon.

[quote] That Michele Lee is a lot. I still love her, but wow.

Tell me about it.

R284 - Hi Kathleen. You were the poor man's Abby. If she was Neiman Marcus, you were the clearance rack at the local Lane Bryant.

R276 - Did they find all of Claudia Lonow's coke stash?

Loved in Season 5 when Eric has finally had enough of Diana and her bullshit and slaps the hell out of her.

And here it is!

Whoops. Here it is.

The scene would have been better if the whole cast lined up to slap Diana. I can see Michael towards the back cradling a crowbar.

R280 - This is what happens when you step into Michele Lee's light

One of Michele Lee's better moments. The early-middle years (seasons 3 - 10) were insanely good.

R296, thanks for that. God, chip was a creep and so well played (the slight grin on his face, the inflection on "Mom"! Note how little editing there is in that scene... Michelle knew her lines, how to deliver them effectively. The director got to let the camera sit still while she worked.

Claudia wasn't an Abby replacement. Claudia was just part schemer, part comic relief. She was sort of a Chico's version of Anne.

Lilimae mows that asshole Chip down. Unfortunately she missed Diana.

The combination of Diana being written as such an obnoxious little twit and Claudia Lonow's dreadful acting made me cringe everytime she got a storyline. Hated her.

I think Diana was so angry because she looked like that, while her two bothers, especially Michael, were quite smoking.

R298 - I hardly think the introduction of scheming, conniving Claudia mixing it up with Greg immediately following the departure of Abby was a mere coincidence. She was the new Abby. However, looking as she does, there was no way Noone was going to be as seductive as Mills although they certainly did waste time with her "romance" with smoking hot Boyd Kestner (Alex). Humor was also a part of all the characters. It took Michelle Phillips and Kathleen Noone to try to replace one Donna Mills, and still they failed. BTW, Phillips was funnier and believably sexy.

Re Diana: If my memory serves, I always apprecited that at the end of the show, Karen travelled out to NYC to spend time with Diana... they had put the past behind and I think it's Diana who convinces karen to go back west nd reconcile with Mac.

Can anyone corroborate?

R303, I think you’re correct. I think that story also included a mention of Karen’s brother Joe, who hadn’t been mentioned in years.

That is correct, r303/r304. Karen and Mack separated for a few episodes in the last season, she became fed up with Mack’s obsession with Mary Robeson.

Michelle Lee urged the producers for years to bring Diana back.

R303 - Yes, that was a nice touch. Even if "successful" Diana was living in what looked like a shithole studio in 1990s Hell's Kitchen...

It was kind like how they brought back Richard and Jason Avery for Laura's funeral.

Maybe they were making up for no one bothering to tell Annie Fairgate that her father was murdered. Come to think of it, did anyone ever tell Greg's first wife that their daughter, Mary Frances, was dead?

Paige had a taste for geriatric semen.

^ Geriatric RICH MAN semen.

Jane Sumner was told of her daughter’s death, r306, and we did see her onscreen.

Afterwords they had the ghost of Paul Galveston speaking to a grief stricken Greg . They wanted Constance McCashin to play Laura’s ghost instead, but she turned the producers down and brought Galveston on instead.

Jane Sumner reappeared on the show when Mary Frances died? I don't remember that at all.

It was a very brief scene r310. We didn’t see her at the funeral; Greg called to tell her and she had a few lines.

[quote]Paige had a taste for geriatric semen.

It sort of makes sense that Paige had daddy issues and sought out older men for validation.

Doug Savant played a young Mac in a 1986 episode.

I like Doug's brother, Idiot.

I did R286. I did. LOL

I love the Jaws-esque music they play as Lilimae stalks chip and then runs him down. These clips. God I love them. Chip was so fucking hot.

I thought Diana was written as a realistic teen her first few seasons. She was a pain in the ass, yes, but seemed real. But then she got skinny and met Chip and she was awful.

I loved Jane Summer and her seductive phone-sex voice.

Abby continues to rattle an increasingly unhinged Jill

Was Abby kind of indirectly responsible for pushing Jill over the edge in the same way she was indirectly responsible for getting Val's twins kidnapped?

That's an interesting take, R320. She was a genius at putting toxic thoughts in the heads of her rivals. Sometimes, Lotus Point, with all its surface glitz and hidden poisons, seemed like a metaphor for Abby--remember the season it was so contaminated with arsenic that Eric got sick?

Did you hear that?

I just shit!

Young Alec Baldwin at his hottest. Ted Shackelford who could fuck the hell out of me anytime he wanted to, even today..just fucking insane stories. Loved it.

R323... LillieMae shaming Joshua off the roof... it gets GREAT around 2:20 - Alec Baldwin at his hottest indeed, but it's Julie Harris' scene.

Linda Hartman's hair is tragic, but it was of the times.

R320- yes, 100%. Abby was the direct and indirect cause of Valene’s most awful moments. Direct- stealing her husband and blowing up her life. Indirect- Abby’s goons misunderstanding Abby and stealing the babies and years later, she goaded Jill into madness. It was rather genius and understated. And Val never knew.

I got the impression that if anyone was going to fuck with Val Abby thought it would be her. She was fucking with Jill because Jill was poaching.

Chip gets impaled.

Cathy screams.

Diana looks on blankly.

oh be kind R327, I think Claudia was going for inital shock and disbelief.

I'm surprised all we got was a muted yelp and then crying from Cathy... good thing Hartman married Clint Black; she never had to work again, gets to dabble in music as she wishes, and had to produce just one child.

Lisa Hartman loved showing up on the red carpet in the mid 80s in absurd getups that looked like something Bob Mackie threw away when designing Oscar dresses for Cher.

Lisa Hartman must have sucked a mean dick, because there is NO other explanation for her success.

Little Shithouse On The Prairir

r330 you mean ate a mean bush. Hartman is as lesbo her husband Clint Black is gay gay gay.

R332, that tale of Lisa being sapphic and Clint a legs-in-the-air gay have been arund for decades... is there anything to the rumors? It's the same with Trisha Yearwood and Garth Brooks... they're supposed to be gay.

I heard Clint was a practicing homo right when he hit the scene in Nashville when I was in college. Garth has ALWAYS pinged to high fucking heaven. The camera loves Trisha, at least when she was younger, even in her fattest of days. When in front of the camera she followed her stylists decisions to the 'T'. Out of the limelight she has the walk and grace of a big fat trucker.

I'm watching all these clips. Karen really doesn't blink.

r333 My friend (a woman) dated Lisa for three months.

Half of the cast visits dyketastic Ciji to threaten and beat the crap out of her.

Lilimae and Ciji duet, with Lilimae on the autoharp.

I never knew Knot's lasting legacy would be so vital to the DL in 2024.

[quote]I never knew Knot's lasting legacy would be so vital to the DL in 2024.

It checks off a lot of boxes for gay men of a certain age and demographic.

The main differences between KL and other nighttime soaps (and even when KL was at its soapiest) is that they had, by and large, excellent actors who stuck with the show for years and years. And for every fantastical plot line, they grounded it with real situations, relatable characters who were warm and caring towards each other and were bonded. Even Abby, who was the main villain, had a conscience. You felt like you could relate to these people, unlike on any other nighttime soap. Dallas and Dynasty were good for a gawk and a laugh and an hour of camp, but that's all they were.

I got the chance to work with Julie Harris on her last Broadway show and when I met her, I told her how much watching KL meant to me growing up because my own home life was so horrible, and these people felt like family to me once a week. (And I made sure to distinguish that I didn't ACTUALLY think they were family). And we talked about the acting on the show and it was a lovely conversation, and I was happy I got the chance to tell her what an oasis it was for me. And I suspect a lot of other kids/teens/gays who watched.

Where can I find a neon pair of lips or a duck for my apartment? Ciji was a style icon way ahead of her time! 💋 🦆

Yes, found it!!!

Lilimae croaking out Amazing Grace at Joshua's funeral. 06:20

R341, you really summed that up well. That’s how I feel about Knots Landing.

R338 - Ciji had such thick, muscular fingers and she sure knew how to work them.

I loved the scene when Lilimae comes by when Abby and Olivia are fighting over Olivia’s drug use. Abby breaks down and says, “Did you ever think you’d see the day when you felt sorry for me, Lilimae?”

Just a great moment.

Bumping this thread to let you Knots Fans know that Knots is now streaming . The episode that introduces Lilimae is on now. The previous episode was the one where Laura is hooking up with random guys.

I really disliked this show. Night time soaps should be glamorous and stylish- not a bunch of fraus making coffee in harvest gold kitchens.

On the Abby Scale, R348 is a -100.