Can we finally admit that “Black Swan” (2010) is a fucking masterpiece?

PS dancing controversy aside, Natalie Portman 100% deserved her Oscar. She delivered a fascinating and compelling performance.

I [bold]hated[/bold] this movie with a passion. I laughed through the last half. I may actually have walked out before the end. I hated it so much I don't even remember.

I paid to see it in the theater, and I have never been so disappointed in a movie.

Call me a philistine, call me whatever you want. IDGAF. But I will never, ever say this movie is a masterpiece.

I'll admit it's a fucking mess.

This moved me incredibly. I'll never forget the feeling I felt at the end...it's not often film does that to you.

It’s a rip-off of the Japanese anime, “Petfect Blue”. It’s frame by frame the same. “Perfect Blue” is iconic.

Zzzzz. It’s not a ripoff. Its an adaptation of it.

This " Black Swan" is a masterpiece. Danced by a troupe from Slovenia.

Hated it too. Loathe the director's work. LOATHE. He is no David Fincher!

Perfect casting of Winona Ryder as the aging ballerina; Natalie Portman as the up-and-coming ballerina.

I've always put those 2 in the same category, just different ages.

No we cannot. Darren Aronofsky is a creepy pervert who is afraid of women like QT.

The frantic over-acting is actually laugh-out-loud funny at times.

“Attack it! ATTACK it!”

“What happened to my sweet girl?” “SHE’S GONE!”

The blase Mila Kunis character was just lazy writing amplified by dull acting. As far as Barbara Hershey vehicles go, Black Swan barely even holds a candle to “With Six You Get Eggroll”.

The only standout in the whole affair is Winona Ryder’s cameo.

The acting actually works beautifully in this r11. Everything about the film is over the top. Understated acting would not go with the tone of this film. It needed to be hyper. The story is about mental illness but most don’t even realize that

Was Natalie Portman’s character an “up and coming” ballerina? Pretty sure she was already established and Mila Kunis was the new, younger up and comer who was threatening Natalie’s position.

R13, well, the Winona Ryder character was definitely over-the-hill whereas the Portman character was not over-the-hill. You're probably right. I have forgotten the plot.

“Most” don’t realize it’s about mental illness? Bitch actually believes she’s turning into a giant bird.

I think you need to start surrounding yourself with more people who aren’t headless.

R15 not r12 but when the movie came out and started getting awards attention many people went to see it (like they do during awards season) and complained it was confusing and made no sense. Many said it was a horror etc. and didn’t get “it”. The average person is a dumbass.

R5 it isn’t a ripoff. They are both adaptations of the 1875 ballet “Swan Lake”.

I wish more movies were over the top freakouts like this. Everyone wants everything to be realistic now unless it's a comic book movie.

Wasn’t this a ripoff of The Red Shoes?

God, was that movie awful!

This movie was brilliant and one of my favorites of that year. It was fascinating to watch.

R19 no. It was a contemporary remake.

I did not care for Natalie Portman in her role as the swan.

Sandy B. in The Blind Side was a more deserving best actress win.

I LOVED it the first time. IMO, it's a very good, but not great rewatch. The mood and performances are still enjoyable, but knowing how it all adds up and plays out takes a little air out of it. I know, you could say that knowing what happens deflates every movie. Yet that's not always the case.

[quote] it isn’t a ripoff. They are both adaptations of the 1875 ballet “Swan Lake”.

“Perfect Blue” is not ballet. It has nothing to do with Swan Lake. It’s about stardom and mental illness.

Aronofsky and others continue to rip-off “Perfect Blue”. It has so many iconic scenes.

R25 keep telling yourself that.

Aronofsky admitted to being inspired by “Pefect Blue” but I will bet you Sadayuki Murai, Yoshikazu Takeuchi, and Satoshi Kon’s estate ever got a dime from him. This is like when Disney waited for Osamu Tezuka to kick the bucket to rip-off the anime “Kimba the White Lion” to make “The Lion King”.

R26, I don’t have to tell myself anything. Critics have already stated this. It’s a well-documented fact.

And.

He ripped off “Perfect Blue for “Requiem for a Dream” too.

This movie has Natalie Portman, Winona Ryder, Mila Kunis and Barbara Hershey camping it up to high heaven, plus a cameo from Sebastian Stan on Molly, and you people are bitching about Perfect Blue?

Priorities, people!

Did you suck his cock?

R27 where did he say this?

R30 ZZZZZZ

Isnt this the movie where a male character says Portman’s not hot. Then, at the Academy Awards, Portman has to set the record straight, saying it was an acting feat to say she was not hot.

I find Portman deeply annoying. She seems to always have a thought bubble that says, “AREN’T I SO CUTE?! TELL ME HOW CUTE I AM!”

R36 I don’t get that vibe from her at all. She seems genuine and shy.

Perfect Blue is a fucking awesome movie.

Black Swan is a fucking awesome movie.

I hate these stupid posts that start with “Can we…do this or that”. It’s so millennial.

I think Natalie Portman is contractually obligated to cry in every movie.

I love Mila Klunis in this movie. And Vincent Cassel is the right mixture of sexy, sleazy and scumbag. There are some really disturbing moments involving Hershey (did she have a sexual relationship with her own daughter) but Portman does excellent work and did deserve the Oscar.

it

was

shiteous

Can we finally admit that OP is a hyperbolic blowhard lowbrow movie critic, graduate of the Sheboygan Conservatory of purple prose?

I love the use of body horror in Black Swan. The physical transformation complements Portman's deteriorating mental state very effectively--I'm thinking specifically of that one scene where she pulls off her whole cuticle.

I wish Portman was more transparent about how much of her dancing was actually included in the film VS her body double, but whatever.

Was it not supposed to be campy? I enjoyed it in the same way I enjoy Mommie Dearest and Showgirls, although it's not quite as memorable as those films.

I saw it in theaters and have never had a desire to see it again. It was tedious.

I heard the story was stolen from the anime movie perfect blue. Is that true?

R48 you heard that from yourself. We know.

Has there ever been a film about dance, any kind of dance, that wasn't deep up it's own "Dance" ass or yet another ridiculous musical? I hate both types.

Yes, R50 -- it's called The Turning Point.

Watch and learn.

Thanks for the suggestion, R2/R51, I'll take it in r earnest and try watching it.

I did see The Turning Point, but ages ago when it premiered and I was starting college. No doubt my perspective has changed. I don't live it, didn't hate it at the time and remember two impressions: that it started my dislike for Shirley MacLaine and that it seemed a bit of an impossible task to convey the physicality of dance seen in a dark theatre (not cinema) -- the way films about painters always get things wrong about creativity and torment and other clichés

But I've been wrong before, and will give it a go.

IMO, it was high-class camp. A more subtle form of Showgirls.

R48 In Perfect Blue a minor popstar tries to break into TV. An overbearing manager, a terrorizing stalker, and the exploitative industry cause her to lose her grip on reality. Black Swan is definitely inspired by it - but Darren Aronofsky previously bought rights to Perfect Blue because he wanted the bathtub scene in Requiem For A Dream to be a shot for shot copy of the same scene in Perfect Blue. It also involves a final sequence where the main character fights and chases a hallucination of herself. The outcomes and premises are different but he took a lot from it. It's a much better film than Black Swan.

I'm still stumped on how Aronofsky got so many actresses to sleep with him.

I hate to spoil your party, OP—but I have to concur with ElderLez at R2. It was not a great movie. You may call me a philistine, too, if you wish.

Senior Lesbian at R2. Sorry.

No problem, H&H.

[...]

[...]

R60 - Danny Masterson commenting before lights out

Natalie Portman has one amazing performance under her belt.

When she was 12.

I just watched it for the very first time.

I wanted to like it, but I was very underwhelmed.

Mila Kunis's nomination was a fucking JOKE. I would have given that to Barbara Hershey-

Other than that it is a very solid film. I loved Winona too. A very well cast film.

I was lucky enough to see it in IMAX. It's a good movie.

I loved the movie and have seen it many times. But everytime I think of it ( like now ). I am craving the beautiful birthday cake.

The OP's boilerplate dramatic clickbait typing (so called writing), mirrors the filmmaking of Black Swan.

R66- Were you a little fat boy??

SAME HERE!!

Whenever that movie s brought up, I think of that cake. Fucking weird!! I almost mentioned that and was like I will be laughed out of here. (Its no worse than the other shit I come up with)

This has one of those movie ballet companies where the male dancers are straight.

Oh please. There are straight dancers at Béjart Ballet, a company I know well.

It had all the right elements, but it just didn't work for me.

Natalie Portman wasn't believable to me as a prima ballerina.

Mika Kunis was robbed of an Oscar nomination.

[quote]Can we finally admit that “Black Swan” (2010) is a fucking masterpiece?

Why the rush? Is your chronic bad taste finally getting ready to kill you?

Barbara Hershey was my favorite part of it. I was wowed by it when I saw it at the time, but as someone else noted, I don’t think it makes for a great rewatch, and as I’ve gotten a bit older, it doesn’t hit me the same. I think it’s a good movie, but I don’t know that I’d call it a masterpiece.

R73- WHAT? I. thought that she was nominated--

I typed this above--

Mila Kunis's nomination was a fucking JOKE. I would have given that to Barbara Hershey-

Other than that it is a very solid film. I loved Winona too. A very well cast film.

I thought that she was nominated- all of the acclaim of her- was -a joke--

What about her performance did you like?

I didn't like it overall. Natalie was so whiny throughout the film. The lesbian sex scene was so unnecessary as well. One thing that I did love and remained with me long after after watching the movie was that dance sequence towards the final portion of the film where Nina's hands transform into black featherd wings. That was BEAUTIFULLY done. Both the choreography that leads to it and the CGI graphics. I love the surrealist visual aspect of the film. But if you take away those visuals, it's as bland as the breakfast that Natalie eats in that film.

I think the breakfast is an allusion to Requiem for a Dream.

Oops! I meant to say arms, not hands -_-

When they through that beautiful birthday cake in the trash, it was one of the most horrifying sights I've ever seen. I still have nightmares.

Fun fact: In interviews when the movie was released, both Portman and Kunis spoke about how they've been close friends since childhood. They used to go on auditions together.

I wonder if they ever conceived they'd be costarring in a film performing a lesbian scene.

Finally? Wasnt it always considered a masterpiece? Wtf?

I love this movie. I’m glad I saw it in the theatre.

I need someone to note scenes where Mila gave an Oscar level performance-

[quote] ballet companies where the male dancers are straight

My company had straight, male dancers.

Name em! Name em!

Name em!!

(the Mila Kunis shit back when this premiered struck me as some agent/press manipulation-or was Weinstein the producer?) It made no sense then, and less now- upon review)

Her performance was as average as average could be. There was not ONE great scene.

So name em!

R64 Yes I was a fat little boy!!! So glad to not feel so alone at the thought of that cake - thanks for posting . The frosting seemed so luscious and real…. I can’t explain it…. And when the delusional bitch mother almost throws it out .

R87!

I knew it! They made that cake look so fucking pretty!!! I am still obsessed with cake and that cake looked so darn good. Wasn't it strawberry? One of my last birthday cakes as a kid was a strawberry cake with Cream cheese frosting. I was a miniature Jabba The Hut/Porky Pig Jr Combo.

Who throws out a cake that delicious AND pretty?

Love cake.

Hate Mila.

LOVE Barbara H.

R2 You are a Philistine. Happy now?

R89 I am with you- I never laughed/mocked at this film. Subconsciously I knew that it had campy elements (Probably Hershey and Ryder) and as much as I loved Portman (and felt Kunis was fine, but supremely overrated in this) I really loved (and felt for) Hershey and Ryder the most.

And time has proven, the film was different and special- it had some mild(very) similarities to Suspiria, and oddly enough, the Suspiria remake stole from Black Swan!

Its a cool film

R7 Thank you for that link. Yes, the Black Swan dance vid in that abandoned mall was fucking gorgeous.

Never made the effort to see the Natalie Portman film, though.

If it is ever generally released in the US, I highly recommend the film "CRANKO". You could say it's a somewhat filmified bio pic of the famous gay ballet choreographer, John Cranko. The main actor is not a dancer, but all the dancers in the film ARE dancers. They also have speaking roles, so you could say that they are actors as well They are leads in the Stuttgart Ballet, which was also the ballet company that Cranko worked with. So it's very unique in that there are no body doubles, or film gaps while the distance shots are filmed with the doubles.

I saw it at the Palm Springs Film Festival this January. It was filmed in Germany, but the lead actor is British, and he speaks English quite a bit. Of course, it will be subtitled if released in the US.

Overrated movie.

Postman’s acting was pretty poor and not a patch on Catherine Denice in Repulsion. Very cloying. Very twee. Radiating “please look after me” to the audience.

With John Epperson as the rehearsal pianist.

Say again, r94?

I'm just not FINALLY ready to admit that "Black Swan" (2010) is a FUCKING masterpiece!

Lot of masturbating in this film, with Portman furiously flicking her bean.

Because of this movie, there was actually 5 minutes when people thought Mila Kunis could act.

It passed quickly.

Mila Kunis could play Dyan Cannon in a biopic

Milan in this was because of Weinstein, I don't know, know that, but he used her name and as bait, that X could be the next Mila, and although Miramax wasn't involved, Sweinstein was.

I don't think she casting couched him as her career didn't exactly take off, but who knows. He'd use her name to other girls like she was the star to be.

^Mila

If people think the convoluted mess, Mulholland Drive, is a masterpiece, I don't see why others can't find this one near that level.

Natalie Portman was beautiful almost beyond belief. She made it hard to concentrate on the movie at times and played a perfect ballerina and I prefer not to delve too deep as she was enough.

[quote]R13 Was Natalie Portman’s character an “up and coming” ballerina? Pretty sure she was already established

Nina’s established in that she has a contract with a ballet company, but she’s just a member of the corps de ballet- she dances as part of the background group and is not a soloist or prima ballerina.

(It’s like being in the chorus of a Broadway musical.)

R94 She was repressed, infantalized and schizophrenic. Dumbass.

[quote] If people think the convoluted mess, Mulholland Drive, is a masterpiece, I don't see why others can't find this one near that level.

In my case because imposter Black Swan isn’t anywhere near the level of Mulholland Drive, the greatest film of the current century, by point of fact.

[quote]If people think the convoluted mess, Mulholland Drive, is a masterpiece, I don't see why others can't find this one near that level.

I happen to think MD is a masterpiece and BS is ho-hum.

MD had a resonant surrealism that BS didn't come close to. Naomi Watts gave a much better performance than Natalie Portman. Laura Elena Harring has a screen presence far beyond the capacity of Mila Kunis. I found MD deeply unsettling and thought about it for weeks afterward. It is visually stunning. There is no one particular moment I remember from BS that made me think, "Wow," with the possible exception of one of the final dances.

They are simply films in two different leagues.

[quote]Postman’s acting was pretty poor and not a patch on Catherine Denice in Repulsion.

R94 Deneuve, wasn’t it, in Repulsion? Incredible movie.

[quote]Natalie Portman was beautiful almost beyond belief.

MARY!!!

Natalie’s performance reminds me of my niece’s first dance recital. She and the other girls were on stage dancing and every few minutes they would look offstage, where their dance teacher was standing behind the curtain. She would instruct them and prompt them for their next move. It was cute because they were little girls. Not so much with Natalie. It seemed like she was being coached behind the scenes and her acting seemed artificial.

R88:

Right!!! Strawberry . I forgot. Generally this Jabba is dedicated to chocolate - and strawberry is just meh …. But in this context, the strawberry frosting and delicate flowers ( or were they strawberries ??) looked so goood….mmmm .. let’s dive in a strawberry cake together

It was certainly an instant DL classic, like Showgirls. I remember reading the original threads on it with fascination.

I loved this film. Saw it with my sisters

It’s no mulholland drive but I like it a lot

Someone here who thinks Mila was Oscar worthy needs to explain why. I think critics felt the same way and I need to go check out some old reviews. I love this film. The praise heaped on her was utterly laughable.. Likely agent related.

BLACK SWAN was superbly crafted. It was an immediate classic that received great reviews.

r117 = Darren Aronofsky

I'm not familiar with this movie? Is it about a colored flock of geese ?

Yes. But with songs.

Mila was simply okay. She was lucky to give an average performance in a great movie

R119 Just one, is black, the rest white; it's a moving testament to the struggle for integration within the aviary world.